Summary
The FBI questions Capitol riot suspect about connections to extremist groups and Congress. A new book by "The Wall Street Journal`s" Michael Bender reveals the cynical nature of Donald Trump`s outreach to Black voters. An audit spokesman says there are an estimated 60 Braille ballots left to count and the auditors are in the process of finding Braille reading staff to count them. West Virginia passed a new anti- transgender law earlier this year banning trans athletes from participating on female sports teams in middle schools, high schools, and at colleges. Schools and offices across the country are closed for the newest federal holiday, Juneteenth.
Transcript
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Because joy is also an act of resistance celebrated boldly and in defiance of every attempt to take it away. So, you go be with your loved ones and celebrate and you have yourself a happy and very well deserved Juneteenth.
That is tonight`s REIDOUT. "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZERLINA MAXWELL, MSNBC HOST (voice over): Tonight on ALL IN.
MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to thank my friend Ralph Reed for those overly generous words. I`m deeply humbled by them.
MAXWELL: Mike Pence heckled by his own party faithful as new video emerges of the violence at the Capitol on January 6. And the FBI starts questioning insurrectionists about their connections with members of Congress.
Then, as the bogus Arizona audit starts to wrap up, the Republican fight against voting rights expands across the country.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I`m taking a look at all these new state laws. None of them are designed to suppress the vote.
MAXWELL: Beto O`Rourke is rallying for voters in Texas and he joins me live tonight. Plus --
REP. RALPH NORMANT (R-SC): How many policies do we want? What`s the magic number? This will put it to 11. Do we want 20?
MAXWELL: Barely a day old and the attacks against the Juneteenth federal holiday have already begun when ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAXWELL (on camera): Good evening from Washington D.C. I`m Zerlina. Maxwell in for Chris Hayes. There is breaking news tonight out of the district court in Washington D.C. We now know that at least one suspect in the January 6 riot is being questioned by the FBI about potential ties to any right-wing extremist groups or members of Congress.
NBC News has obtained a transcript of the interview the FBI conducted back in February with a former NYPD officer named Thomas Webster. He`s facing multiple charges in connection with his actions of the Capitol that day. And take a look at this line of questioning. "Have you heard or seen anything in the area about any of the militia groups that have been on the news like the Proud Boys, the Three Percenters, the Oath Keepers? Do you have any connections to anybody in Congress, or any Congressional staff or any Capitol Police? The reporter who obtained that transcript will join me shortly.
But first, one of the most frightening aspects of what happened at the Capitol on January 6 is that the mob not only stormed the building and attacked any officers who got in their way, but they were actually coming for our elected leaders. They tore through the Capitol looking for specific members of Congress. Some rioters broke into Speaker Nancy Pelosi his office. This image here shows a man putting his feet up on the desk of one of Pelosi`s aides.
But they are not only coming in the Capitol for Democrats. The mob was also looking for Donald Trump`s own vice president. They chanted hang Mike Pence, because he would not go along with Trump`s plan to steal the election. Remember, Vice President Pence had to be whisked away by Secret Service to a secure location when rioters got dangerously close to the Senate floor. That`s where he was presiding over the electoral vote count.
And it seems like some members of the party of Trump are still kind of angry with Mike Pence calling him a traitor when he took the stage at the Faith and Freedom Summit in Florida today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PENCE: I want to thank my friend Ralph Reed for those overly generous words. I`m deeply humbled by them.
AMERICAN CROWD: Traitor! Traitor! Traitor!
PENCE: And Ralph Reed knows me well enough to know the introduction I prefer is a little bit shorter. I`m a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order. And I am honored to stand before you today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAXWELL: More than five months since that awful day and it is still not over. More video evidence of the horror that happened is still coming out. Today, The Justice Department released new video at the request of NBC News and other news organization showing a Trump supporter named Scott Fairlamb torrenting and then assaulting an officer outside of the Capitol.
You see him here in the camouflage jacket. A warning that this footage is extremely disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you an American?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take it easy, man. Take it easy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, they weren`t for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAXWELL: Scott Fairlamb has been charged with 12 criminal counts including assaulting an officer and carrying a dangerous weapon in the Capitol. And there is another new video also released by the government at the request of news organizations. This one showing that same former NYPD officer who was questioned by the FBI about his ties to extremist groups or Congress brawling with cops on January 6. He`s the man in the red jacket. And again, this video is disturbing to watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, take it off. Take it off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAXWELL: So, as the evidence continues to come out, day after day, and the big lie reigns supreme in the Republican Party, the threat of the insurrection continues and is still out there and it is not going away.
I want to begin tonight with the breaking news that the FBI has been questioning at least one of the people charged in the Capitol Riot about his possible connections to members of Congress. The investigative reporter who got his hands on that transcript is Scott MacFarlane of NBC News 4 in Washington and he joins me now. Scott, what have you found?
SCOTT MACFARLANE, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, NBC NEWS 4 WASHINGTON: Hey, Zerlina, good evening. Let`s start with that latest video. And those videos are tough to watch and tough to listen to as well. The audio, so guttural, so visceral. The Fed say the most recent video shows Thomas Webster of New York, a retired NYPD officer and a former U.S. Marine. So, they`re showing in this video, they say, a police officer attacking another police officer.
He`s pleaded not guilty, but he is jailed pending trial. But we`ve got a copy of the FBI interview with Thomas Webster, 61 pages, and a few things stand out. You mentioned a few of the top lines. He was questioned about any potential ties to the Oath Keepers, the Three Percenters, or the Proud Boys, the far-right groups that are at the epicenter of this sprawling January s 6 investigation.
But he was also questioned about whether he knew any members of Congress, any congressional staff, or any Capitol Police. To all those questions, he said no. But a former federal prosecutor here in D.C. says that is indicative of an investigation into possible, possible complicity by members of Congress. The former federal prosecutor causes a very significant set of questions by the FBI, Zerlina. The answer to all of them from this defendant is no, but it`s hard to believe they weren`t asking this of other defendants as well.
MAXWELL: Well, that`s actually my next question. Is this something the FBI is just asking Mr. Webster or does it seem like this is a standard line of questioning that they utilize for anyone that they`re questioning who was involved in January 6?
MACFARLANE: Without any equivocation, Zerlina, the focal point, the most serious charges in this investigation are against the Oath Keepers, the Three Percenters, and the Proud Boys. They`re accused of conspiracy of plotting and planning ahead of January 6, of having, in some cases, encrypted communications, having radio devices, military gear. No surprise at all they`d be asking defendants if they have any knowledge of or links to those far-right groups. Those are the most serious charges.
Now, about members of Congress. There`s obviously a lot of talk about what did members of Congress know. It seems intuitive to ask questions about it. It`s noteworthy this defendant said no, but we don`t know yet what the other defendants have been asked. We haven`t yet seen their transcripts, Zerlina.
MAXWELL: The FBI also was asking about members of Congress and Congressional staff. Obviously, there has been reporting about some members of Congressional staff potentially taking eventual rioters on tours. What do we know about the questions that are being posed to these folks about ties to members of Congress? Is that something that`s coming up a lot? Is it just for Mr. Webster?
MACFARLANE: So far, just for Mr. Webster, in part, because that`s the only transcript we`ve seen and his answer was no. But the former federal prosecutor here in D.C. says it`s likely the feds have phone records for a number of these defendants. So, if there were calls, anybody who`s under that umbrella of suspicion, the Feds may know it already. So, getting the question on the records important just to check the veracity of defendants.
So, again, it would be no surprise if we saw that question asked of other defendants but we do know it was asked to this defendant, Thomas Webster of Orange County, New York.
MAXWELL: The other question is ties to Capitol Police officers. Is that something that`s also being included in standard questioning for folks, or was that specific to Mr. Webster? That seems interesting considering he is an NYPD -- a former NYPD officer himself.
MACFARLANE: Yes, there`s that parallel. He`s a former police officer. What`s more, Zerlina, he`s a former city hall-based police officer during the Rudy Giuliani administration in New York City, and sometime before in some time after former Mayor Giuliani. There is that question. You`re a former police, what can you tell us about police. But something else jumped out in this record. They asked him about what they say is shown in that video, him striking an officer. And he says the officer appeared to instigate it that day, pushing blame back at the police officer.
He`s accused of attacking with a flagpole, with his fists, and then toppling him over. It`s a striking defense. We`ll see what happens when he appears in court next week to try to secure his release from jail.
MAXWELL: Well, we will stay glued to your excellent reporting. Scott MacFarlane, thank you so much for being here. It`s really terrific reporting. Please stay safe.
For more on the ongoing extremist threat in the wake of the Capitol attack, I`m joined now by Cynthia Miller-Idriss, director of the Polarization and Extremism Research Innovation Lab at American University and the author of Hate in the Homeland: The New Global Far Right. And she joins me now.
Cynthia, do you think that the insurrection is still happening? Is this an ongoing threat in your view?
CYNTHIA MILLER-IDRISS, DIRECTOR, POLARIZATION AND EXTREMISM RESEARCH INNOVATION LAB AT AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: I think we definitely have an ongoing threat in the country and even globally. I mean, I wouldn`t -- you know, I don`t know why I would call this particular insurrection continuing beyond that event, but certainly, the anti-government sentiment, the anti- democratic sentiment, the vulnerability to disinformation to propaganda is still there.
So, I think it`s a mistake to think of this as the end of something or as the culmination of something but rather something, you know, on an arc. And we don`t quite know yet what the future holds, but we -- I think it`s very clear that the threat is still strong and still out there.
MAXWELL: Are we prepared for this threat or another attack?
IDRISS: I think that that`s really the question of the hour. I think that that we`re much more prepared now than we were six months ago as a country. I think there is better awareness among law enforcement. There`s certainly better awareness among the administration, among the security agencies about the nature of the threat.
We have a new national security plan that was issued this week by the Biden administration that really lays out a plan to tackle this in four pillars that is going to change the trajectory of how the country has dealt with domestic violent extremism. So, we`re certainly better equipped than we were six months ago, but I wouldn`t say that we`re on top of the threat yet.
MAXWELL: And one of the threats that I think is a little bit different than the capitol attack, which is individual politicians and their personal safety, the Trump folks they`re really mad at Mike Pence. They`re still angry at Mike Pence, and so, you see them yelling traitor. And I feel like individual politicians who are the targets of this anger, are they in danger? How do we defuse the threat posed by those who believe in and keep repeating the big lie about the election being stolen when it wasn`t?
IDRISS: I think what you saw today is that it`s very difficult to put the genie back in the bottle once that`s been released. And we have been seeing globally the assassination of a pro-migrant politician in Germany last year, the assassination in the U.K. of a politician who was pro-migrant, the threats, the plots that were foiled against the Michigan and Virginia Governor`s. So, we`ve already been seeing this trajectory of threats against elected officials. And I think this is very consistent with that -- with that rising anti-government, anti-establishment kind of threat in addition to the persistent white supremacist extremist threat that we had been seeing for many years.
MAXWELL: You just wrote an essay for the Atlantic, arguing that extremism has spread into the mainstream and needs to be treated like a public health issue. I remember all the way back to 2016, Hillary Clinton at the hiring of Steve Bannon, talked about the emboldening of white nationalists and extremist elements within the right. What`s the best way to fight against this?
IDRISS: I think it has to start with the very first step which is recognizing that this isn`t a problem that can only be dealt with through a law enforcement and security lens, that that is always a bandaid solution. That that by seeing this as the problem of defined friend groups, we really miss the vulnerabilities in the mainstream to propaganda, to disinformation, to online manipulation.
So, we really need a deeper public health type approach that invests in communities that helps people understand what online manipulation looks like, what persuasive extremist tactics like scapegoating or fear-mongering look like. And so, then they build their own counterarguments to that and are able to resist it. So, it`s equipping the mainstream with resilience rather than just focusing on risk and security.
MAXWELL: So, we`re in a new administration, and they have a different approach to extremists. So, let`s take a look at what the Biden administration has said about this threat of domestic extremists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We are very focused on domestic violent extremism. It is the greatest threat -- terrorist-related threat that we face in our homeland. We are very focused on it.
I will highlight the work our department is undertaking to combat the most significant and immediate terrorism-related threat to our homeland, which is the threat posed by domestic violent extremism.
I consider it and I think we consider it collectively the most significant terrorism-related threat impacting the homeland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAXWELL: We`re almost out of time. And you`ve said the FBI is better prepared than they were six months ago, but are they doing enough to combat future threats?
IDRISS: I think that they`re not doing enough as an administration to the extent that we`re not broadening this -- the equipping beyond the law enforcement and security. So, we really need to see Department of Education, Health and Human Services, mental health counselors, teachers, parents, communities be equipped in addition to law enforcement and security and intelligence agents if we`re going to interrupt the threat in a way that makes a real difference in the long term.
MAXWELL: The long term is always on my mind. Professor Cynthia Miller- Idriss, thank you so much for being here and helping us understand this ongoing threat. Please stay safe.
Remember how much Donald Trump tried to con Black people into voting for him?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I`ve done more for the black community than any president since Abraham Lincoln. I say it. Nobody can dispute it. Nobody can dispute it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAXWELL: It was just patently ridiculous at the time. And now, a new book reveals exactly what Trump really thought about Black voters. As the Republican Party redoubles their efforts to squash the vote, Beto O`Rourke is launching a counteroffensive to that. And he joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, what do you have to lose? You`re living in poverty. Your schools are no good. You have no jobs. 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose? And at the end of four years, I guarantee you that I will get over 95 percent of the African American vote. I promise you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAXWELL: Donald Trump at least pretended to court Black voters when he was running for president in 2016. But a new book by the Wall Street Journal`s Michael Bender reveals the cynical nature of Donald Trump`s outreach to Black voters. I`ve done all this stuff for the Blacks. He said, the Blacks, that`s a quote. It`s always Jared telling me to do this, Trump said to one confidant on Father`s Day, and they all effing hate me. And none of them are going to vote for me.
And they didn`t vote for him in 2016 or in 2020. But that might not have something to do -- that might have something to do with the fact that Republicans are always trying to suppress Black and LatinX votes including in places like Texas where last month democrats walked off the House floor to block passage of the voter suppression bill.
Former Congressman Beto O`Rourke is the founder of Powered By People, a major grassroots organization in Texas mobilizing Democratic voters. They`re holding a voting rights rally in Austin this Sunday at the steppes of the Texas Capitol. And he joins me now. Thank you so much for being here tonight.
BETO O`ROURKE, FOUNDER, POWERED BY PEOPLE: Hey, Zerlina. It`s great to be with you. And thank you for mentioning that democracy and voting rights rally at the Texas Capitol this Sunday at 5:30. This is a great opportunity for Texans to stand up and be counted, and try to stop that voter suppression that you were just telling your viewers about that is raging across this country and nowhere more so than in Texas, where you have the worst levels of voter suppression in the country.
You have 750 polling place closures, for example, over the last eight years, a voter ID law that particularly targets minorities in this state, and a gerrymander of our state that was described as a racial gerrymander by a three-judge on a federal panel. On top of that, they want to end souls to the polls or Sunday morning voting. They want to make those with disabilities disclose their personal private medical information in order to vote early. And then, most alarmingly, Texas wants to reserve the right to overturn future elections simply based on the allegation of fraud.
So, this is ground zero in this fight. And that`s why we want so many folks to come out and join us and make sure that our state lawmakers and then those Senate Democrats in the U.S. Capitol hear us loud and clear and pass voting rights legislation like the For the People Act. It could not be more important. And this is a state that understands that best.
MAXWELL: You know, Texas was already one of the hardest places to cast a ballot and you just laid out there are so many aspects of this new piece of legislation that will make it even more difficult. In terms of the organizer -- organizing you`re doing on the ground, what do you hope to gain out of the protest on Sunday? And what message are you trying to send to those in power about lacking access to a new demographic of folks?
O`ROURKE: Yes, that pressure that people can bring to bear is really powerful. We`ve already seen surliness, some of the state Republican lawmakers who voted for S.B.7. That was the elections or voter suppression bill in the regular session, disavow provisions of it. They`ve said they didn`t mean to cancel Sunday morning voting and they didn`t know that what they voted for would have allowed them to overturn elections.
And I don`t think it`s because they suddenly got religion on this issue. I think it`s because they`re hearing from their constituents, Republicans and Democrats alike who are outraged that they would be stopped from voting through this, as Jim Hightower calls it, a theft of our election.
So, if we show up in numbers large enough, not only can we stop the next attempt to do this in a special session in Texas, but I hope that we can give President Biden and those Senate Democrats some encouragement to get the job done on For the People Act, because much as Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965 needed to be able to pass the Voting Rights Act of that year to create a true multiracial democracy in America, and did so in large part because he was pressured to do so by civil rights and voting rights leaders across the country. He in fact began his speech to Congress that year by referencing John Lewis` march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge.
We need to get out there in person and in public, no more tweeting, and Facebook, and calling folks. We got to show up and demonstrate. And I think that`s what moves things in this country. At least that`s what it`s done. That`s what`s done the job historically.
So, yeah, I think it can work, certainly. And the alternative is to sit at home and despair. And that won`t lead to anything good.
MAXWELL: Generally, organizers aren`t very cynical, they`re optimists, and they`re like, OK, we`re going to get to work. That`s how they -- that`s how they roll. Texas is one of the states in America that has seen very dramatic demographic shifts. And those are related to the voter suppression bills. They`re directly linked because America will be minority white electorate by 2045 according to Pew Research.
Do you think this new wave of voter suppression bills is essentially Republicans admitting that these demographic shifts are not in their favor, and so they want to block the ballot box for those who are less likely to vote for Republicans?
O`ROURKE: You hit the nail on the head. That`s exactly what`s happening in Texas. So, I mentioned racial gerrymander of our state. What that means is that there`s a good chance if you`re black or brown in Texas, you`ve been moved out of a given congressional district to diminish the impact or power of your vote, or the likelihood that you would vote at all. And so much of S.B.7, the elections bill that was debated recently in Texas is targeted at Harris County, Houston, Texas, which, Zerlina, is the most diverse city in the United States of America.
It is those voters that they`re trying to stop from casting that ballot and having their voices heard. And so, we`ve got to overcome that. And we got to overcome that by stopping these bills by pushing voting rights legislation. And then in Texas, there are two million eligible but unregistered voters. So, I`m asking my fellow Texans to get certified as volunteer deputy registrar`s or VDRs which allows you to register eligible voters in your county. If we bring those two million onto the rolls, then even if the system remains rigged and the deck stacked, we`ll still by the numbers have a chance to win elections.
So, that`s our insurance policy. But first step is stop the suppression and pass voting rights legislation like the For the People Act before the U.S. Senate right now.
MAXWELL: Beto O`Rourke, thank you so much for taking the time out on this Friday night. Please stay safe.
Coming up, the final days of the month-long effort to muddy the presidential election in Arizona. What we know and still don`t know about the people behind it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MAXWELL: The fraudulent audit of Arizona ballots from the 2020 presidential election has been going on for nearly two months and is supposedly nearing its conclusion.
An audit spokesman says there are an estimated 60 Braille ballots left to count and the auditors are in the process of finding Braille reading staff to count them.
But even two months in, there is still a lot we do not know about the people running this scam. Even as Republicans across the country are making trips to Arizona trying to import their own sketchy audits back home.
Adrian Fontes is the former Maricopa County Recorder which helps organize elections in the county. He will be a 2022 candidate for Arizona Secretary of State and he joins me now.
Adrian, a new report seems to imply that Doug Logan, the CEO of Cyber Ninjas is just the only ninja. There`s one ninja, he`s the -- he`s the only one Doug. On recent calls to the company`s automated answer line, pressing three for sales led to the answering message for Logan. So, did pressing four for human resources and pressing five for purchasing and six for the general mailbox at all went to Doug? He`s just -- there`s just one ninja.
At this point, how do we avoid this circus popping up in battleground states across the country?
ADRIAN FONTES, FORMER MARICOPA COUNTY RECORDER: Well, first of all, it`s good to see you again. Thanks for having me.
And I don`t know how we avoid it other than making sure that we get as many people registered and as many people voting across the country for candidates who are not going to buy into this nonsense, for candidates who are not going to be consumed by the sadness of one sore loser. Candidates and elected officials who are going to believe in truth, going to believe in their fellow Americans, Republicans, Democrats, independents alike, who are actually the ones who run these elections in the first place. And just not get mixed up in all of this, you know, snake oil sales and folks like this Mr. Logan, and whoever else was promoting this nonsense.
We need solid people with integrity and with honor, with experience running our elections. And we`ve got to make sure that Americans are well educated about these systems as well.
We`ve got a tough road ahead of us, fighting against ignorance has never been easy.
MAXWELL: So, how do you fight against the ignorance that obviously is spreading? Because what`s happening in Arizona with the Cyber Ninja, it`s now being exported to other states. You had officials from Pennsylvania, in Georgia, they`re trying to manufacture something similar. Do you have advice for any of the election officials in those states for how to avoid a circus like we`ve seen in Maricopa County?
FONTES: Well, I think the most important thing to do is speak the truth, speak it loudly and don`t be ashamed. Don`t be afraid to call out the traitors who performed an armed insurgency against the Constitution of the United States on January 6th. Don`t be afraid to call out the lie for what it is, a lie. Don`t be afraid to talk about the great work that you and your folks across the United States of America have done.
Elections officials across our entire country have suffered incredible work hours, threats in many cases as the Brennan Center and Bipartisan Policy Center put out their report this past week.
There`s all kinds of things that election administrators like myself have suffered recently and it doesn`t matter what party you`re in. We`ve got to stand together, reasonable people of all political stripes against this rising Neo-fascism, this rising authoritarianism that will not believe in the truth unless it comes from the mouth of one person and that`s wrong.
It is anti-American and we`ve got to call it out for what it is. We must be strong enough to advocate and to protect our democracy.
MAXWELL: One of the things that`s scariest about these voter suppression bills is not just blocking access to the voter on the front end, but the change in policies on the back end after the election. You recently announced that you`re running for Secretary of State.
In your view, how critically important is that role in maintaining the integrity of our Democratic process in the context of some of these bills, including items that strip away the power of these positions?
FONTES: Look, the Office of Secretary of State is no more important than the Office of County Recorder, no more important than the election director who may be appointed by boards of supervisors or county commissioners across the United States of America, every little lever.
Every lever of this entire machine works together. We work together with Secretary Hobbs. And we`ve worked together with other folks across Arizona and across the United States of America.
We all have important jobs to do. Now, secretaries of state are that much more important because this stuff is in the headlines. And it`s in the headlines, because starting in 2016 and a little bit before, misinformation and disinformation campaigns arranged for and promoted by our foreign enemies were then adopted by some of our own folks right here in the United States of America.
And the fight against that, the information that is good, the trusted information that comes from elections officials across the United States of America, that`s what we need to promote, that`s what we need to push.
And the secretaries of state across the United States, which have a varying degree of involvement in either administering or regulating elections depending on what state it is. These are the bully pulpits from which this solid information must come.
MAXWELL: Adrian Fontes, it was great to see you. Thank you so much for being here tonight. Please stay safe.
Coming up, how an 11-year-old kid is fighting back against West Virginia`s anti-trans law and how the Biden administration is helping her out. That`s up next.
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MAXWELL: West Virginia passed a new anti-transgender law earlier this year banning trans athletes from participating on female sports teams in middle schools, high schools and at colleges.
And not long after that bill became law, my colleague Stephanie Ruhle pressed West Virginia Governor Jim Justice, asking him to provide any example of this being an actual issue in his state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Can you give me one example of a transgender child trying to get an unfair advantage? Just one in your state. You signed a bill about it.
GOV. JIM JUSTICE (R), WEST VIRGINIA: No, I can`t really tell you one. I think we only have 12 kids maybe in our state better that are transgender type kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAXWELL: Well, at least one of the transgender kids in West Virginia is now actively trying to get accountability because she`s being negatively affected by that law. 11-year-old Becky Pepper-Jackson wants to run cross- country. I ran cross-country in high school and track at her middle school but she`s being prohibited from trying out for the girl`s teams.
Her mother has brought a case against the state on her behalf and now, the Biden administration is stepping up and joining Becky`s fight.
Yesterday, the Department of Justice filed a statement of interest in the case slamming the ban as a violation of federal law.
Democratic Congressman Marie Newman of Illinois is an advocate for LGBTQ- plus rights and on behalf of her transgender daughter Evie and she joins me now.
Congresswoman, you and your daughter are on the cover of Teen Vogue for Pride Month. And there`s a beautiful moment in the piece where you talk about when Evie first told you that she was trans. Talk about that moment and your reaction.
REP. MARIE NEWMAN (D-IL): You know, I think it was just pure joy when -- if you can imagine in any situation, when someone finds themselves, finds their authenticity, it`s joyful. So, I just remember throwing my hands up in the air and saying, yay. Because it was liberating and joyful, and I was so happy for her that she had found herself.
MAXWELL: At this point, Marjorie Taylor Greene`s bullying behavior is well documented. But I think, you know, what became a national story is when she put up an anti-trans sign outside of her office, which is coincidentally directly across from yours. It`s a lottery system. This wasn`t planned out.
What were you thinking when she did that? Did she have any idea that you have a background in anti-bullying? And what`s the best way to respond to this kind of bullying, because it`s so mean spirited?
NEWMAN: You know, what I will say about the juxtaposition of our offices, I often say God has a funny sense of humor putting me next to her.
But that sign was highly reflective of who she is. Marjorie Taylor Greene told the world who she was with that hateful sign and her hateful behavior.
So, the good news is, is that the support we received from this, not just me, but other members of Congress that have family members that are transgender, the transgender community and LGBTQ-plus community writ large received amazing support, overwhelming support on this topic. 80 percent of our country is supportive of the Equality Act.
So, again, she just showed how small she is, and how small the group of people is that feel similarly to her.
MAXWELL: In terms of the Justice Department`s decision to challenge this new law in West Virginia, which the governor says only affects 12 kids, which is such an odd response. What`s your reaction to that development that the Justice Department is saying, no, we`re not -- we`re not OK with this law, and they`re stepping up to challenge it?
NEWMAN: Well, first of all, Governor, I would say that there are far more than 12 children that are transgender in your stat. Just statistically, it`s highly improbable that there aren`t many more than that. So, we`ll start there.
But secondly, it`s so good that the DOJ is stepping in. They must say -- it`s a shame that they have to step in, but they are and that`s what their job is, and they should be doing more of this. We have 33 states that have come up with these crazy laws that are in searching for a problem. There is -- it`s a solution without a problem every single time.
I think, Zerlina, you said it beautifully, when you talk about a Stephanie Ruhle`s interview, is that please show me one instance -- there`s a series of A.P. reporters that went out and talked to all of these legislators and the authors of these horrible laws. And every single time it was please share a study data, an episode, an anecdote. They couldn`t share an anecdote of a problem. So, therefore, it does not exist. It`s a red herring.
MAXWELL: Issues like this, they`re in the news but they affect you personally. When there`s news of an anti-trans bill being passed on the state level, what happens in your household? How does that news get processed in a household that`s directly impacted by these laws?
NEWMAN: It scares my daughter and it scares me. Now, the good news is in Illinois, we are highly protected and with a very welcoming state. That said, many states are not. So, that`s why it`s incumbent on me and my colleagues to make sure that we`ve passed the Equality Act, so no one`s discriminated against.
But it doesn`t stop there. We -- you know, we can pass Equality Act but we need to change hearts and minds of this country. This is a humanitarian rights issue. This is a civil rights issue. And it`s just like anything else, we have to change hearts and minds, and legislate. They help one another and together, we`re going to be a much happier nation if we`re not just accepting of one another. But embrace and respect and love one another.
MAXWELL: Embrace love and respect one another. That is a good message for our Friday night, and we`ll have to leave it there.
Congresswoman Marie Newman of Illinois, thank you so much for taking the time tonight, and congratulations on the cover. It`s really beautiful.
NEWMAN: Well, thank you.
MAXWELL: Still ahead -- thank you. Still ahead, it`s the very first Juneteenth federal holiday and Republicans are already slamming it. Surprise, surprise. That`s next.
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MAXWELL: Today, schools and offices across the country are close for the newest federal holiday, Juneteenth. That holiday commemorates the end of centuries of slavery in the U.S.
Yesterday, it was signed into law by President Biden and it will officially be celebrated nationally for the first time tomorrow. But not everyone has been in favor, like South Carolinian Congressman Ralph Norman, who was one of the 14 Republican members of Congress who voted against the bill.
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REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): How many holidays do we want? What`s the magic number? This would put it to 11. Do we want 20? Are we going to do one for the Native American Indians? I mean, where does it stop? And this was such an easy no vote.
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MAXWELL: That too many holidays argument is just the latest in a slew of weak excuses to not recognize the entirety of our country`s history and confront its difficult truths.
Someone who has been -- who has written extensively about our country`s ability to reckon with it is Clint Smith. He`s a writer for The Atlantic and author of the book, how the world -- How the Word is Passed, excuse me, Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America. I highly recommend it.
Clint, Juneteenth, new holiday and it`s a very different from other holidays. There are conflicting emotions here. I`ve seen a lot of Black people posting some funny things today about the fact that we are going to be doing this.
This celebration is about the end of slavery, but it also commemorates just our ugly past. What`s the right way to celebrate this new federal holiday?
CLINT SMITH, WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Yes, I mean, I think what we have to do is hold the both endedness of it. That this is a holiday in which we mourn the fact that freedom was intentionally kept from Black people in Texas for over 2-1/2 years after the Emancipation Proclamation. And over two months after General Lee surrendered (INAUDIBLE) effectively ending the Civil War.
And, so we won what was kept from Black people, but we also celebrate the end of one of the most egregious things that this country has ever done. And I think we have to hold both of those realities at once.
And when I think of Juneteenth, part of what I think about is how slavery exists in this country for 250 years, and Black people have been fighting against the institution of slavery since the day they arrived on the shores, which means that the vast majority of people who fought against slavery, who fought for freedom, who fought for emancipation and abolition, never got a chance to see it for themselves. But they fought for it anyway, because they knew that somebody someday would.
And I think that that`s a lesson for us to -- when we think about what it means to build a better and more equitable and more just world that we fight for, it`s not simply so we can see it ourselves, because somebody someday will.
MAXWELL: That`s so profound to think about the ways in which you are fighting for future generations. And I think in this current moment, a lot of folks are like, OK, we have Juneteenth as a federal holiday. But it feels like we skipped over a couple steps. Like we skipped over voting rights and police reform and reparations, the list goes on.
So, how do we avoid this becoming a superficial celebration of America moving past its racist history, when there`s so much work left to be done?
SMITH: Yes, I mean, I think that this is part of the marathon of cognitive dissonance that it is to be a Black person in this country in which, you know, we have give -- we make Juneteenth a federal holiday.
And at the same time, there`s a state sanction effort in state legislatures across the country to prevent teachers from teaching the very context from which Juneteenth emerges from teaching the historical context that makes Juneteenth possible.
And so, it is this sort of cognitive dissonance and it is reflective of the dissonance and contradictions of this country. And I think part of what we have to do is ground ourselves in and hopefully Juneteenth serves as an entry point to this ground ourselves and how recent this was.
I say all the time that, you know, the way I learned about slavery growing up was as if it happened in the age of the dinosaurs, right. That it was like it was in the Jurassic, it was the Flintstones, the Brontosaurus and slavery, like they all existed the same time.
But I tell people all the time, the woman who opened the National Museum of African American History and Culture alongside the Obama family in 2016 was the daughter of an enslaved person, not the granddaughter or the great- granddaughter. She was the daughter of someone born into intergenerational chattel bondage.
And so, this history that we tell ourselves was a long time ago wasn`t in fact that long ago at all. And if we can remind ourselves of our sort of temporal proximity to this period of time, then we`re more effectively able to identify how it shapes contemporary landscape of inequality, how it shapes our political, social, and economic infrastructure in profound ways.
MAXWELL: I always think about the fact that none of this was that long ago. And, you know, given the fact that there are hundred years in between emancipation and voting, the ability to vote for Black people and Black women in particular, it feels to me like, we still got to keep working, because there`s so much time in between when something changes and when it`s a reality in the lived experience.
And we talk a lot about systemic change. We`re like, we need systemic change and there`s all this nonsense and conspiracy theories about what critical race theory is.
But at the core of it, we`re saying that racism is embedded in many of our systems, and we need to change that. How do we start having that conversation? And how do we turn our conversations towards the policy changes that we need to make -- that make systemic changes possible?
SMITH: I mean, I think all of these things are conversation with one another. I think all the time about how I grew up in New Orleans and to get to school, I had to go on (INAUDIBLE) boulevard, to get to the grocery store, I had to go down Jefferson Davis Highway that my middle school was named after somebody who owned a confederate leader that my parents to live on a street, named after somebody who owned 150 enslaved people.
And the thing about that is the symbols aren`t just symbols. They`re reflective of the stories that society is telling. Those stories embed themselves into the narratives that communities carry. And those narratives shape public policy and public policy shapes the material conditions of people`s lives.
So, that`s not to say that taking down a statue of Robert Lee or making Juneteenth the holiday is going to erase the racial wealth gap, of course not. But part of these things are -- these things are all in conversation with one another, part of the same ecosystem of ideas that ultimately I think help us recalibrate our understanding of what has happened to communities so that we are more able to effectively diagnose what communities deserve because of what has historically been taken from them.
MAXWELL: We can`t cancel these conversations. We need to have these conversations even if they`re hard.
Clint Smith, well, you made it easy. And I want to -- I thank you so much. and I appreciate you taking the time out on this Friday night. Please stay safe.
That is ALL IN for this Friday night. Chris Hayes will be back in this chair on Monday. And you can catch me on my show streaming on Peacock weekdays at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.
"THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts now. Good evening, Rachel.