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Transcript: All In with Chris Hayes, 4/12/21

Guests: Mike Elliott, Phillip Atiba Goff, Brittany Packnett Cunningham, Chuck Schumer, Dan Kildee, Jonathan Cohn


Another Black man is killed by a police at a traffic stop in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) is interviewed. Rep. Kildee opens up about PTSD after the Capitol riots. Michigan officials are requesting for help as COVID cases surge in their state.


JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: His voters, his politician friends, he`s like he just -- he just -- you know, he`s getting paid, he`s having a great time. He`s at home eating cheeseburgers saying don`t drink Coca-Cola while he`s slurping a Diet Coke with his cheeseburger. He loves you all.

Thank you, Mara Gay, David Jolly. That`s tonight`s REIDOUT. "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice over): Tonight on ALL IN.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe that Mr. George Floyd`s death was absolutely preventable.

HAYES: Another dramatic day in the Chauvin murder trial, another Black man killed by police at a traffic stop in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, and another fired police officer after a nightmare traffic stop in Virginia. Tonight, is anything really getting better in the wake of George Floyd?

Then, Senator Chuck Schumer on infrastructure, his big announcement with AOC, and why his Republican colleagues just gave Donald Trump a major award.

Plus, Congressman Dan Kildee goes public with his traumatic stress disorder in the wake of January 6th.

REP. DAN KILDEE (D-MI): Most people experience trauma don`t experience it in real-time on every network across the world.

HAYES: And why the CDC says Michigan can`t just vaccinate themselves out of a COVID surge.

ROCHELLE WALENSKY, DIRECTOR, CDC: Really what we need to do in those situations is shut things down.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES (on camera): Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. Before George Floyd took his very last breath and called out to his mother, we`ve all seen that devastating moment on video. And today his brother, his brother took the stand in a Minneapolis courtroom to give testimony about the brother he lost, the mother they shared, and their love for each other.


PHILONISE FLOYD, BROTHER OF GEORGE FLOYD: Being around him, he showed us like how to treat our mom and how to respect our mom. He just -- he loved her so dearly. And when George, he had found out that my mom was passing because she had to stay with us for hospice, and he was talking to her over the phone, but she perished before he even came down here.

So, that right there, it hurt him a lot. And when we went to the funeral, George just sat there at the casket over and over again. He would just say, mama, mama over and over again.


HAYES: That trial is happening because almost a year ago, former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin knelt on the neck of George Floyd for more than nine minutes and George Floyd died. And so, each and every day during the trial, we are being presented with actual facts about what happened in testimony on how a man that shouldn`t be dead is dead, and it has been devastating to watch.

Just 10 miles away from that courtroom, in Brooklyn Center, that`s a suburb north of Minneapolis, not far, we saw another deadly encounter between the police and a Black man just last night. A Brooklyn Center police officer shot and killed 20-year-old Daunte Wright.

Today, the police chief said the officer initially pulled Wright over for a traffic violation, an expired vehicle registration, then found there was a warrant for his arrest. Now, court record show Wright had missed an appearance for two misdemeanor charges, right? So, there`s a warrant out because he had missed two misdemeanor charges, fleeing from officers and possessing a gun without a permit.

Yesterday, as Daunte Wright was being pulled over, he called his own mother seeking her help, knowing what a police encounter could mean.


KATIE WRIGHT, MOTHER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: He said, they pulled him over because of the air fresheners hanging from his mirror. When the police officer comes back to the window, put him on the phone, and I will give him the insurance. Then I hear the police officer come to the window and say, put the phone down and get out of the car.

And Daunte said, why? And he said, we`ll explain to you when you get out of the car. Like a minute later, I called and his girlfriend answered which was the passenger in the car and said that he`d been shot.


HAYES: Today, officials said they believe the incident was accidental, that the officer intended to use her taser but instead used her gun. And they released footage from the officer`s body camera which I have to warn you is very disturbing.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tase him. Tase him. Taser, taser, taser. I just shot him.


HAYES: That officer who has not been named has been placed on administrative leave. Protests broke out in Brooklyn Center last night with crowds marching to and gathering at the police department. Some protesters threw objects at officers. Police launched projectiles and tear gas to the crowd.

So that was just the last 24 hours. And on top of everything happening in Minnesota, we are of course digesting a horrific new video showing police escalation and bullying and plain cruelty, sadistic cruelty towards a Black army officer serving in the Virginia National Guard.

Now, this happened in Virginia back in December. The video is coming out now because the officer filed a lawsuit earlier this month. This was released by his lawyer. Once again, this footage is also disturbing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You receive our order. Obey it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m honestly afraid to get out. Can I --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you should be. Get out. Get out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have not committed any crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re being stopped by trying to violate, you`re not cooperating. At this point right now, you`re under arrest right. You`re being detained OK, you`re being detained for obstruction of justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not made any violation. I do not have to get out of my vehicle. (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really? Get out of the car now. Get out of the car. You know what, it`s not a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hands off me. Get your hands off me. Get your hands off me. I didn`t do anything.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, sir. Sir, look --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m trying to talk to you. I`m trying to talk to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I`m going to talk to you. Just get out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you please relax. Can you please relax.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out. Get out of the car right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not how you treat a -- I`m actively serving this country and this is how you treat me? I didn`t do anything. Hold on. What`s going -- hold on. Get out of the car.


HAYES: The police officer you saw there using the pepper spray has since been fired. Virginia State Police say they are initiating a thorough and objective criminal investigation into the events. So, those are the last few days of the highest-profile stories in American policing almost a year after George Floyd`s death.

A year of arguably the largest protests in memory, and reform initiatives and reform candidates and even calls to defund the police, and changes at municipal levels up and down the ballot. It has also been a year of an enormous spike in violence in city after city across this country.

This chart shows the percent increase in total homicides in 2020 versus 2019, up 64 percent in Austin, 52 in Chicago, 31 in Phoenix. It`s happening all over no matter the policies of the mayor or the police department it seems or whether the district attorneys are reformers or not.

And here we are, here we are tonight nearing the one-year anniversary of the death of George Floyd amidst all this mobilization, anger, trauma, and reckoning. And it is hard not to ask the question what if anything has changed.

Mike Elliott is the mayor of Brooklyn Center, Minnesota and he joins me tonight. Mayor, thank you for making some time tonight. Quickly, to begin, I just want to know how your city is doing tonight.

MIKE ELLIOTT, MAYOR, BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNESOTA: Well, Chris, thank you for having me on. You know, we`re grieving. Our entire community are grieving. This police-involved shooting, this killing of Daunte Wright, this 20-year- old young man, young Black man has all of us grieving tonight.

My city is grieving, my state is grieving, the nation is grieving, indeed the world over. We`ve seen this one too many times.

HAYES: I think everyone in your city and across the country watching this would agree with that, or certainly a large proportion would. But there`s a question of how did this happen? I mean, after Philando Castile`s death, there were $12 million appropriate at the state level for better police training.

After George Floyd, there was talk of reform and better training. And here we are with this incident within the last 48 hours. How do you answer people who say what -- how did this happen? How can we have let this happen? How could you have let this happen?

ELLIOTT: You know, Chris, until earlier today, as mayor I did not have the command of the police department of my city. That is an arrangement that was written into our city charter. And we`ve seen many issues involving our police department. Unfortunately, a year ago we lost a young man Kobe who was on the autism spectrum whom our officers shot and killed as well.

And so, every -- it seems every week I get a phone call from another black man who has been impacted by a stop involving our officers. Fortunately, it doesn`t always lead to deadly force. However, it`s clear to me -- tonight, we`re all asking the same question. You`re asking how is it that we`re still here after the murder of George Floyd, after all that we`ve seen.

Right away the state of Minnesota, State Senate and House passed what I thought was a very watered down bill that ended up doing very little to prevent what we see happening all across our state, what we saw happen here yesterday, and what we saw happen with George Floyd.

Although the state took action, I spoke out at the time saying nothing in that bill would have prevented the murder of George Floyd. And so, tonight we`re calling for strong action to be taken at the state level here in Minnesota but also at the Senate level. We`re calling for congress to finally pass the George Floyd Act so that we can start the healing, we can start to repair some of the damages that we`re seeing in our community.

HAYES: We should know your city has a city manager system. It`s not uncommon in cities of your -- of your size. You tweeted earlier this evening that effective immediately our city manager has been relieved of his duties. The deputy city manager will be assuming his duties moving forward. I will continue to work my hardest to ensure good leadership at all levels of our city government.

There are people who are mourning at the vigil tonight. There are people likely be protesting. There is a curfew at the site this evening. What is your message to them?

ELLIOTT: We are going to continue to support the peaceful assembly and folks who are expressing their grievances to the government. That is a fundamental right of our -- of citizens of our country and we want to support that right. But we also want to keep our community and our citizens safe. So that`s what we`re going to do tonight. We`re going to work to make sure we`re keeping the peace work with the community members that are with the people who are at the vigil site mourning the loss of this dear brother in our community.

And into my wider Brooklyn Center community, I just want you to know that we`re doing everything in our power to make sure that justice is done for Daunte Wright. And to Daunte Wright`s family, you know, I want to say that my heart goes out to his family. I spoke with his father earlier today. I wasn`t able to speak with the mother because she was engaged in another call. But I will be reaching out to the family. And so, we`re going to be supporting them however we can and we`re going to be supporting our wider Brooklyn Center community by providing counseling and mental health services for people who might be experiencing this trauma all over again.

HAYES: Mayor Mike Elliott of Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, thank you very much on a very busy night I`m sure to take some time with us. I appreciate it.

ELLIOTT: Thank you very much, Chris.

HAYES: Phillip Atiba Goff is a Yale professor and the co-founder and CEO of the Center for Policing Equity. Brittany Packnett Cunningham is an activist who hosts the news and justice podcast undistracted. She was also a member of President Obama`s task force on 21st Century Policing.

Phillip and Brittany, you and I have had multiple conversations through the years about this cluster of topics. It`s enraging and it`s brutal to hear this story, but there`s also -- I have to say, I something is someone who`s been reporting on this for years just maddeningly familiar about it all after the year we`ve had, after the year we`ve had, after the people in the streets, after the calls for reform, after the remarkable sea change in public opinion in certain respects a brutal year, one of the most brutal years to the country. Phillip, what has changed? Why are we here again?

PHILLIP ATIBA GOFF, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, CENTER FOR POLICING EQUITY: So, first, I have to be responsive to the fact that you`re calling out how frustrating and maddening it is to be here watching the news on repeat it seems. I can`t count the number of people I`ve spoken to today who have said wait, which one, which killing, which unarmed Black man who is dead now? Is there a new one or are you talking about the one from yesterday?

So, that`s just a reality that so many Black communities have been saying before the cameras were paying attention. I have to start there. But if you want to know what`s changed, there`s a lot going on that`s different. There actually is. There is good news out there. So, I mean, we`ve seen in Baltimore the D.A. says I`m not going to prosecute um any low-level traffic offenses. And the goal is to leverage it so the police will stop enforcing that.

In Berkeley, in Nassau County, in Ithaca, they`re already going to do that where law enforcement will no longer enforce low-level traffic offenses. And in Ithaca where they`re dismantling the entire police department and putting together a department of community solutions and public safety that`ll be civilian-led, that will be majority unarmed, that will not respond to non-violent issues with armed responses. They`re saying we don`t want these potential deadly situations to even be an option.

And also, as the nation is exhausted and disgusted, literally sick to our stomachs watching this, we can`t forget we built a house out of this kind of violence. The nation is a built house out of this kind of violence. We have built the studs and the infrastructure and the drywall out of stolen labor and stolen land. And now, folks are saying hey, let`s repaint the door.

HAYES: Right.

GOFF: And that ought to fix it. After just one year, we cannot recover from 400 of not just neglect but trying to do this kind of stuff on purpose. So, I get that it`s angering. I`m angry and sick too. I`m sleepless about it too. But it is going to take some time. There`s some good news out there. But it`ll only continue to get better, we`ll only be able to celebrate what we`ve seen so far if we understand it`s the whole house we got to reconstruct.


GOFF: It`s not just some painting on the side of it.

HAYES: Brittany, where are you at right now?

BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM, ACTIVIST: I`m right where Phillip is. I`m disgusted, frustrated. It`s very clear that this is fully systemic. And to quote Phil, that this is about the entire house. I find that in far too many places outside of Ithaca, New York and a couple of other corners of this country we`re not making the kind of progress that we deserve because we`re not having the right conversation.

Chris, if you ran a company and you hired an outside contracting firm to come and help you solve problems, and they came in and they did their job, and when they did their job, they didn`t solve most of the problems. They didn`t prevent the problems from happening, and in fact they caused new problems of their own and they caused those problems incredibly severely against certain people who work for and with you who were your neighbors, people that you loved.

And then they came back to you at the end of that year and they said pay us more money. And in fact, don`t just pay us more money, make sure that the people that we cause the most harm to help pay the bill.

You would laugh them out of the room because in this country that is built on a violent capitalism, that is most often defended by the very people who still tell us to back the blue, that would be a laughable premise. And yet we continue to increase police budgets every single year.

Only 46 percent of violent crimes are actually solved by police only 18 percent of property crimes are actually solved by police. Why are we giving them a raise? And every single day we are forcing Black Americans whether we want to or not to invest in institutional projects that are built based on how effectively they express violence against our bodies our minds and our families.

And then this country has the audacity and the unmitigated goal to turn around and demand that we are patient, that we are understanding, and that we try reforms that haven`t worked time and again. It is insulting. And let`s be very clear, for Daunte Wright, it is deadly. Time up.

HAYES: Phillip Atiba Goff, Brittany Packnett Cunningham, thank you both for your presence tonight. I really, really, really appreciate it.

Coming up next, my exclusive interview with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. Don`t go away.


HAYES: Donald Trump will not, so far as we know, be on the ballot in the midterms but he remains by far the most popular figure within the Republican Party and the key to energizing the base. At least, they view it that way.

And so, Republicans tasked with winning the midterm elections like for instance Florida Senator Rick Scott, chair of the National Republican Senatorial Committee are doing everything they can to stroke the ego of the former president. He might have lost the election but he did win this adorable little second place bowl thingy which Rick Scott proudly presented him at Mar-a-Lago this weekend.

That is the newly invented first-ever Champion for Freedom Award which Trump appeared to accept right after coming off the 18th hole. Republicans clearly just made up an award to make Donald Trump happy and commission someone who mostly works in little leagues I guess. Maybe it worked. He does look happy. There`s one awkward little detail though. The award presentation came one day after he gave what even RNC donors described as a horrible speech in which he reiterated his false claims that he won the election.

During a speech widely panned as rambling and angry, Donald Trump lied over and over, cast himself as a victim as he so often does, and he capped it all off by taking aim at the top Republican in the Senate Mitch McConnell for not fully supporting Donald Trump`s efforts to you know bring to a close 240 years of American democracy.

Trump called McConnell a dumb son of a B, and a stone called loser for not trying hard to overturn an election. "If that were Schumer instead of this dumb son of a B Mitch McConnell, they would never allow it to happen. They would have fought it."

And Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, a Democrat of New York joins me now. Senator, I suppose in the former President`s estimation, it`s a compliment to say that you would engage in an anti-democratic coup on behalf of your -- of your faction though I doubt you probably would. But what did you make of that?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Well, what I make of it you know the question that everyone`s asking is why is there such a dichotomy between the Republican voters electorate and the Republican Senators. For instance, 60 percent of Republicans think the ARP, the American Rescue Plan, the most comprehensive progressive piece of legislation we`ve passed in decades is a good thing.

How many Republican Senators voted for it? Zero. Why? And it`s because Trump still controls them. They`re still afraid of him. He wants nothing to succeed. He`s sort of -- a nihilist is too strong a word. He`s an egotistical man who wants to bring everything down because he lost. And so, you have this division. It ends up hurting the Republican Party but it also hurts America.

Now, we`re not going to let that stop us. We`d always prefer to work with the Republicans when we can. But if we can`t, just as we showed in the American Rescue Plan, even if they`re not with us, we are going to get it done and the American people will be on our side.

HAYES: Yes, the infrastructure bill which you -- which you mentioned, which is also polling quite well and has some bipartisan support at least among voters. It was interesting, I was watching Roger Wicker of Mississippi and there`s a kind of a little bit of a funny whack-a-mole game happening with this bill where they say -- Republicans say we don`t -- we don`t want you raising corporate taxes. We want to leave it where it is. We don`t want you funding this with gas taxes but we don`t want deficit spending.

And when you sort of put everything together, it`s like, well, you don`t really want the bill, right? I mean, that`s really where we`re at, again.

SCHUMER: Yes, well, I hope not. Look, we always prefer Republicans to work with us but only to produce big bold action. We`re not going to repeat the mistakes of 2009 and 10 where they dragged things out for a year and a half and then we got one good thing done but certainly not enough. And they cut that stimulus bill, the original ARA bill by so much that the recession dragged on for years. We`re not repeating that mistake.

So, if they will join with us, of course, we`ll sit down and talk to them and see if they have this suggestion or that, but not at sacrificing the bold progressive change that America demands and America needs. And we`re going to get it done, you know. I mean, people say how the heck are you going to get this done? They said the same thing before the ARP. They said, the Senate will never pass it. Well, we did and it`s benefiting the American people.

And just one point, Chris. We promised them that if we changed the leadership in the Senate, and by the way this is the first time I`m on as your majority leader -- as majority leader. And if we change the presidency, they`d see real results. And they are seeing it. They`re seeing the checks, they`re seeing the vaccines, they`re seeing the money for the schools, the restaurants. They`re seeing money so they don`t have to close. The list goes on and on and on.

And so, the fact that you know we`re breaking through some of the cynicism that oh, it doesn`t matter which party is in power, nothing gets done, is going to help us in the long term pass the infrastructure bill and I think a lot else too.

HAYES: I want to follow up on that in your caucus. But since you raised this, I want to talk about a small but concrete measure that has actually been a little bit of a hobby horse of mine in this program over the last year. FEMA has the ability to help pay for funeral expenses for the survivors of people who lost their lives in the midst of American disaster who don`t have the money to do that.

It was a fairly simple straightforward thing that the last administration could have done and did not. It`s something that I -- that I think both Alexander Ocasio-Cortez and yourself among others have advocated for. My sense is that it was included in the American Rescue Plan statutorily.


HAYES: Is that program now up and running?

SCHUMER: Yes, and this is really great news that I just heard a few minutes ago. The legislation, we senator -- sorry, Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez and myself urged us all -- urged FEMA to set up a hotline. And today, we announced they set up a hotline. And we just heard a few minutes ago that a million people called that hotline today.

HAYES: Oh, my God.

SCHUMER: You know, it`s amazing. And you were on the money about this, Chris. It used to break my heart to watch children and grandchildren push their faces up against that thick hospital glass and look at the loved one passing away, their parent, their grandparent, they couldn`t hug them, they couldn`t touch him they couldn`t kiss them, and then adding insult to injury. They didn`t have money for a funeral and the bodies would lie in a morgue.

So, now, at least there`s the money for a proper burial and a proper funeral. We did this under Sandy. FEMA did it on its own and other disasters. Trump wouldn`t do it. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez called me up and said there`s a disaster here in Corona. This was early on in the crisis. I said, why don`t we try to pass legislation. We did. And look at the results, a million calls in the first day.

HAYES: And that money will be -- it`s not just -- is it retroactive as well or is it perspective, meaning you can be reimbursed, right?

SCHUMER: You can be reimbursed. And on -- that`s why we set up a hotline. They will tell you how to gather a list of your expenses. The hotline will speak a bunch of different languages. The people will be compassionate, they`ve assured us, understanding, and help people get through how to get this reimbursement. It`s not going to be hard. And it`s a -- it`s a good thing amidst this disaster of FEMA to at least give people the assurance even if they don`t have their jobs and don`t have money that a loved one who dies will get a proper burial and a proper funeral. It`s what we should be doing.

HAYES: Quickly, final question for you. One-word response to characterize your relationship with Joe Manchin. Go.

SCHUMER: I tried. I`m not going to give one word. I try -- I always try to show Joe respect, but I also tell him when we disagree and tell him how we have to move forward. He has his viewpoints but as I said in the most major pieces of legislation, Joe Manchin voted for the bill and it passed.

HAYES: Senator Chuck Schumer, the majority leader -- first time as majority leader on this program. Thank you for making time. Come back any time.

SCHUMER: Thanks, Chris. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

HAYES: Coming up, Congressman Dan Kildee opens up about dealing with post- traumatic stress after being trapped in the House Chamber during the January 6th attack, and he joins me next.


HAYES: With all the video that we`ve seen from the failed Capitol insurrection on January 6th, footage and images that have been broadcast and re-tweeted a million times, there`s one video of members of Congress trapped in the House gallery looking down on police officers. And those police officers had their guns drawn in a standoff with the rioters who were trying to break through the doors, right, to enter that chamber.

The video is less than a minute long. It is intense. There is shouting and what sounds like gunshots. At one point, you will hear some profanity. We had to bleep out. The person who recorded this crazy video inside the House Chamber is Michigan Congressman Dan Kildee. He`s also the one you hear here.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back off, back off, get away from the door.


KILDEE: He`ll let us know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, the`ll let us know. Actually, you`ll know.

KILDEE: Yes, you`ll smell it. So, they`ll let us know when we need to put the masks on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, don`t put your mask on now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your pins off.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take your pins off.

KILDEE: Pins off.


HAYES: That loud bang you hear at the end of the video when Kildee says -- that is when a police officer shot and killed one of the rioters in the Speaker`s lobby as she was trying to cross the threshold into the chamber.

And yesterday, in an interview with NBC News, Congressman Kildee opened up about being diagnosed with post-traumatic stress after the capital riot.


KILDEE: Most people experience trauma don`t experience it in real-time on every network across the world. They do it privately, quietly, painfully, silently, alone. And so, if I can speak to them, that`s what I want to do.


HAYES: Joining me now is Congressman Dan Kildee, Democrat from Michigan. Congressman, tell me a little bit about what prompted you to seek out some help on this and diagnosis and talk to mental health experts?

KILDEE: Well, you know, I`ve made a habit of my whole life of encouraging people to seek help, to seek mental health support when they need it. I used to chair our mental health board in my hometown. And so, I felt like I need to live by my own device and share my story and encourage people who are dealing with trauma the way I did to get the help they need, to not think they can somehow tough their way through.

It was a natural reaction that I had as a result of trauma when I was trapped in that gallery with a handful of members of Congress, a gunshot went off. You know, my first instinct was to call my wife. I didn`t know if this was it. And so, that`s a pretty traumatic experience and it`s natural to have this response. And it`s really important that people get help.

You know, as I said in the interview with Hallie, most people don`t experience trauma in this big public way. They carry their pain silently, but there`s help out there. And I -- if I can get one person to make that phone call to seek help the way I did, it makes a difference. I`m myself again. I feel like myself again.

I`m still talking to Dr. Jim Gordon who has been helping me through this, but it matters and it works. And I want people to take advantage of that opportunity.

HAYES: How did you not feel like yourself?

KILDEE: I was pretty agitated in the -- in the days after and maybe for a couple of weeks after the attack. I had tension, stress, you know, tightness in my chest, difficulty relaxing. But the most significant thing and actually my wife and other members of my family noticed it, I had a really short fuse. And I`m an affable guy mostly. I`m easy to get along with.

I was not so easy to get along with during those few weeks. And after talking to Dr. Gordon, I came to understand this was natural and expected to go through these sorts (AUDIO GAP). It`s part of the flight or fight response that people go through when their lives are at risk. And I was able to get through it through some exercises that Dr. Gordon suggested and through just having the ability to talk it through in a way that helped me understand what I was dealing with.


KILDEE: And that`s why I hope that other people will take, you know, will take the time to seek help when they think they need it.

HAYES: You know there`s been a concerted effort in some quarters aligned with Donald Trump and the Republican Party conservatives to minimize what happened, that it was just -- you know, it was -- it was a ridiculous kind of clown show and how can anyone be so upset. And when Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez took to Instagram to talk about how traumatizing she found that day and share that, she was mocked in some quarters. I want to a play you one example of that. Take a listen.


REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Whether you experience any sort of trauma in your life small to large, these episodes can compound on one another. There`s no, you know, something really big happening to you. And then you deal with it and then you move on. And then when something else happens to you, you deal with that and then you -- and then you move on.

Most people live with trauma. And it`s not to -- and that doesn`t even diminish, you know, any of the trauma that any one of us may have been through, but it is to say that there is a community of so many people who can understand.


HAYES: And that got -- you know, that attracted a lot of -- there was a lot of mockery from that including from Tucker Carlson who had this to say. Take a listen.


TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: As if you needed more evidence that it`s all about what`s good for Sandy Cortez and her friends and not about what`s good for you because nobody cares about that.

CORTEZ: Many of us nearly and narrowly escaped death.

CARLSON: Narrowly escape death. When the most harrowing thing you`ve done in life is pass freshman sociology at Boston University, every day is a brand new drama.


HAYES: What do you think of that?

KILDEE: It`s pretty pathetic. And you know, I understand what he`s doing. This is his -- you know, this is his shtick. But five people died, a Capitol police officer was killed by these attackers. We were in that gallery not knowing if we`re going to get out or not. Tucker can make as much fun of it as he wants and I know he likes to pick on Alexandria. Pick on me, Tucker, if you want to pick on somebody.

You know, I`m a big tough guy from Flint who went through a harrowing experience. And I`m not ashamed to say I was scared and it affected me. If he doesn`t like that, too bad. Deal with it.

HAYES: Congressman Dan Kildee, I got to say, you know, it`s a hobby horse mind but anyone that has access to mental health services or talk therapy, whatever you`re going through, if you -- if you can, if you can afford it, if there are ways that you can talk to someone if you`re dealing with something difficult, I can`t recommend it enough. And I admire you being honest and open about this. Thank you so much for your time tonight.

KILDEE: Thank you, Chris.

HAYES: All right, still to come, even with vaccination rates on the rise, a look at why preventative treatment is still hard to get next.


HAYES: It was October 2nd of last year. You probably remember where you are when this happened that Donald Trump tested positive for Coronavirus. In fact, last week was the six-month anniversary of Trump getting released from Walter Reed Medical Center when he marched across the White House lawn before standing on the balcony and dramatically removing his mask. The White House then released this weird video of him talking about his recovery.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Perhaps you recognize me. It`s your favorite president. I went in. I wasn`t feeling so hot. And within a very short period of time, they gave me Regeneron. It`s called Regeneron. And other things too, but I think this was the key. But they gave me Regeneron. And it was like unbelievable.

I felt good immediately. I felt as good three days ago as I do now. I`ve authorized it. And if you`re in the hospital and you`re feeling really bad, I think we`re going to work it so that you get them and you`re going to get them free. And especially if you`re a senior, we`re going to get you in there quick. We have hundreds of thousands of doses that are just about ready.


HAYES: Now, Trump was probably downplaying the severity of his condition when he said he wasn`t feeling so hot. Days earlier, his doctors had told reporters he had a high fever, his oxygen levels had twice dropped below normal. So, to bounce back that quickly in less than a week, well, it might say a lot about the medicine he received.

He was treated with the monoclonal antibody therapy which is the medical term for what Trump called Regeneron. And when his buddies got infected, he made sure to share this treatment with them. Secretary of Housing Ben Carson who said he was desperately ill with COVID said Trump cleared him for Regeneron which he says saved his life.

Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie who said he was in intensive care for a week said he got a rival version of the same treatment. Trump`s former lawyer Rudy Giuliani said he got both versions of the therapy, both of them. But since the day that Donald Trump promised he had hundreds of thousands of doses of treatment standing by he was going to get to Americans, specifically American seniors were going to have access to this miracle cure, well, since then, more than 346,000 people in this country have died from COVID.

Today, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals who makes the antibody-drug Trump raved about announced that their drug reduced the risk of developing symptomatic COVID by 81 percent which maybe helps explain how the Trump crew all made it out unscathed. The drunk could -- the drug could also have potential new preventative applications could be given unvaccinated people who`ve been exposed to the virus as a kind of preventative measure.

And even though Donald Trump did not wheel out this drug last fall at the scale needed to save hundreds of thousands of lives despite the fact he promised that, there are still lots of people in this country who could use it. And that is especially true in Michigan where we are seeing a record surge in new cases and hospitalizations.

You`ve heard me say that phrase before and I`m not happy to be saying it either, but that`s what we`re looking at. And we`re going to dive into what that is, why that is, what it means for the rest of the country after this. Don`t go anywhere.


HAYES: One of those maddening, bedeviling aspects of this pandemic from the beginning has been that even of we know in broad sense, right, in the (INAUDIBLE) ways to curtail transmission to fight the disease, suppress the disease, in most cases, there`s no obvious neat cause and effect why one place at one time has a particularly bad outbreak.

There`s a fair amount of randomness. And that seems to be what is happening in Michigan. Right now, that state is at the epicenter of the virus in the entire U.S. It is experiencing its worst COVID outbreak of the whole pandemic. And it`s not a place that`s been particularly aggressive in reopening from some states, states that never closed.

Now, one thing to note here is that the U.K. variant, the B117 variant is spreading quickly. And we know that`s been very transmissible, cases more than doubling since the end of March. So now, Michigan is trying to figure out how to handle the worst outbreak in the country at this very strange moment in the life of this pandemic.

HuffPost Senior National Correspondent Jonathan Cohn explores the state`s recent struggles with the virus in his latest piece titled "Michigan shows why managing the COVID end game is so hard." And he joins me now.

And Jonathan, I learned a lot from your piece. What`s going on there? Why is this happening and what is being done about it?

JONATHAN COHN, SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, HUFFPOST: Yes, so if you talk to the people on the ground, you talk to the public health experts, they`ll tell you there`s no single answer. You were -- you hit on one of them. We were one of the states where B117 hit early. There`s some thought that actually because Michigan was so successful earlier in the pandemic, that we have an unusually number of people still susceptible to the virus.

And then you have the problem of behavior. You have people who are acting like this is over. You go to parts of the state, people aren`t wearing masks anymore. There`s a return to activity, but the virus is still here. And you put that all together, and you get a mix. And suddenly, boom, we have this big outbreak.

HAYES: Now, there`s a few things are happening here. One thing that`s really distressing, right, is we`re seeing hospitalizations follow cases. There is some hope, I think, that we won`t see the level of fatalities, because again, 40 percent of the fatalities have happened in long-term care facilities. I think something like, 80 percent or people 60 and older.

So, the people you talk to there, like, what is the expectation about ultimately how deadly destructive this wave is going to be?

COHN: Yes, I mean, the expectation is that, you know, look, we have done a pretty good job of vaccinating the most vulnerable people. Also, look, I mean, we are much better at treating this than we were a year ago. I mean, I remember a year ago when this was all happening in Detroit and we were all worried about it, an even greater catastrophe.

So, the mortality looks like it. You won`t be losing as many people. The flip side is, we are seeing people still get very sick. Some younger people get very sick.


COHN: Long-term effects and there are still people dying. It`s not like that has stopped.

HAYES: Yes. There`s also -- I mean, you write about this in the piece, right? So, there`s a strange moment right now. People can see the light at the end of the tunnel. People are exhausted. The weather is getting warmer. I think if people have vaccinated or even people who have sort of never thought it was that big of a deal and it was all over -- you know, overblown to begin with, there`s not even the leverage or space politically to do something like impose a two-week lockdown, like what the U.K. did in response to this same variant, right?

I mean, Whitmer has been fairly aggressive and she`s applauded by a lot of public health folks. She`s become this like, hated figure on the right. The Michigan GOP chairman talked about her as one of the three witches, that he wants to burn at the stake last month.

But she does not have -- there`s not a lot of political latitude I think for her. Is that -- is that a correct assessment?

COHN: Yes. I mean, you know, the pressure here -- I mean, it`s amazing. We have public health experts who are saying please, can we just kind of hold it together for a couple of extra weeks? Maybe, you know, go to a pause in the restaurants, just two or three weeks so the vaccines can kind of catch up and we can get ahead of this.

And meanwhile, we have the speaker or the Republican speaker of the state house saying forget it. We need to be dialing back all the restrictions we have. There`s this constant overtone. She`s facing lawsuits. And you know, you can see -- I mean, she was so strong early last year in the face of pressure.

But you know, this year, we`ve seen it, she has been -- you can tell, she is being much more careful. There was a split with her secretary of health in January, who worry that we were opening too quickly, for example. And so, she`s in -- you know, she`s in this very difficult position right now and trying to balance, you know, the needs of public health against this very, very strong pushback.

HAYES: Yes, we should -- we should note that she was the subject of those liberate Michigan protests. You know, you had the men with the open carrying in the state capitol. You had, of course, the six men indicted in the alleged plot to kidnap her and try her for her -- literally over her COVID policy.

So, she has been -- you know, she has had a target painted on her. Donald Trump went after her. There does seem to be a little bit of a bend in the curve. Is there hope that maybe you guys are past peak there?

COHN: Yes. I mean, you know, everyone is kind of watching the numbers very carefully. Obviously, vaccination is moving ahead quickly. They`re moving very aggressively now to really try to reach some of the underserved areas. They`re going out into the communities, into Detroit where we`ve had this very, very stark disparities in vaccination rates.

And Detroit is a particularly difficult city among other things because it`s so spread out. We don`t have great public transportation here. So you know, there`s a little bit of hope, and we will get there, but you know, how long will it take?

HAYES: Jonathan Cohn, great reporting on this at HuffPost. Thank you so much. That is ALL IN on this Monday evening. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.