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Transcript: All In with Chris Hayes, 2/9/21

Guest: Amy Klobuchar, Laurence Tribe, Elizabeth Holtzman, Quinta Jurecic, Rashida Tlaib


The U.S. Senate votes former President Trump`s impeachment is constitutional 56 to 44. Congressman Jamie Raskin opened his case with a striking 13-minute video that brought home the harrowing reality of the events of January 6th, stitching together video collected on the scene and inside the Capitol. Six GOP senators joined all Democrats in voting that the Trump trial is constitutional.


REP. AYANNA PRESSLEY (D-MA): But I`m encouraged by the victories of progressive security this week.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Indeed. Indeed. I think so many people are. Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, thank you so much for all that you do, and thanks for being here. That is tonight`s REIDOUT. "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice over): Tonight on ALL IN.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What our country experienced that day is the Framers worst nightmare come to life.

HAYES: The second impeachment trial of Donald J. Trump is underway.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Their argument is that if you committed an impeachable offense in your last few weeks in office, you do it with constitutional impunity.

HAYES: Tonight, we will replay in full the jaw-dropping 13-minute documentary evidence video submitted by the Democrats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We outnumber you a million to one here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take the building.

HAYES: Then, the ex-president`s lawyers are forced to scramble their defense.

BRUCE CASTOR, LAWYER OF DONALD TRUMP: To be quite frank with you, we changed what we were going to do on account that we thought that the House managers` presentation was well done.

HAYES: Tonight, what we learned from day one, why even Republicans were shocked by Trump`s defense, and what it means for conviction in the country moving forward.

RASKIN: Senators, this cannot be our future. This cannot be the future of America.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. Today, the second impeachment trial of former President Donald J. Trump officially began. And the argument before the U.S. Senate today was focused -- it was whether or not the trial itself was constitutional because it takes place after Trump has left office. The end result is that the trial will actually move forward. The measure to move the trial forward past this evening 56 to 44, a bipartisan vote was six Republican senators joining every Democrat in that vote.

Now, the result was never really in doubt since the Democrats have the majority of that body. Today was supposed to simply be the argument on that technical question of constitutionality. But lead impeachment manager, Congressman Jamie Raskin, opened his case with a striking 13-minute video that brought home the harrowing reality of the events of January 6th, stitching together video collected on the scene and inside the Capitol.

We are going to play that video for you now. You absolutely, if you have not seen it, should see it. If you`ve seen it once, you should see it again. We`re going to play it in its entirety as it was presented to the United States Senate, unedited and uncensored. Because what was presented in the trial is evidence in a matter of public record, we have not believed the graphic language or obscured the violent images, so Viewer discretion is advised.


TEXT: January 6, 2021

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will stop the steal. Today, I will lay out just some of the evidence proving that we won this election and we won it by a landslide. This was not a close election. And after this, we`re going to walk down -- and I`ll be there with you. We`re going to walk down. We`re going to walk down to the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s take the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s take the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to the Capitol where our problems are. It`s that direction.


TEXT: As President Trump continues his speech a wave of supporters began marching to the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody in. This way. This way.

TRUMP: They gave tens of thousands of votes. They came in in duffel bags. Where the hell did they come from?




TEXT: The crowd breaches the protective barricades of the Capitol as Congress meets to count the votes of the Electoral College.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madam Speaker, the Vice President and the United States Senate.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We outnumber you a million to one out here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fuck these pigs.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s much more coming.


TEXT: President Trump continues his speech as Members take their seats.

TRUMP: The Constitution says you have to protect our country and you have to protect our Constitution. And you can`t vote on fraud. And fraud breaks up everything, doesn`t it? When you catch somebody in a fraud, you`re allowed to go by very different rules. So, I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re talking about you, Pence.


TRUMP: We fight. We fight like hell. And if you don`t fight like hell, you`re not going to have a country anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fuck D.C. Police. Fuck you.


TEXT: President Trump ends his speech and urges his mob to move towards the Capitol.

TRUMP: So, we`re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we`re going to the Capitol and we`re going to try and give our Republicans -- the weak ones because the strong ones don`t need any of our help. We`re just going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the fuck out of here you traitors.


SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): We`re debating a step that has never been taken in American history.


MCCONNELL: President Trump claims the election was stolen. The assertions range from specific local allegations, to constitutional arguments, to sweeping conspiracy theories.


MCCONNELL: But, my colleagues, nothing before us proves illegality anywhere near the massive scale, the massive scale that would have tipped the entire election.

TEXT: Trump`s mob breaches two barriers and can now reach the doors of the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our house. Our house. Our house.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fuck you, police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s go. Let`s go. Let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re coming.


TEXT: Trump`s mob breaches the Capitol.


TEXT: Vice President Mike Pence is ushered off the Senate floor.

TEXT: Capitol Police Officer Eugene Goodman diverse a mob away from senators and the Vice President.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take the floor. Take it.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to beat us all?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re here. They`re here.

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): My challenge today is not about the good people of Arizona.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ll stay in recess until the call of the chair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Protesters are in the building.

LANKFORD: Thank you.

TEXT: Speaker Pelosi is ushered off the floor of the House Chamber.

REP. PAUL GOSAR (R-AZ): Mr. Speaker, can I have order in the chamber.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The house will be in order.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s go. Let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The house will be an order. OK.

AMERICAN CROWD: Stop the steal. Stop the steal. Stop the steal.


AMERICAN CROWD: Fuck the blue. Fuck the blue. Fuck the blue.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re outnumbered. There`s a fucking million of us there. And we are listening to Trump, your boss.

AMERICAN CROWD: Treason. Treason. Treason.

TEXT: President Trump sends a tweet criticizing Vice President Pence. Insurgents near the Senate Chamber where senators remain inside.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pence is a traitor.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Defend your Constitution. Defend your country. Defend you Constitution.


AMERICAN CROWD: Stop the steal. Stop the steal. Stop the steal. Stop the steal. Stop the steal. Stop the steal.

TEXT: Insurgents reach the door of the House Chamber. House Members remain inside.

AMERICAN CROWD: Stop the steal. Stop the steal.

TEXT: Representative evacuate the floor of the House. Members in the House Gallery are not able to get out until minutes later.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re leaving. They`re leaving. They`re leaving.

AMERICAN CROWD: Break it down. Break it down. Break it down.




TEXT: Ashli Babbitt is shot and killed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody, stay down. Get down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the Senate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where the fuck are they?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s got to be something in here we can fucking use against these scumbags.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what we fucking need to have, 30,000 guns up here.


AMERICAN CROWD: No Trump, no peace. No Trump, no peace. No Trump, no peace.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take it. Take it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Use the shield. Use the shield.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need fresh patriots to the front.




AMERICAN CROWD: Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump.

TEXT: Over two hours after insurgents breached the Capitol, President Trump tweets a video.

TRUMP: There`s never been a time like this where such a thing happened where they could take it away from all of us, from me, from you, from our country. This was a fraudulent election. But we can`t play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So, go home. We love you. You`re very special. You`ve seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home in peace.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mobilize your own cities, your own counties. Storm your own capitol buildings and take down every one of these corrupt mother fuckers. Hang on.

TEXT: At least seven people lost their lives, more than 140 law enforcement officers suffered physical injuries, and many more have been severely impacted by their experiences that day.

TEXT: Four hours after the Capitol was breached, Donald Trump tweeted the following. "These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love and in peace. Remember this day forever!"


HAYES: Something right. Republican Senator Roy Blunt likely spoke for many of his colleagues when he said "That may be the longest time I`ve sat down just watch straight footage of what was truly a horrendous day." Former Senator Claire McCaskill said, she was told that some Republican senators including Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz looked away from the video and didn`t watch.

The opening salvo by impeachment managers made the Trump defense team changed their entire plan. They were going to get up and argue the unconstitutionality of the trial first, but instead, as Trump lawyer Bruce Castor admitted, 45 minutes into a rambling, bizarre, largely incoherent defense, they had to change tack because the house impeachment argument was so strong.


CASTOR: I`ll be quite frank with you. We changed what we were going to do on account that we thought that the House managers presentation was well done. And I wanted you to know that we have responses to those things. I thought that what the first part of the case was, which was the equivalent of a motion to dismiss, was going to be about jurisdiction alone.

We have counter-arguments to everything that they raised, and you will hear them later on in the case from Mr. Van der Veen and from myself.


HAYES: After Castor, a second Trump player appeared, David Schoen. He was different in tone, less meandering, much more angry in his delivery. He expressed outrage at the House managers` video of the insurrection and accused house managers of hiring a movie company to produce it, and then minutes later, played his own video, a brief out-of-context compilation of Democrats talking about impeaching Trump all set to scary background music.

I want to bring in one of the jurors in Trump`s impeachment trial who was there in that room, Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator, thank you for joining us. What was it like in that room today?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): It was chilling to watch that video and to be in the very room where this had happened. I say, everyone was watching the video. And what we saw for the first time was just the timeline. The fact that in just a visceral way that the President that things he had been saying at the rally, which of course we were not watching because we were doing our jobs in the Senate, to basically directing this angry mob to go down the mall.

And then the timelines for when he did his first video hours later, and then that tweet, which I had actually never put together the timeline there that that was literally after the officers had been hurt, over 100 of them. We now know that we had an officer that died because of the injuries sustained, that a woman had been shot, someone else had been trampled.

What does he do? He sent out after being glued to the TV a tweet that says these are the things and events that happen when a landslide election victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots. He is calling them great patriots, Chris, who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Then he tells them to go home, but then he ends with remember this day forever. So, to me, that`s all you need to know about Donald Trump and his role in inciting this riot.

HAYES: Yes, I agree that the sort of sinking of the timelines of the President`s words and actions, the fact that it was two hours after the Capitol was breached, that he puts a video in which he says to the people, we love you. He also says go home and peace as in there will be no repercussion. Like, we`re -- OK, enough of this. You guys can go home. Not, you know, we will bring these people to justice. None of that.

The thing, I wonder if you -- if you noted this or if you felt it in the room watching that video, the fact that so many of the people that assaulted the Capitol were literally engaging it under his banner, and whether you had seen that before, whether that that hit you sitting in that room.

KLOBUCHAR: It did, because remember, he has spent -- he spent his four years going after the other branches of government and assault on the courts with his words, and assault on Congress. And this time, he actually sent them down there, and they were actually using these banners and poles with his name on it to literally ram in the door, which as Jamie Raskin so memorably described, that was a sound he will never forget as they tried to ram in the door.

And he talked about the fact that -- and I remember this video that I`ll never forget -- is one of them using an American flag, an American flag attached to a poll to beat an officer when the officer was simply trying to defend our country. And those are visceral moments. And so, when you ask how the senators reacted, I don`t want to care -- I don`t want to hear about how they didn`t like the defense lawyer. That`s not the point. You can`t make a defense to the indefensible.

And so, what I hope my colleagues listen to as trial are the facts. And the facts are on full, ugly, horrific display in that video you just showed.

HAYES: Yes, there was a moment I want to play for you when Mr. Schoen who is one of the lawyer for the ex-president, the defeated and impeach president that basically -- that they have tried to take this view and they set it in their brief and set it here that it is -- it is somehow outrageous or incitement itself to just say what happened on that day. Here`s what Schoen said about the presentation by the House impeachment managers. Take a listen.


DAVID SCHOEN, LAWYER OF DONALD TRUMP: We now learn that the House managers, in their wisdom, have hired a movie company in a large law firm, to create, manufacture and splice for you a package designed by experts to chill and horrify you and our fellow Americans.

Our presentation over two days focusing on this as if it was some sort of blood sport.


HAYES: What do you think of that?

KLOBUCHAR: The House managers have a job and they`re putting on a case. And this isn`t one of those cases that involves a lot of behind closed-door investigation of what happened when people weren`t at meetings. It may eventually with whoever was involved in funding this and other things. But right now, this is about simply did the President incite this riot.

And all you need to look at are his words, what he said leading up to, that it wasn`t just one momentary utterance. It was all of his bashing the election, bashing our democracy, calling his people to arms, calling his people to go down that mall. And then you have to look at what they did.

And when you see that officer screaming who`s just simply trying to protect the Capitol, when you hear their words, when they are saying unbelievable things about our police officers, about our representatives going after personally the Vice President, something that the President kept doing, including on the day of January 6th simply because the former vice president was doing his job which was to preside over the Electoral College, those things, those are the facts, those are the words.

And I don`t think any foe argument that somehow the constitution doesn`t allow for this is going to work. That`s why Senator Cassidy changed his vote. That`s why you saw conservative lawyers, including one man, Mr. Cooper that had been named Republican lawyer of the year, coming out clearly and saying, you know what, they don`t really have a case here.

The precedent of the Senate as well as the language of the Constitution makes it very clear this case should go forward.

HAYES: Senator Amy Klobuchar, who will be a juror in this proceeding for the next week and a half or as long as it takes, after a very busy and grueling day, thank you for making some time for us tonight. I appreciate it.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, Chris. Thank you.

HAYES: Ahead, we learned after the first day of the impeachment trial on how Trump`s legal team lost their first fight. There`s a lot to get to. A constitutional law expert Laurence Tribe next.


HAYES: The first day of a second impeachment trial of Donald Trump focused on just one question whether or not it is constitutional to try and impeach President who is no longer in office. The vast majority of experts who have really studied that issue agree with the House impeachment managers. The trial is absolutely constitutional. (INAUDIBLE) got two hours today to argue their case.


RASKIN: Their argument is that if you committed an impeachable offense in your last few weeks in office, you do it with constitutional impunity, you get away with it. In other words, conduct that would be a high crime and misdemeanor in your first year as president and your second year as president and your third year as President, and for the vast majority of your fourth year as president you can suddenly do in your last few weeks in office without facing any constitutional accountability at all.

This would create a brand new January exception to the Constitution of the United States of America.

CASTOR: Judgment, in other words, the bad thing that can happen, the judgment, in cases of impeachment, I.E. what we are doing, shall not extend further than removal from office. What is so hard about that? What of those -- which of those words are unclear, shall not extend further than removal from office? President Trump no longer is in office. The object of the Constitution has been achieved. He was removed by the voters.


HAYES: To assess those arguments, I`m joined now by Laurence Tribe, professor of constitutional law at Harvard Law School and co-author of To End Your Presidency: The Power of Impeachment.

Now, Professor Tribe, I will start by saying, as the Senator noted, that the -- I think there`s an asymmetry in the hands that each side have been dealt in terms of the strength of their cases. So, whether the lawyering was up to snuff or not, which I think it was clearly not very good, what was your assessment of the arguments today?

LAURENCE TRIBE, PROFESSOR OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: What you just played was a good example. When Mr. Castor purported to quote the Constitution, instead of judgment shall not extend beyond removal from office, he was lying by stopping the sentence there because it goes on.


Tribe: It says, and disqualification from holding future office. That is what this is all about. So, it wasn`t just a bad argument, it was a distortion of everything. And we shouldn`t forget how powerful the argument on the other side was. It wasn`t just that the president`s lawyers basically sucked. It was that the lawyers for the House of Representatives, the ones who spoke, Raskin, sizzling, the goose, did a brilliant job showing the text of the Constitution, the history.

The whole purpose of the impeachment power to protect the country from would-be tyrants, who are most likely to do damage at the very end, when it comes to the point of transition, the whole point would be destroyed if we couldn`t hold this trial. And that`s why it was obvious that the correct answer is we have to continue this trial.

HAYES: Yes. Your characterization of the president`s lawyer`s performance was shared by a lot of people I think who are watching both on TV and in the -- in the gallery. Senator Bill Cassidy is an interesting case because when that -- when Rand Paul brought that motion, that point of order to basically objects the constitutionality before the trial even began, it was a 55-45 vote, 55 -- 50 Democrats, five Republicans voting to proceed, 45 Republicans voting yes.

There was one vote that switched, and that Senator Cassidy today. And here he is explaining in part why he switched his vote. Take a listen.


SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): President Trump`s team were disorganized. They did everything they could but to talk about the question at hand. And when they talked about it, they kind of glided over it, almost as if they were embarrassed of their arguments. Now, I`m an impartial juror, and one side is doing a great job and the other side`s doing a terrible job on the issue at hand. As an impartial juror, I`m going to vote for the side that did the good job.


HAYES: It was a sort of breath of fresh air to see that there was a persuadable gettable vote in that gallery.

TRIBE: It sure was. But I would point out that the issue is not grading what kind of a job the two sides did. The issue was how to preserve our democracy. You know, our freedom, our right to live as a self-governing people depends on being able to vote out some guy who was doing a terrible job killing half a million people almost because of how we mishandles the virus, doing all kinds of bad stuff.

But if our attempt to vote him out of office can be overridden not just by a lot of frivolous lawsuits, but when they fail by twisting the arms of the Secretary of State of Georgia, and when that fails, storming the Capitol, killing cops, threatening to hang the vice president, threatening to assassinate the Speaker of the House. And if they can get away with that with no accountability through the impeachment process, well, then our democracy is gone. What we have fought for 235 years is gone. That`s what we should be focused on.

We can`t afford, as Jamie Raskin so eloquently said, we cannot afford to have this secret January exception to the Constitution and to the idea that no one is above the law, because our republic will be lost if we have it. That`s the issue. And that`s what the next few days will focus on. I mean, that visual demonstration was powerful. It`s not just, you know, a picture`s worth 1,000 words. That was worth more than all of war and peace.

You just look at that, and as Amy Klobuchar pointed out, you can see the president engaged in the worst kind of insurrection against our country. That has got to lead to his permanent disqualification. That`s what the trial is about.

HAYES: Yes. And it strikes me. I mean, the flimsiness of the legal arguments offered today. I mean, like that example of Castor cutting off the quote mid-sentence, right, saying shall go no further than -- I mean, literally he cuts off the sentence. You have Schoen, you know, talking about at points appearing to argue that obviously there can be no trial, that impeachment after the officer is not in office, even though the plain precedent of the Belknap case back in 1876 contradicts that and he just ran right past it.

But the flimsiness to your point seems -- its reverse engineer on the fact that they are looking for some cover to evade this sentence. And so, this is what they`ve come up with so that they can hide behind it.

TRIBE: Right. And there are one or two scholars who take this view, but hundreds and hundreds don`t. And the consensus is obviously based on the Constitution`s text, the history. Our whole history is based on the idea that you have to have a way of permanently disqualifying someone who has shown himself to be an existential danger.

And the moment you convict and remove somebody, they`re obviously no longer an officer of the United States. If that meant you couldn`t go on to sentence them to permanent disqualification, then that whole part of the Constitution would be erased.

HAYES: In fact, at one point, Trump`s lawyer appeared to want to argue that it was an affront to the constitution to consider disqualification, permanent disqualification despite the fact that in said constitution, there is the option of disqualification in precisely those words.

TRIBE: And it was an important option. The Framers knew that that was the most important thing you could do because it was -- people who had already left office who were the danger when they would come back. That was the whole point writing the impeachment power the way they did.

HAYES: Laurence Tribe, professor of constitutional law, thank you so much for sharing those insights with us. I really appreciate it.

TRIBE: Thank you, Chris.

HAYES: Still to come, House impeachment managers are expected to present new never before seen evidence in the trial of Donald Trump. We`ll talk about what`s about to happen in day two after this.


HAYES: With today`s constitutionality vote out of the way, House managers are expected to officially begin their opening arguments at noon tomorrow. They have 16 hours to present their case against Donald Trump for inciting the mob that stormed the Capitol and threatened the lives of members of Congress on January 6th.

Aides to House manager said they plan to use "All the evidence available in all the forms" including, get this, "evidence that nobody has seen before." Interesting. To talk about what we can anticipate going forward, I`m joined by Quinta Jurecic, managing editor at Lawfare blog and contributing writer at the Atlantic, and Elizabeth Holtzman, former Democratic Congresswoman who served on the Judiciary Committee that voted to impeach Nixon, author of The Case for Impeaching Trump.

Elizabeth, can I ask you this? There are -- there are -- you have been in the position of being a lawmaker on a committee that`s dealing with this issue. There are competing imperatives that strikes me here to Democrats in the Senate who very much want to pass a COVID relief package and move on with the Biden agenda, and do not want to tarry too long, particularly if it won`t lead to conviction.

That said, there are enormous factual holes here. We still don`t know why Officer Sicknick died or what he died of. And I wonder what your instinct is about what kind of evidence and how full that should be?

ELIZABETH HOLTZMAN, FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN FROM NEW YORK: Well, you know, of course, you always want all the evidence in the world so that you can present a case that`s just open and shut. But that rarely happens, so you have to make a decision about what you can leave out.

I just want to remind everybody about the Nixon impeachment effort which voted in the House Judiciary, which had a House Judiciary Committee vote against him. Base -- the basic evidence was out of his own mouth, the tape recordings. And the clinching evidence was the Saturday -- was the -- was the smoking gun tape which showed him ordering the cover up. And that`s when every single Republican on the committee joined every single Democrat and said he needs to be impeached.

So, the idea that we need eyewitness testimony, other kinds of testimony, that would be great. But in the real world, you don`t need that. And I think the evidence they have is really, really telling if people focus on it. Not only do you have the words that Trump used at the rally to incite people, but when he came -- when he got people to come to the rally, what did he say? He urged them to come. He said, be there. He tweeted more than once, and he said it`s going to be wild.

What does that say? What`s the last demonstration you went to with an invite it`s going to be wild? I never went to one like that, and I went to plenty of them. So, you look at that, and then you look at what he said when it was over. What he said was, basically, I`m paraphrasing here, but what can you expect when you "steal and election?" People are going to do this.

Really, that`s the justification that he is still not condemning them? After all that`s happened on that day, he`s not condemning them -- condemning them. He`s saying, this is what you can expect. And so therefore, you asked for it, and you deserve it. And that`s the message not only remember this day forever to them, not only telling them we love you and you`re special people, but saying that this is what the American people deserved because they didn`t speak up for Donald Trump. And that`s very powerful. People have to focus on his words.

HAYES: Quinta, Elizabeth makes a point here that in some ways that 13- minute video that we showed shows how much evidence there is, right? I mean, like, what more do you need? I wonder how you feel about that, how you feel about the question of witnesses as someone who has been writing about and covering this president, his misdeeds, and impeachment for a while.

QUINTA JURECIC, MANAGING EDITOR, LAWFARE: Absolutely. I agree completely with Elizabeth. I think that the video was incredibly powerful even for me as someone who`s been, you know, following this very closely and has seen a lot of the video.

I was really struck by how aggressive the editors of the video were and choosing what to include. They included footage of Ashli Babbitt`s shooting, they included video of the D.C. Metropolitan Police officers screaming in pain being shot in the door. They were really, really trying to bring home how brutal and ugly and frightening the Capitol riot was.

And I do think that they did a really masterful job in splicing in Trump`s comments to the shots of what was happening in the Capitol and ended with a shot of Trump`s tweets sort of not really disavowing any of the violence. So, to me, that seems like an extremely strong case.

I will say that, you know, it kind of feels like we`ve gone from Republican senators having to deny the content of the Mueller report to Republican senators having to deny a call transcript between Trump and the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky during the first impeachment, and now Republican senators are faced with the task of deciding whether or not to deny the significance of video that was live-streamed at a riot where they work.


JURECIC: So, it should be enough. I don`t know if it will be.

HAYES: Yes, it is -- I mean, Orwellian is overused, of course, but this is precisely actually the kind of central philosophical conundrum of 1984, right, is that you are forced to deny what is in front of your own eyes as a matter of political expedience and under the threat of penalty of an authoritarian system.

And the point here, Elizabeth, that, again, what the 13 minutes made me think when I thought of the question of evidence and witnesses is that this is a fairly rare case, when you talk about the smoking gun tape, where there is a lot of evidence they can present without witnesses because so much is already recorded in the public record.

HOLTZMAN: Correct. Correct. And that`s what makes the case so powerful. And the question is very simply, is this the kind of society we want where a president can if -- after exhausting every other way to overturn a peaceful and fair election, to bring out his shock troops, his storm troops, and bring out violence to put himself back in office? And that is horrifying.

Do we want this -- is this the legacy that we are leaving for our children? I think the answer has to be no. But these Republican senators seem to be marching in lockstep with each other and that`s wrong. They need to be impartial jurors and do impartial justice. And I`m afraid that`s not going to happen.

HAYES: There`s a little distinction, Quinta, I think here in terms of a division of labor as I sort of think through it which is, you know, I have a strong desire for a much more comprehensive, factual, like record of that day. This trial will not be that. But it does seem that -- like, to divide -- sort of divide this trial from that, but also not lose sight of getting the full record of the day. Because as a journalist, there are so many questions we did not have the answers to.

JURECIC: That`s exactly right. I mean, we still don`t have any sense of what happened with the death of Brian Sicknick. There are many, many questions that are still being sort of untangled by law enforcement. And I think it`s important to note that, you know, the FBI is still looking for some of the suspects here, right. They put up new bulletins every day.

So, the story is very much still being untangled and sort of each new criminal complaint or indictment we received from law enforcement tells a little bit more of the story. And of course, reporters are doing great work too to untangle that thread. So, in a weird way, you know, the criminal process is not maybe where you would think you would find the story. You might expect that impeachment is that place, but I think it`s here. It`s actually the other way around.

HAYES: Yes. And I think there`s probably be some crossover because some of the reporting, the filings in many of these criminal cases show people talking about the president telling them to be there and will be wild is the thing that inspired them to go, saying that the President invited us. I mean, there`s a lot of inculpatory evidence in those various indictments and filings that have already happened among the folks that were caught in the riot.

Quinta Jurecic and Elizabeth Holtzman, thank you for making time tonight.

HOLTZMAN: Thank you.

HAYES: Don`t go anywhere. Much more in today`s trial and Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib reacts to being included in Trump`s defense. She joins me ahead.



RASKIN: People died that day. Officers ended up with head damage and brain damage. People`s eyes were gouged. An officer had a heart attack. An Officer lost three fingers that day. Two officers have taken their own lives. Senators, this cannot be our future. This cannot be the future of America.


HAYES: Lead Impeachment Manager Jamie Raskin delivered a powerful argument today as he described the attack in the Capitol. Congressman Raskin`s words will air in full on "RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" in just a few minutes. For her reaction to what we saw today, I`m joined by Democratic Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib of Michigan.

Congresswoman, what was your impression of today`s proceedings?

REP. RASHIDA TLAIB (D-MI): I`m incredibly proud of the leadership of representative Raskin and so many others that are really truly putting the love of country first. One of the most passionate speeches I`ve heard where he talks about democracy is personal, and it is.

I mean, Chris from my district alone, they were intentionally trying to throw out Black votes right here in Detroit. And so, for us, it was extremely personal, that they were trying to use White supremist rhetoric, trying to use that kind of racist tone and these conspiracy theories that led to the violence of January 6th.

And so, Raskin is right. This is extremely personal and extremely about -- you know, very much about us being able to keep our right to have a voice at all levels of government, and especially, again, pushing back against that violence that we saw on January 6th.

HAYES: Now, one of the arguments presented by the lawyers which was a stitched-together video is actually a reprising what they did back a year ago. And the basic argument is, Democrats have always wanted to impeach the guy. They sort of -- they wanted to impeach him and they looked for an excuse. That`s sort of the argument.

You featured. twice in it. We`ve sort of spliced together your appearances. I want to play it for you and get your reaction. Take a listen.


TLAIB: Because we`re going to go in there when in peace, the mother (BLEEP).

In here, at an impeachment rally, and we are ready to impeach the --


HAYES: What`s your reaction to that?

TLAIB: I mean, I was right. This is a person that`s been lawless. Not only that, it`s the -- it`s a crooked billionaire running his businesses out of the White House. He was absolutely committed impeachable offenses. You know, this primary impeachment that you see before the Senate right now to convict him is for the violence on January 6th.

But for many of us, especially here in my district, we have saw that it was extremely corrupted that they were putting the Trump Organization first. They were putting the for-profit organization, his businesses before the people`s business and making sure that, again, folks, we`re staying at the Trump hotel to do all this.

And again, many of us didn`t wait for him to bribe a foreign government, nor did we wait in the 13th congressional district for a white supremacy attack on our capital. We knew what he was about, and we called him out on it from day one.

HAYES: What is the sentiment in the -- in the House caucus? Obviously, this now moves. This is in the Senate. Your colleagues are working there. But there is a lot that has to happen right now with COVID relief and the like in the House, and also the aftermath of that attack with a majority of your Republican colleagues who voted to overturn the election. What are the things like over in the -- in the other chamber right now?

TLAIB: I mean, we`ve been extremely busy. I mean, I represent the third poorest congressional district. I`ve been very much active in Financial Services Committee, House Oversight Committee, working even just today meeting with staff on Ways and Means Committee, talking about how do we make sure that this relief hits the ground quickly.

And many of us have been laser-focused on that, but as well as trying to protect our democracy and making sure that we hold the forever impeached president accountable. We can`t look away. You know, yes, he`s not president right now. But you know, Chris, this again sets a dangerous precedent if we don`t hold them accountable.

It`s like a doctor that may be harmed a patient. If the person doesn`t become a doctor anymore, it doesn`t mean that we can`t allow the person to have recourse and hold that doctor accountable. It`s the same thing with the President. I don`t want to see this happen again. And we need to use every resource possible and convict this president, again, for the violence that he caused.

People were hurt, they were harmed. People die because of his insightfulness and continued conspiracy that led to the violence of January 6th. But know this, I don`t think there`s anybody as special as myself and others that aren`t as well, again, laser-focused on making sure that we get COVID relief to our families.

They are so extremely tired of waiting for vaccination distribution to be equitable, to get direct payments of $2,000. And we`re still fighting to make sure that that`s reoccurring monthly payments. So, just know that relief is coming. We have not stopped that work. But at the same time, we`re not going to hold back in again, holding a president accountable.

HAYES: Final question for you, because you mentioned this, and it strikes me as important which is that the people in your district were the subject of the plot in some ways. I mean, multiple levers of Republican Party, the majority of Republican colleagues, the President wanted essentially to throw their votes out. That was -- they voted for president and they wanted to vote to overturn it. And that remains the case. No one has apologized for that as far as I can tell.

TLAIB: No. And the racist tone. I mean, it was very obvious they were focused on Black and Brown communities, Black and Brown precincts. They intentionally mentioned the city of Detroit, even though if you look at some of the audits that have been done, we have done far better than any other communities outside of the city.

And so, it is so important to realize that they were using, again, that white supremist kind of rhetoric to feed into the conspiracy theories, again, that fed into the violence that you saw. I mean, these are people that came with a Confederate flag, Chris.


TLAIB: They, you know, tore up this beautiful tribute outside of Leader Hoyer`s office of John Lewis. I mean, these are people, again, that we`re listening to this forever impeached president and telling them yes, target the Black and Brown votes. Understand there`s fraud there. And again, it`s so important that we push back against that.

My residents don`t deserve anything less than holding this president accountable for the violence that he caused on January 6th and the harm and pain that he caused in trying to jeopardize our democracy in this country.

HAYES: Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib of the great city of Detroit, thank you for your time tonight. That is ALL IN on this Tuesday evening. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. good evening, Rachel.