Summary:
Among Republicans, Marjorie Taylor Greene has higher net favorability than Liz Cheney. Earlier today, Joe Biden made it clear that his COVID relief bill is too important to wait for Republican support. President Biden said that he was cutting off support for the Saudi-led military campaign in Yemen which began in 2015. Conservative media tries to smear Rep. Ocasio-Cortez after she describes her experience on January 6th. New York Times leaked phone data that has been used to locate Capitol insurrectionists.
Transcript:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s now out of the actors` unit. That`s too bad. I was positive he was going to be the next James Bond.
JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN: Trump is out of work and just quit his union. Even worse, now if he wants medical coverage, he`s got to sign up for ObamaCare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: And that is -- that is tonight`s REIDOUT. Happy Friday. "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEHDI HASAN, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): Tonight, on ALL IN.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of folks are losing hope. So, I`m going to act. I`m going to act fast.
HASAN: Biden says get on board or get out of the way of COVID relief as the new Greene Party stakes its claim.
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): There were 10 that voted for impeachment against President Trump and they definitely paid the price. They heard from Republican voters.
HASAN: Tonight, why the Republican civil war is over no matter what Senator Ben Sasse says. Then, top White House Economist Jared Bernstein on why democrats are ignoring experts who blew the response to the last recovery.
Plus, is Biden`s new progressive foreign policy here to stay? And as the so-called bullhorn lady is taken into police custody, new reporting on the cell phone surveillance helping to track down insurrectionists. ALL IN starts now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN (on camera): Good evening from Washington D.C. I`m Mehdi Hasan in for Chris Hayes. This is the state of the Republican Party in the year 2021. The former president, having lost and then inspired an insurrection, is facing his second impeachment trial next week. And his successor, President Joe Biden, is telling CBS News Tonight that his predecessor cannot be trusted with the nation`s top-secret intelligence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, let me ask you then something that you do have oversight of as President. Should former President Trump still receive intelligence briefings?
BIDEN: I think not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why not?
BIDEN: Because of erratic behavior related to the insurrection.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, you`ve called him an existential threat. You`ve called him dangerous. You`ve called him reckless.
BIDEN: Yes, and I believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s your worst fear if he continues to get these intelligence briefings?
BIDEN: I`d rather not speculate out loud. I just think that there is no need for him to have that intelligence briefing. What value is giving him an intelligence briefing? What impact does he have at all other than the fact he might slip and say something?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN: It would normally be crazy to say that a former president can`t be trusted with the nation`s secrets. But these are not normal times. And in this case, the former president just incited an insurrection against his own country. And while Trump skews and plots against his enemies, the next generation of Republican leadership is making clear that they remain his loyal foot soldiers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREENE: I`ve always supported him. And I want to tell you, Republican voters, support him still. The party is his. It doesn`t belong to anybody else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN: There has been this talk about a civil war within the Republican Party with Trump and people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz and Ted Cruz on one side. And on the other side, people like this Cheney and Senator Ben Sasse who stand for the more traditional GOP.
But talk of such a war implies that there are two more or less equal sides. And this isn`t that kind of war. It`s more of a route. The Trumpists won. A poll out yesterday found that Greene has a net favorability among Republicans of plus 10. Republicans generally like her. Liz Cheney`s net favorability is negative 28. She`s basically a pariah within her own party.
Cheney is an avatar in some ways of the pre-Trump Republican Party, which most of the GOP base no longer want anything to do with. 64 percent of GOP voters said in another new poll that if Trump were to start a new political party, they`d likely join it.
This is one of the oldest political parties in the western democratic world, the party of Lincoln of Eisenhower. But most GOP voters don`t have any use for it anymore. They`re not tied to the Republican Party; they are tied to Donald Trump and to the politics of defiance and grievance that he represents.
There is no governing philosophy any longer, no faints towards small government or supply-side economics or any of that. It`s just own the libs and fight cancel culture. It`s why people like Marjorie Taylor Greene don`t actually care if they get kicked off congressional committees, which is where the work of government is supposed to take place.
And if there`s anything we learned from four years of Trump, it`s that this simply is not a governance project of any kind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREENE: I`m fine with being kicked off of my committees because it`d be a waste of my time. So, now I have a lot of free time on my hands which means I can talk to a whole lot more people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN: And that`s all she wants to do. Like Trump before her, she`s a professional troll who happens to have been elected to a job in government that she doesn`t particularly want to do. And let`s talk about the other side in this so-called Republican civil war.
It`s true that Liz Cheney survived a vote to remove her from leadership after she voted to impeach Trump. But it was a secret ballot. Republicans know that base doesn`t like her, so they made sure no one knew who voted for her. That`s not exactly a vote of confidence.
And the very next day, Cheney herself voted against kicking Greene of committees in a vote that was not secret. She knows which way the wind is blowing. In the end, only 11 House Republicans voted to kick Greene off her committees, and only 10 of them voted to impeach Trump for inciting a violent insurrection. Roughly 95 percent of the GOP House Caucus sided with Trump and Greene. That`s who the party belongs to. And that`s true at the state level, especially.
In Arizona where Republicans just lost the presidential race for the first time since 1996, the state GOP responded by censoring Cindy McCain, widow of John, and other top Republicans at odds with Trump. In Illinois, GOP Congressman Adam Kinzinger was censured by Republicans in his county for voting to impeach Trump. And in Nebraska GOP Senator Ben Sasse is also facing a possible censure from his state Party Central Committee which prompted this response from Sasse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): The anger has always been simply about me not bending the knee to one guy. I still believe as you used to, that politics isn`t about the weird worship of one dude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN: Let`s talk about Ben Sasse for a moment because he is a reflection and embodiment of so much of what`s wrong with his party. Today is the one- year anniversary of the acquittal of Donald J. Trump in his first Senate impeachment trial. You remember that. And you know who voted to acquit with the exception of Mitt Romney? Every single Republican senator, including one Ben Sasse.
The Nebraska senator wants credit for having sometimes been critical of Trump, but he went suspiciously silent, even quitting Twitter ahead of his own reelection in a successful pursuit of a complete and total endorsement from the president.
And then he voted to acquit a year ago today, when he actually had a chance to power to do something to stop the disastrous Trump presidency. But now that Trump is gone, Sasse wants us to think he`s a bold truth-teller. Some of us have longer memories than just yesterday, Senator.
Sasse has more in common with Marjorie Taylor Greene than he might like to admit. They both hitched their wagon to Trump, because they knew that is the way Republicans win now. And now, the party of Trump lurches forward without a governing agenda or any animating principle, outside of culture wars and bashing Democrats as socialists while worshipping at the altar of the twice impeached former president. And that`s exactly how Marjorie Taylor Greene wants it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREENE: Well, there were 10 that voted for impeachment against President Trump and they definitely paid the price they heard from Republican voters. The base is loyal to President Trump and the base has been very loyal to me and they`ve shown me that.
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HASAN: Democratic Congresswoman Nikema Williams of Georgia introduced a resolution this week to censure Marjorie Taylor Greene and call for her resignation. She joins me now. Congresswoman, thanks for joining me on the show.
Your Republican colleagues have supported Marjorie Taylor Greene even as we learn more and more about that violence that she supported, her love of lies, conspiracy theories, racism. How do you work with the Republican Party that`s made it clear they value conspiracy theories over evidence, fiction over fact time and again? Should Democrats even bother trying?
REP. NIKEMA WILLIAMS (D-GA): Mehdi, I am here to do the work of the people. And I keep hearing people on the other side saying that Democrats should be working towards unity. And people ask me about working in a bipartisan fashion. And I tell them all the time, I use a quote by James Baldwin that I can work with anyone as long as our disagreement is not based in my oppression and the denial of my humanity as a person.
And there are some people on the other side of the aisle, Mehdi, who truly do not believe that me as a black woman should be serving in this body. And so, I know that Democrats still have the majority. It doesn`t matter how slim the margin, a majority of the majority. And we`re moving forward with doing the work of the people.
We held Marjorie Greene accountable yesterday. And on the same day, I was in my House Financial Services Committee hearing talking about how do we extend the eviction moratorium, how do we get people the support that they need on the ground, because that`s what I`m here for, to help my people. And people in her district are hurting too. So, I -- it`s baffling to me that she would say committee work is not important.
HASAN: I mean, you mentioned her district. I`m listening to you speak. You are both Congresswoman from Georgia. You are a woman of color elected from the Democratic Party in Georgia. You are quoting James Baldwin to me on television. And he or she is elected from Georgia quoting Q and all sorts of other freaks from the internet. I mean, it`s pretty indicative, sadly, of the weird divide in our country right now.
WILLIAMS: I mean, Georgia is a tale of two states right now. And what we saw in our very historic elections with our two new U.S. Senators is that we`re a battleground state. And that means that we are 50-50. And we have to fight for every vote. And we have to continue to tell our story.
But what it also showed us is that Georgia is ready for big change. And we sent a Black man and a Jewish man to represent the deep south in the United States Senate. And so, Marjorie Taylor Greene represents her party, but I am the future of this country, Black people, Jewish people. We`re both building multiracial coalitions to make sure that everyone in this country is represented.
HASAN: Do you feel safe in the hallways of Congress right now as a woman of color?
WILLIAMS: So, I remember the day of the insurrection. My husband dropped me off at the -- at the Capitol because he was still here in D.C. with me after my swearing-in. And I told him that day that once I got inside of the building, I would be safe. And that just turned out that it was -- couldn`t have been further from the truth.
And now, I don`t like to walk places alone. Today, I went for a vote and the Capitol Police that are standing right outside of the chamber, they joked because my chief of staff wasn`t standing right there with me. They`re like, where is she? I know she doesn`t let you go anywhere alone because it is still not safe.
I have 24-hour security at my home just to keep my family safe. I have a five-year-old son who asked me, mommy, can the bad guys climb the building to get into my apartment because he saw people scaling the walls at the United States Capitol. So, we still have a long way to go to make sure that every member of this body is safe when we`re here doing the work of the people.
HASAN: That is truly depressing to hear you talk about your security and your child like that. And just -- it`s depressing. One last quick question before I let you go. Joe Biden is saying tonight on CBS News that Donald Trump should no longer get intelligence briefings. Do you agree with that? Do you believe Donald Trump is a threat to national security?
WILLIAMS: Donald Trump is absolutely a threat to national security. I voted to impeach him. He should never be allowed to run for office again. And I also found a resolution saying that he shouldn`t be allowed back on Capitol Hill because I don`t want him hosting rallies, hosting events. He still controls the Republican Party. He controls a large swath of people across this country who want to incite violence on elected leaders in this country. So, he absolutely should not be getting intelligence briefings.
HASAN: I mean, he never read them anyway, so I suppose it won`t be a big loss for him. Congresswoman Nikema Williams, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.
WILLIAMS: That`s true. Thank you.
HASAN: Brendan Buck served as the press secretary for former Republican Speaker John Boehner, as well as the chief communications adviser for former Republican Speaker Paul Ryan. Brandon, thanks for coming on the show. Trump has been out of office for more than two weeks. We were told that once he`s gone, he would lose his grip on the GOP. He hasn`t lost his grip on the GOP. They are still beholden to him on every level. How come?
BRENDAN BUCK, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY FOR SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER: I know who told you that. I certainly wasn`t expecting that. Look, it was never going to be a clean break. Look, I think there are still a lot of members of Congress, despite what they say publicly, who don`t care for him. But their voters still passionately do. And so, it`s going to be a process.
Look, you`ve made clear that you think that this Republican civil war is over. I don`t necessarily disagree that the Trumpists have won the war. But nothing lasts forever in politics. And it`s silly to suggest that nothing is to be forever. There are still thoughtful, principled people in Congress. And I think it`s wrong to equate a Ben Sasse with a Marjorie Taylor Greene.
Ben Sasse has a worldview. He has a vision. He has policy principles that are firmly held, and he believes it. He goes to Washington to try to get things done. Now, when we say that he is just like Marjorie Taylor Greene, I think that`s ridiculous. Marjorie Taylor Greene has no interest in legislating.
HASAN: Just to be clear.
BUCK: Go ahead.
HASAN: Just to be clear, just to be clear, just to clear. When I said a moment ago that he is the same as Marjorie Taylor Greene, I was referring specifically to linking his career to Donald Trump. It`s undeniable that he stopped criticizing Trump in order to get Trump`s endorsement. It`s undeniable that a year ago today, he did not vote to impeach or convict Donald Trump.
That was the point I made. Of course, he`s not like Marjorie Taylor Greene. Who is like Marjorie Taylor Greene? I can`t think of any human being right now. So, let me -- let me ask you this, Brendan.
BUCK: (INAUDIBLE)
HASAN: You worked for John Boehner -- you worked for John Boehner and Paul Ryan "establishment Republicans." But didn`t this all start on their watch, the Birtherism, the conspiracies, the obsession with owning the libs? People would argue that Trump and Greene are symptoms of a broken policy, not the cause of it.
BUCK: Oh, I think it would go back even further back. Yes, look, one of the reasons that Donald Trump was able to overtake the Republican Party was that so many Republican voters hate the Republican Party because for 20 years, it has been currency to lie to Republican voters and mislead them and attack.
Basically, our leadership, you know, whether you`re talking about talk radio, blogs, certain cable channels. When we were in the Speaker`s office, that was -- that was currency to attack us and basically say, you`re just not fighting hard enough. And that is the ethos right now.
Ted Cruz told us, if we fought a little harder, we could repeal ObamaCare. You know, Donald Trump said, if we just thought a little harder, we could fun building a wall. And if enough voters hear that over and over again, and see that you`re not delivering when they`re told that you just fought harder, they`re going to hate you.
And so, one of the challenges of being a Republican establishment leader is that your base dislikes you so much. And they`ve been fed so many lies for so long. I wish when we were there, we push back a little more perhaps on a Ted Cruz, who was just blatantly lying to people about what was possible, and he knew it wasn`t possible. So yes, there`s a lot of things we probably could have done better to push back on this. And -- yes.
HASAN: So, Chris Hayes, who`s show this is, who I`m sitting in for, he often makes the point that Republicans in Congress traded 400,000 dead for tax cuts and judges. Your former boss, Paul Ryan began by accusing Donald Trump of textbook racism, I remember. And then once he was in office, he was saying, well, I`m not reading his tweets, and he was praising the tax cuts. Isn`t that the problem?
BUCK: No, I think that is -- that is your narrative of how we handled it. For all -- for all of your viewers who think that we did everything Donald Trump wanted to do, I promise you there are plenty of Trump voters who think that Paul Ryan was getting in the way of everything he wanted to do.
The reality is that we worked with him when we could. We spoke out when we felt we needed to. And we got some things done that we think are good policy. Look, Donald Trump didn`t become president --
HASAN: When did Paul Ryan speak out against Donald Trump once he was president? When did Paul Ryan speak out against Donald Trump?
BUCK: Countless times, during child separation, during pardons. When he would attack your colleague Mika Brzezinski, I remember, he made a vile attack and he stood up for her. Countless times that people just sort of overlook and that`s fine. Ask any Trump voter whether they think that that Paul Ryan was a Donald Trump ally. The point is, Donald Trump wasn`t --
HASAN: Well, I think -- I think , Brendan -- I think Brendan -- when we`re out of time, but I think we could both agree that for both of us, a Trump voter is not the metric of our factual reality. But I appreciate you coming on and making the counter-argument. Brendan Buck, thank you so much for your time.
Next, more news from the President on what parts of the COVID relief bill he`s willing to negotiate on. Top White House economic adviser Jared Bernstein on that, and how it seems like Democrats may have learned, yes, learned from the mistakes of 2009. That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HASAN: As the Republican Party struggles to stand for anything other than Trump, the Democrats under President Joe Biden are remarkably demonstrating a newfound confidence, unity, and dare I say, sense of purpose. Earlier today, Joe Biden made it clear that his COVID relief bill is too important to wait for Republican support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I`m going to act fast. I`d like to be -- I`d like to be doing it with the support of Republicans. I`ve met with Republicans. There are some really fine people, want to get something done, but they`re just not willing to go as far as I think we have to go. I`ve told both Republicans and Democrats, that`s my preference to work together.
But if I have to choose between getting help right now to Americans who are hurting so badly and getting bogged down in a lengthy negotiation or compromising on a bill that`s up to the crisis, that`s an easy choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN: Wow. To be honest, I was worried Biden would cave to the bad faith bipartisan mob, but he hasn`t so far. Even West Virginia`s Joe Manchin, who has presented himself at times as the single biggest obstacle to Biden`s more progressive economic agenda, praise the President`s approach and revealed his thinking
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): The breath of fresh air is having President Biden come on and put in some direction, and some supervision and leadership. It`s been wonderful. So, we know where we`re going now. He said, basically, I don`t want to go down the path we went down in 209 when we negotiated for eight months and still didn`t have a product and had to do what we do on what they`re doing now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN: That new can do, defiant attitude from Democrats has not sat well with, well, the Republican Party, especially Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who just a few days ago, was complaining about Democrats using some of his old tricks against him.
Former Clinton treasury secretary and Obama`s economic adviser Larry Summers penned an op-ed arguing the Biden rescue package might actually be too big. But several top Democrats from across the ideological spectrum jumped in to defend the plan, including Hawaii Senator Brian Schatz, who tweeted "Why would we listen to the economist who admits he went too small last time if he`s warning us to go small again?" Hear, hear.
Speaking at a press conference earlier today, Jared Bernstein, a member of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, dismissed some as his claim saying the risks of doing too little are far greater than the risk of going big. And Jared Bernstein joins me now.
Jared, thanks so much for coming on the show. Joe Biden said today, better to be big than go small. Where is that coming from? Is that coming from being burned in the past during the Recovery Act and Affordable Care Act negotiations?
JARED BERNSTEIN, MEMBER, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Well, it`s certainly coming from a lifetime of lessons in politics. And yes, the -- when he was vice president, he was the implementer-in-chief of the Recovery Act, so he`s been to this rodeo before. I think probably the biggest motivator, though, you know, every economic shock, recession, recovery, they`re all different. And I think what`s really motivating the president is the steep, steep cost of inaction against this dual crisis of the pandemic and the economic damage that it`s done.
Damage that`s not been felt equitably across this economy, damage, and pain, and lasting hardship particularly among those in the bottom half of the income scale. People have borne the brunt of both the health and the economic crisis. These costs include, of course, job loss.
We learned this morning that we added 49,000 jobs last month. In the private sector, only 6000. If you average over the past three months, the job creation machine has essentially stalled unemployment rates for Black and Hispanics around nine percent. That`s about 10 million unemployed people 40 percent of whom had been unemployed for at least six months.
This risks a scarring effect that is people stuck out of the labor market as we continue to underperform and not get our arms around the virus. The American rescue plan does that. It`s of a magnitude to meet the magnitude of the crisis.
HASAN: Yes, and just hearing those unemployment numbers from you and then thinking about Larry Summers saying we`re going to overheat the economy is just bizarre. The President said to Norah O`Donnell tonight on CBS News that he`s prepared to negotiate on who the for $1400 checks go to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The big question is who gets that?
BIDEN: That`s right.
O`DONNELL: Is it someone who makes up to $50,000, or is it someone who makes up to $75,000?
BIDEN: I`m prepared to negotiate that. But here`s the deal. Middle-class folks need help. But you don`t need to get any help to someone making 300,000 bucks or 250. So, it`s somewhere between an individual making up to 75 and phasing out, and a couple making up 150 and phasing out. But again, I`m wide open on what that is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN: Jared, you`ve already gotten from $2,000 check out the door to $1,400 checks added to the existing $600 checks, which has upset a few people. And now you might be changing who gets it, which income level. Aren`t you worried the people might accuse you of betrayal? Senator Jeff Merkley saying today, you could lose those two GA seats that you won if you don`t keep your promise on the checks.
BERNSTEIN: Well, first of all, the President has consistently, from day one, been locked in on $2,000 checks, meaning $600 from the December plan and $1,400 from the American rescue. But he has never wavered one iota on that commitment. Now, there have been lots of discussions and again, in the spirit of good faith compromise, the President has been involved in these discussions, and not just with Republicans, but with Democrats as well, about these parameters.
And I think there is a reasonable argument, if you heard the President just say that someone who had 250 or $300,000 doesn`t need a check. So, that speaks to the phase-out. And perhaps a faster phase out would be part of this ongoing compromise. That`s yet to be seen.
But I guarantee you, the president is locked in on $2,000, meaning $600 from December and $1,400 from the American Rescue Plan, and you heard him say that tonight.
HASAN: Yes, it`s just depends whether phase-out is. 250,000 is one thing. But if we`re talking about 50, 75, those of people who are hurting as well as Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez and many have pointed out.
BERNSTEIN: Well, I think we just heard the President say -- I think we just heard the President say exactly that.
HASAN: OK, good. And we also had the president tonight talk about the $15.00 minimum wage, which is in the current relief bill, about whether it makes it into the final package. The president is saying it might get cut out during negotiations. Isn`t it depressing to see not just Republicans, but Democrats like Joe Manchin of West Virginia saying $15.00 as a wage is too high in his state? I mean, that`s depressing, isn`t it?
BERNSTEIN: Look, I mean, Joe Manchin is a member of our caucus, a member of the Democratic Caucus, a member of the Senate who has consistently been in these conversations in negotiations with the White House and the President. And you heard him a few minutes ago on your show of applauding the seriousness and the collaborative style with which we`re approaching this.
And by the way, that`s kind of in Joe Biden`s bloodstream. That`s one of the things he likes to do. And what I heard him say tonight on your show, and he said it before, is that while he is perfectly happy to have these discussions and exchange of views with people, what he`s not going to do is slow down the relief to the American people and the efforts that are so essential to both control the virus and distribute the vaccine and finally, deal a knockout blow to COVID-19. That`s the key.
Now, the minimum wage is something we`re going to be working with Democrats on until we get to where we believe it should be. And for Joe Biden, that`s $15.00 an hour.
HASAN: That is good to hear. Jared Bernstein, we`re out of time. We`ll have to leave it there. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.
BERNSTEIN: Thank you.
HASAN: Next, President Biden making big news on the foreign policy front as well. We`ll talk about that next. And new reporting on the cell phone tracking that`s helping to locate Capitol insurrection is including one iconic figure from the siege who`s now in police custody. That story ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Defense Secretary Austin will be leading a global posture review of our forces so that our military footprint is appropriately aligned with our foreign policy and national security priorities. We`re also stepping up our diplomacy to end the war in Yemen. A war which is created humanitarian and strategic catastrophe. This war has to end. And to underscore our commitment, we are ending all American support for offensive operations in the war in Yemen, including relevant arm sales.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The Biden administration seems to be keeping its campaign promise to move quickly to fix U.S. foreign policy and reverse the way Donald Trump handled so many things. Yesterday in a speech at the State Department, President Biden said that he was cutting off support for the Saudi-led military campaign in Yemen which began in 2015 under an Obama administration that included Vice President Joe Biden.
As of last December, more than 127,000 people have reportedly been killed in that war. Today, the by the administration seem to turn its focus towards another Mideast challenge, the Iran nuclear deal which Trump unilaterally pulled out of in 2018. Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California is a member of the House Armed Services Committee, and introduced the bill back in 2017 to end U.S. support for the Saudi-led war in Yemen. He joins me now.
Congressman, it`s a big win for you and for progressive anti-war activists in this country, although Joe Biden says he`s ending all American support for offensive operations. Clearly, a good thing, but how far does that go? The Saudis will just say that all their actions in Yemen are defensive.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, Mehdi, it`s a big win for the activists around the country that you have. An American president is saying we`re going to end this war and not provide intelligence support to the Saudis, not provide any support for the Saudi bombing campaign.
Here`s the important point, Mehdi. It`s the Congress and the United States that gets to decide what an offensive campaign is. So, if the Saudis come and say they`re going to bomb some Yemenis village because they fear that that`s a threat to them, we`re going to say no way. And you have my word that this Congress is going to make sure that the Saudis don`t get away with that.
HASAN: Well, that`s good to hear. Tonight, it`s being reported that the Biden ministration is reversing Trump`s last-minute designation of the Houthi rebels in Yemen as a foreign terrorist organization, which many argue impacted on the humanitarian situation on the ground. What do you say to hawks in D.C., in Tel Aviv, in Riyadh who say this is Biden being soft on Iran because Iran backs the Houthis?
KHANNA: I say, look at Trump`s policy on Iran. Can we have a fat base assessment? When Donald Trump took office, Iran had 100 kilograms of enriched uranium. When he left, they had 2.5 trillion enrich uranium, 25 times more. So, Trump`s maximum pressure campaign from designation against the Houthis did absolutely nothing to deter the Iranians.
But this is about allowing food and medicine and commercial activity into the Yemenis that we have Robert Malley now to get us back into the Iranian agreement, which is going to finally deter the Iranian nuclear expansion.
HASAN: Yes. And Robert Malley was someone the hawks didn`t like either. But Biden went ahead and appointed him. Kudos to the President. Let`s talk about the Iran nuclear deal, the JCPOA. Getting back into that deal feels kind of like a game of geopolitical chicken right now. Because Biden says, Iran has to do it first, comply with the terms, then America will join. Iran says, hold on, you guys pulled out first. You get back in first, then we`ll join.
It feels like a rather good deal is being held off because of this pointless you first, you first. Why can`t they just join together at the same time?
KHANNA: I agree with you. Well, we should get rid of this Trump`s sanctions. And here`s the point. If Iran doesn`t comply, we can always snap them right back. So, there`s no loss in removing those sanctions and having Iran comply. Iran otherwise is going to continue to build a nuclear capacity.
And at some point, data has to matter. This is not just a matter of opinion. Iran developed the greatest uranium enrichment during the Trump administration. It`s not just that the maximum campaign was morally bad. It was a blunder, a strategic blunder, lift the sanctions have them back in, and that`s the best way to curb their nuclear ambition.
HASAN: Yes. Trump`s strategic blunders fills up a lot of pages. A lot of the problems in the Middle East, Congressman, revolve around three countries, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Iran. Two of them allies, one of them an adversary. Do you see Biden radically resetting relations with any of them?
KHANNA: I think he`s going to radically reset relations with all of them. He`s going to make it clear to the Saudis that the offensive war in Yemen is going to end and that their tactics of human rights abuses are not going to be tolerated. They have to reset their priorities to have a relationship with the United States.
With Iran, he`s going to make it clear that they have to comply with the JPOA and inspections. They can`t have nuclear ambitions, but that we want to reset that relationship. And with Israel, he`s going to make it clear that Israel is an ally and always has been an ally of the United States. But they have to recognize Palestinian statehood. They can`t be having new settlement. They can`t be burning down Palestinian villages. Human rights are going to matter. We`re going to have a human rights focused foreign policy.
HASAN: I hope so, Congressman. I really do hope so. But we`re out of time now. We`ll have to leave it there. Thank you so much, Congressman Ro Khanna for your time tonight.
KHANNA: Thank you. Thank you.
HASAN: Ahead, as Republicans attempt to downplay the deadly attack on the Capitol, the arrests continue to stack up. And tonight, one of the riots scenes shouting orders is in custody. That story and more ahead.
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REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): And so, we go into her office. And I`m at like a 10, right. Like, I am at a full 10 fighter flight. I thought I was going to die like 10 minutes ago, then thought I was going to die again because I have to tell you, we`re outside in this hallway alone. I`m banging on this door. And I`m thinking -- and I`m fully expecting one of these insurrectionists to turn the corner with a gun and that it would be over again.
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HASAN: Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez described her terrifying experience at the Capitol on January the sixth in that Instagram live video earlier this week. And ever since, conservative media has been trying to smear her as a liar, claiming she exaggerated how much danger she was in because she was not at the Capitol building which the rioters breached, but in a nearby office building on the Capitol Complex.
And now, her Republican colleague Nancy Mays of South Carolina has joined the bad faith attacks on AOC`s credibility, tweeting yesterday, "I`m two doors down from AOC and no insurrectionist stormed out our hallway," along with a Fox news article about AOC facing backlash for her account of the event. Nancy Mays piled on even further in an interview on Fox News that afternoon.
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REP. NANCY MAYS (R-SC): Not at one moment during the events of January 6th that any rioter or any insurrectionists come down the hallways where offices are located. I initially, you know, took the task the press for making these claims, taking these claims to apocalyptic levels. And all I did was state the facts.
I live in reality. I deal with facts and not fiction. And I said that there were no rioters in the hallways of Cannon. I`m two doors down from you. And she lost it today. She doesn`t deal in reality. She hasn`t been doing that today. I think it`s really important that we take members to task when they`re not being honest with the American people.
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HASAN: Hold on. First off, AOC never claimed they were insurrections in her hallway. But more importantly, in terms of the threat, Nancy Mays was there that day too. So, what did she say about it at the time? Well, in the midst of the riots on January the sixth, she tweeted about "evacuating her office in Cannon due to a nearby threat, a nearby threat." The next morning she described the danger she felt she was in.
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MAYS: At one point, when we were evacuated because of the bomb threat, the pipe bomb threat, I was stuck in a narrow tunnel with 100 other people, staff and members of Congress. It was a very dangerous situation; lives were put at risk. And my message to Americans today is it was a very sad day in our nation`s history.
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HASAN: It was a very dangerous situation. Mays gave more details to a South Carolina newspaper that day saying she barricaded herself inside her office during the attack fearing that Trump supporters she had seen staying at a hotel might target her after she voted to certify the electoral votes. Mays said she decided to sleep in an office that night.
In fact, she was so fearful in the wake of the attack that she told a local news station she intended to carry a gun on Capitol Hill saying, "I will not be put in that situation again." So to be clear, Nancy Mays wants to carry a gun and barricaded herself in her office. But AOC is lying about exaggerating the threat.
These people are shameful. We all know the attackers were spread out across the complex. We`ve seen the images, and the feds are seeing data like this. Those dots are the cell phone locations of insurrectionists inside the Capitol building on January the sixth. It`s part of a remarkable set of data being used to identify individuals in the mob with the help of Big Brother, but also raising questions therefore about our surveillance state. We`ll examine that next.
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HASAN: The ongoing pursuit of insurrectionists who participated in the Capitol riot continues across the country, including in Pennsylvania where the home of this woman, Rachel Marie Powell, better known as the Bullhorn Lady was raided by the FBI yesterday.
Powell surrendered to agents because according to her attorney, she wanted to turn herself and to face these charges and address them head-on. According to the criminal complaint filed this morning, she was the woman seen on video speaking through a bullhorn and giving very detailed instructions about the layout of the Capitol building.
She can be heard stating that she had just been inside the Capitol building in the adjacent room, and that they should coordinate together if you`re going to take this building. She also noticed that they have another window to break. One bit of evidence used against her was her cell phone pinging towers in Washington D.C. on January the sixth. And that small bit of information buried in this complaint is part of a larger story.
Today, a piece in The New York Times by Charlie Warzel and stuart a. Thompson features a leaked dataset showing location data from phones present at and near the riot that day. Each blip you see there is a cell phone pinging which you can watch move from the rally near the White House down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol building in the time leading to the riot.
And while this data is not tied directly to names or phone numbers, the time is found that unique identifiers can be used to follow phones from the rally to the Capitol, and at times right back to the owners` front door across the country.
On the one hand, it is a very good thing that authorities are finding arresting and charging the insurrectionists. On the other hand, shouldn`t we all be worried about the power of Big Brother of surveillance via smartphone? Charlie Warzel, opinion columnist at the New York Times and one of the authors of that piece joins me now.
Charlie, how did you get this data set, and how did the person who gave it to you have access to this detail level of personal information, personal data?
CHARLIE WARZEL, OPINION COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I`m not going to reveal my source, but they provided it to us because they had access to it and they were quite worried about this. This is an alarming thing. They also -- they also shared it because they were curious about the events of January 6th. And they said something, you know, pretty chilling which we put in the piece, which was it shows how conflicted they were.
They said that, you know, they could be -- they could have just posted this to the internet. They could have posted it let people, you know, go and deanonymize it like we did. And then, you know, off to the races for a vigilante justice of any kind. And, you know, that kind of power is really staggering.
But these companies just collect this data. This is out there and databases being bought and sold and traded, and it`s all serving an advertising industry.
HASAN: Yes, and it`s -- I mean, I urge everyone to read your piece. It`s fascinating, very granular stuff. And Charlie you write in that piece. "About 40 percent of the phones tracked near the rally stage on the National Mall during the speeches were also found in around the Capitol during the siege, a clear link between those who listened to the president and his allies, and then marched on the building.
That totally undermines the Trump team`s legal defense next week, doesn`t it? This idea that the people who attacked the Capitol had nothing to do with Trump or his speech. The data says otherwise.
WARZEL: The data does say otherwise. And, you know, this is part of the issue here. This is the quandary. It is a phenomenal reporting tool. It helps tell the story of that day, like you said, in granular detail. It is -- it is really helpful to see a clear link between the President`s speech and what we saw happen at the Capitol building. It is also, you know, mass surveillance being conducted on a lot of (INAUDIBLE).
HASAN: Yes, and it`s just -- you know, we laughed at some of these insurrectionists who posted selfies and posted to Facebook about where they were in the building, and it helped them get arrested. But the reality is, even if they hadn`t done that, there is a way of finding you via your pings, apparently.
You say in your piece -- you issued this warning, when you say, "The location tracking industry exists because those in power allow it to exist. Plenty of Americans remain oblivious to this collection through no fault of their own. But many others understand what`s happening and allow it anyway. They feel powerless to stop it or simply seduced by the conveniences afforded in the trade off."
So, given all of that quite apt summary there, what can be done about this, Charlie?
WARZEL: Well, pressuring lawmakers to do something about this. You know, we -- actually, this is the second data set that we have received. We have one in 2019. We wrote a seven-part series on it. We had lawmakers from Josh Hawley to Elizabeth Warren tell us this was a matter of national security. This was a huge worry. And this was, you know, being perpetrated on innocent American citizens.
And, you know, we`ve had a pandemic, but nothing has happened. And this is now another instance of this. And, you know, this could be collected on people protesting police violence, and you know, possibly has been throughout the last summer. This is a real issue for freedom of expression to gather. It`s a real worry.
HASAN: Yes. It`s a very worry because, you know, I asked at the beginning, like, how does your source have this access. I mean, what would it take for a business or a government or an individual person to get hold of this reverse-engineerable data.
WARZEL: Well, the United States government, according to reports from the Wall Street Journal, buy this. They buy it as a commercial entity, which is just like what, you know, advertising ad tech companies can do. And then it gets sliced and diced and indexed. And there are, you know, there are honestly companies that help deanonymize this data, essentially. They dress it up in a whole bunch of different terms, but that`s what they`re doing. They`re deanonymizing it so that they can serve you targeted ads, banner ads. And, you know, it`s all kinds of junk. And, you know, we`re all being tracked because of it.
HAYES: It`s this weird paradox in this country where you have people, especially the kind of people who marched on the Capitol, support Donald Trump who go on and on about the First Amendment, the Second Amendment, our freedoms, but are perfectly fine with being surveilled 24/7 by the smartphone in their pocket.
WARZEL: You know, it`s very fascinating given a lot of politics of the crowd that was at the Capitol Building, right? These are people who, you know, some of them QAnon believers believe that Bill Gates is going to put a microchip in their vaccine and won`t take a vaccine. And meanwhile, they`re carrying, you know, the most advanced surveillance device known in their hand and in their pocket, keeping it on, potentially, you know, committing federal crimes. And it`s just -- it`s very hard to square that.
And, you know, contact tracing throughout the coronavirus pandemic could have been done with some of this technology, you know, to save countless lives. It`s been happening in Southeast Asia to great effect. But, you know, we all said no. But we`re fine with the targeted ads. That seems to be the thing that we`re OK with, the (INAUDIBLE).
HASAN: Yes. They did it in South Korea and I remember people say, wow, that`s so -- we can`t do that here. That would be a restriction on freedom. And yet -- and yet, one last quick question less than 30 seconds to go. Is it going to get worse before it gets better our surveillance situation?
WARZEL: Yes, I think so. The technology gets better. And these companies get better at doing it. So, we need lawmakers to act on this. And this is something they can do. Regulation can happen in this industry.
HASAN: I hope you`re right, Charlie, because I don`t really want it to get worse before it gets better. But I agree with you. I suspect it well. Charlie Warzel, thank you so much for your time and your insights tonight, great reporting in the New York Times. That is all in for this evening. You can always find me on Peacock where my show streams every weeknight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. I hope you check it out. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts now. Good evening, Rachel.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening. Mehdi. It is great to see you there, my friend. Thank you so much. Have an excellent weekend. And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. Happy to have you here. April 11th this past year was a really dark time.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END