The House GOP gave Marjorie Taylor Greene a standing ovation for
semi-apology behind closed doors. Interview with Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) on
the GOP failure to deal with the QAnon caucus in Congress. Politico
analysis found that only five percent of vaccinations total have gotten to
Black Americans even though black people account for at least 15 percent of
all COVID deaths in America. Newsmax host cuts off MyPillow CEO for
potentially libelous election misinformation. Michigan Officials seek
accountability for election lies pushed by Trump lawyer Sidney Powell. Rep.
Liz Cheney will remain in House GOP leadership after the vote to remove her
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Garret Morgan, we appreciate you because you`ve made
it so that we don`t have car wrecks. And that`s tonight`s REIDOUT. Thank
you all for being here. "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" is up next. And then at
9:00, Rachel Maddow interviews the new director of the CDC. You`re going to
want to watch it, Dr. Rachel Wilensky. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice over): Tonight on ALL IN. Meet the new face
of the Republican Party.
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Is the type of corruption we`re going
to see come out, is it going to be satanic worship that possibly all these
people are involved in?
HAYES: Tonight, how the QAnon caucus won the so-called GOP civil war going
away and how Democrats now have to deal with it. Then --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, my -- can I ask our producers, can we get out of
HAYES: From the MAGA pillow man, to the cracking lawyer, new real world
consequences for spreading election lies. Plus, Dr. Peter Hotez on what may
be really good vaccine news and why the race to get more shots in arms has
never been more important.
And why is it the Democrats are just getting control of the Senate from
Mitch McConnell today, when ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES (on camera): Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. Tonight, it
seems Kevin McCarthy and the House Republicans are refusing to discipline a
member of their caucus who is openly called for violence. And thus, proving
once and for all, there is no real civil war between the Trump Republicans
and the establishment Bush-era holdovers. If there ever was, it`s over. One
side absolutely walloped the other.
Not only did the Republicans not discipline this member, according to
reports, a lot of the people in the caucus apparently gave her a standing
ovation. A division in the party has been amplified because of two
contentious figures that the GOP House caucus has been trying to figure out
what to do with it.
Now, the first is Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene representing
the Trump Republicans, much of the Republican base. She is a wealthy
construction heiress who shifted her congressional campaign to a district
she didn`t even live in. And she has spent years posting insanely
offensive, violent, conspiratorial nonsense on the internet. From saying
that a secret Jewish Rothschild space laser started California wildfires,
to claiming Muslims should not be allowed to serve the United States
Congress, to indicating support for executing prominent Democrats including
Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
Just today, Mother Jones reported Greene was a moderator of a Facebook
group featuring death threats and racist memes. This afternoon, the House
Rules Committee, of course, under control of Democrats passed a resolution
to strip Greene of her committee assignments. And they did that because
Republicans wouldn`t do anything.
They did it after a Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy declined to take care of
it within the Republican caucus. Speaker Pelosi responded with a press
release blasting McCarthy for handing the keys to the party of Greene and
referring to the GOP leader as McCarthy (Q-CA).
According to multiple reports, Greene apologized to her Republican
colleagues and private for past comments tonight, although the extent of
that apology is a little unclear. But perhaps more importantly, half the
caucus reportedly gave her a standing ovation when she was finished
speaking. Meanwhile, her public rhetoric is growing increasingly hostile
So, that`s Marjorie Taylor Greene. On the other side of this so-called
civil war in the Republican Party, another woman in Congress, Congresswoman
Liz Cheney who is, of course, another heiress. In this case, the heiress to
the Dick Cheney political line. Also, like Greene, she moved to run for
office, in this case, from Virginia to Wyoming. And Cheney represents a
sort of Chamber of Commerce neoconservative Republican Party of the Bush
Now, to Cheney`s real credit, she voted to impeach the leader of the
Republican Party and the President Donald Trump with a very, very strong
statement about him inciting a mob of insurrectionists to overrun the
Capitol. For that, Liz Cheney is now facing the possibility being voted out
of House leadership. In fact, House Republicans are meeting about this
She has fellow Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz showing up in Wyoming to
attack her, leading a Republican civil war against her. But stop yourself
and ask this question. If Liz Cheney ran against Marjorie Taylor Greene in
a presidential primary for the Republican nomination, who the heck do you
think would win between the two of them?
I think we know the answer. In fact, in 2016, we had a mirror approximation
of it in Trump versus Jeb and look what happened there. The reason for that
is because Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene are closer to the
primary voting base of the Republican Party than Liz Cheney. And the
problem for the Cheney faction, if you can even call it that, is they have
nothing to offer.
The Republican Party right now faces a choice between being the loyal
opposition and being essentially a sedition is caucus opposed to democracy.
Remember, right now, as I speak to you, the majority of Republican members
of Congress is on the record voting for the latter voting to overturn a
democratic election, OK.
So, those in the Republican Party who again to their credit, want to at
least stay on this side of that line to stay the loyal opposition, they
have no affirmative argument for what the Republican Party should be that
has any appeal whatsoever to Republican primary voters. Forget other
voters. Senate Minority Whip John Thune perfectly embodied that message in
a tepid condemnation of Marjorie Taylor Greene. Asking the House GOP, "Did
they want to be the party of limited government fiscal responsibility, free
markets, peace through strength and pro-life or do they want to be the
party of conspiracy theories and QAnon?"
I got news for you, Senator Thune, no one wants those first things that you
listed as a Republican Party. At least the first part of it. I mean, let`s
be clear, the Republican Party doesn`t actually stand for that. And the
Trump years were not free markets when he`s handing out tens of billions of
dollars to farmers unilaterally, and limited government when he`s doing end
runs around congressional votes to stop them from funding the wall to do it
unilaterally, and adding a whole new Space Force, and enormous record-
setting deficits to get tax cuts for corporations.
No one is buying what you`re selling, Chamber of Commerce Republicans. You
cannot win the battle for the soul of your party with that platform because
no one actually wants it. No one in the base wants it, swing voters don`t
want it. No one wants it. The people in the base of the Republican Party
want to destroy the opposition. They want the country ruled by them no
matter what. And if that takes overturning elections and changing the laws
that certain kinds of people can vote, or whipping a mob up and to
intimidate members of Congress, so be it.
The Republican base wants the government to help them when they need it.
They don`t oppose big government in any way at all. But they wanted to keep
power away from the people they see as their enemies. They want to own the
libs, they want to fight Cancel Culture. That`s the sum total of what the
base wants, the substantive agenda. They also want to ban abortion, I
should say. That`s what they want.
Now, a new Quinnipiac poll shows that nearly two-thirds of Republicans
support $1,400 stimulus payment to Americans because A, they`re right.
That`s a good thing. It would help everyone. But also, John Thune, Chamber
of Commerce, whatever, they don`t care about whatever principles you have
about the free market, and like helping yourself and all that nonsense.
All this wrestling about what the Republican Party is and isn`t through the
figure of Marjorie Taylor Greene is somewhat bizarre in the sense that
Donald Trump was the president for the last four years. He was the head of
the Republican Party. And days before he left office, his approval rating
among Republicans was 87 percent. And that`s even after he got hundreds of
thousands of people killed in a plague and tried to overturn 240 straight
years of American democracy, 87 percent. Donald Trump was exactly what the
Republican base wants.
To talk about the current state of the GOP, I`m joined now by Carlos
Curbelo, former Republican congressman from Florida. Well, you kind of live
this in some ways. What do you think of my analysis of where the civil war
CARLOS CURBELO, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM FLORIDA: Well, Chris, look,
you`re right. This is not a debate about policy within the House Republican
Conference anymore. This is a debate about the truth versus lies. Marjorie
Taylor Greene apparently has been applauded or embracing a series of lies.
And Liz Cheney, who by the way I have heard is not apologizing for the
decisions she made, right now, as she meets with her fellow House
Republicans, she is under attack simply for recognizing the truth, for
recognizing what happened on the sixth of January and who was responsible
for that primarily, of course, the former president of the United States,
So that`s the dynamic, Chris. This is not about low taxes versus high
taxes. Back in the good old days, Republicans would get in trouble for
breaking tax pledges. Now, apparently, they got in trouble for recognizing
HAYES: But here`s -- so here`s what I think has happened. I think two
things have happened. One is that I think the modern conservative
orthodoxy, which is really synthesized and brought into a political
majority by Ronald Reagan, is in some ways the victim of his own success.
Taxes have been cut a ton since 1980. So, he`s just focusing on tax cuts
everywhere he go, has diminishing returns. Two, it has completely
Like, I just think this -- the notion of it and the context that bore
Reaganism isn`t there anymore and the ideology behind it is kind of
desiccated. You see it across the west. There`s nothing replacing it other
than resentment. That`s the problem. So, it`s like the Liz Cheneys or Adam
Kinzingers or Carlos Curbelos, whoever the world Republicans say don`t go
with the nuts go with us because why? What do you got?
CURBELO: Well, Chris, I think that`s a good point that maybe it is a victim
of its own success. And that`s why about 10 years ago, the Republican Party
essentially became the party of no. They just started saying no to
everything. And Donald Trump being an opportunistic person, as he has been
his whole life, saw that party. Saw that it really didn`t start standing
for nothing and decided to hijack it.
And here we are today where the party cannot even accept simple truths. And
a party that cannot accept simple truths, that cannot condemn lies, cannot
really put out there an agenda or a set of proposals or people to follow or
to embrace. And people who don`t recognize the truth and who don`t express
simple truths, it`s very difficult for them to lead.
So, right now, and their credit, Mitch McConnell and John Thune and Liz
Cheney and others are trying to wage this war. But it sure seems like
they`re going to come up short.
HAYES: Yes. And I think there`s a relationship here. Like it was
interesting to me the governor West Virginia, one of the Trumpiest, right,
the reddest states in the union is out there pushing for this relief bill,
saying don`t worry about the deficits, right? Because I think he knows
where his constituents at.
And it`s like, if the choice of the Republican Party is $1,400 checks and
QAnon, and possibly the executioner of political enemies, that`s one way to
go. Or it`s bad to talk about the execution or political enemies, we should
uphold democracy and also worried about the deficit, and don`t give the
$1,400 checks. That second wing is not in good shape. Like that`s not the
winning wing right now.
CURBELO: The lesson for Republicans in the last four years, Chris, has been
that as long as you`re OK with Trump, you can pretty much beat for anything
HAYES: Right, anything.
CURBELO: And that is not a coherent party that can instantly win a majority
of the public support.
HAYES: Yes, you`re right. I mean, I think it`s Trump but it`s sort of
against the libs, right, if you`re fighting -- if you`re fighting the other
side. And I think abortion -- I think abortion continues a litmus test. I
think you can`t come out and be like, oh, we should have a pro-choice
justice. Like that`s -- but those are it. Like, basically it`s that and
then everything -- it`s a free running field ideologically after that,
which is part of what we`re seeing in this fight.
Carlos Curbelo, thank you for giving us a little bit of your expertise
tonight. I really appreciate it.
CURBELO: Thank you, Chris. Good night.
HAYES: There`s a strategy the right-wing media returns to again and again.
When people aligned with their side, do something indefensible, which is to
point to something else and say, well, hey, what about that, all the time.
For example, when a Republican president whipped up and incited a mob of
insurrection, and then those insurrections attack the U.S. Capitol in
violent pursuit of overturning a legitimate election, the right-wing media
just went to the old playbook. And instead of reckoning with what had
happened, what their side had done, it was like, what about Antifa?
They are now doing this again, predictably, again, with Marjorie Taylor
Greene, a member of Congress who has literally signaled support for the
murder of Democratic lawmakers. I mean, I think she says that it was
someone managing her page, but that`s like what happened. So, this was Fox
News today. The network`s suggesting a double standard in the treatment of
Greene and Democratic Representative Ilhan Omar, someone who does not, for
the record, have public support for killing her fellow lawmakers.
House Republicans are using the same tactic as their media allies. So, this
afternoon, in response, Congressman Congresswoman Omar released a statement
that reads in part, "Let`s be clear, this is a desperate smear rooted in
racism, misogyny and Islamophobia. The House Republican caucus, instead of
holding her accountable is now fanning the flames. Republicans will do
anything to distract from the fact they have not only allowed but elevated
members of their own caucus who encouraged violence. It`s time to stop
whitewashing the actions of the violent conspiracy theorists who pose a
direct and immediate threat to their fellow members of Congress and our
most fundamental democratic processes."
And joining me now for his first interview on all this is Democratic
Representative Ilhan Omar of Minnesota. Representative, Congresswoman, did
you expect that you would be pulled into this because you have become kind
of the go-to figure in these moments for the Republican Party?
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): Sadly, this is the Republican playbook. We saw it
with Donald Trump that anytime they are faced with consequences for their
actions to undermine our democracy. They blame Muslims, they blame
immigrants. They blame black people, they blame women. I just happen to
embody all of these identities.
And I just want to make sure, Chris that we are clear on this. This is not
about me, and it should not be about me. This is about a member of the
Republican caucus who has repeatedly incited violence and Republicans can`t
just wave a magic wand and attack the Black Congresswoman.
HAYES: It was notable that there has been a fundraising effort using you.
The fundraising was complaining the Democrats are trying to expel me from
Congress. And it was interesting, the Democrat behind her there is you not,
you know, Speaker Pelosi or House leadership. I think everyone understands
what that`s about.
I guess my question is this. There`s this dynamic that functions now where
she will use this attention, right, and this sort of oppositional to
fundraise. Like, do you think about breaking out of this cycle and how to
do it if there`s any way out of it?
OMAR: No. I mean, you know, the Republicans truly have lost their way.
Their party is destroyed. Their base now is conspiracy theorists, it`s
cowards, it`s opportunists, it`s grifters. And sadly, they`re becoming the
Looney Tunes. You know, these are people who we can`t take serious. They`re
not here to do the people`s business. They are here to just be
obstructionist and make a mockery of not just our government, but our
HAYES: There is -- of course, this individual Congresswoman who`s the
subject of this question today in this House Rules Committee attracted
attention she ran because of this ad with her with a gun next to you and
other Democratic lawmakers. And, you know, it just seems to me that there -
- and you tweeted about this, about feeling like this sense of threat or
menace. Alexandria, Ocasio Cortez talked about this. We saw it embodied in
January 6th. This is not theoretical
But just the degree to which the idea of physical intimidation, the threat
of violence, of menace of armed people has entered into the oxygen, the
atmosphere of the building and the place you work that should be a question
of sort of depth debating politics.
OMAR: Yes. I mean, so many people have asked, you know, could there be
violence. Could this lead to violence? And, you know, they seem to forget
that five people have already lost their lives on -- in the events of
January 6th, including a Capitol Police officer. Hundreds more people could
have. We currently have members of Congress who are moving their offices
away because they feel for their lives.
You know, Alex talked about the trauma that she`s living with and has lived
with since January 6th. I sent a text message to my ex-husband and told
him, you know, if I don`t make it out, please make sure you tell my
children, I love them. This is not a joke. This is not a game. These people
are threatening to our environment. They are threatening our ability to do
our work. They are really making it hard for people to survive and exist in
a free democracy where debate and discourse is supposed to be celebrated.
We are now living in a situation where every single caucus conversation,
it`s about, you know, where can we find resources for security? How are we
supposed to check if our panic buttons are working? You know, can we buddy
up and walk the hallways because we are afraid of our own colleagues. This
is insane. No other work environment that is this toxic would sustain
itself. And we can`t sustain ourselves as members of Congress in the
HAYES: The final question is, is there something that these members can do
to cross back over the line whether it`s Margaret Taylor Greene, whether
it`s the others that voted to overturn this election? Like, what would do
that? What would be a way when you say it`s unsustainable short of removing
them from Congress, which I think probably won`t happen, and I think
there`s small D democratic arguments for why that might not be ideal. What
OMAR: They can -- they can show leadership. They can decide not to turn the
key over -- the key of their party over to this conspiracy theorist, white
supremacist, violent and dangerous member of Congress. They can hold her
accountable. They can hold so many of their members who have incited
insurrection and helped lead a rebellion against our democracy on January
It is going to be a long road because, you know, these are the children
that are born out of a white supremacist movement that has taken over the
base of the Republican Party. And we have to, you know, wait and see if
they are willing to do the hard work of, you know, dealing with this awful,
toxic, really deadly white supremacist, fascist America that they have
HAYES: Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, thank you so much for being with me.
OMAR: Thank you.
HAYES: Next, what may be some good news in the vaccine front and an ominous
warning about who will suffer most if we don`t speed up vaccinations
quickly. Dr. Peter Hotez explains after this.
HAYES: While the United States is slowly pushing up the average number of
vaccines administered per day, we need to get more shots and more arms much
faster, especially, especially in communities that have already been
decimated by the disease.
One Politico analysis found that only five percent of vaccinations total
have gotten to Black Americans, even though black people account for at
least 15 percent of all COVID deaths in America and it could be about to
get so much worse. As Dr. Peter Hotez lays out an op-ed for the Daily
Beast, the new, more contagious, mutant variants of the virus popping up
across the country could be absolutely catastrophic for Black Americans.
Dr. Peter Hotez, the Dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at
Baylor College of Medicine, a co-director of the Texas Children`s Hospital
Center for Vaccine Development who is himself working on a Coronavirus
vaccine joins me now. Dr. Hotez, lay out the argument you make in the op-ed
about the need to target specifically African Americans for vaccination as
quickly as possible.
PETER HOTEZ, CO-DIRECTOR, TEXAS CHILDREN`S HOSPITAL CENTER FOR VACCINE
DEVELOPMENT: Yes, Chris, it`s really born out of the fact now especially
because we`ve got the new variants coming the ones from the United Kingdom,
South Africa, and now Brazil. And we know that they`re highly contagious.
They`re much more transmissible than the -- than the previous major
lineages that we`ve had in North America. And so, they`re going to race
through this population very quickly.
They`re already here. The U.K., there`s been at least about 540 isolates,
three in South Africa, one in Brazil. And we`ve only really just started
now doing genomic sequencing. We`ve been underachieving so it`s probably
much more widespread. So, this thing is going to sweep through the country
even though we`re on a decline right now from 250,000 new cases a day to
150,000. This is going to sweep through.
And what we`ve learned in 2020 is that this virus disproportionately
affects certain groups, Hispanics, African American populations, Native
American populations. And I`m really worried particularly about the African
American population for a number of reasons. They seem to be losing their
life at a younger age, about a third of the deaths in the African American
non-white populations occurring under the age of 65. That`s so true of
So, we`re losing a generation of 40, 50-year-old African American moms and
dads and I`m worried about that. And the fact the -- we`re seeing now,
we`re not doing such a great job in vaccinating in low-income
neighborhoods. And then we`ve done two studies -- we have two studies now
to show high rates of vaccine hesitancy among the African American people.
So, we`re looking at this perfect storm. If this virus as the new variants
race through, this is who it`s going to hit the hardest, I`m afraid.
HAYES: Yes. We should -- we should note that there is -- we`re doing very
little genomic sequencing in terms of surveilling where the new strains
are. One individual, an Alabama man at the age of 35 who did in fact have
that that strain from the U.K. has died, succumbed to the virus. You can
see him right there, 35 years old. And of course, we saw the fatality rates
go up and the hospitalization rates go up in the U.K. That combines with
the fact that this has been hitting African Americans.
Here`s my frustration about the vaccine discussion. There was -- the CDC
put up this metric -- this sort of matrix for decision making about tiers
and ordering vaccines, and it -- and it prioritized equity, particularly
racial equity. And it got a lot of criticism for that. There was a lot of
criticism that says stop thinking about that. Get shots in arms. And I
think there was a persuasive reason for that.
But now that we`ve moved to just shots and arms, guess what America, we
have -- we have managed to recreate the problem from an equity standpoint.
We have tons of evidence coming in. This is from the New York Times.
Wealthy are getting more vaccinations, even in poor neighborhoods, we have
racial disparities opening up in vaccinations. How do we fix that?
HOTEZ: Yes. I think one of the major ways, of course, is making vaccines
more accessible in some of the low-income neighborhoods. You know, we don`t
really have much of a health system for giving adult vaccinations. It
relies heavily on the pharmacy chains and the hospital chains. But
tragically, you know, many of the low-income neighborhoods are pharmacy
deserts. They`re just not there. And same with a number of the community
hospitals that are folded in poor urban areas.
And so, as a consequence, there`s no place to get vaccinated. So, we`ve got
to specifically open up community centers. We`ve been doing that in
Houston. Mayor Turner has been opening up centers and some of the low-
income neighborhoods. This may be a good model to follow. But also in
parallel, what we`re finding is when we look at groups that are going to
refuse vaccines, it`s pretty high among the African American population
because they don`t trust what`s been going on. They`re not being spoken to.
There`s an absence of communication and that horrific legacy of Tuskegee
experimentation, of course. And there`s not been deliberate targeting of
African American groups by the anti-vaccine lobby.
So, we`ve -- so, one of the things that I`m doing now, Chris, is I`m going
on African American radio broadcasts and talk radio shows and podcasts when
every chance I get because the message that they`re not hearing is how
we`re disproportionately losing the lives of so many young moms and dads
and brothers and sisters. And that message absolutely has to get across in
a big way. And if no one`s going to do it, I`ll do the best I can.
I know -- you know, I talked to people -- some of the people in the Biden
camp. They understand that they get it. They`re ramping up. But the scary
thing is, you know, before we thought we have time, we thought we had for
the fall to fully vaccinate the American people. But now, with the new
variants here, in the last couple of weeks, we now realize we have to call
an audible, and now we`ve got to get this done by June.
And so it`s not only going to be about getting the vaccination hubs. We
need more vaccines. And we`re learning in Operation Warp Speed that we
don`t have all the vaccines that are not being made in parallel with all of
the studies, unfortunately.
HAYES: Yes. Supply right now is a bigger issue than the demand. But I think
there are lots of people, I should just note, who are working on the demand
side of this issue among various communities across the country. Dr. Peter
Hotez, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience on this. I
HOTEZ: Thank you.
HAYES: Next, the unreal exchange in an interview with the My Pillow dude
that tells you just about everything you need to know about this political
moment. One of these people is apologizing today. Stick around to find out
HAYES: In just a second, I`m going to play for you two of the greatest
minutes that have ever aired on cable news function as a kind of Rosetta
Stone for understanding everything about our politics in this moment. But
first, I need to give you a little context for what you`re going to see.
The network here is called Newsmax, sort of fringe, right-wing, a very pro-
Trump channel even more so than Fox. They`ve gained a huge following in
recent months eating into Fox`s ratings by essentially going all in on the
former president`s big lie about the election being stolen. And of course,
that included lots of segments about a company called Dominion voting
systems, and conspiracy theories about their voting machines deleting or
Now, that didn`t actually happen, but the network went along with the false
story until Dominion threatened them with a defamation lawsuit. And then
Newsmax quickly changed its tune after that. They started running these
bizarre quasi hostage video segments with the hosts reading statements to
set the record straight about Dominion. That`s the network we`re about to
The guest is the MAGA pillow guy Mike Lindell, who is also all-in on this
conspiracy theory to the point that he went to the White House on January
15 to try to convince Donald Trump to stage a full coup. And because he
himself was spreading the lie about the voting machines and the election
being stolen, the MAGA pillow man, like Trump, was kicked off of Twitter,
which gave Newsmax the bright idea to bring him on to rant against the
censorious woke mob cancel culture that de-platformed him.
The problem, of course, is that he was de-platformed for telling exactly
the kinds of lies that got Newsmax into potential legal trouble. And those
lies were all the MAGA pillow guy wanted to talk about. So, this is what
that looked like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, what happened? What happened with your Twitter
account and the company page?
MIKE LINDELL, CEO, MYPILLOW: Well, first mine was taken down because we
have all the election problems with this Dominion machines. We have 100
percent proof. And then I -- when they took it down a few weeks ago --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike, Mike --
LINDELL: And then when I put it back up, my personal --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike, thank you very much. Mike, you`re talking about
machines that we at Newsmax have not been able to verify any of those kinds
of allegations. We just want to let people know that there`s nothing
substantive that we`ve seen. Let me read you something there.
While there were some clear evidence of some cases about fraud and election
irregularities, the election results in every state were certified, and
Newsmax accepts the results as legal and final. The courts have also
supported that view. So, we wanted to talk to you about canceling culture,
if you will.
LINDELL: But -- so wait, Chris, you`re against --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t want to relitigate the allegations that you`re
making, Mike, because we understand where you are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait, wait.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, let me ask you this. Do you think that this should
be temporary because it appears to be permanent? Could you make an argument
that is temporary?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you make an argument that this could be a
temporary banding rather than permanent?
LINDELL: No, I wanted to be a permanent because you know what, the judge us
because I`m revealing all the evidence on Friday of all the election
problem with these machines. So, I`m sorry if you`re thinking it`s not --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, Mike -- can I ask our producers, can we get out of
here, please? I don`t want to have to keep going over this. We at Newsmax
have not been able to verify any of those allegations that you`re --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait. Wait a minute. Wait, Mike, hold on a second.
Everybody, hold on a second. Mike, Mike, hold on one second. Let`s talk a
little bit about just what is happening overall in terms of censorship --
LINDELL: (INAUDIBLE) my company and myself in this country is cancel
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Oh, so good. Lucky for Mike Lindell, he was back on Newsmax the same
night and today host Bob Seller has apologized on air saying he could have
handled the interview differently and that the MAGA pillow man will
continue to be important guest on the network as a very important guest who
happens to also spend tens of thousands of dollars running ads on that
But it all underlines there are other more serious legal consequences
possible for those who spread the big lie. State officials in Michigan are
actually pushing to disbar Trump lawyers who`ve played along. I`ll talk to
two of those officials next.
HAYES: For almost a year, the situation in the state of Michigan has served
as a kind of common attraction for the country at large. Last spring, you
might remember, armed right-wing groups marched on the state Capitol
protesting the public health lockdowns essentially cheered on by President
Then months later, the FBI uncovered a plot to kidnap the governor leading
to more than a dozen arrests. And by late November, with Joe Biden`s clear
and decisive victory Michigan, Trump-aligned attorney Sidney Powell was
peddling wild, unfounded allegations of massive election fraud, documented
in a legal filing riddled with errors.
Well, now Michigan`s top elected officials are pushing for accountability.
On Monday, the state attorney general filed grievances against Powell and
three Michigan attorneys who aided her saying a direct line can be drawn
from the fabrications of Ms. Powell and her associates to the unprecedented
insurrection at the Capitol building in Washington D.C. on January 6th that
sought to topple our national government. Nothing short of permanent
disbarment would be appropriate under these circumstances.
Dana Nessel is the Michigan attorney general who filed those complaints
along with the lawsuit last Thursday suing the four lawyers for attorney`s
fees. And Jocelyn Benson is the Secretary of State in Michigan responsible
for the integrity of state elections, which Powell and her associates
attacked. And both join me now.
I`ll begin with you, Attorney General Nessel. What is the procedure here?
How often is it used and why use it here?
DANA NESSEL, ATTORNEY GENERAL, MICHIGAN: Well, it`s not terribly uncommon
that some sort of complaint is made against an attorney with the attorney
grievance commission. But it is fairly unusual to ask for disbarment as the
remedy. But we thought that it was entirely appropriate given the set of
circumstances. I mean, these are not just any cases. These are cases that
sought to overturn the will of the people as to the presidential election
in Michigan, and sought really to undermine people`s faith in the integrity
of our electoral system.
So, we thought it was the appropriate remedy. And we`re hoping the
attorney`s grievance missions in both Michigan and in the state of Texas
where Sidney Powell is licensed will take consideration into what we`ve
HAYES: Secretary of State Benson, what are the effects been? I know that --
you know, we have polling now that shows just a huge part of the national
electorate believes the election was stolen, as they have been repeatedly
told by, you know, leaders of the Republican Party, conservative media.
There`s some argument that actually having these lawsuits in your state
allowed courts to say this is nonsense, and we`re better for trust in the
system, but I wonder how you see it.
JOCELYN BENSON, SECRETARY OF STATE, MICHIGAN: All interestingly, you know,
first, we have to recognize that last year`s elections were a great
success. More people voted in Michigan and elsewhere than ever before. And
so, in some ways, the post-election shenanigans in the court -- and through
the court of public opinion really covered that truth.
And to the point that -- to the extent that we were worried about the
security of our elections last year, we ultimately found that the greatest
security threat was not foreign interference but actually these domestic
attacks in the form of lies and misinformation that was spread in an
intentional, calculated way to intentionally mislead people and sow doubt
in our elections. And the misuse and abuse of those who have the very
privilege to present arguments in a court of law, for them to abuse that
privilege to intentionally try to undermine the will of the people is
particularly pernicious. It was unprecedented.
And it was particularly challenging and disappointing given the fact that
it was in line with a very successful election that saw so many people on
both sides of the aisle engaged in the process and believing in the process
through deciding to cast their votes in November.
HAYES: Attorney General, there have been responses from some of the lawyers
named. A lawyer for Sidney Powell saying that it was improper using the
color of your office as Attorney General to try to unlawfully influence the
district judge on pending motions. Others accusing you essentially of this
being a political vendetta, that it wasn`t the ethical substance of the
actual actions taken, but that because it was taken on behalf of a
political cause, you oppose, that you`re trying to mete out this
NESSEL: Chris, these attorneys sought to undermine the vote of the people
of the state of Michigan. Secretary Benson and I represent the people of
the state of Michigan, as does Governor Whitmer. And it just so happens
that all three of us are licensed attorneys. So, if not us, if we are not
the ones to fight back against these types of lies in this effort to
undermine this election and undermine our democracy, then who are the
proper and appropriate authorities who should bring such a, you know, such
a case or such a complaint? I would argue that we are entirely the
appropriate actors to do that.
And I will say this further. I mean, if those individuals that were
involved in the interaction of the capital, they really believe what was in
these lawsuits. They truly drank the Kool-Aid. And if they drank the Kool-
Aid, then it was these lawyers that mixed it, stirred it, and served it up
in Dixie cups to all of these individuals and that fan the flames of this
horrific fire. They are responsible, and they ought to be held accountable.
HAYES: Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel and Secretary of State Jocelyn
Benson, thank you both for making time tonight.
BENSON: Our pleasure, Chris. Thanks.
HAYES: Earlier, we talked about how House Republicans are voting tonight on
whether or not to strip Liz Cheney of her leadership position because she
voted to impeach Donald Trump. The vote is now in. The House Republican
caucus has voted by secret ballot to let her keep her job. NBC News
Correspondent Leigh Ann Caldwell is at the Capitol and she joins me now.
How did this vote go down? Do we have a -- do we have a tally?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris, we do. The vote
just took place in this room right behind me down a flight of stairs. The
tally was pretty significant in favor of Liz Cheney about 145 to 61. So,
that means there was just about 60 members who voted to strip her from her
position as the number three Republican in the House Conference.
So, it was a secret ballot, so we don`t know exactly how people voted. But
I will say that it was -- it was a lot less than I expected. There was
hours of debate about Liz Cheney and her role in the conference. Everyone
was talking about it was a family discussion. So, we didn`t get a lot of
details. There seems to be a big muzzle around what did happen there.
But we do know that Marjorie Taylor Greene, who there was not a vote about
her tonight, she did get up to speak and there were some members who gave
her a little bit of a standing ovation. She was well-received I am told.
HAYES: 145 to 61 in a secret ballot. That is -- I mean, that is I suppose
encouraging insofar as the caucus has decided that they will not cast out a
member for the sheer heterodoxy of voting to impeach the president of the
United States. And that`s a fairly wide margin. Although deposing
leadership is a big deal. I mean, if it had gone the other way, would have
been an enormous earthquake, right?
CALDWELL: It would have been extremely significant, especially on the same
day that they were having this big discussion about Marjorie Taylor Greene,
who has said in the past that Parkland was a false flag operation. She had
been a supporter of QAnon. And McCarthy earlier in the day, the Republican
leader, had come out and said that he was not going to support stripping
her of her committee assignments.
So, if the conference after that news then voted to strip Liz Cheney write
her number three position, that would have been extremely significant and a
very big signal to the country of what the Republican Party stands for.
Right now, they`re keeping it as status quo.
HAYES: Right. I guess -- that`s well said, right? What ended up getting set
up here was a kind of, well, let`s not do anything about either equilibrium
that essentially prevailed in both cases in terms of the caucus.
CALDWELL: That`s absolutely right. They`re going to try to live to fight
another day. And now, tomorrow, the Democrats are planning on moving
forward on a resolution to strip Marjorie Taylor Greene from her committee
assignments. That is pretty unprecedented that one party would try to strip
another party`s members from committee assignments.
And so, what Republicans are leaning into is democratic overreach. They are
saying that they are -- McCarthy in his statement said they are raising the
temperature of partisanship and politics on Capitol Hill by Democrats
forcing this vote.
So, it now look like they`re going to shift the focus and try to, you know
-- I just keep hearing this term from Republican members over and over
again, democratic overreach. They think that the impeachment is democratic
overreach. They think that the thing that saves Republicans over and over
again is overreaction from Democrats. And they`re going to try to play into
that tomorrow when the House takes this vote because Republicans did not
act regarding Marjorie Taylor Greene, and then they`re keeping Cheney in
her position so they`re going to try to change the topic. Chris?
HAYES: Yes, it`s like law of unintended consequences. Like, when you aim
your space laser down to pursue your plans of world domination, you end up
with a forest fire, sort of like that. NBC News Correspondent Leigh Ann
Caldwell live at the Capitol tonight, thank you very much.
CALDWELL: Thank you.
HAYES: Over in the Senate, Democrats won the majority on January 6th in
almost one month and one insurrection later. They are finally taking their
committee chairs, their gavels, their precious gavels. Members of Congress
love to chair things. And this happened after Senate Majority Leader Chuck
Schumer and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell reached an agreement earlier
today on how to run a 50-50 Senate, allowing Democrats to pass the
organizing resolution and take majority control of the upper chamber.
Now, the question becomes, can Democrats advance the President`s agenda
particularly on major legislation and nominees with their razor-thin
majority? I`m joined now by Senator Tim Kaine, Democrat from Virginia.
I guess first, it finally happened. Today was the day you guys now -- you
guys now have control. Congratulations.
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Thank you, Chris. We feel very, very good about it.
You control the agenda. So, it`s 50, but once you`re the majority, you can
determine the hearings will happen, you can determine what bills get marked
up in committee, you can determine what bills get attention on the floor,
and that is a very, very good thing.
HAYES: So, let`s talk about that. There have been a number of committees
that have moved forward with Republicans chairing them, essentially, to
confirm a number of members at the Cabinet. There are some notable
exceptions, including Merrick Garland, a man who is familiar with
senatorial dithering, and was probably hoping to not experience that again,
but has not yet had a hearing, I think, in the justice -- the Judicial
Committee, and is not clear when he`s going to be confirmed. What`s up with
KAINE: Well, no surprise, Chris. The Republicans are wild about the
Department of Justice. And so, they`re glad to dither and not have a
hearing on the attorney general who by all accounts is one of the foremost
consequential cabinet secretaries. But as of today, we have named the
Democratic committee chairs. Dick Durbin is the chair of Judiciary and we
feel very compelled to move forward with Merrick Garland as promptly as we
We`ve got to battle white supremacy and domestic terrorism. We`ve got to
keep America safe from the crimes that an attorney general is always
focused on. I`m not on the Judiciary Committee, but I have a feeling Durbin
is going to, you know, bring this up pretty quickly.
HAYES: The biggest priority right now is COVID relief. And, you know,
there`s very few dynamics here. One, you got polling showing 65, 70 percent
of Americans support it, even large percentages of Republicans. You`ve got
Governor Justice down in West Virginia, a state that Trump won by 50 points
saying, for heaven`s sake, go big.
What is the sentiment about how quickly to move and whether you need to
negotiate with yourself, which I`m going to get to in a second, in the
KAINE: So, Chris, you know, this is inside baseball, but Democrats are very
focused on the tool of budget reconciliation, which is a tool that`s
available to both parties. It`s been used to do some of the most bipartisan
legislation we`ve done in the last few decades, like the chip bill, the
Children`s Health Insurance Bill or the earned income tax credit.
But the good news is you can use -- you can use budget reconciliation to do
big important things promptly with a simple majority vote. And that`s what
we`re setting up to do. Because the death toll is staggering every day. We
see death tolls in excess of the number of Americans killed on 9/11. The
economic consequences staggering. The American public is suffering, and
they need big action and they need a big action soon.
We`re in dialogue with Republicans because we want to put into that bill
priorities that they think are important, priorities that matter to their
voters and their states. But we`re not interested in slowing down and
letting Americans suffer slowly over this raging fire. We got to provide
relief and we got to provide it fast.
HAYES: There`s a lot in the relief package. There`s money for states and
municipalities, there`s money for vaccination program, there`s expanded tax
credit for families with children, there`s a whole bunch. There`s been a
lot of focus on direct cash relief, the checks, the $2,000 checks, partly
because it was a big part of that campaign down the stretch in Georgia that
that won the majority.
I want to play you something that the press secretary Jen Psaki said today
about considerations in negotiations that I think are happening within the
Democratic Party about paring back eligibility on those checks. Take a
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Earlier today, on the call with House Democrats, the
President talks about better targeting the stimulus checks. I wonder if you
could just explain what he meant by that and what might be under
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Further targeting means not the
size of the check. It means the income level of people who received the
check, and that`s something that has been under discussion, there hasn`t
been a conclusion, but certainly, he`s open to having that discussion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: OK, here`s my -- here`s my pitch to you, Senator, then I`ll shut up.
Don`t do this, A. B, if you have to do it, and you need 50 votes, so
whatever, just give people checks and tax it back next year if they had a
good year and didn`t need it. This idea that you`re going to means test our
2019 income, which is currently, it is not capturing the need. Please don`t
do this. OK, you respond. I`ll shut up now.
KAINE: Chris, so, here`s what I -- here`s what I -- so, I absolutely agree
with the White House. We shouldn`t shrink the check amount. But I do think
what the White House is talking about, the $1.9 trillion, that`s what we
need to do. And look, if we target the check a little bit more in terms of
the means but we take the money we save and we put it into more vaccines,
or more unemployment insurance, or more housing aid, or more SNAP benefits,
we can -- we can meet the needs.
So, the issue about the $1,400 check, it connects with a whole lot of other
priorities in this bill that are about (AUDIO GAP) suffering America. So, I
think the targeting thing is not a bad discussion to get into as long as we
are going big and going prompt because Americans are still suffering.
HAYES: Well, I would agree that that don`t -- you know, don`t hold it up
over that. I just think, again, the logic here of means testing gets
complicated and people don`t -- their income in 2019 isn`t relevant. All I
would say is the tax code next year is a great means and it will score the
same -- by the way, for CBO purposes, it`ll score the same if you just tax
it back next year. So, that`s my -- that`s my little piece here.
Senator Tim Kaine, I`m not a senator, but I just -- you know, I can`t help
but offer my opinion. Thank you so much for making time tonight.
KAINE: You could be a budget committee staffer, Chris, with that comment.
HAYES: OK. It`s true though. All right, one of the big questions facing
Democrats in the Senate is whether they should eliminate the filibuster.
That`s the topic of the latest episode of my podcast Why is this Happening?
where Senate insider Adam Jentleson lays out how we got filibuster in the
first place, why it becomes Mitch McConnell`s go-to move. Find that
wherever you get your podcast.
That`s ALL IN for this evening. "THE RACHEL MADDOW" show starts right now.
Good evening, Rachel.
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