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Transcript: All In with Chris Hayes, 10/21/21

Guests: Jamie Raskin, Michael Fanone, John Fetterman, Michael Daly


Today, the House of Representatives, nine Republicans and all of Democrats, voted to refer one of Donald Trump`s closest allies, Steve Bannon, to the Department of Justice for possible criminal contempt charges. New video shows that Capitol rioters beating Officer Michael Fanone under Blue Lives Matter flag. Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick pays his first voter fraud reward that happened in Pennsylvania which the voter voted for Trump. Chicago government and the Chicago police union sue each other over vaccine mandate.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a lot to offer. And we want to live on. We`re going to have a rally in Charleston at 4:00 and we want everyone to join us.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Well, Pam Garrison, I -- we -- I need to bring you back. I want to talk to you more. But that -- we are out of time, so thank you so much, Pamela Garrison. That is the REIDOUT tonight. "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN. The House votes to hold Steve Bannon in contempt.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): If you act deliberately with sneering cavalier contempt for the American people, we will hold you in contempt.

HAYES: Congressman Jamie Raskin on Bannon`s contempt and the high stakes decision for the Justice Department. Then, beaten by the Trump mob on January 6th, Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Fanone joins me exclusively with reaction to today`s big vote.

MICHAEL FANONE, METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: I`m glad that they voted to enforce the subpoena. I want accountability.

HAYES: And the lieutenant governor of Texas offered a big reward to find voter fraud.

DAN PATRICK, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, TEXAS: I set this program up, Shannon, to mirror crime stoppers. So, I have up to $1 million for my campaign fund. I will give them.

HAYES: Tonight, the lieutenant governor of Pennsylvania on how one of his constituents is finally collecting a check.


HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES (on camera): Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. Today, the House of Representatives voted to refer one of Donald Trump`s closest allies, Steve Bannon, to the Department of Justice for possible criminal contempt charges. Bannon who is the chief executive officer of Trump`s 2016 campaign, and then went on to serve as White House Chief Strategist and Senior Counselor to the President, has just defied a subpoena from the House committee investigating January 6.

The vote was bipartisan. Nine Republicans joining all Democrats in voting yes. They were Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Adam Kinzinger of Illinois. Those are both members of the January 6 committee. Peter Meijer, and Fred Upton of Michigan, John Katko of New York who interestingly, you may remember, he initially negotiated the bipartisan deal to investigate the insurrection. That was then sort of rejected by Republican leadership after he had struck the deal.

Anthony Gonzalez of Ohio one that`s up and coming Republican who is retiring he says largely because of the MAGA hordes. And Jaime Herrera Beutler of Washington, all of whom voted to impeach Donald Trump last year over the insurrection.

Two other interesting votes Nancy Mace of South Carolina and Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania also voted yesterday. Interestingly, the brother of former Vice President Mike Pence who you may recall was the subject of the hang Mike Pence chants and who had to flee for his safety on January 6, his brother did not vote.

The vast majority of Republican members of the House, 202 of them voted to allow Steve Bannon to skirt a Congressional subpoena. Congressman Jim Banks of Indiana issued this call to his party during the hour of debate before the vote.


REP. JIM BANKS (R-IN): The Select Committee is engaged in an unconstitutional, political investigation, a sham investigation conducted by a sham committee that refuses to answer real questions about what happened on January 6. I urge all of my colleagues to make the moral vote. Do the right thing. I urge you to vote for the rule of law for the institution of Congress and against the select committee`s dangerous abuse of Congress`s oversight authority.


HAYES: Now, let`s remember who we are talking about here, who the subject of this contempt vote is. Last year in August, Steve Bannon was arrested on a $35 million yacht named the Lady May belonging to a Chinese billionaire where he was apparently chilling out. He was charged with defrauding Donald Trump diehard supporters, the kind of people who would donate their money to an online scheme, allegedly, to help build the wall on the Southern Border. It was called We Build the Wall.

The fundraising effort collected more than $25 million. And prosecutors said Mr. Bannon used nearly $1 million of it for personal expenses. And just to be clear, those personal expenses were not like him building the wall, they were just, you know, him doing his thing.

And then after the election in the lead up to January 6, we know that Bannon was involved in Donald Trump`s, you know, insurrection plot, his plot to overturn the election. He spoke to Trump the week before the attack on the Capital, encouraged him to focus on January 6. That`s the day, of course, the electoral votes would be admitted and counted.

Bannon was also present at a meeting on January 5th at the Willard Hotel held to try to persuade members of Congress to block the certification of the election. And on that same day, Bannon made these damning comments on his podcast.



STEVE BANNON, SENIOR COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: Listen, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Just understand this. All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. It`s going to be moving, it`s going to be quick.


HAYES: In a special extra podcast episode, because he is a hard-working podcaster, on the evening of January 5th, Bannon described what was coming in even more detail.


BANNON: This is going to be very controversial. We are going into uncharted orders. We`re going into something that`s never happened before in American history. Tomorrow, it`s going to -- we`re pulling the trigger on something that`s going to be -- and it`s going to be minute by minute, hour by hour what happens. The stakes couldn`t be higher.


HAYES: Now, then, remember, having been nabbed on the Chinese billionaire`s yacht and accused by the government -- indicted by the government of defrauding die hard Trump supporters and still facing up to 40 years in prison for fraud, Bannon was saved by Donald Trump`s pardon on Donald Trump`s very last day in office bu.

Of course, that pardon did not cover Bannon`s role in the insurrection. Today`s referral from nine Republicans and all the House Democrats now goes to the Department of Justice which will decide whether or not to charge Bannon with criminal contempt.

Now, for some historical context, the last time the Department of Justice prosecuted someone for contempt of Congress was nearly four decades ago, back in 1983, when a Reagan administration official with the Environmental Protection Agency refused to testify about her management of the agency`s hazardous waste cleanup fund. And Congress voted unanimously across party lines to refer her for contempt prosecution.

So, there`s precedent but it`s as you can tell, pretty rare. It`s now up to Attorney General Merrick Garland and his department to decide what happens next for Steve Bannon. Congressman Jamie Raskin is a Democrat of Maryland who serves on the Select Committee investigating January 6 which issued that subpoena to Steve Bannon last month.

Today`s vote came down I would say roughly where I thought it was. Although I -- if I had to give an over-under, probably a few more Republican votes than I would have guessed. What did you think?

RASKIN: Yes. There were definitely more Republican votes than I was expecting given that Kevin McCarthy was whipping the vote very hard to try to get everybody, you know, on the side of not issuing the criminal contempt referral for Bannon.

And so, I was pleased to see there were both a number of people on the Republican side who had voted to impeach Donald Trump also in this group but there were also some new ones like Nancy Mace from South Carolina who is my counterpart on the Oversight Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and she just said she believes in the rule of law and how can Congress with the straight face go forward in ever issue subpoenas again if we`re not going to stand by our subpoenas. So, more power to these people who stood by the rule of law.

HAYES: Yes, Nancy Mace`s statement basically making the point which I thought is a good one is look, if you have a privilege you want to assert, an immunity you want to assert, you got to come down and assert it. That the sort of going out of his way to, as I think you said on the floor, show his contempt for the subpoena was essentially an insult to the institution of Congress. And I thought, you know, that was a well put by her.

RASKIN: That`s the way it works. You know, if you get subpoenaed by a court or by Congress to come down and testify, you think you might have a Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination to invoke at some point. You take all of the questions starting with what is your name, what is your address and so on. When you get to a question where you think you might incriminate yourself as to a bank robbery or an insurrection or whatever it might be, you say I take the Fifth Amendment. I assert my privilege.

At that point, the Committee has an option, will the committee just accept that or will the committee say we will give you use immunity which means you`ve got to testify but we will guarantee that nothing that you testify about will be used against you.

HAYES: All right, so whose office is this sitting in right now, this referral?

RASKIN: It`s at the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia. And the statute -- well, it can be read to either give them some flexibility or the way that Jim Jordan read it like back with the Eric Holder contempt or the lowest learner contempt is the U.S. Attorney must go before the grand jury to demand an indictment.

And -- but, you know, we think that it`s very likely given that the gravity of this matter is so overwhelming and that the facts are so clear that he just blew us off that we think that the Department of Justice will move forward. Of course, we`re not putting all our eggs in one basket because we`re continuing to do whatever we need to do to obtain his testimony as we`ve compelled it.

HAYES: What is the timeline or you`re understanding of the timeline? This really does seem like once again we`re in a situation in which there`s sort of the law and then there`s the timeline of an investigation. And the obvious thing that Donald Trump and Steve Bannon and all those people like to do is just delay it until it`s -- you know essentially can`t -- you can`t keep doing it or it`s too long in the future to have much import.


RASKIN: No, we won`t tolerate perpetual denial here. And remember, we`re collecting evidence every single day. The vast majority of the people that we`ve reached out to are testifying voluntarily or they`re meeting with the committee. They`re doing interviews. We`re picking up lots of information about everybody and everything. And our goal of course is to present a comprehensive and detailed portrait of the events of January 6, the causes of January 6, and then what we need to do to prevent this from ever happening again.

But we`re certainly not going to let anything drag on for eight months, nine months, ten months, nothing like that. We`re on a much more rapid timetable. And if you think about it, what could be a more important issue than the safety of Congress and the security of democracy itself moving into the future. And the way we see it is this insurrection/coup is really still going with the big lie.

Just today, President Trump issued a statement asserting that the insurrection was on November 3rd. The day of the election is what he`s calling the insurrection, again to further confuse people and to cloud the issue. That demonstrates we`re in a continuing danger.

HAYES: Speaking of which, there was a strange moment today in the halls of Congress that I saw you speak to, and I just wanted to get first hand from you in which Marjorie Taylor Greene who`s a freshman Congresswoman from Georgia of course who has been -- doesn`t have any committees and you know, she tweets a lot I guess. She approached you and Liz Cheney, I believe. What happened?

RASKIN: Well, first she started shouting at me, when are you going to start to investigate the violence at Black Lives Matter protests. And I said, you know, we really should look into Kyle Rittenhouse and the two people he killed and the other violence that was ginned up by right-wing forces against Black Lives Matter. And then she began to mix it up with Liz Cheney.

I couldn`t follow all of it. Obviously, it`s been a continuing conversation there. But the part that I caught was when Congresswoman Greene was saying something to the effects of she never said that about Jewish space lasers. That was made up by the media.

HAYES: Yes, I just want to be clear here. She never used the phrase Jewish space laser. She said that the California wildfires may have been started by space lasers possibly under the control of the Rothschild family, so just to be clear on what she said here. I want to be -- make sure -- make sure that claim is very clear.

RASKIN: Well, I think she`s pressing that same point.

HAYES: Yes, no, I mean, you know, the people should know what she said. The final thing, is this -- is it a bit -- is she doing a world wrestling heel thing? Is it -- is it a person? I just -- what`s the deal?

RASKIN: I mean, it`s hard to know. I mean, she seems to be inspired by a lot of the QAnon mythologies and stories that are out there. And she`s certainly had a lot of contempt herself for Liz Cheney. And, you know, Liz Cheney has become a hero to millions of Americans by her constitutional patriotism, by the fact that she`s standing up for the rule of law far beyond a particular political party or a particular political leader.

But I think that her colleagues in the Republican conference are regarding her with great derision and contempt right now. And they`re basically seeing her as the anti-Trump. And you can choose Trump or you can choose Liz Cheney.

HAYES: Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you very much for your time.

RASKIN: Thank you so much, Chris.

HAYES: Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Fanone has been outspoken in his fight to get some accountability for the attack on January 6 not just for himself after he was beaten and tasered by the mob, but for hundreds of other officers there that day. So, I wanted to talk to him after the House vote today and say -- see what he thinks about the investigation get his reaction to the rioters who claim they were acting on Trump`s behalf. That interview next.



HAYES: Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Fanone says he could tell based on the tenor of the speeches from former President Donald Trump and his allies in the morning January 6 that it was going to be a difficult day, but he was not expecting a violent insurrection during which an angry mob would pull him into the crowd, beat him under the banner of a pro-police blue lives matter flag and repeatedly tase him at the base of his skull.

Well, thankfully, officer fanon says he is doing well in his recovery both mentally and physically. He says the trauma of what he experienced that day is exacerbated by politicians who refused to acknowledge the severity of what transpired.


FANONE: What makes the struggle harder and more painful is to know so many of my fellow citizens including so many of the people I put my life at risk to defend are downplaying or outright denying what happened. I feel like I went to hell and back to protect them and the people in this room. But too many are now telling me that hell doesn`t exist or that hell actually wasn`t that bad. The indifference shown to my colleagues is disgraceful.


HAYES: And Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Fanon joins me now. It`s good to have you back. And I wanted to first get your reaction to the vote today voting to issue this subpoena for Steve Bannon who sort of just kind of thumbed his nose of the committee. Nine Republicans voting yes, all Democrats voting yes and 209 Republicans voting no. What do you think of that?

FANONE: Well, I`m glad that they voted to enforce the subpoena. I mean, I`m coming at this from a law enforcement perspective. You know, we serve subpoenas pretty frequently. We certainly don`t need to take a vote of like the entire, I don`t know, D.C., U.S. Attorney`s Office or the Metropolitan Police Department to come to the conclusion that a subpoena needs to be enforced.

I mean, I feel bad for the members of the committee that have to go through this kind of, you know, circus just to enforce a subpoena.


HAYES: It`s interesting you just said that because I think you point to something that hangs over this entire story. You`re a -- you`re a police officer and you`ve spent your life and career as a police officer. And policing in America can be a very fraught topic. It could be polarizing in certain ways. And yet, the thing that stands out in this story is a group of people show up the Capitol and violently assaults a bunch of police officers, in some cases under a literal Blue Lives Matter Flag, you know, saying that they are there, you know, on the side of police against the unruly mobs.

I want to show this clip from the HBO documentary on this that actually shows this precise moment of you being assaulted underneath a Blue Lives Matter Flag. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I looked back to my right and Mike was gone. He just wasn`t there anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mob grabbed him, started pulling him down, and I was just like, oh no, this guy is like dead.

FANONE: A member of the crowd grabbed me and I remember hearing him yell out, you know, I got one.



HAYES: You can see that that Blue Lives Matter flag waving over that assault. And I just -- I wonder what -- how do you think about that when you see that footage, when you think about how the protesters see themselves in relation to law enforcement how -- you know, how Republicans talk about law enforcement and square that with what happened that day and what`s happened subsequently?

FANONE: I mean, I think this ties into a conversation that I`ve been having with my colleagues for quite some time. I don`t want police officers to be politicized. None of us do. Law enforcement does not want to be politicized. Unfortunately, you know, we`ve been pulled into, you know, the political arena over the past, I don`t know, eight, ten years. And it`s been, you know, detrimental to our effectiveness and our ability to do our jobs.

I mean, you know, there are some groups of people that love the police until they are preventing them from overthrowing you know, the Capitol complex and the government. And there`s other people that hate the police until they need a police officer, you know, and it`s just -- it`s unfortunate.

HAYES: One of the individuals who assaulted you or allegedly assaulted you, I should -- I should say, had a court date and his legal team is arguing as a kind of, you know, exculpatory argument that he believed he was -- he was told by the President of the United States to do this. The legal team of the Trump supporter who tased D.C. Metropolitan Officer Michael Fanon during the six -- January 6 insurrection has claimed that he was acting upon former President Donald Trump`s authorization that of course a grain of salt claim, it`s a legal claim, but I wonder what you think of that.

FANONE:" I mean, I don`t want to comment on the specifics of, you know, any of the criminal investigations that are taking place, specifically those in which I might be called as a witness. But I mean, I watched the documentary and it seems to be a common theme or common thread amongst individuals that participated in the insurrection at the Capitol building that day that they were acting under the orders of or felt that they had been directed and ordered by the President of the United States.

In my opinion, you`re still responsible for your actions whether you felt like you were authorized or not. Ultimately, you`re responsible for your actions. If I receive an order that I deem or feel to be unlawful and I choose to carry out that order as a police officer, I`m still responsible for the outcome.

HAYES: You are back on the force, the Metropolitan Police Department. I know that you had some leave after what had happened. And I`m just wondering how you`re -- how you`re doing.


FANON: I mean, in some respects, I`m glad to be back. I`m still on a limited duty. I`m looking forward to returning to full duty status, getting back to work.

HAYES: Have you -- I`m wondering what you feel like you`ve learned from the experience that you`ve gone through which has been I think not one that you anticipated from the moments that you were there in that crowd to the aftermath, your testimony before the House Committee, your -- the friendship that I think you formed with a lot of those Capitol Police Officers that were there that day, and how you think about what`s taken place in the last nine months that you now have had a little time to sort of process it all.

FANONE: I mean, I could tell you one thing. I`ve learned that I`ve got no taste for politics or the political arena. I`ve always kind of been a new bullshit kind of guy, and it seems to me like the only thing that that our, you know, elected leaders do well is bullshit. So, you will not see me running for any elected office whether it`s the PTA or Congress.

You know, I enjoy being a police officer. I feel bad for my colleagues at U.S. Capitol Police. A lot of effort has been put into analyzing the failures of that day whether it was, you know, their leadership within the department, command structure, but I think that a lot of the officers don`t feel like the, you know, recommendations there have been put into place.

I hope that those officers are afforded the resources, training, and manpower that they need to accomplish their mission. And I also hope that, you know, there`s a change in the leadership structure of the department.

HAYES: Last question for you. Michael, I know that you had been on Capitol Hill and had -- tried to meet with members -- across the aisle, I think you had productive meetings with members across the aisle. Some members particularly on the Republican side had not wanted to meet with you and I wonder if any of that has changed, if there are open lines of communication from some of those members who have now kind of I think unified in the view that the committee to their mind is what they call a partisan witch-hunt.

FANONE: Yes. I mean, again, I`ve talked about -- all I want and a lot of my colleagues that I speak with want is accountability for that day. Me, I want accountability both at the micro level which includes, you know, individuals who are criminally culpable for their actions on January 6th, lawmakers whose rhetoric may have incited or maybe they committed some overt action which resulted in the events of January 6th.

I want, you know -- I want law enforcement to learn lessons from what happened that day. But on a macro level, I want this country to engage in a broader discussion that`s, you know, above politics. You know, Donald Trump ultimately, I don`t believe was responsible for bringing us to where we`re at, the divisiveness that exists in this country. He just exploited it for his own personal gain.

But if we`re not going to have that conversation, we`re not going to engage in it honestly. You know, we`re doomed to repeat the activities of January 6th.

HAYES: Officer Michael Fanone of the Metropolitan Police Department, it`s great to talk to you again. I`m glad to see you`re doing well. And I hope I`ll get shocked you again soon.

FANONE: Thank you, sir.

HAYES: Nearly a year after offering a cash bounty to anyone who could turn over evidence of voter fraud, Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick has finally found his champion, a Pennsylvania democrat. And Pennsylvania Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman is right in the middle of this amazing story and he joins me next.



HAYES: One week after the presidential election, after all the major news outlets had declared Joe Biden a winner, Republican Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick announced a reward for up to $1 million to anyone who could provide evidence of voter fraud that led to a conviction. This is how he explained it on Fox News.


PATRICK: I set this program up, Shannon, to mirror crime stoppers. And crime stoppers, you know, there are people out there who apparently didn`t want to come forward on a major crime until there was a little incentive. So, I believe there are people who have a lot of information involved in voter fraud. Look at Wisconsin. Look at Michigan. Look at Pennsylvania. Look at Georgia.

And if they come forward and it leads to an arrest and a conviction like crime stoppers, I have up to $1 million from my campaign fund. I will give them a minimum of $25,000 depending on how severe the case is, how big the case is, maybe someone for the whole million.


HAYES: A lot going on there. One, you can see the insidious toxicity of the big lie starting right away. And just to be clear about what`s being offered here, Patrick was offering to take a potentially million dollars that Texans had donated to him for reelection and distribute it to some election version of Dog the Bounty Hunter so he could try to nail some cheating Democrats.

Perhaps to Patrick`s surprise, the Lieutenant Governor of Texas has quickly found a taker in the Democratic Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania John Fetterman. Fetterman relentlessly trolled Patrick with examples of Republicans committing voter fraud so often that a Fox News host read one of his tweets live on the air to Dan Patrick himself.


SHANNON BREAM, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: You have offered up or set up $1 million fund for people who are able to come to you with proven cases or evidence of fraud. Well, the Pennsylvania Lieutenant Governor, your counterpart, he wants to take you up on that. He says this. Hey., Governor Patrick, it`s your counterpart in Pennsylvania. I`d like to collect your handsome reward for reporting voter fraud. I got a dude in Forty Fort, Pennsylvania -- which I don`t even know -- is that a real town? But I guess it is.

PATRICK: It might be.

BREAM: Who tried to have his dead mom vote for Trump. I`d like mine in Sheetz gift cards please. P.S. the Cowboys blow. I`m sorry, he added that part.


HAYES: And just a few days after that happened, Lieutenant Governor Fetterman told Rachel Maddow that the few instances of voter fraud that had actually been found in Pennsylvania had been committed by Trump supporters.


FETTERMAN: My dude owes me at least $2 million. Yes, we had two instances of voter fraud in Pennsylvania that involved Republicans having relatives vote for Donald Trump, one living, one dead. We had a dead mom try to vote in Luzerne County. And then we had a Republican father who voted for Trump in Chester County and then left. About half an hour later, he came back wearing sunglasses and he tried to vote for his son who was a Democrat. So, I mean, this wasn`t the best and brightest.


HAYES: Despite all that, Dan Patrick almost made it an entire year without having to make good on his voter fraud bounty offer until now. That Republican father who tried to vote for his Democratic son in Pennsylvania that Fetterman told Rachel Maddow about back in November, the Dallas Morning News reports that he was turned in by a progressive poll worker named Eric Frank from you guessed it, Pennsylvania. And that is how the first and only Lieutenant Dan Voter Fraud bounty. $25,000 was paid to a Democrat for uncovering voter fraud by a Republican.

A spokesman for Dan Patrick declined to comment to the paper about the payout. I`m not sure anyone is happier than John Fetterman to see Texas Lieutenant Governor Patrick finally make good in his promise. The Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania joins me now.

Well, what do you think? I guess you did it or you helped -- you helped get it done.

FETTERMAN: Well, I mean he still needs to make it rain in Pennsylvania. I mean, we have a total of five cases, four involved deceased mothers voting for the former president. And then the one that my colleague paid the handsome reward to was the returns in sunglasses case as we referred to it who was a living father who voted for his Democratic son.

So, by our calculations, we have four more cases that were conviction -- that have led to actual convictions. They are all are on probation now. So, it would seem to me that there`s again, some more -- some more rewards that need to be paid out.

HAYES: Yes, $100k by my -- by my quick on-air math. Yes. Well, here`s the thing too that I think is really actually sort of brilliantly exposing about this is how many votes were cast in Pennsylvania, five million votes?

FETTERMAN: Nearly seven -- nearly seven million during that election. And that`s what`s so outrageous about it is five cases out of nearly seven million ballots cast. You have a greater chance of actually winning in the lottery than encountering genuine voter fraud in Pennsylvania during the election.

HAYES: This tis -- this is the point I think that it`s actually really important. I mean, I think people watching this program probably know this already, but what you see in what Dan Patrick was trying to do, right, is to cultivate this notion of there`s this widespread thing that`s happening all over the place and people are afraid to bring it up. It`s of course become kind of canon for conservatives and MAGA folks that this is the case.

And then, when you actually like really bear down, you actually really, really incentivize people to go find it, out of seven million votes cast, you end up with five in Pennsylvania, all of whom appear apparently committed the fraud on behalf of Donald Trump.

FETTERMAN: Yes. I mean, it`s a startling statistic to realize that out of nearly seven million ballots, only five are fraudulent. It also happens to be hilarious that they were all uniformly for Republicans voting for President Trump. I mean, when the reverse of the narrative is constantly spun that its Democrats that are cheating. But in Pennsylvania, again, seven million ballots cast, five million ballots for President Trump. They were all caught, charged, arrested, convicted, and now they`re all on probation.

So, I mean, we`re batting a thousand in terms of stamping out voter fraud in our state, and as a result, Joe Biden still won by more than 80 000 votes.


HAYES: Texas Governor Greg Abbott -- the position of Secretary of State in Texas had been unfilled. And unlike many states where that is an elected position, it`s appointed by the governor. Today, he appointed a lawyer named John Scott to be the Texas secretary of state who was part of Donald Trump`s team trying to block the certification of Pennsylvania`s election. What do you think about someone working on that issue trying to stop your state`s votes from counting now being tasked with running the elections in the state of Texas?

FETTERMAN: I mean, it`s like -- it`s like drafting a player from a team that went one in 59 in the last season. So, I mean, this wasn`t exactly home of the -- so this wasn`t a talent farm that really generated a lot of victories, again one for 59. But it does -- it does illustrate in my mind that Texas isn`t serious about actual voter fraud because when you analyze actual voter fraud, it`s five cases out of seven million ballots like it is in Pennsylvania.

And bear in mind, Chris. We did two risk limiting audits. One was a statistical one generated by law and then another one which had 63 out of our 67 counties participating in and found zero evidence of any fraud whatsoever. I mean, these results were secure and we know exactly that they were true.

HAYES: Well, I don`t know if you got a $100,000 in Sheets gift cards coming your way, Pennsylvania Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman, but we will -- we will continue to monitor that. Thank you very much.

FETTERMAN: Well 50 for Sheets, 50 for Wawa, you know -- I mean -- but I`m flexible that way. Thanks for having me.

HAYES: That`s a Pennsylvania politician right there. Don`t go anywhere. Michael Daly is here with an inside look at the police union meltdowns over COVID mitigation efforts. You don`t want to miss it. We`ll be right back.



HAYES: If you watch this show, you probably know that I grew up in the Bronx. I talked about it a lot, I`m very proud of it. I love the borough. My brother Luke and I went to public schools in the Bronx. The elementary school that I went to, my brother went there briefly, was called PS83 in the Morris Park Neighborhood. It`s now known as the Donald Hertz School. A great place where I met some lifelong friends like Desus Nice, then known as Daniel Baker, still Daniel Baker, now one of the stars of Showtime`s Desus and Mero.

Here`s a photo of me as a kid with some of my buddies at the time at PS83. I`m second to the left here in the blue with the kind of Bon Jovi do with my friends Richard, and Chris, and John. By the way, all three of those guys I`ve lost touch with them. If you`re out there, hi.

Here`s a class picture from one year. That`s me in the very front with the blue shirt and the vest looking pretty stylish, I got to say, right behind the sign. Well, yesterday, the first Lady of the United States Dr. Jill Biden, who`s also an educator, paid a surprise visit to my elementary school. I found out about it through AOC`s Instagram. You can see AOC is there in the back. She also has that district -- that school in her district.

Biden arrived with an armful of chocolate chip cookies, spoke with teachers about what it was like to work during the pandemic. Dr. Biden also honored PS83 teacher Linda Collins with a standing ovation for her 50 years of service to the New York City Department of Education, which means she was teaching that school back when I was a student there.

I have to say as a uh now public school parent whose mother, my beloved mother worked as an educator and administrator in the New York City School System, it is so wonderful to see someone like miss Collins get her due. Even more wonderful to have kids back in school this year. And I have to say, I`m just so, so, so, so, so grateful for the thousands of teachers and staff who have made it possible. Thank you.



HAYES: John Catanzara joined the Chicago Police Department in 1995. And over the past 26 years in the force, he`s had a bit of a troubled past. Back in 2017, he posted this image of himself with a sign reading, I stand for the anthem. I love the American flag. I support my president and the second amendment.

He was suspended for that but that was not his first disciplinary run-in. According to ProPublica, he has been suspended seven times from 1995 and 2017 for a total of 111 days. Just to give some perspective on how rare these suspensions are, only seven other officers on the job since 1995 have been suspended that many times. He`s in very, very, very rare company.

Then, last year, May of 2020 John Catanzara was elected president of the Chicago Police Union. Despite the fact that two Chicago police superintendents have independently tried to fire him and that he has relieved of his powers and under investigation by the department.

Then in February of this year, he was suspended again without pay for a laundry list of things like making obscene and inflammatory social media posts, filing a false report, and being insubordinate to supervisors.

After the Trump mob stormed the Capitol and injured about 140 officers, Catanzara said it was "not the level of violence we saw across many parts of the country this past summer during the Black Lives Matter protests.


JOHN CATANZARA, PRESIDENT, CHICAGO POLICE UNION: I didn`t see anybody literally throwing frozen bottles, bricks, or shooting fireworks at the police. They were simply trying to push past the police to get access to the building.


HAYES: Now, that`s not accurate as you can all see. He later apologized for that. And now, John Catanzara is facing off against Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot over her requirement that all city employees either get vaccinated or test twice a week until the end of the year when they will all have to be vaccinated.

In response, he said, and I am quoting here, "We`re in America, god damn it. We don`t want to be forced to do anything, period. This isn`t NAZI effing Germany. Step into the effing showers. The pills won`t hurt you. What the F."

He later apologized for that too. Last week, a judge ordered Catanzara to stop making YouTube videos and social media posts encouraging police to defy the city`s vaccine order. The ruling came after he implored fellow cops to hold the line in resisting mitigation efforts even though coronavirus was the leading cause of death for police officers both this year and in 2020.

Michael Daly, special correspondent for the Daily Beast has been covering the cop beat for years and years and he just did an interview with a celebrated Chicago police veteran who said "Chicago Police, go get fully vaccinated. Stop listening to all these freaking mopes." Michael Daly joins me now.

Michael, who is this police officer you talked to for this piece?

MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, DAILY BEAST: Jack DeHeer is -- he`s a rough and tumble cop. When I was interviewing him, he just called out to his wife he said, when did i get shot in the head, and she said 1992. He goes, yes, 1992. He got shot in the head, he could have just retired with a disability. He was determined to go back. He came back and then he got in a car chase involving a kidnapping and he got banged up badly in that. And that led to a foot chase where he had a massive heart attack and that he ended up out under disability in 2000. And so, he`s -- all he wanted to do was keep being a cop. He loved being a cop.


And he came a day when he`s sitting -- last November he`s sitting in his kitchen, his wife`s out and he`s sitting there in the kitchen and he`s in a -- he`s been in a wheelchair on and off. He`s disabled. He`s feeling pretty down. And all of a sudden, he reads a newspaper article about a vaccine trial for a Johnson & Johnson vaccine, and he goes this is it. This is what I`ve been waiting for.

Because in his mind, all of a sudden here`s a chance to undergo a little risk and maybe save thousands of lives. And what`s better for that -- than that if you`re you know a real C-O-P. So, he figures, I`m going to do this. He signs up. They`re thrilled to have him because they usually get people who can like, you know, reasonably well put together. He`s banged up. His lungs are messed up from rescuing people from -- carbon monoxide suicide attempts and fires. And he`s got the bullet wound and he`s still recovering from all the injuries from the car wreck, so he`s like their kind of guy, because if he can survive this vaccine, anybody can.

So they -- he joins the trial. He says, I really -- you know, they say it`s double-blind or placebo and he says well, I want the real stuff. And you know, they said, I won`t tell you. So, you know, give me the real stuff. And then comes the day that they unblind the trial and he finds out he got the real stuff. So, now he`s thrilled. And now the vaccine has been approved and he figures he`s going to tell his old cop buddies and they`re going to go yes, it figures Jack would do something like that, right? And he figured they`d go yes, it figures. But then they would get complimentary and because he`d done this great thing to save lives.

So he said -- what happened was they called me a lab rat. And what he had not known being outside actually being a cop was how much of that misinformation and poison kind of filters back into these guys and how when they feel that there`s -- that there`s this political divide, they start accepting everything that comes from what they view as their side and start resisting anything that`s from the other side, and all of a sudden, he`s a lab rat.

And he`s really -- he`s not happy about the cops that won`t take the vaccine. I mean, he went through all this trouble to get a vaccine and he - - they won`t take it? I mean, that is what you wish that -- that`s what leadership should touch in cops, the part of them that really loves being a cop, that wants to protect and serve like it says on the side of the radio car.

And the really good ones, that`s what they want to do. And I mean, if you could touch that, you could get him to do it. I mean -- and there`s stuff with the union leaders said, we don`t like being told what to do. I mean if you look up the regulations -- and not only got to wear bulletproof vests but it dictates what size the labels have to be. The labels have to be in English, where the labels are placed. I mean, everything. I mean, they have to wear seat belts.

I mean, there`s like 9,000 -- I mean, those charges he got, those are all things that they have -- they`re told to do that he didn`t do. So --

HAYES: There`s some -- there`s something remarkable about the backlash to it precisely for that reason. One, because it`s about public safety, fundamentally. And two, you know, it`s -- yes, these are not like -- we`re not talking about -- it`s not a Montessori school. It`s not like, you know, this is not an organization where like you don`t have a lot of rules and regulations and stuff you got to do.

DALY: No. But the other thing is -- the sad thing is that this all played out police week which is the week where fallen officers are honored in Washington. And the families of four Chicago cops who died of COVID were there. So, all this is going on while you got these cops who died of COVID, four cops died of COVID -- out of five cops that died in the last year, four died of COVID.

There was one young woman who was shot to death and a cop was shot in the eye. And you can`t say these -- that these cops were afraid of the needles. Because they saw this guy, this woman get killed and saw the other guy get shot in the eye, and they kept making gun powers. They`ve been making more gun powers than ever. So, they`re out there making powers and they`re taking their lives in their hands every time they do. But you come to this thing with the vaccine. It`s not -- I don`t think it`s fear. I think it`s something else.

I think it`s -- I think we`re all trying to figure out exactly what it is.


DALY: But it`s sad when it affects people who are supposed to be our protectors. If you don`t get that vaccine, you`re endangering other people. I don`t care what you say.

HAYES: That`s exactly right. Michael Daly, that piece, you can read it at The Daily Beast. It`s always a pleasure. Michael, thank you so much for coming on.

DALY: Thank you.

HAYES: All right, that is ALL IN on this Thursday night. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thank you, my friend. Much, much, much appreciated. And thanks to at home for joining us this hour. Very rarely does a politician have to put his or her money where his or her mouth is. I can`t remember the last time we covered a story where a politician basically made a public bet --