Transcript: The 11th Hour with Brian Williams, October 1, 2020

Oct. 2, 2020, 3:00 AM UTC

Summary

White House adviser Hope Hicks tested positive for the coronavirus, prompting quarantine for President Donald Trump and First Lady Melania Trump, who announced they also tested positive later Thursday night. CDC guidelines indicate trump should self-quarantine. Trump blasts possible debate rule changes.

Transcript

LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: These poll numbers are going your way. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.

MIKE ESPY, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE: Thank you so much, Lawrence, I appreciate this.

O'DONNELL: Mike Espy gets Tonight's Last Word. The 11th Hour with Brian Williams starts now.

BRIAN WILLIAMS, MSNBC HOST: Well, good evening once again. Day 1,351 of this Trump administration, 33 days until the presidential election.

As you can see there is breaking news tonight involving the President and coronavirus. And here it is, as of a few minutes ago. The President has just tweeted this out. He is announcing he's headed into quarantine.

"Hope Hicks, who has been working so hard without even taking a small break has just tested positive for COVID-19. Terrible. The First Lady and I are waiting for our test results. In the meantime, we will begin our quarantine process."

Indeed, Hope Hicks has tested positive for coronavirus. Few aids are closer to the President. She was with him yesterday for his rally in Duluth, Minnesota was unmasked at least one photo was taken of her. She flew out and back with him on Air Force One.

Tonight, Trump talked about hope Hicks during an interview with Sean Hannity on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She did test positive. I just turned about this. She tested positive. She's a hard worker. A lot of masks, she's wears masks a lot, but she tested positive. Then I just went out with a test. I'll see what, you know, because we spent a lot of time in the First Lady just went out with a test also. So whether we quarantine or whether we have it. I don't know. You know, it's very hard when you're with soldiers, when you're with airman, we're with the marines and with -- and the police officers and with them so much. And when they come over here, it's very hard to say stay back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Lots of decipher there and a lot of questions arising from the President's comments. He's been bragging about the instant tests they have at the White House. So let's figure he was tested two hours ago, even one hour ago, one would presume those results are in, are they having secondary testing underway.

Hope Hicks, for her part has been traveling with the President throughout the campaign, again, in very close proximity and for several hours every day. She's been a Trump aide dating back to the 2016 campaign, you'll recall, she did leave the White House to work for the Fox Corporation in L.A. before coming back to service in the West Wing.

Meanwhile, Trump has been under attack for two days for refusing to condemn white supremacy and the political portion of our lives. Tonight, during an interview that same interview with Sean Hannity on Fox, he went with a change in language.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Yeah, I've said of it many times and let me be clear, again, I condemn the KKK. I condemn all white supremacists. I condemn the Proud Boys. I don't know much about the Proud Boys almost nothing but I condemn that. But he should condemn also Antifa. Antifa is a horrible group of people. It's a different standard, total hypocrisy. It's a disgrace. But I think that people are wise to Sean, I really do. The people are wise to it. Every time you do something, every time you say and then Chris Wallace asked me the same, almost the same question last time. And, you know, it's just, it's a shame. It's a shame that they can get away with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Today, the White House was pressed indeed to detail Trump's views on white supremacy and militia groups operating within our country. What we heard earlier this same day was far less than definitive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: As the person who speaks for the president, does the President denounce white supremacism and groups that is founded (ph) in all your forms?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This has been answered yesterday by the President himself the day before by the President himself on the debate stage, the President was asked this. He said sure, three times. Yesterday, he was point blank asked, do you denounce white supremacy? And he said, I've always denounced any form of that.

ROBERTS: Just to clear it up this morning, can you name it, make a declarative statement that you denounce -- that the President denounces?

MCENANY: I just did. The President has denounced this repeatedly. And the President was asked this, you're making -- you're contriving a storyline in a narrative --

ROBERTS: No, I'm not. I'm just asking you to put this to rest.

MCENANY: I just did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: You may recall that at the debate, Trump was asked to denounce the Proud Boys, militia group by name. Yesterday, he said he didn't know who they were.

The White House defense and the President's words brought this reaction from John Roberts of Fox News who you just saw there in that exchange with Kayleigh McEnany.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: If the President didn't know who Proud Boys were, and Joe Biden just threw out the name. If he didn't know who they were, why did he denounce them? Why didn't you say, I don't know who they are? Can you give me a little bit more information about them and then make a decision about it? So this is -- this all remains very puzzling. And for all of you on Twitter who are hammering me for answering that -- for asking that question, I don't care, because it's a question that needs to be asked. And clearly, the President's Republican colleagues a mile away from here are looking for an answer for it too. So stop deflecting, stop blaming the media. I'm tired of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: And tonight, Trump who misses very little on television and even less on Fox News had this to say about John Roberts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Kayleigh is this incredible person and she was abused by John Roberts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Amid all of this, NBC News has obtained Department of Homeland Security internal talking points, directing federal law enforcement officials to make public sympathetic comments about the young man named Kyle Rittenhouse. He's the 17-year old who was charged with fatally shooting to protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin in August with an AR-15.

Rittenhouse supported Trump and police on his social media pages before he traveled from his home in Illinois, across the state line to Wisconsin. Those Homeland Security documents suggested officials, "Note that he took his rifle to the scene of the rioting to help defend small business owners."

Back in August Trump was asked if he condemned the actions by Rittenhouse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He was trying to get away from them, I guess, it looks like. And he fell and then they very violently attack him. I guess he was in very big trouble. He would have been -- he probably would have been killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Americans in several states are already voting. Here we are 33 days out even as the President escalates his unfounded attacks on mail-in voting and the integrity of our election.

One former FBI agent who's called Trump a national security threat says Trump's words are weakening our democracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER STRZOK, FORMER FBI CHIEF OF COUNTERESPIONAGE SECTION: When the President gets up there and says that he sees all these instances of fraud which don't exist in reality, there is no data, there is no evidence to support his assertions. What he is doing is one, undermining the faith of Americans in their electoral process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Trump is also now lashing out at the possibility that the rules for his next debate with Biden could change. "Why would I allow the Debate Commission to change the rules for the second and third debates when I easily won last time?"

Here's what Trump said on this topic just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're dealing with very tricky people here. But I think you remember that very well. They modulated my mic and they say I won all of the debates. I was in 16, 17 debates, they say I won all of the debates. I like this format. He was the one that interrupted me.

WILLIAMS: Along with the Vice-Presidential Debate, remember there are two remaining presidential debates. There's the calendar. We mentioned Trump Aide Hope Hicks testing positive for COVID-19. That makes her one of the more than 7.3 million Americans known to be infected.

Her boss has been talking about the possibility of a vaccine perhaps even before Election Day. Tonight, Jonathan Lemire of the Associated Press, who is indeed standing by to join us reports that the CEO of Pfizer, one of the bigger companies working on a vaccine is now pushing back on the President's timeline, and vowing not to bend to political pressure.

But coronavirus in some form or fashion remains our lead story tonight and with that as the backdrop let's bring in our leadoff discussion on this Thursday evening, Nancy Cook, White House Reporter for Politico, the aforementioned Jonathan Lemire, White House Reporter with The Associated Press, and Dr. Vin Gupta, an E.R. doc specializing in these kinds of illnesses, also as an affiliate assistant professor with the University of Washington Department of Health Metric Sciences.

We have a lot to get to. Jonathan, I know you and Nancy have been working the phones. When did the White House find out about Hope Hicks, and I'm asking specifically because she was on yesterday's trip and, you know, the confines of the helicopter, the aircraft and the tight group of people around the President on the road in holding rooms on the like?

JONATHAN LEMIRE, ASSOCIATED PRESS WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Brian, the White House realized last night Wednesday night got the diagnosis of Hope Hicks who is indeed one of the President's very closest advisors. So they've known from last night that she had tested positive for the coronavirus. And let's indeed let's walk through the chronology of the week. Tuesday night she accompanied the President to the first general election debate in Cleveland. Yesterday, she was in Minnesota. She traveled with him for a couple stops in Minnesota, including a rally, traveled with him on not just Air Force One but on Marine One. It is protocol for staff to wear masks in the presidential helicopter, but it is extraordinarily close quarters.

Hope, we're told via White House aides is one of the White House staffers who does wear masks from time to time, a lot never do. But her mask usage is not 100%. No one is. It's not clear when exactly she might have worn the mask on Air Force One the last couple of days. And it's extraordinary here, the President, just a tweet a few minutes ago suggested that he and the First Lady were in a quarantine process.

Now I'll defer to the doctor to exactly what that means. But typically the CDC guidelines suggest quarantine could be up to 14 days, which would more or less be half of the time left before Election Day.

Now we believe we're calling the White House and calling Trump advisors exactly what he means. It could be that he is simply meaning waiting for the result of another test. But that in itself raises questions. They have rapid tests at the White House, anyone who's going to come into contact with the President, and that includes members of the press pool, do get these Abbott rapid tests where results are usually known in about a half an hour. And that one presumes the President would have had already. So it stands to reason that he has had yet another test. And they're still perhaps waiting for that result. That is what he said in the tweet. One of the more accurate tests that takes a little longer up to a few hours before they know what it is.

At least for now, Brian, as a final point, the White House schedule is still full tomorrow. The President was set -- is set to go to a fundraiser here in Washington and then travel to a rally tomorrow night at Florida. I'll be part of the press pool going on that trip. Those events are still on as of now and it should be noted. The White House knew of Hope Hicks' diagnosis Wednesday night. Today, Thursday, there is no sign of hope. But the President who had been exposed to Hope Hicks still traveled to a fundraiser in Bedminster, New Jersey.

WILLIAMS: OK, Doctor, you're on deck and you know the questions already. What does it mean to you that he mentioned quarantine in this tweet tonight? And here's a subject you and I have talked about on this broadcast. The President in positively pulpy alien terms has shills for the Abbott quick turnaround test. He has displayed the product and pushed it from the Rose Garden of the White House. We know it to be in use at the White House. Does this to you, this two hour delay mean perhaps that the results on one test have come in and we are waiting the more accurate results of another?

DR. VIN GUPTA, MSNBC MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Good evening, Brian. There's a lot to get through. Before I get there, I just want to say, first of all, I hope Hope Hicks is doing OK. At the end of the day, she's COVID positive. And this virus depending regardless of your age, can have devastating impact. So I hope she's OK.

To your question, this is where timing of exposure is vital. Vital information not just for the President's health, for the First Lady's inner circle, but frankly, for the American people and the people of Wisconsin because he's going to have a rally there regardless. I know he moved it, but he's still going to have a rally. Because what they are doing right now will be an example for holiday travel in just a few months -- in just a few weeks.

Here's the thing, quarantining is actually the right move. He should cancel the Wisconsin rally. And here's my quarantine matters it depends on when he got exposed, did he get exposed to Hope? He got out -- he definitely got exposed within the last 24 hours on Air Force One. We know that there's recirculated air in a plane, but it's not perfect. Were they wearing masks? I'm assuming their public behavior is probably indicative of their private behavior on an airplane cabin. I'm assuming they were not masking. So the chance that he got exposed is relatively high.

Here's the problem with the Abbott ID NOW tests or any test, the time between exposure and the testing positive depends on something called the incubation period. It can take 24 to 48 to 72 hours between exposure and when the test turns positive. So not only should he get a test today, he should get the best type of test. The Abbott ID now test is not a good test. It's false negative rate is anywhere from 30 to 50%. That's not my opinion. Those are studies being done on that test. It's not a good test. So what they should do is they should do the highest quality lab based tests on the president. Make sure that he is indefinitely negative today and then also in 72 hours canceling Wisconsin rally.

WILLIAMS: And Dr. Gupta, oh, by the way, I'm reminded, Jonathan Lemire reminded us, the President was feet away from Joe Biden unmasked but distanced spewing exhalations both of them for 90 minutes a couple of nights ago.

GUPTA: Well, Brian, you nailed it there. It's a speaking without a mask can emanate, can cause droplets airborne particles to leave your mouth, yelling like the President was yelling a lot, and basically showered the entire audience, not just the vice president with droplets of COVID-19. So everybody should be tested all his close contacts on Air Force One should be tested.

Now, it should be tested again in 72 hours because of that incubation period, the Wisconsin rally and all events should be canceled. This is not a political matter. This is a matter of urgent public health. He should not go into Wisconsin, in any city and Wisconsin and have a rally when he could potentially be that vector of disease and unwittingly exposed people. So that's create, that's really important.

WILLIAMS: OK, Nancy, we recognize that during this conversation, this could all be moot. The President's public schedule for tomorrow came out about 15 minutes before our airtime. It could all have changed travel schedule may have changed. What do you take from his mentioned of the cue word quarantine?

NANCY COOK, POLITICO WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think someone told him probably that he had to say that. I mean, he's been very blocky about the coronavirus since the beginning, and has repeatedly said, oh, it's going to be over soon. Hope Hicks is his closest aide to test positive but there have been other people around the president who have also tested positive including one of his personal military valets, and the Vice President's top spokesperson, Katie Miller.

And so this is not the first time that President Trump has come in close contact with someone who has contacted COVID-19. I think Hicks is just the latest example. But the President has never taken up that seriously. He's never modeled the CDC recommended behavior mask, especially distance. And I was on the trip yesterday with him to Minnesota. He was traveling with Hope Hicks, but also all of his top aides and none of them as I saw them get off the plane and on the plane, none of them were wearing masks.

And really, it was his whole inner circle that was with him, including the Chief of Staff Jared Kushner, Dan Scavino, Stephen Miller, really his closest aides. And so I will be really curious in the coming days to see if there is more widespread exposure among that inner circle. And then what this potentially means, as Jonathan said earlier for the campaign, they're really under so much pressure now, the President has been consistently behind in the polls. And I'll be curious to see if you have to cancel any political events or take time out of the campaign trail during the last 30 something days to deal with this.

WILLIAMS: Jonathan Lemire, based on reporting and observation, would you agree with me that the employees like the valet, and the aide to the Vice President were several degrees of magnitude, less exposure than this one? It was joked about on television as recently as tonight that there are Trump's family members who wish they had the daily kind of FaceTime sustained exposure and access to the president that Hope Hicks enjoys. There are few I can think of who are at that level.

LEMIRE: Hope Hicks is one of the President's closest aides and without question, this is now the closest he has come to the coronavirus. Hope Hicks was one of the original campaign staffers. She was there from the early days of 2015. Originally, she had worked for Ivanka Trump, did some PR work for her, for her business, and eventually moved over to the president, to Donald Trump's then very fledgling presidential campaign and earned a -- earn his trust. She rewarded him with loyalty. And she was there as press secretary for that campaign. One who didn't interact with reporters on the record all that much, but was a constant traveling companion, and one of the President's closest allies.

And in fact, when she eventually departed the White House a year or so ago, you know, he really took it hard. And when he told aides that he really missed her, she then returned moving into the senior role, and has been more of a behind the scenes presence, but she is still there, certainly, for all the biggest moments.

And I think what's happened certainly tonight, Brian, is it goes to show that no matter how hard the President tries to wish this virus away that it will disappear. He always says that we're rounding the corner, he says. He cannot run it. This virus has shattered his entire year, it has shattered his presidency. It's claimed the lives of 200,000 Americans and put 10s of millions out of work. It has changed the rhythms of day-to-day life. And it has become the defining issue of this campaign as much as the President wants this to be a choice election between himself and Joe Biden we saw him effort that on Tuesday night, with his loud interruptions and badgering of the former vice president, it hasn't been. This election to this point has been -- this campaign has been a referendum on how the President has handled this virus. And the American public in polling has made clear they don't think he's done a good job, which is why, as Nancy said, he is facing these deficits in the polls, including in all these key battleground states with just over a month ago, and he's got an extraordinarily aggressive campaign schedule coming up. He is supposed to be in Florida tomorrow, Wisconsin on Saturday. There's talks of a West Coast Swing next week, for trying to Florida, Pennsylvania, which is it team believes is the key state this election.

And if he were to be sidelined, when certainly if he worked against sick, it is hard to even fathom what that does to the homestretch of this campaign. It would certainly be a devastating blow to the President, and who won -- who would risk if he were to continue out there, potentially infecting lots of others.

He came into close contact today with dozens of supporters at this fundraiser in Bedminster, New Jersey after a confirmed exposure to Hope Hicks, who had -- who has now tested positive for COVID-19. He cannot run this virus, Brian. This is the defining issue, and he may have just been delivered a devastating blow.

WILLIAMS: Dr. Gupta, I'm going to read from our colleague Shannon Pettypiece on Twitter, "This stood out to me too, during the Fox News interview, because whatever you think about the president and his utterances, he says, little that is not planned. He says little by accident."

Shannon writes, Trump links Hope getting COVID to being around service members. "It is very, very hard when you are with people from the military, and they come over to you and they want to hug you and kiss you because we really have done a good job for them. You get close, and things happen."

I'm just wondering that that leads me to the question, Dr. Gupta, who does contact tracing for the West Wing? And who do we rely on for the real deal? All we know tonight is the President has told us on Twitter, they're beginning the quarantine process. We've had problems with the reliability of even the White House physician. Remember back to Dr. Ronnie Jackson, and his prognosis based on the President's health. Remember the still unexplained trip to Walter Reed, on a weekend morning for the president, which various things have been denied, but never a full explanation. So it's a mess. But I'm wondering, who actually is the controlling authority on this?

GUPTA: Well, first of all, I just want to say Brian, since you brought it up. I'm an ICU doc and Air Force reserves now here Joint Base Lewis-McChord, and so I'm going to stick up for our people and with the DOD has done for policies and procedures to keep servicemembers safe. The notion that a servicemember was potentially the cause of this exposure and highlighting that is an affront to what the DOD has done and what the various services have done to keep us all safe. So that's just not true. The implication is wrong. So that's number one.

Number two, Brian, you bring up an excellent point. The devil is in the details here, and Americans need to know the circumstances and the parameters by which Hope Hicks became positive because it matters for all of us to understand that Hope Hicks practice the best of procedures, does she masked? Did she wear an N-95, for example? I doubt it. Does she get a quick test before and then after? What type of test? Because understanding the parameters of her exposure and why she turned out positive to the best of our abilities is key to informing the American public on what isn't is not safe when it comes to travel? What isn't is not safe when it comes to hopping on a flight? Is everybody getting contact traced?

Jonathan mentioned that the President was out today. Everybody has that fundraiser, frankly, should be taught, should be touching base with those individuals to make sure they're doing OK, potentially even test them if it turns out that the President is positive.

So the President needs to take this very seriously for his own sake, or his own inner circle sake, but for the American people, and he absolutely needs to cancel the Wisconsin rally. There is no questions about that, that needs to be cancelled until we at least have two tests that are negative before he were to go out on any type of travel schedule, which of course we all frown upon, anyway.

WILLIAMS: Doctor, thank you for that and our guests are going to stay with us. The headline at this hour remains the same, the President announcing on social media that he and the First Lady are beginning the quarantine process after exposure to close White House aide Hope Hicks, who has tested positive for the coronavirus.

Indeed, CNN is reporting tonight that she is symptomatic with the coronavirus. We're going to be joined by our own White House Correspondent. All of our guests are going to remain. We're going to fit in a break in our breaking news coverage which continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: We're back at 27 minutes after the hour. And as you've been following, as you can see at the bottom of the screen, the President has announced that he and the First Lady have begun the quarantine process. Why? Because the President has been exposed to close aide Hope Hicks. "Hope Hicks, who has been working so hard without even taking a small break has just tested positive for COVID-19. Terrible. The First Lady and I are waiting for our test results. In the meantime, we will begin our quarantine process."

That's what we know. We know that sometime in the nine o'clock hour it sounded like the President was headed to get a test there is an elaborate White House physician's office on campus to service the President, the family and close aides as needed.

We know the President has for months bragged on the idea that they have the Abbott brand name quick turnaround test. We know that there is another circle of testing because of initial false negatives and positives that can happen. We also know that this could be a Herculean job of contact tracing, given the places the President has gone, i.e. a closed door fundraiser today in New Jersey and the people who have been in contact with him. He foreshadowed members of the military, interestingly, in an interview earlier tonight.

So for the latest, we're joined by our own NBC News Chief White House Correspondent, Hallie Jackson. Hallie, presumably you've been following the coverage what is known to us, I'd love to know what is known to you and what you've been able to gather and given this diagnosis, what in the world was anyone doing in and around the circle of Hope Hicks?

HALLIE JACKSON, NBC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So let me let me start with the first part of that question, Brian. Obviously been on the phone tonight and just spoke with a source familiar with some of this who sheds a bit more light on the timeline here and I want to share that with you here. I'm going to look at my notes while we're talking, that some of the details are still fluid.

A couple of sources tell us Hicks tested negative for the virus yesterday morning that is before that trip to Minnesota. But, by the way, it was not showing symptoms at that time. She apparently began showing some minor symptoms sometime late yesterday evening, sometime around the time of the rally. It's not clear if it was before, during but after the rally on the way home on Air Force One. She did according to this source quarantine on the plane, her test came back positive.

We're hearing this morning, and that is when contact tracing was done. Why is this timeline important? Brian? Well, that is the second part of your question, right, which is what are people around her circle doing?

President Trump today right later in the day traveled on his plane, he went to Bedminster, he went to New Jersey he held a fundraising event as you and your guests have been talking about here and then came back home.

Now -- there's -- we need to be clear, there's information that we do not know, right. We know the president says he's had a test. We don't know what specific kind of test that is. We know the rapid tests that the White House gives to for example, me if I'm a member of the pool, other reporters who are a part of that pool, whomever come back fairly quickly, right. It appears that may or may not be the case here since the President said he's waiting for a test tonight or tomorrow morning.

We know that the President is talking about quarantining. Now he's going to do that with the First Lady, as he said in that tweet, and there are these sort of breadcrumbs that are being dropped by the President himself.

I imagine that at some point, either in the wee hours of tonight or early tomorrow morning, we will find out more about this because it is obviously incredibly significant, and affects a lot of the President's movements. You know, he had this full schedule tomorrow. It looks as though that is not going to be the case. But there are some serious questions here about what happens from here.

You have to remember and I know that your guests have talked about this. But just to underscore this, I've covered Donald Trump for a long time, for a number of years. And hope Hicks is has always been around even when she wasn't at the White House, right. She was always a voice. She was always somebody who has had a presence in the Trump orbit. And that means not just with the President.

But Brian, with practically all the senior staff in the White House, our team has just put together a list of all the people that were on the plane with Hicks, for example, on the Air Force One headed to Tuesday night's debate on Marine One with her, on the plane traveling to the rally, obviously yesterday. It is a who's who of every single important person in Donald Trump's orbit.

Right now, it's not clear what close contact or contact tracing means for some of these folks. We know talking to some aides and people who were near her that some of these people are not going to be quarantining. They've been advised that that is not necessary at this point, because they didn't have sustained close contact with Hicks.

But there are some real question marks in this group. We're talking about members of the President's family. Brian, remember the President's whole family, all of his adult kids were with him for the debate on Tuesday night along with Hicks. They were traveling on the plane together. So these are questions that we're trying to find out some answers to.

But it is obviously a moment in which this is a real reality check, frankly, and a gut check for this White House. It's a president who just a couple of days ago, frankly mocked Joe Biden for wearing what he described as a big mask has not done social distancing. His White House as recently as today defended that, talking about how they believe that Donald Trump supporters have the right to go to rallies and not social distance and not wear masks if they choose not to, to in a way, you know, exercise their first amendment right, if you will.

So this is obviously a significant thing. And we're working on reporting out more details, Brian.

WILLIAMS: All right, Holly, if you should come into more possession of more information, you know, the drill, text us, call us way wildly into the camera. Thank you, though, for updating especially the timeline details that we didn't know. The points Hallie raises. Bring us back to Dr. Vin Gupta.

And Dr., as Holly was speaking, we're looking at the pictures of boarding Air Force One and there indeed, is Hope Hicks, Dan Scavino, the President's social media director is there. Miller is next door when they're walking to the chopper.

But he or she is talking to and breathing all over. The president's son in law and senior White House aide, Jared Kushner, again, we're living in an era where mask wearing has become politicized, no more so than those around the president.

And this again brings up your comments on the clock when people begin to present as positive, when people perhaps begin to present symptomatically and how long contact tracing has to go on, how long it has to wait until after the suspected first contact.

GUPTA: Brian, that was a great summary and really those are the vital questions. I have to say I am deeply concerned for the President's welfare, his inner circle as welfare, those that they've exposed because of the finding that Hope Hicks is symptomatic. That is enormously important here.

And so there's a few things, if she's symptomatic, the risk that she's exposed someone else, especially the president is just given his role. But anybody on that flight is much higher than if she was, for example, say asymptomatic or was pre-symptomatic. There's a lot of we just don't know, right? Because we don't know when the clock started.

The fact that she had an initial negative test, it speaks to one of two things. Number one was the test. If it's the Abbott ID now test. NYU scientists study that test. This is not my opinion. They study that test. A few months ago, they found that the false negative rate with that test is quite high anywhere from 30 to 50 percent.

Again, was that Tuesday tests before she hopped on the flight, was it a false negative? Or was she incubating the virus? And is that the test was it going to turn positive? Anyways, regardless of the type of test, so that's question one.

Question two, is everybody this notion, this nonsense that some people on that flight should not get quarantine and they shouldn't get?

People that were exposed to the president today they should -- they should they should get retested in 72 hours.

WILLIAMS: Hey, Doc, we're getting a warble in your audio and as we work to fix that. Jonathan Lemire, let's talk about the confines of the two aircraft that an aide as senior as Hope Hicks flies on when the President travels. You have the chopper Marine One, you have Air Force One, we've been watching them go through the front stairs, usually the likes of you and I go in the back stairs, but in a pinch, we have used the front entrance you take an immediate right the President's bedroom is in the nose cone of the aircraft immediate left.

If your senior staff or connected to the president you usually approached by an Air Force steward, perhaps they take your bag, perhaps they take your coat. And then normally you work through a kind of narrow hallway on the right back to the conference room, back to staff seating. And it's a lovely aircraft well appointed. The seats are kind of standard business class. But the confines in meeting areas are as tight as you can imagine. You are sharing each other's airspace.

LEMIRE: And Brian, the seats don't lie flat, which is tough on a over long flight to Asia. But you're right, you describe the inside of the Air Force One completely accurately to no surprise.

And let's just walk through the chronology of how this happens. When the President leaves the White House, he tends to, when he leaves the Oval Office, he heads out to the South Lawn when he's heading out to a trip that's going to require him leaving Washington. And then that's where Marine One helicopter is waiting for him. And he tends to travel is a few close aides, usually some fairly senior staff. And sometimes that can be the chief of staff like Mark Meadows. That can be sometimes Dan Scavino, who's a senior aide and yes, it can indeed be Hope Hicks. It'll do that the helicopter always seats a few staffers along with the President.

And then that is a short 10 to 15 minute Hilo ride to Joint Base Andrews just outside Washington. And at that point, he doesn't need board Air Force One. He goes up the front steps, most of the staff and the reporters go up the back.

But it is indeed, as you say, people are in there as close together as you would be in any sort of war -- any sort of office building. And we should note here that the West Wing, this is small space. This is not a gigantic office complex by any means. These are staffers they're sort of on top of each other. These are small offices and desks, often crammed in a couple into relatively small spaces.

It's the same on Air Force One, the president indeed has his own quarters up at the nose of the plane, but he -- and he also has his own private office, but it's an office that this President in particular tends to have staffers in quite a bit.

So it stands to reason that whether it was Tuesday heading to Cleveland for the debate, or Wednesday to Minnesota for a couple of events, including the rally that Hope Hicks would have come into the president's office there in the airplane where she would have been just a few feet from him.

In addition to the time spent with him on Marine One the helicopter on perhaps backstage at the rally or any other number of holding areas. We don't -- we saw, you've seen the footage she was not in a mask most of the day. She is a staffer we've heard who does wear them from time to time. Some never do. But she didn't, at all times, certainly in the last couple of days where it seems she may have been carrying this virus and would have been contagious.

So that is why now we are we're anxiously awaiting the nation, the world is waiting to further results of what the next COVID test the president is taking. We again presume he's taken a rapid test already, because they're so -- they are available the White House and everyone who comes into contact with him, including the press has given one.

This is the senses and we're reporting this out as he would have been given the more gold standard test, more accurate test that takes a few hours to come back for result. We're all waiting on that. But it should be, of course, underscore, even if that test comes back negative, it's still a few more days and incubation period where he stood could eventually develop symptoms or come back positive, meaning he could be exposing a number of people in the days ahead if he does indeed have the virus.

WILLIAMS: Hey, Nancy, a quick question before I have to get to a break. But help me out here. I'm seeing mentions on social media about a de facto disagreement between the Presidents posted scheduled for tomorrow and beyond. And his tweets tonight that he vaguely is entering the quarantine process with the First Lady.

Both can be true given the mechanics of the White House, an aide or an intern in the Press Office is to send out the public schedule at a certain hour when it's locked down. The President with his cell phone is free to tweet out whatever he wants to. And Lord knows we've seen that come true. And so there may be a public schedule posted for tomorrow that predates what he said about quarantine.

COOK: Absolutely. And they do update the public schedule with some frequency either at night or in the morning on briefing. That's not unusual. But, you know, while we've been talking, they may or may not I haven't looked at my phone. But I do you think that we may see changes, either later tonight or in the morning. It would be hard for the president in the current game and then I get on a plane at work or a closed door indoor fundraiser, and tomorrow.

WILLIAMS: All right. As we mentioned, let's take a break in our live coverage. You see the breaking news at the bottom of your screen. President announcing he and the First Lady have begun the quarantine process. We have nothing to add to that as of now. Based on our assumption, questions that may change that we may learn more fit a break in now. Come back and continue our live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: We are back and now at 45 minutes after the hour, all we have to refer to as far as a medical statement from the White House is a tweet from the president using a rather vague phrase that he and the First Lady have entered the quarantine process.

Usually the word quarantine has taken quite literally, it takes you out of circulation, industry standard. These days has been for a period of honor about 14 days. We don't have anything more to tell you. There is a perfectly good White House physician's office that is also capable of putting out a more detailed health statement for the President.

All we know is he was tested. We think in the 9:00 p.m. Eastern hour, there is every likelihood it was the first of multiples given the chance for false positives and negatives.

So it's a lot to talk about. Let's bring in two of our other guests for this evening who have been very patient with us. Jason Johnson's with us. He's a campaign veteran. He's a contributor to the Grieux (ph). And he's a professor of politics at Morgan State University. Tim Miller also returns to the broadcast. He's a contributor to the Bulwark, the former communications director for Jeb Bush, former top adviser to the anti-Trump Pac our principals and having just hung out with the cool kids like Bill Maher in LA. He's ready to come back and join those of us who are members of the AV club in cable.

So Tim, I'm going to begin with you your reaction to where this leaves us. Politically, this has been your life's work is explaining the actions and words of politicians. Where does this leave us tonight?

TIM MILLER, THE BULWARK CONTRIBUTOR: Glad to hear you're watching HPL last weekend, Brian. Look, Jeb Bush said that this would be the chaos President and I just jotted down some quick notes here while I was waiting on what's going on right now. He's embroiled in a scandal over the fact that he cannot condemn white supremacy that consumed his day today after the debate. His daughter in law is according to The New Yorker settled a serial sexual harassment suit from her time at Fox, his top staffer has the coronavirus and you've been showing pictures of her walking around the White House grounds not wearing a mask.

This whole White House is not taken this pandemic that's cost 200,000 deaths seriously. And then that now has come inside the house. His wife was taped talking about how she didn't care about the kids being separated at the border. And she didn't care about the Christmas setup she had to do at the White House. His campaign manager from 2020 is telling friends that he was under investigation and that he's despondent.

And, Brian, this is -- you couldn't even have predicted this kind of chaos, this level of chaos for the chaos presidency and it's almost all brought on by their own incompetence by their own indifference.

WILLIAMS: Right. And yet, Jason, I'm old enough to remember this afternoon, when the lead story was the President's inability and his press Secretary's inability to using clear language denounce hate groups within our midst?

JASON JOHNSON, PROFESSOR, MORGAN STATE UNIVERSITY: Yes, Brian, I mean, it's interesting. If we talk about October surprises, right? This is going to be like a nesting doll. Russian nesting doll of surprises. This has been -- we've said this so many times over the last four years, this might be the worst 24 hours in the Trump presidency.

He's not only because I think it's important to mention, it's not just that he wouldn't condemn white nationalists. But if you ask the white nationalist themselves, including the Patriot prayer groups and the Proud Boys, he actually told him to stand by and be ready at his beck and call. So we have a president who's called for terrorists, a president who has mocked the coronavirus and its impact, a president who lied about it just two weeks ago we were talking about any president who now is in what we know to be the quarantine process.

Brian, I can tell you, I've always said that I don't think there's many undecided voters left. I think most people know what they're going to do. They're either going to vote or not vote. But I think the chaos surrounding this presidency right now, the utter irony of the president who mocked mass wearing 48 hours ago, possibly now having to go through the painful process that millions of Americans have gone through. Hopefully he survives, clearly he and his wife and everyone around, but if he has to go through the coronavirus process, this is almost a nail in the coffin of his incompetence in handling the virus. And that's the most important issue to voters. And it seems to be right now. This could be the death knell of a functional campaign by Donald Trump going forward. This is a terrible day for Republicans across the board.

WILLIAMS: Hey Tim, I'm reminded again earlier today and recorded remarks for the annual, well, the semi-regular Al Smith dinner in New York coronavirus, as made for the exception. The President said that the end of the pandemic is in sight. As they say in Washington, he might want to revise and extend his remarks.

MILLER: How man times this Brian, distressing look and one of the -- a Republican voters against Trump, we've had a couple of people from inside the White House come out and tape ads, or even putting up talking about what their experiences, Elizabeth Newman and Olivia Troy.

And what they said is that internally, this was the policy to pretend like this wasn't a big deal, because they didn't want it to hurt the President's reelection campaign. So it wasn't even -- it wasn't just that the President was spreading disinformation, he was preventing the people who are public servants whose job it was to try to protect us from doing their job.

And so this isn't, you know, we're going to open up at Easter, the thing was going to go away when it was hot, I can go through all the lists. He's going to say this all the way up till Election Day. And now, you know, they've been so irresponsible and so obsessed with this perception that everything is fine, but they're all walking around the White House with somebody that has the virus and nobody's wearing masks. Nobody's distancing. It's insane.

WILLIAMS: We're just learning that a former colleague of ours Vivian Salama is apparently reporting that the Biden campaign has asked a journalist, a full reporter covering politics, who was covering the Trump outing on Wednesday not to travel in their pool with the former Vice President. And Jason, I know this has turned us all into kind of amateur physicians. We now track the ins and outs of medicine as we all must do, as consumers as citizens in a pandemic. But imagine the job of contact tracing that I guess the CDC begins tonight.

JOHNSON: I mean, look, this contract chasing, contract tracing the Trump campaign might be a scandal and of itself. There's probably tons of people who they're meeting with, they don't want the public to know about. I mean, this could be such a damaging series of investigations. This is like discovery and a court case, because we don't have to just know that Hope Hicks has now shown symptoms, who has Hope Hicks been speaking to, where has she been speaking to people, how long was she with the president, who else has the President's family been in contact with? All of these things.

Again, fly in stark contrast to what administration has tried to pretend that this is not a problem and not something that we need to be concerned with. And here's where it gets really serious, Brian, if the President is now in the quarantine process, we don't know what that means. We don't know how that's going to be said one way or another. What it could also mean is will he stay off the campaign trail?

This is where the rubber meets the road of how honest or dishonest is the Trump administration if he is found to have the coronavirus or Melania Trump has the coronavirus like, like Boris Johnson in the UK or Bolsonaro. In Brazil, will the President stop campaigning? Will he take the concerns of the public to be more important than his concern about being reelected? That's where the real rubber is going to meet the road. We may not know that anytime soon, because if he is positive, they're not going to want to tell the public.

WILLIAMS: Gentlemen, I can't thank you enough for weighing in on this again to think we were going to talk about voter suppression in Texas, a topic by the way that does not go away is top of mind in that state and politically with the governor's decision and we will stay on where it not for tonight's Medical News. Jason Johnson, Tim Miller, you're both very nice to hang out for us and with your patients.

For viewers just joining us and we're going to crown over the top of the hour and keep our live coverage going. We're waiting for something of a medical nature from some authority around this president. We are going only by his Twitter remarks that he in the First Lady are beginning the quarantine process.

And here's the problem. This is why the diminution of institutions and truth is a problem. The physicians around the president going back to Admiral Ronnie Jackson, but continuing through present day, we have reason to believe they've been less than transparent. You may recall the briefing with Ronnie Jackson when he talked about the President's stamina. It left reporters with reason to question things like weight and vitals and test results and life expectancy and heart health.

Present day the current White House physician was deemed less than transparent in trying to explain a yet unexplained visit to Walter Reed. They have talked about what the visit was not about. We have never been told what the visit was about.

So this is the problem the White House Physician's Office, much to the frustration of sitting presidents has often been quite transparent with the President's health details. That has not been the case. I think it's fair to say over the past four years, so we're at their mercy. These are military physicians always have been, and presumably always will be. All that we know is that man has entered something called the quarantine process, more coverage after the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HALLIE JACKSON, NBC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

WILLIAMS: What in the world was anyone doing in and around the circle of Hope Hicks?

JACKSON: So let me let me start with the first part of that question, Brian. Obviously been on the phone tonight and just spoke with a source familiar with some of this who sheds a bit more light on the timeline here and I want to share that with you here. I'm going to look at my notes while we're talking, that some of the details are still fluid.

So this is obviously a significant thing. And we're working on reporting out more details, Brian.

DR. VIN GUPTA, UNIV. OF WASHINGTON HEALTH METRICS SCIENCES DEPT.: Brian, that was a great summary and really those are the vital questions. I have to say I am deeply concerned for the President's welfare, his inner circle as welfare, those that they've exposed because of the finding that Hope Hicks is symptomatic. That is enormously important here.

Question two, is everybody this notion, this nonsense that some people on that flight should not get quarantine and they shouldn't get?

People that were exposed to the president today they should -- they should they should get retested in 72 hours.

JONATHAN LEMIRE, ASSOCIATED PRESS WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: And Brian, the seats don't lie flat, which is tough on a over long flight to Asia. But you're right, you describe the inside of the Air Force One completely accurately to no surprise.

NANCY COOK, POLITICO WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Absolutely. And they do update the public schedule with some frequency either at night or in the morning on briefing. That's not unusual. But, you know, while we've been talking, they may or may not I haven't looked at my phone. But I do you think that we may see changes, either later tonight or in the morning. It would be hard for the president in the current game and then I get on a plane at work or a closed door indoor fundraiser, and tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

All we know is he was tested. We think in the 9:00 p.m. Eastern hour, there is every likelihood it was the first of multiples given the chance for false positives and negatives.

And so this isn't, you know, we're going to open up at Easter, the thing was going to go away when it was hot, I can go through all the lists. He's going to say this all the way up till election day. And now, you know, they've been so irresponsible and so obsessed with this perception that everything is fine, but they're all walking around the White House with somebody that has the virus and nobody's wearing masks. Nobody's distancing. It's insane.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END

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