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Transcript: The 11th Hour with Brian Williams, December 30, 2020

Guests: Tasha Dixon, Irwin Redlener, Jason Johnson

Summary

Senator Josh Hawley, a Missouri Republican, says he will object to the Electoral College results next week when Congress meets to officially certify President-elect Joe Biden's win over President Donald Trump, ensuring a doomed but dramatic congressional fight to overturn Biden's win. Some lawmakers accuse Hawley of endangering democracy. Biden team dismisses Hawley move to contest Electoral College count.

Transcript

CHRIS JANSING, MSNBC HOST: Good evening I'm Chris Jansing in for Brian Williams, will be back here Monday.

Day 1,441 of the Trump administration, just 21 days until Joe Biden takes the oath of office as the 46th President. And then a surprise the White House tonight confirming that the outgoing president who spent Christmas in Florida will be ringing in the New Year in Washington, Donald Trump is returning early days ahead of what he hopes will be a battle in Congress on January 6, when the House and Senate certified Biden's win.

Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley says he intends to object to the certification next Wednesday. He's the first senator to say he'll join the handful of House Republicans who have indicated they also plan to contest by victory.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell had urged GOP senators not to go along with those House members. But tonight, Holly said he felt he had no choice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): You've got 74 million Americans who feel disenfranchised, who feel like their vote doesn't matter if this is my opportunity to stand up and say something to stand up and point out that there were irregularities in this election, there needs to be an investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: It should be noted again, no evidence of widespread election fraud has been found and none of Trumps court challenges to the election have been successful. Today, several other lawmakers including one Republican House member slammed Hawley's move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You inject disinformation into the constituents and then use that disinformation as a rationalization to protest this. It's unbelievable and it's how disinformation works, right? It's a self-licking ice cream cone.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT) CONNECTICUT: Josh Hawley and anyone who supports his effort are engaged in the attempted overthrow of democracy. Senator Hawley's efforts are not going to change the result of the election. But they pose a grave threat to American democracy, maybe not this year but two years from now four years from now, absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: As meantime, Joe Biden's team is shrugging off any attempt in Congress to contest his victory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The American people spoke resoundingly in this election, and 81 million people have voted for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Congress will certify the results of the election as they do every four years regardless of whatever answer anyone has up to on January 6, President-elect Biden will be sworn in on the 20th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: As that date nears, the lame duck president is escalating his attack on a former key ally who refuses to intervene in his state's presidential election. Today, Trump had this suggestion for Georgia's governor writing, "Brian Kemp should resign from office. He is an obstructionist, who refuses to admit that we won Georgia. Big." A few hours after that Kemp spoke to reporters about Trump's attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA) GEORGIA: All of these things, they're a distraction. I mean, I've supported the president. I've said that many times there is a constitutional and legal process that is playing out, and I'm very comfortable letting that process play out. But that horse has left the barn in Georgia and it's headed to D.C. right now. The next vote is going to be they're not here. So, people need to focus on the boat that is happening here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: Georgia is just days out from the Senate run off on Tuesday. Early voting has been underway for weeks there. That election will of course determine the balance of power in the Senate. So far, more than two and a half million votes have been cast.

On Monday, the outgoing and incoming presidents will both be in Georgia. Joe Biden's scheduled to visit Atlanta to campaign for Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock. President Trump is holding a rally and Dolton that night for Republican senators, Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue.

The Trump administration continues to face fierce criticism over the COVID vaccine roll up, which has been a lot slower than President Trump and health officials had predicted. Today the White House defended its efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADMIRAL BRETT GIROIR, M.D., ASSISTANT SECRETARY, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: There clearly are vaccines out there that have not been given. We're only 16 days into this campaign. The first dose was given only 16 days ago. And we do expect a very rapid ramp up in vaccines and arms. Of course, we need to be doing a better job but all vaccine program starts somewhat slow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: Trump himself weighed in on Twitter writing the federal government has distributed the vaccines to the States. Now it is up to the states to administer get moving. Along with all this, we are now seeing more use cases of the new, more contagious COVID strain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): This new variant, this new strain that we've identified, obviously from the United Kingdom, other some other parts of the globe identified in Colorado, yesterday has been identified here in the State of California, in Southern California.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I'm not surprised that you have a case and we'd likely we'll be seeing reports from other states.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: Well, officials in Colorado say they're now aware of a second suspected case of that new strain there. As for efforts to boost the amount of COVID relief, not looking good. Senate Majority Leader McConnell says there's, "No realistic path for a standalone vote on the $2,000 relief checks that the president says he wants, and that Democrats support."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The center is not going to be bullied into rushing out more borrowed money into the hands of democrat or rich friends who don't need help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: Instead, McConnell has thrown his support behind a bill that ties those payments to two other demands from Trump, the investigation of election security and the removal of legal protections for social media platforms. This combined measure is highly unlikely to pass.

Tomorrow the Senate is expected to take up whether to override Trump's veto of the defense bill. Meantime, the number of confirmed COVID cases in the U.S. is nearing 20 million. More than 342,000 Americans have died in this still uncontrolled pandemic. And today the CDC projected over 80,000 more lives could be lost by January 23.

With that, let's bring in our leadoff guests on this Wednesday night, Peter Baker, Chief White House Correspondent for The New York Times, Kimberly Atkins, previously of both WBUR and the Boston Herald, now a member of the Boston Globe Editorial Board. And Jonathan Lemire, White House Reporter with the Associated Press.

So good to see all of you, so Jonathan, the White House has confirmed Trump is returning to D.C. early. What can you tell us about that? And what does it tell us about where his head is now?

JONATHAN LEMIRE, ASSOCIATED PRESS WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, White House hasn't said, Chris, publicly why the President is cutting short his trip he was slated to remain in Florida in Palm Beach for the New Year's Eve celebrations tomorrow night and attend $1,000 ticket gala as usual New Year's Eve bash at Mar-a-Lago. So there'll be some disappointed revelers there who thought they're buying a ticket to mingle with the president who longer will be.

But it should be noted, the President had to be convinced to go at all, he and the First Lady almost skipped this trip entirely in favor of staying at the White House. And Trump has decided to return and a lot of this the backdrop is, of course, his ongoing fight to overturn the election.

And let's be clear, as you pointed out, there's no evidence whatsoever of widespread election fraud, but he wants to be there. And we've seen that his twitter feed recently increased rhetoric, making baseless accusations about the fraud and that the election was rigged, but also encouraging January 6, that's the new date now that he and his allies are focused upon that certification of the Electoral College and Congress, and he's hoping the same day, there'll be a massive demonstration of Trump supporters in Washington, one that has unnerved some local officials who fear it could get out of hand.

What he has done here is he's ignoring reality and putting his fellow Republicans in a difficult, if not impossible proposition, especially those two republicans trying to hang on their Senate seats in Georgia. But right now, he's looking out simply for his own electoral future in the short term and trying to if he set up what could come next for him, which could include potentially a 2024 run.

JANSING: Yes, but let's go back to January 6, Peter, I mean, the President is coming back with a new ally, Senator Hawley. What's he really trying to do here? Look, surely, he knows this is going nowhere. What does he get out of it?

PETER BAKER, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, I think Senator Hawley is one of those young Republicans who was looking ahead to 2024 for themselves that President Trump doesn't run. The next generation is going to step forward to compete leadership of the party. He'd like to be in that mix. And he'd like to be in that next with the support, presumably of the President's very fervent base. I mean, at the moment, if you're a Republican President Trump is still the most resonant voice in that party. He did get 74 million votes, as we just said, and of course many of them are actually quite loyal to him. So, Senator Hawley is trying to appeal presumably to the Republicans by saying I'm the most loyal Republican senator anyway to the President.

It's an act of futility, of course, but it's a way of making a point, making a protest. There's no way that this is going to change the outcome under the rules, both houses of Congress would have to vote to disallow electors sent by these swing states, given that the House is in democratic hands. That's not going to happen. Obviously, Speaker Pelosi is not going to suddenly change your mind decide that Donald Trump somehow won the election.

So, it's simply a matter of theater. But it can be it can be a prolonged situation that can contribute to this idea that something actually bad happened in the election, even though there's no factual basis for it. I think the damage long term is that many Republicans, according to polls, believe that this was somehow a crooked election. The next president of United States, Joseph Biden is somehow not a legitimate president. And that has an obvious effect and consequence going down the road as to the new administration's ability to govern.

JANSING: Yes, Kim, that's a very important point there. How might what we watch unfold next week and Congress impact Joe Biden, does it in some, to some extent, weaken his ability to govern? Does it strengthen his mandate to govern? If it looks like a doomed enterprise, what's it going to mean for Joe Biden?

KIMBERLY ATKINS, THE BOSTON GLOBE EDITORIAL BOARD MEMBER: Well, we'll have to see, I mean, Joe Biden does have a long-standing relationship with many members of the Senate with many folks in Congress from his work there before. But for many, I would say most of his initiatives that he has on his agenda, he's going to need congressional support to get it across. So it's certainly the more divided the Congress becomes both divided in terms of its rhetoric and divided in terms of the even -- how even the numbers are, is going to make that a much more difficult task.

He's going to come in with a lot of big ideas, and we may see them get narrowed down. It also depends a lot on Mitch McConnell, if you recall, in 2009, Mitch McConnell's top objective was to make a hit by his own admission was to make Barack Obama a one term president, if Mitch McConnell has that same obstructive stance as Biden enters the White House, that will make it increasingly difficult and also just more further fuel, these partisan divisions that we see on the hill.

JANSING: Well, speaking of those divisions, Peter, and Jonathan touched on this, Trump has been tweeting to supporters see you January six. There are these reports that plans for protests in D.C. are multiplying. What are you hearing about any concerns, whether it's people on the Hill within the administration, that what Trump is doing could create something dangerous?

BAKER: Well, that's obviously a worry right now, because you've seen situations where the passions of the day have gotten taken to extremes and parts of the country and in terms of particularly some of President Trump supporters who have brandish weapons or, you know, in made sort of very menacing kind of public protests that the right would say the left is on the same thing with some of their protests. But right now, the aggrieved party is the Trump supporters and I, you know, we just saw a fascinating story out of New Hampshire Governor Sununu up there just canceled his outdoor inaugural event, because there had been armed protesters at his house in recent days, and he's worried about the violence up there. Clearly D.C. has similar concerns about something getting out of hand here.

And we'll see. I mean, the same supporters came to town a few weeks ago, they protested, they made their point known. You know, there was some sporadic, you know, instances of violence there, but nothing on the extreme side that people have been worried about. But when you get to this point, where January 6 is being told to them by the President of United States that's the moment of truth, you know, it could incite, you know, something beyond what any of the authorities here hoping to see.

JANSING: And all this is happening in the midst of concerns about the vaccine rollout that we talked about. Jon, it was supposed to be the White House's big success. And yet, now you have two vaccines, but only about a 10th of the vaccinations promised by the end of the year actually given and all Trump is doing is saying it's the state's responsibility. Does this seem reminiscent of the general approach to the virus that we witnessed over the past 10 months?

LEMIRE: By any measure, the President's response to this pandemic has been a failure. That was the defining issue of the election, an election he lost, but this was supposed to be the one shining bright spot for his administration, the development of the vaccine and to be clear, it's miraculous. The vaccine is ready at this point so soon and incredible and credit to the scientists who worked on it.

Part of -- part two of that was going to be a massive distribution campaign and right now, it's behind schedule. It does not seem like they will make the number of vaccines into Americans arms by the end of the year as they hoped. We've seen a lot of defensiveness from the administration the last couple of days about it from Secretary Azar, from the President on Twitter, from Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany. Among them, and his fierce criticism from President-elect Joe Biden, who held a news conference this week, talking about how the slow roll out here is endangering lives and worried about the situation that his team is going to inherit when he takes office on the 20th.

There are some more vaccines slated to likely come online in the coming weeks that will certainly help. But as the death toll hits, terrifying numbers each and every day, 100,000 Americans have died just since Election Day of COVID-19. Every day there's delay is a danger lives will be lost. And it seems that right now, this is another example of the federal response being one where they hand off and pass the responsibility to the states so reminiscent of March and April in terms of respirators and ventilators and things like that. And the President seems to have almost washed his hands of it. And right now, it's an approach that seems like it's not working.

JANSING: Yes. And so, I guess the key question comes, becomes, Kim, what exactly and is the Biden administration inheriting? We know that he has this team that's together. They've been out there? He's been out talking about it. The members of his task force have been out there talking about it. But is there a belief that they have a clear understanding of what they're really going to be inheriting?

ATKINS: I think to the extent that they've been fully briefed on it, that they do, they certainly have a belief that local cities and states are going to need a lot more help than they've gotten from the Trump administration. Keep in mind, the President is trying to push the blame to cities and localities after vehemently opposing giving those states and cities COVID funding, things that will help them not only set up a distribution infrastructure be in a better position to do so. But to keep the lights on, to keep local and state officials employed.

And so, to turn around and say, well, you're doing a bad job with nothing with your tax base, having been eliminated and the inability to run a deficit in your own funding is quite something. So, the first thing that the Biden administration can try to do is to work with Congress to try to pass some sort of state and local funding to help these folks get that infrastructure set up and moving.

JANSING: Peter Baker, are you hearing anything from within the administration that they have any concerns that they are lacking some of the information they need to really hit the ground running?

BAKER: Yes, I think it's a good question. They've been saying that they have been getting sporadic cooperation from different parts of the administration during this transition. Most recently, the President-elect has highlighted the Pentagon, for in his view anyway, not fully providing the information he thinks is necessary to his team. The Pentagon has denied that strenuously.

This is a very complicated operation, and it does involve the military in terms of distributing this vaccine. We're talking about 300 million people. So far, they've only managed to vaccinate 2 million at this rate. It would take you know, years literally to get this everybody's arm.

Now, they presumably will speed up as they get rolling regardless of who's in charge. But if you're the Biden administration, who has promised coming in promised, you know, effective, efficient and quick distribution to the vaccine, the expectation level is high and the need for cooperation and the outgoing administration is high. And it's probably very few issues, if any, that are more important right now on the agenda the next administration.

JANSING: Peter Baker, Kimberly Atkins, Jonathan Lemire, thank you all for staying up tonight, appreciate it.

And coming up, California heads into the New Year a COVID hotspot with hospitals they're near the breaking point. Two doctors are here to help us better understand the situation.

And later, the challenges the incoming president faces in the New Year even within his own party, THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on the final Wednesday night of 2020.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: When you have a more transmissible virus, that means the virus will take the opportunity on the circumstances what people are not practicing public health measures that it will be more easy for them to get infected. So, don't get discouraged, keep doing the public health measures that we're talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: Dr. Anthony Fauci as California is already strained health care system is under more pressure tonight, now that a case of the more contagious coronavirus variant has been confirmed there.

The head of LA County's MLK Community Hospital warns that some facilities may soon be forced to ration care. As the LA Times reports, "Patients are being placed in every usable corner including the gift shop, which instead of stuffed animals and greeting cards, has patients on gurneys in need of emergency care."

With us tonight, Dr. Irwin Redlener, the Founding Director of Columbia's National Center for Disaster Preparedness with an expertise in pandemics and we welcome to the broadcast Dr. Tasha Dixon, she is the lead family physician at LA County's MLK Outpatient Center.

It's good to have both of you. But Dr. Dixon, I heard you reporting some very disturbing numbers earlier today. Tell me if this is right. Your hospital has 131 beds and 224 patients. What's the situation tonight?

DR. TASHA DIXON, MLK JR. OUTPATIENT CENTER LEAD FAMILY PHYSICIAN: So our campus partner, Martin Luther King (ph) Community Hospital, it's a dire situation, walking by, you know, the emergency room every day. We're at the point now where there is no space for the paramedics. There are stretchers outside. There is now a tent system outside where there are beds and people waiting outside for care. This is someone's grandmother, grandfather outside waiting to try to get in to get care that they need in the hospital.

JANSING: So, what do you need right now? What do you need Dr. Dixon?

DIXON: We need resources. We are in dire, dire need here in Los Angeles County for resources, especially staffing. You know, that is where we are. The other thing that we really need is for the Los Angeles County stay at home. Not only Los Angeles County everywhere, you know, in this in the U.S. we need everyone to stay at home but really where we are right now, we can't take very much more time.

JANSING: Yes, Cedars-Sinai Health System in LA issued a crisis alert to its patients urging them not to travel for New Years. Do you get to the point Dr. Dixon, where you just don't know what to say anymore as people continue to go out, as people continue to travel over the holidays?

DIXON: You know, I still have something to say please stay at home. We saw what happened with Thanksgiving, we saw what happened with Christmas, we saw the balls, we saw the pictures of everyone at the airport, we know that what the common the next four weeks is devastating right now in Los Angeles County, in every 10 minutes, someone's dying. That's someone that is not going to make it to 2021 with us. We need to do better. And so, I don't -- I know what to say, please stay at home, wash your hands. This new strain is something that we're not surprised about. But it's something that we can protect ourselves from.

JANSING: Dr. Redlener, I feel like we're back where we were, I don't know, April or May when you and I were talking about what was going on in New York, except we were supposed to have had experience. As Dr. Dixon says, that's somebody whose grandmother, grandfather in a tent outside a hospital in Los Angeles, they don't have the people they need to take care of them. They don't have the beds they need indoors to take care of them. What needs to be done right now from an organizational standpoint, from the federal government from the state government, what do we do Dr. Redlener?

DR. IRWIN REDLENER, EXPERT ON PANDEMIC INFLUENZA: So, Chris, there's actually unfortunately, a number of things that we have to do simultaneously. This is not a menu of options. We need to make sure that we've had the temporary facility set up that we know all about we did this, as you said, in the spring in New York, we need the Army Corps of Engineers to build outdoor facilities and tents, and so on and, and other special spaces which can be adapted. We need to make sure that we have enough PPE in stock. And I'm afraid that's not actually the case right now. And we need to think about backup personnel resources. And not just bringing people out of retirement is something I've always been concerned about, because the people that come out of retirement are usually older, obviously. And they're going to be at risk themselves. But there are federal assets, people that work in the VA hospital systems and might be released, and also the U.S. public health service. So, we have resources, but somebody has to be managing this entire process.

And at the same time, Chris, of course, we have to be thinking about the distribution and administration of the vaccines, which are really going to get us out of there out of this horrible crisis, ultimately.

But as Dr. Dixon said --

JANSING: Well, I want to ask you about that if I can, because -- I want to ask you about that, because, you know, I was watching what was happening in Lee County, Florida, seniors waiting overnight in hours on long lines, you know, they're basically told first come, first serve, and so they're out there in the middle of a pandemic, waiting. Here's what Colorado's governor had to say tonight on MSNBC about how his state is handling vaccinations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): You see health and county health departments that are giving inoculations to seniors, they're scheduling it, they're scheduling it online, you know, 15 minutes, 15 minutes that people sign up, they show up, they get a reminder, it's unfathomable that people would be forced to especially our vulnerable seniors would be forced to spend the night outdoor in line, we would not allow any of our distribution partners to engage in that kind of activity.

JANSING: Dr. Redlener, we had nine months to plan for this. We've been waiting for a vaccine it's here now assesses what you're seeing so far.

REDLENER: Well, it's a nightmare. Actually, Chris, you know, and the fact that we have so long for repair. And not only that we had a vastly complicated, serious situation last spring. It was right in front of us. We knew what went wrong, and we know what we had to do to take care of it. I think this is just like maybe the final step in a string of incredibly incompetent capacity to deal with whether it's testing or distribute the vaccines or planning for these emergency situations for this raging pandemic.

This has just been a mess since the very beginning. It's something that history is not going to judge very well. I do want to emphasize too, that the bind team comes in at just a few weeks from now. And they're going to have a huge mess to clean up in terms of the various processes and this is not going to be a magic bullet either these guys coming in because they have a lot of work to do to play catch up and try to get ahead of this virus right now. But it's a heck of a legacy from the Trump administration to the next team coming into town.

JANSING: Irwin Redlener, always great to see you, Dr. Dixon, good luck to you and everybody who's on the front lines there in Los Angeles, Dr. Tasha Dixon, thank you so much.

And coming up a New Year and soon a new administration, the resolutions Democrats may want to work on in 2021 when THE 11TH HOUR continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON OSSOFF (D), GEORGIA SENATE CANDIDATE: I look forward to seeing the vice president elect and the president elect here. And this is a battle between the people of Georgia and two crook U.S. senators who have used their offices to enrich themselves while they obstruct relief for ordinary people for the last year. That's the battle here in Georgia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are heading to Georgia for a last-minute pushing that all important Senate run off. The two seats up for grabs will of course determine the balance of power in the Senate. And Democrats have some reason to be hopeful. Voter turnout has already smashed records.

With us to talk all about it Jason Johnson, campaign veteran and journalistic contributor to The Grio and professor of politics at Morgan State University. And Beth Fouhy, veteran journalist and senior politics editor for MSNBC and NBC News. Good to see you both.

So, Jason, give me your assessment here because an awful lot of Democrats are really excited. It's probably an understatement to talk about these numbers is just like setting a record. I mean, it's off the charts, the number of people who are voting this but in this, but does that definitively mean it's more beneficial for Democrats?

JASON JOHNSON, PROFESSOR, MORGAN STATE UNIVERSITY: You know, we can't ever know for sure, right until we actually get to Election Day. We have to see what happens. You know, on same day voting, what's the weather like? Who turns out where do people turn out, but I got to tell you, over 80,000 people who didn't bother to vote six weeks ago? I mean, think about it. The November election. That's November.

So, like six weeks, eight weeks ago, you had people who didn't care enough about Joe Biden or Donald Trump to turn out to vote, but they are turning out now. And my guess is that is probably because of the dynamic candidates that the Democrats have put forward. Think about it. That's enthusiasm. That's probably for Warnock and probably for Ossoff, the kinds of people who were very excited about Loeffler and Perdue, they already came out and voted during the November election.

So, is the guarantee for Democrats? There's never a guarantee, certainly not in Georgia with the history of voter suppression. That is a really good sign. Is it an unprecedented sign to have that kind of turnout and that many new voters? It definitely is.

JANSING: Yes, it's pretty insane. And Beth, do you get the sense that Joe Biden is waiting to see the results of the Georgia Senate race before he makes the rest of his cabinet decisions?

BETH FOUHY, MSNBC SENIOR POLITICS EDITOR: You know, Joe Biden has been saying all along that he is going to be able to work with the Republican Congress with the Democratic controlled Senate, if he's so lucky. But that that is not a requirement, he seems to be sort of operating on his own timeframe on all of these decisions.

And the outcome in Georgia, obviously, will be a huge boon to him. As Jason suggests, the Democrats are on their way to winning those seats, we just don't know.

In terms of filling up the cabinet, though, as you mentioned, Biden still has to pick an attorney general, obviously, that's a very big job, very high-profile position in any administration. He's got to pick a labor secretary, which particularly in a democratic administration is going to be something a lot of people are watching. That may be a thumb for the progressives who have given Biden a lot of support, but some are a little worried that his cabinet selection so far has been kind of mainstream, kind of establishment kind of Obama hangovers. Not necessarily that that juice of progressive energy that that some Democrats would like to see.

So those are the two main cabinet official -- appointments that need to be made still. And Biden is, you know, he's got to go down to their fight in Georgia, but he's not going to make his whole, you know, next couple of weeks, depending on what those outcomes are.

JANSING: Yes, but let's talk about DOJ if we can, Jason Johnson, a lot of people paying a lot of attention to that. I want to play for you what Brittany Cooper had to say about Biden's picked to lead DOJ.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRITTNEY COOPER, CO-EDITOR, THE CRUNK FEMINIST COLLECTION: I think that Joe Biden needs to bring a firebrand into the DOJ. I think that person should absolutely be a person of color.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: The names we keep hearing Merrick Garland, Doug Jones, Sally Yates, obviously not people of color. What is your take on what Joe Biden should do? And what will his eventual choice say about the Justice Department that he wants?

JOHNSON: Well, look, I -- there are a slew of people that would probably be very, very effective, people whose names we don't know. And I'm not saying that the hedge. I'm saying that because with the literally 1000s of attorneys that we have around the country right now, Joe Biden has an opportunity to pick a woman, to pick a black person, to pick an Asian American, to pick an person, he can. If he wants to do that, he could do it.

So, the fact that we're hearing Merrick Garland and Doug Jones means that's not what Joe Biden wants to do. He does not necessarily care about putting the top cop in the hands of an African American or necessarily a person of color.

But I think the issue is this. This is what I want to see out if whoever he ends up picking is AG, it's got to be someone who is aggressive, not just about cleaning up the DOJ, not just about pushing out all the trumpets and getting rid of the people who were brought in who are unqualified, who are anti-democratic in their behavior. It's got to be someone who will be aggressive about voting rights and protecting voting rights across the country, which we saw with the previous Attorney General with Barack Obama, but also someone who will be dedicated to tamping down and breaking up the rising tide of white nationalist terrorist organizations masquerading as groups around this country like the Proud Boys.

We need to have a DOJ. We need to have an attorney general that goes after white nationalists, the way the FBI went after the Ku Klux Klan in the 1950s. If he doesn't pick someone who recognizes that we have a domestic terror threat, that should be our number one concern, then he will have failed. That's my biggest concern with whoever I pick for that position.

JANSING: I mean, we were talking about the fact that you have these people who never voted in the presidential election now coming out Georgia, there were tons of people who took to the streets. Certainly, were I was in the protests in New York, who had never thought about doing a protest before in their lives.

And, you know, next thing you know, they're out there in these huge numbers. We just again, we're reminded about the Breonna Taylor case over the last 24-48 hours. When you see how 2020, Jason, was marked by social unrest and protests, how do you think his activism has shaped Democrats expectations overall?

JOHNSON: Well, I think you've seen it in some of the ideological fights that we've had, which is, which I think it's good for the Democratic Party. You've had some people who say, for example, Representative Clyburn, and said, hey, look, you know, Black Lives Matter and defend the police. It heard us. We need to have conversations about how we deal with this policy wise.

I will tell you, people on the ground in Georgia say that ideas like defunding the police and Black Lives Matter are the only reasons that certain young black people and white people are actually turning out to vote.

So, I think the protest this summer did a good thing as far as galvanizing and forcing the Democratic Party to pay attention to these issues, forcing occasional Republicans to pay attention to these issues of criminal justice. I think that the 1033 provision, which is going to be part of the Defense Act that they're voting on tomorrow, it's actually being delayed right now. That's the provision of the government that says that local police departments can get surplus military gear.

You've got Rand Paul and Brian Schatz out of Hawaii, who are both saying that needs to stop after the protest this summer. We don't want to see cops using tear gas on American citizens. We don't want to see cops using attack drones.

So I think these protests are actually going to lead to some, some halfway decent changes. And if that also manifests and changes in this administration's attitude towards the violence that we saw in response to peaceful protests, that will be a good thing as well.

JANSING: Jason Johnson, Beth Fouhy, good to stay up on this Wednesday night, I had to stop and think for a minute. It's Wednesday night, thanks to both of you. And coming up, what history tells us about what is supposed to happen one week from today. We'll ask presidential historian Michael Beschloss when THE 11TH HOUR continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL GORE, FMR. U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: George W. Bush of the state of Texas has received for President of the United States, 271 votes. Al Gore of the state of Tennessee has received 266 votes. May God bless our new president and our new vice president, and may God bless the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANSING: In 2001, Vice President Al Gore presided over the certification of his own laws to George W. Bush. It appears unlikely that the process will go smoothly on January 6. Objections from GOP House and Senate members will mean a floor debate and a vote, forcing Republicans to publicly recognize Biden's win.

Joining us now the newly crowned winner of the Room Rater 2020 Room of the Year award. And I mean, why not take a look. Michael Beschloss, NBC News presidential historian, his latest work is "Presidents of War" or should I say his latest work is behind him. Congratulations.

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS, NBC NEWS PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Thanks a lot Chris. Welcome to be together.

JANSING: We move on to other things now.

BESCHLOSS: Wonderful.

JANSING: I have been going back in my brain and wondering has any other transfer of presidential power in history, compared to this one, Michael?

BESCHLOSS: No, not quite like this. We've had contested elections, 1800, 1876. You just showed 2000. You know, the Supreme Court ruled against Al Gore. None of us thought for a moment that Al Gore was going to get crowds out into the streets and threaten not to announce the first week of January 2001 that George W. Bush had won the election. That's what patriots do.

Instead, Donald Trump is just throwing Jello at the wall. Maybe you can get some senators to oppose the ruling in this election that he's been defeated by Joe Biden as he has. Maybe he can generate some crowds in the streets. Maybe during his last three weeks in office, which begin tomorrow, he can abuse the Justice Department again, or try to start an unnecessary war, or abuse the Department of online security or something else. This is not a president who behaves in the interest of the American people.

JANSING: No, look what he's done. Or they'll just the last month. I mean, the GSA dragging its feet --

BESCHLOSS: It's disgusting.

JANSING: -- not allowing the Biden team to get what it needed for the transition, right, the Pentagon this month halting transition briefings. There were new concerns raised today by the head of the Biden transition team who says that OMB is not cooperating. They say it's going to hurt their ability to maximize the pandemic relief. There are immediate as well as big picture implications aren't there?

BESCHLOSS: There are and we are going to suffer from the fact that Donald Trump has systematically tried to sabotage the transition from his presidency, God help us, to the next Presidency of Joe Biden. And we don't know tonight, which ways the American people will suffer from this. But if we can talk about this in two years, I can tell you, this person was not properly appointed, this policy was not taken care of, this department was rushed because we were not able to have Joe Biden get the kind of information he needs.

So the result is that Trump, the outgoing president is sabotaging the American people as he's going out. And if I ever hear him for the rest of his life, claim that he loves what is good for Americans, I'm going to have a very hard time listening.

JANSING: If you consider whether or not he will ever concede, and I don't think many people think that he will he's whether or not he will go and actually make an appearance at the inauguration. Does it matter, Michael? Or is it damaging to democracy? Does it simply send the wrong message to the rest of the world? How do you view that?

BESCHLOSS: It's ugly, it's a stunt. But people will understand this is a freak show. It has been for four years. Why not in the freak show the way same way it began, so I wouldn't be surprised. And baby as I've said before, he'll have a counter inaugural at Mar-a-Lago with a circus tent and maybe have himself sworn in by Rudy Giuliani for a fake second term and claim for the rest of his life that he was robbed of his election in the year 2020. Let him do it. The American people have better judgment.

JANSING: Well, it is always great to have your perspective particularly on this 30th of December and do you feel the pressure now about the background? Are you going to have to move get another room so that you can challenge to be the champion again in 2021? That's a conversation.

BESCHLOSS: This is one time. People are great. They get a lot of PPE things for people, Native American minorities in this country. It's wonderful. But, you know, Chris, I've been sitting here for 20 years writing books that never occurred to me that this room would ever be seen by anyone on TV. So I'm glad it passes most are with someone.

JANSING: Well, it's more than pass muster and the most important thing is what we hear coming from there. Michael Beschloss Happy New Year to you and yours. Thank you so much. And again, congratulations. I'm not worthy.

BESCHLOSS: Thank you a lot.

JANSING: And coming up. We're going to take a look at what could be a vaccine game changer in the U.K. when THE 11TH HOUR continues.

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JANSING: People in the U.K. are about to have access to a new version of a COVID-19 vaccine, just as hospitalizations in that country soar. Developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford the vaccine is inexpensive and easy to store. But it could be weeks, maybe months before this version is available here in the United States. NBC News chief global correspondent Richard Engel has the story from London.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

RICHARD ENGEL, NBC NEWS CHIEF GLOBAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the U.K. today saw near record death tolls and ordered some schools to stay closed after the holiday because of a new highly contagious viral strain here a possible turning point. The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine was approved today. Injections starting Monday.

The Prime Minister pleased but cautious.

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The hope of the vaccine and testing alone are not going to be enough in the next few weeks and possibly longer because the virus has been spreading very fast.

ENGEL: The U.K. has so far only vaccinated about 600,000 people in the past month struggling with the ultra-cold requirements of the Pfizer vaccine. The Oxford vaccine only needs refrigerator temperatures so it can be more easily moved to retirement homes and doctors' offices.

British officials are changing the vaccination strategy to, all efforts now focused on administering the first dose which they say provides 70 percent protection. The second shots, further boosting efficacy and durability will come in three months.

I spoke today to the director of the Oxford Group.

(on camera): Does this vaccine also work against the new variants, the U.K. variant and others that are popping up?

ANDREW POLLAND, OXFORD VACCINE GROUP DIRECTOR: In the evidence from the experts in the structure of this new virus really points to not being a problem for vaccines.

ENGEL: But some American Medical officials have expressed concerns about irregularities in the way the Oxford vaccine was dosed during testing. So, U.S. regulators may not approve it for months.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

JANSING: Our thanks to NBC chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel. And coming up, a few final thoughts as we prepare to bid this decidedly difficult year goodbye.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JANSING: The last thing before we go tonight remembering those we've lost. As of tonight, more than 342,000 Americans have lost their lives to the coronavirus.

St. Patrick's Cathedral along with churches across New York City, Boston and other cities ring their bells this afternoon to honor the victims of COVID-19. In a statement, the Archdiocese of New York said the ringing of the bells is as much a statement of faith as it is a show of solidarity with our neighbors and fellow members. Americans who have faced unimaginable losses as a result of the pandemic.

That is our final broadcast for this Wednesday of 2020. Last Wednesday of 2020. Brian will be back on Monday. And on behalf of all my colleagues at the networks of NBC News, good night, and Happy New Year.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END

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