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Transcript: The 11th Hour with Brian Williams, 9/28/21

Guests: Eugene Daniels, A.B. Stoddard, Barry McCaffrey, Irwin Redlener, Steven Van Zandt

Summary

Military says they advised Biden not to withdraw all U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Pelosi trying to unify Dems for infrastructure vote. Pfizer submits vaccine data to FDA for kids aged 5-11. News rules for Americans traveling overseas.

Transcript

BRIAN WILLIAMS, MSNBC HOST: Well, good evening once again. Day 252 of the Biden administration. Today for the first time since U.S. forces pulled out of Afghanistan, the nation`s top military leaders appeared under oath to testify about that chaotic and ultimately deadly exit just last month. Early on in the nearly six hours of testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Mark Milley and CENTCOM Commander General Frank McKenzie acknowledged that they previously urged Biden not to pull-out all-American troops and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin says the White House was aware of their concerns. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE, CENTCOM COMMANDER: I recommended that we maintain 2500 troops in Afghanistan. And I also recommended earlier in the fall of 2020, that we maintain 4500 at that time. I also have a view that the withdrawal of those forces would lead inevitably to the collapse of the Afghan military forces and eventually the Afghan government. SEN. JIM INHOFE, (R) OKLAHOMA ARMED SERVICE COMMITTEE: General Milley, I assume you agree with that, in terms of the recommendation of 2500? GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I do agree with that. My assessment was back in the fall of `20. And it remained consistent throughout that we should keep a steady state of 2500. And it couldn`t bounce up to 3500, maybe something like that, in order to move toward a negotiated gated solution. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I`m confident that the President heard all the recommendations and listened to him very thoughtfully. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their input was received by the president and considered by the President, for sure. (END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: So, the problem today was that testimony by those three gentlemen appears to contradict what the President told George Stephanopoulos of ABC News back on August 19. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS ABC NEWS HOST: So, no one told your military adviser to not tell you no, we should just keep 2500 troops. It`s been a stable situation for the last several years. We can do that, we can continue to do that. JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: No, no one said that to me that I can recall. (END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: And as anticipated this afternoon, the White House responded to mounting questions about what the President indeed was told. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There was a range of viewpoints as was evidenced by their testimony today that were presented to the president, that were presented to his national security team to welcomed advice. Ultimately, it`s up to the commander in chief to make a decision, he made a decision it was time to end a 20-year war. (END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: During today`s Senate hearing, the commanders also offered their assessment of the rapid resurgence of the Taliban. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all watched with alarm, the images of Afghans rushing the runway in our aircraft. We all remember the scenes of confusion outside the airport. But within 48 hours, our troops restored order they in our commanders exceeded all expectations. They evacuated more than 124,000. MILLEY: That was a logistical success, but a strategic failure. We absolutely missed the rapid 11-day collapse of the Afghan military and the collapse of their government. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We helped build a state, Mr. Chairman, but we could not forge a nation. (END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: General Milley added that had U.S. forces not left by the August 31 deadline war with the Taliban would have been inevitable. Milley also took time during his opening remarks to address reports about his actions during the final months of the Trump presidency, which were of course detailed in this new book parallel by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, the general recounted the frantic phone call with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi two days after the January six capital riot. He defended his calls to a Chinese military leader, his counterpart as being prompted by intelligence indicating Beijing`s concern about a possible U.S. strike. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MILLEY: I know, I am certain that President Trump did not intend to attack the Chinese. And it was my direct responsibility by the Secretary to convey that intent to the Chinese. My task at that time was to deescalate. My message again was consistent, stay calm, steady and deescalate. We are not going to attack you. Shortly after my call ended with General Lee, I personally informed both Secretary of State Pompeo and White House Chief of Staff Meadows. On January 8, Speaker of the House Pelosi called me to inquire about the president`s ability to launch nuclear weapons. I explained to her that the President is the sole nuclear launch authority, and he doesn`t launch them alone, and that I am not qualified to determine the mental health of the President of the United States. At no time was I attempting to change or influence the process, usurp authority or insert myself in a chain of command. (END VIDEO CLIP) [23:05:00] WILLIAMS: On this same topic of President Trump`s mental health, Trump`s own former press secretary Stephanie Grisham describes Trump`s, "terrifying" temper, among other things in her new memoir. New York Times reports Grisham writes that, "Trump`s handlers designated an unnamed White House official known as the "Music Man" to play him his favorite show tunes including "Memory" from "Cats," to pull him from the brink of rage. Well, tonight the current president who tends to be more of a dog guy is trying to keep legislation based on his domestic agenda from falling apart. Biden has canceled a trip to Chicago tomorrow so he can stay in Washington and continue negotiations with lawmakers in his own party. Earlier today, he sat down with senators say I have with us Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, who both say the three and a half trillion-dollar plan to expand social programs is too expensive for them. Meanwhile, Speaker Pelosi says she plans to hold a vote Thursday on the trillion-dollar infrastructure bill, even though the liberal members of her caucus are threatening to vote against it. Democrats are also racing to come up with bills to fund the government, so it doesn`t shut down Thursday at midnight, while also trying to keep the U.S. from going into default. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen today told lawmakers that government will essentially run out of money on October 18 if the federal debt limit isn`t raised. With all of that, let`s bring in our starting line on this Tuesday night, Eugene Daniels, White House Correspondent for Politico and co-author of each day`s edition of the politico playbook, A.B. Stoddard, Veteran Washington Journalist, Associate Editor and Columnist for Real Clear Politics, and retired four star U.S. Army General Barry McCaffrey, decorated combat veteran of Vietnam, former Battlefield Commander in the Gulf, and a former Cabinet Member, former Member of the National Security Council, as well. Good evening, and welcome to you all. Eugene, I`d like to begin with you and your beat. What is the latest you are hearing from the White House tonight with these two bills, AKA the President`s agenda up in the air? EUGENE DANIELS, POLITICO WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, what we know is that they`re getting a little concerned, right? This is quite remarkable where we are in the process meditating is messy. We all know that. The Democratic Party has to make sure everyone`s happy for Bernie Sanders to Joe Manchin in order to pass legislation. But from once the focus has been about how impressive it is that Democrats have been so united that they were on this two-track process that everyone had agreed, and then the wheels started to fall off. And I think that the White House, a lot of the people in the White House, were surprised by how quickly that happened. We had Joe Manchin saying he wanted to have a strategic pause. You had now Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, essentially decoupling the two bills and taking the two tracks almost off the table. So much of that has changed. And so now, as you see the president canceling that trip, they are working on getting a lot more involved. They`ve talked about over and over about the calls that the President has made the call them, engagements. But what we`ve heard on playbook from folks on the Hill, is that they want the president to be more involved. They want him to put his thumb on the scale more and be very clear, and most importantly, about when he wants these votes, how high you want these bills to be. And I think that is something that people on the Hill have been asking for. And so, something that Democrats have started to shift on, I think that they`re hoping is going to help is less focused on the number, right? You have progressives who`ve been negotiating, they`re concentrating much more on the policy, what`s going to be in it instead of that top line number, because that is the thing that people think about when they think about this reconciliation bill, right, $3.5 trillion, which sounds like a lot of money, because it is. And so now they`re working on trying to figure out how they can continue to sell what`s in the actual bill, and not so much that top line number and I think they`re hoping that that is going to work because what we`ve seen in polling is that the actual policies in the reconciliation bill are actually really popular. WILLIAMS: A.B. Stoddard, comedy fans of another era will remember perhaps Andy Kaufman in the wrestling match. Why am I mentioning that because it was performance art. So well done, it left people both bewildered and tipping their hats. Why do I mention all of it? Because of this bit today with a straight face from Mitch McConnell. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) KENTUCKY MINORITY LEADER: So, look, it`s time for our Democratic colleagues to stop dragging their heels and get moving. (END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: A.B. so the Democrats are dragging their heels. What`s going on here? A.B. STODDARD, REAL CLEAR POLITICS ASSOCIATE EDITOR & COLUMNIST: Well, Brian, as Eugene laid out, there are all these divisions where progressives are trying to blame senators Manchin and Sinema for blowing this up in the late hour. Not being specific, imperiling the nation`s credit and economy and everything else, whereas all along two things were clear to Democrats that they believe Joe Manchin and they believed Mitch McConnell. And Joe Manchin made it clear a long time ago that he was going to have a problem with this, he would vote to proceed. But he was never going to prove something this big. [23:10:23] And Mitch McConnell made it clear he`s going to make his own rules. He doesn`t care if this is about paying for debt, securing debt that was racked up during the Trump years that Mitch McConnell supported or not. He essentially is the minority leader and is saying if you hold the cards and you`re in power, it`s on you to do this. So, Democrats have known all along that they`re going to do a debt ceiling increase on their own. What they`re trying to do is make a point. So, there`s a lot of performance as you highlighted, where they`re going to try to make it look bad that Republicans are imperiling the nation`s economy and bring us to the brink of default, even though they`ve known all along and Mitch McConnell was deadly serious, he plays by his own, as I said, set of rules. And he really doesn`t care about being hypocritical from one cycle or one administration to the next. So, they, they really are wanting to sort of, you know, put on this show where they say republicans are going to take us over a cliff. And it`s so terrible and have a lot of people playing clips of Janet Yellen on television over and over again about the perils of this risk, but they know how this ends, and so they`re doing their own performance. They also know how the infrastructure fight ends, which is that they`ve never had the math to do what Bernie Sanders wants to do. And he and Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema will prevail. And they will not. They absolutely will not waste a bill that 19 Republicans have supported, they will not tank it, that will get passed, because they have to if it`s existential, and then they`ll figure out the social welfare programs with progressives, and everyone will have hurt feelings, but they are not going to take us into default, and they are not going to tank Joe Biden`s infrastructure bill and the rest of these programs. WILLIAMS: Well, bless you for that explanation. We may hold you to it. General Mercifully, we get to come to your bailiwick, and that`s the U.S. military. What did you make of the disconnect on display during the testimony today from the advice that these three military men gave the president, the advice that the President either says he did not receive did not hear or did not take in? And are we concentrating on the wrong subject? What a 2500 troop contingent have just remained there for five or 10 years, was that sustainable? GEN. BARRY MCCAFFREY, U.S. ARMY (ret.): Well, you know, my own view is, had we stayed beyond the 31st of August. The Taliban would have reengaged on the war, we would have had to reinforce not 2500, but probably 15 20,000. NATO troops total, we would have kept the Afghan government and armed forces from collapsing. But I do believe it was a legitimate political decision by President Biden and Trump, who withdraw all forces and to do it in a very short term. In addition, Mr. Trump teed up the Doha agreement, which essentially completely threw the Afghan government under the bus and would clearly result in their eventual collapse. So, I don`t think the fact that Mr. Biden may have slightly miss focus significant. I think Biden probably in the long run made the right decision. But now we have to live with a horrific aftermath of a country going back into chaos and brutality. WILLIAMS: That is for sure. Eugene, back, we plunge into White House politics. Is it fair to say the White House has been caught off guard by the level and degree of infighting blue on blue among Democrats? DANIELS: I think so, right? I think that the thing that they expected, was one, I think Joe Manchin has continued, as A.B. laid out, continued to be kind of a thorn in everyone`s side, right. And I think he actually enjoys that being that foil to the administration to be left oil to the amount of money that Congress wants to spend, not that it is not something he truly believes, but he does enjoy that. But it`s also important to remember, and you know, we`ve talked about it on this show on a lot on this air, is that Joe Manchin is always a proxy for a lot of other moderate Democrats, right? And I think this White House often forgets that, just because it`s just Joe Manchin, that they know that that is going to be upset or doesn`t want to address it. Why want to spend as much money. It is also Sinema, that there are also others who are quiet and allow the two of those two moderate senators to take a lot of the key. [23:15:90] And so, I think they were caught off guard and something that they have leaned on quite a bit as President Biden`s ability to twist arms to cajole people because of all of his decades of work on the Hill. And at this point, it`s not clear how much that has worked. And like I said before, there are people on the Hill who are saying, I think I should have gotten the call, considering how involved I am in this process. And I haven`t received one, not just that, you know, a member of the staff at the White House has called a member of the staff at their office, but they`re talking about high level conversations. And those are the questions that are still raised about President Biden`s involvement and it`s obvious he`s going to be doing a lot more of that here tomorrow. WILLIAMS: A.B., the optics aren`t great. The President whose job it is to sell everything to the American people is busy putting out fires in his own party? STODDARD: Yeah, but as I pointed out before, this was -- this math was there from day one, they do not control -- they don`t have a majority in the Senate. They control the chamber, and they preside over it and a 50/50 Senate, where they break ties on non-filibusterable votes with the tie breaking vote of the vice president. So, they barely control the Senate. And they have a four-seat margin in the House. They`ve known this all along. Manchin made clear through and through. First it was a pause, then it was about inflation. He continues to be unspecific about what his needs are. And this is not new to the White House. I really believe that Nancy Pelosi all along knew it was going to come down to cutting loose a bipartisan bill that`s ready to be signed into law that`s popular with 70% of Americans. But she could not rub the progressives` noses in it and start talking about putting it first and getting it over the finish line without soothing them. So, she stopped the two-track promise as long as she could. And then she broke it because that`s the political reality of the math. And they don`t have any way around that. WILLIAMS: General, you get the last word. I know you`re an admirer of General Milley`s, the combat Infantry Badge on his chest shows the wider world that he doesn`t scare easily. Do you think in your view, he did a good job defending his actions post 1/6, those so-called frantic phone calls and explaining his motives? MCCAFFREY: Yeah, you know, look, Brian, I`ve testified to the House and Senate dozens of times over the year, and they`re frequently hostile character assassination, posturing hearings. This one was relatively civil. Given the acrimony involved in the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I`ve Mark Milley made a straightforward, completely honest presentation that explain the situation that happened, didn`t delve into the craziness of the Trump`s of final days. And it was received probably with -- we have nothing else to say. We`re fortunate we have this patriotic, talented combat veteran in that position during the last month of the Trump administration. WILLIAMS: A proper final word to end this segment with our thanks to our starting line, Eugene Daniels, A.B. Stoddard, General Barry McCaffrey greatly appreciate it. Coming up for us, we`ve heard that getting the vaccine to young kids could be a thing that finally gets this pandemic under control. Is that finally about to happen? We`ll talk timeline here tonight. And later, if I told you Silvio Dante is our guest this evening and you know who that is. That makes you our kind of viewer. Tonight, we`re joined by the music legend activist, television legend, and now author, the one the only Steven Van Zandt is here to talk about his new memoir out today. The 11th Hour just getting underway on this Tuesday evening. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:22:19] WILLIAMS: Encouraging news on the vaccine front today for younger children specifically Pfizer has submitted its data to the FDA on their vaccine for kids aged five to 11, a dose they say as safe and effective. FDA is expected to take at least several weeks to analyze it. Back with us tonight to talk about it, Dr. Irwin Redlener, founding Director of Columbia`s National Center for Disaster Preparedness. He`s also Professor of Pediatrics at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. So, Doctor, what else should we know about the data on this Pfizer shot for five- to 11-year-olds? When can we expect it to start going into small arms? DR. IRWIN REDLENER, EXPERT ON PANDEMIC INFLUENZA: So, hi, Brian. Yeah, so the data has been submitted by Pfizer. And that data shows according to Pfizer that the vaccine is safe and effective for children in the five-to- 11-year age range. And furthermore, it shows that they probably do not need a high as high dose as forgiving to adults, so probably have something on the order of one half the dose, which will give them very excellent immunity. So, it seems that the initial data shows, Brian. And I think we`ll get to see that happen within the next couple of weeks. WILLIAMS: Let`s talk about the new figures out today as published by the New York Times which I am not smart enough to process. New cases are down 33%, so a full third. Deaths are up 12%, what does that mean for us going forward and going into winter? REDLENER: Well, I guess all of us are concerned, Brian, that the possibility of overwhelming our hospitals once again, even though cases are dropping. If we`re seeing big elevations, a number of people being admitted to the hospital and not surviving, that is a real concern. And in fact, we have some ominous possibilities of reaching new landmarks with COVID fatalities in the U.S. that are coming right up including sequel reach seven or 1000 deaths in the U.S. by the end of the weekend, Brian. WILLIAMS: All the landmarks have been tragic along the way, especially the ones that we can predict and anticipate. What we`re reading about this new pill as an oral treatment for the virus at some point in the future. Is it OK to get our hopes up for such a medicine and what can you tell us about this? REDLENER: Yeah, I think so. I`m feeling, actually, uncharacteristically optimistic about this particular piece of news because we know that we have antiviral agents that work very, very well including something called Tamiflu that many of us have taken for this seasonal influenza. So, we have several big pharma manufacturers, including Pfizer and Merck that are working on literally a pill and it will work like this, Brian. [23:25:12] So you go to the doctor, you`re not feeling well, you got tested for COVID and the doctor will simply write you a prescription. And that prescription you`ll start taking right away and if luck holes, we will see a pill that actually stops the COVID virus dead in its tracks. And I think that is potentially the one piece of really good actually game changing news, Brian, that we`re looking at in the near term, say next couple of months. WILLIAMS: We like game changers around here. We`ll claim to that and hold you to it. Dr. Irwin Redlener has been our guest taking our questions on this front again tonight, always a pleasure, Doctor, thank you so much for being with us. Coming up for us, the man who does it all, Steven Van Zandt is here to talk about his new memoir out today. His life in the E Street Band, his indelible mark on television, and his great American Life. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) WILLIAMS: Our next guest is a singer, songwriter, actor, activist, arranger, thinker creator, also happens to be effective today. A soon to be bestselling author. In his new memoir called Unrequited Infatuations, Steven Van Zandt reveals the most intimate details of an extraordinary American life. What a journey from performing alongside Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band playing the part of Silvio Dante, conciliary to mob boss Tony Soprano in The Sopranos. [23:30:17] About music he writes this, "The Beatles showed us a new world; the Rolling Stones invited us in. It was the spark that would ignite a new way of thinking for me. A world without rules. Without limitations. The Beatles/Stones exacta would change everything. My religion had gone from Catholic to Baptist to Rock and Roll Pagan Society has never recovered. And neither have I." We are so pleased to welcome my friend, Steven Van Zandt, now author of this new memoir, which again is called Unrequited Infatuations. It is now available. What a treat and a pleasure to have you on. I`ve now read it twice covered a cover and what emerges is a life spent reaching for brass rings that you don`t get. And we understand that that`s a kind of a thesis, a theme in the telling and in the writing and yet the reader and I think the author, if I`m right, by the end of the story, you realize you came down with a lot of gold rings along the way? STEVEN VAN ZANDT, "UNREQUITED INFATUATIONS" AUTHOR: Yeah, yeah, I think going back and reliving it really was helpful, I must say, because I don`t really, you know, think about the past very often. And I really went back and try to be in those moments. And, yeah, you know, you realize that while everyone has a bit of disappointment in their life and a bit of frustration, it`s what you do with that, that matters, you know, and, you know, and I don`t want to sound in any way ungrateful about my amazing success with the E Street Band or Sopranos or Lilyhammer, or even Sun City, which was a big success, you know, but the personal part of my work, you know, that has not reached an audience, you know, it can sometimes be a little bit frustrating. And I think that`s probably common for everybody that goes through life, you`re eventually going to have some disappointment. And that`s not the point. The point is, what do you do after that? You know, what happens after the disappointment? What do you do with it? You know. WILLIAMS: Let`s run through some of the gold rings. Husband, Maureen, father to Edie, the dog, importantly, your years with Bruce and the E Street Band, you made such a huge contribution to the dismantling of apartheid, the freeing of Mandela, through Sun City and your activism. First dedicated music channels on Sirius XM, you were the guy first streaming series ever on Netflix. Lilyhammer when they were still mailing out CDs and paper envelopes to our houses. And you were a founding father, let`s not forget, of a sound of a sub-genre of Rock and Roll, the Jersey Shore sound the Asbury Park sound instantly recognizable of that list. What are you proudest of? ZANDT: Well, you know, I think the radio formats, both of them are going to live beyond me, I hope, both the Underground Garage and Outlaw Country. I think they`re both extremely important formats that include the best of the old and the best of the new. We have introduced over 1000 new bands, in addition to playing all the cool stuff from 1951 on, all 70 years of rock and soul. I think I`m also very proud of what we did in South Africa. The four of us, the Four Musketeers, me, Danny Schechter, Arthur Baker and Hart Perry, and 50 artists, and an entire movement, including the United Nations. I mean, it was a big movement. It just wasn`t that big in America at the time, you know, we kind of lit the fuse for that one. And I think my teach rock, my music history curriculum, I think is probably going to be my most important contribution, I think that`ll also be important. We`re trying to completely revolutionize the education system, by integrating the arts into every single discipline and not just as an extra class or an after-school class. But integrating the arts literally into every single discipline, turning stem, science, technology, engineering, and math into stem, you know, adding the arts into the middle of that. And I think that will change actually -- change the way kids learn if we can get that distributed and we`re doing quite well with that. WILLIAMS: I hope people who read the book concentrate on that portion 40,000 teachers have signed up across the country and this has been a huge passion of Steven. [23:35:03] Also reading the book, what occurs to me is you have -- I don`t think I`m missing anybody. You`ve met all of your heroes. What`s that been like? And have you ever been disappointed? ZANDT: I had a very, very unpleasant experience very early in life, which I talked about in the book regarding an autograph, which I wasn`t even interested in, but my friends talk me into, and ever since then, I did never wanted to meet one of my heroes. I tried to avoid my heroes as much as I can. And ironically, I ended up, you know, recording and producing 50 of them on the Sun City record. And meeting, you know, pretty much, you know, as you say, pretty much meeting all my heroes slowly through the years. But I try to avoid it because, you know, if they turn out to be unpleasant in any way, it`s going to really affect my ability to enjoy the music. So, you know, I try to avoid that stuff if I can. WILLIAMS: I`ll tiptoe up to next topic by noting that political activism has been a huge part of your life. I am tempted knowing something about your politics to ask you, what you make of the Democrats and how they are living with the power they have been handed. I`m also tempted to ask you, has there ever been a time when you`ve been more pessimistic about your country, anyone who follows you on social media would know this about you? ZANDT: I got to admit, it`s a little depressing at the moment, a little frustrating. You know, I don`t know how you do this every night, Brian, keep your subtle, but amazing humor, in fact. WILLIAMS: Because I know you`re watching. ZANDT: And believe me, you really do help. You know, I mean, I`m rooting for Joe Biden every single day, I really am, you know. I just got this terrible feeling. You know, and I`ve had this for a long, long time that we are in a war, and only one side is fighting it. And I have been feeling that for decades. And it`s really coming to a very serious place now where we might lose our democracy because of it, you know. And I just -- I`m not happy with what`s going on here. I`m not happy with, you know, our attorney general. You know, I would have preferred, you know, Malcolm Nance to be Attorney General. We don`t really need the attorney part. But we do need a general, you know. We need some -- I just keep asking, where are the tough good guys, you know, and I just can`t find them, Brian, and we need them. We need them now. We need the general patent, you know. I mean, I`ll take Teddy Roosevelt, they`ll take, you know, give me somebody, you know, who`s got a little courage and a little strength and realizes that we`re in a war and we just don`t seem to have the people with the right frame of mind. And as I say, I just -- I keep rooting for Joe, you know, but you know, the two -- the Benedict Arnold twins, they`re not helping matters. And then they`re -- you know, they better. I hope they come around. I don`t know, I don`t want to see Manchin on TV ever again. I`m sick of his face. And I don`t understand. I mean, you tell me, you know, there was a few Republicans that voted for impeachment, right, on both sides, Senate and the House. I wonder if they could be converted. You know, could they be converted to Democrats? Isn`t that, is that legal? You would know better than me. WILLIAMS: I think you need to get on Amtrak and go down to Washington. I`m going to nicely avoid that question by holding up this book, telling you in our audience, we`re going to fit in a break. And we`re going to continue our discussion on the other side. We`re going to talk about some characters from New Jersey folks may know pretty well. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:42:16] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bert, let me know the other night, he`s been playing both sides of the fence with New York. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bert? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Measures were taken. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never saw myself as that kind of guy. No more behind the scenes, vice, strategy. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, cheer me up. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just when I thought I was out. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pull me back end. (END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: Some great stuff there. Some great stuff, Silvio in the bang. Silvio with Steve`s real-life wife, Maureen. Silvio doing pachino (ph) worlds colliding. Steven Van Zandt remains with us. So, Steven, do I have this about, right? You`re not an actor. David Chase cold calls you and says we`re putting together this series on HBO, about the mob. You read for the part of Tony Soprano. Both sides think better of it. You develop the character of the conciliary, even the name Silvio Dante. Do I have that about right? ZANDT: Well, I know it sounds ridiculous. But yes, you got it right. Yeah, you know, he just -- he had been in TV a long time. This was going to be I think his last TV show. He wanted to start making movies. David Chase was talking about and, you know, he wanted new faces. He wanted to break all the rules, basically. And he did break all the rules. He didn`t know he would be revolutionizing television when he did so. But he broke all the rules and after HBO said, you know, what, are you crazy? We`re not going to cast a guy who never acted before as the lead. You know, cooler heads prevail, and he said, you know, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I tell you the truth now that I think about it, I really kind of feel guilty taking an actor`s job. You know, I know what they have to go through. My wife`s a real actor. She goes to classes all the time and Off-Broadway and off Off-Broadway. So, he said all right, all right, you`re not going to take another actor`s job. I`m going to write you in apart. You know, so, you know, what do you want to do? Well, I had this treatment of an independent Hitman named Silvio Dante and then he ran a club like the Copacabana, he kind of lived in the past, you know, set in present day but he kind of romanticize the mobs past and he had like a 50s look and all the five families had had, you know, tables in the club and, you know, big bands and Catskills comics, dancing girls and, you know, and, you know, basically it was kind of like a mob version of Casablanca basically. And he says, well, that`s sounds interesting. And he came back a few days later and said that we can`t afford it, but we`re going to make it a strip club, and you`ll run a strip club for a family and so we started there. [23:45:11] And then and then, you know, I had written a little bit of a biography of the guy saying they were best friends with Tony Soprano, they grew up together, not thinking that I was 20 years older than him, of course, since I`m 25 in my head all the time. And, you know, and then slowly me and Jimmy actually bonded on the set, I think because he was more of a character actor and so was I. You know, I was more of a sideman, and we both did not have aspirations to be the front guy, in other words to be the star. And so, we kind of bonded on that level very quickly. And I think David Chase picked up on that. And slowly by the end of the first season, I kind of had become the underboss and the conciliary, you know, sometimes those are two different guys. And sometimes they`re the one guy that`s an important role in a mob family that actually wasn`t there. So, I kind of fill the vacuum that didn`t exist, you know, really, you know, and -- WILLIAMS: I was going to say the -- ZANDT: Go ahead. WILLIAMS: I was going to say, the current string of repeats that HBO is airing and preparation for the release of the movie only makes U.S. more wistful for the series for those days. And of course, for Jimmy, who`s not with us. ZANDT: Absolutely, yeah. And, you know, then the prequels great, by the way, but -- so anyway, I just kind of fell into that role and then realized, wait a minute, this is very similar to, you know, my relationship with Bruce Springsteen, all those years and so suddenly, I felt very, very comfortable in it because I knew what those dynamics, you know, how that works, you know, how you`re the one guy that the boss trusts, you`re the guy that -- you`re the only guy that doesn`t want to be the boss, you`re the only guy who can bring him bad news, because you`re the only guy who doesn`t fear the boss, you know, and that really started to really, really clicked, you know, on the set and in the writers minds. And David Chase, just very naturally started to incorporate that into the scripts. So, I was very comfortable with that because I knew how to do that, and I`ve been doing it my whole life. WILLIAMS: So, help me out with something you and I grew up, what, mile and a half apart, same town, I want to go to your high school, we`ll leave names out of it. My mother says you`re not going to that drug den. That relegated me to four years of a Catholic High School right near your house. So, we were both raised by classic Republican military veterans, same similar households. But looking back I was raised in a proper New York Giants household where there was talk of names like Gifford and Cabbage (ph) and Robustelli. I`m curious, Steve, what happened to you why do you root for the Eagles? We in Giants nation invite you to come on over and every Sunday join us in embracing the suck. ZANDT: Well, first of all, I have a valid excuse in that. My father was a big fan of Norm Van Brocklin, you know, you can kind of sense the Van thing in common, you know, the Dutch man. WILLIAMS: Yeah. ZANDT: And he, I believe was -- what team was he with, Brian, as I recall? WILLIAMS: OK, that was a long time ago. So was concrete Charlie Bednarik. But this is the modern era. The Giants lose more often now. Steve, I`m going to go. I`m going to save you from groveling. Eagles Nation be proud that you have Steve Van Zandt living and dying and it`s been -- it was a rough weekend for my friend Steve. The pride of our hometown of Middletown, New Jersey. Steven Van Zandt has been our guest tonight. With our thanks, of course, again. The book is right here. It`s called, Unrequited Infatuations, a memoir. It is available right now starting today. The book has it all, sex, drugs, rock and roll in unequal measure, and the true story behind the bandana while you`re at it, get his album Soulfire while you`re at it, get the live album as well. Get anything he`s ever recorded. Thank you, Steve. Terrific to see you. Coming up for us, a story you should see if overseas travel as they say is in your future plans. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:52:49] WILLIAMS: Most international travel into our country remains either banned or restricted until at least November but vaccinated Americans are already free to travel abroad, and it will take more than just your passport and a ticket to get there. We get our report tonight from NBC News Correspondent Tom Costello, who is just back from his own European trip. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TOM COSTELLO, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While the U.S. has remained off limits to most international visitors, Europe reopen to fully vaccinated Americans this summer, and it could get busier over the holidays. But before you even board a flight you must upload your CDC vaccine card to the airline`s website. Many countries health departments also require it. Europeans use a phone app that displays their vaccination status. Americans can use their CDC cards but don`t forget it. (On camera): You`re in France, you need to show your CDC vaccine card to eat at a restaurant. (Voice-over): You`ll also show your car to get into art shows and sporting events. (On camera): You even show your vaccine past to go hiking through a French National Park. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve had the show to get on an airplane. We`ve had to show it to get into restaurants, museums, to any kind of public place, and that`s fine. We`re good with that. COSTELLO: While the rules change often most European countries do require Americans to provide proof of vaccination, but don`t require further testing or quarantine. Though Sweden is not allowing Americans to fly directly from the U.S. and Britain still requires testing. Despite sporadic protests, Europeans generally support the mandates, masks required in grocery stores, train stations, even some outdoor markets. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it means that we can travel that`s -- so be it. COSTELLO: Returning home to the U.S. does require a test. I used one that I bought from the airline that requires a video call with a technician who verifies the results after 15 minutes. I see only one pink line on the test card. I think I`m negative. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have tested negative for COVID-19. COSTELLO: COVID negative and free to fly home. Tom Costello, NBC News. (END VIDEOTAPE) WILLIAMS: And coming up next for us, are we about to cut off pay for members of the U.S. military. It`s a possibility. We`ll talk about. [23:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) WILLIAMS: Last thing before we go tonight Republicans in the Senate had a chance yesterday to draw the nation back from the default break. They voted against it every last one of them. Just today as we said in some Olympic level gaslighting Mitch McConnell, with a straight face said the Democrats seem to lack the urgency to act. If you don`t know better, it sounded almost sincere. If not for the predictions that would throw millions out of work and throw U.S. into a recession. We chalk it all up to mere posing. The Republicans may not want to admit it. But there are huge repercussions if that happens and the folks behind vote vets are out with a new spot designed to point that out. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a world full of military challenges, terrorists waiting for their moment. China pushing the limits and a new threat emerging that goes right at the heart of our national security. Coming from Mitch McConnell and his Republican Band Brothers in the United States Senate. They flaunt a political war that could hold our troops paychecks hostage, threatening a government default that could stop military pay, threatening the security of 1.4 million active-duty troops of people who fly the skies, course the seas, and run toward danger to defend and protect the United States. Military families who struggle to get by, in the best of times, cut off from their pay in the middle of a pandemic. Hey Mitch, knock off the politics and pay our patriots. (END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: Vote vets to take us off the air. And with that, our Tuesday night broadcast with our thanks for being here with us. On behalf of all our colleagues at the networks of NBC News, good night. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)