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Transcript: The 11th Hour with Brian Williams, 4/2/21

Guests: Frank Figliuzzi, Channa Lloyd, Bill Kristol, David Jolly


One U.S. Capitol Police officer has died and another is injured after a suspect rammed a vehicle into a police barricade outside the Capitol building Friday afternoon. The officer was identified by Pittman later Friday as Officer William "Billy" Evans, an 18-year veteran of the force and a member of its "First Responders Unit. The suspect has been identified as Noah Green, 25 years old. GOP Rep. Gaetz, investigated over alleged relationship with teen, denies criminal wrongdoing. Gaetz is finding few allies among Florida Republicans. John Boehner unloads on Republican "crazy caucus" in new book excerpt. The CDC now says it`s safe for fully vaccinated people to travel around the country, but relaxed recommendations only go so far.


ALI VELSHI, MSNBC HOST: I got to tell you, for all the stuff we`ve talked about in the last four years, I cannot believe this conversations actually happening. What a wild story. Thanks to you, Matt Fuller for your great reporting on this. As you said, this is still a story that is unfolding right now. Thanks, Cynthia, for your wisdom on this. Cynthia Alksne is a former federal prosecutor and an MSNBC Legal Analyst. That`s Tonight`s Last Word. You can catch me tomorrow morning on Velshi 8 a.m. TO 11 a.m. Eastern. The 11th Hour with Brian Williams starts right now.

CHRIS JANSING, MSNBC HOST: Good evening. I`m Chris Jansing in for Brian Williams. Day 73 of the Biden administration. Nearly three months to the day after the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. A new attack taking the life of a Capitol Police officer and injuring another, it happened just after one o`clock this afternoon near the Senate side of the building. The attacker struck the officers with his car then rammed into a security barrier.


YOGANANDA PITTMAN, ACTING CHIEF U.S. CAPITAL POLICE: The suspect exited the vehicle with a knife in hand. He did not respond to verbal commands. The suspect did start lunging toward U.S. Capitol Police officers at what at which time, U.S. Capitol Police officers fired upon the suspect. The suspect has been pronounced deceased.


JANSING: The response from law enforcement agencies and the National Guard was immediate and the Capitol was locked down. The two officers rushed to the hospital. William Evans, an 18-year veteran of the Capitol Police Force and a member of the First Responders Unit died of his injuries.

The Department of course has been reeling since the January 6 riot and the death of Officer Brian Sicknick. The Acting Chief noted this stress that her officers have been under.


PITTMAN: Please keep the United States Capitol Police family in your thoughts and prayers at this time. It has been an extremely difficult and challenging year for us. But we will get through this and we do appreciate the community support.


JANSING: Late today Capitol Police motorcade escorted Evans body. President Biden ordered flags to be flown at half-staff on all federal buildings until April 6 in honor of Evans and the other injured officer who is in stable condition, and his injury is said to be not life threatening.

Authorities say the attack appears to have no link to terrorism identifying the suspect as 25-year-old Noah Green. His social media posts reference the Nation of Islam and its leader, Louis Farrakhan. He posted the "end times about how the last few years have been tough, and the past few months tougher."

The House and Senate are at recess, so the complex was far less busy than usual. But today`s attack comes amid a debate among members over the heightened security measures put in place just after the insurrection.

Lieutenant General Russel Honore who reviewed Capitol security after the January sixth siege, says Congress needs to make changes quickly to prevent future attacks.


LT. GENERAL RUSSEL HONORE, U.S. ARMY (Ret): The transition we have to make in our minds that the Capitol is a target. Many members challenged the recommendations some of the recommendations we made in terms of barriers that need in hardening of the capital, while keeping the capital open to the public. And the challenge was they would tell me, hey, we`ve gone to the skiff General, we`re not seeing any threats to the capital. We need to adjust to that. We need to take those recommendations we made and get them funded up to about $2 billion and get it done because our capital must be protected.


JANSING: Also, today there`s new travel guidance from the Centers for Disease Control for people who have been fully vaccinated.


DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: For domestic travel, fully vaccinated people do not need to get a COVID-19 test before or after travel and do not need to self-quarantine after travel. For example, fully vaccinated grandparents can fly to visit their healthy grandkids without getting a COVID-19 test or self-quarantining. Fully vaccinated people do not need to get a COVID-19 test before they leave the United States. Fully vaccinated people should get tested and have a negative test result before they board an international flight back into the United States. But they do not need to quarantine when they arrive here.


JANSING: A couple of things to note here though, the CDC advises travelers they have to continue to wear masks while traveling even if you`re fully vaccinated. The agency also is not recommending travel at this time due to the rising number of COVID cases. Still, with vaccinations picking up there are now signs the economy might be starting to recover from the pandemic, hiring picked up last month, as employers added more than expected 916,000 jobs.

President Biden welcoming the news while also making a pitch for his new $2.2 trillion infrastructure and jobs plan.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fights far from over, that`s why I proposed American jobs plan. I`m going to be began meeting with Democrats, Republicans about this plan. I`ve spoken to Republicans on the phone. I`ve been looking forward to meeting with them. They all have their ideas about what it will take what they like and what they don`t like, in action is not an option. There are still 8.4 million fewer jobs today than there were last March.


JANSING: Amid all of this, there are mounting questions about the future of Matt Gaetz, the Republican Congressman who is now the subject of a federal investigation into whether he was involved in sex trafficking. His office says he has never paid for sex and he denies any relationship with a 17- year-old, calling the allegations against him totally false. Today, he told the Hill newspaper he has no plans to resign. Earlier the White House was also asked to weigh in on Gaetz.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the President aware of the reporting and the investigation into Congressman Matt Gaetz? And does he believe that the congressman should resign?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don`t think we have any further comment. I`d refer you to the legal authorities. Those are decisions that we`ll let leaders in Congress make.


JANSING: With that, let`s bring in our leadoff guests on this Friday night, Susan Page, Veteran Journalist, Best Selling Author and USA Today Washington Bureau Chief, her upcoming book, Madam Speaker: Nancy Pelosi and the Lessons of Power is out later this month. Also, with us tonight, Yamiche Alcindor, White House Correspondent for PBS News Hour, and Frank Figliuzzi, former FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence.

Great of all of you to be with us on this holiday weekend. Frank, let`s start with what happened today. And the Washington Post is reporting that the officer who was killed was the father of young children. It is an unspeakable tragedy. Even with a quick response to protect the capital, that officer still lost his life. And we`ve heard a number of lawmakers calling for an end to some of the measures in place in January six, you just heard General Honore say the new suggestion they have, there`s been pushback against them. What`s your assessment tonight?

FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE: First, let me offer my condolences to the family of the deceased officer who in a sense died protecting all of us because he was protecting our Capitol, our symbol of democracy and condolences to the extended family, which is his entire department that`s been going through a hell of a last couple of months. We stand by those officers and their mission to protect our capital.

But I am concerned, Chris, that there has been a kind of politicizing of the security planning and posture. We`ve managed to politicize a pandemic in this country. And I fear we`re politicizing even the recommendations of retired General Honore to simply fill the existing vacancies, of which there could be as many as 200 on the Capitol Police Force and to create a quick reaction force for something like this today that consists of multi- agencies or National Guard and or Capitol Police. I don`t believe steps have been taken in that direction. I see fighting, partisan fighting in the House and Senate over these recommendations. It`s time to protect our capital for the target that it has become, and the building itself is a target.

JANSING: And that security review, Susan Page said and I`m quoting here, Capitol Police are understaffed and insufficiently equipped. It recommends 852 new positions. But then what are the chances -- this today sparks any change when the report itself when it came out, was criticized as politically motivated by among others, Kevin McCarthy is anything likely to change?

SUSAN PAGE, USA TODAY WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: I think today`s tragedy has the possibility of having some impact on this debate. And we saw that some effort by some Republicans to downplay the threat on January 6, this is a reminder that the threat is not just in -- that something extraordinary, like the storming of the Capitol. It`s from political action. It`s from mentally ill people who are trying to make a point or get some attention. It`s clear that the Capitol is becoming a target and that can draw these kinds of incidents.

So, we heard, for instance, Mitch McConnell a month ago, say that the reaction with all this, with the barriers that have been put up have been overdone. You did not hear him say that today. So yes, I think this could be part of the debate. And it certainly should be.

JANSING: You know, Yamiche, I think it`s almost an understatement what Frank just said that it`s been a hell of a last couple of months for members of the Capitol Police Force. I mean, they`ve been working 18-hour days, often six days a week, the emotional toll that today is going to add on to what already happened on January 6, give us a sense of the mood there in Washington, D.C. and what the White House is saying tonight.

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, PBS NEWSHOUR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The mood in Washington D.C. is really one of people feeling on edge, feeling traumatized, feeling scared about the future. There is really this growing sense that that things are going to be completely different after January 6, and that people in some ways are going to have to get comfortable with the idea that security at the Capitol is going to have to be beefed up. Much like it was beefed up around the White House. There was a time where you could walk up and touch the gates of the White House. Now that of course is not happening anymore, you now have fencing that has really evolved over the last few years. And that I think is what -- is the same direction that we`re going to see at the Capitol. Another thing to note is that there`s this sense when you walk into the Capitol, I was just there yesterday, there was this kind of an impending sense of things could get worse again, things could happen in a way that where people would not be safe. There was a moment where you used to walk into the Capitol, and you felt like you were in the safest place on Earth. There really isn`t that feeling anymore picking up my badge yesterday, in the back of my mind, I was thinking, is this badge going to be the thing that lets me get into the next Trump traumatizing event that happens at the Capitol.

Over at the White House, President Biden, he`s ordered the flags at the White House in federal properties to be flown at half-staff. The White House really is trying to navigate this post January 6 world where security is top of mind where national security is top of mind. And as Susan said it today really underscores that it`s not just domestic terrorists and people with political motivations, but it`s also people with possible mental health issues, all sorts of other threats that could be facing in the Capitol. And then that`s something that has to be top of mind for folks.

And I think there is this sense that it`s politicized, that the idea of security ism has been politicized. But I think today could make things a little different because you have this Capitol Police Force, with the captain saying today, they`ve been through so much they`ve been traumatized, morale is really, really low. And now you have the public who is really worried about whether or not we can all be kept safe here in Washington, D.C.

JANSING: And that bottom line that people can go to the Capitol and feel safe, Frank, again, laid out in that report. But when you talk about some of the big items, whether it`s more training, whether it is more equipment, whether it is hiring more than 850 new personnel, those are not things that happened quickly. What will you be looking at or what can be done in just the coming days, the coming weeks, at least to try to say OK, we`re doing everything we can right now to make sure it`s as safe as humanly possible given the circumstances?

FIGLIUZZI: Yeah, two things, Chris, I think can be done fairly quickly. First, that perimeter that outer perimeter needs to remain hardened. Taking that outer perimeter net down now makes no sense to me, particularly with a risk of copycats.

Secondly, you can assemble a quick reaction force, a multi-agency forest by reaching out and tapping into a tactical team from FBI, a tactical team from marshals, a tactical team from, you know, et cetera, Capitol Police, Metro Police, get them together now, ready to staged permanently rotating around the Capitol region to respond quickly to something like this. Today, we saw the National Guard move in quickly, but it would not have been quick enough, had this been a more large, organized terrorist attack.

JANSING: Yamiche, before this horrific incident today, the White House was actually having a good day. The president touting better than expected job numbers on the heels of a fast-growing number of vaccinations. Now he`s unveiled another major piece of his agenda in the infrastructure bill, but I want to read what Peggy Noonan wrote about it, "If it works, it`s going to change a lot of assumptions in American politics. If it doesn`t, it will be a cautionary tale." Talk a little bit about the White House strategy in this early rollout of the goals that are essentially aimed at transforming American society. The President`s been very open about this. This is a long-term goal that is going to transform infrastructure in the United States.

ALCINDOR: That`s right. This is an ambitious plan $2.25 trillion of an infrastructure plan. President Biden said that he sees this as a generational change. This is also about not just upgrading roads and bridges and clean water, but it`s also their focus on money in there for elderly and the disabled. This is really a rethinking of the way that American society functions. And this is -- this seems to be a plan that Democrats are going to be able to get behind. There is some talk already from progressives that this might not be enough money, when you think of $2.25 trillion. There are some other plans floating around the house for $10 trillion, just focus on climate change. But this bill is still a bill that it seems as though Democrats are going to be able to try to push through Congress if they can get a reconciliation, which is this wonky word that we`re all going to be talking about if they can do this, which is just another way to say they can pass this bill with the support of only Democrats and not a single Republican vote.

Republicans have already signaled that that`s pretty much a done deal that none of them are going to want to back this bill. They`re calling it bloated, saying that it has too much money. But this is a big bet from the Biden administration saying we`re going to put more money into the structure of this country. And that`s going to help people not just with infrastructure, but really with climate change with the way we treat the most vulnerable in our populations, and also with equity. And that`s a big part of this plan. They mentioned that they are targeting things in this plan to address racial injustice in this country as well.

JANSING: Susan, Joe Biden has also been very vocal about objecting to the new Georgia voting law as well as similar efforts in other states, and there are hundreds of proposals and states across the country. Today, we saw a big move Major League Baseball, pulling its all-star game out of Atlanta, put into context, if you can, how this issue of voting rights has kind of moved into the center, not just of the political, but the cultural conversation. And you`ve got to wonder if other states are going to take note?

PAGE: You know, I think we have seen it. And related to this is the trial going on in Minneapolis for the death of George Floyd. We have seen a kind of racial reckoning in this country that is still going on. That involves not only law enforcement and police procedure. It involves things like what efforts to restrict access to the ballot box. So, you had Georgia pass that law, they`re paying a price now you`ve got the all-star game moving. You`ve got some threatened boycotts against big companies here. You see now action in Texas, which is the next big battleground for state laws to restrict voting with a lot of companies, I think about 200 companies today issuing statements expressing concern about that. That means it is not just a fight that involves politicians. This has now become a fight in which corporations are expected to take a stand. It really flex. I think, a shifting in our broader culture beyond a political debate into what kind of nation we are in, especially as we address this issue of race in the country. Chris, it`s going to be an interesting time.

JANSING: Susan Page, Yamiche Alcindor, and Frank Figliuzzi, thank you so much for starting us out on a Friday night. We appreciate it.

And coming up, as the first week of witness testimony comes to a close in the Chauvin trial, one witness delivers what could be the most critical blow yet to the defense.

And later, the difference between what you can do and what the CDC says you should do once you`re fully vaccinated. We`ve got a doctor who can break it all down for us. The 11th Hour, just getting underway on a Friday night.



MATTHEW FRANK, MINNESOTA ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Have you ever in all the years you`ve been working for the Minneapolis Police Department been trained to kneel on the neck of someone who is handcuffed behind their back in a prone position?


FRANK: Is that -- if that were done, would that be considered force?

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.

RANK: What level of force might that be?

ZIMMERMAN: That would be the top tier, the deadly force.


JANSING: Powerful testimony today from the longest serving officer in the Minneapolis police department who responded to the scene after George Floyd was taken away in an ambulance.

Lieutenant Richard Zimmerman was also one of 14 veteran officers who published a letter last summer condemning Derek Chauvin. His testimony a direct challenge to the defense argument that Chauvin did exactly what he had been trained to do.


FRANK: What is your view of that use of force during that time period?

ZIMMERMAN: Totally unnecessary. I saw no reason why the officers felt they were in danger if that`s what they felt. And that`s what they would have to feel to be able to use that kind of force.


JANSING: We welcome to the broadcast, Channa Lloyd, a wrongful death and civil rights attorney, who was a Managing Partner at the Cochran Firm in Orlando, Florida.

It`s good to have you here. I`ve watched most of this trial. I don`t think it`s an exaggeration to say it has been an emotionally harrowing week certainly for these jurors as they watched as well as heard what was in that courtroom. So here we are the Friday before Easter weekend. What was the prosecution trying to accomplish with Lieutenant Zimmerman`s testimony? And do you think they were successful?

CHANNA LLOYD, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I think the prosecution was successful in accomplishing several things. They`ve laid this foundation of very emotional testimony watching this video that creates a visceral reaction. So, they`ve got the emotional, feel happening, that they want, the impact. Now they`re tying that emotion to facts. Here we have law enforcement testifying that what they saw was or what they witnessed or re-watched in the video was an unreasonable use of force. This is so profoundly different than what we`ve seen in other cases. First, we have law enforcement speaking out against other law -- and other law enforcement officers saying that it was unreasonable, it was unnecessarily long, and that it shouldn`t have been used. That`s a very big departure from what we`ve seen in the past. So that`s going to have a significant impact on our jury, especially coming from officers with such long 10 years and such experience with training and use of force. This is a significant tie to the emotional aspect of the video.

JANSING: And the difference still seems intent on arguing that Chauvin was acting in self-defense.



ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You would agree, however, that in a fight for your life, generally speaking, in a fight for your life, you as an officer are allowed to use whatever force is reasonable and necessary, correct?


NELSON: And that can even involve improvisation, agreed?


FRANK: Based on your review of the body cams, did you see any need for Officer Chauvin to improvise by putting his knee on Mr. Floyd for nine minutes and 29 seconds?



JANSING: There was a lot of back and forth similar to that in the eyes of the jury who wins that argument?

LLOYD: In the eyes of the jury, I think the prosecution has proved their case, I think they would win this point, because the defense is going back to this argument that this was -- there was a threat, the crowd could have got gotten aggressive at any moment, George Floyd himself could have suddenly become much more aggressive in the situation change. But I think that great equalizer, and this is the video. We`ve seen it from every angle. We`ve seen it multiple times. We see that this was a crowd that had concern. They responded to everything the officer said. They backed up when they were asked to backup. There was no one that was being overly aggressive in this crowd.

JANSING: There`s another part of this trial that I think has come through loud and clear. And actually, the Washington Post Editorial Board writes about it today in a column, under the headline, it is painfully clear that George Floyd wasn`t the only victim in this killing. It goes on to say, "Those who are forced to stand by helplessly and watch as 46-year-old Floyd died, gasping for breath, despite their desperate pleas to police, have been forever changed. Chauvin left many of them feeling guilty or ashamed, though Ms. Frazier had it exactly right when she testified, `It`s not what I should have done, it`s what he should have done."

We saw Darnella Frazier, the teenager who testified Tuesday. She`s still haunted by Floyd`s death. Christopher Martin says he wishes he`d never taken that $20 bill. What happens to these victims once the trial ends? Where`s the accountability to them and to all the people who are so traumatized by what they`ve been through?

LLOYD: This is the unfortunate part of this type of an incident. It not only affects a family, it affects the community. And in this case, we have bystanders that stood there and came to one conscious thought, something`s wrong. This has to stop. Each one of these individuals is going to be seriously impacted by the trauma and the guilt that they feel. They cried out and asked and wanted help. They wanted someone to just take a look at George, just feel his pulse. Some people said they`re going to carry that with them, especially when they are looking at someone who has been sworn to protect and serve the people that are standing right there. That`s going to be something that`s going to be very heavy, and that`s going to affect each one of these persons as they move through their lives.

JANSING: Channa Lloyd, thank you so much. That trial resumes on Monday.

And coming up, they are two of the more provocative faces of the GOP. Tonight, one is in the political battle of his life. We`ll talk to two former Republican Party insiders when the 11th Hour continues.


JANSING: Tonight, Congressman Matt Gaetz his future in Congress is appearing more tenuous by the day as allegations of questionable and illegal interactions with women continue to surface. The Washington Post reports tonight the Gaetz quote repeatedly boasted to people involved in Florida politics about women he met through a county tax collector who has since been charged by federal authorities with sex trafficking of a minor.

And the New York Times dropped this bombshell last night that a Justice Department investigation is focusing on his involvement with multiple women who were recruited online for sex and received cash payments.

While Gaetz has vehemently denied ever paying women for sex or having sex with underage women, there are signs some of his staff have lost faith in their boss. Just today his communications director announced his resignation, and more are likely to follow.

Here to talk about it. Bill Kristol, the author and writer and thinker and Politico, a veteran of the Reagan and Bush administrations, editor-at-large the Bulwark, and David Jolly, former Republican and former member of the U.S. House of Representatives, now chairman of the Serve America movement, a group of current and former Democrats, Republicans and independents working to fix the nation`s broken politics. Good to see you guys.

So Bill, you call this you tweeted last night, you expected Gaetz and staff to start jumping ship and sure enough they have he says he`s not going to resign though what do you see as his future?

BILL KRISTOL, THE BULWARK EDITOR-AT-LARGE: I think you may have to resign, he may get indicted, or we may get expelled from the House of Representatives if he`s indicted and refuses to step aside. It is very revealing as communications director not just any low-level staffer quit presumably he has no confidence anymore that his boss is telling the truth or has done things that are worth defending are possible to defend in good conscience.

And I assume others will quit, I think you always have, I would say personally I would advise them to do so. I think it`s the honorable thing to do. And given what we it certainly seems to be the case of how Gaetz`s behavior.

You know, there`s so it`s so you know, it`s so distasteful and in a way and also so easy to make jokes about I suppose, and in a way but one forgets how really terrible it is, you know, exploiting for this kind of predatory sexual behavior by a powerful man, exploiting much younger women, whether they`re literally under age or not, with money and with family drugs, and that his buddy, this other fella who seems to broken the law and all kinds of ways, as Gaetz may have to in terms of the what just their his behavior and his behavior while he was a member of the state legislature in Florida, and then a member of congress.

So yes, I think I it`s hard to believe he can survive this but I`m a person who thought Trump couldn`t survive and I thought other Marjorie Taylor Greene, I mean, it`s quite a crew. They have a House Republican conferences, it`s pretty amazing.

JANSING: Well, yes, I mean David Jolly, your fellow Floridian quite familiar with Gaetz as a politician. He loves a fight. But is this different than what he`s faced before?

DAVID JOLLY, SERVE AMERICA MOVEMENT CHAIRMAN: Yes, very much as different Chris and largely tonight Florida Republicans are moving past Matt Gaetz assuming that his political career is over. And that likely some combination of a resignation or an indictment is very likely and Matt Gaetz`s future and it should be if the facts are true as being reported.

And to Bill`s point, I think we often see politics kind of as this arena of sport. But this is not just a typical scandal, the allegation, the indictment against Gaetz`s colleague, Joel Greenberg, is causing a miner to engage in a commercial sex act.

If that is something that Matt Gaetz has also been involved in, I think it`s important we begin to look at these two first as sexual predators, and then as politicians, not as politicians who got caught up in a sex act, this would be sexual predatory behavior involving a child unable to consent to her to her own actions. It`s a very grave matter and it is why Matt gates his political career is likely over.

JANSING: Well, to David`s point, Bill, a Politico has this reporting today, I`m reading from their article. As Gaetz mounts of vigorous public defense, he is finding few allies among Florida republicans a testament to his reputation, that even before he became a near constant presence on Fox News, he relished slinging verbal barbs and getting into rhetorical fistfights with opponents regardless of party affiliation. What do you make of the radio silence largely from fellow Republicans?

KRISTOL: Well, Chris, I mean as David knows it`s yes, radio silence I guess it`s better than endorsements. He`s got a few of those. Jim Jordan said he believed Matt Gaetz. But what strikes me is where`s a little bit of indignation, a little bit of a sense that this is terrible if this happened, and a little bit of a sense that this man shouldn`t be serving with us in our conference in Congress. So I`ve heard none of that.

Now. We don`t know what happened yet. But has he been called it? And have they tried to find out what find out what happened is Kevin McCarthy, person to person asked Matt Gaetz what the truth is about these various allegations, as Jim Jordan, the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, have the two Florida senators, has the Florida governor.

So they`re, they`re happy not to know anything, which means they can just keep quiet. What kind of responsibility is that? You know, that it`s just it`s just like with Trump, they`re, they`re pretending they don`t know that this is going on. And they`re busy tweeting about major league baseball and the all star game instead of about one of their colleagues, they don`t seem at all interested in hoping to account.

JANSING: Well, David Jolly, you know, a lot of the members of that caucus. And do you believe these reports that there -- it was known if not widely known that it was known that there were these problems with Matt Gaetz, and that there was a lot of conversation about it? Do you believe that this happened, and nobody said anything? Nobody did anything that the leadership didn`t address it?

JOLLY: Yes, look, I would like to thank the colleagues, we`re not aware of criminal behavior. But people are very much aware of Matt Gaetz`s playboy personality. He arrived in Washington with it. Anyone who knew Matt Gaetz and had followed him in Florida knew that it was only a matter of time before he found scandal or scandal found him. In this case, though the scandal has a victim. If true, if proven true, that is an underage child.

The question to Bill`s point is what do Republicans do about it? Now, two of Matt`s closest allies in politics are governor Ron DeSantis and former President Donald Trump, neither of whom are willing to speak publicly on this matter.

And I think that says as much about DeSantis and Trump as it does about Gaetz in this moment. House Republicans will have to determine what to do. Do they remove Matt from committee? Do they wait for an indictment possibly to be handed down? And if Matt refuses to resign, do they expel him from the House? The best thing Matt Gaetz can do right now is shut up, hire a lawyer and resign.

JANSING: What do you expect to happen, Bill Krisol, do you think that it`s going to be a wait and see, and it`s going to depend on what happens within the legal system before anything happens on Capitol Hill?

KRISTOL: don`t know. I mean, I don`t know that. It`s hard to predict these things these days. Scandals that once might have been career enders that turned out not to be at all. But I guess I think he will be held. Yes, I think he will be forced to resign. I think we`ll hear I`m told that people in his districts, a couple of very serious people are looking at maybe getting announcing who had been thinking of running anyway because they thought Gaetz was kind of a disgrace, are now saying they`re going to take gates on one way or the other. So, I think we might see more erosion of political support for gates. But where is DeSantis. We`ve seen all these photos of DeSantis with his buddy Matt Gaetz, could say a word about us.

JANSING: Bill Kristol, David Jolly are both going to stay with us. We`re going to talk about some excerpts from John Boehner`s new book, more 11th Hour after our quick break.


JANSING: And we are back David Jolly, Bill Kristol still with us. And guys, I don`t know if you saw the excerpt in Politico. But John Boehner, former Speaker of the House, my fellow Ohioan had some interesting things to say about the Republican Party. And he starts by talking about 2010 saying you could be a total moron and get elected just by having an R next to your name. And that year, by the way, we did pick up a fair number in that category, adding by 2013 the chaos caucus in the House had built up their own power base thanks to funding right wing media and outrage driven fundraising cash, and now they had a new head lunatic heading the heading - - leading the way who wasn`t even a House member. There is nothing more dangerous than a reckless expletive deleted, who thinks he is smarter than everyone else? Ladies and gentlemen, meet Senator Ted Cruz.

David Jolly, classic Boehner, certainly in this era, but having said that, this he deserves some of the responsibility. Some of the blame from your perspective for what`s happened to the Republican Party.

JOLLY: Does John Boehner a Ted Cruz, look, I think the case could be made for both and I know some of my friends on the left --

JANSING: There`s John Boehner.

JOLLY: Yes, right. Some of my friends on the left today have had some heartburn saying look, John Boehner was the one that that led the opposition to all things Barack Obama and that is correct.

I think though, what banners book presents is almost a timestamp in one of the last evolutions of the Republican Party, which was maybe from the Boehner class over to Ted Cruz, and the Tea Party and why that timestamps important is because of this.

John Boehner, despite his fierce resistance to so much of Barack Obama`s agenda, and he certainly had it, and he was dogged about it. And he used the tools of the House to stop President Obama. Ted Cruz represents a totally different type of government. It`s almost against governing. He was the shutdown leader. He was the one who said, we`re going to have an absolutist ideology. And if you`re not with us, you`re against us.

You can`t govern that way. And that`s where that timestamp happens. At least John Boehner understood you had to govern. Ted Cruz in his class, don`t care about that.

JANSING: He also calls out Michele Bachmann, he talks about Sean Hannity and some of the folks at Fox, Bill Kristol. I mean, many of them still where they were, and Boehner is gone. So, does that tell us anything about hope for return to pre-Trump -- the pre-Trump Republican Party?

KRISTOL: Yes, I think those hopes are pretty are pretty dim. I you people from Ohio, Chris. Now that`s a pretty impressive, kind of tell it like it is types, I guess from Ohio, and Boehner .

JANSING: Did you just say you from Ohio?

KRISTOL: What`s that? Yes, I`m impressed by people from Ohio you, John Boehner. You know, you guys don`t like it is but no, I mean, he seems like he does in this book. And there`s a little bit of fair criticism that he doesn`t take. Maybe it`s just not as much responsibility as he might.

But look, there`s a big difference between partisanship and the kinds of things we`re seeing that. John Boehner, in my opinion, would not have voted to overturn election results. John Boehner, would not have sat there when a Republican president took a party into a total denial of the truth into a big lie, and just say, well, that`s fine. I`m just -- I maybe I won`t go. I won`t. I won`t. Echo him exactly. But I`m certainly not going to criticize him.

So, John Boehner, I mean, Kevin -- John Boehner would have stood up for the rule of law and for the truth, I think, ultimately, and for decency and politics in a way that Kevin McCarthy hasn`t. And in a way that Republicans under Trump didn`t. So, I do think John Boehner whatever your problems with John b Boehner it`s worse today.

JANSING: Bill Kristol, David Jolly, great of you to stay up on a Friday night with us. Thank you so much, appreciate it. We`ll be right back.



DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: All travelers, regardless of vaccination status should continue to wear masks on planes, buses, trains and other forms of public transportation while traveling. While we believe that fully vaccinated people can travel at low risk to themselves, CDC is not recommending travel at this time due to the rising number of cases.


JANSING: So, the CDC relaxing travel guidance for fully vaccinated Americans. But remember, we`re not in the clear yet. The most recent data from the CDC showing the seven-day average of new coronavirus cases is now above 62,000 today, that`s up 8 percent Since last week.

The White House has ramped up efforts to vaccinate more Americans more than 100 million people getting at least one dose of the vaccine. That`s 30 percent of the overall population.

with us tonight, Dr. Vin Gupta, a critical care pulmonologist in Seattle who specializes in these kinds of illnesses, also on faculty at the University of Washington`s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation.

Always good to see you, Dr. Gupta. I want to get some clarity on these new travel guidelines. They say among other things, that people who are fully vaccinated with an FDA authorized vaccine can travel safely within the United States. For international travel fully vaccinated people don`t need a COVID-19 test prior to travel unless their destination requires it. They don`t need to self-quarantine after returning to the United States.

So overall, we`re told the risk is low as long as you wear a mask, but simultaneously, the CDC is still discouraging non-essential travel. Is there some mixed messaging there? Is it just that people want to hear the part where they say you can travel safely if you have both doses of the vaccine?

DR. VIN GUPTA, UNIV. OF WASHINGTON HEALTH METRICS SCIENCE DEPT: Chris, good evening, always good to see you. I agree. I think this might be confusing for the American public. In my opinion, as a lung Doc, I would say we`ve long known that these vaccines are safe and effective to keep you out of the hospital, all of them that are approved in United States.

If you follow the guidance that CDC has put out in terms of safe travel, Chris, I was just on a flight back from doing a nice Houston down in Arizona, I saw a lot of people wearing masks to just cover their mouth, not their nose.

So, if you`re doing all the right things, travel is safe. If you`ve been vaccinated, that`s the message that people should get. Obviously, we would like people to hold off on their travel plans because of this variant spread. And the fact that maybe you could still spread the virus even if you`ve been vaccinated. So that`s why the CDC is being careful.

But if I`m to all your viewers out there, if you need to travel, travel, it`s low risk to you. But do all the things we`ve been begging people to do appropriately mask, make sure you`re practicing hand hygiene, all the things that we`ve been talking about, you should be safe, we`ll keep others safe.

JANSING: So, it is interesting when you travel and I`ve been traveling a lot to see the different variations of what you see in different states and rural versus urban areas. And tell us a little bit about that trip to Arizona. What did you see? And are there any lessons there?

GUPTA: Well, two things. Number one, Chris, I saw that I was caring for an ICU at night that had the median age of the individuals on my census in the intensive care unit. Early 40s. I had that mid 30-year-old patient that had something called Guillain-Barre syndrome, basically full body paralysis, a rare complication of this virus, coronavirus.

That, to me, is such -- it`s so difficult to predict these uncertain side effects from this virus, but they predominantly affect, for example, strokes. I`ve seen that happen occasionally in young people because of uncertainty, especially in the way this virus affects young people. And from what I saw directly with my own two eyes in Arizona, if you`re a young person out there watching this broadcast right now get the vaccine, there is no reason to pose yourself to that risk of uncertainty. So that`s number one.

Number two, Chris, I would just say when we talk about surges, what we see it`s happening out in France with the ICUs in Paris, across India, across Brazil, parts of Toronto, the world is in chaos right now, we`re headed in a better direction.

But what I saw in Arizona was a community hospital that had to basically invent the ventilation and negative press rooms and places that should never have been ICUs. Our progress is fragile. It`s real, but it`s fragile. Stay vigilant, get the vaccine.

JANSING: We`re at a time I got to ask you quickly though, since you were a part of the effort to get the Mariners ballpark open safely. Are you feeling confident about the baseball season this year?

GUPTA: Yes, as long as all 30 teams not just some of them do all commonsense things reduce capacity, follow local and state guidelines and make masks mandatory, social distancing ambassadors something we employed with the Mariners to great effect. Obviously like we had an outdoor stadium in the Mariners most ballparks are outdoors. That`s going to be helpful. Common sense policies, Chris, you can create a safe environment.

JANSING: Dr. Vin Gupta, always great to see you. Thank you so much. More 11th Hour after a quick break.


JANSING: We leave you on this Good Friday with the image of the White House flag flying at half-staff tonight. The third time in three weeks that government flags have been ordered to be lowered the deadly shootings in Georgia and then Colorado and now this in Washington.

Tonight, the nation is remembering Officer William Billy Evans who lost his life defending the Capitol today and the people there. He was an 18-year veteran of the Capitol Police and a member of the Capitol Divisions First Responders Unit and the father of two. Our hearts are with his family and the Capitol Police family.

That is our broadcast for this Friday night. Thank you for being with us. Have a good holiday weekend and on behalf of all my colleagues at the networks of NBC News, good night.