Summary
As children returned to classrooms yesterday in Uvalde Texas for the first time after the mass murder there, one candidate for governor spoke directly to families in that community. The Obamas` official White House portraits were unveiled at the White House today. The last presidential portrait unveiling ceremony took place when President Barack Obama hosted former President George W. Bush and former first lady Laura Bush for the unveiling of their official White House portraits.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Alex.
In my experience -- and I don`t keep a temperature diary. But in Los Angeles, generally, September seems to be the hottest month, hotter than August. So, those alerts might be going out.
ALEX WAGNER, MSNBC HOST I love the very notion of you keeping a temperature diary.
O`DONNELL: I have thought about, but no.
WAGNER: There is always tomorrow, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thanks, Alex.
WAGNER: Have a great show.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Well, if you control the courts, you can do whatever you want. Every dictator knows that. Vladimir Putin knows that.
When he was president, Donald Trump was not smart enough to know that, but Mitch McConnell knew it. And so, the steady stream of Trump appointed judges to federal courts from top to bottom, from district courts through the appeals courts all the way up to the United States Supreme Court were all certified by a right-wing organization that calls itself the Federalist Society, and rushed through Senate confirmation by Mitch McConnell.
And the Trump judges have now so infected the federal judiciary that the Department of Justice for the first time in its history doesn`t know what to do. They don`t know what to do next in a criminal investigation. A Trump judge who was confirmed in the last weeks of the Trump presidency, Aileen Mercedes Cannon, has issued an opinion and order untethered to any pre-existing legal concept and she did it to help Donald Trump delay a criminal investigation of Donald Trump by the Justice Department.
No judge has ever done anything like this. Judge Cannon is ordering the appointment of a so-called special master to study all of the evidence which we now know includes top secret information about the nuclear weapons of another country all of the evidence that was seized by the FBI at Donald Trump`s Florida club on August 8th when he wasn`t even there.
Remember this, about all those top secret documents, they were not in Donald Trump`s possession. It`s worse than that. They were in his possession for a while during the winter but then when he went north to avoid the Florida temperatures of the summer, when he went back up to his New Jersey club around April or May, he left all that stuff, left it in his desk drawer, left it in his office room in that club, left it, unprotected by him. He had no idea what was happening to that material, every single day that it was there since he left it there, and went to another state.
It is the kind of ruling that that judge made that would be instantly overturned on appeal before Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell and the federalist society poisoned the federal judiciary with Trump judges. Every Trump judge is hoping that Donald Trump is returned to the presidency and gets to fill another Supreme Court vacancy. And every Trump judge knows how to qualify for a Supreme Court vacancy in a Trump administration or in any Republican administration in the future, and that is do what Donald Trump wants you to do and do it right now.
The problem for the Justice Department in appealing Judge Cannon`s decision is that the appeals court that they would appeal to is dominated by six Trump judges. And if they rule against the Justice Department, then the next appeal would be to a United States Supreme Court with six right-wing Republican judges who believe and have agreed and put in writing their agreement with the thinking about abortion. This that was advanced 300 years ago in England by judges who also then believed in witches and believed witches should be put to death by the courts of England at that time.
That`s what the Supreme Court is now. The steady march toward enlightenment that the Supreme Court was on for most of the 20th century is no more.
[22:05:05]
You have a Supreme Court that actually looks for guidance in right now in the 21st century to English judges in the 17th century who were then putting witches to death. A Supreme Court that was willing to quote Matthew Hale and Edward Cook who believed in witches and believed in putting to the death. That Supreme Court is capable of anything, anything.
So, tonight, the Justice Department has to fear what would happen in an appeal of Judge Cannon`s order to help Donald Trump. The Justice Department has until Friday to decide what to do. You will hear tonight from the very best about the Justice Department`s dilemma.
First, Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe who taught constitutional law to Attorney General Merrick Garland, and then former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissmann and former Acting Solicitor General Neal Katyal who is an expert in the federal appeals process. None of them have ever had to ponder a situation like this before, never before in their careers or the careers of any current American lawyers have they had to be so concerned about who appointed the judge who is hearing any particular case.
Judge Cannon is now, as I said last night, at the very top of Donald Trump`s short list for the next Supreme Court vacancy if Donald Trump gets to be president again. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis would very much want to elevate Judge Cannon to the Supreme Court from her district court in Florida, if he becomes president.
Judge Aileen Mercedes Cannon is now the hero judge, the hero judge of Trump world and Republican world and therefore the hero judge of every Republican in the United States Senate who would all vote to confirm her to the United States Supreme Court in a flash.
You heard former federal prosecutor Barbara McQuade on this program last night say something she has never said here before, I agree with William Barr, and that is because Donald Trump`s last confirmed Attorney General William Barr is now saying every day that Judge Cannon`s decision is wrong and he is doing it interestingly on Rupert Murdoch`s Fox propaganda channel, which means that is a command decision being made by Rupert Murdoch to invite William Barr on Fox every day so far this week to condemn Judge Cannon`s attempt to help Donald Trump.
Today, William Barr told the Fox audience this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: There is no scenario legally under which the president gets to keep the government documents, whether it`s classified or unclassified. If it deals with government stuff and it`s government it goes back to the -- so if you find very sensitive documents in Trump`s desk along with his passports, that ties Trump to those documents. The passports are things that the government -- you know, their personal stuff to Trump. But the fact that they`re found with the classified documents is evidentiary and the government decides whether that`s relevant. Eventually, he`ll get that stuff back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Donald Trump called William Barr a RINO the first time he said something on Fox opposing the judge`s ruling.
William Barr today said that he hopes the Justice Department appeals Judge Cannon`s decision and he said the evidence is now very close to being enough to prosecute Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARR: Will the government be able to make out a technical case, will they have evidence by which that would -- that they could indict somebody on including him? And I -- that`s the first question and I think they`re getting very close to that point frankly.
But I think at the end of the day, there`s another question is, do you indict a former president? What will that do to the country? What kind of precedent will that set? Will the people really understand that this is not you know failing to return a library book, that this was serious? And so you have to worry about those things.
And I hope that those kinds of factors will incline the administration not to indict him because I don`t want to see him indicted as a former president. But I also think they`ll be under a lot of pressure to indict him because, you know, one question, look, if anyone else would have gotten indicted, why not indict him?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The Federalist Society did this. The Federalist Society has infected the federal judiciary to the point that tactically, the Department of Justice has no good choice in the Trump search warrant case. The Federalist Society is now actively engaging in petitioning the judges that they put on the Supreme Court.
The founder of the Federalist Society has filed a brief with the Supreme Court in support of the idea that state legislatures are empowered by the Constitution to change election laws and procedures in any way that they want without any interference from state judges and without any need to conform to that state`s own constitution.
[22:10:15]
This is the most dangerous election law argument that this Supreme Court will ever hear. Every Republican member of the Supreme Court has an affiliation or former membership with the Federalist Society. Republican politics has corrupted the Supreme Court and so to save it, the Democrats` only choice is to expand it, expand the Supreme Court to dilute the Trump poison on the court and to establish a majority of the court that supports the values of a majority of Americans.
There is still hope for sanity in state courts as we saw yesterday in New Mexico, where a state judge invoked the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution to ban a county commissioner from ever holding public office again.
After that commissioner was convicted of participating in the January 6th attack on the Capitol, the judge ordered the county commissioner removed from office immediately. The County Commissioner Couy Griffin who founded a group that he calls Cowboys for Trump told "The Associated Press" that he, quote, was notified of his removal from office by Otero County staff who prevented him from accessing his work computer and office space at a county building. Judge Francis Matthew said, quote, due to his disqualification under section 3 of the 14th Amendment, defendant is constitutionally ineligible and barred for life from serving as a senator or representative in Congress or elector of president and vice president or from holding any office, civil or military, under the United States or under any state.
One down and how many more to go.
Leading off our discussion tonight, Professor Laurence Tribe who has taught constitutional law at Harvard Law School for five decades.
Thank you very much for joining us tonight, Professor Tribe.
I know you have an interest in everything I just presented, so I`m going to do something I don`t usually do. Where would you like to begin?
LAURENCE TRIBE, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR: Well, I suppose I could begin with the very sound opinion by the judge in New Mexico who enforced the 14th Amendment in an opinion that said, it really didn`t matter whether this county commissioner was convicted of insurrection, he was actually convicted only of entering a federal building without permission. But this judge said that he`s bound by the rule of law and the law under the 14th Amendment is that if you take an oath and every official has to take an oath to the U.S. Constitution and are then involved in what amounts to an insurrection, whether you`ve been convicted under the federal insurrection act or not, you can`t serve.
And his opinion is filled with references to other insurrectionists, he passingly refers Donald Trump, but he hasn`t distinguished Trump just because he`s the former president from a mere county commissioner. He knows that all are equal before the law.
And I think that Judge Cannon could take a lesson from that because she quite explicitly says in her opinion doing for Donald Trump something that no judge has ever done in the history of the country and that is putting a stop to the prosecution because there are a few personal items along with things like national security secrets, she says, well, it`s because he`s Donald Trump. He`s special. He`s privileged. She says the quiet part out loud.
We don`t know whether they found her as the judge they could count on although it`s suspicious. We do know from her own opinion which everyone who is an expert in the law has trashed, everybody from Bill Barr on the right to people on the left, it`s not really a legal opinion but it`s an opinion that she says he deserves because guess what? His feelings might be hurt, his reputation would be smirched, besmirched just by the very fact that the government is searching through his stuff.
Well, a lot of people have reputations as I think you said yesterday, one of them might not be Donald Trump. But the idea that we should care more about his reputation than that of anybody else because he was the president, it`s very much like his idea that he is still the president. We get emails -- people like me get emails every day from president Donald Trump and he says, you`re one of my best supporters, I don`t know where he got that idea. But he`s still talking about himself as though he`s president.
So I don`t know where else you`d like me to go with this, Lawrence, but I think we have a picture of lawlessness by courts that are faithful to Trump and not the Constitution and then we have some state courts still who believe in the law.
O`DONNELL: Professor Tribe, I`m so glad to know that the Trump fundraising email list is so badly managed that both of us are on it, and but now -- let`s go to this dilemma that the Justice Department faces have to make a decision by Friday to appeal this -- what order that seems completely indefensible, but they`d be appealing it to a circuit court of appeals that is dominated by Trump judges.
And, I mean, you are -- have been an appeals council at the highest possible level United States Supreme Court. You know this kind of calculation. Do we bring this appeal if it creates the possibility of actually creating truly bad law and really locking it in, if you -- if this -- if this judge`s opinion is affirmed by a Trump-dominated circuit court of appeals and then by a Trump-dominated Supreme Court? What should the Justice Department do? Bill Barr says they should appeal.
TRIBE: Well, I`m not always sure that Bill Barr has the best interests of the federal Justice Department under Merrick Garland at stake. I don`t think they have to take an extreme position either way. They are supposed to name some possible special masters by Friday. They could suggest that the one part of her opinion that cannot stand and that she has to suspend is the part that puts a freeze on the investigation. She claims to believe that you can stop the criminal investigation based on the material that was seized, including the top secret material but you can continue protecting the national defense through the ODNI, the Office of Defense Intelligence, that you can do both at the same time.
But actually, as I think Andrew Weissmann and others who have been in this business know, I -- it`s impossible. It`s like, you know, it`s unwinding, the hopeless pretzel because it`s the same people who are doing the investigation. If you want to figure out who might have seen the top secret information about another country`s nuclear military capacity, you`ve got to know who was in with those boxes, who went through his desk, whose fingerprints are on these things, who might have been there. That`s simultaneously a criminal investigation and defense intelligence assessment.
So if she refuses to disentangle that knot, then they have a basis for an emergency appeal on that limited issue, and I think even a very right-wing court might recognize that the national defense is a bit beyond political party. She set herself in a footnote that she would want to go ahead and appoint this special master to find the attorney-client privilege material, even if her restraining order which by the way the president didn`t -- the former president didn`t even ask for, he didn`t -- he only asked for an injunction until a special master is appointed, but she went further. She gave him more than what he asked for.
So she`s made it clear that if that part is suspended, she`s almost inviting them to suspend it, then she will go ahead with her special master which is crazy and makes no sense but at least wouldn`t necessarily destroy the national defense, and the investigation could go on. So I think the Justice Department can craft a solution that doesn`t involve just tossing their fate into the pit of lions, in which six of the -- of the 11 judges of the -- of the 11th Circuit are Trump appointees. And by the way, the circuit justice for that circuit is, wait for it, Clarence Thomas.
That`s not a good look. They don`t necessarily in other words have to take Bill Barr`s advice, but it`s a close question.
O`DONNELL: Professor Laurence Tribe, I`m sure someone at the Justice Department was just taking notes for the last few minutes.
[22:20:02]
Thank you very much for leading off our discussion tonight. Really appreciate it.
TRIBE: Thank you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
And coming up, Andrew Weissmann and Neal Katyal will join us as we approach the Friday deadline for the Department of Justice to decide whether it will appeal that special master ruling by the Trump appointed judge in Florida. That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: The Justice Department facing a Friday deadline on the question of appealing in the Trump case.
[22:25:04]
What we need to hear from right now is an expert trial tactician and an expert appeals tactician and we just happen to have the best. To consider the most challenging dilemma the Justice Department has ever faced, we are joined now by two people who served in the Justice Department: Andrew Weissmann, former FBI general counsel and former chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of New York, he`s now professor of practice at NYU law school, and Neal Katyal, former acting U.S. solicitor general. They are both MSNBC legal analysts.
And Andrew Weissmann, let`s go first to you as the trial tactician. In this situation, is the Justice Department -- are the lawyers who are been working this case in the courtroom, are they consulting with appeals experts at the Justice Department about what to do next?
ANDREW WEISSMANN, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. There`s no way on God`s Green Earth that this is not happening, you know, at the Justice Department. From Merrick Garland to Lisa Monaco to the solicitor general, people who are steeped in appellate law are going to be weighing in on this, this decision.
And it`s a -- it`s a tough one. I`ll give you my bottom line as I agree with professor tribe, which is something you always have to say. But here, I actually do, but I would give one amendment which is I would appeal the injunction. I would also appeal the part of her decision that said that the special master will review documents for executive privilege.
And that means basically all documents with classification markings this is like a thief taking documents then saying judge I want them back. I mean, this is a complete farce and, you know, to have somebody like Laurence Tribe and Neal Katyal have to address this as if it`s a serious argument just tells you the depths that we`re in.
And just to be very serious for a moment, the notion that in the documents, there are state secrets involving nuclear capabilities means that there is present harm to national security, our allies and countries that want to quietly cooperate with us are looking at all of this and making decisions about whether they should continue to do so if they -- if we cannot keep secrets.
That is how we protect this country. It`s how we thwart terrorist attacks. It`s how we conduct important life-saving undercover operations.
Getting to the bottom of what happened with those documents and who had access could not be more important to our national security, and I think that has to weigh extremely heavily on Merrick Garland in deciding what to do here and what is the most efficacious way to get that part of the decision reversed quickly.
O`DONNELL: Neal Katyal, take us inside the Justice Department tonight, right now at this hour. They`ve just listened to Laurence Tribe. They`ve just listened to Andrew Weissmann. They`re going to listen to you.
If you were back in the room as solicitor general, as the reigning expert in the department on the appeals process going all the way up to the Supreme Court, what would you be saying?
NEAL KATYAL, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: So I`d use the process I always used when I was in the chair. I`d first ask for stuff in writing because I think that sharpens everyone`s thinking. So I`d want to hear from the criminal division, the national security division, all the line prosecutors about their views.
I then want to make sure that every possible option is being evaluated both the pros and cons. And I wouldn`t really, you know, I`d want to have a free flowing discussion with all voices heard. You wouldn`t want to squelch anyone on something of this matter.
Basically, I do think there are three options. We`ve talked a bit about one, not as much about the other two.
One we`ve talked about is appeal, and when I thought about appeals, I think a lot about the trajectory of the case. And here, the trajectory is really bad for Trump and very much in favor of appeal. Every day, every week, we learn a new fact about just how bad Trump`s behavior was. Now, it`s nuclear secrets. That also underscores just how bad the decision was by this judge in Florida.
So appointing a special master is one thing, but stopping a criminal investigation of this magnitude in its tracks because you think you as a federal judge that some documents might be privileged, that`s insane. That`s a bazooka when one needs mostly a scalpel. And if you`ve lost Bill Barr and Bill Barr saying appeal, god, you know? So that`s very strong.
[22:30:00]
Here is the downside, delay. Going to the Court of Appeals takes time. Trump will then go to the Supreme Court, take more time. And I think he will lose in these places but that is a long time, possibly even years.
The second option, seek clarification. Go to the judge, and the judge obviously botched things. You know, she said the current president, President Biden hasn`t waived executive privilege. She obviously didn`t read the last part of the government`s brief which said so. But the government`s solicitor general can have a solemn document from Biden saying I hereby waive executive privilege like that. He could then do what Andrew is saying, ask her to narrow the scope of the injunction, so that the investigation can proceed.
Downside, this judge doesn`t seem all that amenable to reconsideration or logic. So it may not go anywhere.
Last option, most intriguing. The Justice Department can move this case to Washington D.C. This judge wrote such a bad, such a sweeping opinion that she pled (ph) herself out of her own court because she granted remedies to the special master via the Presidential Records Act.
And she has a footnote on this. Footnote 16. But basically the Presidential Records Act says that you can only bring these cases in Washington D.C. and only Washington D.C. judges can oversee them.
So that maybe what the Justice Department, I think should do here. Get this case before judges who are experts on records and executive privilege and the like.
O`DONNELL: Quickly before we go. Andrew Weissmann, when you participated in these discussions these do we appeal, do we not appeal discussions in the Justice Department, did you ever have to seriously wonder about what would happen because of who the case would go to? And then who and which president appointed the appeals court judges that the case would go to?
WEISSMANN: You know, I was fortunate. Because I was really out of the Trump Department of Justice and his administration. I was dealing with special counsel. So, what we are seeing now is so extreme, I have never had to do that.
Yes, you might have that in the back of your mind. But I was given a hard time by judges no matter who appointed them. You know, judges tend to really -- you know, prior to this -- adhere to their oaths of office. And you know, we still have examples of that.
But I think it`s very hard when you have a decision by Judge Cannon, it actually, the people it hurts the most, I think, are the Republican appointed judges by Trump who are actually doing the right thing, particularly in the D.C. courts, where they have a lot of January 6 cases and by and large you`re seeing them do exactly what the Trump appointed judges did during the January 6th cases. And also the post-election cases.
So, Judge Cannon is really an extreme version. And unfortunately, I think it is a harbinger of what is to come.
O`DONNELL: Andrew Weissmann and Neal Katyal, thank you both very much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
KATYAL: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Coming up, Beto O`Rourke will join us next as children in Uvalde Texas return to school. Beto O`Rourke was there.
[22:33:13]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: As children returned to classrooms yesterday in Uvalde Texas for the first time after the mass murder there, one candidate for governor spoke directly to families in that community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETO O`ROURKE (D), TEXAS GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I asked some of these parents whether their kids were starting the first day of school (INAUDIBLE) children of Uvalde. Some told me that they were home schooling their kids, that they could not go back into the public schools given the fact that nothing meaningful has changed in these last 15 weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The Uvalde school board, the Uvalde city council and parents whose children were murdered at Robb Elementary School on May 24th have for weeks all made the same request of Republican Governor Greg Abbott, that he has so far ignored. That is to call a special session of the state legislature to raise the minimum age required to buy the weapon of war that was used by the mass murderer in Uvalde.
Joining us now is Beto O`Rourke. He is the Democratic candidate for governor in Texas. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
What else did you learn from the parents in Uvalde?
O`ROURKE: They are the most amazing people that I have ever met. Their determination (AUDIO GAP) that no other family has to suffer what they are experiencing right now.
They have testified before Congress. They have gone to the Capitol to protest, to ask their governor to listen to them. They have led marches and rallies in Uvalde. And they are reaching out to all of us across the state of Texas to make sure that we come through, that we take action while we can still take action to prevent the next massacre in the next school in Texas.
After Santa Fe High School in 2018, the massacre in El Paso, after Uvalde -- all told, five of the worst mass shootings have happened in this state under Greg Abbott`s watch over just the last five years.
[22:39:55]
O`ROURKE: It is going to continue to happen unless we have change. And those families, those parents, are leading the fight to change. And when we win it`s going to be because of them.
O`DONNELL: And of course, it wouldn`t just be children in Uvalde and parents in Uvalde who are worried about this. It would seem that, throughout Texas and throughout the country, but certainly a real intensity of feeling would be present in Texas and many other areas because what happened in Uvalde.
O`ROURKE: That is absolutely right. I mean the kids of this state, who don`t get a vote or a voice in this election, but through us are counting on us right now, to do the right thing while we still can.
Lawrence, my three kids who are sophomore, freshman, sixth grade in El Paso, they know that nothing has been done in the 15 weeks and one day since that massacre happened in Uvalde.
In fact, on the very day that it took place, as you know, Greg Abbott reported to the state that, at that time, he knew that 14 children had been killed and had a choice to either go to Uvalde and be with those grieving parents who are still trying to identify their kids and instead flew 300 miles on a private jet to a fund-raiser then shows up in Uvalde the next day and tells the parents there, it could have been worse.
For 15 weeks, those parents have waited for answers, for justice, for accountability, and for action. But there is another number that I want everyone to know. It is one day and two months until November 8th, when we decide the outcome of this election for governor. When we win we are going to prioritize the lives of those kids in the classrooms that the people of Uvalde -- we`re going to get justice and we`re going to get change to prevent massacres like this from happening going forward.
O`DONNELL: Let me ask you a question not as a candidate for governor but as you just identified yourself, a father of school age kids in Texas right now.
How do you feel? How do you feel about your kids going to school, walking in and out of those schools, spending the day in those schools in Texas?
O`ROURKE: You know, my kids, because their dad has been on the city council, served in Congress for six years, been campaigning all over the state of Texas, aren`t always a big fan of my profession and what I do and sometimes keep a little distance from it.
But on the day of the shooting in Uvalde, my 14 year old daughter Molly texted me and she said, dad, you have got to win. We have got to win.
There are so many kids across the state who feel the same way. And listen, not about me, not about the Democratic Party. They just know that we need change. Or they are likely to see the same fate as those kids in Uvalde and those kids in Santa Fe.
And as you know, Lawrence, children are dying across this state every day, so numbingly common, their names don`t make the front page of the newspaper. We don`t see their faces broadcast on the news.
Gun violence is the leading cause of death for children and teenagers in the state of Texas today. When Greg Abbott signed a permit-less carry bill that allows anyone, including violent criminals, to carry guns on our streets without a background check, or any vetting or training whatsoever, gun violence has spiked, predictably across the state of Texas. Those kids, my kids, every child in the state is counting on us. And we have got to come through.
And my optimism is in seeing the people of Texas rise up and meet this moment with all that they have got. We are going to win. We are going to come through for them.
And again we are inspired by the example that these parents in Uvalde are setting. We`re following their lead. That`s why I know that we are going to win. That`s why I know we`re going to deliver for these children.
O`DONNELL: Beto O`Rourke, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. Always appreciate it.
O`ROURKE: Thank you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
And coming up, a man who did countless, brilliant and moving photographic portraits of Barack and Michelle Obama was in the room today at the unveiling of their official White House portraits.
Former White House photographer Pete Souza will join us next.
[22:44:13]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Traditions like this matter, not just for those of us who hold these positions, but for everyone participating in and watching our democracy.
You see the people, they make their voices heard with their vote. We hold an inauguration to ensure a peaceful transition of power. Those of us lucky enough to serve, work, as Barack said, as hard as we can, for as long as we can, as long as the people choose to keep us here.
And once our time is up, we move on. And all that remains in this hallowed place are our good efforts and these portraits. So for me, this day is not just about what has happened.
It`s also about what could happen because a girl like me, she was never supposed to be up there next to Jacqueline Kennedy and Dolly Madison. She was never supposed to live in this house. She definitely wasn`t supposed to serve as first lady.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:49:56]
O`DONNELL: The Obamas` official White House portraits were unveiled at the White House today. The last presidential portrait unveiling ceremony took place when President Barack Obama hosted former President George W. Bush and former first lady Laura Bush for the unveiling of their official White House portraits.
On May 24th 1978, Democratic president Jimmy Carter held the first presidential portrait unveiling when he invited former Republican president Gerald Ford and former first lady Betty Ford for the unveiling of their official White House portraits in the East Room.
The tradition of hosting the most recent former president for a portrait unveiling was, of course, broken during the broken Trump presidency because the most uncouth man ever to occupy the White House refused to invite President Obama back to the White House.
Our next guest was in the room today at the White House with President Obama, as he was every day of the Obama presidency, creating his own photographic portraits of President Obama and first lady Michelle Obama.
Joining us now is Pete Souza, the official White House photographer for Barack Obama. He is the author of the upcoming book, "The West Wing And Beyond: What I saw inside the presidency" to be published later this month.
Pete Souza, welcome back to the program. What was it like to be in that room today? I watched every minute of it. It looked like a happy high school reunion.
PETE SOUZA, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL PHOTOGRAPHER: It was a family reunion. The White House is a family. And many of us haven`t seen each other since January 20th, 2017, on the day that we all went our separate ways. And we were gathered back together today. So it was just a joyous occasion, for sure.
O`DONNELL: And I have to get your reaction to the portrait of President Obama by Robert McCurdy, because it is photo realism in. It looks like it is a big blowup of a Pete Souza photograph. And so what was that one like for you?
SOUZA: I love it. I think it`s so different than any of the other presidential portraits that currently hang in the White House. I love it. It reminded me, not of a Pete Souza portrait, but of a Richard Avedon (ph) portrait with the white background.
And I was there after, you know, the ceremony, when they took the portrait from the East Room and they hung it in the grand foyer. So it was a thrill to see them actually place that on the wall in the grand foyer after the ceremony today.
O`DONNELL: And you, of course, have taken probably more photographs of Michelle Obama than anyone else ever has. What did you see in her portrait?
SOUZA: I saw Michelle Robinson. I saw Michelle Robinson Obama. I thought her remarks that you just played were so poignant. I was standing just to stage left. I was near tears when Michelle spoke, because I thought she really spoke from the heart. I think that that portrait shows who Michelle Obama is.
O`DONNELL: Yes. She really brought both the ceremony and the very concept of White House presidential portraits to a new relevance and a new importance that I had not considered before she spoke about it.
SOUZA: But also reminding us that, I think her words were something along the lines of a biracial kid from Hawaii and the daughter of a black water pump operator and stay at home mom are now hanging on the walls of the White House. And what that could mean to kids out there watching today. That it`s possible.
O`DONNELL: Pete Souza, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We are all jealous of you being in the room today, and that amazing opportunity to be in the room in the White House as much as you were, every day, during the Obama presidency.
Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
SOUZA: Thanks for having me on, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you. Tonight`s LAST WORD is next.
[22:54:24]
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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With Barack as our president, we got up every day full of hope for real, full of purpose, and excited about the possibility before us. There are few people I have ever known with more integrity, decency and moral courage than Barack Obama.
Mr. President, nothing could have prepared me better or more to become President of the United States than be at your side for eight years. I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
[22:59:46]
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Joe, it is now America`s good fortune to have you as president. Thanks to your decency and thanks to your strength -- maybe most of all, thanks to your faith in our democracy and the American people, the country is better off than when you took office. And we should all be deeply grateful for that. So thank you so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Presidents Obama and Biden get tonight`s LAST WORD.
"THE 11TH HOUR WITH STEPHANIE RUHLE" starts now.