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Biden on Trump TRANSCRIPT: 3/4/20, The Last Word w/ Lawrence O'Donnell

Guests: Steve Hildebrand, Jamil Smith, Amy Klobuchar, Eric Swalwell, Ezra Klein


Simply the best interview with Bernie Sanders that I have ever seen, and I just want to get your proposal to Joe Biden clear. You`re saying you are willing to travel to Vermont to interview Joe Biden?


RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: I will go to Vermont. I will go to Delaware. I will go to American Samoa. I will do where I will -- I will meet him where he needs to be met.

O`DONNELL: Rachel and Joe in America Samoa, we`ve got the episode ready to go. Thank you, Rachel, very much.

MADDOW: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Well, we have a special guest joining us tonight in a new role. She has appeared on this program many times. But this will be her first appearance this year, not as a presidential candidate.

Senator Amy Klobuchar will join us tonight. She`ll be here in the role she has always had as United States senator, of course, but this will be her first appearance as a supporter of the campaign of Joe Biden for president.

We have a new frontrunner and it`s the old front-runner, Joe Biden started off the presidential campaign last year as a strong front-runner. But shaky debate performances seemed to shake voter confidence in Joe Biden and his poll numbers fell. And then the falling poll numbers created their downward momentum as more voters seemed to lose confidence in Joe Biden`s ability to win.

All the while, Bernie Sanders performance in the campaign remained relentlessly consistent. After his heart attack when the Sanders campaign was alt its low point, Congresswoman Alexander Ocasio Cortez stepped in with an endorsement that revived the Sanders campaign, which achieved essentially a tie for first place in Iowa followed by big wins in New Hampshire and Nevada while Joe Biden was losing and losing badly in all of those states.

Then came out to be the most important endorsement in the campaign. Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina who took Joe Biden from three- time loser in this presidential campaign to huge winner in South Carolina. The South Carolina win super charged the Biden campaign so that just three days later, last night, Joe Biden decisively won 10 of the 14 states voting on Super Tuesday.

NBC News has not yet called the race in California as Rachel just mentioned. Bernie Sanders is currently in the lead with 56 percent of the vote counted.

In two out of the three states that Joe Biden clearly last night, Mike Bloomberg made the difference. If Bloomberg had dropped of the race before Super Tuesday and all of his votes went to Joe Biden, that would have produced what looks like a tie in Colorado.

And in Utah, the Bloomberg vote would have delivered the win clearly to Joe Biden.

And then today, the day after Mike Bloomberg appeared to block Joe Biden and Joe Biden victories in those states, this happened.


MIKE BLOOMBERG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`ve always believed that defeating Donald Trump starts by leaning behind the candidate with the best shot to do it. And after yesterday`s vote, it is clear that candidate is my friend and great American, Joe Biden.


O`DONNEL: Mike Bloomberg is out of the race, but his billions of dollars will remain in the fight to defeat Donald Trump in November. Donald Trump got impeached trying to prevent what Joe Biden did last night.


SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Do you think the president is rooting for Sanders?

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I think the one thing the president doesn`t want to do from the very beginning is face me, because I will beat him, period. Period. He has done everything in his power. He even risked his presidency because he doesn`t want to face me.


O`DONNELL: That is Joe Biden speaking with NBC`s Savannah Guthrie. You can see much more of that interview tomorrow morning on the "Today" show.

The next debate is scheduled for March 15th. It will be a two man vote if Senator Elizabeth Warren drops out of that race before that debate. Today, her campaign manager in an email to staff said, last night, we fell well short of viability goals and projections. And we are disappointed in the results. We`re still waiting for more results to come in to get a better sense of the final delegate math.

We are going to announce shortly that Elizabeth is taking -- is talking to the team to assess the path forward.

Today, in a press conference, Senator Sanders said he does not want the campaign to degenerate into personal attacks.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So the American people have got to understand that this is a conflict about ideas, about a record, about a vision for where we go forward. And I like Joe. Joe is a decent guy. I do not want this campaign to degenerate into a Trump-type epic where we`re attacking each other, where it`s personal attacks. That is the last thing this country wants.

Joe has his ideas, his record, his vision for the future. I have mine. And I look forward to a serious debate on the serious issues facing this country.


O`DONNELL: Leading off our discussion tonight, Steve Hildebrand, former deputy national campaign manager for Obama`s 2008 presidential campaign, Jamil Smith, senior writer for "Rolling Stone", and Ambassador Wendy Sherman, a former undersecretary of state in the Obama administration. She is an MSNBC global affairs contributor.

I want to listen to what Joe Biden said today to echo what we just heard from Bernie Sanders about trying to make sure that this campaign does not become about personal attacks. Let`s listen to that.


BIDEN: What we can`t do is let this turn into a campaign of negative attacks. The only thing that I can do is help Donald Trump and it doesn`t do anything to help any one in the candidates who are left on the campaign. So, we have to keep our eye on the ball, and the eye on the ball is to reclaim the soul of this country.


O`DONNELL: Wendy Sherman, to give Bernie Sanders credit, he was able to maintain a campaign last time with Hillary Clinton where there were no personal attacks. He was invited at certain points to launch personal attacks even invited in debates to do that, especially about the Hillary Clinton e-mails. He just refused to do it.

WENDY SHERMAN, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that both Senator Sanders and Vice President Biden have the right idea which is the American public is exhausted by Donald Trump, the world is exhausted by Donald Trump. And they really want to hear some conversation about the issues that people care about over their kitchen tables and they don`t want personal attacks. They want to solve problems that we`re all facing here in the United States.

And I think and I would suspect that you would agree, Lawrence, that the coronavirus is creating a dynamic in this race where people are looking for comfort and information and truth and decency and a way forward in such uncertainty that no one can quite explain to them.

And so, I think it`s more incumbent upon our candidates than ever to have that more than civil conversation to really go forward and to say to their supporters as Rachel asked of Senator Sanders this evening, make sure your supporters don`t put vitriol on social media, vitriol out in the public, don`t have protesters take down meetings and rallies. Let`s have that conversation that the American public is absolutely desperate for. They want decency in the wake of a president who is anything but that.

O`DONNELL: Steve, in this modern age of campaigning with social media, the way it is, is there any way for the campaign to control their millions of supporters and how emotional they might get on Twitter?

STEVE HILDEBRAND, FORMER DEPUTY NATIONAL CAMPAIGN MANAGER, 2008 OBAMA CAMPAIGN: Well, I think a lot of us will take cues from the candidates. If the candidates provide a civil discourse and as Wendy said, you know, talking more about the future than about the past, then I think a lot of people, a lot of their supporters are going to follow that.

You`re not going to control everybody. But I do think that what`s most important is what we hear from the candidates. If either of these candidates want to do the greatest service to themselves, they`re going to talk about the future more than they`re going to talk about the past. The negative attacks are going to be mostly about the past.

So, let`s talk about the future. Let`s have a great primary. Lawrence, this is far from over. You know that. There`s, what, 38 contests left to go? And we`re basically tied.

There`s -- you know, can you call Joe Biden a front-runner because he propelled last night in a pretty serious way. But last night, he really got to even. We`re waiting on the delegate count. But if he`s ahead, he`s not ahead by much.

This is really where Obama and Clinton were back in 2008 after Super Tuesday.

O`DONNELL: And, Steve, staying with that, what do you see going forward? Let`s assume it comes out? They`re projecting that Joe Biden will come up with more delegates at the end of this. But as you say, it`s going to be really close. What do you see happening from here to the end of the primary season with these two?

HILDEBRAND: You know, we don`t know the dynamics. None of us could have predicted what happened yesterday and really what happened in South Carolina. Going forward, this could be bouncing back and forth. That`s what happened in 2008. You know, Hillary would win one, Barack would win one, we go back and forth.

The path looked good for Obama. But that was a more predictable path. This is not predictable at all. Nobody could have predicted last night that Joe Biden was going to win Massachusetts or Minnesota or some of more progressive states. They couldn`t have predicted he was going to win Texas. And even the Texas victory, while it`s a great symbolic victory, he barely gets more delegates coming out of Texas.

You know, he got a lot more delegates coming out of North Carolina, Georgia not -- Georgia, Virginia, places like that than he did a big state like Texas. So, you got to watch these smaller states. That`s how Obama made it beyond Hillary was by really paying attention to the small states and adding up delegate victories.

O`DONNELL: Jamil, hour, Rachel asked Bernie Sanders about segments of support that he was counting on, and intending to build this time, build over 2016. And that hasn`t happened.

Let`s listen to their exchange, part of their exchange about the black vote.


MADDOW: Let`s talk about black voters specifically because it has been a persistent problem. You know it was a problem in 2016. It might have cost you the nomination then. It hasn`t gotten better.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, both. We`re running against somebody who has touted his relationship with Barack Obama for eight years. Obama is enormously popular in this country in general, and the African-American community. Running against Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton was enormously popular.

I don`t think if you look at the national polls, in fact, there were some polls recently that we were running ahead of Biden in the African-American community. So, it`s not that I`m not popular. Biden is running, you know, with his -- with his ties to Obama. And that`s working well.


O`DONNELL: Your reaction to that?

JAMIL SMITH, ROLLING STONE SENIOR WRITER: well, he is dating himself a little bit. I mean, there were a few states he got boat raced. I mean, Texas, 58 percent black vote went to Biden. Virginia, 60 percent. North Carolina, 62 percent. Alabama, 72 percent.

And Alabama is a state that, you know, there was anniversary of Bloody Sunday on March 1st. Instead of being -- he is the only presidential conditioned date that didn`t go. There were candidates that left the race that were there. And he didn`t go and instead he staged a public enemy concert in Los Angeles, you know, in a state that he was already doing strongly in.

And so, frankly, I think his campaign really has to recalibrate the approach to black voters. And instead of targeting maybe just younger black voters where they`re already strong, they really have to start talking about how they talk to older black voters who, yes, maybe they`re into Obama, yes. But, you know, they also have to figure out a way to be into Bernie Sanders.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what Joe Biden said today in defending against the Bernie Sanders charge that what is happening for Joe Biden is he`s just getting supported by the Democratic establishment as Bernie Sanders calls it.


GUTHRIE: He said that your victory is essentially the corporate establishment coming together. What do you think about that argument?

BIDEN: It`s ridiculous. It`s ridiculous. Bernie, you got beaten by overwhelming support I have in the African-American community, Bernie. You got beaten because of suburban women, Bernie. You got beaten because of middle class, hard-working class folks out there, Bernie.

I hope we can have a campaign on the issues, but if Bernie wants to say all this, it`s great by me. I let the facts speak for themselves.


O`DONNELL: Wendy Sherman, speaking as a member of that establishment, I`m sorry, but I think a former undersecretary of state in a Democratic administration, you don`t get more establishment than that. What`s your reaction to all of this establishment talk?

SHERMAN: Well, it`s interesting. I think we got a clue in Rachel`s victory with Senator Sanders when he said he didn`t ask Congressman Clyburn for his endorsement because frankly Congressman Clyburn and he don`t agree on the issues. And I think that`s very telling.

It is that the African-American community doesn`t want quite the revolution that Senator Sanders has in mind. And unless he`s going to listen to them and hear what they want and what they`re looking for and what I thought is one of the interesting things about South Carolina is there really wasn`t a generational divide between young African-Americans and older African Americans.

And just as Joe Biden has to reach more into the Latino community, there is no doubt that Bernie Sanders has to do work in the African-American community but I`m not sure he`s going to.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to Bernie Sanders` answer about that question of the Clyburn endorsement.


SANDERS: I know Jim Clyburn very well, and actually Jim and I work together, working with Obama to put $11 billion into community health centers which is one of the very important parts of the Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act. So, I know Jim, I work with him.

Look, it is no secret, Jim is a very nice guy. I like him and I respect him. His politics are not my politics. And I respect him.

But there was no way -- no way in God`s earth that he`s going to be endorsing me.


O`DONNELL: Jamil, I have to say, the idea that his politics are not my politics and you`re under the same party heading -- I mean, Beto O`Rourke`s politics are not Biden`s politics on all sorts of issues.

SMITH: Right.

O`DONNELL: You still make the phone call.

SMITH: Right. I mean, at the end of the day, is he going to vote for Joe Biden at the end of the day, because -- I mean, are Joe Biden`s politics his politics? I mean, that`s the question I have to ask because, you know, what kind of example is he setting for the people who are following his lead?

I mean, if the people`s -- if this person`s politics are not your politics, you just give up? You just don`t have that conversation? You don`t ask for that person that person`s endorsement? You don`t have that dialogue?

That to me is not how you do politics in the 21st century. That`s not how you do politics at all. You actually have the conversation. You actually -- you know, you say, hmm, I`m interested in having this conversation. If you don`t give me your endorsement, that`s fine. But to rule it out categorically, that seems to be a losing proposition.

O`DONNELL: Steve Hildebrand, it also gives you the air of a campaign and a campaigner who is basically running on his own, and in that sense doesn`t think it takes a political village to get this nomination. You can just run from this strong base that fully believes in you and try to expand the numbers of people who fully believe in you.

Is that a formula for getting this nomination?

HILDEBRAND: You know, there is millions of Americans who would love to be invited into Bernie Sanders camp. But that camp is a little bit closed, as you`re saying. And that`s a recipe for disaster.

You need every person, every vote, every volunteer, every contributor you can possibly get when you run for public office. You know, you look at some of the candidates who dropped out of this race, Cory Booker, his politics would be more aligned with Bernie Sanders probably than with Joe Biden. He`s not endorsed Bernie Sanders.

Kamala Harris, same thing. Julian Castro, same thing. You know, the so- called moderates lined up behind Joe Biden. But Bernie Sanders has not even coalesced the candidates running for president who are more aligned with his politics.

O`DONNELL: Steve Hildebrand, Jamil Smith, Wendy Sherman, thank you all for starting us out tonight. Really appreciate it.

And when we come back, she has appeared on this program more than any other presidential candidate during this campaign. Now all the candidates are always invited. But Senator Amy Klobuchar is the one that showed up the most. Amy Klobuchar will join us next, this time not as a presidential candidate, but as the person who Joe Biden says won Minnesota for him.



BIDEN: I was so proud yesterday being embraced by Amy Klobuchar. We won Minnesota because of Amy Klobuchar.


O`DONNELL: Bernie Sanders suffered a big reversal of fortune last night in Minnesota. Four years ago, Bernie Sanders won Minnesota with 61 percent of the vote. Last night, Bernie Sanders lost Minnesota with 30 percent of vote to Joe Biden`s 39 percent of the vote. In the last Minnesota poll before Super Tuesday, Joe Biden was polling at 8, yes, 8 percent.

And then Monday night in Texas, Amy Klobuchar stood beside Joe Biden on that stage and endorsed him.

We don`t have the tape. Sorry, Senator. We had the great video of you in that emotional and exciting and crowd recognizing endorsement Monday night. I wanted you to relive that moment for many reasons, Senator, including it was the happiest losing candidate I have ever seen on a stage Monday night in Texas.

What -- take us through that process of -- first of all, that decision, you know, after doing so well in New Hampshire, doing so well in that debate, coming down to the point where now Super Tuesday is looming. You`re through South Carolina. You`re staring at Super Tuesday and you make the most difficult decision about that campaign. What was that like?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): It wasn`t easy, but I know I was doing the right thing. As I said in Dallas, by the way, that was just joyful. The crowd, Vice President Biden, it was just -- you can`t think of a better way as I said to end my campaign and joining his.

And for me, it really started after we saw the South Carolina results. I started talking to my campaign manager Sunday morning in that church in Selma. I pretty much made the decision. And then I had to talk my husband into it who had just convinced a lobster fisherman in Maine to support me. And I said, well. you can get him to support Biden?

And then from there, we -- the next day, went to Dallas and got to spend some time with the vice president and Jill with our family. And it was just a positive thing because I decided for me that this really couldn`t just be the personal victory of winning my state which I knew I was going to do and then what? I couldn`t really see that path.

And I thought, what better way to use my power than to bring some votes to him from our state, and I thought I could pull it off in a day, I told him that. We did a TV ad, cut it that night, radio ad and then I did a bunch of interviews. I asked the people in my state who were going to vote for me and I said, vote for Joe. And we were able to decisively win the state.

O`DONNELL: And, Senator, you won a lot of stages with Joe Biden over the last several months, a lot of stages. And every time you were on a stage with him you were with him as an opponent. What was it like to be on that stage cheering for this guy?

KLOBUCHAR: You know, I had no problem at all. First of all, he and I didn`t really get into -- into it much in the debate stage because we agree on so many issues. Secondly, my whole message, Lawrence, was about building this big coalition with fired up Democratic base which he has shown that he can fire up as well as independents, moderate Republicans, and then bringing dignity and decency to the White House.

And from the very beginning, when I announced in the middle of that blizzard, I talked about the need to cross the divides in our politics. And it just felt so natural to say this is a guy that can do it, this is someone that people trust, that can literally put himself in the shoes of so many Americans out there, has the empathy for the people in this country, something that is completely lacking in the White House right now.

As for me, it was an easy transition. I will say our last debate had a moment when I was standing between him and Tom Steyer. If you remember, they were kind of going at it. And I was grabbing on to the podium because I was afraid I might get duped off my little platform that I stand on so that people can see me. And I thought to myself, well, at least Tom Steyer has deep pockets if I go down.

But it was -- for me, it was just no problem, because I had gotten along with the vice president in every debate.

O`DONNELL: I want to listen to something that Bernie Sanders said in the last hour discussing this with Rachel, kind of lamenting the now lack of diversity on what will be the next debate stage which might or might not have Elizabeth Warren and how we`ve now come down to the point where the two frontrunners are -- this is Bernie Sanders` words -- the old white guys. Let`s listen to this.


BIDEN: We got to continue the fight for diversity and the Democrats should be proud that it was -- it started off with a very, very diverse group of people, candidates, compared to the Republicans in general. And second of all, I kind of think that when we look at a candidate, you have to look at the totality of the candidate. Yes, I think we need more women in politics. I think we need more gay people in politics. I think we need more African- Americans in politics. But at the end of the day, we also have to look at what a candidate stands for.


O`DONNELL: Senator, when you started off, plenty of women on that stage, most of you senators. Did you think it would come to this? It would be down to at this point just one woman left standing as of tonight and maybe not even as of tomorrow night in this campaign?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, I didn`t want it to happen, Lawrence. because I wanted to be still standing, and I think everyone has that same -- same goal and same wish. And it is what it is, and you have to respect the process here.

You know, before, at the beginning, it was just 3 percent of people voting in the first four states. But now, you have nearly a third of America voting. That`s where they are. And I am so proud of the women in this race and what we accomplished and what we will accomplish. I don`t think anyone will count any of us out for any work that we`re doing and our jobs or anything else question do in the future.

I thought it was quite a strong showing by the women candidates. It just was what happened and where the voters were. Of course, Elizabeth is still in the race.

O`DONNELL: Did you have any discussion with Joe Biden about your future in what could be the Biden administration?

KLOBUCHAR: No. I really didn`t want to play that game. I wanted to just come in and endorse him. I have known him a long time. During my time we were actually in the Senate together before he became Vice President. I still remember once I gave a lonely floor speech. I was the only one in the chamber.

He had just gotten out of the Presidential Race with President Obama. I walked out of there and my phone rang. I thought oh, and it was him. He said, hey, I just watched that speech. It was really good. And I thought only my mom was watching it. He`s just a really good guy. And I`m just honored to support him.

O`DONNELL: Yes that, is the Joe Biden that everyone in the Senate knows including Bernie Sanders who keeps saying quite honestly and I believe him, that he likes Joe Biden and vice versa. I want to listen to part of Rachael`s interview with Bernie Sanders where they talked about helping elect Democrats to the Senate in this case possibly Steve Bullock. Let`s listen to this.


RACHAEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Steve Bullock is a very important Democratic Senate Nominee potentially in Montana. Can you help him get elected or do you have to keep your distance? I mean how do you --?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean he`ll make his own decisions. But of course I think we can help him. I mean I`ve heard this argument a whole lot of time I believe that in the General Election the way you beat Trump is to have the largest voter turnout in the history of the country. I believe that it will be very hard to beat him when you`re running an old fashioned type of campaign when you`re running the same old same old.


O`DONNELL: Senator, your reaction to that?

KLOBUCHAR: You know, first of all, I have appreciated all the people Bernie has brought in and what a role he can play in this race. It`s incredible. We`re not going to be able to win if we don`t all come together.

But let me give you some counter facts here. Look at Virginia where Joe Biden won. Look at the numbers there. That was a higher voter turnout than past primaries. When you look across a country, we actually had a lot of people turning out and a lot of people turning out were voting for Vice President Biden or maybe Mr. Bloomberg who is now endorsed Vice President Biden or maybe even some residuals that were supporting Pete and me from before we got out that already had cast their ballots or were still doing it.

So I think what you saw was actually quite a surge of people voting for other candidates that weren`t Bernie. I mean, he had I don`t want to discount that he has a chunk of votes. That`s very important. So I think that`s the counter evidence right there exhibit A.

The second thing is our base is so fired up. We`ve seen it time and time again from the day after the inauguration when millions of people peacefully marched across this country to thousands of women signing up to run to 2018 when Nancy Pelosi became Speaker of the House because we flipped a bunch of seats in hard, hard districts that used to be held by Republicans in places like Iowa and Orange County.

It was true all over the country. So when you talk to those candidates, the vast majority of them want someone in charge of our ticket that shares our views, that wants to see us building on the Affordable Care Act and not blowing it up, that wants to see us working toward more affordable college in a smart way.

That doesn`t want to spend $60 trillion worth of programs which is three times the U.S. economy which is what Senator Sanders plans amount to. And Bernie and I are friends and we`ve had this same argument. I`m just giving on the debate stage several times. But I think that`s why you saw this huge voter turnout.

O`DONNELL: Senator Amy Klobuchar, I want to thank you very much for joining us as often as you did while you were a Presidential Candidate. I`m thanking you on behalf of this audience who all want to know what the Presidential Candidates are thinking what they`re proposing? What they want to do in government? What they want to do if they become President?

And you`re willingness to continually describe what you`re trying to achieve to this audience is greatly appreciated. We really appreciate you joining us tonight and hope you will continue to.

KLOBUCHAR: Wow. It`s great. And it`s great to be home in Minnesota. I woke up this morning and literally thought, asked myself, what hotel room am I in where all this light is coming in? And I realized it was my own house. So there you go.

O`DONNELL: Senator Amy Klobuchar, thank you very much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: And when we come back, another Former Presidential Candidate, Congressman Eric Swalwell, he was one of the first to make that hard decision to drop out of this race. He will join us next. We`ll see if he`s ready to make an endorsement.


O`DONNELL: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has the seemingly impossible job of keeping all Democrats in the House of Representatives happy with her leadership including House members like Alexander Ocasio-Cortez who has endorsed Bernie Sanders, Ayanna Pressley who has endorsed Elizabeth Warren and Jim Clyburn who has endorsed Joe Biden.

With that in mind, here is what Speaker Pelosi said today when she was asked about Joe Biden`s big wins last night.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you make of Joe Biden`s victory last night? He did really well.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Well, I would love everyone to vote and have their say in all this and we`ll see how it goes.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California. He is the member of the House Judiciary and House Intelligent Committees. Congressman Swalwell, thank you very much for joining us tonight and I have on my desk a breaking news button here that I can press if you are ready to announce your endorsement in the Presidential Campaign. We can just get that breaking news banner right across the bottom of the screen. Have you made a decision?

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): I`ve did enclose Lawrence and you are frankly I have just had an election last night where I had six opponents in California and have been focused on that. And now I look forward to making that decision soon. But I will say I am a single issue endorser. I just want to beat Donald Trump.

And I think what Speaker Pelosi was also saying was when it comes to November, we are for addition, and they`re for subtraction. When it comes to healthcare, when it comes to climate, we`re for living at sea level. They`re for living under water. When it comes to economy, we`re for all floors benefitting they`re for only the top floor.

And so I think you know we`re going to support anyone who is the nominee. And I`m looking forward to making that decision very soon.

O`DONNELL: So like all members of Congress in California, you`re on the primary ballot last night. You had to get past that. Can you talk for a moment to California voters about what happened with the kinds of delays we saw last night in some places that we hadn`t seen before? The long lines--

SWALWELL: It shouldn`t be that hard, Lawrence. It shouldn`t than hard. And first I have to say we have a Secretary of State Alex Padilla who is dramatically expanded access to the polls. But I do think we need to look at what we can do to invest and support counties so that we have enough people working at the polls and also able to process absentee ballots.

But we don`t want to deter people in November from showing up because they see these long lines. It shouldn`t be a long line to demonstrate, you know, civic participation. That`s the wrong image. And so I hope we can get that right before November.

O`DONNELL: And the issue with the lines is complex here in California. How long now do you think it will take for us to have what we can call a real and final result in the Presidential voting in California?

SWALWELL: Oh, I think it`s probably going to be two to three weeks. It will be certified I think in about a movement but as you remember during the mid terms, many of the races were not called for a couple weeks. And it looks like it tightens more and more between Vice President Biden and Senator Sanders.

You know, I think that is going to be all the more reason they`re going to want to make sure they get it right. So many delegates are at stake. It could be a two person race and those delegates will be critical to those 1,991 votes that you need.

O`DONNELL: You represent one of the states where we have now had a death from the Coronavirus. I want to listen to what Bernie Sanders said about Coronavirus to Rachel Maddow in the last hour.


SANDERS: You should not be having somebody like a Vice President Pence leading the task force somebody who I think was, you know, to say - to be gentle to him, to be kind, is not a great advocate for science in general. I have very little confidence in the Trump Administration to do anything that is right or decent or certainly based on science.

Remember these are the guys who think climate change is a hoax. Congress has going to have to play a much more aggressive role the difficult he is he has contempt for Congress and Congress would literally pass legislation which he will not necessarily implement.


O`DONNELL: Congressman Swalwell, what is your view of how the administration is handling this?

SWALWELL: We want them to succeed. Their success is all of our success. Today we were briefed by Vice President Pence. Speaker Pelosi invited him in. And I thought it was a pretty spirited exchange of our members asking pointed questions.

I`ll tell you, we have the team that President has chosen. In Congress we can fund this crisis but the President has picked his team. I think we`re all committed to trying to work with the Vice President.

And Lawrence, I`ll just say, frankly, as the Vice President laid out what we have to do, put his politics aside it was refreshing to see somebody from the White House actually understand how government works? I mean, he`s talking about different agencies working with Governors working with the Counties. And I just could never imagine closing my eyes and seeing Donald Trump do it.

So yes, I think there are more qualified people than Vice President Pence. But thank God Donald Trump is nowhere near this crisis.

O`DONNELL: Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you very much for joining us tonight, we really appreciate it.

SWALWELL: My pleasure.

O`DONNELL: And when we come back, we`re going have more of my interview with Joe Biden. This was a part we couldn`t use the other night. We didn`t have time for it. This is the part of the interview where he discusses running against Bernie Sanders. That`s next.


O`DONNELL: I interviewed Joe Biden the day before his big Super Tuesday victory. Here is part of that interview that we didn`t have time to show on Monday night. Joe Biden drawing contrasts with Bernie Sanders.


O`DONNELL: President Trump tweeted "This is the real beginning of the Democrats taking Bernie out of play." The President seems very protective of Bernie Sanders in a way I don`t think we should take seriously. But is this the President`s suggesting that now you, Pete Buttigieg are somehow part of a movement that is simply about stopping Bernie?

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`m in part of movement elect Biden. That`s the movement I`m invested in not take out Bernie. And there`s going to be, as I said Lawrence, a clear choice people are going to have to make in the Democratic Party. You looking for a revolution for somebody who has not gotten a whole lot done, he`s a good guy but hadn`t gotten a whole lot done in the United States Congress.

Look, you got - the next President of the United States, he or she is going to inherit a world of disarray and a country that is divided. They`re going to have to not only be able to beat Trump they`re going to have to be able to win back the Senate and keep the House of Representatives.

There`s been a plethora of endorsements I haven`t even asked for. Scores and scores of national endorsements are coming forward. Congress persons - and by the way all the people that are coming forward most rapidly are people who in states and districts that are purple and are worried they`re going to lose if Bernie`s at top of the ticket that`s not me. That`s them.

So the question is who is best positioned, number one, to win - help win back the Senate and keep the House of Representatives because - that`s number one. Number two, who is going to be in the best position once elected to be able to actually get things done in the United States Senate and the House of Representatives?

And I`m going to say something presumptuous. Even back in the days of Pat Moynihan I had a pretty darn good record of getting things done bipartisan. Getting things done. I know I`m told by the opponents and the good folks running for the nomination, say well, you know, Joe used to be able to do that, he got a lot done, he got did the - he got the votes for the Recovery Act, which is $900 billion, he ran that, but that`s the past, he doesn`t know this new Republican Party.

Lawrence, I know them better than anybody. I`ve been the object of their affection for a while now. And I know how to beat them.

O`DONNELL: Former Vice President Joe Biden, thank you very much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

BIDEN: I hope you have me back. Thank you, Lawrence. I appreciate it.


O`DONNELL: Up next, the always thoughtful and insightful Ezra Klein will join us. He wrote a piece today about the difference between the Sanders Campaign strategy and the Biden Campaign strategy and why one now seems to be working better than the other? Ezra Klein is next.


O`DONNELL: Here is Bernie Sanders giving the short outline of his campaign strategy tonight with Rachel.


SANDERS: The challenge is how do you expand the base? And if anybody thinks you can do it through the same old same old type of politics, I would respectfully disagree. You need energy. You`re going to need excitement. And I think that is the campaign that we have.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Ezra Klein, Editor At-Large and Co-Founder of Vox Media. He is the Host of the Podcast "The Ezra Klein Show." He`s also the Author of the new book "Why We`re Polarized." Ezra, you wrote today about the Sanders Campaign strategy versus the Biden Campaign strategy. What are the essentials of each one?

EZRA KLEIN, CO-FOUNDER, VOX MEDIA: So there`s a key difference between them, which is simply that Bernie Sanders has been running to lead a political revolution, a revolution that changes the nature of politics and in particular changes the nature of the Democratic Party itself. He runs against the Democratic Party establishment towards a new more social Democratic Party, socialist Democratic Party.

Joe Biden wants to lead the Democratic Party as it exists right now. And that has turned at this point into an advantage for him. One of the really key things that happened over the past week or two in the primary, after Iowa and New Hampshire Sanders really was in the lead. You looked at the polling, looked at the betting markets.

But it was really interesting what didn`t happen. There were no big endorsements. You didn`t see establishment figures, even liberal ones like Sherrod Brown or Tammy Baldwin coming around his campaign.

And then after South Carolina when Biden got that big Jim Clyburn endorsement that helped catapult him to a huge win there and then he got the Amy Klobuchar endorsement, Pete Buttigieg, Harry Reid, Beto O`Rourke, he began seeing that party decides dynamic, and that really comes from Joe Biden doing that inside work, inside the Democratic Party to try to lead it and sort of tell the other players within it that he`s going to be somebody they can count on.

And as Democrats who are the ones who primarily vote in Democratic Primaries looked at the people they trusted that signal ended up being really important to them. So the argument I make in this piece is if Bernie Sanders wants to become the leader of the Democratic Party he`s got to try harder to lead the Democratic Party, not just take it over.

O`DONNELL: I want to listen to more of Bernie Sanders talking about him taking on not just the corporate establishment but the political establishment. Let`s listen to this.


SANDERS: You`re talking to a candidate uniquely who`s taken on the entire corporate establishment. You`re talking to a candidate who`s taking on the political establishment. Mr. Bloomberg comes on board Biden other candidates. And he will solidify his support with the political leadership. We`re taking that on. We`re running a grassroots campaign.


O`DONNELL: So Ezra, that taking on the political establishment comes on the same day that the campaign releases an ad that is all about Barack Obama and the positive things he has said about Bernie Sanders over the years.

KLEIN: That was really striking. That was I thought the kind of ad that the Bernie Sanders Campaign should have been making before and the kind of work they should have been putting in before, not that they`re going to get Barack Obama`s endorsement before they wrap up the nomination, but to show that they actually are players in the Democratic Party.

Look, one of the funny things about Bernie Sanders and one of the tensions in his campaign and his career more broadly is that he`s both inside and outside the system. On the one hand he`s a Democratic Socialist, an Independent Democratic Socialist from Vermont. He was not officially a Democrat until a few years ago. He has run against the Democratic establishment.

He`s often been very cutting against them. In an interview he did with me a couple years ago he talked about how yes, Democrats are better than Republicans, 10, 25, 100 times better he said but are they the party of working people? No, he said they`re not really the party of working people and he wanted to make them that way.

On the other hand he`s actually has been a pretty reliable Democratic vote he`s there when the Democrats need him but he`s not really been playing into that part of his own history in the campaign. I think that`s ultimately began to hurt him because he does need to win over actual rank- and-file Democrats.

O`DONNELL: Yes, he does have a very practical record in governing which he does not discuss in this campaign. Erza Klein, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it.

KLEIN: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: That is tonight`s LAST WORD. "THE 11TH HOUR" with Brian Williams starts now.

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