The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell, Transcript 12/22/2016

Guests: Wendy Sherman, Jonathan Alter, Michael Moore

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL Date: December 22, 2016 Guest: Wendy Sherman, Jonathan Alter, Michael Moore

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: I want to thank the Trump transition, I want to thank Kellyanne Conway personally for agreeing to come in here and talk to me.

I cannot get a lot of Republicans and Republican even political operatives, let alone people involved in high-level Republican politics to come have a conversation with me.

I know everybody wants blood on the floor. A lot of what I want is to be able to hash things out in person in a way that is civic, civil and confrontational when it needs to be without being mean.

And I appreciate Kellyanne Conway being willing to have that conversation with me. Thank you.

That does it for us tonight, now, it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Rachel, mission accomplished. A civil exchange of ideas.

MADDOW: Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

O`DONNELL: Great to watch, thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: Take care.

O`DONNELL: Yes, Michael Moore will join us tonight with his five-point plan for the new year.

But first, Donald Trump tweeted that he wants us to have more nuclear weapons, at least that`s what we all thought he said.

But Kellyanne Conway just told Rachel, she doesn`t know what he meant.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald Trump today signaled he wants more nukes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Foreign policy by tweet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just hours after Vladimir Putin made up his own vow to beef up Russia`s nuclear readiness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every word matters. Strength in the nuclear arsenal, fine, expand it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we going to have another nuclear arms race? I mean, that`s what it sounds like.

RONALD REAGAN, LATE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Would it not be better to do away with them entirely?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All during the campaign, Donald Trump has dealt with nuclear weapons very loosely and very cavalierly.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: They`re hearing, a guy running for president of the United States talk of maybe using nuclear weapons.

Nobody wants to hear that about --


MATTHEWS: An American president --

TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them?

DAVID FRUM, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Unpredictability on the part of the country is powerful to the United States, it`s super dangerous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where does drain the swamp stack up on things to adhere to on the Trump camp?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drain the swamp is probably somewhere down the bottom.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Newt Gingrich admitting that he was wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I made a big move --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kind of like a hostage tape, right?

CONAN O`BRIEN, COMEDIAN & TELEVISION HOST: Donald Trump is now going around saying Merry Christmas instead of happy holidays.

TRUMP: A very Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas --


O`BRIEN: Trump says he`s a fan of Jesus, because I like guys who inherit their dad`s business and then think they`re God.


O`DONNELL: The United States is Israel`s biggest protector in the world. And Israel needs protecting since it is surrounded by neighbors, many of whom would be happy to see the people of Israel wiped out.

The United States is Israel`s biggest and often only protector at the United Nations, vetoing resolutions condemning Israel is something our U.N. ambassadors do routinely.

But the United States always has its own issues with Israel. And American presidents have always been trying to find ways to coax or pressure Israel into peace negotiations with Palestinians.

And as frustrated as American presidents can get in their own private negotiations with Israel, whenever anyone else criticizes Israel, the American government`s response is usually that of a family member that can be tensions within that family.

But when someone from outside the family criticizes, well, then the United States is always there to defend Israel.

And so it was in 2011, when President Obama`s ambassador to the U.N. vetoed a resolution condemning the construction and expansion of Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territory.

Egypt recently introduced another version of that resolution which was scheduled to come to a vote at the United Nations today at 3:00 p.m. And this time, the United States had not taken a public position on that resolution.

This was clearly a message to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that the United States was frustrated with his refusal to reconsider any aspect of his position on building and expanding settlements.

The Obama administration might have hoped that Netanyahu would reach out to President Obama to ask to formally request that the United States veto that resolution.

And perhaps in that discussion offer something to President Obama in exchange. Instead, the "New York Times" reports that Netanyahu reached out to Donald Trump.

At 3:28 a.m. in Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu tweeted this: "the U.S. should veto the anti-Israel resolution at the U.N. Security Council on Thursday."

Then at 8:37 a.m. New York Time, Donald Trump tweeted "the resolution being considered at the United Nations Security Council regarding Israel should be vetoed."

Nbc News reports that a senior Israeli official confirms that the Israeli government asked Donald Trump to weigh in on the United Nations vote.

By mid-morning, the vote had been postponed. The "New York Times" quotes an unnamed source saying the Israelis leaned on the Egyptians this morning to postpone the vote, and the Egyptians basically caved.

There is no indication of when the vote will be rescheduled if at all. This was not Donald Trump`s only entry into American foreign policy today.

After the U.N. vote was postponed, Donald Trump tweeted: "the United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes."

The Trump tweet came hours after Vladimir Putin said, "we need to enhance the combat capability of strategic nuclear forces, primarily by strengthening missile complexes that will be guaranteed to penetrate existing and future missile defense systems."

Tonight, Kellyanne Conway was incapable of clarifying whether Donald Trump intends to increase our production of nuclear weapons. Something no president has done since President George H.W. Bush.


MADDOW: We are trying to lead the way in reducing the number of nuclear weapons in the world.

He`s saying we`re going to expand our nuclear capability.


MADDOW: So, that --

CONWAY: Saying that.

MADDOW: He did -- he did -- he did literally --

CONWAY: Well --

MADDOW: Say we need to expand our nuclear capability --

CONWAY: And he may expand it. What he is saying is -- what he`s saying is, we need to expand our nuclear capability.

Really our nuclear readiness, or our capability to be ready for those who also have nuclear weapons.

I mean, this is what happens. When you say that terrorism, particularly ISIS, radical Islamic terrorists are being contained as the JV team.

We don`t have to worry about them anymore, and then people are being killed in Nice, in Berlin this week.

Certainly in Orlando at the night club in May. In San Bernardino a year ago, in Paris, in Brussels, it doesn`t ring true to anybody that they`re not advancing.

It doesn`t ring true to anybody.

MADDOW: What does that have to do with nuclear weapons?

CONWAY: It`s -- I`m going to give you the analogy. That just saying it doesn`t make it true.

In other words, us saying they`re contained and then they`re attacking proves that -- proves to everybody who feels unsafe in a world which are, in particular in the case of ISIS are advancing.

That they`re still -- they`re still willing to do their harm. So, us, he`s trying to in his -- I think in his quest to keep us safe and secure.

He`s putting the world on notice that he will do what he thinks he needs to do to keep us safe and secure.


O`DONNELL: You can listen to all of that interview, and you`re never going to find a clarification, which Rachel repeatedly sought on what exactly did Donald Trump mean to say about nuclear weapons today.

Joining us now, Ambassador Wendy Sherman; former U.S. Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs. Also with us, Jonathan Alter; Msnbc political analyst and columnist for "The Daily Beast".

Ambassador Sherman, your reaction first of all to the nuclear weapons comment by Donald Trump today. What you think it might mean, and how you think it will be interpreted in the world.

WENDY SHERMAN, FORMER UNITED STATES UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: Well, I think Donald -- what we`ve really heard, Lawrence, is a great deal of concern today.

Because in 140 words, Donald Trump is resetting American nuclear policy in a way that risks not only an escalation with Russia, but an escalation with the world.

And all of the confusion we had during the campaign about whether he was really encouraging Japan and South Korea to get more nuclear weapons or whether he believed that nuclear weapons were dangerous and it was important to build them down.

Yes, have them as a deterrent while everyone else does of course. But to modernize them of course, but not to expand them, but to rather build them down.

If that change is taking place, it is an earthquake in the danger and the national security interests of our country. So, I`m quite concerned about what he said. He did use the word "expand".

And if he didn`t know what he was saying, then that is a serious concern as well. One can`t do national security policy in 140 words.

O`DONNELL: Jonathan Alter, Rachel Maddow tried mightily and repeatedly to get a clarification from Kellyanne Conway --


O`DONNELL: About what Donald Trump meant in his tweet about nuclear weapons today.

We don`t know anymore after Rachel`s attempt. Kellyanne Conway never found -- never found the words of clarification, she doesn`t seem to know what he meant.

ALTER: Well, I wouldn`t hazard a guess as to what he meant. It not only is it dangerous to use 140 words, but in the case of a tweet, it`s 140 characters.

SHERMAN: Oh, sorry --

ALTER: And know --


O`DONNELL: Right --

ALTER: I mean --


SHERMAN: Characters --

ALTER: The idea of dealing with extraordinary complex and explosive issues in this fashion is extraordinarily irresponsible.

Now, here`s my guess as to what`s going on. The United States as Ambassador Sherman knows much better than I do, is engaged in a very expensive modernization of our nuclear forces.

Donald Trump is ignorant on all these issues. He showed that during the campaign when he wasn`t familiar with the fact that our deterrent is based on a triad.

Land-based, sea-based and bomber-based nuclear deterrent. He wasn`t familiar with the concept of a triad.

And it may well be that he`s not familiar with the fact that we have a -- what would -- will eventually be a trillion-dollar modernization of our nuclear deterrent that President Obama launched.

So, it may be that he actually doesn`t want to expand, he just wants to modernize, but neither he nor Kellyanne were familiar enough with the details to clarify.

O`DONNELL: Ambassador Sherman, as someone who was so deeply involved in the negotiations with Iran on stopping their nuclear program, what would you like to say to Donald Trump if he -- if he gave you some time --


O`DONNELL: About the state of nuclear weapons in the world. The American government`s posture toward them worldwide and the -- and the consistent American governing policy of trying to contain nuclear weapons worldwide.

And what that means in terms of the president`s public pronouncements on the subject?

SHERMAN: Oh, I think you make a very good point, first of all, thank you, Jonathan, for the correction on characters rather than --

O`DONNELL: Sure --

SHERMAN: Words, quite --

ALTER: Yes --

SHERMAN: Different, even 140 words might not do it either --

ALTER: Yes, that`s right.

SHERMAN: But I think that what I would probably say to the president-elect is this is very serious.

This is something that from Ronald Reagan on forward, on a bipartisan basis, presidents have understood that nuclear weapons are not something that should be heralded.

They should be something that are very carefully thought about. That we are talking about weapons that are much more powerful than what was dropped at the end of World War II on Hiroshima and Nagasaki many times more.

And it would be catastrophic for the world, it would be catastrophic for the United States.

So, nuclear war is not something that one either, you know, sort of sluffs off or uses as an unpredictable tool in national security. We have them as a deterrent when there are others in the world that have them.

But in the new star treaty with Russia, a country with whom we have difficult and complicated relationships, we all agreed to build down our nuclear stockpiles. Because we understood that this would ultimately make the world safer.

And I give President Obama a lot of credit for setting out an objective which he said he wouldn`t probably see in his lifetime.

And I certainly won`t see in mine. But this is very serious business, and as Jonathan said, one shouldn`t just pop off about this.

This should be very thoughtfully put forward in a policy that is fulsome so you know where you`re headed and you know what the stakes are.

O`DONNELL: Jonathan Alter, in a -- in a -- in a normal presidency, should the president say something in the morning that has worldwide import and the capacity to be misunderstood that presidency would have clarified it fairly quickly, within a matter of hours.

But certainly, with Kellyanne Conway scheduled to do a major interview tonight with --

ALTER: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Rachel Maddow, they had to know, and Kellyanne Conway had to know that Rachel Maddow is our resident expert on this subject.

ALTER: That`s right --

O`DONNELL: It`s the most --

ALTER: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Important thing in the news today. It`s the first thing Rachel Maddow is going to ask you about, what did Donald Trump mean on this nuclear weapons tweet?

And Kellyanne Conway shows up with nothing. She has nothing clarifying to say about it.

This is -- this -- that, in itself, is kind of an unprecedented communications session --

ALTER: Yes --

O`DONNELL: With the new administration.

ALTER: Very much. And, you know, as you said, they will be doing this every day because when the United States sneezes, the world catches a cold.

It`s been that way since World War II. It will continue to be that way even though other nations are now becoming major figures on the world stage.

We don`t dominate in quite the way that we used to. We don`t get our way in the way that we used to, which is something I think will prove very frustrating for President Trump.

And when he gets frustrated, we don`t know how he reacts, but we`ve been given some idea. And so, that then you get an escalation of tweets and taunts. This is how wars start, Lawrence.

Is through -- if you look at the origins of World War I, for instance, there are a series of miscommunications, taunts, braggadocio, Kaiser Wilhelm, you know, insulting his cousins on another throne elsewhere in Europe.

You know, this is dangerous. And I think anybody who has studied diplomacy from any political persuasion will agree this is not any way to run the foreign policy of the United States. He`s not in charge yet, but he will be in a month.

O`DONNELL: Ambassador Sherman, I want to get your reaction to the vote at the U.N. today that was postponed.

A couple of things. First of all, Prime Minister Netanyahu reaching out, apparently reaching out directly to Donald Trump, asking him to make that statement today that he made early this morning on Twitter.

That also, an unprecedented moment in the transition from one presidency to another.

SHERMAN: Right, we have had incidents in our history, both with Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon.

Ronald Reagan around an Iran negotiation and our hostages in Iran, and Richard Nixon around the peace talks, ending the Vietnam war.

Where during the election, there were certainly stories about potential, behind-the-scenes, secret negotiations to affect the outcome of the election.

But this is the first time that I can think of where someone who is not the authorized leader of this country to make national security and foreign policy.

In fact, people have said to me today it crosses the line of the Logan Act, which does not -- it`s federal law.

Does not permit unauthorized individuals to negotiate on behalf of the U.S. government with a foreign government around an issue like this.

So, whether the Logan Act applies here or not, it is highly unusual. We have one president at a time.

And Donald Trump is really playing with fire, because, you know, Lawrence, we`re not talking about just Donald Trump and Barack Obama.

We`re talking about the institution of the presidency of the United States. And I dare say that when the moment comes when Donald Trump isn`t going to be president any longer, he will want to make sure that he gets to be president until the very last moment.

And would be furious to have the person who is going to follow him make decisions or try to affect the outcomes of those decisions.

O`DONNELL: But Jonathan, this was Netanyahu apparently reaching out directly to Trump.

ALTER: Yes, well, Netanyahu, we know, for some time has essentially been a Republican, in American political terms, that was irresponsible of Netanyahu.

I think he thinks he`s getting somebody who will rubberstamp anything that he wants in the White House.

And he will. He will get that. Israel will be determining U.S. foreign policy in the region, which is not the way it should be. Not that we shouldn`t be Israel`s strongest friend and ally in that part of the world.

But if we lose any ability to broker between the various states in the Middle East, that will not help the national security interests of the United States.

And that`s what we`re moving toward. On top of which, he`s nominated as ambassador to Israel, his bankruptcy lawyer who accused other Jews, American Jews who don`t agree with him on everything.

Who favor a two-state solution of being "worse than Kapos". The Kapos were the Jews who collaborated with the Nazis in the concentration camps.

So, Mr. Freedman(ph) has no business being our envoy to Israel. And I hope that, that nomination is defeated.

I say that as a citizen, as a Jew, it would just be outrageous if he became our representative.

Somebody who accuses other Jews of being Nazis.

O`DONNELL: Jonathan Alter, thank you very much for being with us, and Ambassador Wendy Sherman, thank you for joining us tonight, really appreciate it.

ALTER: Thanks, Lawrence --

SHERMAN: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Thank you. Coming up, some Trump voters could find out that some Trump policies could hurt them.

Apparently, they weren`t really listening or they weren`t believing what Donald Trump said when he ran.

Michael Moore will join us with that. And also, Michael Moore`s five things that he wants you to do in the new year.


O`DONNELL: According to the "Associated Press", it has now been 147 days since Donald Trump held his last news conference.

That news conference was back on July 27th. Donald Trump of course famously canceled his only planned press conference since then.

It was scheduled for last week, and that`s when he was supposed to reveal his plan for handling his businesses or changing them in such a way that he would avoid any conflict of interest as president.

He of course, canceled that one, so we know nothing about that. Up next, Michael Moore joins us.



TRUMP: We will repeal the disaster known as Obamacare, and create new healthcare, all sorts of reforms that work for you and your family.

And we are going to be doing it properly. And we will not spend $5 billion for a website, OK? Remember that.


O`DONNELL: That was Donald Trump in Florida last week. A record 6.4 million people have signed up for health insurance on the Affordable Care Act`s federal exchange for 2017.

And the state with the highest number of enrollees is Florida. The place where Donald Trump was speaking with 1.3 million. The next highest totals come from Texas, North Carolina, Georgia and Pennsylvania.

Those are all states that Donald Trump won in the presidential election. Trump voters now seem to be realizing that electing Donald Trump means that he will try to take away the healthcare that some of them obtained through the Affordable Care Act.

One Trump voter in Kentucky recently said this: "I guess I thought that, you know, he would not do this. He would not take health insurance away, knowing it would affect so many people`s lives.

I mean, what are you to do then if you cannot pay for insurance?" Joining us now, Michael Moore, Academy award-winning documentary filmmaker.

His latest film is "Michael Moore in Trump Land". And Michael, I read those quotes from those voters and you`ve talked to them.

You`ve been out there in Trump land --


O`DONNELL: That`s your latest --

MOORE: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Film --

MOORE: It`s my -- it`s not just Michael Moore any longer in Trump land, we`re all there now, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: That`s a good point. But you`ve spoken to people just like this voter who I just quoted.

MOORE: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Here`s somebody who is on Obamacare, depending on Obamacare, now seems to be realizing Donald Trump really is going to repeal Obamacare with that Republican Congress.

MOORE: Correct. And I think it`s important that people, liberals, people on the left do not laugh at these individuals.

There`s the woman I forget in which campaign prior to this said that she wanted the government out of her life.

And I think she was -- she was on Social Security or Medicare. You know, we live in a country where we`re not well-educated.

Our schools, we`ve left them -- we`ve left them to rot in many areas. We allow the Texas State Board of Education to control what`s in our textbooks.

So, when they try to remove Thomas Jefferson from the chapter on the enlightenment and get away with it as they did.

You know, this is the country we have. And so it`s very easy to fool people when you can make them ignorant like this.

Sadly, they`re going to find out what`s going to happen if they actually -- you know, Republicans and Trump get away with eliminating Obamacare.

And doing any of the number of other things they`re planning to do. Places where like where I live in Michigan are going to -- are going to have, you know, the crap smacked out of them in profound ways.

And I feel very bad about that. I don`t take any joy or glee in seeing how people are going to get their comeuppance for voting for Trump.

I don`t want to see anybody suffer. So, I guess it`s going to have to be our job, my job, hopefully the job of the Democratic Party to fight the fight so that these people, even the people that voted for Trump are protected from him.

O`DONNELL: Yes, I mean, Michael, he did say things that -- I mean, for example, Mexico is going to pay for the wall.

I think, surely maybe half, I don`t know. Some large number of Trump supporters listened to that and thought, that`s a great line, I don`t believe that will ever happen.

MOORE: Right --

O`DONNELL: And they -- and they still voted for Trump. And so that could infect a lot of other things that Donald Trump said.

I can -- I can see how a voter might think -- he doesn`t really mean it, he doesn`t really mean it. He doesn`t really mean half of what he`s saying up there.

MOORE: Yes --

O`DONNELL: And if you`re an Obamacare recipient, you might want to think he doesn`t mean that thing about Obamacare.

MOORE: Right, and Republicans aren`t the only ones that do that. I mean, we believed President Obama when he ran for office, said Guantanamo would be closed during his administration.

And I know all the people are now saying, Mike, the Republicans blocked him and all that. Yes, but, you know, we`re going to see now, with Trump what Republicans do really well.

And that is they buck up in a profound way. And they have the courage of their convictions and damn it, they`re going to get the job done, and they`re going to do it no matter what.

And that generally isn`t the Democrats` way. The Democrats` way is, I think we`re all going to be OK.

And now we don`t need to go to Wisconsin for seven months. What`s there to do in Wisconsin? That`s what we have on our side. And that`s why we lost, even though we won.

And that`s why -- if the Democratic Party, if these people who allowed this catastrophe to happen when we had the majority of Americans on our side, they -- if they don`t have it together like tomorrow, it is going to be one -- I can`t say it on basic cable.

But come January 21, it`s going to be a real legislative blood-bath on Capitol Hill.

And liberals and Hillary voters and Democrats and just people in general are going to be like -- their heads are going to spin when they see just how good Trump and the Republicans are at getting everything done that they want to get done or at least attempt to do it.

And a lot of the people that I know, especially in places like Michigan are also going to be in shock that he actually wasn`t kidding around when he said he was going to do these things.

He`s actually going to do them, so --

O`DONNELL: Michael, we`re going to --

MOORE: We better get ready --

O`DONNELL: Let`s squeeze in a little break here, and then --

MOORE: Yes --

O`DONNELL: When we come back, we`re going to do your five rules for all of us to follow in the new year. We`ll be right back --




O`DONNEL: We`re back with Michael Moore. He has a five-point plan for things you must do, must do in 2017. One, visit your member of Congress in their local office over the holiday break. Two, insist the DNC appoint new progressive leaders, three, form your own rapid response team of five to ten people, four, plan on going to the inauguration protests and go to protests all over the country now and in the future and five, have a plan b. As bad as you that it`s going to be, it`s going to be worse. Michael some of them are very clear. We got number one, visit your member of Congress at the local office and the local office --

MOORE: They`re all home. They`re all home in their districts right now.


MOORE: You could literally go downtown and see them.

O`DONNELL: The local office is more important than Washington, then that member knows you are really from that district and you have a vote there.

MOORE: that`s right.

O`DONNELL: But let`s go to the one, the form your own rapid response team of five to ten people, how does that work?

MOORE: All right, you -- basically, it`s very easy, a lot of people stop me and ask me, Michael, what can we do, what can we do. Don`t think in large terms there`s has to be some national, there`s no time to form some new national organization or whatever. You and five of your friends or ten of your family members or whatever need to form the, you know, pick the street you live on. You live on Oak Street in you`re the Oak Street rapid response team during the Trump administration.

And your job is going to be whatever happens, you`re going to be on a call list, a text list, you`re going to be on each other`s Facebook and your going to immediately, we`ve got to call our member of Congress, we have to write a letter, we have to go down to city hall, we have to have our voices heard on this matter. So whatever`s going to come up, we don`t know everything, because just like we didn`t know anything that was going to happen this year, we really don`t know how it`s all going to play out next year. So you`ve got to be ready with your core group of people where you`re going to act. And if everybody does this. if everybody has five to ten people and name your group, whatever you want to call it, you can, you know, you can even make up your own website. It`s very easy to do this stuff. And it will -- this thing will spread like wildfire, and they won`t know what hit them, because it`s going to be coming from the grass roots.

O`DONNELL: And then that last one about have a plan b, because as bad as you think it`s going to be, it`s going to be worse. So you have an idea of how bad it`s going to be but even you think it`s going to be worse than you think it`s going to be, so you can`t really imagine how bad it`s going to be, I guess.

MOORE: That is correct. And you are, you must have passed your existential philosophy course. That is exactly right. It`s kind of a downer to end the year, we`re in the holiday season now where everyone`s festive. We`ve got the eggnog out. And here I am saying it`s going to be even worse than you think it`s going to be, but it actually will be, and you`ve received a trailer, a preview, a coming attraction from President- Elect Trump. And that has been how he`s behaved since the election.

You`ve seen the cabinet he`s put together, millionaires and billionaires and generals and Nikki Haley. And you`ve witnessed that he`s far more concerned about Alec Baldwin than what is going on around the world. The tweeting won`t stop because he has three addictions, twitter, the red light that`s on top of that camera there, he needs to be on TV. Expect to see some form of Donald Trump show on some network. I totally believe this is going to happen now. And -- and the rallies.

He`s going to have to be out there. These three things are not going to stop. And he`s not going to be governing a lot, because he`s going to be very much, the Trump you showed at the beginning of the first segment. That`s pure television. The way he makes this stuff up about we`re going to get rid of Obamacare, replace, He has nothing to replace it with. It`s like he`s sitting at the desk on The Apprentice talking to Meat Loaf. And it going to be -- I won`t say four years. I`m not so sure that he`ll -- he`s either going to get tired of the job or screw up in some way, because a malignant narcissist who`s also a sociopath, you don`t want them in public office because they filter everything through how is this going to be good for me and they end up breaking the law when they do that.

So we don`t know how this is all going to play out, but it`s going to be bad for a lot of people. The people that it`s going to be the least bad for, Lawrence, are people like you and me, white guys. but if you`re Muslim, if you`re Mexican, if you`re any kind of an immigrant, if you`re African American, woman, a young person, you know, you could go through all these different groups of people that are going to have it very rough, and it`s important for the rest of us to stand up for them. If they actually go through with this Muslim registry, I`m going to make sure my name is one of the first names on that registry, and I want everyone to sign up on that registry, claim you`re a Muslim, fill this up out of protest so they won`t necessarily know where the Muslims are, because everybody`s a Muslim. Things like that. We need to get creative. We need to be bold.

We need to take action, get rid of the old guard in the DNC, boy, if we don`t get it together for 2018. If we`re still going with the same old crowd, we are doomed. We are going to be doomed in 2020 when the gerrymandering begins again with the new census, all this stuff has to happen now. But it`s the holidays, right and I don`t want to leave people with a bad taste in their mouth of how awful.

O`DONNELL: don`t worry, we have a very uplifting segment following you. I was ready for this.

MOORE: They told me that. It`s a great segment. and they said that because this is the sort of unofficial Lawrence O`donnell Christmas show, that you and I were going to reprise the duet famously sung by David Bowie and Bing Crosby, the Christmas carol a little drummer boy, and that`s how we`re going to go out in this segment with you and I -- now they`re telling me we`re out of time, wait a minute. I`m --

O`DONNELL: I`m so sorry, Michael.

MOORE: He can sing. He`s Irish. of course he is sing.

O`DONNELL: I`m so sorry, Michael Moore, the five-point plan.

MOORE: have a great holiday, Lawrence, everybody watching, Lawrence, you`ve done an excellent job this year, thank you for that. And thank you for early on calling it for what it is here and now, Lawrence, rum, pum, pum, pum.

O`DONNELL: Michael Moore`s going to sing us into the commercial. Go ahead. I play my drum for him, rum

MOORE: I play my drum for him rum, pum, pum, pum, rum, pum, pum, pum.


O`DONNELL: Donald Trump now knows that his tweets about companies affect their stock price. He briefly drove down Boeing when he attacked Boeing one day and then today he decided that perhaps after investing in Boeing he decided to drive up Boeing Stock price and drive down Lockheed-Martin stock prices perhaps after selling Lockheed-Martin. We don`t know. We don`t know. We don`t have any idea if Donald Trump personally benefitted when he tweeted today, based on the tremendous cost and cost overruns of the Lockheed-Martin F-35, I have asked Boeing to price out an F-18 super hornet. The F-18 is a 1980s design. The F-35Lockheed-Martin is the most advanced fighter plane in the world. These two planes are not comparable in any way. We just have no idea what Donald Trump was really up to today.


O`DONNELL: There`s more evidence today that Russia was behind the DNC hack. Crowdstrike, the company hired by the DNC to investigate the cyber attacks released a report that shows new links between Russian military intelligence and the Russian hackers believed to have conducted the attack. Their assessment is based on the type of malicious software the hackers used in the DNC breech. Crowdstrike determined that the Russian hackers used the same type of malware against the Ukrainian military in 2015.

Also, today the house intelligence committee released a bipartisan report on Edward Snowden. NBC`s Pete Williams has those details for us, Pete?

PETE WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Lawrence, this report on Snowden who`s been living in Moscow comes at a delicate time in U.S. Russian relations with intelligence officials blaming Vladimir Putin for political cyber attacks here and the President-Elect seeking closer ties. The report from the house intelligence committee says, since Snowden`s arrival in Moscow he has had and continues to have contact with Russian intelligence services.

The report also says Snowden is no whistle blower, it says only a small part of the 1.5 million documents that he stole from the NSA actually dealt with potential U.S. Civil liberties issues. It says for example, the defense department has identified 13 programs for protecting U.S. forces that if they fell into the hands of the Russians or Chinese could jeopardize the security of forces. We don`t know what they are because the list in the report is completely redacted. The report has lots of similar redactions in it.

So there are many parts of it that we can`t read. But it says interestingly and this is a new part of it, Snowden repeatedly flunked a test about privacy protections in one of the programs that he attacked with his leaks. This is one involving U.S. surveillance of e-mails, now Snowden himself has responded to this report in a series of tweets, he says, quote, they claim without evidence that I am in cahoots with Russian intel.

Everyone knows this is false. He says the report fails to show that he changed President Obama`s mind about the NSA`s vast database of phone calls, and Snowden`s lawyer, Ben Wisner of the ACLU says this quoting him, the report contains no evidence whatsoever that Snowden`s intention were anything other than public minded that his actions cause harm or that he`s under foreign influence because Wisner says no such evidence exists. Lawrence?

O`DONNELL: Pete Williams thanks. Coming up, some last minute help with your Christmas shopping and the last words you will hear from this program before Christmas will be from a remarkable 17-year-old girl.


O`DONNELL: The Rap reports that Donald Trump is so displeased with his team`s inability to lock in A-list talent for his inauguration events next month, that he`s ordered a Hail Mary shakeup of his recruiters to try to book performers. A person familiar with the situation told the Rap, Donald Trump`s been busy tweeting tonight. He tweeted the so-called A-list celebrities are all wanting tax to the inauguration, but look what they did for Hillary. Nothing. I want the people. Yes, sure, Donald. Sure. We`ll be right back.


O`DONNELL: I want to give the last word before Christmas to Tamandani Khuphuki who I met in Malawi last month. She`s one of the students who was able to finish high school thanks to your generosity to the K.I.N.D Fund. She feels lucky to have made it through high school but worries about all of the kids she knows who still cannot afford high school.


TAMANDANI KHUPHUKI, K.I.N.D SCHOLARSHIP RECIPIENT: There are so many girls and boys, both. But many of them are girls who are suffering a lot. They do need to go follow their educations, but of course they don`t have money, their parents are very poor. They can`t afford for their school fees. They need help. They`re discouraged.


O`DONNELL: We`ll hear more from Tamandani in a moment. Katrina tweeted, donated a desk last month. Seeing these kids so happy makes me want to do more, donating a scholarship after Christmas. The K.I.N.D fund does most of you know is a unique partnership created by MSNBC with UNICEF which provides desks made at factories in Malawi to kids in need of desks, K-I-N- D. The desk you contribute go to schools in Malawi that have never had desks.

The K.I.N.D Fund also has a scholarship program for girls to attend high school in Malawi where public high school is not free. And the high school graduation rate for girls is half the rate for boys. Brenda, you`ve done a great job at raising your son and shaping his values. You can contribute at You can choose to contribute to desks or to scholarships or to both and you can designate your gift in the name of anyone on your holiday gift list, and UNICEF will send them an e-mail, acknowledging your gift.

J.A.T.L. tweeted, I bought a desk, boy, this makes me so happy, thank you for giving me a chance to make a difference. And that captures exactly the way I feel about this. I feel so lucky to be working at a network that allows me to hear Tamandani`s plea for help for her friends and to actually be able to do something about it. So many of your tweets say how good it feels to help these kids, and once again this year your outpouring of generosity leaves me in awe of your kindness.

Every year I worry about you. I worry, is this the year when you will grow weary of me talking about these kids growing up on the other side of the world who need our help. But you never do. Your hearts open to them every year, no matter how repetitive I may sound. And in just the last month that I`ve been telling you about my recent trip to Malawi, you have contributed $2,003,095. You put us over the two million mark for this year as you do every year. As of tonight in the six years of the K.I.N.D Fund you have now contributed a total of $12,715,015.

Brian Broadwell tweeted my daughter Elizabeth gave her first grade teacher a donation in her teacher`s name for a desk. I love that. Brian, our first grade teachers are so important, in shaping our attitudes toward learning and toward school. And I`ll never forget my first grade teacher or my daughter Elizabeth`s first grade teacher, Mrs. Gorman. My daughter is now thriving in her senior year of college and she`s been with me in Malawi and was there when we decided to add a girl scholarship program to the K.I.N.D Fund.

She was in high school then and was meeting girls her age who had dropped out of high school because they couldn`t afford the tuition. Some of them were married with children. For reasons that seem silly to me now, I was a bit reluctant to complicate the mission of the K.I.N.D Fund by adding a girl scholarship program, but my daughter had no doubts about it. Tamandani told me what would have happened to her if my daughter hadn`t convinced me to add a girl scholarship program to K.I.N.D.


O`DONNELL: What would have happened if you didn`t get any help with your school fees?

KHUPHUKI: I would have been at home maybe I would have been married now with children. Because my friends who did not have this chance, they`re married. Some of them have two kids. Others one kid. Yes.

O`DONNELL: And these are girls your age?


O`DONNELL: How old are you?

KHUPHUKI: I`m 17 years old.

O`DONNELL: You`re 17.


O`DONNELL: And so you have friends who are 17 who have two kids?

KHUPHUKI: Two. Some are 12 years, some 15 years. But they have kids. Yes.


O`DONNELL: She has a friend who`s 12 years old who has a baby. Tamandani lights up when she talks about her future. She doesn`t sound like a kid talking about a distant dream. Thanks to the high school education that you have provided for her. She sounds like a confident young woman with a plan.


KHUPHUKI: I`m planning to -- planning to apply for medicine course in colleges.

O`DONNELL: You plan to apply to nursing school?


O`DONNELL: So you want to be a nurse?

KHUPHUKI: Yes, I want to be a nurse.

O`DONNELL: Why do you want to be a nurse?

KHUPHUKI: I want to be a nurse because there are so many people in the village they are suffering from different diseases. But from -- in the hospital there are little nurse and doctors. So I want to be one of the nurse to help them get better and be strong.


O`DONNELL: Tamandani Khuphuki, gets tonight`s and this week`s Last Word. MSNBC`s live coverage continues in to the 11th Hour with Brian Williams, that`s next.