Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL Date: December 9, 2016 Guest: Maria Teresa Kumar, Yamiche Alcindor, Nancy Giles, Ken Dilanian
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC NEWS ANCHOR: Do you think that incoming president might not cotton to folks like this with that kind of attitude about him once he gets the Washington? Well, that`s why it`s a good and now interesting thing to know that the guy who runs that office, he doesn`t leave when Obama leaves.
He`s one of these guys in a longer term. He`s got a five-year term. Trump gets him till 2018.
Elections have consequences, but they don`t change everything, at least they don`t change it all at the same time. And in the case of this plucky little agency they put in place after Watergate, that dynamic might be about to get really fun to watch. That does it for us tonight. We`ll see you again on Monday.
Now, it`s time for "The Last Word with Lawrence O`Donnell". Good evening, Lawrence.
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC NEWS ANCHRO: Hey, Rachel, happy Friday.
MADDOW: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Have a nice weekend. We got a lot of breaking news to deal within ourselves.
MADDOW: Yes. This is one of those days where after dinner Friday night, the news went nuts.
O`DONNELL: Yes. How dare they.
O`DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel.
O`DONNELL: We have breaking news, including on the new vote count in the presidential election. New York City has just reported its outstanding absentee ballots, which has now expanded. Those hundreds of thousands of ballots that were counted. They`ve now expanded Hillary Clinton`s national vote total. She now has 2.8 million more votes than Donald Trump. 65.9 million votes total for Hillary Clinton. 62.8 million votes for Donald Trump. That is a 2.1 percent lead for Hillary Clinton. Remember, the polling, prior to the election, indicated that she had about a 3 percent lead nationally in the polling before the election.
But first, we have other breaking news tonight. Breaking news about a Washington post report that now says the CIA has concluded that Russia was not just meddling in our election process. Russia was specifically trying to make Donald Trump the winner on election night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI MELBER, MSNBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: It`s a stinging blow to one of Trump`s most loyal defenders. Giuliani is out.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NYC MAYOR: America, what happened to it?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF USA: Hey, I don`t need your vote anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mitt Romney still a candidate?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is.
GIULIANI: I thought Mitt went over the line in the things he said about Donald Trump.
MITT ROMNEY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS: Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud.
ROGER STONE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: These are people who did nothing whatsoever to elect Donald Trump.
GIULIANI: Never Trump. I will never vote for Trump.
STONE: Trump must resist this armada.
LESTER HOLT, MSNBC NEWS ANCHOR: President Obama, he`s ordering U.S. intelligence to produce a report with all the enemy suggesting the Russia government to use cyberattacks to try and influence the U.S. election.
CHUCK TODD: The Obama administration believes if they don`t do this review (ph) Trump never will.
TRUMP: It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay?
RON ALLEN, MSNBC NEWS ANCHOR: The fact that there isn`t screaming from the rooftops by conservatives, it shows you just how other worldly a state the United States is in right now.
TRUMP: Who wants a hat?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Breaking news tonight, the Washington Post is now reporting that a secret CIA report concluded, "That Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency, rather than just to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system."
And just moments ago, the Trump transition team released this statement about that Washington Post article, "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It`s now time to move on and make America great again." Of course it is not one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history, not even close.
Joining us now is Malcolm Nance, former counterterrorism intelligence office and an MSNBC contributor and the author of the "The Plot to Hack America: How Putin`s Cyberspies and WikiLeaks Tried to Steal the Election", also with us, David Corn, he`s Washington Bureau Chief for "Mother Jones" and an MSNBC political analyst.
Malcolm, your reaction to tonight`s report?
MALCOLM NANCE, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: Well, it`s not surprising that we would eventually get down to where the U.S. intelligence community drew classified information together and came and forwarded that information to the President of the United States, and we`re just getting worried about it. It`s probably months old.
I mean I did my analysis between April and September and managed to come up with the exact same thing that the National Director of Intelligence and president released. This is just using real deep information. And I think it`s only going to lead to more surprising revelations in the future.
O`DONNELL: David, a couple hours ago the news was that President Obama was ordering the CIA to do a report of this nature. That now tonight`s breaking news is, they already have a report of this nature. It was not supposed to be a public report. And now it has leaked to the Washington Post. And now we are seeing an analysis of what Russia was up to in this election that is much more detailed than anything we knew before.
DAVID CORN, MOTHER JONES: First, we have to congratulate Malcolm for being ahead of the curve on this and really know what he was talking about weeks ago, months ago.
There have been lots of calls on Capitol Hill, mainly from democrats and some republicans in the last few days started joining in for an a public inquiry, investigation of what`s done. It`s quite clear that the CIA, FBI, NSA have been looking into this for some time. We just didn`t know what they had found. Although they did say in October that there were indications that Russia was behind the hacking, but there was a lot of talk to the campaign that Russia was just messing around to mess around and make things uncertain.
Now, we have -- I`m not sure if it`s a report, it`s an assessment that Russia was doing this purposefully to put Trump in the White House. And almost more explosive in this Washington Post story, which I think this is bigger. I think this is actually bigger than Watergate now. And just as explosive is the telling of its story that during the campaign Obama went to congress and he tried to get republicans and democrats to join with him in calling out Russia for hacking DNC and messing around to make a difference in this election. And Mitch McConnell and another republican or two said, "No, e won`t do it," which makes them useful idiots in sort of old KGB terminology and Putin`s handmaiden in helping him to elect Donald Trump President of the United States.
O`DONNELL: That meeting was in September, it`s been so called "Gang of 12", according to the Washington Post report, and that is the leaders of the senate and the leaders of the intelligence, leaders of the house, the intelligence committees, democrat and republican, all together in a secured room in the Capitol where the Obama administration, CIA made this presentation, and the Washington Post reports this way, saying in that secret briefing, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell voiced doubts about the veracity of the intelligence.
And Malcolm, it also says that Mitch McConnell said that if the administration went public with this information, he would treat it as a political maneuver by the White House and not a clean intelligence revelation about what the administration had found.
NANCE: Yes, it`s almost disgusting. I mean, this nation was attacked through a cyber warfare operation, ordered by the former director of the FSB/KGB, what used to be the KGB, Vladimir Putin, and he ordered his intelligence apparatus to go a year in advance and to hack the systems of the DNC and almost every other component of the Democratic Party and allow them to take whatever information they could find and use it literally as Watergate 2.0. They took the information. They applied it, and they applied it to where they could choose one person to be their candidate, and that was Donald Trump.
The question here is not whether there was an intelligence analysis that should have been leaked earlier or not. That`s done. The assessment was being done real time. Our systems and assets coming from other intelligence agencies and our own intelligence collection are going to prove, have already proven this out. We knew that by mid August that this was clearly the Russians.
The big question is, what links did Russia have to the Trump campaign? Is this going to turn into a counter intelligence investigation to where American citizens may either have been in collusion, or were they actually just unwitting idiots or unwitting assets to use intelligence parlance and then became witting assets. And I believe by the time Donald Trump understood and made his call that Russia should release hacked e-mails that he understood Russia was working in his interest and he became a witting, you know, asset to them. But question is, who actually has ties?
CORN: And if I can add to that, a story that I did shortly before the election, wasn`t much time before the election, I cited a counterintelligence officer, a veteran, a Russian counterintelligence from another service, not the American service, who`ve been sending reports to the FBI, of course, through the course of all last summer (ph), saying that he had evidence that the Russian intelligence services had tried, over the course of the last five years, to co-opt and cultivate Donald Trump.
So that gets to the point that Malcolm was raising, not only were they messing around and trying to created external circumstances that aided Donald Trump`s election, but they might have actually been trying to make connections with Donald Trump or the people around him to try to sway him in a way that was beneficial to Russian interests.
O`DONNELL: And in some of the meetings that they had about this, there was a concern raised, especially on the matter of Russia`s ability to hack election results and hack into certain voting systems. There was a concern raised that any revelations about that might undermine the public`s confidence in voting and possibly even their willingness to vote. It could possibly affect turnout.
And so there was a complexity in the Obama administration about how to react to this. The report indicates, Malcolm, that the Obama administration was not of one clear view of exactly what they should do publicly about this.
NANCE: Well, that would be very typical of the Obama administration. This is a group of very thoughtful people who listen to the opinions of all parties involved, you have 17, actually 19 different agencies, but 17 which would have some stake in this. And you have to, you know, put it in context and you have to get all presidencies together and then you have put into an assessment like we see it`s coming from the CIA, and this isn`t the sort of thing you want to play with.
You are talking about the fundamental structures of America`s political system that is operated for 240 years without true interference. We`re talking about the potential of a foreign nation may have put their thumb on the scale and chosen a president through what could only be characterized as the greatest espionage mission in the history of Russia, if it turns out to be true. If it does turn out to be true, it`s just makes sense to try to go and find out who`s involved.
O`DONNELL: And David, in the Washington Post`s report, there are indications that some of the democrats in congress who knew about this were disappointed that the Obama administration did not do something more specific and more public.
CORN: We have seen. I`ve talked to democrats in the intelligence committees who would say more needs to come out. They wouldn`t tell me. They wouldn`t leak it. They kind of plotted and played by the rules. But in the last couple days, you`ve seen senate intelligence of democrats, and we saw Adam Schiff and Dianne Feinstein, the top democrats in the house and senate intelligence committees, say there`s stuff that needs to come out about this. Harry Reid said this, too, and people dismissed that back in October.
So I believe we need not just the investigation that the president has ordered, because that may or may not become public. We need either independent commission or a congressional investigation that is committed to holding public hearings and putting out a public report.
I mean there is nothing more fundamental than the security and the sanctity of elections in a democracy. And republicans who don`t buy this, whether they`re showing that they`re not patriots and not even conservatives, they`re just opportunists who are willing to ride on the coattails of perhaps a tainted election.
NANCE: Lawrence, can I add?
O`DONNEL: Malcolm Nance, thank you very -- Go ahead, Malcolm, quickly before we go.
NANCE: Yes. Just one quick point here, you know, David`s absolutely right. But the most important facet that should be remembered by republicans is, they are targets of Russian intelligence also. Donald Trump is probably been a collection target for the Russians from the first time he stepped foot in Ms. Universe in 2012. His mobile phones are unsecured. There was a myriad of wealth of information that a collector from a Russian version of NSA could have, and they could use it against them, too.
O`DONNEL: Malcolm Nance, thank you for that very troubling last word on this subject tonight. I really appreciate it. David, please stick around.
Coming up, on his victory tour tonight, Donald Trump told the crowds that he doesn`t need them any more. He actually said that, and he seems to be proving that with his choices for cabinet.
O`DONNELL: The senate is voting right now on a spending bill to avoid a government shutdown tonight after senate democrats ended a standoff over health benefits for retired coal miners. Democrats led by Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia agreed to vote on that after republicans agreed to take it up in the New Year.
The bill is expected to pass. Tonight`s bill is expected to pass and head to President Obama`s desk before the midnight deadline.
Up next, Donald Trump actually told his supporters he doesn`t need them anymore. He really did.
O`DONNELL: Donald Trump has a new transition slogan, "I don`t need you anymore." Donald Trump actually said as much today at a rally in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We want to fix up our infrastructure big league. That includes -- And who`s better at that than me? Believe me. I don`t need your vote anymore. But I`m telling me I`m very good at that.
That`s why I don`t need your vote. Can you imagine that? Four years, I`ll need your vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: There`s big news from the Trump transition tonight. Rudy Giuliani is apparently out of the running for Secretary of State. Rudy Giuliani is one of Donald Trump`s earliest and most rabid supporters and was reportedly Trump adviser Steve Bannon`s pick for the job.
Now, Giuliani, he claims that he has taken himself out of the running for that position.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: It was on November 29th. And I thought that the president-elect who my main interest was getting him elected, not getting a job in saving America. I thought there were enough choices, good ones, for him to pick that I wasn`t absolutely necessary. If I felt like I was the only one who could do it, probably, I would have stayed in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The Wall Street Journal reports that ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson is now Donald Trump`s top candidate for Secretary of State. The Wall Street Journal says Rex Tillerson has strong ties to Vladimir Putin, "Among those considered for the post, Mr. Tillerson has perhaps the closest ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin, having negotiated a 2012 energy partnership deal with Russia. In 2012, the Kremlin bestowed the countries order of friendship decoration on Mr. Tillerson."
NBC News has learned Donald Trump plans to name Gary Cohn, the president and COO of Goldman Sachs as the director of the president`s National Economic Council. Gary Cohn is the third Goldman Sachs` employee to be offered a job in the Trump White House. Donald Trump picked 17-year Goldman Sachs` veterans Steven Mnuchin for Treasury Secretary and one-time Goldman Sachs` banker Steve Bannon is of course Donald Trump`s top White House adviser.
During the campaign, Donald Trump attacked Goldman Sachs` political influence over Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I know the guys at Goldman Sachs. They have total, total, total control over him, just like they have control over Hillary Clinton. We obviously didn`t want the voters to know that he is totally controlled lock, stock and barrel by Citi Bank and Goldman Sachs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Today, Donald Trump is getting some resistance over his pick for Labor Secretary, Fast food CEO Andy Puzder, over his past positions supporting immigration reform and foreign labor.
In the 2013 outbid for Politico, Andy Puzder wrote, "The fact is that there are jobs in this country that U.S. citizens, for whatever reason, are reluctant or unwilling to perform. We need realistic and enforceable reform. It`s not so much to ask our government which consumes so much of national wealth to produce an effective and workable immigration system in return."
Trump ally Roger Stone said this yesterday about Andy Puzder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STONE: There is an armada of retreads from the old Republican Party, both the congressional wing of the party and the Romney/McCain/Bush burnouts who are trying to board this ship. These are people who did nothing whatsoever to elect Donald Trump. And they`re people who don`t share Donald Trump`s values. Trump must resist this armada.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Maria Teresa Kumar, President and COO of Voto Latino and an MSNBC contributor, and back with us, is David Corn.
Maria Teresa, so we have a proposed Labor Secretary who is in favor of having immigrant labor come in to this country and finding a legal way to do it.
MARIA TERSA KUMAR, PRESIDENT AND COO OF VOTO LATINO: Right. And solely that`s refreshing. But at the same time he doesn`t believe in a minimum wage. So it`s almost putting the American worker at odds and that`s one of the reasons why you shouldn`t be calling him Department of Labor, but instead Department of Management.
And it`s -- I think it`s -- again, it keeps threading the wheel of Donald Trump when he is going out in Baton Rouge saying I don`t need your vote for another four years. It`s very clear that he is trying to hood wink the American voter and saying I came out saying I`m going to be for the little guy. But I`m really -- In fact, I`m actually for the big banks and individuals that are holding corporate interest above anything else.
O`DONNELL: Let`s take a look at just how Donald Trump himself now completely undermines the whole thrust of his campaign, and let`s look at tonight`s example with "lock her up". Let`s watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: That plays great before the election, now we don`t care, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: David Corn, that`s pretty much the whole campaign there.
CORN: It really is, because he promised. He promised those sucker voters that a lot of them were out there that he would prosecute her and lock her up. And Michael Flynn said the same thing, Chris Christie said the same thing, and what, oh, we didn`t really mean it. We didn`t care.
And, yes, you know, I hate to say these words on T.V., Lawrence, but to a limited extent, I agree with Roger Stone. Oh, I can`t believe I said that.
But listen -- I mean everything that Donald Trump said, and Roger Stone got suckered too. It`s always situational. It doesn`t matter. There are no core principles there. And so he attacks Hillary Clinton for giving speeches, for giving speeches to Goldman Sachs, and then he puts the Goldman Sachs guys in who represent the International cabal of bankers that he also said he was against during the campaign.
I`m waiting for Alex Jones` mind to explode, because there is no consistency here, because there is no principle here, and that`s what you`re stuck with anybody who supported this guy.
O`DONNELL: I just want to read these words again, what Donald Trump just said, "That plays great before the election, now we don`t care."
Maria Teresa, no politician has ever said that about a position that they advocated strongly during a campaign. He seems to be going that way, in all sorts of ways, including alarming his hardcore anti-immigration supporters by saying he will figure out something to do with the dreamers. He will figure out some way of allowing them to stay, even though several times he very specifically said they all have to leave this country.
KUMAR: Well, that`s right. And I think that this is where it becomes very difficult, because there are a lot of voters who voted for Donald Trump saying he really didn`t mean it, and then there was a core group of his supporter who said he means every word and is why I`m sticking with Donald Trump.
So it will be interesting as he shifts from one position to the next. If his supporters continue being as loyal as they are to him or if they turn out against him. And that is the danger. If these supporters who basically are, in many ways, incredibly, not only committed to him, but also this idea that there is a hypocrisy that happens in Washington, if they feel and take it with and say, "Wait, he played us. What does that turn into?" And that is a difficult Genie to put back into bottle.
O`DONNELL: David, just going to back to Rudy Giuliani for a minute, the good news today is that Rudy Giuliani is officially out of the running for Secretary of State. We`re going to be spared to that (ph). And when you watch Giuliani talk about it, he`s trying to play it as if it was his decision, which is what people who get passed over frequently try to do.
O`DONNELL: But the way he talks about it, it`s as if he`s attending his own funeral. It`s the saddest version of Giuliani I`ve ever seen.
CORN: I got to tell, the statement the Trump campaign put out, transition put out today was unlike any other statement I`ve ever seen. It was post- dated. It said on November 29th, Rudy Giuliani told Donald Trump he didn`t want to be Secretary of State. That was ten days ago.
CORN: And so why did we not know that then? Why did not Rudy Giuliani do what`s normally done in these circumstances? You know this is a Dennis (ph) in Washington come out then and say, "I`m removing myself from consideration."
So why are we finding out this happened ten days ago while his name continued to be floated by certain people within the Trump campaign. You know, none of it makes sense. But here we have the two biggest, you know, I think Trump surrogates during the campaign, Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani, they`ve been dumped, and now the question is, were they also duped?
O`DONNELL: David Corn and Maria Teresa Kumar, thank you both for joining us tonight. I appreciate it.
CORN: Thank you.
KUMAR: Thank you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, a white supremacist confesses to mass murder.
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, "THE LAST WORD" HOST: Today the jury in the trial of Dylann Roof watched a videotaped of his confession in an interview with the FBI to killing nine people at Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina last June. Here is what he told FBI agents in that video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DYLANN ROOF, SUSPECT IN CHARLESTON CHURCH SHOOTING: I went to that church in Charleston and I did it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t want to put any words in your mouth that`s why Agent Stansbury is asking you what exactly is that you did do.
ROOF: Well I did, I killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: And the video Dylann Roof talks about why he did what he did. He tells the FBI agents that he targeted the church because he knew there would be African-American people in there. And here`s what he said when asked if he is a white supremacist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you consider yourself a white supremacist? You know, sometimes that`s hard .
ROOF: . a white nationalist is a white supremacist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your definition of the two then, because you said you`re not a white supremacist, you`re white nationalist. What`s in your mind .
ROOF: I do consider myself a white supremacist, sure. White people are superior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: And here`s what he says was the first thing that made him develop those views.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROOF: The first thing that I guess, I would say woke me up, you know, would be the Trayvon Martin case. You know, and that was a while back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
ROOF: What was it, two years ago? And, you know, I kept hearing about this kid, you know, and I`m like, eventually, I decided to, you know, look his name up, just type him into Google, you know what I`m saying?
And then I read the Wikipedia article not showing about Martin and I couldn`t understand what the big deal was (inaudible). And then for some reason after I read that I typed in -- for some reason it made me type in the words black on white crime and that was it ever since then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: After the break, we`ll discuss this with Nancy Giles and Yamiche Alcindor. Yamiche has interviewed white nationalists. That`s next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your mind, the white race is the dominant race.
ROOF: No, I don`t think the white race is the dominant race. I wish it wasn`t. And I think there should be. That`s the problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Nancy Giles, the Contributor to CBS News Sunday Morning and Yamiche Alcindor, a National Political Reporter for "The New York Times."
I find this so poisonous and ugly that I`m not sure I even know how to talk about it. Yamiche, you`ve spoken to people, presumably not homicidal rampagers like this guy, but who share his views.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": I have spoken with people who share his views. The interviews that I have had have been with white nationalists who were excited about Donald Trump coming into office. They were right before the RNC.
I talked to this man named William Johnson, and he was really talking about the idea that most of the times people who feel -- he feels, though, whites are kind of losing their grip on America and there aren`t many politicians who speak to that.
He was really excited about Donald Trump coming in because he felt like Donald Trump is speaking to the fact that white who are losing their grip on society and one of the things that he kept saying, because he was really pleasant (ph), but one of the things he kept saying me was that the founding stock of America is being left behind.
And then when I ask him what`s the founding stock he said white people. White people are superior and in some ways -- somehow we`ve got that turn on our head and that`s no longer the case and that`s what I`m hearing Dylann Roof, that he also feels as though white people are superior and should be with dominant race, but aren`t.
O`DONNELL: They absolutely do. And, Nancy, this distinction that some people are going for of, I am not a white supremacist, I`m a white nationalist is a crazy lie or meaningless distinction. They absolutely believe in superiority.
NANCY GILES, CONTRIBUTOR, CBS NEWS SUNDAY MORNING: Absolutely. And the thing apparently that was the trigger with Dylann Roof was these misstatistical -- this mystical statistical information that black people are killing white people in huge, huge percentages which is absolutely not true.
O`DONNELL: Which is something Donald Trump tweeted, a lie he tweeted.
GILES: And it`s totally untrue. I mean, if you look at the FBI crime stats, crimes happen within groups, like more black people unfortunately kill black people than white people. And the same thing is true for white people. So this idea that there`s this kind of white genocide going on perpetuated by the black race is just crazy.
And also, I`ve just got to say that even talking about this, like, you know, legitimatizing it even by talking about it makes me really ill. It almost -- you always want to say like back in the days of civil right, would George Wallace have gotten equal time with Martin Luther King? I mean, this is not -- this is just wrong.
This isn`t like we need to stick up for white people because this is racial superiority at the expense of another race. It`s wrong.
O`DONNELL: This is a guy who couldn`t make it through 10th grade in high school. And there are seems to be a mental defective component to this, especially when you listen to this part, which is when they talk to him about how many people he killed. Let`s listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I told you nine people died last night, how would that make you feel?
ROOF: I don`t believe you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was nine.
ROOF: There weren`t even nine people there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just a little bit over nine.
ROOF: Are you guys (inaudible?)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we`re not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel in all honesty?
ROOF: Well, it makes me feel bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELLE: Yamiche, he discovers there that he killed nine people. His reaction is there weren`t even nine people there. There were way more than nine people there. So he wasn`t even able to perceive what he was actually doing in that church.
And then when he`s asked how it makes him feel to discover that it`s nine, he says, "It makes me feel bad." This is someone who has some serious clouds in his brain.
ALCINDOR: I would say that he has some serious clouds in his brain, and I would kind of think, "Oh, OK, maybe he didn`t understand that there were nine people there, except that he sat through bible study for 45 minutes and then proceeded to shoot people, at least two some people are alive to say -- remind, "So I`m going to leave you here so that you can tell people how much I hate black people." And then he went around and actually starts screaming racial epithet law shooting people.
He also chose African-American church that was historic. It was Mother Emanuel. This is not him just walking in to the grocery store and shooting. So, well, I can say, "Oh, yes, it`s down like maybe he speaks kind of slow -- slowly and he might be a little bit incompetent.
At the end of the day, this was a crime that was very well thought-out. He had manifesto, he had pictures. So I really can`t kind of buy into the idea that he is someone who is now confused about the fact that he shot nine people and feels bad about it.
He had so many chances to not to do this crime, including when you were sitting there for 45 minutes and they read scripture to him and introduced him to the other members of the church.
GILES: I mean, it`s this textbook and I found that really kind of interesting listening to the interrogation. For starters, I thought it was such a civilized interrogation. You know, so calm and so kind of inviting and kind of giving him lots of opportunities to maybe show some sort of feeling or some sort of remorse or explain away what he was doing.
And I totally agree with Yamiche, he was really off putting to hear this strange kind of slow way that he was talking with the strange pauses and lapses where you would think maybe this guy is just like out of his mind.
But when you go back and you look at the fact that he sat through an entire service and then did what he did, and then, again, to repeat what you said, purposely left people alive and said so you`ll tell the tale. This guy is pretty demonic.
O`DONNELL: Yeah, demonic, yeah, and very, very confident of his racism all the way through. That he had no doubts about. Nancy Giles and Yamiche Alcindor, thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate it
GILES: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Up next, we have more on that breaking news report that the CIA now has concluded that Russia intended, specifically, to help Donald Trump win the presidency.
O`DONNELL: Now more on tonight`s breaking news, "The Washington Post" is reporting tonight that a secret report, in a secret report, the CIA has concluded that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency rather than just undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system.
The Trump transition team responded to the CIA report with simply this. "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction." Donald Trump named Republican Congressman Mike Pompeo, a member of the House Intelligence Committee as his nominee for CIA director last month.
Joining us by phone is Ken Dilanian, NBC News National Security Reporter. Ken, how is the intelligence community viewing this development?
KEN DILANIAN, NBC NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Lawrence, thanks for having me. I just first say NBC News has not independently confirmed the post story, although it`s consistent with the plain facts of the case, I mean, the hack that the U.S. Intelligence Community has attributed to Russia, essentially appeared to hurt the Clinton campaign and helps Trump campaign.
The statement that the Trump transition team put and this wasn`t a tweet, this is a statement with their letter head repudiating the CIA was just an extraordinary moment in presidential transition history. And I`m not aware of any president in history for it. And the U.S. Intelligence Community will be wing it with alarm and trepidation.
I mean, the CIA has one main cause for the president of the United States and there`s, you know, supposed to be a relationship of trust there. Their job is to provide him the best information, the best intelligence. And he`s starting out on a footing where he is essentially saying I don`t trust what you`re telling me, what you`re saying about a really important development in our history.
O`DONNELL: Does it leave the intelligence community wondering if they have to find a new dynamic in dealing with this president, this incoming president than they have with any other president?
DILANIAN: Well, that`s not clear, because the man that Trump has appointed or, you know, has named to be the next CIA director, Mike Pompeo, is a guy who understands the agency. He`s been on the House, Intelligence Community. He`s been over there for briefings. And that appointment was greeted within the agency, I mean, intelligence community with some joy and jubilation compared to some of other names that were out there.
So -- and Mike Pompeo is not a friend of Russia. And presumably he`s going to and explains it to President-elect Trump, "This is what the intelligence says." So we may see this dynamic change over time, but it`s pretty clear that Trump views this assessment that Russia interfered with the election as impugning the election result and he`s not happy with it.
O`DONNELL: We have to leave it there. Ken Dilanian, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
DILANIAN: Thanks for having me.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, this year, my Christmas day was the day before Thanksgiving. I`ll tell you why.
O`DONNELL: And now for tonight`s Last Word, this year, Christmas came the day before Thanksgiving at one school in Africa.
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VICTOR CHINYAMA, UNICEF OFFICIAL: I can tell you that the desks delivered at the school, that`s Christmas for these kids. Christmas comes in December 25th and pretty much nothing happens in their lives. When a desk is delivered to them at the school, that is Christmas. You have made their day. You have made their year. You have made their life.
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O`DONNELL: That was Victor Chinyama, a UNICEF official who helped me deliver desks to a school in Malawi on my first trip there six years ago. As what Victor said, just before that first truck loaded desks arrived. We delivered just 30 desks that first time, enough for one classroom, paid for basically with the cash in my pocket.
And then when I told the story of that first desk delivery on this program, you got involved, and you created many more Christmas days at schools all over Malawi. The first year I invited you to help with what we decided to call K.I.N.D. fund, the Kids In Need of Desks, you contributed $2.5 million. You have maintained that pace since then and have contributed as of tonight a total of 11,493, 269. That money is now divided between the desks fund and a fund to provide scholarships for girls to attend high school.
Primary school is free in Malawi, but high school is not and girls need extra help to stay in high school. The high school graduation rate for girls is half the graduation rate for boys. You`ve contributed $9.2 million for desks and we now have three factories in Malawi making these desks. You have doubled, doubled the number of these desks in schools in Malawi, but most schools there still do not have desks.
You can help us deliver more desks or scholarships by going to the lastworddesks.msnbc.com. You can designate your contribution for desks or for scholarships. You can also designate your contribution as a gift to any one on your gift list and UNICEF will send them an e-mail acknowledging your gift.
About half a million kids in Malawi sat at one of these desks in their schools today, thanks to you. Usually, three kids slide into these desks together. The desks that we delivered that first year are still in service and some new kids are getting to use these desks every year. And so at least a million kids have spent a year at one of these desks now and they never expected to have desks.
They`d never seen desks before a truck pulled into their school yard and started unloading desks. And whenever that happens, the kids always want to carry the desks into the classrooms themselves as they did the day before Thanksgiving at the Malamba Primary School in Southern Malawi.
Here is what the classrooms looked like in that school before the desks arrived. This is a first grade class. The room was designed for about 30 students, just about the size of an American classroom, but there were 101 kids in attendance in that classroom that morning.
That`s Maureen in the green dress, who`s holding that green bag in her mouth. Maureen isn`t the only kid I`ve seen holding onto her school bag that way. Very few kids have backpacks in Malawi and so they carry their stuff in plastic bags, and there`s no good place to put those bags when they`re sitting on the floor.
When the kids have to write, they put their paper on their legs or on the back of a friend and there`s just no good place to write when you`re sitting on the floor. When the desks arrived, the kids rushed out to greet the truck and the teachers use that opportunity to clean up the classroom floors for the arrival of the desks. And then desks started pouring into the classrooms, 300 desks that day.
And when the kids took their seats at their desks, Maureen was the first one to start writing. That desk became a serious workplace for Maureen, instantly. Class participation immediately improved once the kids were at their desks. They were learning English words for fruits.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lemon, lemon, lemon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lemon, lemon, lemon.
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O`DONNELL: Yamakani (ph) told me that none of the kids had any idea the desks were coming to the school that day. He said he was very happy to be sitting at a desk, because he said, "When we were sitting down on the floor, we used to suffer ant bites."
Yamakani doesn`t own shoes, so he`ll probably still be brushing ants off of his feet. Most of the kids at this school don`t have shoes and that`s how I measure the wealth of a village in Malawi, not by how many cars people have in their driveways because there are no driveways and there are no cars. Shoes tell the story.
When you watch the kids playing and running around without looking at their feet, you can`t tell whose wearing shoes and who isn`t. The barefoot kids don`t think for a second that they are somehow limited compared to the kids with shoes. They don`t think there`s something they can`t do because they don`t have shoes. And the kids with shoes don`t act superior to the kids with no shoes. That`s not the way these kids are.
None of them have very much, at best, one change of clothes and maybe a pair of shoes. And then every once in a while, there`s the kid with just one shoe. Maybe she`ll get another shoe some day. Maybe she won`t. But she has a desk now, thanks to you.
You have lifted her off the floor and given her a place to write, a place to learn and she`s going to have a desk as she moves through every grade at the Malamba Primary School. All 1,052 students at that school have these desks now and they expressed their gratitude and happiness the way kids in Malawi always do. They burst into song.