Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL Date: October 27, 2016 Guest: Sasha Issenberg, David Frum, Steve Shale, Mark Ruffalo
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: That does it for us tonight, we will see you again tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good evening Lawrence.
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Rachel, any word from Melania Trump on the vegetable garden?
MADDOW: No, but I think my phone is broken, I haven`t heard from her in a long time.
O`DONNELL: OK --
MADDOW: Yes --
O`DONNELL: Thank you Rachel --
MADDOW: Thanks, Lawrence --
O`DONNELL: We`re following breaking news tonight involving Mike Pence`s campaign airplane. Everyone is safe after Mike Pence`s plane slid off a rain-soaked runway at LaGuardia Airport just earlier tonight while landing.
We will have a live report from someone who was on that plane. And with just 11 days left in the campaign tonight, just 11, Donald Trump reached back 20 days with Bill O`Reilly to dwell on what was surely the worst day of the Trump campaign.
And one report from inside the Trump campaign now indicates that voter suppression is the only way left for the Trump campaign to win.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: Do you believe you would be ahead if not for the "Access Hollywood" stuff?
DONALD TRUMP, CHAIRMAN & PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATIONS & REPUBLICAN PARTY NOMINEE, 2016 ELECTION: The microphone was not supposed to be on.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: We want a president who values and honors women.
(CROSSTALK)
O`REILLY: Are you going to take any action after the election against Nbc?
TRUMP: You`ll see, you`ll see.
OBAMA: Make no mistake about it, casting our vote is the ultimate way we go high when they go low. That`s how we go high, we vote!
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE & DEMOCRATIC PARTY NOMINEE, 2016 ELECTION: Seriously, is there anyone more inspiring than Michelle Obama?
(CHEERS)
OBAMA: First ladies, we rock!
(CHEERS)
TRUMP: When I win, when -- do you understand me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re twisting ourselves in knots a little bit to find a scenario where he wins.
MICHAEL STEELE, FORMER CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: This thing is pretty much damn near toast.
TRUMP: Addiction tick on --
STEELE: It is what this party and its nominee has done to itself.
TRUMP: You`re welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has been this cascade of allegations and accusations of sexual misconduct.
MELANIA TRUMP, WIFE OF DONALD TRUMP: Do we still need to talk about that?
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, JOURNALIST: "People Magazine" story, they brought forward six women. That is probably the story --
TRUMP: Why didn`t you write the story 12 years ago?
STEPHANOPOULOS: She said she was afraid.
TRUMP: Oh, she was afraid, give me a break.
STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDIAN & TELEVISION HOST: Donald Trump is not afraid of anything except divorce lawyers, the IRS and normal-sized gloves.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Tonight, with the precious 11 days left in his presidential campaign, just 11 days for Donald Trump to pull off a come-from-behind victory and convince America that he should be the next president of the United States.
Donald Trump pulled his campaign backward 20 days to the single worst day of the Trump campaign, and issued another veiled threat tonight about the possibility now of suing Nbc over the "Access Hollywood" tape where Donald Trump brags about his methods of sexual assault.
"Access Hollywood" is owned by Nbc Universal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`REILLY: Do you believe you would be ahead if not for the "Access Hollywood" stuff?
TRUMP: I just don`t know. I think it was very negative, it was locker room talk. The microphone was not supposed to be on, not that I make that as an excuse for myself.
But certainly, it was an illegal act that was Nbc. It was not supposed to be on --
O`REILLY: Do you think it was illegal, what they --
TRUMP: But I just --
O`REILLY: Just putting that tape out?
TRUMP: Oh, absolutely --
O`REILLY: Yes --
TRUMP: You know that was a private locker, you know, that was a private dressing room. Yes, that was certainly --
(CROSSTALK)
We`re doing --
O`REILLY: Are you going to take any action after the election --
TRUMP: Yes, of course --
O`REILLY: Against Nbc?
TRUMP: Well, you`ll see, you`ll see --
O`REILLY: You know, so responsible --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You`re going to see after the election, but I will -- I will -- I will tell you, first of all, shouldn`t have been said -- but it was, you know, was locker room talk, and yes, I mean, you know, we`re going to find out soon enough, I will tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Attorney Gloria Allred will be joining us coming up. We`ll get her view of the possibility of that lawsuit.
A new "Cnbc" national poll of likely voters shows Hillary Clinton at 43 percent, Donald Trump 9 points, down at 34 percent, Gary Johnson, 7, Jill Stein, 2. Donald Trump continued to insist tonight that the polls are wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I won the third debate, easily, it wasn`t even a contest. And everybody had me winning, every poll had me winning big-league.
And then "Cnn" did a poll, and they had me losing somewhat, and I said how did that happen? I wonder. And then there were other polls that were -- look, I mean, I`m winning in certain polls.
And then in other polls, the dirty polls we call them, I was losing by, you know, numbers that were ridiculous --
O`REILLY: Yes, I have all polls --
TRUMP: I think I`m --
O`REILLY: Here --
TRUMP: I mean, I think we`re winning, but Bill, you look at some of these polls, it`s absolutely ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: A stunning report from inside the Trump campaign in "Bloomberg Business Week" today quotes a Trump campaign senior official saying, "we have three major voter suppression operations underway.
They`re aimed at three groups. Clinton needs to win overwhelmingly. Idealistic white liberals, young women and African-Americans."
The voter suppression strategy targets negative information about Hillary Clinton to those groups including through Facebook`s so-called dark post.
The campaign says only the people we want to see it, see it. In her first appearance campaigning with Hillary Clinton today, Michelle Obama focused on the Trump voter suppression strategy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: That`s the strategy, to make this election so dirty and ugly that we don`t want any part of it. So, when you hear folks talking about a global conspiracy and saying that this election is rigged, understand that they are trying to get you to stay home.
They are trying to convince you that your vote doesn`t matter, that the outcome has already been determined, and you shouldn`t even bother making your voice heard.
They are trying to take away your hope. And then just for the record, in this country, the United States of America, the voters decide our elections. They`ve always decided. Voters decide who wins and who loses, period, end of story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Joe Klein; columnist for "Time Magazine", also with us, John Heilemann, managing editor of "Bloomberg Politics" and co- host of "WITH ALL DUE RESPECT" on Msnbc.
And Katie Packer; consultant at Morning Glass Consulting, she`s a former Romney deputy campaign manager and an Msnbc contributor.
Joe, Donald Trump refusing to accept polls, and his staff saying, voter suppression -- actually using the phrase voter suppression, that`s our route.
JOE KLEIN, COLUMNIST, TIME MAGAZINE: Could I -- could I give you a brief history of voter suppression, targeted voter suppression? Because it is a very brief history.
It was invented by Pat Caddell who had a very unlovable candidate, Alan Cranston for Senate, senator in California, and he found out Caddell --
(CROSSTALK)
KLEIN: What? It was --
O`DONNELL: Eighty four --
KLEIN: Eighty three, eighty --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
KLEIN: Four --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
KLEIN: Or something like that. I figured who Cranston was running against, but Caddell and his math genius sort of way figured the only way he could get his guy elected was to make the other guy a complete mess, and it worked.
And after 1984, I think it was, it has become part of the dark arts of political cannon, and it`s disgraceful, and I don`t know if it`s going to work this year, I suspect it won`t.
O`DONNELL: But John Heilemann, voter suppression is also something darker than that, preventing people from actually getting to the polls, preventing them from being recognized as legitimate voters.
When they get to the polls, there`s been a lot of suspicion that Republicans have been up to that, too.
JOHN HEILEMANN, MANAGING EDITOR, BLOOMBERG POLITICS: Yes, and if true, disgraceful and disgusting and appalling. I will tell you though, what the bigger piece of news in my view in that "Bloomberg Business Week" piece is.
Which is that the Trump campaign is doing a lot more polling and data analytics than anybody thought, and they know they`re losing. So, when Donald Trump goes --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
HEILEMANN: Out and says these things on the campaign trail about how he doesn`t believe the polls, the polls are rigged.
His people inside the campaign looking at the numbers say to our reporters, say we`re where Nate Silver is --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
HEILEMANN: Basically --
O`DONNELL: Basically --
HEILEMANN: We know that we`re losing this campaign and that it`s basically over. And that is -- undermines everything Trump is saying on the stump and points to why they are so desperate as they have to turn to voter suppression, because they know there`s no other way.
O`DONNELL: Katie Packer, you`ve worked on campaigns where the staff knows things that sometimes the candidate doesn`t want to face.
I think it`s possible that the staff that`s in that "Bloomberg" piece work, saying very clearly, yes, Nate Silver is right, that`s the same information we have that, that information isn`t getting to Donald Trump?
KATIE PACKER, CONSULTANT, MORNING GLASS CONSULTING: I don`t know what the relationship is that they have with Donald Trump, but he has this unprecedented ability to live in a fantasy world that I`ve never seen in a major party candidate before.
You know, I had a nephew who used to think he was Batman. He didn`t just love Batman, he thought he was Batman. But he was 4 years old, and he grew out of that.
(LAUGHTER)
So, Donald Trump seems to live in this fantasy world where he doesn`t want to be confronted with reality. But you know, anybody that`s been in politics, that understands what`s going on in these polls knows that Donald Trump has virtually no path to victory today.
And talking about voter suppression is something I`ve never heard in 25 years of campaigns in terms of a legitimate campaign operation. This is really unprecedented.
O`DONNELL: So Joe Klein, he -- Donald Trump has threatened to kill -- to sue -- sorry, he`s threatened -- he`s threatening to sue all of the women accusers that have come out in the last few weeks.
He now tonight threatens to sue Nbc. He doesn`t know how to let this thing go as the campaign proceeds.
KLEIN: Just think what would happen if he won, he`d be so busy with all these lawsuits --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
KLEIN: He wouldn`t be able to form an administration. But the interesting thing about Donald Trump and his lying and his own set of facts -- both of us knew and loved Daniel Patrick Moynihan used to say, you`re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own set of facts.
This year, clearly, as I`ve gone across the country and talked to Trump supporters, they have their own --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
KLEIN: Set of facts --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
KLEIN: As he does. And so it`s not just him lying all the time, it`s him confirming the lies that his supporters believe, and that`s kind of scary.
O`DONNELL: John, what about the reach back? I mean, it`s 20 days ago -- it`s 20 days ago that we first saw the "Access Hollywood" --
HEILEMANN: Yes --
O`DONNELL: Video. And there`s Donald Trump, double underlining it tonight.
HEILEMANN: Well, you know, you`re asked about it by Bill O`Reilly and he`s never had any discipline about staying away from any bait that`s thrown on the water, right? He`s --
O`DONNELL: You know --
HEILEMANN: The trout that rises and jumps out of the stream and tries to grab the bait. But again, I`ll go back to this "Bloomberg Business Week" piece.
This whole thing, we look at him and the way he`s behaving, we say this is not the way you win a presidential election.
O`DONNELL: Right --
HEILEMANN: Well, he knows he`s losing and he`s not trying to win a presidential election anymore. He`s --
O`DONNELL: OK --
HEILEMANN: Trying to --
O`DONNELL: So, wait, let me just get this straight. You`re of the school that Donald Trump himself knows that he`s losing --
HEILEMANN: Yes --
O`DONNELL: And he`s planning --
HEILEMANN: Oh, absolutely --
O`DONNELL: For November 9th that involves something other than the presidency.
HEILEMANN: Again, and the -- and the piece reports this very well. The data operations are now all about consolidating a list, e-mail addresses, contacts, so that you can take that and monetize it afterward.
And there is a very conscious effort now to say, we`re all about now riling up our base, not trying to win, get the most upset as possible and then convert those people into eyeballs and clicks on the other side of election day.
O`DONNELL: To accomplish what?
KLEIN: Well, there are all these media opportunities out there for him.
O`DONNELL: That`s what I mean, by eyeballs and clicks --
KLEIN: People think that he`s going to --
PACKER: Well, it`s the theme of his --
KLEIN: You know, I have this thought today --
PACKER: TV show, money.
KLEIN: Maybe his target isn`t to start a new political network. Maybe his target is to take over "Spike TV" or something like that and make that the Trump network. You know, some place where testosterone rules.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what he said today about how he will define winning and losing and whether he will concede that he`s lost. Let`s listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: If she wins, if she gets the kind of win that President Obama got, more than 300 electoral votes, several million in the popular vote, will you accept that --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yes, said that many times, I`ll make that decision at the right time. I mean, don`t worry about it, I`ll make the decision at the right time. But we have a rigged system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Katie, how do you translate that answer tonight?
PACKER: Yes, I mean, it`s just a further attempt to ignite controversy. What Donald Trump is very good at is never, ever taking real responsibility for his words, for his actions, for his failures in any way.
And so, he just tries to leave the door open to say, this wasn`t my fault, I didn`t lose, I didn`t fail. There must be some other power at play here, and that`s what he`s trying to do.
But I mean, that kind of an electoral vote landslide isn`t going to be explained by a rigged system.
O`DONNELL: We are looking at polls tonight that we haven`t seen in a long time involving Democrats. The Republican is one point ahead of the Democrat in Georgia, Joe.
We haven`t seen that in a generation. In Texas, the Republican is three points ahead of the Democrat. Georgia, it seems to me to be the first state to watch on election night.
Because if Hillary Clinton loses that state, even by less than five, it tells you that she`s really on her way. If she comes out ahead, that there`s just nothing else to talk about --
KLEIN: I would say North Carolina more so than that. I mean, I`d be surprised, it would be interesting if she won Georgia. But if she loses North Carolina, I mean, I am not conceding this election yet.
O`DONNELL: Yes --
KLEIN: It isn`t over -- it won`t even be over when it`s over.
O`DONNELL: No, I agree --
KLEIN: Because --
O`DONNELL: This is not over --
KLEIN: Because we`ll still have this guy to deal with on November 9th.
HEILEMANN: Yes, but to your point, Lawrence --
KLEIN: Yes --
HEILEMANN: It is the case, she can win North Carolina by one, and there`ll still be tight states for the rest of the night.
O`DONNELL: Right --
HEILEMANN: If she wins Georgia, it`s a landslide --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
HEILEMANN: She`s going to be --
O`DONNELL: OK --
HEILEMANN: Over --
O`DONNELL: That`s what I --
HEILEMANN: She`s going to be over --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
HEILEMANN: Four hundred electoral votes --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
HEILEMANN: If she wins Georgia.
O`DONNELL: Yes, that`s what I mean. Katie, get in on this. What`s the first --
(CROSSTALK)
What`s the first state you`re going to be looking at to tell you what the rest of them is going to do?
PACKER: Well, I think North Carolina is a really important one. But I also think that Ohio is a state that everybody`s been looking at as a state that Trump could have a pickup. It would be a state that Mitt Romney lost in 2012, so it would be an improvement over 2012.
And everybody has been sort of looking at that as the state that he had a real opportunity because of the working class white men that, you know, supposedly are going to save his candidacy. And I think if he falls short in Ohio, I think the dominoes just fall from there.
O`DONNELL: All right, that`s the last word on the campaign for this segment. But Joe, quickly, before we go, you`ve been on more campaign plans than anybody in the building. How many rough landings have you had on campaign planning?
KLEIN: There was one time I landed with Jerry Brown on a small plane that -- where the flaps weren`t working --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
KLEIN: That was exciting, but usually they`re pretty good.
O`DONNELL: Yes!
KLEIN: But I -- you know, I`ve been on --
O`DONNELL: Sliding off the runway at LaGuardia in the rain --
KLEIN: Oh, 11 campaigns --
O`DONNELL: Yes, miss --
KLEIN: I`m still doing it --
O`DONNELL: OK --
KLEIN: Enough of it already --
O`DONNELL: All right, John Heilemann --
PACKER: Usually, we vet the pilots --
O`DONNELL: That`s right, Katie Packer, thank you, thank you all for joining us tonight, really appreciate it.
PACKER: Thanks, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Coming up next, Melania Trump today once again has said that she wants Donald Trump to sue all the women who have accused him of sexual assault.
Attorney Gloria Allred who was representing three of those accusers will join us next to respond. And later, we`re going to go inside the Trump bunker.
A report of what Steve Bannon is planning on November 9th after this election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I just spoke to our future vice president, and he`s OK, did you know he was in a big accident with a plane? The plane skidded off the runway and was pretty close to grave, grave danger.
But I just spoke to Mike Pence, and he`s fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: That was Donald Trump just a short time ago commenting on Mike Pence`s plane skidding off the runway at LaGuardia.
It wasn`t a big accident. One runway at LaGuardia Airport remains closed indefinitely now after that accident. No one on board was injured.
The NTSB will investigate what caused that situation. Mike Pence tweeted, "so thankful everyone on our plane is safe, grateful for our first responders and the concern and prayers of so many.
Back on the trail tomorrow." Hillary Clinton issued a personal tweet saying, "glad to hear Mike Pence`s staff, Secret Service and the crew are all safe, signed H."
We are very glad that Vaughn Hillyard is safe. Vaughn Hillyard is the Nbc News campaign reporter who was on that plane. Vaughn, I know you were just on with Rachel talking about this.
But, you know, every landing at LaGuardia is a little -- you never feel good until that plane stops at LaGuardia --
VAUGHN HILLYARD, NBC NEWS: Sure.
O`DONNELL: But tonight, wet runway, and did it feel -- did you know this was bad? At what point did you feel it was bad?
HILLYARD: We came into Marine Air terminal, and the crazy part of it is we`ve been on the Pence plane now for a little bit more than three months.
And we`ve come to realize that rough landings are a usual thing. And earlier, we landed in Fort Dodge, Iowa, and we actually kind of bounced back up into the air. You can even see the sky, the blue sky again as we brace for this, and it`s always sort of --
O`DONNELL: And that was in good weather?
HILLYARD: That was in clear-sky, Iowa weather. And so, we always -- we`ve joked about, you know, at what point are we going to go out --
O`DONNELL: And it`s the same pilot all the time?
HILLYARD: I`m not sure --
O`DONNELL: OK --
HILLYARD: I`m not sure. And I know we have rotating pilots, we did see the --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
HILLYARD: People coming in, had different crews, they`ve always been very good to us, it`s good to work with, you know, from the campaign, and you got the Secret Service for about ten rows.
And you`ve got the press, there was about eight of us on the plane in the back. And so tonight, we were going through the clouds, so, the plane was already delayed. And then we come through --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
HILLYARD: The clouds, go through the rain, you hit, we bounce, about two, three seconds, and then that`s when the swerve takes place.
We sort of go off to the right and we`re just thinking this is so typical and so we come to a hard stop. You look out the window, there`s a -- you can see the gas station, you know, maybe 50 --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
HILLYARD: Hundred yards away, you can see the fence, and you`re like, holy cow --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
HILLYARD: The smell of rubber comes up --
O`DONNELL: Right --
HILLYARD: And you`re like, OK, we`re used to rough landings, but the smell of rubber --
O`DONNELL: Wow --
HILLYARD: Doesn`t usually come up --
O`DONNELL: Now, I know exactly where you ended up. And this is also Mike Pence could do "MORNING JOE" tomorrow.
HILLYARD: It offers "MORNING JOE" --
O`DONNELL: Right --
HILLYARD: He`s dedicated --
O`DONNELL: All right, fundraisers tonight, "MORNING JOE" tomorrow --
HILLYARD: Exactly.
O`DONNELL: Vaughn Hillyard, we`re very glad that you are among the safe, really --
HILLYARD: Thank you --
O`DONNELL: Glad to have you here --
HILLYARD: Thank you --
O`DONNELL: Thanks, really appreciate it. Coming up next, Attorney Gloria Allred, she`s representing three of the women who have accused Donald Trump of sexual assault. She will now respond to the new threats of litigation by Donald Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Thirteen days ago, the Trump campaign promised to release evidence that would prove all the women who have accused Donald Trump of sexual assault are lying. All of them.
Thirteen days later, the Trump campaign has released no evidence about any of those accusations. And now, with just 11 days left in the presidential campaign, a 12th woman has come forward accusing Donald Trump of grabbing her.
Ninni Laaksonen, Miss Finland, 2006 told a Finnish newspaper that Donald Trump grabbed her moments before she appeared on the "Late Show" with David Letterman with three other Miss Universe contestants.
Donald Trump owned the Miss Universe pageant at that time. Nbc News hasn`t confirmed these new allegations. She also told a Finnish newspaper, "somebody told me there that Trump liked me because I looked like Melania when she was younger.
It left me disgusted." In an interview taped before the latest accusations from the former Miss Finland, Melania Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They were -- they were lies. And as I said before, all the accusations, they should be handled in a court of law.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you believe the lawsuit should go forward?
TRUMP: Yes, I believe that, and because to accuse somebody without evidence, it`s very hurtful, and it`s very damaging and unfair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The lawsuits that George Stephanopoulos referred to of course were the ones that Donald Trump threatened to sue all of his accusers.
Attorney Gloria Allred represents three of those accusers. She`s also a Hillary Clinton supporter and was a California delegate to the Democratic National Convention. Gloria Allred joins us now.
Gloria Allred, thank you very much for joining us tonight --
GLORIA ALLRED, LAWYER: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: What was your reaction to this threat again today, issued now by both Donald Trump and Melania Trump of suing your clients and all of the accusers of Donald Trump.
ALLRED: Well, Lawrence, he is threatening to sue the "New York Times", the accusers that accused him of assaulting them. The Nbc, and God knows who else he`s planning to sue.
But I guess he doesn`t want to take responsibility for what his own words were on the "Access Hollywood" tapes. This is ridiculous. Has he never heard of the First Amendment?
Has he never heard of free speech? There are so many people who come to this country because they want to be able to exercise the free speech that they cannot exercise in many parts of the world.
In fact, if they do exercise it and criticizing a president or even someone who might wish to be president, they face possible arrests, possible prosecution. We have that wonderful First Amendment to the United States constitution, free speech.
And Mr. Trump has to understand that he should not be threatening anyone who just displeases him, criticizes him -- he needs to get over it.
Let him give his defense without bullying his way into the White House and then spending his time, if God forbid, he gets there.
Sitting in depositions as you just said, with all of the people that he`s sued. I mean, how is he going to deal with any major crisis of our nation if there is one.
If he`s sitting in a deposition and trying to defend the lawsuits which by the way might be filed against him or if he does file against the women, would he -- might face a lawsuit.
Then a cross complaint, because he`s alleged actions that are -- he`s alleged that they have defamed him, and they may allege that he defamed them by calling them liars, by saying that their claims are fabrication, that it`s fiction. Be careful what you wish for, Mr. Trump, because you might just get it.
O`DONNELL: Let me get your reaction to this latest threat just issued within the last hour and a half of suing Nbc for the release of the "Access Hollywood" video. Can you see any cause of action in that?
ALLRED: Well, you know, I don`t know what all the true facts are, Lawrence, and I certainly don`t get my facts from Donald Trump, given the list of lies that he has said about so many people.
They`re all listed on the internet. I mean, just can`t even keep up with them. So, you know, I don`t know whether he knew that his mic was hot.
I don`t know what the contracts say, if anything about whether what he was saying when he was mic`d could be used at any other time. I don`t know how those tapes ultimately became public.
Whether Nbc had anything to do with them, how it came into the possession of someone, these are just unknown facts, so I can`t speculate.
Unlike Donald Trump, unless I have the true facts, I don`t draw conclusions. But I say to Nbc, why don`t you just say game on, Donald Trump?
If that`s what he wants to do, if he wants to fight it out in a lawsuit, OK, well, then he`ll fight it out in a lawsuit.
O`DONNELL: Quickly before you go, what would be your defense strategy if Donald Trump did file one of these lawsuits?
ALLRED: Well, I can tell you that he`s not going to make women cower. Those days of bullying women, and many women still are being bullied at home, in their workplace, in their community, and we`re just not going to take it anymore.
These women, if they are sued by Donald Trump, at least the ones that I represent, we have -- I am going to vigorously defend them.
We have armies of attorneys who are going to be available to even represent perhaps those women that I don`t represent.
There`s going to be a well-funded defense. So, you know, you -- all your attempts to make women cower and fear Mr. Trump are going to be completely unsuccessful.
As to me, as I have said, smarter, richer and more famous people than you, Mr. Trump, have tried to threaten me and failed.
O`DONNELL: You sound eager to get him under oath and a deposition.
ALLRED: It would be my pleasure.
O`DONNELL: Gloria Allred, thank you very much for joining us tonight, really appreciate it.
ALLRED: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Up next, inside the Trump bunker, what Steve Bannon and Donald Trump are planning for November 9th.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC ANCHOR: In a rare interview, Steve Bannon, CEO of the Trump campaign told Bloomberg Business Week, Trump is a builder, and what he`s built is the apparatus for a political movement that going to propel us to victory on November 8th and dominate Republican politics after that. And what if it doesn`t propel Donald Trump to victory on election night will the Trump Machine still dominate Republicans politics after that? Will Donald Trump and his team try to create a new media enterprise? Will they try to create a new political party, an independent party that would wage war on both the Democrat and Republican parties?
As much as Donald Trump wants to deny the validity of all the polls that show him losing. One Trump campaign staffer told Bloomberg Business Week "Nate Silver`s results have been similar to ours," that Trump campaign staffer confirmed that Trump`s own polling shows him losing in the same way that Nate Silver`s projections show Donald Trump losing. So when the Trump campaign looks at those polls, what do they really expect to be doing on November 9th?
The Bloomberg article reports by Election Day, the campaign expects to have captured 12 million to 14 million e-mail addresses and contact information including credit card numbers for 2.5 million small-dollar donors who together will have ponied up almost $275 million. I wouldn`t have come aboard even for Trump if I hadn`t known they were building this massive facebook and data engine, says Bannon. Facebook is what propelled Breitbart to a massive audience. We know its power.
If Hillary Clinton is president and is trying to fill a vacancy on the Supreme Court, what will the Trump/Bannon machine do? What will they tell republicans to do? yesterday Ted Cruz raised the possibility that a Republican Senate will simply never confirm a Supreme Court Justice appointed by President Obama whose latest appointment they`ve delayed for almost a year or by a new President Clinton.
He said there is certainly long historical precedent for a Supreme Court with fewer justices. I would note recently, that Justice Breyer noted that it has not limited the court on doing its job. That`s a debate that we are going to have. Joining us now, Sasha Issenberg a Contributor to Bloomberg Politics who co-wrote that piece Inside the Trump Bunker with 12 days to go. That`s the title of the piece.
And also with us, David Frum, Senior Editor for the Atlantic. Sasha so much amazing reporting. As you know we`ve already talked about that in the beginning of the show, your article tonight. But this -- this massive database that they have built, isn`t there now some dispute as to who owns that information? What is owned by the Republican Party and what is owned by the Trump Campaign and owned by Donald Trump?
SASHA ISSENBERG, CONTRIBUTOR TO BLOOMBERG POLITICS: Yes, there are a few different types of data and a few different lists. And they have sort of different providences and different ownership. There`s that approximately 2.5 million small donors you mentioned. They gave money jointly to the RNC and trump campaign, and both entities have access to those names.
There`s another list that the Trump Campaign estimates will be another 10 million or so names by Election Day. These are people who haven`t given money but have signed up, given an e-mail address or cell phone number for mobile communication. These are supporters who`ve signed up as activists. The Trump Campaign alone paid to advertise and build that list. And our understanding is that the Trump Campaign owns that list and the RNC has no claim to it.
O`DONNELL: David Frum, I don`t want to suggest that this campaign is over, that this election is over. There`s a distinct possibility Donald Trump could win this. It`s still present. But, for the moment, let`s anticipate a world in which Donald Trump doesn`t win, and you have this team together, with all this information that they`ve gathered. In political terms, what would you expect them to use it for? Would you expect them for example to insists that if it`s a Republican Senate no Supreme Court Justice gets confirmed for four years?
DAVID FRUM, SENIOR EDITOR, ATLANTIC: Well I want to honor Sasha`s amazing reporting. It`s not a criticism in any of him and his work to suggest that his sources are deluding themselves about the power of what they`ve put together. When Donald, should he lose and should he lose as big as he`s going to, there is going to be a scorched earth period of recrimination and Donald Trump will be the target of the recriminations and the people around him will be the target of the recrimination.
And as we discover in the weeks and months after the election how much self-dealing has been in the campaign, how badly the campaign was run, and how even before it was over how everyone was preparing their parachutes and their post elections strategies. There`s going to be a revulsion in the Republicans Party against this crew. I don`t think they`re going to have the clout they imagine they`ll have even organizing for America President Obama extraordinary effort after it was successful cease to be powerful. Now imagine how much more true that it`s going to be of people were unsuccessful. I think we will discover we`re in a new terrain with new face and new personalities and new issues driven by oppositions to the Hillary Clinton Administration should there be one.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what John McCain said in a radio interview about the Supreme Court.
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JOHN MCCAIN, SENIOR UNITED STATES SENATOR, ARIZONA: I promise you, that we will, we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president will put up. I promise you.
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O`DONNELL: Sasha, the reason I wanted every one to hear that is I don`t see any difference between Ted Cruz and John McCain on this issue. And I think we know where a Breitbart inspired Trump entity would be on issues like that if there is a Clinton Presidency.
ISSENBERG: That may be so, although Steve Boannon seems to have the greatest enmity towards republican leaders, especially Paul Ryan and seems to enjoy sort of zagging against the Republican establishment when other Republicans are I guess zigging againts Democrats in power. And so whatever form this is sort of post Trump enterprise takes whether it`s a media organization or some sort of political institution I wouldn`t necessarily think it would be a dogmatic ancillary to, you know, existing Republicans institutions in Washington. I think Bannon has proved that he sees the market niche doing something different. And that`s often being at odds with other Republican leaders and their priorities.
O`DONNELL: David Frum, Rush Limbaugh loses a lot of elections I mean as a cheerleader. He ends up being the cheerleader for losers. He`s certainly lost the last two Presidential elections. He doesn`t seem to lose any influence through that process. And if Donald Trump is more in the Rush Limbaugh mold than in the Romney mold or, you know, the mold of previous losers of presidential races, it seems to me that Donald Trump would be able to wield whatever power Rush Limbaugh continues to wield.
FRUM: I just don`t agree with that. Donald Trump promised that he`d win so much that we`d be sick of winning. After three defeats, if that`s what happens, we`re going to be really sick of losing. And I think Republicans are going to start to do the things they need to do in order to win. Now that doesn`t mean there won`t be an amazing fight over the Supreme Court nomination. I mean one of the things that is at issue. President Obama has issued a series of executive orders amounting to kind of an immigration amnesty that all conservatives even John McCain think is lawless and if the wrong person is appointed to the Supreme Court, they may ratify those executive orders.
And even people who agree with the underlying policy I want to say y this is an unconscionable way to do it. And many Conservatives of course including myself disagree with underlying policy. So we`re going to have a big fight over that.
We`re going to have a lot of fights. Aand as those fighting progress, new leaders will come to the floor, more competent than Donald Trump, and they will build a national constituency.
O`DONNELL: Sasha Issenberg and David Frum thank you very much for joining us tonight, really appreciate it.
ISSENBERG: Thanks Lawrence.
FRUM: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: More than 2 million votes have already been cast in Florida. 2 million votes already cast in Florida. We will go inside the Campaigns War Room toight with a Florida Strategist who helped President Obama win Florida twice. And remember, without Florida, a Donald Trump victory is absolutely mathematically impossible. So, in the immortal words of Tim Russert, it is once again, Florida, Florida, Florida.
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O`DONNELL: Time for tonight`s Campaign War Room. 11 days. that`s all that`s left. Each day now becomes twice as intense as the day before in the Campaign War Rooms. They know that much of the election is already out of their control because so many people have already voted. They voted early. More Republican affiliated voters have cast ballots in three states, Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania. A more democratic affiliated voters have cast ballots in eight states, Coloradom Iowam Michigan, North Carolina, Nevada, Ohio, Virginia and Wisconsin,
And in one state, Florida, the two parties are tied in early voting. With 11 days left for the Presidential Campaign War Room, joining us tonight in the last word war room is Steve Shale, Democratic Strategist and the Former State Director for the Obama 2008 and senior adviser for the Obama 2012 Campaigns. Steve, thank you very much for joining us. So I want to take a quick look at the latest Florida polls.
We have Hillary Clinton at 43with Donald Trump at 39 in the latest poll that`s been released down there, another one yesterday, a Florida poll saying Donald Trump 45, Hillary Clinton 43.
What`s your guess about what the truth is right now in these polls?
STEVE SHALE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I mea I think, Lawrence, first of all thanks for having me on. I mean we`ve seen 16 of the last 18 polls, Clinton being ahead or tied. I think five of the last six she`s been up by three or four points. The Bloomberg poll I think was off in a couple of different ways.
It was - first of all it`s way too Republican and it`s waiting. So I mean I think the three to four is about where it is right now.
O`DONNELL: And what do you see as the deciding factors between now and election night in Florida? And given that there`s all this early voting that`s already occurred. It`s a strange thing to talk about in terms of what`s left to do.
SHALE: Yes. Well I mean, first of all, I mean I think as of tonight, I bet you, between 2.8 and 2.9 million votes are in the bag. So, we`re talking about almost a third of the election already over. And what`s good news for Hillary Clinton is the place she needs to do well, places like Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Orlando. We`re seeing really robust turnout.
Almost a hundred thousand votes out of Miami and Broward County today alone. So really she`s keep doing what she`s doing, turning out these unlikely voters but they`re coming out at a pretty decent pace and just blocking and tackling.
O`DONNELL: And in the past elections on Election Day do we know on Election Day whether more votes broke for Republications or more votes broke for Democrats on Election Day?
SHALE: Well so in 2008, Republicans won Election Day by a large margin in part because we`d already won the state.
O`DONNELL: Wow. Yes.
SHALE: I mean we had about 70 to 80 percent of our vote already in. In 2012 I think they won it narrowly. It was a little closer going to Election Day. We probably win it with about 150,000 vote lead, one by 80. So, you know, but at the way it`s trending right now, I think there`s a pretty good chance we`re going to know where this race is by Wednesday or Thursday of next week.
O`DONNELL: Wow. So in the 21st century in Florida it`s all about early voting. Steve Shale, thank you very much -
SHALE: Absolutely.
O`DONNELL: -- for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.
SHALE: Thanks Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, actor and activist Mark Ruffalo will join us, he`s just returned from the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation in North Dakota where there was another major confrontation with police today. We have an NBC news coverage of what happened in North Dakota today coming up.
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O`DONNELL: A dramatic standoff over the construction of an oil pipeline in North Dakota led to 16 more arrests today as a massive police presence from North Dakota and neighboring states confronted the largest Native-American uprising since the United States Army`s wars against the tribes. NBC news Miguel Almaguer has the story.
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MIGUEL ALMAGUER, NBC NEWS NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Tonight near Cannonball, North Dakota, this is the tense face off between an army of police, Native- American protesters blocking highway 1806, trying to shut down construction of a controversial oil pipeline on private land. Officers in armored vehicles wearing riot gear are pouring in with air support. Battle lines drawn, now making arrests.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re trying to avoid the confrontation but they drew the line in the sand today.
ALMAGUER: After setting fires and blocking the bridge in the path of the pipeline, months of tension have escalated. Some promise a fight to the end.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no fear here. We know that we have the moral high ground and that we`re doing what`s right.
ALMAGUER: Miguel Almaguer NBC News.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The Clinton campaign has finally given the Last Word a statement about the protests in North Dakota and the protests today at Clinton campaign headquarters in Brooklyn. Actor Mark Ruffalo joins us next. He`s just back from North Dakota.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let your tribal chairman talk to President Obama, talk to the Federal Government. Let`s engage in the courts. Let`s engage in the right way to do this and not take over somebody else`s land.
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O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Mark Ruffalo, he`s an activist and academy award-nominated actors for his roles in Spotlight and Fox Chaser. He visited Standing Rock Sioux tribe protesters. You just got back yesterday Mark? Today?
MARK RUFFALO, AMERICAN ACTOR: Last night.
O`DONNELL: You just heard what the police said. Negotiate, talk to the president. Talk to -- we`ve been trying for weeks to get a response out of Hillary Clinton which we finally did today but it`s not easy to get people engaged on this.
RUFFALO: No, it`s not. It`s been tough to get folks down there, the media down there to see what`s happening, it`s been going on since April. But in response to what he`s saying is the Department of Interior, the DOJ. And the army corps of engineers told the construction company to stop working. They`ve asked them to voluntarily stop so that we can negotiate it. And what happens?
They`re clearing the lands so they can just keep pushing through until they get to the water.
O`DONNELL: What is the tension level like out there? When I was out there they didn`t have these militarized troops out there as it is, you know, the military-style vehicles.
RUFFALO: You know, so the governor, Governor Dalrymple basically created a state of emergency. These are -- most of the people there are young people. The people who started this are young people. You had one of them. You had Gracey on last night. They`re young people, 15-year-old kids, girls, getting maced in the face today, rubber bullets hitting their faces today.
Young people in prayer, all of them taught to be peaceful protesters, they`re trained for it, right? There`s a rubber bullet in the face. These are young people. And -- and what`s happening is the governor calls a state of emergency, brings the national guard in, kicks off this new law, which allows, when someone calls a state of emergency, to bring in out of state police forces to come in and police in-state citizens.
And -- and when you create a state of emergency like that, everyone`s on edge. They think it`s an emergency. You -- the police think it`s an emergency. The national guard thinks it`s an emergency. So what do you do in an emergency? You bring in tanks with 50-caliber machine guns on them, you have cops standing around with AR-15s at roadblocks, you know?
And it`s this escalation of aggressive and really antagonistic violence towards these peaceful protesters. These people are --
O`DONNELL: The chairman of the tribe, Dave Archambault who was here last night - RUFFALO: Right.
O`DONNELL: -- flew back early today because of this situation and the tenstions that developed today and the new round of arrests.
RUFFALO: These are his people. The children, they asked the young people to leave today. They said no, we`re going to fight for our lives. We`re going to fight for our water. This is a second genocide for us.
We`ve already been through this. We waited for the Federal Government to be there for us, and now they`re letting us down again. And so, they`re broken. I was talking -- I met all these young people. I`ve looked in their eyes. I knew what their intent was. They`re not there to hurt anybody. They`re there to protect their land.
O`DONNELL: And some of them went out to Hillary Clinton`s campaign office today. I think we may have some video of that, trying to get a response from the Clinton campaign about it. They had trouble delivering their letter to the Clinton campaign.
There they are in the campaign office, but eventually, the letter got through. The Clinton campaign released a statement tonight saying we received the letter today from representatives of the tribes. There is no real position revealed here. It ends with the Clinton campaign statement saying it`s important that on the ground in North Dakota everyone respects demonstrator`s rights to protest peacefully and worker`s rights to do their jobs safely. So that doesn`t clarify much about where a possible President Clinton would stand.
RUFFALO: No. And, you know, right now, if you went to the 1851 treaty, the land treaty, this land belongs to the natives, and the -
O`DONNELL: Treaty that we violated.
RUFFALO: A treaty that we violated several, several, several times. This land belongs to the natives and all President Obama has to do is basically with the stroke of a pen say that easement belongs to the natives, back off. The interesting story that no one is talking about is all these young people who were at Hillary`s office who were on the front line, who started this movement, all met with Obama two years ago.
O`DONNELL: Yes. Yes.
RUFFALO: And he promised to protect them. He took them to the White House.
O`DONNELL: And the president has done what we could. He stopped the construction and the army corps of engineers controlled that. He did what he could.
RUFFALO: Yes.
O`DONNELL: The question for the Clinton campaign is what might the next president do?
RUFFALO: Right. So, we know where Bernie came out on this.
O`DONNELL: Bernie Sanders opposed to it.
RUFFALO: Just came out because we know where he`s going to come out. And we`re waiting to hear from Clinton`s to have a definitive answer of what`s going to happen here. They can go around -- this pipeline does not have to go through here. Every other pipeline in the state goes another route.
O`DONNELL: You`ve gone in a lot of protests sites overtime. What was it like to be there?
RUFFALO: I have been, I`ve been in a lot of protests. I`ve never been in one that was so moving, determined, respectful, solemn, loving and kind. It was, I was at occupy Wall Street, I was at the Keystone pipeline, I was here in New York state as we fought against fracking. And I`ve never been around such a decent group of people.
O`DONNELL: That was my experience out there too. Mark thank you very much.
RUFFALO: Sure. Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Really appreciate it. That`s it for the Last Word tonight, The 11 Hour with Brian Williams is live, and it is next.
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