Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL Date: October 11, 2016 Guest: Jonathan Swan, Charlie Sykes, Eugene Robinson, Simon Rosenberg ; Katie Packer, Rick Wilson, Tara Dowdell
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, CHAIRMAN & PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATIONS & REPUBLICAN PARTY NOMINEE, 2016 ELECTION: Make sure you get out and vote, November 28th.
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RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: November 28th, get out and vote, a cool 20 days after the election is over. Make your voice heard, or it will be an asterisk. That does it for us tonight, we will see you again tomorrow, now, it`s time they jack you up.
Now, it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good evening, Lawrence.
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Rachel, I was planning to take November 28th off.
MADDOW: Well --
O`DONNELL: Has something changed?
MADDOW: There`s going to be a lot of hot Trump action in Florida that day, so, at least, keep your beeper on.
O`DONNELL: All right --
MADDOW: Thanks, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Will do that, thank you, Rachel. A woman who was a participant on Donald Trump`s show "The Apprentice" will join us tonight and tell us what she heard and how she felt behind the scenes with Donald Trump.
But first, does anyone know exactly where Johnny Knoxville is tonight? Because it sure feels like he`s running the Trump campaign.
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TRUMP: I don`t think I`m that outspoken to be honest with you, Bill --
BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: Oh, come on! --
TRUMP: I think I`m not outspoken --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s attacking Paul Ryan.
TRUMP: I don`t want his support, I don`t care about his support.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s attacking John McCain.
TRUMP: John McCain who has probably the dirtiest mouth in all of --
O`REILLY: Well, he`s --
TRUMP: The Senate --
O`REILLY: I don`t know what good it does to trash people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s running an ad --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: North Korea threatening, ISIS on the rise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s like apocalypse now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There seem to be an island --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under themselves almost.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re watching the split of the Republican Party.
MIKE PENCE, REPUBLICAN PARTY NOMINEE FOR VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IN 2016 ELECTION: I think it`s important that we let Trump be Trump.
TRUMP: I`ll compare my IQ with anybody, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s in his best interest, the interest of the country, party, his family, that he withdraw.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Why did it take so long for some of them to finally do walk away? I mean, we saw this coming.
TRUMP: Locker room talk, if that`s what it`s going to take to lose an election, that will be pretty sad.
OBAMA: He`s just going to transform himself? I mean, I`m 55, and it`s hard for me to change, I know at 70, it`s going to be harder.
(LAUGHTER)
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O`DONNELL: Today at 8:16 a.m., the Trump campaign became the jackass campaign. Jackass was the "MTV" series created by Johnny Knoxville that premiered in 2000 to the delight of every teenage boy in America.
The show was a hit, and they managed to turn it into a few jackass movies. The TV series and the movies were a bunch of guys not much older than teenagers doing crazy and dangerous things just to get our attention.
They weren`t trying to win Emmys. They weren`t trying to win respect. They weren`t trying to win anything. They were just trying to have fun, their kind of fun; reckless, destructive fun. And that`s why the Trump campaign is now the jackass campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNNY KNOXVILLE, ACTOR: Hello, my name is Johnny Knoxville, and I`m about to end this movie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?
(EXPLOSION)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Donald Trump is both the Johnny Knoxville and the Stevo of the Trump campaign. What Johnny Knoxville, he is the star of his campaign and he is the creator of his campaign.
But Johnny Knoxville himself often avoided being the victim of their truly horrible stunts. When it was time to put someone in a fully-loaded port-a- potty and turn it upside down, that was Stevo`s job.
Stevo was the one who came out covered in the contents of the port-a-potty while Johnny Knoxville stood there laughing out at the rest of the guys.
It is Donald Trump who is now covered in the contents of the port-a-potty that Steve Bannon and the other teenage boys running the Trump campaign have turned upside down.
Reports have it that Steve Bannon is at Trump Tower laughing at the Republican Party just as much as Johnny Knoxville always laughed at everything Stevo did.
And it will be Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway and the rest of the gang at Trump Tower who will be laughing on the sidelines the night Donald Trump gives his concession speech at what might be a relatively early hour for that sort of thing on election night.
But then again, Steve Bannon and the guys might just decide it`s even funnier if Donald Trump doesn`t give a concession speech, just never admits to losing.
No one`s ever done that, and that`s all the jackass guys ever had to hear, no one`s ever done that. As soon as they heard that they wanted to do it. And that seems to be where we are with the Trump campaign.
The Trump campaign war room seems to have a list of what to do next. And it is simply the list of everything that no one has ever done in a presidential campaign.
No one who is actually trying to win the presidency. And so, they get in fights with the presidential debate commission about who can sit where at the debate.
The debate commission has never been in that fight before. But the jackass guys have never run a campaign before. And no presidential candidate has ever gotten in public fights with the leader of his or her party in Washington.
Donald Trump has done that repeatedly with Paul Ryan, and today was the final explosion. If you thought the final explosion was yesterday when Paul Ryan said he would not defend Donald Trump or campaign with him, you were wrong. Because of course the jackass boys were not going to let Paul Ryan have the last word on that.
And so, at 8:16 a.m., when Donald Trump was no doubt out of bed, surrounded by the jackass gang, looking over his shoulder, he tweeted, "despite winning the second debate in a landslide, every poll, it is hard to do well when Paul Ryan and others give zero support."
Of course, there is no real poll showing Donald Trump winning the second debate. All the real polls show Donald Trump got trounced again in the second debate.
"Cnn" says Hillary Clinton won 57 or 34, Nbc says she won 44 to 34. At 9:05 a.m., Johnny Knoxville -- I mean, Donald Trump tweeted "our very weak and infective leader Paul Ryan had a bad conference call where his members went wild at his disloyalty."
Here`s what no one in the jackass campaign understands. Only one of two people is going to be the next speaker of the house, Paul Ryan or Nancy Pelosi.
The next president is going to have to deal with one of them as speaker of the house. And that speaker will be able to control every piece of legislation that is voted on in committees or on the floor of the house.
You cannot pass anything in the House of Representatives without the speaker of the house. The other thing no one in the jackass campaign understands is that the only congressional parliamentary procedure that is actually specified in the constitution is that all tax legislation must begin in the House of Representatives.
Donald Trump has some ideas about taxation. And if he is president, then Nancy Pelosi is speaker of the house, he won`t get one cent until his tax bill pass.
But if Paul Ryan is speaker of the house, the Trump tax plan is completely dead on arrival and the Ryan tax plan will take its place. And that one might not be as friendly to Donald Trump.
In fact, everything Donald Trump has talked about that he would like to do as president is dead on arrival in Washington now. Even Bill O`Reilly seems to understand that, almost understand it.
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O`REILLY: President, you`re going to need McCain, and you`re going to need Ryan. You`re going to need these guys.
TRUMP: They`ll be there, they`ll be there.
O`REILLY: And you think they`re going to all cooperate with you after you`re trashing them?
TRUMP: I get along -- I know you don`t believe this, well, I get along with you for 20 years, I guess I can get along with anybody, frankly --
O`REILLY: All right --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Donald Trump has renewed his attacks on Senator John McCain, now that Senator McCain has said he will not vote for Donald Trump.
And tonight, Donald Trump used the worst choice of cliche he could possibly have chosen to describe how he feels about John McCain.
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TRUMP: He was begging for my endorsement --
O`REILLY: I know --
TRUMP: People are calling, his friends are calling --
O`REILLY: Be the bigger man --
TRUMP: And then the first sign of a little bit of difficulty, he unendorses --
O`REILLY: All right --
TRUMP: I wouldn`t want to be in a fox hole with a lot of these people, that I can tell you.
O`REILLY: Well, McCain is a brave man or --
TRUMP: Including Ryan --
O`REILLY: He`s a brave man, McCain --
TRUMP: And by the way, including Ryan, especially Ryan --
O`REILLY: I got that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Donald Trump is like most of us. He wouldn`t want to be in a fox hole at all with anyone. He never has been in a fox hole, not in basic training in the military, not in war.
John McCain served honorably and bravely in the war of his era while Donald Trump spent his nights in New York nightclubs. John McCain spent his days and nights as a tortured prisoner of war in Vietnam.
The one thing -- the one thing Donald Trump said today that you can believe is that he wouldn`t want to be in a fox hole with John McCain. Joining us now, Rick Wilson, Republican strategist and contributor to the website "Heat Street".
And Katie Packer; a former deputy campaign manager for Romney 2012 and an Msnbc contributor. Katie, just when you think they cannot get crazier, they find a way.
KATIE PACKER, FORMER DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER, MITT ROMNEY 2012: It`s really unbelievable. I mean, I thought I had seen everything from the Trump team.
I`ve never seen a Republican nominee openly attack the Republican speaker of the house who has approval ratings among Republicans about twice as high as his.
It`s unbelievable to me, and Paul Ryan is just one of the best men I`ve ever known in politics. And his patience with this is admirable, but I don`t know how long it`s going to last.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to more of what Donald Trump said on O`Reilly tonight about Paul Ryan.
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O`REILLY: All right --
TRUMP: The fact is that I think we should get support, and we don`t get the support from guys like Paul Ryan. He had a conference call yesterday with congressmen with hundreds of them, and they practically rioted against him on the phone.
One person stuck up for him, so, I`m just tired of non-support. And I don`t really want his support. You know, if he calls now and wants to -- this happens all the time. If you sneeze, he calls up and announces, isn`t that a terrible thing?
So, look, I don`t want his support, I don`t care about his support.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Rick Wilson, this riot on the phone is something apparently only Donald Trump knows about.
RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Apparently so. I`ve talked to a couple of members that were on the call, and I -- and while apparently, there were a few people that were a little testy, it was hardly a riot.
And Donald Trump`s leaving off the most important part, although Paul Ryan is still, and I think mistakenly saying he backs Trump, he basically gave his members a free pass to run like hell.
And many of them are in a posture right now where they`re waiting for the next shoe to drop, which we know it will. And we`re waiting for the next - - for the next -- we know, madcap Trumpism to put them all on the spot.
Whether he`s joking about rape or sexual assault or whatever he`s going to do next, these guys are nervous as hell, and they recognize that he`s dragging the ticket down very severely now across the country.
O`DONNELL: And in one of his crazy tweets this morning, he said, "it is so nice to have -- that the shackles have been taken off me and I can now fight for America the way I want to."
(LAUGHTER)
Katie, none of us really saw those shackles, it`s hard to imagine what -- even he thinks he was talking about.
PACKER: Well, look, this is a guy that maybe didn`t get enough spankings when he was a kid. I don`t know, but he never learned to take any responsibility for his own actions.
I think if he sneezed, I think that Paul Ryan would say God bless you. But the guy basically bragged about sexually assaulting women and he expects Paul Ryan and the rest of the Republican elected officials and candidates on the ballot this Fall to sit there and pledge their loyalty to him?
And I mean, he`s insane. That`s the only explanation for this. He`s actually insane.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to Kelly O`Donnell talking to Mike Pence today about this party in crisis.
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PENCE: Paul Ryan is my friend, but yes, I respectfully disagree with his focus in this campaign. I think it`s important that we let Trump be Trump.
KELLY O`DONNELL, JOURNALIST: Is the party in crisis?
PENCE: I think -- I think the country is in a lot of trouble right now.
O`DONNELL: But Republicans --
PENCE: But I don`t -- I don`t find my --
O`DONNELL: Are fighting Republicans in this race? --
PENCE: I don`t find myself thinking a whole lot about party right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Rick, that last line sounded true that he doesn`t find himself thinking about the party right now.
WILSON: No, he`s thinking about the Trump party, and that`s the party he`s a member of now. And unfortunately, that`s the party that many people who have endorsed Donald Trump are going to be stuck with going forward.
He`s killed the Republican Party in a lot of meaningful ways. He`s driven a lot of Republicans of good faith away from -- away from the party. And he`s hurting the down-ballot races rather severely now.
And they`re looking for conservative alternatives, howbeit, it`s gotten to be a very difficult position to be in. And look, I mean, Mike Pence, I feel for the guy because you can see the look on his face that he knows he`s lost his soul, and he feels every minute of it.
And he knows that Trump can do something even more mortifying and embarrassing at any given time. You know, I won`t be surprised if Donald Trump walks out of the next debate butt-naked except for a gold (INAUDIBLE) Speedo.
And this guy is absolutely off his rails.
O`DONNELL: Now, let`s listen to what Rush Limbaugh, Trump fan Rush Limbaugh said today about this crisis in the Republican Party.
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RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO HOST: They`re ignoring their own voters. Trump is winning not because of talk radio, not because of this or that.
Trump is winning because people that vote Republican have been let down and disappointed one too many times.
And their instinct is being borne out here. The Republican Party is not interested in winning. It clearly is not interested in winning.
It -- and if you want to even be more specific than that, it is paramountly obvious, that they`re not even interested in defeating the Democrats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Katie, twice there, Rush Limbaugh said Trump is winning. Now, which one of us is going to tell Rush that Trump actually is not winning?
PACKER: Well, if all you read is "Breitbart" and "Drudge", then Trump is winning.
O`DONNELL: OK --
PACKER: Because that`s what they keep telling these guys. But you know, he`s just as delusional as the rest of them. He`s not winning. He`s badly losing.
I just saw a poll today that show Trump down 30 to 40 points with women. You know, a group that Mitt Romney lost by 12 points and still lost the general election.
These guys don`t understand the problem that is on their hands, and their problem is not the establishment Republicans. The reason that they`re not winning is their candidate.
Their candidate that`s driving the kinds of voters that they need to win general elections into Hillary Clinton`s arms.
O`DONNELL: And Rick, when you hear -- I mean, that video, when you hear Rush Limbaugh saying Trump is winning. That has to be the kind of talk that`s gone on inside Trump Tower.
WILSON: Well, look, I mean, you know, Steve Bannon and the crew that are around Donald Trump right now, you know, it`s almost too ripe to be parodied with the classic Hitler video.
Because these guys are telling him one thing and he is going out there and acting on that, and it is completely divergent from reality and everyone knows it.
This is a guy who`s about to get beat like a rented mule, and he doesn`t understand it. And so, I think guys like Rush actually are being very cynical.
They`re trying to set this thing up so they can say to their audiences in November, oh, it was stolen from you by the evil rhinos and the -- and the -- and the Republican consultants.
They`re the ones that hurt Donald Trump -- oh, then you know, they`re the ones who took this away from him. When in fact it is of course, you know, rape aficionado.
Donald Trump and groper-in-chief Donald Trump who says things, does things and believes things that are repugnant to the American people.
O`DONNELL: Well, I have a new model now for what is the Trump campaign going to do next, and that is, what will Johnny Knoxville do next? That`s my model for those guys.
(LAUGHTER)
Katie Packer and Rick Wilson, thank you both for joining us tonight, really appreciate it --
WILSON: Thanks, Lawrence.
PACKER: Thanks, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, participants on "The Apprentice" witnessed Donald Trump`s behavior on the set. There are a lot of rumors about what was said on that set, what might be hiding in the video vaults of that show.
A woman who was a contestant will tell us what she saw and experienced with Donald Trump behind the scenes.
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O`DONNELL: The "Access Hollywood" videotape of Donald Trump on the bus has done more to damage the Trump campaign than anything else that has come up during his campaign.
And there is a lot more video out there in different vaults, video vaults in Hollywood and elsewhere. Up next, a woman who was behind the scenes with Donald Trump at his TV show, one of the contestants on his show will tell us about what she witnessed with Donald Trump.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Come on, people! Come on. This isn`t an audition for like some show.
(LAUGHTER)
This ain`t a show.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: That was the president campaigning for Hillary Clinton in North Carolina today. The show that Donald Trump used to star in might now be the most dangerous thing in his past.
After the "Access Hollywood" video was revealed last week, showing Donald Trump bragging about sexual assault, a former producer of Donald Trump`s show "The Apprentice", tweeted, "I assure you, when it comes to the Trump tapes, there are far worse."
Today, "BuzzFeed" reports that a former sound engineer for "The Apprentice" said working with Donald Trump was the most abusive, humiliating experience of my 15 years as a sound engineer."
"BuzzFeed" reports the engineer who is apparently white and asked to remain anonymous out of fear of retribution was a sound mixer on Nbc`s "The Apprentice" for two seasons in 2004 and 2005.
Throughout their interactions, Trump refused to address him directly, instead aiming all of his comments about the engineer to his assistants.
I am not going to -- "I`m not going to let this f-ing monkey touch me unless he washes his hands." Trump said according to the engineer.
Trump then made one of his assistants escort the engineer to the bathroom and watch him wash his rooms before walking him back and telling Trump he washed up.
This comes after the "Associated Press" spoke to more than 20 people who worked on "The Apprentice" and described Trump`s behavior on the set as lewd and sexist.
The "Ap" reports that in one case, a former crew member said we were in the boardroom one time, figuring out who to blame for the task and he just stopped in the middle and pointed to someone and said, "you`d f her, wouldn`t you? I`d f her, come on, wouldn`t you?
Everyone is trying to make him stop talking, and the woman is shrinking in her seat." Last night, Donald Trump had this to say about the possibility of more videos coming up.
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TRUMP: If they want to release more tapes, saying inappropriate things, we`ll continue to talk about Bill and Hillary Clinton doing inappropriate things. There are so many of them, folks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Tara Dowdell who was a contestant on the third season of "The Apprentice". So, we just heard Donald Trump say if they want to release more tapes, we all have the feeling that he thinks there are more tapes.
TARA DOWDELL, FORMER CONTESTANT ON THE APPRENTICE: He knows there are more tapes, because Donald Trump knows what he said in the past. He knows his behavior particularly because it`s been consistent.
Over these years he`s been saying this lewd, lascivious, inappropriate, vulgar, vile things his whole career. And I think when I was on the show, I heard a lot of rumors.
I will say in the interest of disclosure, I was not personally someone who he came to and used this kind of language with, it did not happen to me.
I don`t know why that was. I don`t know that perhaps because I worked for the governor of New Jersey and he did business in New Jersey.
O`DONNELL: So, when you were a contestant on the show, you worked for the governor of New Jersey?
DOWDELL: I had worked for the governor of New Jersey --
O`DONNELL: Had worked for the governor of New Jersey --
DOWDELL: And I had met Donald Trump in that capacity before I was a contestant on the show.
O`DONNELL: Oh, I see, OK --
DOWDELL: And then I was working at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, an agency that was important to him and important --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
DOWDELL: To many people. So, I think that may have played a role as well. But I had heard a lot of rumors about him saying extremely, inappropriate, offensive things to women on the show.
And I think one of the things we know about Donald Trump is that where there`s smoke, there`s a gigantic forest fire.
O`DONNELL: And so, Friday, this video comes out, Donald Trump on the bus. You`re watching that video, what were you feeling when you were watching that video?
DOWDELL: I was shocked that it came out, because he managed to suppress it for so long, so, I thought it was very interesting that it came out.
But it did not surprise me in the least bit. And I was glad it came out, because it really took even more of the mask off of Donald Trump.
And I say the mask because one of the things that people I think don`t realize about Donald Trump is that he can be very charming if he wants to be. He can be focused if he wants to be.
If it`s something that he cares enough about. And so he can be a master manipulator. I think that`s what makes him a strong, unfortunately, a marketer.
And so I think that one of the things that he`s been able to do with certain people is to pick and choose who he uses what language with, and who -- based on the audience.
And that is the definition of predatory behavior. Looking at certain women, testing the waters, making a decision as to whether or not he`s going to harass them or not.
Whether he`s going to do, you know, what he does or not. And so, I think that`s one of the things that has allowed him to get away with so much for so long, even with all the information out there is that he can at times, when he wants to be, be charming and focused.
O`DONNELL: Yes, so in that video, you see those two faces. You hear the guy on the bus who basically says I can do sexual assault whenever I feel like it.
And then we watch him get off the bus, and we watch the way he deals with that woman when he gets off the bus, which is different from the way we heard him describe how he can do these kinds of things.
DOWDELL: Exactly, and that`s what I saw in Donald Trump. With me, he was much more professional, again, like I said, I don`t know if it was because of my position or because I was African-American, frankly, to that, could have also been a reason.
But as far as his behavior is concerned, this is consistent. He identifies people, he`s very good at reading people, people shouldn`t underestimate his ability to read people.
That`s why he`s doing so well with the Republican --
O`DONNELL: And read vulnerability in particular.
DOWDELL: Exactly --
O`DONNELL: Yes --
DOWDELL: And that is why he`s doing so well with the Republican Party base. He saw earlier than the party itself saw that this -- that there was such a racial component to the animus against President Obama.
He read that. He saw it as an opening at a time when the show, "The Apprentice" was waning, when his success was waning. That was his big -- the most successful thing he`s done in his life is "The Apprentice", that`s it.
Because we now know he lost a billion dollars in one year. We know all these things. That was his gravy train. That is what launched him to the global status where he is now.
That was all going away around the time when he jumped on the birther bandwagon, and I think he read the Republican Party base.
He saw and he was able to connect with them and he`s continued to connect with them, and he has them wrapped around his finger.
O`DONNELL: What about racist comments by Donald Trump around the set?
DOWDELL: I personally did not hear anything, but Randall Pinkett who is a friend of mine, who was the winner of season 4 of "The Apprentice" said that he referred to him as lazy.
Randal Pinkett has a PHD, he went to MIT, that`s hardly someone who would be referred to as lazy, so we know the racial components there. We also -- he`s on the record as saying that blacks are lazy.
And even as far as I was concerned, one dynamic that I did feel was that there was an expectation for me to comport myself a certain way as an African-American woman.
I felt like they wanted me to be more of a stereotype, which is why if you watch my season, I wasn`t shown very much because I conducted myself with class and dignity as my family taught me.
And that did not make for the type of person that they wanted to showcase on the show.
O`DONNELL: Tara Dowdell, thank you very much for joining us tonight, really appreciate it.
DOWDELL: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, new reports tonight about Steve Bannon and the crazy guys running the Trump campaign with their crazy ideas and crazy ambitions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: The Daily Beast is reporting that Steve Bannon was claiming to be Trump`s campaign manager a year before he was given a position on the Trump campaign. The Daily Beast has obtained e-mails Bannon wrote to a colleague in August 2015 in which he says, "I`m Trump`s campaign manager.
Also last year, while he was secretly claiming to be Donald Trump`s campaign manager, Steve Bannon was secretly planning a coup against speaker Paul Ryan. Jonathan Swan of the Hill obtained e-mail between Steve Bannon and Breitbart`s News Washington Editor Matt Boyle when Bannon was running Breitbart`s New. The Hill reports in December 1 e-mail Breitbart`s Washington Editor Matt Boyle suggested to Bannon via e-mail that a story promoting Ryan`s planned overhaul of the Mental Health System would be a good way to open a bridge to Ryan.
Bannon wasn`t keen on the idea. I`ve got a cure for Mental Health Issue Bannon wrote to Boyle, spank your children more. I get that responded Boyle. But this is a place where we can open a bridge to Paul Ryan. We`re playing the very long, long, long game, Steve. Replied Bannon, long game is him gone by spring.
Joining us now, Jonathan Swan, National Political Reporter for The Hill and Charlie Sykes a Radio Host on WTMJ and Milwaukee on an MSNBC Contributor. Jonathan, tell us about the -- about this situation with this e-mail. There`s Bannon saying he`s a campaign manager a year before he`s hired to be the campaign manager, a year before he`s officially associated with that campaign. That`s one element. But at the same time, plotting to get rid of Paul Ryan, it seems.
JONATHAN SWAN, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE HILL: Steve Bannon has long fantasized about destroying Paul Ryan. And it`s pretty clear from Breitbart`s coverage, you can see. I mean they`ve dedicated immense resources to destroying Paul Ryan. They`ve attacked him for sending his kids to a catholic school.
They did a report which said that he was a hypocrite for building "border wall around his house and not supporting Donald Trump`s border wall." But this is the first time we`ve seen direct evidence that he actually ordered, gave orders to staff that he wanted Paul Ryan gone from the Speakership by the spring.
And this was only a few after Paul Ryan was elected speaker.
O`DONNELL: Well gee -- we have to rewind the tape here for a minute. They`ve attacked Paul Ryan for sending his kids to a catholic school?
SWAN: Yes. Do you want me to explain the rationale, Lawrence?
O`DONNELL: You`ve got to. Yes. you`re going to have to.
SWAN: So the rationale is Donald Trump -- sorry, Paul Ryan opposed Donald Trump`s Muslim ban. And they said he was hypocritical for opposing a religious test on immigrants into the country but sent his children to a school that imposed a religious test because it was a catholic school.
O`DONNELL: Well, I have news for Steve Bannon and his totally insane friends. I went to a catholic school and you did not have to be a catholic to go there. In fact my catholic school was the first place where I met a Jewish kid. That`s what those guys don`t know. Charlie Sikesi got to -- you`ve lived with -- you`re not surprised at what I`m learning tonight. You`ve been around this and for a painfully long time for you at this point. Bannon and these people, Charlie, seem to me to be just chaos kids. They`re just kids looking for chaos.
CHARLIE SYKES, RADIO HOST, WTMJA: Yes, it is -- it is the uglyist corner of the alt-right fever swamp. And, of course, we lived through this when they were obsessed with the attacking Paul Ryan during the primary. And by the way, how did that work out for them? Because Paul Ryan got 84% of the vote.
But every day we have these bizarre attacks. So, you know, when Donald Trump names Steve Bannon to be the CEO of his campaign, you knew it was not going to end well. It indicated exactly where this campaign was going to go. And so now we wake up this morning, and this campaign is going full Breitbart.
You almost cannot overstate how potentially ugly and bizarre this is. I mean we are one speech, one rally away from Donald Trump, the Republican nominee, going full Alex Jones in this campaign. He`s obviously going to lose the election. But he`s going to lose it ugly.
And apparently the idea of burning it down. They`re going to be burning down the entire Republican Party. And if that includes wiping out the down ballot, apparently guys like Steve Bannon and Donald Trump are completely okay with that.
O`DONNELL: But I guess the part that, Jonathan that I don`t understand is what do these people want? They sound like anarchists to me. I mean the idea that, do they want anyone to be Speaker of the House? Do they want a house where there is no Speaker? I just don`t get at what chaotic level they want everything reduced to.
SWAN: So I`ve interviewed a lot of who`ve worked with Steve Bannon. And they say that his world view is that Paul Ryan is the leader of a globalist, elitist conspiracy that is trying to destroy America via open borders and free trade. So really, what he wants to do is completely, and burn it down is the right phraseology.
He wants to burn it down. He wants to get rid of the Republican leadership and he wants to install people who subscribe to the Donald Trump, Jeff Sessions view of the world which is borders, deportation and basically protectionist on trade. He wants a populist republican party. And now he`s really orchestrating this new campaign that`s the biggest megaphone of these views.
O`DONNELL: But Charlie --
SYKES: Yeah.
O`DONNELL: Bannon`s campaign is on its way to what could be a landslide defeat, if they face a landslide defeat, what do they, then, think on November 9th?
SYKES: Yes, well, by the way, I think the whole unshackled, when Donald Trump says he`s unshackled, he`s unshackled to, you know, to get in touch with his inner Steve Bannon and Breitbart. So what do they think? Well they already starting to look around for scapegoats who stabbed them in the back,
You know was it the globalist elite? Was it Paul Ryan? These folks are deep into the -- an alternative reality. You know as you pointed out earlier they apparently think they are winning this election.
O`DONNELL: Yes.
SYKES: So clearly what you`re going to start to hear is a lot of conspiracy theories about the election being rigged or the establishment some how undermining them because, of course, they will never own it. They will never take personal responsibility for the disaster that they are in fact creating.
O`DONNELL: Jonathan Swan, great reporting and thanks for joining us tonight. And Charlie Sykes, thank you for joining us again tonight, really appreciate it.
SYKES: Thank you. Thank you. O`DONNELL: Up next, Donald Trump knows he can`t possibly lose the election. But he does no know the Democrats just might steal it. And Eugene Robinson joins us next.
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O`DONNELL: Last night in Pennsylvania, Donald Trump warped his supporters that the election could be stolen from them by those voters in Philadelphia. And everybody knew who he was talking about.
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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE 2016: I just hear such reports about Philadelphia. And we have to make sure we`re protected. We have to make sure the people of Philadelphia are protected that the vote counts are 100 percent.
Everybody wants that. But I hear these horror shows. I hear these horror shows. And we have to make sure that this election is not stolen from us and is not taken away from us. And everybody knows what I`m talking about.
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O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Eugene Robinson, Pulitzer Prize Winning Opinion Writer for the Washington Post and an MSNBC Political Analyst. Eugene he said everybody knows what I`m talking about. So that means you must know what he`s talking about.
EUGENE ROBINSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well.
O`DONNELL: What is he telling his audience there?
ROBINSON: I heard the message loud and clear. It`s that those black people in Philadelphia are going to cheat. And somehow they`re going to commit massive voter fraud. And, you know, and that might swing Pennsylvania to the Democrats. Well, of course, Pennsylvania always goes to the Democrats. But, basically, this is again, he doesn`t use dog whistles anymore. He uses, you know, train clacks, and that`s what he`s doing here.
O`DONNELL: And so Gene this goes to the issue of I mean, Hillary Clinton, in order to actually be seen as winning this by the other side has to win it by some gigantic margin on anything that`s even vaguely close. They`re going to fall for that Donald Trump line.
ROBINSON: Well, you know, I`m sure that his most loyal supporters. She could beat him by 50 points and they still wouldn`t believe it. So you are never going to get that audience. I think there are potentially some detachable. There are potentially some Trump supporters who will accept a landslide. But will not accept a close election.
And the rest of the country is used to accepting close elections because that`s what you usually have. And so, you know, this is not a majority problem in the country. But for the, you know, what, 25, 30 percent, whatever of hard core Trump supporters. They may never believe that he loses this election.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to a woman who`s not going to accept anything but a Trump presidency. She was in a conversation with Mike Pence today. Let`s listen to this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will tell you just for me, and I don`t want this to happen. But I will tell you from me personally, if Hillary Clinton gets in, I myself am ready for a revolution, because we can`t have her in.
MIKE PENCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT CANDIDATE: Yes, you don`t want to that. Now don`t say that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I`m just saying it. No, you know, I`m like Trump, you know, Do I not speak for people here? Am I not saying the truth, guys? Come on.
PENCE: Yes, there`s a revolution coming on the November 8th, I promise you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Gene, it`s starting to look like a lot is going to be up to Mike Pence if on November 9th he has not been elected Vice President of the United States. The sane half of the Republican Party might be looking to Mike Pence to try to make those people understand that no, Hillary Clinton really is going to be president and legitimately so.
ROBINSON: You know, it`s an interesting theory, Lawrence, and it could be right, and I`m reminded of the first big election I covered, which was not in this country. It was in Chile. It was the plebiscite that ended up denying Augusto Pinochet another eight or 12 years of rule. And everyone wondered if he would accept the result and was actually another member of the ruling member of the Junta.
One of his fellow members of the Junta who came out after the vote and said, you know, General Pinochet has lost. And thus, the whole country could accept it. So maybe Mike Pence could play the role that the head of the Chilean air force played that night in 1988 and reassure the country of the constitutional order.
O`DONNELL: Eugene Robinson, who has seen it all. Thank you very much for joining us tonight Gene. Really appreciate it.
ROBINSON: Very welcome Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Coming up in the Campaign War Room tonight. It is now the Trump campaign at war with the world.
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O`DONNELL: So how many Republican lawmakers have turned against Donald Trump? U.S.A Today has the number. The newspaper surveyed all 31 Republican governors, 54 Republican senators and 246 Republican house members, 331 in total. 87 of them have not endorsed Donald Trump.
That`s 26 percent. In 2012, a newspaper survey put the number of Republican lawmakers not supporting Mitt Romney at three. Today President Obama talked about these 74 percent of republican lawmakers who are still supporting Donald Trump.
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BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: Now you`ve got people saying, well, we strongly disapprove. We really disagree. We find those comments disgusting. But we`re still endorsing him. We still think he should be president.
That doesn`t make sense to me. You can`t have it both ways here. You can`t repeatedly denounce what is said by someone and then say, but I`m still going to endorse them to be the most powerful person on the planet and to put them in charge.
So -- so I just wanted to make that point. Because there are still a number of Republican elected officials, some of whom I know and I`m sure are embarrassed and say, wow, that was a really terrible thing he said, but they can`t bring themselves to say I can`t endorse this guy. Anyway, I want to make that point. Let me get back on script here.
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O`DONNELL: Coming up, big polling news tonight in Georgia which is supposed to be a strong, reliable Republican state. Not anymore. Donald Trump is now in dire trouble there. Campaign War room is next.
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O`DONNELL: Time for tonight`s Campaign War Room. We have breaking news from the New York Times quote; Mrs. Clinton`s campaign has concluded that at least two traditionally Republican States, Georgia and Arizona are realistic targets for her campaign to win over. And Republican polling has found that Mr. Trump is at dire risk of losing Georgia, according to people briefed on the polls who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Today the Clinton campaign War Room enlisted the help of former vice president Al gore in Florida, which he famously lost to George W. Bush by just 537 votes after a ruling by the Supreme Court stopped the recount going on in Florida at that time. Al Gore had this message for Hillary Clinton supporters.
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AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Please take it from me. Every single vote counts. Every single vote counts. If you think your vote does not matter, take it from me, your vote can make all of the difference in this election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Democratic turnout is also a concern for the Trump War Room, according to the Wall Street Journal, Donald Trump plants to renew the Nationalist thems that built his base and amplifies his no-holds barred attacks against Hillary Clinton to depress Democratic voter turnout. With 27 days left for the Presidential Campaign War Rooms. Joining us tonight in the Last Word War Room is Simon Rosenberg, a veteran of Bill Clinton`s 1992 Presidential Campaign War Room.
Simon, this strategy by the Trump campaign of depressing democratic turnout by attacking Hillary Clinton in the past, attack ad strategies have been -- these attack ads will convert votes to me. They aren`t hoping to get the votes converted to Trump votes. They just want to do attack ads that make people stay home. Have we ever seen that strategy tried or have it worked?
SIMON ROSENBERG, FOUNDER NEW DEMOCRATIC NETWORK: Not in the general election. But I mean part of what they`re do being is that when we know from recent elections, when fewer people vote, Republicans do better. It`s what happened in 2010 it`s what happened in 2014.
When the electorate is big, right? It`s how we win elections like we did in 2008 and 2012. It may be the only play they really have at this point, well that`s right. I mean they`ve concluded that he can`t really get his numbers up any higher, so they`ve got to take her down. That`s why they`re throwing the kitchen sink at the Clinton Campaign with a little bit of help from Moscow by the way along the way.
O`DONNELL: Yes. Simon this news from Georgia tonight is really quite stunning. I mean the Georgia polls closed at 7:00 p.m. on election night. We could know -- we could have a call in Georgia?
ROSENBERG: Yes.
O`DONNELL: If it`s by a substantial margin by 8:00 p.m. If we know that at 8:00 p.m. we know everything we have to know?
ROSENBERG: Yes. Listen the Clinton Campaign said early on that they`re going to try to put three additional states in play, North Carolina, Arizona and Georgia states that were not won by Barack Obama in 2012. She`s ahead in North Carolina. The polling certainly makes it look like she`s ahead in Arizona at this point. And Georgia was the place where we haven`t seen much polling but according to this report, things are going well there.
She`s expanding the map. She`s going to make it harder for any future Republican, as hard as it was for Republicans to win general elections. She`s going to make it harder now for them to do so in the future.
O`DONNELL: And one of the keys in the New York Times report is that Republican polling is showing Donald Trump in dire trouble. That`s what they`re saying there. Simon Rosenberg, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
ROSENBERG: Sure.
O`DONNELL: Really appreciate it.
ROSENBERG: Good to be here Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: We`ll be right back.
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O`DONNELL: Donald Trump had a rally in Florida during this hour. And we did not go live to the Trump rally. You`re welcome. But here is something you might want to hear from that rally.
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TRUMP,: We could have this happen. We`re pretty even in Florida and I`m a little disappointed because Hillary hasn`t created a job and I`ve created thousands of jobs in Florida, thousands. So Florida if you guys don`t vote me as a victor I`m going to be very angry at you. The polls are pretty even in Florida, you -- don`t let me down.
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O`DONNELL: Well, let`s see if that works. Threatening the voters if they don`t vote for you, I`m going to be very angry at you. That`s the last word for tonight. "THE 11TH HOUR" with Brian Williams is live, and it is coming up next.
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