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The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell, Transcript 8/30/2016

Guests: Howard Dean, Clarence Page, Charlie Sykes, Liz Smith, Tim Miller

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL Date: August 30, 2016 Guest: Howard Dean, Clarence Page, Charlie Sykes, Liz Smith, Tim Miller, Howard Dean

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: That does it for us tonight, we will see you again tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: OK, Rachel, here is another way for you to keep the image of 12 feet --

MADDOW: Right --

O`DONNELL: In your head. It is two mes(ph).


It`s just two of me, that`s 12 feet.

MADDOW: Two of you stacked on top of each other --

O`DONNELL: That is correct --


MADDOW: Anaconda --

O`DONNELL: That it is me standing on top of my head.

MADDOW: I`m not even scared of snakes and I can`t do this story like -- hairs on the back of my neck --

O`DONNELL: I got that, I could --

MADDOW: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Almost see the hairs on the back of your neck here, thank you, Rachel --

MADDOW: Thank you, Lawrence --

O`DONNELL: Thank you --

MADDOW: Appreciate it.

O`DONNELL: Well, it was election night in Florida and Arizona, John McCain, Marco Rubio, Debbie Wasserman Schultz all face primary opponents tonight.

We`ll have those results for you. Also tonight, Donald Trump will be speaking at a rally in Washington State, that`s during this hour.

He is definitely going to lose Washington State as the Republican candidate for president usually does, and the latest polls show him way behind Hillary Clinton there. And tomorrow, tomorrow could be a huge day in the Trump campaign.

Because Donald Trump might be adding something very surprising to his already, almost busy schedule. A quick trip to Mexico.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump is not softening his position on immigration.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: There certainly can be a softening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wasn`t softening I think.

TRUMP: I`ve heard people say it`s a hardening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why doesn`t the campaign know yet whether a deportation force is part of his immigration policy, is it or is it not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is part of it.

TRUMP: We`re going to have a deportation force.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that accurate?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, CAMPAIGN MANAGER, DONALD TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN: I think you have to go back to Mr. Trump`s speech at the convention in Cleveland, and to see if no deportation force is mentioned in there.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a good one --



What a deportation force was.


TRUMP: All of the bad dudes, they`re out.

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC HOST: Is there any circumstance where at the end of a Trump presidency, any of those 11 million could still remain in the United States?

CONWAY: You have to listen to his speech tomorrow to find out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His position is going to be humane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s a good sign when a candidate is talking about undocumented immigrants the same way KFC talks about chickens.


We`ll do it humanely, they won`t feel a thing.



O`DONNELL: Nixon went to China and now Trump is going to Mexico, maybe. No one would have expected a hardline, anti-communist Republican to be the first American president to go to China. But then Richard Nixon surprised the world by doing that.

And no one would have expected the most hardline anti-Mexico, anti-Mexican presidential candidate to go to Mexico until a "Washington Post" report tonight reveal that the Trump campaign has been planning a possible quick trip to Mexico tomorrow for the last few days.

Mexico`s President Enrique Pena Nieto has invited presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump to visit Mexico.

And according to the "Washington Post", the Trump campaign CEO Stephen Bannon has been urging Trump to accept.

The "Washington Post" says that Trump, "has been navigating a flood of conflicting advice on going to Mexico and on his immigration policy which Donald Trump is expected to clarify tomorrow night in a major speech in Arizona."

So, if the "Washington Post" is correct, Donald Trump will begin his day tomorrow with fundraising in California in the morning, then hop down to Mexico City to visit with President Pena Nieto and then fly back to Arizona for his big immigration speech there tomorrow night.

Where we will finally know whether Donald Trump really wants to deport 11 million people. Does he still want to do that? Or maybe we won`t know any more than we know right now.


DONALD TRUMP JR., SON OF DONALD TRUMP: You`re going to see a lot more detail, but you`re going to really see the fundamental principles that we have to do, that we have to secure our border. We have to start implementing an e-verify system.

We have to let ICE do their job and force the existing laws in the books. I mean, some of this isn`t rocket science. We have to have baby steps first.


O`DONNELL: Well, none of it is rocket science. Donald Trump has not yet scheduled a speech about rocket science, but apparently, he has scheduled a speech about baby steps. And that is the speech he will give tomorrow night.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still says deport --

TRUMP: That they all got to go --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s been the same --

TRUMP: Correct, but again, you have to start with baby steps. You have to let ICE do their job. You have to eliminate the sanctuary cities.

You have to get rid of the criminals, certainly, first and foremost, you have to secure the border. These are common sense things and it`s --


O`DONNELL: So, according to Donald Trump Jr., deport all 11 million has become let`s just take baby steps, baby steps, it is an amazing phrase to hear coming from the Trump campaign. Baby steps, it sounds like something Donald Trump would accuse the Obama administration of doing with deportation.

Even though the Obama administration has deported more people than any other recent presidential administration. But one prominent Trump supporter, former Congressman Jack Kingston apparently hasn`t gotten the "baby steps" memo.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why doesn`t the campaign know yet whether a deportation force is part of his immigration policy, is it or is it not?

JACK KINGSTON, FORMER CONGRESSMAN: It is part of it, we`re going to learn more Wednesday.


O`DONNELL: And here is the way the Trump campaign manager today said that Donald Trump will completely reverse himself tomorrow on having a deportation force to deport 11 million people.


CONWAY: Imagine what happens if people actually enforce the law. If we had a president who worked with Congress, just go around the executive amnesty on this -- in this very complex issue, but actually worked with Congress and worked with the law enforcement agencies, the immigration officials.

We, as taxpayers, we fund a whole bunch of agencies and individuals who are tasked with enforcing the law and it simply has not been done. Let`s at least do it and then see where we end up.


O`DONNELL: So, no mass hiring of a deportation force, and no attempt at all to deport 11 million people.

So, if you combine Kellyanne Conway`s comments today with Donald Trump Jr.`s comments, what you can expect tomorrow night from Donald Trump is enforce current law in baby steps.

Joining us now, Howard Dean, former Governor of Vermont, former Democratic Party Chairman and a Hillary Clinton supporter. He`s also an Msnbc political analyst.

Also with us Charlie Sykes, radio host and "Wtmjam" in Milwaukee, and the editor-in-chief of "Right Wisconsin".

And joining us Clarence Page, columnist for the "Chicago Tribune". Howard Dean, what do you make of this late breaking report of Donald Trump might just jump down to Mexico City tomorrow.

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR: I think it`s a major mistake on the part of the Mexican president.

First of all, he`s not going to look so great to his own country people, inviting down probably the biggest anti-Hispanic bigot in the country.

And second of all, it`s going to -- I don`t think he has this intention, but it`s going to look like he`s interfering in American politics.

So, I am surprised that President Pena Nieto would take such a meeting and I think it`s a mistake on his part.

O`DONNELL: There`s a report now quoting the president of Mexico saying at the moment, there is no confirmation of meetings at this point. And Clarence Page, that`s quoting the Mexican President.

What -- is this a smart move for Donald Trump or does he run the risk of having the Mexican president tomorrow, publicly say we will never pay for your wall?

CLARENCE PAGE, COLUMNIST, CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Well, as we know Donald Trump loves the risk and he also loves to negotiate. He loves to be a deal maker. I think he smells the possibility of a deal of some sort, but it`s hard to believe it would be that -- much of a comprehensive deal.

I think it`s more a question of Trump reacting to flattery, which he loves to do once again. And he feels flattered that the president of Mexico wants to talk to him.

But this whole thing sounds very vague, I`ll be surprised if it really comes off tomorrow. I have been part of a delegation that met with the last -- previous Mexican president, and the very notion of having a meeting put together this hastingly, just sounds unrealistic to me.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to the Mexican president actually saying that he will not pay for this wall.


ENRIQUE PENA NIETO, PRESIDENT OF MEXICO: There`s no way that Mexico can pay for a wall like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mexico is going to pay for this wall that you just said you`re opposed to.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that`s absurd, we would never consider that.


O`DONNELL: Charlie Sykes, the "Washington Post" report indicates that Steve Bannon is the one who is pushing this idea within the Trump campaign --


O`DONNELL: Is he willing to go down there and have the President of Mexico say absolutely to Donald Trump, publicly, we will not pay for that wall.

SYKES: Yes, well, what could possibly go wrong, right? I mean, you`re talking about the Mexican --


SYKES: President, who in the past has actually compared Donald Trump to Hitler and Mussolini.

So, you would think that the grown-ups in the room, the people who are not Steve Bannon would be pointing out that there was a -- you know, a little bit of, you know, risk involved in this.

But I definitely think I`m going to need a bigger bucket of popcorn for the next 24 hours.

O`DONNELL: Yes, here`s that quote that the BBC had from the president of Mexico. It said, "in an interview with the "Mexican Daily Excels" here, he called Mr. Trump`s rhetoric strident and he added that --

SYKES: Yes --

O`DONNELL: That`s how Mussolini got in. That`s how Hitler got in."

So -- but Howard Dean, the "Washington Post" report is that the Mexican president invited both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton as recently as Friday, extended them invitations to come to visit with him and this is what Donald Trump is considering acting on.

DEAN: Yes, that may be true. I mean, that`s why I think this is probably a mistake on the part of the president. You obviously want good relationships with the United States if you`re the Mexican president.

And the -- I mean, it`s important for the United States` point of view, a very good relationship with Mexico. The longest border other than Canada is that we have.

SYKES: Yes --

DEAN: So, you know, I think he was just being hospitable and I think he says -- probably hope that Hillary is going to take him up on it but hope that Trump wouldn`t.

And so, Trump has essentially called this bluff, but it`s not so funny from a political point of view because I`m with Charlie Sykes, I`ve got to get some popcorn for this because this is going to be a spectacle, nothing Trump does is not a spectacle.

And I just wouldn`t get mixed up in this if I was the Mexican president.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to now Trump --

SYKES: No, I think this is the key name --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead --

SYKES: That was Steve Bannon. I mean, Steve Bannon is not Henry Kissinger and Donald Trump is not Richard Nixon, I think we ought to remember that.



SYKES: You know, that if you actually had some people who knew something about foreign policy, they would be taking him aside and saying this is a really bad idea.

And if you just imagine for example, if Marco Rubio was the Republican nominee and he was headed off to Mexico, can you imagine what the Trump reaction would be right now.

Because the one thing that Donald Trump does not want to be accused of, he doesn`t want to be accused of pandering. He doesn`t want to be accused of being squishy. He doesn`t want to be accused of flip-flopping.

And you know, there are so many down sides to this that you would think that somebody with a little bit more -- I don`t know, savvy than Steve Bannon would be able to point that out to Donald Trump.

O`DONNELL: And Clarence, everything Donald Trump`s people are saying is that he is continuing the softening we heard from Donald Trump Jr., we heard from Kellyanne Conway, absolutely nothing about a deportation force.

It`s -- they`re talking about baby steps, that`s the language of the Trump campaign on this, which has to be disappointing to his hard line supporters who cared very much about deporting all those people.

If he gives a speech tomorrow night that is about baby steps and extends the softening into formalized Trump policy.

And he gives that speech after having visited with the Mexican president, how crushing would that be to his early hardline supporters who really were with him because of that wall and because of the deporting of 11 million people.

PAGE: Well, the most surprising thing about -- or surprising -- but Donald -- but all this is to hear the Trump folks talk about baby anything --


PAGE: Anything small, I mean, Donald Trump always speaks in exaggeration and superlatives. And -- but you know, Kellyanne, did say something here yesterday that was interesting.

That his supporters -- Trump -- Donald Trump`s supporters don`t necessarily expect him to come across with everything that he promises.

But the solid wall and all the other deportation force, all of these elaborate measures. But he`s going in the right direction as far as they`re concerned.

And that`s their big issue, that they feel the current government, the sort of current administration and Congress haven`t been moving and that Trump wants to move in the direction that they like.

And then they`d be satisfied with that. But you know, so far, Donald Trump has not been able to expand his base here in the recent weeks.

He has been moving up and down in the polls within the margin of error. But he hasn`t really expanded that base and I don`t know that this is going to do it for him.

O`DONNELL: The president of Mexico, the president`s office has issued this clarifying statement just now, saying last Friday the President sent invitations to both candidates which were well-received by both of the teams` campaigns. There is no confirmation of meetings at this point.

And so there we have it, Howard Dean, an official communication from the Mexican president`s office about where this stands. Howard, so we now have this clarification formerly --

DEAN: Yes --

O`DONNELL: From the president of --

DEAN: Right, sorry --

O`DONNELL: Mexico about -- go --

DEAN: Right --

O`DONNELL: About this possible --

DEAN: My ear piece went blank for a second --


DEAN: Sorry --

O`DONNELL: So, this leaves open the possibility of a Donald Trump trip followed by a Hillary Clinton trip.

DEAN: Yes, I`m guessing that Donald Trump trip doesn`t happen because, you know, the Mexican Embassy watches Msnbc, I`m fairly sure.

And I think they probably hadn`t thought through the possibility of having the president of the United States and Mexico become part of the show that is the Donald Trump campaign which is inevitable.

You cannot have a meeting with Donald Trump and emerge from it with any dignity. So, I think that --

PAGE: No one has --

DEAN: They`re probably going to find a way not to have this meeting.

O`DONNELL: Charlie Sykes, Clarence Page, Howard Dean, thank you all for joining me tonight, really appreciate it.

PAGE: Thank you.

SYKES: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, so what did Donald Trump get for his contribution to Anthony Weiner`s congressional campaign? Donald Trump says he always gets what he wants from the politicians he contributes to.

Well, what he got from Anthony Weiner surprisingly enough, involves beautiful women, that answer is coming up.

And in the war room tonight, the campaign war room, why are some of the polls showing that the race is tightening, and where is it tightening and which states? We`ll take a look at the polls.


O`DONNELL: We are watching the Donald Trump rally in Everett, Washington, tonight. We will go to that if anything develops, there`s Reince Priebus on the stage, the warm up act for Donald Trump.

Donald Trump will be speaking within this hour. Big election night in Florida and Arizona tonight, primaries there. The polls just closed in Arizona where John McCain is running in the Republican primary.

We will have those results as soon as there`s something to report there. And in Florida tonight, Marco Rubio won his primary and we now know who the Democrat will be running against him. It will not be Alan Grayson, Patrick Murphy will be stepping up to run against Marco Rubio in Florida.

More on that coming up.



TRUMP: By the way, they said my wife Melania might have come in illegally. Can you believe that one? No, they said -- headlines, maybe she came in illegally, maybe.

Let me tell you one thing, she has got it so documented, so, she`s going to have a little news conference over the next couple of weeks.


O`DONNELL: The next couple of weeks. That was three weeks ago and we`re still waiting for the Melania Trump press conference where she will explain when her career in the United States began and when it began legally.

And if it began legally as a model right from the beginning, that would make her one of the great exceptions in the modeling business here in New York where so many foreign models come and work illegally.

Until and unless they are lucky enough to establish themselves as valuable assets to a modeling agency that will then help them get visas to work legally.

A modeling agency like say Trump Model Management owned and operated by Donald Trump. A new investigative piece in "Mother Jones" reveals that Donald Trump`s agency has deliberately employed models who came to the United States illegally and continued to work illegally for the Trump agency in New York.

Canadian model Rachel Blais told "Mother Jones" that the Trump agency is "the most crooked agency I`ve ever worked for and I`ve worked for quite a few."

Rachel Blais details other Trump agency houses young foreign girls, most of them under 18 in crowded apartments in New York, basement apartments, some of them, where they are wildly overcharged for rent by the Trump agency to the point that some of them never actually see a dollar of income from their work.

The Trump agency keeps it all to pay the models so-called debts to the agency for rent of those apartments and other services.

Donald Trump, the candidate is now opposed to a visa program that he has repeatedly used to get visas for foreign models that the Trump agency chose to get visas for, the H1-B visa.

Here is Donald Trump`s stance now on the H1-B program: "I will end forever the use of the H1-B as a cheap labor program, and institute, an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program, no exceptions."

In 2007, Donald Trump gave Congressman Anthony Weiner the maximum contribution he could give the Weiner re-election campaign.

That was the same year that Anthony Weiner introduced a bill that would make it easier for fashion models to obtain work visas.

A bill that the Congress wisely, completely ignored as was its habit for legislation introduced by Anthony Weiner. Joining us now, David Corn, a Washington Bureau chief for "Mother Jones" and an Msnbc political analyst.

David, "Mother Jones" had the big story of the day here on the eve of Donald Trump`s big immigration speech. Here, you`re showing one of his businesses, very actively and continuously engaged in the violation of immigration law.

DAVID CORN, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, MOTHER JONES: I am not sure whether we should be surprised by the hypocrisy or not.

And I have to give a shout-out to James West, our reporter who tracked down, not one, but three different models and found legal records from another model that all show that they came to New York City, these are women who lived outside the United States, non-Americans on tourist visas.

If you come to America on a tourist visa, you`re not allowed to work, working is a violation of our laws.

And the employer, him, herself, the agency can be fined and go to jail as well for making people work. And yet, this is what happened, it was very common as you noted earlier in the fashion industry to do this.

But we found very solid examples of this happening with the Trump Model Management Agency. And you know, here is Donald Trump saying that, hey, you know, I want to do something, these people, you know, I don`t like illegal immigrants coming in here and taking jobs.

And it`s just the sort of same thing we see with him making his clothing overseas, hiring out of -- non-American labor down in Florida again and again and again.

This is a guy who has never lived by some of the core elements of his own presidential campaign.

O`DONNELL: You get into real specifics in this piece about the financial exploitation of the models, whether here legally or illegally and most of them in the story illegally, charging $1,600 a month for a bunk, just to have a bunk in a room in an apartment with four other girls. And these are girls as young as 14, 15, some of them. And that in that same neighborhood, an actual entire studio apartment would rent for less than the 1,600 that each one of these girls had to pay in one of these rooms.

Now, all modeling agencies, they`re -- you know, their business plan is to make money off the women or young girls who they bring in to do jobs for them.

But it seems that the Trump agency and some others really making an art form by overcharging them, taking commission, charging them other fees as well. For trainers, beauticians, make up people, stylists and they all hold that against the wages they make.

We have a model who worked, you know, for Trump agency for a couple of years who -- at the end of all that, she did some, you know, shoots for some very splashy fashion magazines and some high-end fashion designers and she walked away with 8,000 bucks.

So, it really seems to have been a racket from the get-go. An interesting piece of the story that James West found was that the Trump agency would tell these women what to say in order to deceive U.S. customs.

When you come in, say you`re here to visit your aunt, say you`re here for any other reason, except making connections in the modeling world.

And in fact, if you have a portfolio or anything like that, ship it separately. So, they knew what they were doing.

They knew they were trying to get these women and young girls to circumvent U.S. law so that they could then make a profit off them.

O`DONNELL: David Corn, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

CORN: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, the polling gap is now narrowing between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in some national polls, we will take a closer look at those polls in the campaign war room tonight.

And later, we`ll have the results in the primary elections tonight in Florida and Arizona, including John McCain`s re-election race.


O`DONNELL: Time for tonight`s Campaigns War Room. The Clinton and Trump War rooms are now seeing a tightening on the latest polls. An NBC News National Tracking Poll today shows Hillary Clinton four points ahead of Donald Trump at 41 to 37 in the four-way race.

Earlier this month, the same Poll showed Hillary Clinton six points ahead at 44 to 38 percent. That`s actually a change within the margin of error on that poll. So it actually might not be any change at all. The latest Monmouth National Poll shows Hillary Clinton seven points ahead at 46 percent or 39 percent in the four-way race.

Earlier this month, that same poll showed Hillary Clinton 13 points ahead of Donald Trump at 50 to 37. This afternoon, the Trump Campaign Manager Kellyanne Conway, said this about the polls in an interview with Steve Kornacki.


KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: The media doesn`t want to cover what`s really happening in this campaign just in the last weeks which now the polls are tightening. Two weeks ago, you`re entire -- the entire network was obsessed with hair on fire. Look at the polls. Look at the polls. The race is over. Now that the polls are tightening, nobody wants to talk about the polls.


O`DONNELL: And now to talk about the polls in the Last Word War Room is Tim Miller, a Senior Advisor for our Principals, an Anti Trump PAC. And a Veteran of the Jeb Bush Presidential campaign war room also with us, Liz Smith, Veteran of Martin O`Malley and President Obama`s Presidential Campaign War Rooms.

Liz, what do you see in these polls?

LIZ SMITH, DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well frankly, not much. Look, I know that there`s a trend in this cycle to kind of grade the Trump campaign on a little bit of a curve. But when you hear Kellyanne Conway out there bragging about polls, you have to realize that the polling landscape shows that they`re losing every single swing state.

They are losing every, you know, every national poll out there. And look at it compared 2012. They are even losing North Carolina. And Barack Obama won that election pretty handedly.

So, this is a campaign that`s pretty desperate and they`re anxious to hang their hat on anything they can find. And I think that`s what their signaling today.

O`DONNELL: Tim Miller, the polls that matter at this point are the swing state polls, aren`t they?

TIM MILLER, COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR, ANTI-DONALD TRUMP PAC: Yes. Absolutely. There`s a great column today by Tim Alberta in the National Review which is the conservative outlet that looks at the swing state math. And you can look at and basically the conclusion that he came to is that Donald Trump has no path to 270 electoral votes.

He needs to win North Carolina, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, all four of them in order to get to 270. He`s getting in killed in Pennsylvania right now and losing, pretty handedly in all of those other states while they`re a little bit more competitive. So, it`s impossible to see a path to heaven.

And this is the deal, Kellyanne is not stupid. But, you know, she`s kind of -- hoping that you guys are and hoping that she can sell the media on this closing race. But she`s a pollster and she sees the reality here. And she`s trying to spin the best that she has to work with and it`s not much unfortunately for her.

SMITH: And also keep in mind, you know, this is a campaign that said they`re going to expand the map. That he would win Connecticut.

Yesterday, Mike Pence was in Georgia. Tomorrow Donald Trump is Arizona. And that is not a sign of strength. That is a sign that Democrats are the ones expanding the map. And that the GOP is actually on the defenses (ph).

O`DONNELL: And apparently, Tim Miller, Donald Trump is going to expand the campaign map to Mexico tomorrow. He just tweeted has accepted the Mexican President`s invitation to go to Mexico tomorrow, so that`s going to be his biggest travel there yet of the campaign.

MILLER: Yes and he`s Washington to night where he has no chance to win. And then he`s flying Mexican. You know it sounds -- I think that he`s just kind of enjoying his opportunity to, you know, seeing North America. I don`t understand what the purpose is of tomorrow`s trip to Mexico City.

And I think -- look, the Donald Trump strategy in the primary was I`m going to do everything to get the media talk about me. And it work. In a 17- person field, you know, he basically blocked out the sun for a lot of these other candidates. And that media domination strategy was smart and he deserves credit for it.

But in a one on one general election, this isn`t going to work at all, you know, one of his main problems is the fact that he`s doing horribly with Hispanic voters, worse than Mitt Romney. And Romney did not do well with Hispanic voters, one of the main reasons he lost in `12. Trump is doing worse.

I can`t imagine what he`s going to do tomorrow in Mexico City that it`s going to make him seem more appealing to Hispanic voters. And my guess is he`ll probably turn them off even more.

O`DONNELL: Liz, the earlier reports tonight from Washington Post said that there was a big struggle inside the Trump War Room About this Mexico invitation with advice going into Donald Trump on both ways, go, don`t go. Apparently the "Go to Mexico" advice won in that war room. What do you suppose that the strategic thinking is on the Trump side of going to Mexico tomorrow?

SMITH: Well look, he`s gone out of the death spiral that he was in earlier this summer. But this trajectory of this race is not good for him. So he needs to do something dramatic to win. So I think, look. He`s going to try to go down there in the grandstand and, you know, make a splash. But one candidate have done that.

Look at Mitt Romney`s trip overseas in 2012. It was unmitigated disaster for him. And when -- even when Donald Trump was over in Scotland, they went and praising the Brexit vote. Again, not a great moment for him. So, I think this is a risk they are taking. I don`t think it will pay off for him.

O`DONNELL: Tim we know Donald Trump believes that he can charm anyone. All he has to do is shake that person`s hands and be in their actual presence. And he thinks --

MILLER: He actually didn`t like to shake hands for that with the other person.

SMITH: Germ phobe. Germ phobe.

O`DONNELL: Well OK. But that`s his belief about his own charm.


O`DONNELL: And so, he`s going to bring his charm to the President of Mexico tomorrow.

MILLER: There`s no doubt, you know, he has an enormous ego. And he thinks he can win over any room and, you know, this has been one of his big issues with African-American voters. You know, he see actually, you know, "The Apprentice" and when he was in the space as an entertainer. He actually was pretty popular with African-American viewers.

But the problem is, as soon as he came into the campaign, all of his positions are anathema to the Minorities, Hispanics, Asians, African- Americans. And he does not understand that he can just, you know, he thinks that he can do with his charm and he can`t.

O`DONNELL: Tim and Liz, thanks for joining us. We`re now going to listen to Donald`s Trump. See if he mentions this trip to Mexico.


DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, 2016: Thank you everybody. Unbelievable. Thank you everybody. Thank you.

I am thrilled to be back here in Washington, State of Washington. Great, great people. Thank you very much. Thank you.

I want to thank -- I want to thank if I could because they work so hard. And, you know, outside right now, they have over 8,000 people trying to get in and we set the record. I don`t know how old this building is, but it`s not brand new. And we set the record for attendance tonight.

So, I just want to thank you. Thank you very much. So they`re going to be pouring in as we speak unless you`d like me to come back in half hour and we`ll start? No. No. All right.

I want to thank Suzanne Hutchinson who is in the audience someplace. Suzanne done a great job. Brian Dansel, where id Brian? Brian is over there someplace.

I want to thank Don Benton, Senator Benton. He has been amazing. He said you should come here.


O`DONNELL: All right. We`re going to take a break while those introductions go on. We`ll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: We`d fill that place up so fast I think --



O`DONNELL: The Twitter followers in Donald Trump`s audience there in Everett, Washington might already know that he has just announced via Twitter that he will visit Mexico tomorrow. But he has not yet mentioned that from the podium. Let`s listen.


TRUMP: New future, millions of workers on the sidelines will be returned to the work force. They`ve been taken out of the -- they are going to return and they`re going to return quickly, believe me.

Crumbling roads and bridges and airports will be replaced with the infrastructure our country needs and deserves. Our infrastructure is going to hell. Frankly, I hate to say it; our country is going to hell. And we`re not going to let it happen.

Families trapped in welfare, will be provided with jobs and opportunity. Government will become lean and mean, except, except, it will have a big fat beautiful heart. We will have an effective government, a responsible and honest government for a change.

Our border will be protected. Our children will be safe.

People don`t talk about the inner cities. But I`m talking about the inner cities. They don`t talk about the inner cities. The democrats have taken advantage of African-Americans. They take their vote, they win the election and then they say, "See you in four years." Thanks a lot.


O`DONNELL: The President of Mexico has now officially tweeted that Donald Trump will be meeting tomorrow. The President of Mexico`s tweet says that Donald Trump has accepted that invitation and we`ll meet tomorrow in private with the President Pe¤a Nieto. That`s the ores of Mexico`s official Twitter handle doing that.

We`re rejoining now by Howard Dean and David Corn. Howard Dean, we speculated earlier when you were on that this might happen because all we had at that time was a Washington Post report indicating it might happen. We now have confirmation from Donald Trump and the President of Mexico that they`ll be meeting tomorrow in Mexico. What are you expecting from that?

HOWARD DEAN, AMERICAN POLITICIAN: Well I would expected not to have a meeting --

O`DONNELL: I know that`s the toughest question I`ve ever asked you. I know it`s the toughest question I`ve ever asked.

DEAN: I suspect that the President of Mexico will go out to his folks and tell everybody what a jerk Donald Trump is because what`s he going to say. The guy has insulted 100 and some odd million people living south of the border. He`s out there -- they`re President can`t suddenly say this guy is a reasonable guy. So that`s what I suspect.

Maybe it`s mutually beneficial to both people. I just think it`s on the President -- on the part of the President of Mexico`s part. You know, they have a saying about politics, is if you get in a mud wrestling match with a pig, everybody gets dirty and the pig likes it. And that`s kind of what this meeting is about. I think the President of Mexico has made a big mistake.

O`DONNELL: David Corn, President Pe¤a Nieto is of -- certainly can be a very polished and careful and diplomatic man. And he has certainly sounded like that many times in talking about Donald Trump and talking about the Presidential Election here. And saying that, of course, Mexico will, as always, work as positively as possible with the next President.

And so from the Mexican president`s perspective, we might just see the kind of thing we`ve seen with him frequently in terms of highly public visits of people coming to Mexico.

DAVID CORN, AMERICAN LIBERAL POLITICAL JOURNALIST: I think there`s a way. He may get the better of Donald Trump. I mean it`s hard to be a bully to someone when you`re up close and personal with them. And Donald Trump`s appeal to large number of his voters is based being a bully towards Mexico and to Mexican immigrants.

So, will Trump really be able to do this when he`s sitting next to the President of Mexico? I expect we may see some photos of Trump eating Mexican food. We`ve seen that already. But also the question that Trump would ask Trump if Trump saw Trump taking this trip would be OK. When you come back do you have a commitment from Mexico to pay for the wall? If not, the trip is lame.

I mean, so by his own standards, what is Trump going to achieve with this meeting with Mexico other than to show that he can get on his plane and fly there?

O`DONNELL: Well also Howard Dean, is he going to tell them to stop sending those rapists because that was Donald Trump very first comment as a candidate about Mexico. That Mexican sends criminals and sends rapists. And it is a deliberate action by Mexico and the Mexican Government to do that.

So this President of Mexico stands in effect accused by Donald Trump of sending -- deliberately sending criminals across the boarder.

DEAN: Yes. I suspect the Mexican press is not going to take a strong view of this meeting. And I think this, again, the President is going to be sorry that he did this because domestic consumption is not going to go well. I mean, I would like to think that David is right. But Trump is pretty agile and, you know, he usually makes his events all about himself and that --

CORN: Like the Republicans primary --

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump is now talking about immigration. So let`s listen and see what he says.


TRUMP: Instead of providing free healthcare and jobs to millions of refugees from around the world that we have no idea even where they come from, we should rebuild our inner cities and provide jobs to struggling Americans that have been struggling for years and years. Thank you.

Tonight I`m asking for the vote of every African-American and Hispanic citizen in this country who wants to see a better future, who wants to see real positive change. The inner cities of our country have been run by the democratic machine for so long.

These democratic policies, the policies of Hillary Clinton, the have produced only poverty, joblessness, failing schools, broken homes and rising crime. And it`s only getting worse. They don`t care about you. Remember that. They don`t care about you.

They want your vote and they don`t care. They`ve used you for decades and decades and decades and they will continue to use you. Nearly 4 in 10 African-American children live in poverty, think of that, 4 in 10 are living in poverty. This includes 45 percent of children under the age of 6.

Fifty-eight percent of African-American youth are not working. Meanwhile, another 2 million Hispanic Americans have been added to the ranks of those --

(END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: We`re joined by NBC`s Katy Tur who is at this Trump event in Everett, Washington. Katy what more do we know about Donald Trump`s trip to Mexico tomorrow?

KATY TUR, AMERICAN BROADCAST JOURNALIST, NBC NEWS: We know that this is just coming together in the past few hours. Reports that it`s -- the conversation about it started over the weekend. But it didn`t leak to the press until about an hour and a half ago. Since then Donald Trump`s himself has tweeted he will be going to Mexico tomorrow to meet with President Nieto.

And President Nieto`s official campaign, or official presidency Twitter account down in Mexico confirming that they will happen. Also confirming that they extend invitation to both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and that Donald Trump accepted. This is a hastily put together trip, certainly, a usually these sorts of things take a few weeks to get underway because of all the security concerns or reports that there are some significant security concerns when it comes to Donald Trump, especially if he`s going to be in any public place.

But we do know now though that this is going to be a private meeting. Of course, Donald Trump`s relationship with Mexico has been the subject of controversy since day one of his campaign when he announced his candidacy by saying some Mexican undocumented immigrants are rapist and criminals. And that Mexico was sending them over the border. Of course as we all know, he said that Mexico will pay for the wall between America and Mexico.

Mexico flatly denying that that will happen. So this is certainly a very interesting development to have Donald Trump go down there and discuss relations directly with the Mexican President. This comes on a day that he will be giving a clarification on his immigration policy speech. His campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway is saying tonight that this will be the most forceful immigration speech that American politic has ever seen.

They`re being adamant, that there`s going to be no path to legalization, no amnesty, no sanctuary cities. This is after a bit -- or lack of clarity on that subject now for the last week. Donald Trump sending to open the door to path of legalization on a Town Hall with Sean Hannity last week, and then quickly turning around the next night and saying there would be no such path.

That Mexican immigrants who are undocumented immigrants would have to leave the country and come back in to reapply for a legal status here. So, what will result from this meeting, we`re going to have to wait and see whether this results in Donald Trump`s softening his position towards Mexico or hardening it. We`re going to find out tomorrow when Donald Trump takes the stage to deliver his immigration remarks.

O`DONNELL: Katy, the Trump campaign has to anticipate the President of Mexico saying tomorrow both to Donald Trump and publicly that Mexico will never pay for Donald Trump`s wall. What is the Trump`s campaign -- how do they anticipate dealing with that?

TUR: It`s unclear how they`re going to do with that. All I can tell you in the past when Felipe Calder¢n or Vicente Fox has said this wall will not be paid for by Mexico. Donald Trump has responded by saying the wall, just got ten feet higher. So they`ve been openly antagonistic to the idea of Mexico refusing to pay for a wall.

They also haven`t been exactly clear on how they would get Mexico to pay for such a wall, how it would benefit them as well as the United States. When they first laid out his immigration policy last year and the early fall of last year, they said that it would be paid through visas essentially. They were going to raise the prices on visas for immigrants coming into this country or even tourist visas. And that in turn would end up helping the cost of building that wall. And that is how Mexico would end up paying for the wall certainly around about way of getting that done.

But if they come out tomorrow, the Mexican government comes out tomorrow and President Nieto says, there`s just no way that they are going to be paying for this wall. I`m not entirely sure how the campaign will respond to that and whether that will be detrimental in any way to his cause here in the states or detrimental any way to his face of support.

O`DONNELL: Katy Tur, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.

With David Corn, and Howard Dean back with us. David Corn, obviously, the President of Mexico has his own politics to deal with in meeting with Donald Trump tomorrow. Certainly, he is going to need to appear forceful in opposition to some of Donald Trump`s ideas.

CORN: Well, all politics is local and sounds like tomorrow, they may be local as well. Sorry for the bad Spanish proverb. But, you know, he obviously sees an interest, the President of Mexico in calling Donald Trump whom, you know, I guess, why calling the Great Satan to Mexico to, you know. And they`re making him come down and see him and then come out of the meeting and be able to describe it any way he wants to -- since it`s going to be a private meeting to his public and show and look how powerful and influential I am.

I got this big blow hard from the north to come down and see me. So, I assume that he having become President of Mexico, knows what he`s doing from his own perspective. The interesting thing and this where Howard and I have been talking about earlier tonight, is to what, you know, who will get the best of whom in this very fraught situation if Donald Trump sits down with the president of Mexico.

O`DONNELL: Well, this is President Pe¤a Nieto`s idea. And so, Howard Dean, he sat around for some period of time with his advisers thinking about this, strategizing this before issuing these invitations. So, he knew before he issued the invitation what his objective would be in a meeting with Donald Trump. And so, he`s certainly had time to think about what he wants to do tomorrow.

DEAN: I`ve got to believe that when he and his folks sat around doing This, the last thing they thought would happen was that Donald Trump would say yes, given his rhetoric about Mexican`s and other Latinos during this campaign. I think he was hoping that Hillary was going to come see him which would have clearly enhanced his status as a Mexican President. I think the last thing they thought of was that Donald Trump was going to accept it and then they got themselves in a jam. And what are they going to do?

CORN: You know, there`s one interesting thing about Donald Trump. He judges people by what they think of him.

O`DONNELL: Exactly. Yes.

CORN: So like that`s how he thinks. So that`s why he`s a big fan of Putin because said something nice about him. So here the President of Mexico paying him some respect and well I`m sure grieving in a cordial if not respectful way. And I wonder how Trump will be with that. Will he be seduced by the President of Mexico or will he come out and hammer him the way a lot of members of his base would like to see.

O`DONNELL: But one of the things that Donald Trump craves is being taken seriously. And in this instance, the President of Mexico is giving him what he craves. He`s taking him seriously. He`s treating him in terms of this invitation he`s treating him as the equal of Hillary Clinton.

And Howard Dean, it could be that the President of Mexico wins this little charm exchange between them and the softening that Donald Trump has been experiencing on immigration policy, gets even softer after meeting with the President of Mexico.

DEAN: Well the fact -- Trump, if he`s going to be -- have any serious chance of winning this election, has got to soften his immigration policy any way. Maybe what his intention to do is come back and make up whole bunch of stuff and claim that he`s got all kind of concessions of the President of Mexico. And then that`s his excuse to his rabbit base to quote and unquote "soften".

Through plain fact is and we`ve discussed this before. He has zero chance of getting any significant numbers of Latino`s or African Americans or any other minority group in America voting for him. They`re not going to forget what he has said about them for a year which has been the most scorching rhetoric I`ve heard in my lifetime, other than the segregationist back in the 50s. So, you know, I did some scratching on my head. I had been for a long time about Donald Trump.


CORN: You know, the thing is you -- I think we can expect or we can predict with some guarantee here, whatever happens in Mexico, it will probably step on the speech he intends to give tomorrow night as well. I don`t know if he can do these two things at once.

O`DONNELL: Well it`s -- we`ll certainly be part of the speech he gives tomorrow night.

DEAN: Maybe --

O`DONNELL: David, I mean he`s --

DEAN: Who knows?

O`DONNELL: How can you not report (ph) to it.

CORN: Who knows how it will affect that speech?


DEAN: Yes. Well that`s what so fascinating about this whole race is why is you`re just giving him 20 minutes of time. Well nobody has any idea of what this guy is going to do next and it makes for great TV.

O`DONNELL: Exactly. Howard Dean and David Corn, thank you for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it. Our breaking news coverage of Donald Trump`s trip to Mexico tomorrow and his speech tonight continues live now with Chris Hayes. Hey Chris.