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The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell, Transcript 6/29/2016

Guests: Steve Clemons, Rick Wilson, Howard Dean, Lis Smith, Ed Goeas, Malcolm Nance, David Fahrenthold

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL Date: June 29, 2016 Guest: Steve Clemons, Rick Wilson, Howard Dean, Lis Smith, Ed Goeas, Malcolm Nance, David Fahrenthold

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: That does it for us tonight, we`ll see you again tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell.

Lawrence, I apologize, I am in a new studio and I didn`t know where the clock was, and I`ve gone even later than usual. I`m very sorry --

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Take your time, I have stuff to do here. So, Rachel, it turns out, and this is always the case that politicians always become a bit more endearing when they quit.

MADDOW: Yes --

O`DONNELL: There`s just nothing like quitting --

MADDOW: It frees them up to be more human.

O`DONNELL: Yes, they can actually be a version of themselves.

MADDOW: Thanks, man.

O`DONNELL: Thanks, Rachel. So, Donald Trump, richest man in the world, right? Well, according to him, richest person ever to run for president in history. So rich.

So, who do you think has given more to charity? Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton? Bill and Hillary Clinton who file jointly as taxpayers.

Who`s given more to charity? We will have that answer for you coming up. And today, Donald Trump and President Obama went north.

Donald Trump went to Bangor, Maine, and said things that are so crazy, and I mean so crazy, we`re going to play them for you twice.

And I defy any of you, any of you Trump supporters to make any sense of any of the words Donald Trump speaks.

And also up north was President Obama, who went to Ottawa in Canada, where he met with the heads of Mexico and Canada.

There we have the meeting of the heads of state of the NAFTA group. And the President had much more serious things to say on this day after the attacks in Turkey.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The prayers of the American people are with the people of Turkey.


OBAMA: We`re still learning all the facts.

TRUMP: So, we can`t do waterboarding.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: According to the Geneva Conventions, it`s a war crime.

TRUMP: We are going to make America great again. We`re also going to make America safe again.

OBAMA: We`re going to do what`s necessary to protect our people.

TRUMP: You know, they say, oh, can we trust Donald with the button? I`m the one that didn`t want to go into Iraq, just so we understand it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you for invading Iraq?

TRUMP: Yes, I guess so, I wish the first time it was done correctly.

OBAMA: We`ve had times throughout our history where anti-immigration sentiment is exploited by demagogues.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, PRIME MINISTER, CANADA: Regardless of electoral rhetoric - -

TRUMP: We`re going to build a wall.

TRUDEAU: Canada, the United States and Mexico will continue to have tremendously close relationships.

TRUMP: It`s going to be a big wall.

OBAMA: And during my administration, we`ve boosted U.S. exports to Canada and Mexico by about 50 percent.

TRUMP: I`m angry at our leaders who are so stupid.


OBAMA: That supports about 2.8 million American jobs, giving in to protectionism in this 21st century economy will not work.


It will not work.


O`DONNELL: President Obama went to Ottawa today for a meeting of the NAFTA countries; the United States, Canada, and Mexico.

At a press conference when the leaders of Mexico and Canada were asked about the possibility of working with a Trump presidency, they responded politely, professionally, and diplomatically.

That they believe that they can work with whoever wins the presidency of the United States. And then President Obama said this.


OBAMA: We`ve had times throughout our history where anti-immigration sentiment is exploited by demagogues. It was directed at the Irish, it was directed at Pols and Italians.

And you can go back and read what was said about those groups and it`s identical to what they`re now saying about Mexicans or Guatemalans or Salvadorians or Muslims or Asians, same stuff.

They`re different. They`re not going to fit. They won`t assimilate. They bring crime -- same arguments. You go back to the 1800s, the language is identical.

But guess what? They kept coming. And they kept coming because America offered possibility for their children and their grandchildren.

And even if they were initially discriminated against, they understood that our system will over time allow them to become part of this one American family.

And so we should take some of this rhetoric seriously and answer it, boldly and clearly. But you shouldn`t think that that is representative of how the American people think.


O`DONNELL: Donald Trump was almost as far north as President Obama. Today, candidate Trump appeared at a rally in Maine, which apportions its electoral votes by congressional district.

And so the Trump campaign believes that they have a chance of picking up one electoral vote in the district that Donald Trump visited today.

Donald Trump seemed a bit at a loss of what to talk about since he doesn`t own a golf course in Maine, and so, he kept talking about where he was last week, instead of where he was today.


TRUMP: I went to Scotland, and it was right after the vote, which, by the way, I hate to say, but they asked me, what do you think?

I said, I think it`s going to pass. I think they`re going to seek independence.


I think they`re going to seek independence. And it doesn`t affect me much, I don`t think, but I think they`re going to seek it, and that`s it.

And Hillary and Obama called it totally wrong.


O`DONNELL: We will have more of what Donald Trump said in our next segment. Where you`ll hear him say, what I think is the single most incoherent thing he has ever said.

But you be the judge. Donald Trump is the most unpopular presidential candidate in the history of polling here in the United States, and he has now established himself as the most unpopular presidential candidate in the view of the rest of the world.

According to a Pew global poll, 85 percent of Europeans say they have no confidence in Donald Trump to do the right thing, regarding world affairs, only 9 percent have confidence in Donald Trump.

Fifty nine percent of Europeans said they have confidence in Hillary Clinton, 27 percent did not.

Seventy seven percent of Europeans said they have confidence in President Obama, and 22 percent do not have that confidence.

In a speech tonight to the Canadian parliament in Ottawa, President Obama said this.


OBAMA: The world is by almost every measure less violent than ever before. But it remains driven by old divisions and fresh hatreds.

The world`s more connected than ever before, but even as it spreads knowledge and the possibility of greater understanding between peoples, it also empowers terrorists, who spread hatred and death.

Most recently in Orlando and Istanbul. Democracy is not easy. It`s hard. Living up to our ideals can be difficult even in the best of times, and it can be harder when the future seems uncertain or when in response to legitimate fears and frustrations.

There are those who offer a politics of us versus them. A politics that scapegoats others, the immigrant, the refugee, someone who seems different than us.

We have to call this mentality what it is -- a threat to the values that we profess, the values we seek to defend.

It`s because we respect all people that the world looks to us as an example. Our Muslim friends and neighbors who run businesses and serve in our governments and in our armed forces and are friends with our children and play on our sports teams.

We`ve got to stand up against the slander and the hate leveled against those who look or worship differently.

That`s our obligation, that`s who we are. That`s what makes America special. That`s what makes Canada special.


Here in Canada.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Steve Clemons, editor-at-large for "The Atlantic" and an Msnbc contributor. Also with us, Rick Wilson, Republican strategist.

Steve, what the President had to say in Canada tonight to the parliament is clearly beyond the comprehension of Donald Trump.

But imagine for us, if you will, a Trump presidency in which he has to address a body like that. Is there anything you`ve heard Donald Trump say or his speech writers come up with that you can imagine delivering in that setting?

STEVE CLEMONS, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, THE ATLANTIC: No, I mean, I really can`t, other than Donald Trump is going to walk into those corridors and say to allies that we are tightly entwined with and share a common destiny with on this continent that they`re not doing enough.

That their free-riding on American power and they`re screwing, you know, American citizens. And it`s going to make America smaller.

So, you know, I understand where many people feel -- you know, many of those people who support Donald Trump feel left behind in our economy.

But he is going to aggravate those problems, not solve them with the kind of rhetoric he`ll unleash in a place like Ottawa or Mexico City.

O`DONNELL: Rick Wilson, I can`t imagine that there`s a Trump voter out there who cares the way Donald Trump is viewed outside of the United States or even in the United States for that matter.

But is there any of that old Republican-style voter out there who looks at that kind of worldwide embarrassment that the Trump candidacy is and thinks, we must avoid this?

RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, sure, Lawrence. I mean, look, 60-plus percent of Republicans didn`t vote for Donald Trump in the primary.

And their nervousness and tension about whether Donald Trump has the temperament to become president and to serve as president is just exacerbated by this kind of thing.

Where although he thinks America wants to entirely withdraw from the world, you know, these folks understand that we have deep ties of friendship and mutual interest and treaty obligations with NATO, with countries across Europe, with the United Kingdom, particularly.

And the fact that he treats all of our allies with the sort of disdain and talks about how we`re going to become basically a mercenary power, where they`re going to pay for our -- pay for our protection.

And yet -- and yet is perfectly comfortable praising Vladimir Putin and even -- and even the North Korean state, you know, because they admire him in some way.

He responds to that more than he does to the -- to the generational ties we have with some of our longest standing allies. It`s really disturbing to Republican voters.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what Donald Trump said on "Fox News" tonight.


TRUMP: She`s not going to get tougher, it started under her, it was a little group of people, it could have been wiped out quickly and effectively then, now it`s a very large group of people and it`s only getting bigger.

And if she gets in, it will be massive, and we won`t even have a country anymore. We`re going to be afraid to walk outside.


O`DONNELL: Steve Clemons, I should have introduced that correctly. That was him talking about Hillary Clinton`s approach to ISIS and he gets it, he takes it to the point of saying, we`re going to be afraid to walk outside.

CLEMONS: It`s ridiculous. I mean, I have to tell you, you know, I have a lot of admiration for Hillary Clinton.

But one of my -- you know, friendly criticisms of her is that her clutch is stuck in attack, tough-minded, hard-edged, let`s go knock them out, you know, military positions.

Donald Trump is completely wrong. He`s fabricating, you know, completely wrong image of Hillary Clinton.

And there are a lot of people, and I think Hillary Clinton actually welcomes this, you know, want to debate when do you use force, when do you not use force?

But the notion that she`s soft on terrorists, soft on anyone is ridiculous. Progressives support Bernie Sanders in part because they fear how tough Hillary Clinton is.

So, he`s making an allusion that`s completely unconnected to the reality of Hillary Clinton.

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump apparently defines soft as being not ready to waterboard. Let`s listen to him today. He`s back to waterboarding.


TRUMP: And you know, we have laws to uphold. We have laws, they don`t have laws. So, we can`t do waterboarding, but they can do chopping off heads, drowning people in steel cages.

They can do whatever they want to do. And you know, they eat dinner like us. Can you imagine them sitting around the table or wherever they`re eating their dinner, talking about the Americans don`t do waterboarding and yet we chop off heads.

They probably think we`re weak, we`re stupid, we don`t know what we`re doing, we have no leadership. You know, you have to fight fire with fire.


O`DONNELL: And Rick Wilson, John McCain tried to explain to Donald Trump once again today that it`s against the Geneva Conventions, waterboarding is a war crime.

But there`s no getting through to him on this.

WILSON: Look, I mean, this is a guy who suggested that we kill innocent civilians who are related to people who commit terrorism.

Now, look, there are plenty of things to critique the Obama administration, Hillary Clinton on foreign policy and on the way we`ve dealt with ISIS.

But no one in their right mind thinks adopting things that are war crimes and forcing U.S. troops to commit war crimes, whether it`s waterboarding or whether it`s killing civilians, is a rational policy moving forward.

It doesn`t make our country safer in any way whatsoever. And the -- and the fact that Trump has a sort of moral equivalency, almost a desire to act like ISIS does, to see -- to have a boundless kind of a moral policy like ISIS does, it should disturb people.

I mean, it doesn`t disturb his folks, but it should disturb people who have -- who believe that we should have some moral underpinning to our society and our -- and our -- and our foreign policy.

O`DONNELL: Steve Clemons, a quick -- before you go, you`re out at the Aspen Ideas Festival, John Kerry was out there before -- this week before the --


O`DONNELL: Attacks in Turkey. Do you expect to see Secretary of State John Kerry on the campaign trail eventually for Hillary Clinton?

CLEMONS: I think he`s going to continue to do what he`s doing, which is sort of engage in, you know, diplomatic bridge building and problem-solving around the world.

But use it as a way to talk about what his predecessor would have done, could have done. It`s different than the campaign trail.

I can`t imagine John Kerry taking his eye off the ball on his job, but I think he`s going to use it as a foil to talk about what Hillary Clinton could do and what he knows she can do in that as president of the United States.

O`DONNELL: Steve Clemons and Rick Wilson, thank you both for joining us, really appreciate it.

CLEMONS: Thank you --

WILSON: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, Donald Trump, how much money has he actually given to charity? We know how much he has promised to charity time and time again, but has he actually delivered?

And has Hillary Clinton given more money to charity than Donald Trump? And also coming up, the craziest thing Donald Trump has said this week and possibly as crazy as anything he has said in the entire campaign.

If you listen to the content, the actual words that he`s using, I ask you to provide the diagnosis. That`s coming up.


O`DONNELL: We have breaking news. U.S.-led coalition aircraft attacked Islamic State targets near the Iraqi city of Fallujah according to reports.

A U.S. official tells "Reuters" that as many as 250 ISIS fighters were killed and at least 40 vehicles destroyed. That would be one of the most deadly strikes against the group to date.

We`ll have more on ISIS and the attack in Turkey coming up.


O`DONNELL: The most incoherent speaker in the history of American politics said this today.


TRUMP: I`m all for free trade. The problem with free trade is you need smart people making deals. We don`t have good deals.

And free trade is killing us. I want great deals, I don`t care if they`re free, I don`t care if they`re fair, I don`t care if they`re good.

I don`t care if they`re horrendous. I just want great deals. I`ll do it all different ways. I`ll do it all different ways.



O`DONNELL: Now, that is Donald Trump`s incoherence at full throttle. That is the level of gibberish that makes mental health professionals question Donald Trump`s mental health.

He begins by saying, "I`m all for free trade." He then says, "free trade is killing us." Then he says, "I want great deals."

And then he says that a great deal doesn`t have to be fair. Just think about that part. A great deal doesn`t have to be fair.

Then he says a great deal doesn`t have to be good. And then he says a great deal can be horrendous. Think about that. It can be that. It can be horrendous and still be a great deal.

A great -- he thinks the word "great" and "horrendous" are the same word. We really should listen to this again. This is someone who has lost complete control of his words.

We`re listening to someone who has close to a 50 percent chance of becoming the next president of the United States.

And this right here, this is the moment where incoherence turns to madness.


TRUMP: I want great deals, I don`t care if they`re free, I don`t care if they`re fair, I don`t care if they`re good.

I don`t care if they`re horrendous. I just want great deals. I`ll do it all different ways. I`ll do it all different ways.



O`DONNELL: He says things like that almost every day and the media completely glosses right past it. He -- what he just said makes absolutely no sense.

It makes no sense because that was Donald Trump talking, the real Donald Trump. That was not Donald Trump reading a teleprompter with words supplied by a speechwriter.

Here`s what it sounds like when he does that.


TRUMP: I`m going to tell our NAFTA partners that I intend to immediately renegotiate the terms of that agreement to get a better deal.

And if they don`t agree to a renegotiation, which they might not, because they`re so used to having their own way.

Not with Trump, they won`t have their own way.


Then I will submit under article 2205 of the NAFTA agreement that America intends to withdraw from the deal.


O`DONNELL: It`s not exactly an original idea in presidential politics. Donald Trump is not the first presidential candidate to come up with that idea.

But he is the first Republican presidential nominee to say it.


OBAMA: There`s no doubt that NAFTA needs to be amended. And I`ve already said that I would contact the President of Mexico and the Prime Minister of Canada to make sure that the labor and environmental agreements are actually enforceable.

CLINTON: I will review every trade agreement, I`m going to ask for revisions that I think will actually benefit our country, particularly our workers, our exporters.

And I`m going to go to the international community and get the kind of enforceable agreements and standards on labor and environment that we have been seeking as Democrats.


O`DONNELL: I knew when I heard them say that in 2007 that they weren`t telling the truth. A lot of people in Washington understood that they weren`t telling the truth.

And indeed Austan Goolsbee; an economic adviser then to the Clinton campaign, got in a bit of a public mess when it was revealed that he secretly told the Canadians, don`t worry, don`t worry, an Obama administration won`t reopen NAFTA.

Then, of course, as President Barack Obama never even had a meeting, not even a single discussion about even the possibility of reopening NAFTA.

And Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State never suggested that they sit down and have that discussion. They didn`t mean it when they were campaigning.

NAFTA bashing is not new. It became the currency of the Democratic presidential campaign in 2007, 2008, and then again this year.

And you can be sure that a Clinton presidency would follow the Obama model and not even have a meeting, not even a private discussion about changing NAFTA.

But a Trump presidency probably would put NAFTA at risk, and the Trump campaign is now using NAFTA and trade policy to appeal to Democratic voters who have been opposed to NAFTA from the start.


TRUMP: There is one thing that Bernie Sanders and I are in complete accord with, and that`s trade. He said we`re being ripped off, I say we`re being ripped off.

I have been saying it for years, he`s been saying it for years. I have traveled to more places where we have factories that prior to NAFTA were booming.

And Bill Clinton signed NAFTA. Remember that.


O`DONNELL: It turns out the control room is actually listening to me and they just reported that I misstated that Austan Goolsbee worked for the Clinton campaign.

Of course, he worked for the Obama campaign, and you all remember that controversy when Austan Goolsbee got caught communicating to the Canadians that, don`t worry, the Obama administration won`t touch NAFTA.

Joining us now, Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont and former chairman of the DNC, he`ll be a super delegate.

Super delegate for Hillary Clinton at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia. Howard, it is fascinating to see what NAFTA has become in presidential campaigning.

Of course, Al Gore didn`t campaign against it as the nominee, John Kerry didn`t campaign against it, but here we are now, and Donald Trump is now using it to reach over to try to pull Bernie voters his way.

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR: Yes, he is. You know, here`s the thing about NAFTA, that I think people don`t really fully understand.

The people that are supporting Donald Trump, and to a much lesser extent, but a real extent, the people who supported Bernie Sanders have been left behind by globalization.

Their skills haven`t caught up, they have been -- and many of them have lost their jobs in the 2008 recession, they`re not coming back.

So, NAFTA has become a symbol. What NAFTA really is, is security. It`s national security. Mexico is now the 20th largest economy on the face of the earth.

That buys us a stable southern neighbor that we don`t have to worry about. The corruption is down, it`s become a true democracy, which it wasn`t when NAFTA was put into place.

So, you know, I understand that I can say all these things, I`m a beneficiary of globalization. What we`ve got to do is figure out how to make NAFTA work for everybody and not get rid of it.

That would be unbelievably stupid, as the British are going to find out if they do, in fact, leave the European Union.

O`DONNELL: Well, yes, I mean, Brexit is a kind of hyper version of NAFTA, but the European Union is, it started off as basically NAFTA in a European version.

It was basically just a trade agreement, and then they added layers and layers and layers of governing to it over decades and it became this bigger, unwieldy thing.

But I suspect if you had a referendum in the United States now on leaving NAFTA, it would win overwhelmingly. And Democratic Party politicians would be all in favor of it.

DEAN: It might, but it would -- if it did, it would be because of the kind of misinformation that happened on the Brexit campaign.

Where, you know, the people who voted for Brexit were grossly misinformed. They were told all kinds of things that just simply were not true and vicious anti-immigration sentiment was used in order to get that passed.

When it looked like the "remain" people were going to win with three weeks to go, all of a sudden this torrent of anti-immigration rhetoric came out of the -- of the "leave" side, and that`s what Trump really is.

Trump is the worst in populism. Trump is -- what Trump is doing is saying a whole lot of things that are just completely not true, and saying, as you pointed out earlier, a whole lot of things that make no sense, whatsoever.

But what he shows is anger. Now, when you do -- when you get up as president of the United States, or a potential president of the United States, and talk about waterboarding people and torturing them.

And you think that`s going to in some way preserve the United States of America, you don`t know what the United States of America is about.

And I think that`s where Donald Trump`s problem is. He doesn`t understand what this country really is about.

O`DONNELL: Dr. Dean, before you go, could I have a minute with you as a clinician? I just want to get your diagnosis of what -- here we heard him, he completely lost control of words and any meaning there.

Where he`s saying a great deal can be a horrendous deal. A great deal doesn`t have to be fair, it doesn`t have to be good. Now, I know --

DEAN: Right --

O`DONNELL: In medical school, you studied some psychiatry, neurology, is there anything you can help us with here in diagnostic terms, in terms of what we just saw?

DEAN: Probably not, because I haven`t practiced for a while. But I can tell you one thing, I will predict, Lawrence, tonight, that Donald Trump will do more to try to get out of the three debates he`s supposed to have with Hillary Clinton than you`ve seen any previous nominee.

He gets up and talks like that on a stage with Hillary Clinton, he would d be lucky to get 26 percent of the vote.

O`DONNELL: Yes. Utter humiliation. Howard Dean, thank you very much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

DEAN: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Up next, in the war room, the Trump campaign and the Clinton campaign going after a category of voters that the republicans have never lost.



O`DONNELL: Time for tonight`s war room. The thinly populated Trump war room is depending on a huge turnout from what pollsters call white working class voters. Here is two-time presidential loser, Donald Trump endorser, Rick Santorum talking about Donald Trump and those voters.


RICK SANTORUM, (R) FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is giving them hope. He is sending a message that has not been getting out with either democrats or republicans. Talking about the impact of globaLisation, talking about the impact of immigration, and how it is affecting these communities and has for the last 30 or 40 years.

And that is exciting. And I can tell you, in western Pennsylvania, particular northern Pennsylvania, the Lehigh vaLley, Donald Trump is going to get a lot of votes come November.


O`DONNELL: The new NBC "Wall Street Journal" poll shows Donald Trump leading Hillary Clinton by 23 points among white voters without a college degree. That is similar to Mitt Romney`s lead of 21 points in that category four years ago.

Among white voters with a college degree, Hillary Clinton is now tied with Donald Trump within the margin of error at 44 and 43. Mitt Romney did much better with those voters, winning that category by 12 points last time. That is the norm for republican candidates. They always win easily in that category.

In fact, in the history of modern polling, since 1952, no democratic presidential candidate has ever won the college-educated, white vote. Donald Trump just might be the first republican to lose that vote.

And with 131 days left for the campaign war rooms, joining us tonight in "The Last Word" war room, Ed Goeas, veteran of the Scott Walker, John McCain and George W. Bush Presidential Campaign war rooms and Lis Smith, veteran of the Martin O`Malley and Pres. Obama Campaign war rooms. T

So, Lis, Hillary Clinton could make history, not just the first woman president, the first democrat ever to win that college-educated white vote. I am shocked by this. I had no idea it went back that far.

LIS SMITH, DIRECTOR OF RAPID RESPONSE OBAMA 2012: Yes, no, it is looking good for her there. And I think if I were in the Clinton war room, I would say, "Do not give up on the white working class." I do not think she can necessarily win white working class voters, but I think she can take a page out of the playbook we used against Romney in 2012 when I worked for President Obama.

And what we did there was went straight to his strength as a businessman. I think they can go right at Donald Trump and say, "He is a liar. He is a fraud. He is a snake oil salesman, who cares more about his bottom line than yours." And so when is out there, shedding crocodile tears about factories leaving the U.S., jobs leaving the U.S., they can point to his business career.

And when he had a fashion line, he did not go and have it produced in Ohio and Wisconsin, he engaged in a global labor race to the bottom. He went to China. He went to Mexico and all these countries. They can also point to his economic policies. You know, rolling back Dodd-Frank, letting Wall Street run wild, tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires.

You know, all the typical elitist economic policies. So, I think they have a great opportunity to show that he is not a champion for the white working class. He is just more of the same that republicans have had to offer.

O`DONNELL: Ed, I have a suspicion that this category of voting is not so dependent or attentive to issues. With such a consistent pattern over time, do you guys in the republican war rooms have a theory about why you have always, winning in the white non-college category and the white college category?

ED GOEAS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I look at it more specifically, in terms of middle class, white middle class voters that we have been winning by 15, 16, 17 points in every presidential election recently. And it is the issues we have as a party that is very appealing.

I do think when we get into talking about polling, first of all, everyone is trying to divide up the polls right now with a scalpel, when in fact, in reality, there is not much movement going on. We had both of these candidates come into this race, a year ago with a 55 percent unfavorable rating. Hillary is running between mid-50s to high 50s unfavorable. Trump is running a bit higher than that. High 50s to mid 60s.

But there has not been much movement. There is very deep feelings about these two candidates. And the same token as what was just laid out, what you can say about Trump. These same voters see Hillary Clinton as not trustworthy. They see her as a part of corruption going on in Washington. And so there is a distrust there also that can be played to.

The bottom line, when I look at the polls, from a war room situation, there is only 3 percent of the country are favorable towards both these candidates; 3 percent. 26 percent of the country are unfavorable towards both of these. There is going to be a lot of back and forth on these polls about not only the specific group you are talking about, but all the groups.

Because right now we are in uncharted waters that anything can happen. I think everyone keeps looking for one or two events to change what has been the norm for the last year, and it is not going to happen. It is going to be a long and drawn out, very nasty campaign pointed at the negatives of both of these candidates.

O`DONNELL: And Lis, people thought we might have saw that event in Orlando, and at least in one poll there seemed to be a big separation between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Now, they are all tightened up again.

SMITH: Well, I mean, every day, a different poll comes out. But I think, the difference that Trump is so reliant on white working class voters. That is his Trump card. And I think that democrats do have an ability to erode some of his support there.

And as Ed said, it is not like Secretary Clinton is the strongest candidate, but she has been smart and their war room has been smart in putting out AFL-CIO and credible messengers on this too to fight Donald Trump.

O`DONNELL: We have to leave it there for tonight. Lis Smith and Ed Goeas, thank you both very much for joining us. Appreciate it.

GOEAS: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Up next, President Obama addressed the Canadian parliament to a standing ovation tonight.





UNIDENTIFIED GROUP OF SPEAKERS: Four more years. Four more years. Four more years.


O`DONNELL: That was the response from Canada`s parliament tonight for President Obama. It comes on a day when a new poll shows that President Obama, if he were a candidate, would be beating Donald Trump now by about nine points. President Obama`s speech tonight repeatedly got applause and standing ovations, but this part of the speech was the part that got the biggest applause.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA, (D) U.S. PRESIDENT: Here in Canada, a woman has already risen to the highest office in the land. In America, for the first time, a woman is the presumptive nominee of a major party and perhaps president


I have a bias on these issues, but -- but our work will not be finished until all women in our country are truly equal. Paid equally, treated equally, given the same opportunities as men; when our girls have the same opportunities as our boys. That is who we need to be.





JOHN BRENNAN, AMERICA`S CENTRAL INVESTIGATION AGENCY DIRECTOR: It would be surprising to me that ISIL is not trying to hit us, both in the region, as well as in our homeland.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Malcolm Nance, MSNBC Contributor, and former counterterrorism intelligence officer. Malcolm, what is your threat assessment post-Turkey now for the United States in this situation?

MALCOLM NANCE, FMR. MEMBER OF U.S. WATERBOARDING PROGRAM: I think the situation has not changed. I mean, we just saw this inspired attack that occurred in Orlando, which may have been inspired, that has not been determined, by ISIS ideology.

But we have been struck much greater in 9/11 2001, where we lost almost 3,000 American citizens. The attacks that are being taken place by Isil right now are extremely small scale and they are wherever they can get their capability.

So there is some risk, but right now we have all, you know, all intelligence and all law enforcement standing up against this organization. And we can do only the best we can do until we get some intelligence.

O`DONNELL: And it looked like what happened in Turkey was an organized effort, multiple people involved in it. What we saw in Orlando looks like possibly just the lone wolf category with no one else involved.

It seems like the individual operator is probably harder to intercept than people who have to communicate with each other as they coordinate something like this over a matter of weeks.

NANCE: Of course, when you have an organized terrorist cell, as you saw in Paris, as you saw in Istanbul and Brussels, they are a team. That team has to work together, it has to do its logistics together, has to gather weapons system and it has to communicate with people. That gives them vulnerabilities. An individual, as the ISIS calls them, lone Jihadi, everything that is going on is within his head.

And the only way you can get indications is if you only see him in the act of gathering together the materials that he wants or he or she wants to use for his terrorist operation, or some indication, electronically, that they are doing communications with an inspirational group. That is as best as you can do, thus far. And it is keeping an eye on those indicators that law enforcement has the advantage.

O`DONNELL: And what is your assessment of where we stand with ISIS now, given the military push against them?

NANCE: Yes. ISIS is an organization that is under complete pressure. Why, just the day -- yesterday, there was a major ISIS movement in Fallujah, which may have killed as many as -- you know, the Iraqi Air Force responded to them, their retreat, and they may have killed as many as 250 of their fighters in one push.

ISIS is an organization that may be in its last year, physically, within the caliphate of Iraq and northern Syria that they have taken. And as we place that pressure down, like a ball of mercury, they are going to break out and branch off.

And you may see more increased lone Jihadi threats and smaller team threats, like you saw in Istanbul, carrying out attacks. But that means that they are under extreme pressure to the point where international terrorism is all that they have to use.

O`DONNELL: Malcolm Nance, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Appreciate it.

NANCE: It is my pleasure.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, a "Washington Post" investigative report about the charity of scrooge. I mean, Donald Trump.




DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Is it for me personally a good thing? A bad thing? Will I get more votes? Will I get less votes? Nobody knows. Who the hell knows, but it is for our vets, and you are going to like it, because we raised over $5 million in one day.


We actually raised close to $6, to be totally honest.



O`DONNELL: Since leaving the White House, Bill and Hillary Clinton have gotten very, very rich. They have a combined income of over $250 million in those years. Donald Trump claims that he is much, much richer than the Clintons. He claims to be worth $10 billion, without supplying any proof of his net worth. And I mean, no proof.

Several analysts have proven that he lies about his net worth, which could be as low as a few hundred million, which is still very, very rich; but apparently, not rich enough to be very charitable. The Clintons consistently give away about 10 percent of their income. They have donated about $25 million of their own personal money to charity since leaving the White House.

David Fahrenthold of "The Washington Post" has become a student of Donald Trump`s relationship to charity. It was David Fahrenthold who revealed in "The Washington post" that Donald Trump had given none of the money that he pledged to give to veteran organizations back in January.

Now David Fahrenthold has studied all of Donald Trump`s charitable giving and it turns out he is not quite as generous as the Clintons. Joining us now is "The Washington post" is David Fahrenthold. David, what did you find?

DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, "THE WASHINGTON POST" REPORTER: Well, we went looking back over the last few years to see if we could find any evidence that Donald Trump had given any of his own personal money away to charity. And we looked back, before that $1 million gift to veterans that you talked about, that Trump gave under pressure a few weeks ago, we looked back.

OK, before then, when was his last gift to veterans, to charity? The only one I could find between 2008 and this is May was one gift between $5,000 and $10,000, and that was back in 2009. There could be others out there, but that is the only one I have found, and I have called at least 200 groups that have ties to Trump.

O`DONNELL: And so in that period of time, the Obamas have been more charitable than Donald Trump. The Obamas, who file jointly, have declared $1,600,000 in charitable contributions, slightly above that. It is about 15 percent of their income. And so in the Obamas, Clintons, Trump sweepstakes here, it is not even close. Donald Trump is the worst of them.

FAHRENTHOLD: What is interesting about Trump is that he has made claims he is going to give the proceeds to various things. "The Apprentice," his books, Trump University to charity.

O`DONNELL: David, he claimed at one point that he was going to give his entire "Apprentice" salary to charity.

FAHRENTHOLD: $2.5 million.


FAHRENTHOLD: That is right. And there is no evidence, if you look at the public filings of his foundation, which was set up to give his money away, you do not see that. And Trump`s excuse has always been, "I am giving it privately. I am giving it personally. It does not go through the foundation. Basically, I am giving it away where you cannot possibly check it."

Well, we are trying to check it. We are asking for his help, obviously. He is welcome to give us suggestions about where to look. But like I said, doing our best to look anywhere we think Donald Trump might have given money, we have only found one gift back in 2009.

O`DONNELL: And he is pretty brazen about this. He was very public about "I am going to give my entire salary for this TV show. I am going to give it to charity." And then some time later, he is on Howard Stern and Howard says to him, have you given that to charity, and he just says no.

FAHRENTHOLD: Yes. It is an interesting situation, the three months later, Trump seemed to take it back, but maybe not. There is always this tension with Trump, where he is at one time trying to tell people that on the one hand he is very, very rich, he does not need money.

On the other hand, he is always trying to sell you something. He is always trying to get your money for a book or a steak or a bottle of water or number of things. So these donations to charity are kind of a way to reconciling that, explaining why he seems so desperately to make money from people, the money is not for him.

O`DONNELL: But he is very frequently making public pledges to charities.

FAHRENTHOLD: That is right. This is a habit that goes back to the `80s, with "The Art Of The Deal," in 1987, when he came out with this big book. The first sentence of "The Art Of The Deal" is, I do not need the money, I have enough, more than I ever need. He said then, "I am going to give the money to charity."

So we actually look back starting then, and you see at the beginning, there was some effort to give some of this money to charity. It was seemed clearly that he was giving some of his royalties away, as he said. But even then, there was sort of in private, that did not match what he said in public.

Trump in public had said back then, "I am going to give the money to aids, multiple sclerosis, the homeless, veterans." If you look at what he actually did, he gave a lot more to things like his daughter`s ballet school, his son`s elementary school, society gallows in Manhattan than he did to the nobler, broader charities that he talked about in public.

O`DONNELL: David Fahrenthold, thank you very much for sticking with this story and digging in and finding what you could about it. I really appreciate it.


O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.