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The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell, Transcript 3/24/2016

Guests: Nancy Giles, Rick Wilson, Howard Dean, Tom Davis, Nina Turner, Barney Frank

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL Date: March 24, 2016 Guest: Nancy Giles, Rick Wilson, Howard Dean, Tom Davis, Nina Turner, Barney Frank

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC: That does it for us tonight, Rachel will be back tomorrow. Now, it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell. Good evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Hey Steve, I`m so glad you talked about Garry Shandling`s first show.

Because I`m going to spend some time tonight talking about the next one, the "Larry Sanders Show" which was I think the true master piece of his work.

And you know, when you say no one saw it coming, I actually saw Garry Shandling just this past weekend in L.A. going to Starbucks and everyone is shocked by this.

Really, he looked perfectly healthy, he looked great and I`ll have much more to say about all that later.

KORNACKI: It`s awful news, but I look forward to watching it, Lawrence --

O`DONNELL: Yes, thanks, Steve.


O`DONNELL: Well, any minute now, Bernie Sanders is about to speak to voters in Washington State where they will be voting on Saturday.

He is now tied with Hillary Clinton in a new national poll. That poll also gives John Kasich an argument for staying in the race.

But the big campaign story of the night is the all-out-war between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Donald, you`re a sniveling coward, leave Heidi the hell alone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald Trump retweeted this photo last night.

CRUZ: It is not acceptable for a big, loud New York bully to attack my wife.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It`s a good year to be single. The bottom line is -- hey guys, knock it off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is now raising money for Senator Ted Cruz.

GRAHAM: Would you like to give 2,700 bucks?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What turns you on about Cruz?

GRAHAM: That he`s not Trump.


CRUZ: Donald Trump is a gift wrapped in a pink little bowl for the Democratic Party.


WHOOPI GOLDBERG, ACTRESS: You have aligned yourself with the man -- I`m sorry, he is a racist and he`s not good for the country --

CARSON: What`s the alternative? --

GRAHAM: John Kasich would be the best nominee, but he doesn`t have a chance.

CARSON: Kasich is just not going to make it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My party is completely screwed up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They must be asking themselves how the -- did we get here?



O`DONNELL: Donald Trump has a Twitter problem, a big Twitter problem. And after yesterday saying he would consider using nuclear weapons against ISIS.

Donald Trump took to Twitter last night to attack Ted Cruz`s wife, Heidi. Trump`s venomous Twitter addiction led to this headline on "POLITICO" today.

"Donald Trump Tweets like a Latin American Strong Man". The article concluding with "Trump shares a defining insidious trait with Latin- American populist as a group.

The supposed championing of democracy even as he erodes its foundations." The 2016 election campaign has already eroded into a completely unserious presidential campaign.

It may not be surprising that Donald Trump went after his opponent`s wife on Twitter, but it was too much for Ted Cruz to just ignore today.


CRUZ: Donald has a very unfortunate habit. When he gets scared, he lashes out. When he gets scared, he screams, he yells, often he curses.

And he insults and attacks whoever is standing near him and you`re right. Donald does seem to have an issue with women.

Donald doesn`t like strong women. Strong women scare Donald. Now, Donald is scared a lot these days.

Donald is scared to debate. He ran away from the last debate that was scheduled because he was scared of Megyn Kelly and because he was scared to defend his policies.


O`DONNELL: Ted Cruz went on and one. He said Donald Trump`s comments were a sign of weakness.


CRUZ: Let me be absolutely clear. Our spouses and our children are off bounds. It is not acceptable for a big, loud New York bully to attack my wife.

It is not acceptable for him to make insults, to send nasty tweets late at night. And I don`t know what he does late at night, but he tends to do these about 11:30 at night.

I assume when his fear is at the highest point. Real men don`t try to bully women. That`s not an action of strength.

That`s an action of weakness, it`s an action of fear. It`s an action of a small and petty man who is intimidated by strong women.

Real men don`t do that. And Donald is indicating the fear that keeps him up at night when he lashes out with anger.

Heidi is my best friend in the whole world, she is the love of my life. And Donald should stick with attacking me because Heidi is way out of Donald Trump`s league.


O`DONNELL: Ted Cruz had this final message for Donald Trump.


CRUZ: Seeing him go deeper and deeper into the gutter. It`s not easy to tick me off. I don`t get angry often.

But you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that will do it every time. Donald, you`re a sniveling coward and leave Heidi the hell alone.


O`DONNELL: On the campaign trail, following Ted Cruz, Nbc`s Hallie Jackson asked Ted Cruz the question of the day.

Right after that moment, she asked whether Ted Cruz would still support Donald Trump if he`s the Republican nominee.


HALLIE JACKSON, NBC NEWS: So, will you support him as the nominee?

CRUZ: I`m going to beat him for the nomination.

JACKSON: That`s not answering --

CRUZ: He is not --

JACKSON: The question, Senator --

CRUZ: I am answering the question. Donald Trump will not be the nominee.

JACKSON: He`s leading right now. You just looked in that camera and said he is a coward. Will you support him as the nominee?

CRUZ: Donald Trump will not be the nominee.


O`DONNELL: Great work. Tonight, Ted Cruz said this.


CRUZ: You know, Heidi has been in the news the past couple of days.


And let me just say although the views of some might differ, I think Heidi Cruz is the most beautiful, extraordinary, generous, loving, amazing, fantastic woman on the face of the planet.




O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Nancy Giles; contributor for "Cbs News" "Sunday Morning", Howard Dean; former governor of Vermont and a former DNC chairman, he`s also an Msnbc political analyst.

Also with us, Rick Wilson; Republican strategist and an adviser to the anti-Trump Super PAC Make America Awesome and a contributor to the "Daily Beast" and "POLITICO".

I just want to first of all offer one word of defense for New York because Ted Cruz calls Donald Trump in here a big, loud New York bully.

New York`s got nothing to do with it.


O`DONNELL: OK, New York has got nothing --

GILES: Nothing --

O`DONNELL: To do with it. I don`t care where --

GILES: If you`re in Nebraska --


O`DONNELL: Wherever Donald Trump is from --

GILES: Thank you --

O`DONNELL: Right? --

GILES: Thank you, so that`s fine --

O`DONNELL: Nothing to do with it.

GILES: Nothing --

O`DONNELL: Big, loud bully, it`s all you need.

GILES: That`s all you need.

O`DONNELL: Nancy --


O`DONNELL: Donald Trump has serious problems in the polls with one of them who ultimately ends up deciding who the presidency is when you look --

GILES: Exactly --

O`DONNELL: At the way -- when you look at the way --

GILES: And actually --

O`DONNELL: They call it --

GILES: Single women are real voting strength if this go around, so --

O`DONNELL: And he just keeps digging the hole deeper.

GILES: Totally -- he has a -- he has a lot of problems, let`s just start wit that.

I mean, every time I see him, I have to kind of wonder like whether there was some freeze in his personality around third grade.

He`s like that flailing, badly tempered kid who just spears things about people, blames everybody for everything else.

And then if anybody dares to say anything bad about him, he goes into over- drive.

But this thing with the women, I mean, I remember he said those weird things about his daughter, like if she wasn`t his daughter, he`d like date her.

That`s weird.


GILES: There`s something weird and icky about that. I don`t want a hinky, icky guy -- well, he definitely shouldn`t be president.

But I don`t want him anywhere near me or any woman I know.

O`DONNELL: And -- but Howard Dean, you get through that moment where he does that big pointing to the camera and you`re a coward and he does all that.

And the very next question he`s asked is will you endorse Donald Trump if he`s the nominee and he can`t answer it.

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR: Well, Ted Cruz is a little weird, too.


I mean, he did shut down the entire government --

O`DONNELL: Sure --

DEAN: By himself. I mean, by filibustering and then screwed up his own party by giving Harry Reid an opening to have eight or twelve judges confirmed by the state.

I mean, this guy is not playing with a full deck either, but I guess Donald Trump makes him look better --

GILES: A moron --

DEAN: Embarrassed, yes --

GILES: Yes --

DEAN: This is --

O`DONNELL: Rick Wilson, you`re -- the Super PAC you`re affiliated with got this whole thing started by putting out that picture of Donald Trump`s wife that was taken years ago when she was a model, targeted to voters in Utah, specifically targeted to women voters in Utah.

And Ted Cruz did very well with those voters, Donald Trump has worst performance in any state than what he had in Utah.

Are you glad that you started this thing between the candidates about their wives?

WILSON: Well, look, I think -- I think Ted Cruz is at a catalyzing moment in this campaign where he suddenly realize after nine months of playing footsie with this guy, that Donald Trump was always going to eat him.

Maybe he was going to eat him last, but that Trump would always turn on him in the end and he`s found -- he`s seemingly found a little bit of a deeper reserve of strength and fire tonight than he`s shown before.

And I mean, this is -- this is clearly a moment where Ted Cruz has to understand that this guy is implacable.

He is -- he is -- he is -- he`s a monster, that if you don`t fight back against the monster, you`re going to get eaten by the monster.

So, I think that Cruz tonight finally realized, there`s no depth to which Donald Trump won`t stoop.

This is also a guy, Donald Trump, who has -- who has demeaned and belittled women throughout this campaign. And you know what? I don`t -- his voters don`t care that he behaves this way.

I think the misogyny argument with his voters means nothing. But the fact of the matter is, in the Fall, roughly 53 percent of the voters are going to be women.

And Trump is right now in surveys losing terribly with women across the board.

But he`s particularly losing votes among Republican women who are professionals and who live in swing counties like Bucks county and Fairfax and Orange -- places all over the country.

Where he is going to have a giant -- a giant deficit with these voters in part because of behavior he`s exhibited not just from the beginning of the campaign, but his entire life.

So --

O`DONNELL: OK, well --

WILSON: He`s brought this -- he`s brought this on himself.

O`DONNELL: Rick, I listened carefully. I didn`t hear an answer to the question in there.

So, let me put it to you this way. You bring up misogyny -- was the ad that you guys ran about Donald Trump`s wife misogynistic?

WILSON: I don`t think anything -- I don`t think anything in politics this year has a -- has a boundary level where Donald Trump can`t exceed it and can`t go further.

I mean, this is a guy who directly insulted Carly Fiorina on stage for her looks. This is a guy who has insulted Megyn Kelly.

This is a guy who in ordinary circumstances, if somebody tweeted to Megyn Kelly that much, you`d get a restraining order against him.

So, Trump is the guy who is responsible for the tone and the tenor of this campaign right now.

And if people are pulling out stops, they`re going to pull out the stops. And the fact of the matter is Donald Trump -- yes, like I said, I don`t think his voters care that he`s a misogynist, he`s a terrible human being.

I don`t think they care that this is a guy who treats and talks about women in a way that if it was your wife or your daughter involved with it, you want to punch him in the face.

But you know, he is going to behave this way and he`s going to -- you know, you reap the whirl wind eventually.

And he`s going to -- he`s going to have to face the fact that his behavior has alienated women voters across this country.

And he`s going to continue to do so because Donald Trump doesn`t change. He`s crazy. And he`s going to keep, you know, his late-night tweet sessions going for as long as he wants.

And whether or not Donald Trump --


WILSON: You know, chooses to -- chooses to moderate his behavior about Heidi Cruz, who is by all accounts, a wonderful and brilliant woman.

This is a guy who has brought this into -- he walked into this.



O`DONNELL: I just want to -- no for the people in the audience who are actually following the wording of the questions. That`s --

GILES: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Two in a row with no answer from Rick, so we`re going to have to move back to Nancy --

GILES: So, since Rick Wilson won`t --


GILES: Answer --


O`DONNELL: So, what`s that opening shot --

GILES: It was a misogynist there --

O`DONNELL: Yes, go ahead --

GILES: Number it was, and I am no fan of Donald Trump`s, but as a woman who gives opinions on television, I have been like, you know, Donald Trump`s wife and like Mrs. Cruz maligned for her looks just by virtue of what I do.

And it`s -- and it`s a dirty trick and it`s mean and it`s nasty, and men don`t do it to men, so, yes, he opened certainly a flood gate of responses.

But the ad itself --

WILSON: Nancy, sure, I do. I think -- listen, Nancy --


GILES: Let me finish, let me talk, Rick, let me finish --


O`DONNELL: Specifically didn`t interrupt you to give you --

GILES: Yes --

O`DONNELL: A chance to answer, so --

GILES: And you didn`t answer it --

O`DONNELL: Hold on --

GILES: It was a misogynistic ad --

O`DONNELL: Just hold on --

GILES: And it just -- it did reveal more of Donald Trump`s misogyny.

Because since when did the presidential campaign become who has the best- looking babe at his side.

What does that have to do with whether you`re going to be a thoughtful, peaceful president? Nothing.

But yes, that was a misogynistic ad, there`s no act of guys running for presidents, you know, standing or seductively with their shirts off or their pants down or anything like that, are there?

O`DONNELL: Howard Dean, as we saw with Lindsey Graham at the beginning of the show, there was this horrible --

DEAN: Best part of the night.

GILES: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Leading Republicans and Jeb Bush, they`re facing the worst choice of their lives --

DEAN: Right --

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump or Ted Cruz, they`re making this choice with great pain generally in the direction of Ted Cruz.

DEAN: Ted Cruz, I think he`s a more dangerous person because I`m not entirely sure he actually believes in democracy.

You know, if you put a gun to my head and made me choose, I`d choose Trump.

O`DONNELL: Is that also because you think --

DEAN: And that`s a terrifying --

O`DONNELL: Is that because you think Trump actually doesn`t believe anything and is therefore, maybe a softer bowl of jelly to work with if he`s --

DEAN: Well, Ted Cruz has a record of shutting down the government.

WILSON: Yes --


DEAN: This is a scary thing. This guy --

O`DONNELL: Right --

DEAN: Who is running for president based on the fact that he shut down the government and put millions and millions of people at a disadvantage, closing out checks essentially putting people on furlough.

I mean, is this the kind of president you want? I think the Republicans are in deep trouble.

I mean, most of the reasonable candidates are gone. And Kasich --

GILES: They`re all gone, yes --

DEAN: Kasich is far behind and Kasich is a perfectly a nice guy who is very conservative, a little scary for me.

Closing down Planned Parenthood in Ohio was no great ticket to the presidency either. So, I think they`re in deep trouble. I mean --

GILES: But Lawrence, I`ve got to say, I`m more frightened by Donald Trump as a black woman and for people of color, I think he`s much more dangerous.

And I`m really scared when I see how he effects his audience and then they`re effect out in the -- out in the populous, it`s frightening.

O`DONNELL: All right, we`re going to have to leave it there for tonight. Nancy Giles, Rick Wilson, Howard Dean, thank you all very much --

GILES: Thank you --

O`DONNELL: For joining us, I really appreciate it. Coming up, Donald Trump is in a tie in a major swing state with one of his opponents and it`s not Ted Cruz.

The case for John Kasich is next. And we`re watching a live Bernie Sanders event in -- Washington.

We will bring you some of his remarks coming up.




GRAHAM: I don`t dislike Ted. Ted and I have a lot of differences -- I`m getting better at this. So --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what I feel? I feel like you guys are like a - -


GRAHAM: Not easy choice. And what can I say?


One, he`s not completely crazy.


GRAHAM: He`s really --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, partially crazy? Partially crazy.

GRAHAM: Well, hey, that works in Washington.


O`DONNELL: Lindsey Graham, best political comedian of the week.

Up next, in a new poll, one Republican beats Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in an important swing state when they`re matched in a poll and it`s probably not who you think it is.



GRAHAM: John Kasich, I think is the most qualified person standing to be president of the United States. It`s an outsider year.

If you got any experience, people say no thank you. The bottom line is that, people believe Washington is so broke and they want somebody like Trump who appears to be unable to be bought.

John Kasich`s problem is he`s an insider in an outsider year and nobody seems to want to buy that.


O`DONNELL: Senator Lindsey Graham is not the only one questioning John Kasich`s decision to remain in the race for the Republican presidential nomination.

Here`s what candidate Senator Ted Cruz has to say about the Ohio governor.


CRUZ: John Kasich has no path. It`s mathematically impossible for him to win the nomination and he`s ineligible to be on the ballot because you have to have won eight states.

The only two people who will meet that test are Donald Trump and me.


O`DONNELL: And this is what John Kasich said while campaigning in the next big battle ground state of Wisconsin.


KASICH: You know, I drop out, Donald Trump is absolutely going to be the nominee. Because I mean -- and I`m not out here to stop Donald Trump, but I can tell you the reality of it.

Because I don`t believe that Senator Cruz can come to the east and win. I think I can compete across this and gather delegates and I think we go to a convention.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Tom Davis; former Congressman from Virginia and the state`s chairman of the John Kasich campaign.

Also with us, Barney Frank; a former Congressman from Massachusetts who is a Hillary Clinton supporter.

Tom Davis, just about everyone outside of the Kasich campaign wants John Kasich out of the race. What`s your response?

TOM DAVIS, FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Well, they really haven`t looked at the math. For example, if he gets out of the race, Ohio, 66 votes don`t go to Ted Cruz, they go in another direction at this point.

You take a look at Pennsylvania, Ted Cruz isn`t going to win Pennsylvania, John Kasich has a very good shot at picking up a lot of delegates in Pennsylvania, and in New York and in the New England states as you go forward.

You know, only way you`re going to stop Trump is to again, tackle him.

I don`t think Cruz is capable of doing it, and Cruz isn`t going to walk into the convention with the majority.

You just have to stop short of the first ballot and see what happens.

O`DONNELL: Barney Frank, as you comfortably gaze across the political aisle toward the chaos on the Republican side.

I hear a lot of people in New York, New Jersey who haven`t voted yet, saying, Kasich should stay in the race because he`s the one who`s capable of pulling down a real vote in New York, a real vote in New Jersey.

Cruz won`t be able to do that and if you -- if you have Kasich out in states like New York, New Jersey, you`re just handing big delegate piles to Donald Trump.

BARNEY FRANK, FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Well, I have to say, Lawrence, trying not to speak outside my general area of competence in abnormal psychology is nothing I ever took in school.

And so, I can`t figure out exactly how they play this out. I do -- I do have to say that a party that enthusiasts should be rallying behind Sarah Palin to be the vice president of the United States.

Only two elections ago, shouldn`t be totally surprised at the kind of angry irrationality has some appeal in the party.

But I would say this, the problem appear to have -- I hope -- as a Democrat, I would like to see the Republican Party become a more competitive national entity.

Because I would like to see the more reasonable Republicans like Tom Davis, like John Kasich regain their party from the right wing that has unfortunately captured it.

But I don`t think that happens instantly, I don`t think it can happen between now and this Summer, and that`s John Kasich`s problem.

John is a very much a conservative. But he implemented that part of Obamacare which provided medical care to the poorest people in this state with federal funding.

What should have just been an obvious thing infuriates a lot of Republicans.

So, the problem is, if Kasich is apparently -- I don`t see how he wins, how he picks up -- even if he wins a couple of primaries in the last right-wing states, how he gets the votes.

And the other is same thing by the way, that -- I know, one of these -- John Kasich was boasting of correctly was that when he was budget chairman, that was the only time the budget was balanced.

Of course, he balanced it in partnership with Bill Clinton, and they -- it happened in part because we have a strange military spending and raised taxes.

And I was interested also in Kasich -- been notes that when he left Congress that ended. You know what happened when he left Congress? George W. Bush came in.

And I really believe that`s going to be another problem for him if he really emerges.

Republicans resenting his giving credit to Bill Clinton for balancing the budget and blaming George Bush for rending that.

O`DONNELL: Let`s take a look at some of the state polls that are coming up. Tom, you mentioned Pennsylvania.

In Pennsylvania, we have Donald Trump at 33 percent, John Kasich within the margin of error at 30 percent, he could win that one.

Ted Cruz down at 20 percent. In Wisconsin, there`s Ted Cruz up at the top of the pile at 36 percent, Donald Trump right there in a statistical tie at 35 percent, John Kasich down there at 19 percent.

Tom Davis, that Pennsylvania poll looks to me like a strong argument for your guy staying in there.

DAVIS: Well, yes, and I think you`ll see the same thing in New York and New Jersey. And when John puts some emphasis on a state, I think he can close the gap.

Part of the numbers you see there are just name identification. But more importantly, there have been four national polls in the last week.

John Kasich beats Hillary Clinton in every poll.


DAVIS: Ted Cruz doesn`t win in one.

O`DONNELL: Yes, that is true --

DAVIS: If they`re really worried about the Supreme Court, you`d think they`d worry about electability.

O`DONNELL: Yes, and you hear people saying if there`s an open vote in the convention, they will be thinking about electability, that might be the only shot Kasich has.

Tom Davis -- yes, Barney, we have to take a break right here quickly, Tom Davis, thank you very much for joining us tonight, really --

DAVIS: Thanks --

O`DONNELL: Appreciate that.

DAVIS: Thanks.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, a new national poll has Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton in a tie nationwide.


O`DONNELL: In a new national poll, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are in a statistical tie with Bernie Sanders just one point ahead.

A "Bloomberg" national politics poll found Bernie Sanders has 49 percent support from likely Democratic voters and Hillary Clinton has 48 percent.

But it`s a different story among likely Democratic primary voters in Pennsylvania and California.

Hillary Clinton has a 25-point lead right now in Pennsylvania with 53 percent to Bernie Sanders 28 percent.

Hillary Clinton also leads in California with 48 percent compared to Bernie Sanders` 41 percent.

Here`s what Bernie Sanders said moments ago at a rally in Yakima, Washington.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have got to win obviously not only the Democratic nomination. We have to win the general election, whether it`s against Mr. Trump or anyone else.

So, I want to give you some good news on that. There was a CNN poll just came out a few days ago and this is what it said. It said that Secretary Clinton would do well against Mr. Trump. She`d beat him by 12 points. We beat him by 20 points.

Now, I was a little bit disappointed. We want to beat him by more, but 20 points is a good place to start from.

That same poll had Secretary Clinton losing to Governor Kasich by 6 points. We were beating Kasich by 6 points.

That same poll had Secretary Clinton tied with Ted Cruz. We were beating him by 13 points.

And this is not just one poll. This is poll after poll after poll. So the message is if Democrats want to make sure that somebody like a Donald Trump does not get elected president, you`re looking at the candidate who`s going to beat him.


O`DONNELL: Barney Frank and Nina Turner join us next to talk about their candidates, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.


O`DONNELL: As you just saw, Bernie Sanders is rallying supporters in the state of Washington tonight, but this afternoon, Hillary Clinton held the Homeland Security roundtable at the University of Southern California where she said this.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot give in to panic and fear. It`s not in keeping with our values. It`s not effective in protecting us and it plays into the hands of terrorists who want nothing more than to intimidate and terrorize people, turn against each other, which leads to radicalizing more people and creating even greater problems for us.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Nina Turner, former Ohio State Senator and a Bernie Sanders supporter and also still with us, former Congressman Barney Frank who is a Hillary Clinton supporter.

Nina Turner, the polls -- as the Sanders campaign continues the national polls keep closing, they keep getting closer and closer, but there is no national primary vote poll, its state-by-state, and the state-by-state map gets increasingly difficult for Bernie Sanders.

NINA TURNER, SUPPORTS BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT: Well, Lawrence, certainly Senator Sanders has outperformed most comparisons up this point. Don`t forget, he started off the campaign with 3percent in the polls. And look at him now, the upset in Utah and Iowa and then also Americans abroad by 69 percent, so he`s going to continue to make a difference.

And you`re right, there is no national competition. It is state-by-state, but state-by-state Senator Sanders is getting his message out there and people -- his message is resonating with the people.

O`DONNELL: Barney Frank, Clinton supporters always believed then and I saw no reason why they shouldn`t, that they would have a strong electability (ph) argument in a general election over Bernie Sanders, but then the national polls came along to surprise in every -- as Bernie Sanders says, in virtually every one-on-one match-up Bernie Sanders does much better against each of the Republican candidates and way better with Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton does.

BARNEY FRANK, SUPPORTS HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT: There are two reasons for that. But first let me know, we`ve forgot to do, you know, we really had two different campaigns here.

We`ve had the caucus campaigns where a small number of highly motivated people carried the day. Bernie Sanders has won eight of those out of 10. Then we have primaries where everybody can vote where you have a much broader small the Democratic operation and Hillary Clinton has won 16 out of 20 of those. She`s been wining the primaries, he`s winning the caucuses.

As to these polls, there are two factors. First of all, Senator Sanders has been running a much more negative and I think inaccurate campaign to some extent against Hillary Clinton.

For example, he personally is blaming her because there haven`t been prosecutions of what financial industries when the Secretary of State really has much less to do with that than he apparently think.

What you`ve got is this. I believe at this point a number of Sanders` supporters are so hooked on this that when asked they don`t support Hillary Clinton. On the other hand, I believe almost all of Hillary Clinton supporters asked today said, yes, they would vote for Sanders.

In other words, when the heated atmosphere of the primaries ends, I think you will find that some of those people who are not now supporting Clinton over Trump are strong Sanders supporters who have bought into what I think is the inaccurate and it`s an unfair, right you have achieved somehow not honestly committed to doing the right thing and that will change.

The other is this, despite the polls, the Republicans clearly if they had their wish it would be Bernie Sanders. They have concentrated their fire on Hillary Clinton. The criticism has all been of her. Nobody has yet really attacked Senator Sanders in areas where I think he would be vulnerable.

And let me say this, if he was the nominee I`m enthusiastically campaign for him against Cruz or Trump or Bloomberg or all of the about. But the fact is that he has so far not been the focus of any other kind of criticisms that will come if he is the candidate and I wish it were the case that America was more willing to support higher taxes and less phobic about socialism.

Those are aspects of Bernie Sanders that will be vulnerability to November, but aren`t now because Hillary Clinton is being much more responsible and constructive in her campaign than he is in his.

O`DONNELL: Nina Turner, what`s your response to that?

TURNER: Lawrence, I totally disagree with the Congressman on that. Senator Bernie Sanders is never run a negative campaign in all of his career. Talking about contrasts is not running a negative campaign.

If we want to talk about negative, to have the Secretary of State and her supporters, many of them who serve in Congress try to eradicate Senator Sanders` entire civil rights record, that`s being negative.

Senator Bernie Sanders is the best candidate to go head to head with the Republicans. Every single national poll shows that and with regards to his supporters.

What the Democratic Party needs to understand and get a clue real quick that a lot of the supporters who are out there and they really are rallying behind a message that Senator Sanders has about enough is enough that we can have a nation that invests in college education or highly skilled or creating a highly skilled workforce so that our young people don`t walk across the stage with debt in one hand and a degree in the other, that in the United States in America, the most powerful nation on the face of the earth that we can dare dream to have universal health care in this country.

This is not about raising taxes. This is about raising expectations. This is about making an investment in the American people. That is what Senator Sanders is running on, Congressman.

O`DONNELL: I just want to get Barney .

FRANKS First of all .

O`DONNELL: .before your statement (ph) Barney, I just want to get one more data point in here and that`s -- we haven`t seen this before in this polls, but they do a one-on-one match-up in this most recent poll of each of the Democrats against John Kasich and John Kasich actually beats both of them by four points, beats Bernie and beats Hillary by four points. I never seen that before. But, go ahead, Barney.

FRANK: He clearly benefits by being compared to Cruz and Trump. He also is getting a free pass from everybody who was so appalled by Cruz and Trump that they don`t focus on John`s record. And it`s a good one from one standpoint, but it`s not the one that would show up.

But as to this argument, that Sanders is not running a negative campaign, nonsense. I saw an ad put out by the Sanders campaign that said, "Oh, look, these big institutions weren`t penalized and why is that, because some people had speaking fees."

Hillary Clinton has had nothing to do with the decisions whether to prosecute or not. She got a very tough record on financial reform. Sanders impugning her, suggesting that she somehow was responsible for failure to prosecute is just nonsense.

And secondly, with regard to these -- I`m sorry, you spoke for awhile. With regard to the intuitive questions, Hillary Clinton is also very strongly for those. But I think, what we officially got from the Senator was, yes, some of the Sanders people are now saying that they won`t vote for Hillary Clinton. I don`t think any of the Clinton people are saying that about Sanders.


O`DONNELL: I`m sorry. We`re going to have -- I`m sorry to both of you. We`re going to have to break it there. We are out of time for this segment. Barney Frank and Nina Turner, thank you both. I hope you can both come back and discuss this further.

Coming up, Garry Shandling`s friends struggled today with how to describe what his loss means to them.


O`DONNELL: And now for the corrections department. I`m sorry. I just screwed up the last poll that we were talking about there on that last segment.

This is the Bloomberg politics poll. We got the match-up up there on the screen which is too far away for me to read so I`m going to look at his piece of paper that I missed read the last time.

John Kasich does beat Hillary Clinton by 4 points in this poll, but Bernie Sanders as usual beats John Kasich in the poll and actually beats him by 4 points. So, there`s actually an 8 point difference in the performance of Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in this poll against John Kasich. And so, and that is not an uncommon result at all. That result I`ve seen in many, many polls before this one.

So just to get it straight again, yes John Kasich beats Hillary Clinton in that poll one-one-one theoretical poll, but Bernie Sanders beats John Kasich as usual in that theoretical one-on-one poll.

We`re going to be right back with "A Last Word" tonight about Garry Shandling.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said -- because I was watching the news and it seems like if he passed away I would have heard about it on the news and I said well, I don`t know, man. I mean, I don`t know if they would have broken in or anything, but, you know, I didn`t know what to say to the guy. He kept at it. He said, so that`s a great to Garry Shandling`s a lot. Fantastic, but it was like .


O`DONNELL: Well, if you`ve been watching the news you know by know that Garry Shandling died suddenly today in Los Angeles from an apparent heart attack. He looked perfectly healthy when I last saw him just this past weekend, on Saturday afternoon walking to Starbucks in Brentwood.

We`ll have some very, very fond memories of Garry Shandling, next.


O`DONNELL: And now for tonight`s "Last Word". Warren Beatty was a giant movie star during all of Garry Shandling`s show business career. They eventually became dear friends and only Garry Shandling could talk Warren Beatty into doing a guest spot on a T.V. series, but it wasn`t just any T.V. series, it was Garry Shandling`s crowning artistic achievement, "The Larry Sanders Show," which should be high if not on the top of every list of the greatest T.V. series of all time.




SHANDLING: Hey. Listen, how would you like to come on my show tomorrow night and just say a little goodbye to me because, you know, it`s the end of the whole thing tomorrow night.

BEATTY: Like, I could say goodbye to you now.

SHANDLING: Yeah, but there are no cameras or anything here. Tomorrow night, millions of people. We`ve got a fantastic show, I`m sure we are (ph). We have Carol Burnett. We have Greg Kinnear, Sean Penn, Tom Petty, Clint Black.


SHANDLING: Clint Black, he`s a country music singer. He`s going to sing goodbye to me. It`s going to be fantastic.

BEATTY: Goodbye.


O`DONNELL: All of the best T.V. comedy since then owe something to Garry Shandling`s master piece. Judd Apatow was a writer on "The Larry Sanders Show".

Today, he said, "Garry would see the ridiculousness of me being asked to sum up his life five minutes after being told of his passing. It is a perfect, ridiculous Larry Sanders moment. I can imagine how Hank would handle it but I just don`t know how to sum up someone I loved so much who taught me everything I know and was always so kind to me. I am just too sad. Maybe tomorrow I will do better."

The character of Hank on Larry Sanders was played by Jeffrey Tambor whose work I knew and appreciated before "The Larry Sanders Show," but who`s Hank made me fall in love with his work.


JEFFREY TAMBOR, PLAYED THE ROLE HANK KINGSLEY IN "THE LARRY SANDERS SHOW": This is how I use hey now in this sentence, OK? You say, and of course my, sidekick Hank.

SHANDLING: And of course, my sidekick Hank.

TAMBOR: Hey now.


TAMBOR: That`s a sentence.

SHANDLING: No. Hank, listen. I`d just prefer you not do it on the show anymore, OK? I just -- it gets on my nerves. It gets on the audience`s nerves as well.

TAMBOR: No, sir. No, sir.




TAMBOR: Look, you`re not out there. And believe me it is -- it`s very big with the audience.


TAMBOR: And I`m going to tell you something else. I think it helps make the show work. It`s part of our whole interplay on camera.

SHANDLING: By interplay, you mean the times we`re both awake?

TAMBOR: Hey, now.

SHANDLING: Just cut down on it. Could you do that, please?


O`DONNELL: Today, Jeffrey Tambor said this. "I am so sad. Garry was my dear friend and was and always will be my teacher. Garry redesigned the wheel of comedy and he was the kindest and funniest of Geniuses. I will miss him so much."

Kathryn Harrold, who played Larry`s ex-wife on the show, told me today, "He took comedy very seriously. He took his craft as an actor very seriously. Working with him in a scene was wonderful because anything you did he was open to."


SHANDLING: I want to thank them for returning the couch. Again, thanks.

Oh, it`s on a timer. Wait a minute.

KATHRYN HARROLD, PLAYED LARRY`S EX-WIFE ON "THE LARRY SANDERS SHOW": Oh, that -- that thing is happening again where you`re suit disappears into the curtain.

SHANDLING: Oh, yeah.

HARROLD: Like, you know, like that .

SHANDLING: It looks like the big clothing ahead of him. That doesn`t really bother me anymore, I think.

HARROLD: Really? Well, it looks good. Great.

SHANDLING: I think one of those CNN interview looking at the, "Come on Suzy (ph), you know you did it with me."

Where are you going?

HARROLD: I have a deadline. You have a show to watch.

SHANDLING: No, no, no, no. Look. There.

HARROLD: Oh, that`s a very sweet gesture.

SHANDLING: Sweet gesture. I`m turned on. Show off for anybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Larry, I`m sorry. I know you went to dinner with Francine (ph), but Jesus got blood. I`m warning you don`t have sex with her. Larry?


O`DONNELL: Kathryn told me today that Garry had no idea that she was going to pull the covers off the bed like that, but he went with it and sorry right away that it made this divorce couple all them more awkward about being in bed together. It worked.

Bob Odenkirk who play the writer on the show release the statement today saying, "Garry was a guiding voice of comedy. He set the standard, and we`re all still trying to meet it. He gave us opportunities to learn how to do the best work of our lives."


SHANDLING: Monday night, can you believe it?


SHANDLING: Hey, I`m not blowing smoke up your ass. Larry did the show for 10 years. You`re going to do it for twice as long. This isn`t (inaudible) I`m talking here. This is reality, man.

ODENKIRK: You think?


ODENKIRK: I got to talk to Larry. You know, I got a chance .

SHANDLING: Don`t worry about Larry, OK. Larry is a thing of the past, OK. The guy is the A track, all right. He`s a (inaudible) horse and buggy that guy. This is Darwinism, don`t fight it. You`ll (inaudible).


O`DONNELL: If you were lucky enough to set foot on the Larry Sanders set in any capacity, actor, director, crew, producer, even a visitor, you knew you were standing in the center of the comedy universe.

The first time most of us saw Jeremy Piven was playing a writer on "The Larry Sanders Show", as did Janeane Garofalo and Sarah Silverman.

Seth MacFarlane said today, "Saddened over Garry Shandling. He was a comedy idol of mine. He leaves behind the greatest single camera comedy of all time."

Amy Schumer said, "Goodbye Garry Shandling. Thank you for your kindness and you`re your generosity and for making me laugh so damn much."

I last saw Garry on Saturday afternoon in L.A. on San Vicente and 26th Street in Brentwood walking into the Starbucks. This is the kind of moment we`ve all have. We see somebody we know at a distance we can say hello or not.

And Garry didn`t see me and I was in the middle of a conversation with someone else and so I didn`t say hello and I was still in that conversation when Garry came out of Starbucks and so I had another chance, but once again I blew it. I didn`t call out to him. I didn`t go over and say hi.

We weren`t close friends. We weren`t buddies. We knew each other more than well enough to say hello and spend a minute or two or four or five talking about what`s going on in the world and so I lost that final moment that I had no idea was going to be the final moment where I could have maybe heard right off the top of Garry`s head the greatest Donald Trump joke ever.

And maybe somewhere in the ease of bumping into him that way I would do it somewhere if there was the feeling of I`ll be here next weekend, maybe I`ll bump into him again and I`ll say hi and we`ll talk about the campaign or whatever.

And so today, I was re-taught the lesson that I thought I knew, that we just never know. We never know. We can never let those moments pass.

I spoke to Warren Beatty today about his friend Garry. He told me he was reading some of the beautiful things that people were saying about Garry and it left him pretty much feeling speechless.

No one in Hollywood is more eloquent or wise than Warren Beatty. It takes a lot to silence him. We talked of other things for a while and then finally he said, "This hit me hard. It shocked me. I loved him very much. He was brilliant. Honestly, I can`t find the words."


SHANDLING: You folks see that flashing sign up there? Now, that sign says applesauce. No, I`m kidding. It says applause. Rey (ph), do me a favor, can you flick that once? All right. Now, remember you`re all a big part of the show so the better you are the better Larry is.

All right, now you see this gentleman, now he`s giving me this sign and it says we`re on in 10 seconds so get ready to have a good time. All right, here we go. This is exciting, isn`t it?