IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell, Transcript 11/30/15

Guests: Vicki Cowart, David Cohen, Eli Berman, Jacob Shapiro, JonathanAllen, Maria Teresa Kumar

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: That does it for us tonight, we`ll see you again tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good evening Lawrence. LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Rachel, you`ve got to give it to those editors, they are not afraid of picking a loser. (LAUGHTER) MADDOW: That`s right, and in New Jersey, they are not afraid of picking on their governor. O`DONNELL: That`s right -- MADDOW: It makes for a very exciting stuff. Thanks Lawrence -- O`DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel. MADDOW: Yes -- O`DONNELL: Well, terrorism has a new face tonight in America. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suspected Planned Parenthood shooter appears in court. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Told he is been held on suspicion of first degree murder. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Though authorities are not making a direct connection as far as motive. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a form of terrorism and maybe in some way it`s a function of the acclamatory rhetoric that we see. SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: The media probably wants to blame him on the pro life movement, when at this point there`s very little evidence to indicate. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is typical left-wing tactics. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People have to understand that hateful rhetoric and words and harassment of doctors and harassment of women going to health centers have real implications. DONALD TRUMP, CHAIRMAN & PRESIDENT, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATIONS & FOUNDER, TRUMP ENTERTAINMENT RESORTS: We had a meeting today that was amazing. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The private meeting with 100 black pastors and religious leaders as some of the attendees took issue with the Trump campaign`s claim that the pastors were meant to endorse Donald Trump. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His campaign abruptly canceled the planned press conference. TRUMP: I don`t think we had backlash. I mean, I saw love in that room, I see -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes -- TRUMP: Love everywhere I go. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: The man accused of murdering three people at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado, Springs, Friday, made his first court appearance this afternoon. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The initial charge against you is murder in the first degree. The penalty for that charge is (INAUDIBLE) of life in prison and maximum of death. Do you have any questions about any of these rights, sir? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No questions. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Nothing more on that, just no questions. Fifty seven-year-old Robert Dear`s court appearance was via closed-circuit television from the jail where he`s being held without bond. Robert Dear is expected to be formally charged next Wednesday. Robert Dear is accused of killing a police officer and two people who were visiting the clinic and wounding nine others during a five-hour standoff that ended when he surrendered. Two law enforcement sources told Nbc News that Robert Dear ranted about politics and abortions during questioning and at one point said, "no more body parts." That apparently in reference to Planned Parenthood. Robert Dear`s neighbor reported repeatedly hearing him attack President Obama. Hillary Clinton had this reaction. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: The shooting on Friday was at, as you know, a Planned Parenthood clinic. A place where lots of women get healthcare they need; breast exams, STD testing, contraception and, yes, safe and legal abortions. We should be supporting Planned Parenthood, not attacking it. (APPLAUSE) And it is way past time for us to protect women`s health and respect women`s rights, not use them as political footballs. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Bernie Sanders said this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: I am running for president because in these difficult times, against vitriolic Republican rhetoric, we must protect a woman`s right to choose. (APPLAUSE) And we must defend Planned Parenthood. And I know, I know that I speak for every person in this room when we send our condolences to the families of those who were killed in Friday`s attack at Planned Parenthood in Colorado. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Here is the frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination on "Meet the Press" yesterday. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHUCK TODD, MODERATOR, MEET THE PRESS: We have reporting that he was talking about baby parts and things like that from law enforcement officials during -- TRUMP: Well -- TODD: His interview -- TRUMP: I will tell you there is a tremendous group of people that think it`s terrible -- all over the videos that they`ve seen, with some of these people from Planned Parenthood talking about it like you`re selling parts to a car. I mean, there are a lot of people that are very unhappy about that. Now, I know some of the tapes were perhaps not pertinent. I know that a couple of people that were running for office or are running for office on the Republican side were commenting on tapes that weren`t appropriate. But there were many tapes that are appropriate and in terms of commenting on and there are people that are extremely upset about it. It looks like you`re talking about parts to some machine or something and they`re not happy about it. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: And here is what Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz had to say in Iowa today. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CRUZ: This was a despicable homicide. This was an individual who is deranged. And I will say it`s unfortunate to see so many folks in the press bending over backwards to try to use this horrible crime to advance a political agenda. This man is a deranged murderer. We don`t know at this point what his motivations were, although we can see the press eagerly salivating to suggest that this particular murderer might have been a Republican. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Joining us now Vicki Cowart, President and CEO of Planned Parenthood, Rocky Mountains. This happened under your jurisdiction there. And apparently you made -- you had some expectation of this possibility via training and various precautions you had taken. Could you tell us about that? VICKI COWART, PRESIDENT & CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PLANNED PARENTHOOD, ROCKY MOUNTAINS: Well, good evening, let me make it clear. We had no advance warning of this event, but at Planned Parenthood, we are very concerned and careful about the safety of all of our employees. We place the well-being and safety of our patients and our employees at the top of our list. And so, yes, we do have security measures and we do take our training around those security measures very seriously. The group -- in fact, all of our group, all of our health centers and even our administrative offices do intruder training, shooter training, if you will, and all of our folks do go through this on a fairly regular basis. O`DONNELL: When did you start that? I mean, I imagine 25 years ago Planned Parenthood did not have a training like this. COWART: You know, we`ve been doing it as long as I have been with the organization. And I will admit that we have gotten more serious about it. We track, we make sure that everybody goes through it. But I`ll stress to you that we also do tornado training. So, this is about making sure no matter what happens, our patients and our staff are protected and they`re safe. We want to provide a safe, warm, welcoming, confidential setting for healthcare. O`DONNELL: What about the staff? Have you at Planned Parenthood had any experience with people deciding, you know what? This is just too dangerous, I`m not going to work here anymore? COWART: I think people do leave the organization for a variety of reasons. And probably some of them may think that -- most of us walk past some protesters every day, and we hear the nasty comments, the terrible things they shout at us. But I will -- I will say to you, I`ve been with a lot of our staff today and been in touch with some of the folks down in Colorado Springs. The commitment that Planned Parenthood people have to the mission of providing the women and men in our communities, good, high-quality reproductive healthcare is astonishing. And despite those taunts, despite some of the dangers that may be perceived, people come in. Our health centers in Colorado and across our region were open on Saturday. And again, today, people proudly posted over the weekend on their Facebook, I`m going in, I`ll be at work on Monday. And they were, we were open today across our system. O`DONNELL: And do you have plans for reopening the clinic in Colorado Springs? COWART: Absolutely. We`re doing a lot of care-taking with the people there. We will rebuild. We don`t actually have access to the site yet. We hope that we`ll be able to take it back, the police will hand it back over to us at some point this week and we`ll be able to assess the damage. We know that the damage is pretty extreme. But we absolutely are committed to that community. We`ve been serving, Colorado Springs for decades. And we feel a really strong -- I mean, Colorado Springs is our community. We are of that community. And so we are definitely committed to reopening. O`DONNELL: Vicki Cowart, thank you very much for joining us tonight, really appreciate it. COWART: You bet. O`DONNELL: We`re joined now by Joy Reid, Msnbc national correspondent and David Cohen, a Professor at Drexel University`s Kline School of Law and the co-author of "Living in the Crosshairs: The Untold Stories of Anti-Abortion Terrorism". Joy Reid, we`ve come to the point where working at a Planned Parenthood in America is a dangerous occupation. JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, and as somebody who grew up in Denver, Colorado, knows Colorado Springs very well, it is a highly evangelical community. It`s sort of interesting -- Denver is a sort of liberal community and then you have Colorado Springs, we have this big evangelical base. And I grew up in the era of operation and rescue where you had the really scary confrontations between anti-abortion activists, in a lot of cases who were threatening violence against clinic workers. And somebody who got my basic healthcare from Planned Parenthood -- when I graduated from college, I had no money. And so, even in New York, you know, Planned Parenthood was where I got all my healthcare, whether it`s birth control or not. It`s eerie to sort of think about the danger to which these clinicians who I just became used to it, just normal healthcare providers. The fact that they go to work every day under that kind of fear and duress, that kind of actual terror. That is the essence of what terrorism is, being afraid to go to work. And as somebody who has used Planned Parenthood, I can tell you, women are going -- that get basic healthcare. The idea you have to do that in fear because there are fellow Americans who are threatening violence against you and against your healthcare providers, it`s sort of surreal. O`DONNELL: David Cohen, some people don`t want to use the word terrorism in association with this event. They just want to say, this was one deranged gunman and it could have been anywhere, it could have been a movie theater, it could have been anywhere. DAVID COHEN, LAW PROFESSOR, DREXEL UNIVERSITY, THOMAS KLINE SCHOOL OF LAW: You know, that`s just an absolutely wrong way to look at this. This takes place amidst the context in which there`s been this kind of violence and hateful rhetoric that`s been going on for decades. There have been before Friday, eight murders in this country since 1993. There have been arsons, there have been bombings. There have been stalking of providers following them home, picketing their homes, following their children to school. Abortion providers and abortion clinics deal with this kind of fear on a regular basis. And yet, they still create these wonderfully warm environments and caring environments for their patients because this is basic healthcare. And women will get abortions and find these clinics and find their healthcare provider no matter what. But they shouldn`t have to go through this. The patients who go see these clinics or the providers who are -- who stuff them. O`DONNELL: Well, the -- and in terms of the terrorism in this particular case, Joy, this wasn`t targeting a physician or someone -- REID: Right -- O`DONNELL: Who the person believes is actually performing the abortions. REID: Yes -- O`DONNELL: This is, if you go anywhere near a Planned Parenthood, if you just go as a friend, accompanying a friend -- REID: Right -- O`DONNELL: As one of the women who was -- the woman who was killed, you are taking your life in your hands to go -- REID: Yes -- O`DONNELL: Anywhere near the place. That is terror. REID: That is terror because remember, the George Tiller murder took place at his church, it didn`t take place at his clinic. This was following the person, the man to his place of worship. In the case of going all the way back -- operation and rescue, and some of these other groups that targeted the place of work, you`re actually talking about 99 percent of the women who are going to Planned Parenthood are going for either birth control, basic checkups. You know -- O`DONNELL: Yes -- REID: Those of us who have used Planned Parenthood used them primarily for basic healthcare; breast exams, just clinical checkups, your annual medical exams that are required as a woman to make sure you don`t have cancer. This is what women are going there for, and to have to walk through a gauntlet of people who only see Planned Parenthood as some sort of murderous operation that is forcing women into abortion. You walk into a gauntlet of extremist. And what I think people are forgetting -- COHEN: It`s -- REID: Is that it is terrorism because you`re terrorizing not just the people who work there, but the women who are going there just to get care. O`DONNELL: David, go ahead. COHEN: Yes, it`s important to understand also that abortion is basic healthcare. Almost one in three women in this country will have an abortion. It is basic healthcare. And whether it`s a Planned Parenthood that only provides a small percentage of abortion or an independent abortion clinic where almost everything they do is abortion. All of those women should be able to walk in and get the healthcare they need and everyone who works there should be able to work there without the fear that there`s going to be some problem or at worse, some violence. O`DONNELL: And David -- COHEN: And that is exactly what`s going on here. O`DONNELL: David, quickly, before you go. Is this a new level of terror since he was indiscriminately firing that gun in any direction, not definitely targeting the medical personnel? COHEN: It`s different, although we`ve seen things like this before. There was a bombing in 1998 at a clinic that took place that could have gotten anyone. It got a security guard who was there, this was in Alabama. There have been other violent acts that take place while people are there who are not just the clinic workers. But this is different. I mean, certainly, this is different in the other murders that have taken place in the way that he was firing a gun indiscriminately. But it certainly fits with the long history of violence and the fact that there are murders at these clinics. O`DONNELL: David Cohen, thanks very much for joining us tonight. Coming up, could the Islamic State fall, just fall on its own? Two authors who have described that possibility will join me next. And Donald Trump did not get the endorsement of dozens of African-American preachers today as his campaign promised. And on Twitter earlier today, I asked you to guess what this is -- @Briansneck(ph) tweeted some sort of a cart with a green covering. OK, yes, that`s right, but, please, someone out there, try to guess what that is. The answer is coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: President Obama visited the site of the terrorist attack at the Bataclan Theater where 89 people were murdered. The President stood beside French President Francois Hollande and placed a single white flower at the memorial outside the theater. It was the President`s first stop during his visit to Paris. Coming up, a new strategy for defeating the Islamic State, let the Islamic State defeat itself, that`s next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: President Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin met on the sidelines of the climate summit in Paris, they discussed the crisis in Syria, according to the White House deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes said this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BEN RHODES, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: A lot of the focus with President Putin today dealt with the political process that has been under way in Vienna. The President reiterated that this is an area where we all need to work together and that frankly, making progress with respect to a political dialogue and a cease-fire inside of Syria will also enable us together as an international community to focus on ISIL. That has been the focus of the U.S.-led coalition in Syria. We think that should be the focus of the Russian military action in Syria. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Vladimir Putin said this to reporters after the meeting. "We have an understanding how we should proceed if we talk about a political settlement. We need to work on a new Syrian constitution, new elections and control over their outcome." Joining us now, the co-authors of a new "POLITICO" article entitled "Why ISIL Will Fail on Its Own". Eli Berman, "POLITICO Magazine" contributor and Jacob Shapiro, also of "POLITICO Magazine". Mr. Berman, make your case about just how it would work that the Islamic State would collapse on its own and what models we might have for this. ELI BERMAN, CONTRIBUTOR, POLITICO MAGAZINE: Sure, Lawrence, it`s good to be with you. I mean, the basic -- the basic word here is unsustainable. ISIS, when you think of ISIS as a state, not as a terrorist organization, but as a state, then it`s a failing state. It`s got three sources of funds, oil, perhaps antiquities and its ability to tax its own population. And the oil is going to run out especially if they don`t have engineers to take care of those wells. The antiquities have a limited market anyway, you could only loot them once. And so, what they`re going to fall back on or what they`re falling back on already is their ability to tax or extort their own population. And all the reports suggest that they`re overtaxing in a way that`s making the people, the capital, and the human capital, just run and flee. And so as a country, as an organization, they`re just not going to be able to meet their bills. O`DONNELL: And Jacob Shapiro, what do you make of Vladimir Putin`s statement today about the way he thought they -- that they -- he could coordinate in some ways with the United States? JACOB SHAPIRO, CONTRIBUTOR, POLITICO MAGAZINE: I think that makes a lot of sense, Lawrence. The basic issue I think in getting a durable solution in Syria is not defeating ISIL. That will happen with time to smaller organization with no tax revenue, it`s trying to fight a three-front war. The issue is convincing the sides fighting it that there`s a political bargain that they can become part of. And that requires the kind of coordinated action that President Putin is arguing for and that President Obama has been pushing for. O`DONNELL: And Mr. Berman, as an economics professor in your piece, you draw a comparison to the collapse of the Soviet Union. How is that relevant here? BERMAN: Absolutely. You know, the Soviet Union collapsed not because we invaded them, they collapsed because they imploded on their own. As an economic ideology it failed. Now, ISIS as an (INAUDIBLE) or a dash(ph) as an ideology of governance, they`re trying something that we know from experience fails. Basically a bunch of thugs looting a local population, that`s not a way that you could possibly govern. So, if we -- if we left it alone, it would eventually implode. O`DONNELL: Mr. Shapiro, Lindsey Graham and others calling for troops on the ground in -- U.S. troops and other troops on the ground in Syria. What`s your reaction to that? SHAPIRO: So, I think there`s not a lot of evidence that you can achieve. The aims that they`re suggesting those troops will achieve with the numbers that are in play. So, this organization has been in existence since at least 2006, and for that entire time has had the capacity to attempt attacks like the one in Paris. And that was true when it had -- when the United States had 160,000 forces on the ground, it`s true today when we have none on the ground. And so sending 20,000 forces in, yes, you could pull down audacious flag from Raqqah with 20,000 American forces and air power. But that doesn`t solve the problem of being able to engage in terrorism overseas. That`s the problem you`re trying to solve, you need a political settlement, and experience in that region shows you`re not going to get that by simply taking the capital. O`DONNELL: And Professor Berman, what about holding the capital? There`s - - after we`ve had this experience in that region, that after you take a place like that, you`re going to have to hold it for, what? A decade or obviously longer than a decade. BERMAN: No, Lawrence, and this is a key point, I`m glad you asked. What our experience and what we search are myself, by Professor Shapiro and by others has shown is that what you really have to do is install or help somebody govern by themselves. The Sunni majority areas of Iraq and Syria need governance that answers to their needs. They`re trying to get enough from dash(ph), that`s going to fail. And so, a sustainable solution in the region for Syria and for Iraq requires that Sunnis have somebody governing them who is actually responsive and cares about the people they`re governing. That`s the hard part. O`DONNELL: Professors Eli Berman and Jacob Shapiro, thank you both for joining us tonight. Coming up, the endorsements that Donald Trump did not get today. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: Donald Trump picked up an endorsement today from someone who has not been a major player in presidential politics. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. DARRELL SCOTT, REVEREND MINISTER: We had a very productive, constructive meeting. We made history today -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes -- SCOTT: Because we had a meaningful dialogue with Mr. Donald Trump -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you endorsing him? -- (CROSSTALK) SCOTT: I support Donald Trump -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you endorsing him? SCOTT: And everybody knows -- everybody knows -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And not listen to -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you endorsing him? SCOTT: Everybody knows that -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, are you -- (CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Endorse, yes -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Endorsement? SCOTT: Yes! (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: That`s Pastor Darrell Scott from Ohio who along with other African-American religious leaders met with Donald Trump today in New York. The Trump campaign canceled a scheduled press conference after discovering that almost everyone else at the meeting with Donald Trump would refuse to endorse him. Joining us now, Maria Teresa Kumar, President and CEO of Voto Latino and host of "CHANGING AMERICA" on shift by Msnbc. Also with us, Jonathan Allen, co-author of "HRC: State Secrets and the Rebirth of Hillary Clinton". Ad back with us, Joy Reid. Joy Reid, who were those guys? Who were those people at that meeting? I have never seen Pastor Darrell Scott before -- REID: Yes -- O`DONNELL: So -- REID: Yes. You are not familiar with the good right Reverend Darrell Scott. O`DONNELL: No. REID: So -- So, when I heard -- first heard about this meeting that is going to take place, I immediately called friends of mine in Cleveland, because Pastor Darrell Scott has a church in Cleveland Heights, Ohio, not Cleveland. O`DONNELL: Uh-huh. REID: And, no one could tell me who he was. They had not heard of him. The folks I talked to were very politically involved. Did not know him. But, apparently, he has a church in Cleveland Heights. He is a friend of Donald Trump for quite a few years. He actually became friends with Donald Trump`s business manager about five years ago. They formed a bond. He, himself, is an endorser of Donald Trump. Now, the rest of the pastors that he invited to that meeting, and if you go back and look at what you just showed -- O`DONNELL: So, he was kind of the leader of getting people there? REID: He can be. O`DONNELL: OK. REID: Most of the people who came to the meeting had never met Donald Trump before. O`DONNELL: Uh-huh. REID: He was, actually, bringing together pastors he knew to try to get them interested in the Trump campaign. He is an endorser. Now, I think what was more important in that video that you have just showed was the woman off to his left. I guess, stage left, which is Omarosa Manigault, who you can actually see the video right there. Omarosa. (LAUGHING) O`DONNELL: Who he met on a reality T.V. show. REID: Who, actually, is herself a pastor. O`DONNELL: Ah! REID: Omarosa since being on "The Apprentice" has become a minister. O`DONNELL: The many roles. REID: So, she is actually one of the pastors who was at the event. And, the interesting thing for Donald Trump is will Omarosa who is well-known, of course, to America through "The Apprentice" -- will she endorse Donald Trump, because she would, actually be the highest profile endorser in that group, not Pastor Scott, who is not well-known. O`DONNELL: Well, Maria Teresa, she was on this network -- gee, I think -- It was on one of the weekend shows in the morning, months ago, saying, no, she would not support him, that she was a democrat. And, so, there is there is video of that somewhere in the tank here at MSNBC. But, so, here is Donald Trump in his big appeal to broaden his base today. MARIA TERESA KUMAR, VOTO LATINO PRESIDENT: So, I think -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have many, many endorsements that came out of the meeting. I do not think we have backlash. I saw love in that room. I see love everywhere I go. OMAROSA MANIGAULT, FORMER "THE APPRENTICE" CONTESTANT: Are you going to change your tone going forward? TRUMP: Well, you know, the tone has taken me to first position in every single poll, including state and including national polls. The beautiful thing about the meeting is they really did not ask me to change the tone. I think they want to see victory. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Maria Teresa, can you imagine a meeting like that where they would not ask him to change the tone? KUMAR: Not at all. But, what I find really interesting is that it is the old world way of doing politicking with the new world of politicking coming to the head, right? So, even ten years ago, it would be very easy that he could have met with African-American pastors. No one would have known the better. And, all of a sudden slowly creeping doing the politics behind closed doors and actually gotten a few endorsements. Now, social media, got a wind of it. In less than, you know, 72 hours, all of these pastors, actually, had to stand down and recognize that, that whatever they said on behalf of Trump was actually going to hurt them almost immediately overnight. Before there is very rarely to have political consequences so quickly, but now because of social media, he basically got -- he basically got stopped on arrival. O`DONNELL: And, Jonathan Allen, he continues his lying tour about what happened in New Jersey on 9/11, continued it on Sunday shows this weekend. He will not loosen his grip on that particular lie. But, we are now hearing from his supporters out there and his interviews people are grabbing with him that they just think, "Well, OK. That, you know, that is his lie but people in Washington are telling worse lies than the lies Donald Trump tells." So, apparently, they have been worn down to the point where they are willing to accept lies. JONATHAN ALLEN, AUTHOR, HRC: Yes, we are going for the lowest common lie denominator, I do not know. Look, Donald Trump says what he wants. He says what he thinks will be popular, and the truth be damned. We have seen it time and again. And, tonight, it is not just about what would happen or did not happen on new jersey rooftops after 9/11. He is not backing down at all. And, by the way, I was on that show with Omarosa. She indeed is a democrat and I believe she actually worked in the Clinton White House at one time. O`DONNELL: Yes, yes, that is right. That is right. Yes. And, was it Steve Kornacki show or was it Melissa Harris-Perry? ALLEN: It was "Up." O`DONNELL: It was a Saturday morning show. Yes. We are going to get that tape and so, we are going to lock her in to that position. REID: But, at the same, Lawrence -- if I may, there is an interesting sort of back story that is going on. Within the African-American community, of course, the pastor sort of world, that world of the church is the centripetal force that moves the black vote traditionally. And, you have under the radar, a riff between that part of the traditional black vote and the Black Lives Matter Organizations, which are much younger and disconnected from the black church. So, I think the interesting thing is that Donald Trump, as, you know, wacky as he is, is sort of exploiting a potential riff between the kind of old school black preacherody, if want to. Call it that. And, sort of new school, Black Lives Matter Organization. Notice, he blamed the Black Lives Matter for that group not endorsing him. He is trying to exploit something that is actually potentially there, which is a generational sort of riff between these two parts of the civil rights movement. So, that is sort of interesting. But, I would watch to see if Omarosa, who is a democrat, who did work for the Clinton campaign, does endorse. Because what Donald Trump right now does not have are black validaters, who are well-known and with respected among black people, or just well-known period. So, it will be interesting to watch -- O`DONNELL: So, the best he could do is a well-known reality star? (LAUGHING) REID: Yes. KUMAR: No. But, I think that he, actually, has that problem along the lines of validaters that are women, that are people of -- that are Latinos. REID: Yes. KUMAR: That are African-American. The actual base that he needs in order to get to the White House. ALLEN: I think what Maria Teresa -- O`DONNELL: Go ahead, Jonathan. ALLEN: I was going to say I think is what Maria Teresa is saying is the reason that Donald Trump is going to win an overwhelming share of the African-American vote, certainly not in a general election, probably not in a primary but I think what he is trying to do is find a racial or ethnic or any other type of minority that he can go to and not already have basically poisoned the well, if you will. Latinos, if you look at Muslims in this country, you know, you go through the groups and pretty soon he is alienated a lot of them. REID: Yes. You know, republican primary that is not about black and Latino voters, because there really are not any in the republican primary. That is about white suburban voters, who want permission to go with Donald Trump. That is what he is trying to give them. O`DONNELL: All right, quick break. When we come back, Chris Christie has finally found something he disagrees with Donald Trump about, we will be right back. (MUSIC PLAYING) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: Chris Christie has finally taken on one of the lies of Donald Trump. Chris Christie is calling out Trump for lying about having seen thousands and thousands of people celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11. Here is what Christie said about that today. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It did not happen. And, the fact is that, you know, people can say anything, but the facts are the facts. And, that did not happen in New Jersey that day. It has not happened sense. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: It took Chris Christie quite a while to get up his courage to say that. His first reaction to Trump`s lie was this. "I do not remember that and so it is not something that was a part of my recollection. I think if it had happened, I would remember it, but, you know, there could be things I forget, too." And, Jonathan Allen, maybe it is because he got a big endorsement in New Hampshire today, the newspaper there, endorsing Chris Christie for president. ALLEN: They were saying that Chris Christie surge right now. O`DONNELL: Yes. (LAUGHING) ALLEN: It might get all of the way up to like, I do not know, 10 percent, 15 percent. Look, Chris Christie is still toward the bottom of the republican field. And, the endorsement from the New Hampshire paper is not going to change that. O`DONNELL: Let us take a look at the poll -- the latest poll in New Hampshire, which shows Chris Christie way down there at 4 percent. Let us get this up on the screen. He is way down at 4 percent below Jeb Bush. And, the Manchester Union Leader decides to endorse Chris Christie, which we should know that since 1980, the Manchester Union Leader has endorsed one person that became president, that was Ronald Reagan. And, Joy, last time around, 2012, they endorsed Newt Gingrich. REID: Come on. O`DONNELL: No, it gets worse. It gets worse, OK? They endorsed McCain, you know, who then -- the time before that he did get the nomination. But, in reverse order, they endorsed Steve Forbes, Pat Buchanan, twice. Two times in a row. In 1988, of course, they endorsed Pete Dupont. And, so, you know, as I mentioned to Rachel when she was handing off the show to me that they are not afraid of picking a loser. REID: They are not afraid -- what? No, really? Rudy Giuliani? I mean Chris Christie is the Rudy Giuliani of -- O`DONNELL: No. Newt Gingrich last time. Newt Gingrich last time. REID: Yes. Chris Christie is about 0.0 chance of being the republican nominee but bully for him that he got an endorsement from the Manchester Union Leader. O`DONNELL: And, Maria Teresa, the Ted Cruz surge seems as though it might be a little more real. He is coming up in polls in Iowa and he might be able to pull that off. KUMAR: Well, I think he has, basically, been very closely following the lead of Donald Trump and basically recognizes that his base is whoever Donald Trump`s base is. And, he is playing that very closely to his vest. But, I think what is interesting though is with the "Star Ledger" literally called today the editorial board over New Hampshire and said, have you been following this guy? Do you actually know what he has done as governor? And, the guy is kind of shrugged and said, "Actually, we do not." So, that was curious. (LAUGHING) O`DONNELL: Yes. They do not need information up there. KUMAR: No. O`DONNELL: Joy Reid, Maria Teresa Kumar and Jonathan Allen, thank you all for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it. Tonight on Twitter, I asked you to send your guesses, what is in this picture? What is that? And "L" tweeted, "I helped raise money for one and train a driver a few years back." She got it right. The answer is coming up. (MUSIC PLAYING) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: A 35-year-old Jennifer Markovsky moved to Colorado from Hawaii ten years ago when her husband Paul was reassigned by the United States Army. Jennifer accompanied a friend to Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs on Friday, where she was murdered just for being there. Jennifer had two children, ages 10 and 6. The friend Jennifer accompanied to Planned Parenthood was shot and wounded in the hand. Jennifer Markovsky`s husband, Paul, released this statement tonight. "I am shocked and deeply saddened by the tragic loss of my wife. She was a very caring and compassionate person and patient and understanding parent. She was deeply loved by all who knew her. She was always helping the kids do homework and reading books with them. We will miss her, her cooking, crafting, and adventurous spirit. We ask for privacy now as we try to begin the grief and healing process." University of Colorado Police Officer Garrett Swasey was one of the first to arrive on the scene Friday`s shooting and he did the most courageous thing you could possibly do under the circumstances. He ran toward the shooter, toward the gunfire. Officer Swasey was shot and killed. He was a six-year veteran of the university police. He was a Junior National Couple`s Ice Dancing Champion in the early 1990s. Former U.S. National champion, Nancy Kerrigan remembers that she skated with Garrett Swasey in Boston when they were both kids there. Officer Swasey leaves his wife Rachel, 11-year-old son Elijah and 6-year- old daughter Faith. He was 44 years old. Officer Swasey`s wife Rachel said this. "His greatest joys were his family, his church, and his profession. We will cherish his memory, especially those times he spent tossing the football to his son and snuggling with his daughter on the couch." A 29-year-old Ke`Arre Stewart survived the Iraq war, but he could not survive a visit to planned parenthood. The Iraq war veteran was the father of two girls, 11 years and 6 years old. He was shot on the parking lot, but that did not stop him. He continued moving into the clinic to warn others before he was shot to death. Ke`Arre Stewart accompanied his pregnant girlfriend to Planned Parenthood on Friday. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KENTANYA CRAION, KE`ARRE STEWART`S GIRLFRIEND: He sounded like an A-K, you could hear like just gunshots. And, from there the bullets went through the wall. You could see it. You could smell it. (END VIDEO CLIP) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LEYONTE CHANDLER, KE`ARRE STEWART`S BROTHER: He is the only brother that I had, and he took that away from me. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: So, I asked you to guess what this is. On Twitter earlier, I told you it was -- it is made in Malawi and at least a couple of you got the right answers. The big winners of tonight`s quiz are next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: Tomorrow is giving Tuesday. After all that spending on the Friday after thanksgiving and today cyber Monday comes giving Tuesday, which is ruled by the spirit of generosity. It is a day marked globally and dedicated to giving back. It is a simple idea. Just find a way for your family, your community, your organization to try to give something more. MSNBC has decided to get a head start on giving Tuesday right now by officially launching giving Tuesday on this program with my suggestion about how you can contribute to giving Tuesday. I asked you to guess what this is earlier tonight. And, we have a couple of winners. A few of you -- a couple of you guessed that it is an ambulance. Seal Anne and Mike Graham are the big winner on our Twitter contest tonight. Here is another view of that ambulance with the top open. The patient in distress is placed on that stretcher and then the roof is lowered over the patient to offer protection from the intense African sun or from the intense rain during rainy season. There is a cheaper version of this ambulance that does not have a roof on it. The ambulance can be hooked to the back of a bicycle but in a lot of cases, it is simply pulled by someone on foot. Now, we are lucky enough to live in a country where if we ever do have to ride in an ambulance it will be a lot fancier. But, in most parts of Malawi, you would be lucky if this ambulance showed up to get you. Most villages do not even have an ambulance like this. But, more of them do now. Thanks to the K.I.N.D. fund, Kids In Need of Desks, the program that we created here on this program in partnership with UNICEF five years ago, to build these desks in Malawi and to deliver them in schools that do not have any desks. The K.I.N.D. fund did not pay for that ambulance. I do not want you to think that. But this ambulance is made in one of our factories in Malawi that make desks for the K.I.N.D. fund, such is the synergy of the marketplace. Because that factory has a large order from the K.I.N.D. fund to make thousands of desks, that factory has ordered large amounts of supplies of steel and wood. That factory is now in an active supply chain that makes it ready to produce other products, to expand its business, to hire more workers. Building desks is still the primary business of that factory, but they are now also capable of filling smaller orders from time to time for ambulances like the one we showed you and hospital beds made of steel. The steel they have imported from South Africa primarily to make the desks. The K.I.N.D. fund is an education program. Our mission is to get desks in the schools that otherwise would never have desks. And, also to pay for the continuing education of girls in Malawi where girl`s graduation rate from high school is a fraction of the boys` graduation rate. But, before the K.I.N.D. fund creates a desk it creates a job. Many jobs. Making those desks. When we started the K.I.N.D. fund five years ago, Motion hired a handful of workers to make desks in the small space behind his hardware store in Lilongwe, the capital city of Malawi. Motion is now making those desks in a large factory out on the edge of town and he plans to move to an even bigger factory that he is building right now. Steve Musali is one of the factory workers whose lives have been changed. Thanks to your generosity to the K.I.N.D. Fund. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEVE MUSALI, FACTORY WORKER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) O`DONNELL (voice-over): Steve dropped out of high school and his youngest sister, who is still in school, thanks to his ability to pay her high school tuition fees. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL (on camera): Public high school is not free in Malawi. And, if the family can manage to pay tuition for a student, that is more likely to be one of the boys in the family, who gets that support than one of the girls. Steve told me his life changed when he got this job. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEVE MUSALI, FACTORY WORKER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) O`DONNELL (voice-over): He said before he got the job, he could not afford to stay in a house. And, food was, as he put it, a bit of a problem. Now he says, "I can stay in a respectable house and I can afford to feed my family." (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL (on camera): Steve lights up when he talks about his 2-year-old son, Stanley. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEVE MUSALI, FACTORY WORKER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) O`DONNELL (voice-over): He said that he is proud to know that one day Stanley will be sitting at a desk that he made. Steve said Stanley will be able to tell his classmates, quote, "This is my father`s work." (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL (on camera): You can help Steve Musali continue that work by contributing to the K.I.N.D. Fund at You can contribute a desk or girls` tuition in the name of someone on your Christmas gift list. That is someone who has everything. And, if you cannot afford to contribute this year, perhaps you can help us by tweeting about the K.I.N.D. Fund or mentioning it on Facebook. I have never seen more pure joy and excitement than when these desks that you have contributed arrived at the school. Imagine the excitement for Steve Musali, a few years from now when he walks his son, Stanley, to school for the first time. Imagine Steve`s pride when he watches Stanley sit at that school desk for the first time. Those magical moments will all have been made possible by your continuing generosity to the K.I.N.D. Fund. Imagine the day that little Stanley Musali sits at his desk for the first time. The first day of school is going to be exciting enough for Stanley. But, he is going to experience something else, something very special that we hope all children can feel about their parents. As Stanley studies his new desk, feels it for the first time, imagine how proud he will be when he turns to the kids beside him and says, this is my father`s work. END