The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell, Transcript 09/02/15

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: That was earlier tonight, now -- where`s the big gov? -- That was earlier tonight, now Jeb Bush has just responded with a hilarious comedy routine of his own. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hey, Stephen, I`m at the Philadelphia airport. I thought the host was Amy Schumer. I totally blew it. But since it`s you, we`re lowering our contest fee to $1 and I`ll enter yours with a donation to the yellow ribbon fund. (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: Jeb Bush tonight from the Philadelphia airport, trying to get ahead of the feud he just started with Stephen Colbert right before he starts his late-night show. How this plays out -- what this means, we do not yet know, it`s all happening right now. That does it for us tonight, we`ll see you again tomorrow. Now, it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good evening Lawrence, welcome back -- LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Good evening -- good evening Rachel, thank you -- MADDOW: Thank you -- O`DONNELL: Thank you very much. Well, when reporter Alison Parker and camera operator Adam Ward were killed on live television exactly one week ago today. Alison`s father, Andy Parker, at the end of his first day as a grieving father said this: (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANDY PARKER, FATHER OF ALISON PARKER: You know, and the problem that you guys have is that -- and I know it`s the news business, isn`t it? This is a big story, but next week it isn`t going to be a story anymore and everybody`s going to forget it. I`m going to do something, no matter whatever it takes to get gun legislation to shame people, to shame legislators into doing something about closing loopholes and background checks and making sure crazy people don`t get guns. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Andy Parker said then that next week this wouldn`t be a story, but here it is next week and Andy Parker is going to be our first guest. In an Op-ed in Sunday`s "Washington Post", Andy Parker named names including a member of Congress who represents the area where the double murder took place. Andy Parker wrote, "we must focus our attention on the legislators who are responsible for America`s criminally weak gun laws. Legislators such as representative Bob Goodlatte who represents Roanoke where the shooting took place on live television. In his more than two years as chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Goodlatte has had plenty of opportunity to bring up universal background check legislation and other gun violence prevention bills he has refused to lead. On the other hand, Goodlatte had no problem cashing his check from the National Rifle Association during the 2014 election cycle. Shame on him." On Monday night, Andy Parker, his family and friends gathered to remember Alison and celebrate her life. On Sunday, the National Rifle Association welcomed Andy Parker to the gun control debate this way: (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turning this murder into a gun control dog and pony show minutes after the shooting because you can`t make sense of what just happened is ridiculous. To the parents of Alison Parker and Adam Ward, I have no right to tell any parent how to grieve for the loss of their child. Grievance-inspired advocacy can be extremely effective and powerful. And I`ll say, run full speed to find a way to end violence like this. However, sometimes in a fight, we can become so emotional, everyone and things starts looking like the enemy, even if they`re there to help us. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Andy Parker. Andy Parker, first of all, I just want to say I`m very sorry for your loss, I don`t know how to find the words for a moment like this and I can`t imagine what you`ve been through just in the last week and that horrible day a week ago. And I just want to begin with that note. PARKER: Well, I appreciate it, Lawrence. I am -- as you can imagine, I`m kind of running on fumes right now. O`DONNELL: Well, you know, you made a vow a week ago tonight that running on fumes in effect is what you would do, you would do anything to be out there pushing this argument, as you have done. You`ve seen now the response, one response any way from the National Rifle Association, in effect accusing you of making this a dog and pony show. PARKER: You know, I`ve -- it`s -- that`s the typical response that the NRA leadership -- that`s typically what they do. Of course, there`s emotion involved. Of course, you`re going to have that visceral reaction, but rather than just not say anything, I have chosen to take on this fight because somebody`s got to do it. There -- it`s -- I think there have been -- oh, gosh, I don`t know how many murders since Alison and Adam were murdered. It`s gotten to the point where I think people have had enough. It reminds me of the old movie "Network" where, you know -- some of us are old enough to remember it, it`s one of my favorite movies. But it`s -- you know, when Howard Beale sticks his head out the window and -- or gets people to stick their heads out of the window and say we`re mad as hell and we`re not going to take it anymore. And I think we`re reaching that point. You know, each time we thought that the Sandy Hook was going to make a difference or Aurora was going to make a difference, that that was the -- that was the tipping point, there`s something different about this, this time, Lawrence. I really -- honest to God, I have to believe that this time there is going to be something done. And it`s -- you know, it`s not -- you know, we`re not trying to take people`s guns away. I`ve said that from the get-go, but that`s generally the -- that`s the first push back from the leadership of the NRA and that doesn`t represent the majority of its members. O`DONNELL: Well, what is your own personal history with this subject? The subject of gun control. What is your position on it been in the past and have you ever been active on it before? PARKER: Well, I haven`t until something like this transforms your life. You think about it, and I`ve -- listen, I`ve -- when I -- when I was a kid, I had a shotgun and a 22 and I would go hunting, and I have no problem with the second amendment. I have no problem with people owning firearms. And most people -- most responsible gun owners are just that. I don`t have a problem with it. But what I do have a problem with and what we`re trying to address now -- and I`ve been -- because of the visiting with family and you know, doing the media programs that I`ve done. I have been kind of learning on the fly and I haven`t had a chance to really dig down in the weeds, but the problem I have is the loopholes. Think it`s the low-hanging fruit. It`s -- you know, it is common sense stuff, the guy on the -- on the video was saying, you know, well, you know, making or mocking the fact that we`re trying to get common sense gun legislation. But it is -- it`s just -- it`s closing gun loopholes and it`s making sure that people that are disturbed can`t get access to weapons. And this was -- this gun violence restraining order bill that was passed in California could have been passed in the state of Virginia. And there were two legislators, you know, one John Edwards, Senator John Edwards that has witnessed the -- you know, he`s been on board in the Senate since Virginia Tech, and now this. He`s got two horrific incidents and he`s a Democrat and he still opposes any kind of reasonable gun control legislation. It`s mind boggling. O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what Donald Trump said about this, which is, I think, typical of most Republican comment on it. Let`s listen to it. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you do something different with gun policy? DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I don`t think I would because this is really a sick person. This isn`t a gun problem, this is a mental problem. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Andy, you`ve heard that many times, not just from Donald Trump, I`m sure in the last week. This isn`t a gun problem. This is a mental problem. PARKER: Oh, of course, it`s -- you know, and they have it half right. It`s -- it is a mental problem, but it`s also a gun problem and you know, I think reasonable people realize that there`s a linkage there. And again, we`re not trying to say we`re going to take your guns away. We`re just trying to keep guns out of the hands of people that are disturbed. The guy that was -- that -- and I don`t even remember his name because he`s -- you know, he`s meaningless at this point. But he was escorted -- he was escorted by police from the building when they -- when they -- when they fired in the "Wdbj". I mean, he caused such a scene and a -- and a disturbance, he had to be escorted by police. That`s a red flag. Those are the kind of things that need to be in a database so that when someone tries to buy a gun, when somebody -- you know, when the mother, you know, says, you know, calls the sheriff and says gee, we`re really worried about our son. He`s really doing some weird things, you know, we need to take the guns out of the house -- law enforcement can`t do that. And you know, it`s just -- it is common sense. I mean, why wouldn`t you want to do that? O`DONNELL: And Andy, when any of these previous events that occurred in a movie theater or say at Virginia Tech, did it ever go through your mind as a parent -- especially something like Virginia Tech which happened in your state. What if Alison had been there? Did that ever cross your mind? PARKER: Of course, of course, I -- you know, it was -- it was something that we thought of all the time. And especially being in the media. It was -- she worried about it. I mean, she was just concerned that, yes, there are -- there are crazy people in this world and that somebody was going to attack her. I mean she always had that -- she -- you know, not constantly but I know when in talking with Chris, her boyfriend, he said she had that underlying fear. And I had this tremendous foreboding. I don`t know what it was, but you know, it was always just kind of there and I -- because of the business that she was in. And that`s -- I think that`s why things are different this time because she`s one of you guys. I mean, she was a journalist. She was one of you guys and as I mentioned the other day in talking with the -- with the media after I did my meeting with the governor, it could have been any one of them. It could have been any one of you. And I think that`s what`s -- that`s what makes it somewhat different this time and that`s why I don`t think you guys are going to let it die. O`DONNELL: Andy Parker, thank you very much for joining us tonight, and again, I`m very sorry for your loss. PARKER: Thank you for giving me the opportunity, Lawrence, I appreciate it. O`DONNELL: Thank you. Coming up, President Obama gets a win today on the Iran deal. And later, another Kentucky County Clerk is now denying marriage licenses. That clerk; one of the three in Kentucky will join me. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: President Obama is now the first president to travel north of the Arctic Circle. The President has given a speech on climate change tonight after visiting an Arctic town of about 3,000 people. A town that is battling rising seas there in Alaska. Earlier today, the President went to one of the world`s largest Sockeye salmon and fisheries and took a few selfies for the White House Instagram account. Up next, a major win for the President on Iran. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We can sum up by saying that without this agreement, the Iranians would have several potential pathways to a bomb? With it, they won`t have any. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: That was Secretary of State John Kerry in Philadelphia this morning. Once again, explaining the details of the Iran nuclear deal. Just before that speech, Secretary Kerry and President Obama secured the support of the Democratic Senator Barbara Mikulski of Maryland, which means that the Obama administration now has enough support in the Senate to guarantee the deal will go through. Former Vice President Dick Cheney remains unembarrassed by his public record of false predictions in that region. And this morning on Msnbc`s "MORNING JOE", he said this about the Iran deal. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think there is another possibility of 9/11. I think next time it may involve something far deadlier than airline tickets and box cutters. And on the agreement itself, you`re going to have -- I think rapidly, the deal with a problem, proliferation of nuclear weapons in the Middle East. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Phyllis Bennis, a fellow with the Institute for Policy Studies, Reza Marashi, Research Director for the National Iranian American Council and Tim Pawlenty, CEO of Financial Services Roundtable and former Governor of Minnesota and former Republican presidential candidate. Phyllis Bennis, your reaction to this development today where in effect this deal is now locked in place? PHYLLIS BENNIS, INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES: Well, it`s a huge relief that we`re not going to be seeing the United States pulling out of an agreement that it signed with six major countries around the world that is now an official signed unanimously supported U.N. Security Council Resolution. This is not just a bilateral agreement between the U.S. and Iran, this is a huge victory for diplomacy over the threat of war. And I think that we should be very happy about it. I would hope that it goes further and that we can get 41 votes instead of only 34 so that we won`t have to deal with this whole issue of a veto and whether the veto will be supported. But it is a huge relief that we know that the deal will go through. This is a hugely important deal, although it`s narrowly framed, it deals only with Iran`s potential future capacity to build a nuclear weapon, if they ever decided to. Something that all 16 U.S. military -- intelligence agencies agree they have not decided to do, but if they ever decided to do it, they wouldn`t be able to do it. That`s a good thing. It`s a good thing that sanctions are going to be lifted because they have been crippling the economy of ordinary Iranians. And it lays the foundation -- I think what hasn`t been discussed enough, it lays a possibility, not a certainty, but a possibility for much further new negotiations. Negotiations between the U.S. and Iran on ending the war in Iraq -- we -- and ending the war in Syria. All of these things require real negotiations and the exclusion of Iran from those negotiations as we`ve seen in the past has meant that there has been a failure of negotiations. Maybe now we have a possibility for that. Maybe now, we have the possibility of creating a nuclear weapons-free zone throughout the Middle East, dealing for the first time with the Israeli nuclear weapons arsenal which is destabilizing the region as we speak. All of that may be possible in the future. But the first thing is, now we`ve done it, it`s a huge victory that now we have guaranteed that at least this first step, the nuclear deal as it exists now, is going to be passed. O`DONNELL: Hillary Clinton tweeted tonight, "great news that the Iran deal has enough votes. As POTUS, I would aggressively enforce it and counter Iran`s other malicious activities." Tim Pawlenty, it`s hard to follow exactly what Donald Trump says, but Hillary Clinton seems to be in agreement with Donald Trump who has said that he would also enforce this deal. All the other Republicans -- the Republican presidential candidates are opposed to it, many of them saying they`d rip it up in the first day in office. How do you expect this to play out (AUDIO GAP: 00:04:02.29) -- next year in the general election? TIM PAWLENTY, FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: Well, a few things, Lawrence. First of all, you in the lead-in, you described this as a huge victory for the President. Majority of the United States Senate, maybe a strong majority of the United States Senate is going to not support the action to ratify this agreement. I think it`s an alarmingly bad deal for all the reasons that have been discussed, but even if you don`t like my view of it, just measure it against the President`s and the administration`s own benchmark for what would be a good deal. And they said by the way, they`d rather have no deal than a bad deal and this deal doesn`t even meet their own benchmarks. And that`s the Donald Trump`s comments. I think what he is saying, probably for me to speak for Donald Trump. I think what he`s probably saying is, look, if the Congress isn`t going to be able to stop this, the damage is done and he would try to make the most out of enforcing the agreement, make the best he could out of a bad deal. O`DONNELL: Reza Marashi, your reaction to the developments today which -- with this vote, Barbara Mikulski`s announcement -- there`s still ten senators we haven`t heard from. But as of now, this deal seems locked in place. REZA MARASHI, RESEARCH DIRECTOR, NATIONAL IRANIAN AMERICAN COUNCIL: The deal is locked in place, it`s absolutely locked in place. What we`re really arguing over now in the United States Congress is whether or not Obama is going to have to use his veto. And if he can reach 41 Democratic Senators, then it`s going to be a moot point and then that will be a first round knockout for the president. But this is the most intrusive and well put-together nonproliferation agreement in the history of the world. And this is going to be a model that`s going to be used going forward for future nonproliferation agreements. So, it is not only exceeded the benchmark set forward by the United States, it`s also exceeded the benchmarks that have been put forward by all of our allies and countries like China and Russia who have relationships that ebb and flow. And so, the reality of the situation is that, no deal is going to be perfect. Because a perfect deal means you get everything that you want. But the reality of the situation is that, we`ve gotten more than we anticipated that we would get and it creates a precedent for the future that`s much stronger than anything that existed prior to these negotiations taking place. O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what John Kerry said this morning on "MORNING JOE" about this issue of how long does the deal actually last? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KERRY: It never sunsets. There`s no sunset in this agreement. There`s a ten-year extra strong restraint on what they can do. There`s a 15-year restraint on what they can do. There`s a 20-year restraint, there`s a 25-year restraint which requires all their uranium to be tracked from the mine to the grave. But the additional protocol and the requirement to live under access and inspection is for the lifetime of this agreement. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Tim Pawlenty, a quick reaction on what John Kerry said about the lifetime of this deal. PAWLENTY: Well, even if you accept his math, which I don`t -- even, he is saying there are periods that extinguish that sunset or you know, come to an end. But you know, it starts with the notion that Iran lies. You know, so the idea that we can trust them without the anytime, anywhere inspections, allowing them to take samples like Parchin and then send that to the IAEA and do that on their own without any third party (AUDIO GAP: 00:02:21.28) - - samples. You know, the fact that they continue to be able to enrich uranium, all of which they -- the Obama administration said were not going to be allowed, but now are allowed. BENNIS: No, they`re not -- PAWLENTY: That and many other things make this an alarmingly bad deal. And it`s going to be a legacy item for the President, and I think it`s going to be a very bad legacy item for him and for our country`s security, our friend, Israel, for the region and for the world. O`DONNELL: Phyllis Bennis, a quick last word on this. BENNIS: Quite the contrary. This is an extraordinarily tight agreement and it puts more restrictions on Iran that have ever been put on any country, including 24/7 immediate inspections of any nuclear facilities. It`s not true, the claims that they`re going to be able to do their own inspections. It`s simply not born-up by the facts. O`DONNELL: Phyllis Bennis and Reza Marashi, thank you both very much for joining us tonight. Coming up next, breaking news about Hillary Clinton`s e-mails. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: We have breaking news at this hour on the Hillary Clinton e- mail situation at the State Department. Msnbc.com is reporting that a Clinton e-mail staffer who has been subpoenaed plans to -- plans to plead the fifth amendment instead of testify. Report saying a former Hillary Clinton staffer who helped set up the former Secretary of State`s private e-mail server has vowed to plead the fifth amendment and refused to answer questions after Congressional committee subpoenaed him. Msnbc confirmed this late Wednesday, this was also reported in "The Washington Post" Wednesday. "An IT specialist who helped set up Hillary Clinton`s e-mail system said he would refuse to answer questions, asserting his constitutional right against self incrimination." That`s Bryan Pagliano who worked for Secretary Clinton during her 2008 presidential campaign and at the State Department has been identified in digital records as the person who set up the e-mail server in 2009. Mr. Pagliano`s lawyer said, "while we understand that Mr. Pagliano`s response to this subpoena may be controversial in the current political environment, we hope that the members of the select committee will respect our client`s right." Joining us now, Joy Reid, an Msnbc national correspondent and Richard Wolffe, the executive editor of Msnbc.com. Richard, you`re leading with this report tonight, "Washington Post" is also -- contained some of this information. This is kind of an extraordinary development in this, when you hear of someone involved in setting up that e-mail for Secretary Clinton, now saying that he will not testify for fear of self incrimination. RICHARD WOLFFE, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, MSNBC.COM: Right, well, of course, it`s perfectly within his constitutional rights to do what he is doing. But from a political perspective, this looks as bad as deleting e-mails. It`s a distraction, a further complication for the Clinton campaign and a story that they should have put to rest already. And again, from an individual perspective, completely understandable, given the political context of what`s going on. But Hillary Clinton is running for president, she is still the Democratic frontrunner and I expect her to continue to be in that position. But this e-mail story won`t go away, and while it`s there, she cannot talk about the things that should be driving her candidacy. O`DONNELL: Joy Reid, you were at the Joe Biden event today in Florida where he was received warmly and gave a speech about community college, which if you just kind of thought about it for a second, sound an awful lot like a campaign speech at certain moments. But this is the kind of development that some Democrats have been thinking about when they wonder whether a Biden candidacy is good for this field or bad for this field. JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Lawrence, I mean, I think there have been various reasons why there has been a market for a Hillary alternative. I think early in the process, when you talk to Democratic operatives, what they would say is, we shouldn`t have a party that just coordinates the candidates, we should have a contest. And it`s extraordinary that there aren`t more contenders. And then you would hear just sort of a general kind of lack of enthusiasm, particularly some members of the sort of more liberal wing of the party who feel that Hillary Clinton in a lot of ways is too hawkish, things like a rock, turn them off. And, then, you know, I have been recently talking with a lot of real Obama democrats, Obama people who feel that they have this yearning for Joe Biden to get in because they feel that he is closer to Barack Obama`s legacy. And, as one pointed out to me when I spoke to them yesterday, there is a reason why we picked Obama over Hillary the first time. But, you know, I think that is part of it. And, I think this e-mail story, which the media definitely is hanging onto, even with some revised headlines. "The Washington Post" had to revise some of their more extraordinary headlines. It is clearer and I think the campaign understands this story will dog her all the way to the end. O`DONNELL: And, Tim Pawlenty, this is Bryan Pagliano`s attorney, who is confirming that he intends to plead the Fifth Amendment. So, the sourcing on this is public in these articles at MSNBC and of the "Washington Post." PAWLENTY: This is a big development, Lawrence. And, obviously, this is going to be very detrimental, continually detrimental to Hillary`s campaign until she can try to get this resolved one way or the other. But, the problem is there is going to be a release of these e-mails every month. This is going to be a drip, drip, drip. And, let us face it, as a candidate, she is coming across as stiff, awkward, defensive, the Clinton tanks surround her. This brings back that narrative. And, I think Joe Biden is like, you know, George C. Scott in the Patton. He looks at the battlefield, the smoldering battlefield. And, he says, you know, God help me I love it so. I think he wants to do this. I think he wants to get in and I predict he will get in. O`DONNELL: Let us look at the "Washington Post" poll released today. They released just a favorable and unfavorable today on the candidates. They have Hillary Clinton among registered voters at 46 favorable, 56 unfavorable. Joe Biden at 46 percent favorable. 49 unfavorable. Donald Trump 40 favorable, 58 unfavorable. Jeb Bush, virtually identical to trump, but 38 favorable, 57 unfavorable. Joy Reid, it is hard to read in to that, who has what kind of good news in those favorable/unfavorable numbers. They do not look great for anybody. REID: They are not great for anybody. And, I am sitting here in a state where the single most unpopular governor in the country, Rick Scott, who you cannot find anyone here who says that they are a fan of just got re- elected to his post as governor. So, I mean favorables and unfavorables, do not necessarily translate. And, I think, you know, what the Clinton campaign would tell you, and it is true is it no matter what you look and her favorables look like, she still is in a commanding position versus the other democratic candidates. She remains in a commanding position. And, when you look at democrats and their attitude toward things the e-mails, those kinds of stories have not really hurt her among her core base. I think that Hillary Clinton`s biggest problem is that this e-mail issue is playing out in a congressional committee, controlled by the opposition party that is determined to keep drip, drip, dripping out information about it. And, it is something that is getting traction in the press. She cannot get away from it. So, I think that it is going to continue to sort of draw down her favorables. I do not know if it changes her position in the race, though, at least not right now. O`DONNELL: Richard Wolffe, to go back to this very fresh report about Bryan Pagliano intending to plead the fifth amendment when asked to testify to Benghazi committee. It is hard to conceive of what he would fear a criminal -- a self-incrimination about. I mean this is the guy setting up the e-mail server. WOLFFE: Well, I presume and I have not spoken to his lawyer, and I have not spoken to his lawyer, but I presume that there may be an inference or an investigative line from the republicans on that committee that this was an attempt to avoid the law and evade the law in terms of recordkeeping. It is a narrow issue of criminal possible, you know, culpability here. Having said that, the Benghazi committee is already highly political. If you are an individual going in to that, and I presume he is not used to this kind of attention, you would want to avoid it. O`DONNELL: Tim Pawlenty, Richard Wolffe and Joy Reid, thanks for joining us tonight. PAWLENTY: You are welcome. REID: All right. WOLFFE: Thank you. O`DONNELL: Coming up, the FBI is investigating a new police shooting that was caught on video in Texas. The district attorney there will join us. And, another Kentucky County clerk who does not want to issue marriage licenses to gay couples will join me. (MUSIC PLAYING) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: The refugee crisis is growing in Eastern Europe as thousands of refugees from the violence in Syria trying to make their way into the European Union. But a photograph of a child who died after the boat carrying his family and other refugee sank off the coast of Turkey has shocked Europe. A warning here, some of the photographs that you are about to see are hard to look at. In fact, I have no intention of looking at them again. NBC`s Kelly Cobiella has the story. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KELLY COBIELLA, NBC CORRESPONDENT: It has been days, desperate families are stranded outside a train station in Budapest. No answers. No help, nowhere to go. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Imagine yourself in our place, you are humans. We are humans. You have kids. We have kids. (END VIDEO CLIP) COBIELLA: Hundreds are stuck here. The Hungarian Government refusing to let them board trains out of the country. Sherine Mamaw (ph) walked here with her children. Her brother made it to Germany. She is now alone feeling helpless and hopeless. Europe is a continent in crisis. A warning, this disturbing image shows how bad it has become. The body of one small boy cradled in a Turkish police officer`s arms. He was from Kobani in Syria. his boat sank last night on the way to Greece. And, the Mediterranean keeps claiming lives with 17 more bodies appearing on Libya`s shores. More than a hundred feared dead in that sinking. These are the fortunate ones, saved by the Norwegian coast Guard today. On dry land, Austrian Police stopped this truck on the way to Vienna, freeing 24 teenagers, welded in with no air. And, in France, the high- speed train from Paris to London ground to a halt after migrants tried to climb on top. Here in London, hundreds of passengers were left stranded as the morning trains were cancelled. While on the other side of the English channel, two trains had to turn back because the tracks were blocked. Some passengers even asked to listen for footsteps on the roof of the train. Tonight, the leaders of Germany, Italy and France are calling on all 28 EU nations to take in their, quote, "fair share of refugees." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We just need politicians to listen to their hearts, act like human beings. (END VIDEO CLIP) COBIELLA: While European leaders argue over what to do, hundreds in Hungary are spending another cold night on the concrete in limbo. Kelly Cobiella, NBC News, London. (END VIDEOTAPE) O`DONNELL: Up next, one of the county clerks who is refusing to issue marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples will join us. (MUSIC PLAYING) (COMMERCIA L BREAK) O`DONNELL: Two county clerks in Kentucky are now joining Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis in refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Casey Davis of Casey County and Kay Schwartz of Whitley County have voiced their support for Kim Davis, who continued today to deny marriage licenses to anyone because of her personal convictions against same-sex marriage. This morning, Robbie Blankenship and his fiance Jesse Cruz went to the Rowan county clerk`s office to apply for a marriage license, and Kim Davis refused. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KIM DAVIS, ROWAN COUNTRY CLERK: We are not issuing marriage license today. ROBBIE BLANKENSHIP, APPLICANT FOR A MARRIAGE LICENSE: Actually, the United States Supreme Court has authorities over you. OK. You do not work in a religious institution. If you wish to discriminate -- DAVIS: And, I am telling you this is my office and we are not issuing license today. BLANKENSHIP: If you wish to discriminate -- DAVIS: I am not discriminating -- BLANKENSHIP: Yes, you are. DAVIS: Because we are issuing license to anybody. BLANKENSHIP: Absolutely. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Kim Davis has been ordered by a federal judge to issue the licenses but says she is acting under God`s authority to deny same-sex couples this right. Tomorrow, Kim Davis is due to appear in federal court for a hearing that will determine if she will be held in contempt of court. Joining us now is Casey Davis, County Clerk in Casey County, Kentucky. He is one of the three Kentucky clerks, who is refusing to issue same-sex marriage license. Casey Davis, why are you refusing to issue the licenses? CASEY DAVIS, COUNTY CLERK IN CASEY COUNTY, KENTUCKY: Well, it is simply deeply held religious beliefs that I have, that I do not believe that I can put my name on a marriage license, a same-sex marriage license and be able to sleep with that. O`DONNELL: And, what do you expect to happen tomorrow in federal court over this issue? CASEY DAVIS: I do not know what to expect. I know the senate president and also the speaker of the house have asked repeatedly for the governor to call a special session, so this can be resolved. There is a simple solution that they can be fair to everyone should the governor -- should the governor grant that to them to be able to convene. I think that in all fairness, he should. I think he should do his job. That is part of his job. And, these guys have each asked him for that. There was a five-page brief that was sent to the judge today that he is apparently to look at tonight or tomorrow asking for a stay. So, hopefully, there will be fairness in this. And, that is all we are asking for. We are not asking for the Supreme Court to overturn anything. We just want fairness. O`DONNELL: What is it that you think the state legislature -- you think there is some relief that the state legislature can provide for you against a federal law that applies to all 50 states? CASEY DAVIS: I, absolutely, believe that there is a way that these folks can come to their county and get a marriage license that would simply be authorized by the person solemnizing the wedding. It can be brought back for recordation to the clerk`s office. I think that, you know, Ms. Davis has been bombarded unjustly. I think that if the governor -- if he would be sympathetic to her or anyone that is in this case -- everyone that is in this case, this could end rather quickly. I think that -- O`DONNELL: So, Mr. Davis, I just want to get this clear for the moment. You actually believe that you do not have to treat -- according to federal law, that you do not have to treat all applicants for marriage licenses equally, that they all should enjoy exactly the same process on marriage licenses? You think that the Supreme Court did not say that? CASEY DAVIS: I think that the law of the land as I keep hearing this referred to, I think the law of the land also says that abortion is legal. However, a doctor has the right to say no, I cannot perform that. O`DONNELL: Yes, but Mr. Davis, a doctor is not a government official. A doctor is not a government official. CASEY DAVIS: He is an American. O`DONNELL: You are a government official. You have taken an oath to do this job and to observe the laws. (CROSSTALK) CASEY DAVIS: Do you -- O`DONNELL: And, there is a law -- CASEY DAVIS: Do you mind, if I tell you what sections 36 -- O`DONNELL: There is now a federal law that you have decided not to observe. CASEY DAVIS: Section 26 of the Kentucky constitution says this, that "To guard against transgression of the high powers, which we have delegated, we declare that everything in this bill of rights is excepted out of the general powers of government and shall forever remain inviolate; and all laws contrary thereto, or contrary to this constitution shall be void." It also says that, no human authority shall in any case whatever control or interfere with the rights of conscience. That is the bill of rights for the state of Kentucky, section 5 and 26. And, the oath that Ms. Davis and I took and the other clerks and other officials in this state took, that is part of that oath that is our constitution. And, I think that the Supreme Court has violated that by trying to force that on us. O`DONNELL: Did you attend the law school? CASEY DAVIS: What difference does that make? What does that have to do with anything? I can read what the constitution says, sir. And, it simply says that -- O`DONNELL: Have you read what the United States constitution says? CASEY DAVIS: I know what the state constitution says and I took an oath to both of those. O`DONNELL: But, you see, in your lifetime -- CASEY DAVIS: I also know that the first amendment right that I have. O`DONNELL: In your lifetime have not you seen the government override state laws? CASEY DAVIS: Do you know the first amendment right also says, it also speaks of freedom of speech. And, that is part of your job and wonder when they are going to start trying to take that away from you, sir. O`DONNELL: But, do you know that the federal government has many times, and in your state, for example, ordered the desegregation of schools that your state was not going to do. CASEY DAVIS: This has nothing to do with race, man. O`DONNELL: No, but you understand -- CASEY DAVIS: This has nothing to do with race. O`DONNELL: You do not understand the federal government has this power? You deny the federal government to have this power? CASEY DAVIS: I understand that there is a time coming in your life and mine that I am going to leave this world. And, there is nothing I can do to stop that and there is nothing you can do to stop that. So, the law of nature supersedes anything that man puts on paper. This lifestyle is against the law of nature and I believe that one day -- one day, that we will all understand just how against God`s law that it is, as well. O`DONNELL: Mr. Davis, if you are fined by the federal courts, are you prepared to pay those fines? CASEY DAVIS: I am prepared -- Jesus went to the cross and died for you and for me. So, I am prepared to live for him as long as I have breath in my body. O`DONNELL: Casey Davis, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it. But, the other clerk, Kim Davis is the one who will appear in federal court tomorrow morning and we will be covering that tomorrow night. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: The FBI has launched an investigation into the use of deadly force by two Sheriff`s deputies in Bexar County, Texas. A 41-year-old Gilbert Flores was shot and killed on Friday while sheriff`s deputies were responding to a domestic disturbance call. Michael Thomas, a delivery driver captured the shooting on his cell phone. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (GUNSHOT) (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: This afternoon, Sheriff Susan Pamerleau confirmed there is a second video of the shooting, which the sheriff`s office and the district attorney have viewed but have not publicly released. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Sheriff, in the second video, can you see whether he has both of his hands up? I know in the first video, it is obscured by a pole. In the second video, which is closer and shows it for longer, can you see if he has both of his hands up? SHERIFF SUSAN PAMERLEAU, BEXAR COUNTY SHERIFF: The video is not necessarily closer. It is from a different angle. UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: OK. So, can you see? SHERIFF PAMERLEAU: We saw that. UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Can you confirm that the other hand behind the pole was indeed up? SHERIFF PAMERLEAU: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: It was indeed raised. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: The sheriff was also asked whether Mr. Flores had a knife. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Does it show whether he was -- Mr. Flores was holding a knife right before he was shot? SHERIFF PAMERLEAU: And, the -- we believe that Mr. Flores had a knife in his hand and that video will help us have a better idea of exactly what he had in his hand. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Nico Lahood, the district attorney for Bexar County, Texas. Mr. Lahood, could you explain to us how many investigations are going on now? NICO LAHOOD, BEXAR COUNTY, TEXAS DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There is just one investigation going on. And, it is been conducted by the Bexar County Sheriff`s Office. It is being overlooked by the FBI but it has been conducted and handled by the sheriff`s office. O`DONNELL: And, what about your office. What about the district attorney`s office? LAHOOD: We are the prosecutorial branch of the justice system. So, the way it works is a law enforcement agency conducts an investigation. And, then once they are finished with the investigation, they will hand it over to us. And, then we will make a legal analysis of whether there is going to be official charges on the individuals in this case. O`DONNELL: Do you have any understanding about why that second video has not been publicly released? LAHOOD: I do not believe it should. We do not want to do anything to compromise the integrity of the investigation in to influence the investigation. And, so it is standard practice not to release evidence while there is either an investigation pending or if it gets this far to where there are charges pending. If there is an official charge pending. That is just good practice. O`DONNELL: But, I think you have seen in the last year that there has been an inconsistent area of practice on this issue of releasing videos and that some police departments and some investigative agencies have released video as soon as they have processed it themselves and put it out there specifically because there is such intense public interest in these cases. LAHOOD: I agree with that. And, what I do in the office, we make sure that we do not react to a situation and I just encourage people to take pause and just to wait for the system to play out. What we are going to do is we are going to respond appropriately. We are going to apply Texas law. We are going to take all the evidence in from the sheriff`s investigation and we then we are going to follow our oath. And, our oath is to seek justice, not to listen to national conversation or to let politics seep in to the office. And, if justice means to hold these two deputies accountable, I promise you, we are going to do that. But, if justice means not to because it is a justifiable shoot, then we are going to do that. Then, we are going to follow that way of justice, as well. So, I am going to wait and pause before I make any conclusions in this case. O`DONNELL: What is the standard in Texas law for a police officer in a situation to decide when to use deadly force? Is it necessary for the officer to feel his life or someone else`s life threatened that moment? LAHOOD: Yes, sir. Does he have a reasonable belief of apparent danger. OK. And, then there is a third element to it, is the danger imminent, meaning immediate. So, you look at -- Was his actions reasonable? Was there apparent danger and was that apparent danger immediate? So, those are the kind of the three standards, kind of just in simple form, how we are going to apply to this situation and the standard we are going to look at in deciding whether we go forward with criminal charges. O`DONNELL: And, in the FBI`s role -- I just have to go back to that for a second, your understanding of it is that the FBI is overseeing the local investigation that is going on, but there is already some indication that the FBI is conducting its own civil rights investigation. Does your information different from that? LAHOOD: I am under the same impression. Again, they are going to look at the civil rights violation aspect from the federal law and I am going to look at Texas law here and then the penile code to see if there is a violation then when we look at the case once it is turned over to us. O`DONNELL: And, what do you anticipate the timetable is here? LAHOOD: Well, the sheriff`s department has told us that they could have it to us as soon as the end of this week. Now, I am not going to hold them to that if they do not have it to us by Friday, but I would think it will be here by Friday or sometime early next week is reasonable. O`DONNELL: District Attorney Nico Lahood, thank you very much for joining us, tonight. I really appreciate it. Chris Hayes is up next. . END