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The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell, Transcript 02/05/15

Guests: Zainab Salbi, Asra Nomani, Jerry Coyne, Harold Shinitzky, JordanSchultz, Dr. Justin Frank, Adrian Karatnycky

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Two days after Jordan`s King Abdullah promised a, quote, "earth-shaking" response for the killing of a Jordanian pilot by the Islamic State, as many as 20 Jordanian F-16s launched airstrikes against the Islamic State in Syria. In a statement today, King Abdullah said that the global Muslim community is the primary target of the war waged by terrorists in the Middle East, adding that, quote, "My region is on the front lines." As "The New York Times" reports, Muslims all over the world are condemning the Islamic State`s execution of that Jordanian pilot. In Syria, the government denounced the group, but so did al Qaeda fighters who opposed both the government and the Islamic State. In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood and the Egyptian government, for once, agreed on something, the barbarity of the militant group for the way it murdered the Jordanian. And in Cairo, the head of the 1,000-year-old al Azhar Institute was so angry that he called for the Islamic State extremists to be killed or crucified or their hands and legs cut off. Today, President Obama commented on the Islamic State at the National Prayer Breakfast, the place where presidents go to pander to leaders of organized religions once a year. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: I agree with those who have said that, in my first statement after I testified, I was not contrite enough. I don`t think there is a fancy way to say that I have sinned. It is important to me that everybody who has been hurt know that the sorrow I feel is genuine. GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: At this hour, we have troops that are assembling in the Middle East. There`s oppressive regimes that seek terrible weapons. We face an ongoing threat of terror. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: If you ever want to search for the worst speeches given by a modern president, begin with the National Prayer Breakfast, the first of which was attended by President Eisenhower in 1953. President Obama, who is the most gifted writer and speaker in the history of the American presidency, today delivered the worst speech of his presidency. It was full of hollow pandering from start to finish, as politician speeches to religious groups always are, and he insists that the Islamic State is not Islamic. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: From a school in Pakistan to the streets of Paris, we have seen violence and terror perpetrated by those who profess to stand up for faith, their faith. Profess to stand up for Islam, but are in fact betraying it. We see ISIS, a brutal, vicious death cult, that in the name of religion, carries out unspeakable acts of barbarism, terrorizing religious minorities, like the Yazidis, subjecting women to rape as a weapon of war, and claiming the mantle of religious authority for such actions. The humanity has been grappling with this question throughout human history. And lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ. There`s wisdom in our Founders writing in those documents that helped found this nation the notion of freedom of religion, because they understood the need for humility. No God condones terror. No grievance justifies the taking of innocent lives, or the oppression of those who are weaker, or fewer in number. So, as people of faith, we are summoned to push back against those who try to distort our religion, any religion for their own nihilistic ends. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Joining me now is Zainab Salbi, founder of Women for Women International, Jerry Coyne, professor at the University of Chicago, author of "Faith Versus Fact: Why Science and Religion are Incompatible", and Asra Nomani, author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman`s Struggle for the Soul of Islam." I just wanted to get your reaction to what you heard the president say today. ZAINAB SALBI, WOMEN FOR WOMEN INTL.: I wouldn`t call it the worst speech at all. I would call it a measured one, a thoughtful one, and someone that knows what Islam is going through, an identity crisis, an historical moment of implosion within itself. And all religion has gone through this, and it is now Islam`s turn. There is a lot of work to do be done. But I would call it a wise speech, as a matter of fact. O`DONNELL: Asra, what was your reaction to it? ASRA NOMANI, JOURNALIST: It really breaks my heart to hear the words that President Obama said today. You know, with all due respect, I think that it`s President Obama that needs to get off the high horse and he needs to put his feet and plant them firmly on the ground and acknowledge that there is a very serious interpretation of Islam in the world that is wreaking havoc on all of us, and we have to take it on and be honest about what the problem is in our world today. O`DONNELL: Professor Coyne, your reaction? JERRY COYNE, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: I agree with the last speaker. Obama is slowly coming around to the realization that it isn`t just terrorism involved here, but it`s motivated by religion. He continues to say that faith does not justify the massacre of innocents, when, in fact, the Bible says exactly that in the Old Testament, and the Islamic faith, at least this particular Sunni sect says that. When he finally admits that this is a religiously motivated horror, then I`ll approve of what he says. O`DONNELL: I would like to let you listen to something he said at the United Nations in September, where he was not speaking to religious leaders. He said he struck a very different tone about this. Let`s listen to that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: First, the terrorist group known as ISIL must be degraded and ultimately destroyed. Second, it is time for the world, especially in Muslim communities, to explicitly, forcefully, and consistently reject the ideology of organizations like al Qaeda and ISIL. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Zainab, no line like that in today`s speech. That there`s a responsibility for a Muslim community to reject this kind of, we`ll call it new theology reversion to old theology, whatever we want to call it, he was suggesting today that, well, this kind of thing happens in all religions. SALBI: Well, I think, as a Muslim, I think what Islam is going through is an identity crisis indeed. A lot of people are confused about their religion within their religion. When you -- I just came from the Middle East last night, and as a matter of fact, when people say the common thing is, what is the religion, the one that we grew up with 40 years ago or the one they are telling us it is right now? So, there is a crisis within the religion, I think it`s imploding within itself. And I do think it has become more conservative and more violent than it has ever been in the last decades, at least. So there is a crisis in here. Is it a predestined crisis? Is that the new religion? No, it`s not. It`s a point of history we have to be outspoken about as Muslims, have dialogue about. That is not happening yet. So, I think there is an issue, but I don`t think Islam is a violent religion, nor do I think that any religion is violent religion. At the core of religion is about doing goodness and how we interpret it -- COYNE: Well -- SALBI: -- is something that we all can think about. O`DONNELL: What the president alluded to today is the fact that some religions have gone through violent phases. Catholicism was the most murderous force on the face of the earth for hundreds of years. SALBI: Yes. O`DONNELL: But that`s hundreds of years ago. That`s 800 years ago. And so, for the president to make a comparison to the Islamic State, he has to reach back 100 years in Catholicism and then tell Catholics and Christians today, don`t get on your high horse. And, Asra, in the process, the president seems to be saying that he knows what real Islam is, he knows that there is such a thing as real Islam, and that he can tell you -- I`ll ask Asra to respond to this, professor, we`ll come to you after that, that he can tell you what it is, and that is a frequent mistake that people who have not been very highly educated in religion make, thinking that there is an identifiable, real version of any religion. NOMANI: Well, that`s why I think that it`s actually an act of sitting on the high horse, when you try to pretend what we see in the world today isn`t real. O`DONNELL: Right. NOMANI: We`re just standing in a hall of mirrors. If I have bags under my eyes, it`s because I`ve spent the last 48 hours dissecting every second of the sad video that documented the murder of the Jordanian pilot. I will tell you how that video begins. It begin with (SPEAKING ARABIC) which means "in the name of Allah, the beneficent, the merciful." It then went to a clear and very obvious declaration that this was from the Islamic State. It was not some fancy acronym like ISIL or ISIS and all of this. It was clearly the Islamic State. And then, the video proceed to talk about the Crusades, which we had mentioned at the prayer breakfast today, to bring up every grievance against Israel, the Jews, and every other possible infraction that anybody has ever done against Muslims, so that we become a culture of wound collectors, and that is how we then act out with only violence. And then, it proceeded to talk about Koranic verses, from (SPEAKING ARABIC) which tells the believers to have courage to fight and to take courage in their fight. And then it proceeded to tell us that there is a Hadith, saying of the Prophet Muhammad and a fatwa that says we should participate in these just wars, even if they are against our own fellow Muslims. And so, to pretend that this isn`t a reality of Islam in the world today, and that there is a true Islam that is the reality of our world is to me just a dance that we`re playing to our peril. O`DONNELL: Professor Coyne, within every religion, there are arguments about what the proper tenants of a religion should be. Most Catholics, as you know, in the United States of America support abortion rights and support that as an individual choice made by women, whether they`d be Catholic or not. The pope says that is absolutely wrong, and that teaching is rejected worldwide by Catholics and it`s accepted worldwide by Catholics and there are many other arguments within Catholicism. You used to be ex-communicated if you got divorced in Catholicism. Now, Catholicism finds ways of fixing that for people. Religions move, they change, they have different sects, different dynamics. I would love to hear the president describe what true Judaism is. Is it orthodox Judaism or is it one of those temples where they have a female rabbi? This is just an amazing mistake that the president`s speechwriters and the president could make today, the notion that this president or anyone can specifically tell us what is real Islam or the real version of any other religion. We`re going to have a disagreement with two followers of Islam right here on this show about what is real Islam. COYNE: Yes, absolutely. And you`re absolutely right with this. There is no true version of Islam that you can put your finger on. If you want to be legalistic about it, you can say -- well, it`s -- the true religions is what is in the Scripture. And in that case, Christianity, even though you have to reach back to find it committing things like the Inquisition, even Christianity has an Old Testament that explicitly sanctions and approves of terrorism, of terrorism of innocents, of adultery, of rape, of genocide. How do Christians write that out as not being true Christianity when it`s in the Old Testament in black and white? The problem is -- SALBI: Can I just say -- COYNE: Now, let me finish here. The problem with saying that there is a true faith, and that true Islam has been hijacked by ISIS is not true. What`s happened with Christianity is it`s become tamer over the centuries because it was hijacked by the secular enlightenment values that have gotten rid of those horrible statements in the Old Testament. That`s what needs to happen with Islam. It needs to be hijacked by enlightenment values. In fact, ISIS has not hijacked Islam at all. O`DONNELL: OK. Hold it there, Professor. Zainab, what we can say about certain religions at certain times is, there`s a dominant version of it. There`s a dominant version of Catholicism, especially in certain countries where most people, 60 percent, 70 percent think the following should behave a certain way. And that`s what the struggle is now is different versions are trying to dominate others within Islam. SALBI: It is true, but I would not legitimize ISIS` point of view. And this is not because I`m a liberal Muslim coming here. O`DONNELL: No one here is saying that ISIS is the real Islam. SALBI: OK, good. O`DONNELL: But once you say it`s not the real Islam, you are then implying that you can identify there is a real one. SALBI: There is no way we can all tell what is the real Islam. It`s all about our interpretation. COYNE: Absolutely. O`DONNELL: Then, we all agree. SALBI: But there are waves that happen in history about religious revolution, and Islam is right now going through a crisis. I cannot legitimize ISIS, just because they quoted the Koran or the Hadith or whatever before the horrible execution, that does not make them real Muslims or does not make them Muslims actually. What they have done is -- (CROSSTALK) COYNE: Well, I disagree. O`DONNELL: We`re out of time. What it certainly doesn`t do is prove that they`re not Muslim, OK? And the president is somehow trying to twist it to that degree. SALBI: No, the president is actually trying to open a way to involve the religion and to have a discussion within the religion, because if we think of it as doomed, we cannot have a resolution of the discussion. And what is need the most right now is a liberal value that talks about religion within Islam. O`DONNELL: And that is where you and Asra agree. You`re both working toward within Islam. I wish I have more time for this tonight. Thank you all very much for joining me tonight. Zainab Salbi, Asra Nomani and Professor Coyne, thank you all. COYNE: Thank you. O`DONNELL: Coming up, what a Pentagon analysis of the mind of Vladimir Putin said about what might be behind his extreme control. And what happened when Seattle Seahawks coach Pete Carroll faced his team -- he had to do it, he had to face his team -- after making what might be the worst play called in the history of the Super Bowl. We`ll have more of Matt Lauer`s interview with coach Carroll and that reaction, coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: In tonight`s episode of Republicans doing the right thing, Republican senators have killed Senator Ted Cruz`s plan to block the confirmation of President Obama`s attorney general nominee, Loretta Lynch. Arizona Republican Senator Jeff Flake said, "The president ought to get his people as long as there`s no disqualifying substance there, and I don`t think there is with here." Coming up, the man charged with murdering the real American sniper, Chris Kyle. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you be surprised if I told you the Navy has credited you with over 160 kills? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you ever think that you might have seen things or done some things over there that you wish you hadn`t? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that`s not me, no. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s not you? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just protecting my guys. They were trying to kill our soldiers, and I`m willing to meet my Creator and answer for every shot that I took. The thing that haunts me are all the guys that I couldn`t save. You know, I`m willing and able to be there, but I`m not. I`m here, I quit. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you can walk down any hall in this hospital. We got plenty of soldiers that need saving. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uh-huh. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Want to take a walk? (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: One of the soldiers, who the real American sniper Chris Kyle tried to save, is now facing trial for the murder of Chris Kyle and Chris Kyle`s friend Chad Littlefield at a shooting range in Texas. Jury selection started today in Texas where 800 potential jurors have been called in the trial of 27-year-old Eddie Ray Routh, a former marine whose lawyers are arguing is now not guilty by reason of insanity. Potential jurors are filling out questionnaires this week with opening arguments planned for Wednesday. Defense attorneys have asked for the trial to be moved and postponed, arguing it will be impossible to find an impartial jury in the small Texas community. Chris Kyle`s book has sold 1.6 million copies and the movie "American Sniper" is the most watched movie of the year in America so far. Joining me now is MSNBC contributor and the first Iraq war veteran to serve in Congress, Patrick Murphy. He`s also a former military and federal lawyer. Patrick, you`re a former prosecutor. Take us through what you think the dimensions of this trial are. PATRICK MURPHY, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Sure. Well, first thing as you mentioned, Lawrence, you`re seeing this trial happen right now where you have 800 citizens from Texas, in Erath County, which is a rural county, about 40,000 people. They`re going to take these 800 and bring them down to about 12 jurors and two alternates. And that`s going to be until next week. So, Monday and Tuesday, they`re going to whittle those down to about 200 and have what`s called voir dire, and ask these individuals, you know, can they give an independent judgment, do they have any preconceived notions. They argue -- attorneys on both sides will argue, the defense will certain hi think that their client is not going to have a fair trial, because some of them, a lot of them will have seen that movie "American Sniper" or read that book that sold 1.6 million copies. O`DONNELL: And that, Patrick, that won`t necessarily be disqualifying. They indicated today -- MURPHY: Exactly. O`DONNELL: -- they will all be asked that, but that won`t in and of itself be disqualifying. They will be asked, can you put that aside, the movie, the book, and look at this evidence fairly. MURPHY: Right. And they will also be asked their stances on the mental insanity defense, can they -- will they keep an open mind towards that. That`s what the defense attorneys will really get at because that`s really the crux of their case and hoping that -- we all know Eddie Ray is going to go away, Lawrence, for a long time. It`s question of, is he going to go away for the rest of his life to prison or really to a mental institution? O`DONNELL: Patrick, let`s listen to what his wife said about this. Why she doesn`t think this is PTSD. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TAYA KYLE: It was a double homicide, and the people I know with PTSD are good people, and they live a good life. I feel like whatever you were before you went into war is what you`re going to be on the other side, with one -- with a major twist. You`re going to have moodiness, you`re going to have sleepless nights, you`re going to have a hard time, you`re going to suffer. But, yes, I don`t buy it, and I don`t think it`s appropriate, and I think it`s a very lame excuse for horrible behavior. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Patrick, your reaction, a lame excuse? MURPHY: There`s no doubt, Lawrence, we`ve had 2.6 million Americans that served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Many like Chris Kyle served multiple deployments. Like Eddie Ray, he had two. He had Iraq and then Haiti. About 40 percent will come back with some type of post-traumatic stress disorder or TBI, traumatic brain injury, and some people are just broken when they come back. As you know, Lawrence, there`s veterans that do great things when they come back, but there`s others that struggle so much. And I think this is a case from my reading of it, Eddie Ray in this case, clearly had PTSD, and it will be interesting to see how this trial plays out, whether he was mentally insane and that caused the murder of Chris Kyle. O`DONNELL: Patrick, does the prosecution thus far, have they offered any other motivation for these murders? MURPHY: No. I think they`re really going -- first, they`re going to go, they`ve put several motions, Lawrence, that they`re not going to be able to get a fair trial because of the pretrial publicity. The judge has shut does arguments down. They`ll probably make one more after the jury is there. But the crux of their argument is that he was mentally insane. So, we`ll see how that plays out. O`DONNELL: Patrick Murphy, thanks for joining us tonight. MURPHY: Thanks, Lawrence. O`DONNELL: Coming up, the latest case for increasing the inheritance tax. Rich kids on a plane. Paris Hilton`s brother is facing 20 years in jail for what he did on a plane. And still ahead, coach Pete Carroll tells Matt Lauer what happened when he faced the Seattle Seahawks players after sending into their huddle the worst call ever in a Super Bowl. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) O`DONNELL: We have a new poster boy for higher inheritance taxes. Conrad Hilton III, Paris Hilton`s younger brother and Hilton Hotel heiress, surrendered this week to FBI agents, an was charged with assaulting and intimidating flight attendance and interfering with flight crew members. The FBI says the 20-year-old went berserk onboard a 10-hour British Airways flight from London to Los Angeles in July. Court documents say he tried to smoke pot in the bathroom, tried to fight crew members and paced up and down the aisle yelling. The flight crew says Conrad Hilton told them, quote, "I could get you all fired in five minutes. I know your boss. My father will pay this out. He has done it before. Dad paid $300,000 last time. And I will F-ing own anyone on this flight; they are F-ing peasants." The pilot authorized a team of five flight attendants to subdue Hilton with restraints, so they could land the plane. When he woke up, Hilton screamed again, "I am going to f-ing kill you." (END VIDEO CLIP) If convicted, he faces up to 20 years in prison. Up next, Matt Lauer`s exclusive interview with Seattle Seahawks` coach, Pete Carroll. How is he sleeping at night. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) MATT LAUER, NBC HOST: You`ve heard the experts, not just average Joes, say, it was the worst call ever. PETE CARROLL, COACH, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: It was the worst result of a call ever. The call would have been a great one if he catch it. It would have been just fine and nobody would have thought twice about it. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: In the "Spotlight" tonight, the worst result of a call ever. That was Seattle Seahawks coach, Pete Carroll, reflecting on the -- (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) -- play call that cost his team the Super Bowl. Carroll spoke exclusively to Matt -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- Lauer about the fallout from the game, and what the Seahawk players had to say about the loss. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LAUER: Tell me a little bit about what it`s been like to be Pete Carroll over these last three days. CARROLL: Well, it`s been a -- it`s been a whirlwind. There`s a lot going on. I feel responsible for a lot of people right now, certainly from the family to the organization of players and the coaches and all that. But it extends well beyond that, you know, as you go out into our community and the area that follows. And there`s a lot of people that really care a lot about what we`re doing. And our game hit them really hard. And I -- LAUER: You`re answering a little bit like Pete Carroll, the football coach. And then, let me try it again, what`s it been like to be Pete Carroll, the human being, over these past three days. CARROLL: I`d started off with having to get right, about getting my mind right so that I could take on what I was going to have to do. And that was face everybody and give them some perspective so that we can move ahead. LAUER: Taking out the fact that it ended badly for you, you still feel you made exactly the right call? CARROLL: Well, no, this is the way I look at it. I made the call that comes out of the process, of the preparation and the practice. I think that we`re going to do exactly the right thing, or we won`t call the play. We won`t go with the concept. We won`t ask -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) -- our guys to execute it, so that I`d never make a call thinking it`s going to go bad. LAUER: So, this was properly planned. It just didn`t turn out well. CARROLL: We knew we`re going to throw the ball one time in the sequence somewhere, and so we did. And it just didn`t turn out right. LAUER: You can`t relive history. You can never win that Super Bowl again. That one`s gone. So, let`s talk about turning the corner and turning the page. (END VIDEO CLIP) You said something on the radio that caught my attention. You said -- and I`m paraphrasing here, coach -- you said, "My whole life has equipped me -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) -- to deal with this moment." Can you explain that to me. CARROLL: I`m a really optimistic, positive person that thinks that the next thing that`s going to come up is going to be a good thing. And it doesn`t really matter what situation I`m in. That`s just kind of the way that I`m wired. LAUER: Have you been able to sleep over the last three nights. CARROLL: Yes, I`m sleeping up some. You know, I`m doing OK. LAUER: Some. (LAUGHTER) CARROLL: I wake up and I can`t stop thinking about it, you know. But it`s the -- sleep part works because we`re so worn out after the six months of the season. You know, you can`t help but fall asleep but it`s the waking up, it`s getting back to sleep is the problem. LAUER: Have you allowed yourself to have that one moment lying in bed where the tears flowed, where -- you`re smiling at me but I mean it. Has there been that moment. CARROLL: Yes, that happened at that 4:05 mark on the -- you know, that -- LAUER: On Tuesday morning? CARROLL: Yes. That`s when I -- there was a break where I allowed -- you know, allowed of the rush of it to hit. LAUER: Were you alone at that point or with your family. CARROLL: I was just lying in bed with -- you know, just awake in the middle of the night, you know, 4:05 a.m., you know. And that`s what happened, you know. And that was my opportunity to go ahead and visit it. LAUER: So, you don`t think you`re the kind of guy who`s going to be, five years down the road, still thinking what could, should have been. CARROLL: No. Let me tell you this one. These don`t go away. These occurrences, they don`t leave. These occurrences have stayed with me over the years in a manner that they fuel me, you know. The one at S.C., after -- you know, third national championship opportunity, you know, 19 seconds left, fourth and seventh, those just don`t go away. I really don`t even want to lose those, you know. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) I don`t want to wash them out and ignore them. I just want them to be in a place that they`re going to help me be right. LAUER: If you allowed yourself -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- to listen to the noise out there, and what`s on television and Sports Radio, you could get down pretty quickly. CARROLL: But I don`t think so. I don`t think that`s the case. f LAUER: Tell me what. CARROLL: Because I know where it`s coming from. And I know that they`re doing the best they can to figure it out. They`re not going to affect the way I think. LAUER: You had team meeting yesterday, right. CARROLL: Yes. LAUER: You had all the players together and the coaches. What do you call it on Mondays? CARROLL: It`s Tell the Truth Monday. LAUER: Tell the Truth Monday. So, you stood up in front of that group of players -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) -- who had to still be in shock and a bit heartbroken. What was the truth you told them. (END VIDEO CLIP) CARROLL: I wanted to make sure that they went through the whole process of what happened -- LAUER: Went back to the play again, every fault. CARROLL: -- rethink everything and reminded them of how we had prepared and how we had -- how we had done things. So, they realized that whether or not you want -- even the players want to agree with the way we did it, know that this is the way we have practiced and prepared ourselves to execute in this moment. LAUER: Did they all agree. Did anyone stand up and raised their hand and say, "Coach," -- CARROLL: They could have, but they didn`t. Nobody did. I don`t think, at this point, everybody is on the same page about that sequence necessarily. But that`s OK. LAUER: You said on the radio, "We`re going to make this right." How do you make it right. CARROLL: By getting to the truth, by getting in there, talking about it, facing it up, everybody has cleared their minds. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) It`s when you finally gather and you`re read to take that next step, we`re going to go -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- places that we`re going to be extraordinary. LAUER: So, there`s a story of redemption that you`ve already begun to write? CARROLL: It`s well underway. (END VIDEOTAPE) O`DONNELL: How do you think Coach Carroll is handling it. We will ask a sports shrink next, how he thinks the coach is handling it. And, also, if you`re in Seattle, you might need some help from this shrink. It`s next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CARROLL: These don`t go away. These occurrences, they don`t leave. These occurrences have stayed with me over the years, in a manner that they fuel me. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Joining me now from Seattle is Huffington Post Correspondent Jordan Schultz. And, from Florida, sports psychologist, Harold Shinitzky. He is the author of the new book, -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) -- "Take Control of Your Anxiety." Doctor, how do you think -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- the coach is handling it. HAROLD SHINITZKY, SPORTS PSYCHOLOGIST: I am so impressed at his honesty, his ability to take responsibility. Obviously, there`s been an offensive coordinator who helped call the play. But, the reality is, like he said, it`s a process. You never have the perfect play. Things have to be executed. And in that situation, down in distance, they came up with a play which, if I`m not mistaken, Lawrence, you realize, one yard away from the end zone, 66 times it`s been passed, -- O`DONNELL: Yes. (LAUGHTER) SHINITZKY: -- zero interceptions. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Right. SHINITZKY: So, they were looking at that in a reality. And, unfortunately, the rub play didn`t work where the defensive pack didn`t get shoved back, but actually made a beeline. So, we should be celebrating the defense that actually looked at the way the -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- play was set up. And that was a remarkable defense. O`DONNELL: George Schultz, we invited you back tonight because we`re worried about you. And we have -- (LAUGHTER) -- a shrink here to help you. JORDAN SCHULTZ, HUFFINGTON POST CORRESPONDENT: You should be. O`DONNELL: Yes. You know, as a Seattle native and, you know, watching this happen to your team out there -- you know, we`re going to give you Dr. Shinitzky`s number, too, so you can have a private consultation with him because -- SCHULTZ: Please. I need a personal line and a couple of e-mails. O`DONNELL: How are you and the rest of Seattle processing Coach Carroll`s reaction to all this. You watched this Matt Lauer interview, you hear him talking about what he was thinking. You also hear him talking about how he`s handling it. It`s bothering his sleep. He had some -- he spilled some tears about it. I`m sure he`s not the only one in Seattle who lost sleep and some tears about it. SCHULTZ: Yes, no question about it, Lawrence. And I`m so happy to be back on. because Seattle really is the quietest I`ve ever seen it. (LAUGHTER) I grew up here for 20 years. I don`t remember a time -- O`DONNELL: And no one wants to talk about this up there, right, like it`s just -- SCHULTZ: No one. It`s like a -- it`s like a morgue in here. Nobody understands what happened. And I think that -- the one thing is with Pete Carroll, people would like to see him say, "Hey, we made a mistake." Now, there is a sense that the call went wrong. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) But playing the result is maybe what is bothering some Seattleite, some Seahawk fans that, you know, would actually like to see the coach say, "We made a mistake. It was the wrong play call." Obviously, if the call works, we`re celebrating it. But I still am not convinced that even if the play resulted in a touchdown, it was the right call. O`DONNELL: And, doctor, the -- what I was so impressed by, psychologically, in what he was just saying to Matt, -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- was, "Yes, this thing is never going to go away." And I think we all understand that part of it. But what moves him forward is being an optimist, that belief that he has that optimists have -- I don`t know where they get it -- but this belief that the next thing is going to be good, the next thing is going to be better. SHINITZKY: That`s a great attitude to have -- if you believe in yourself and the process, you`re able to look positively, optimistically live and learn. We always talk about it with our athletes and coaches, that you have to develop a short-term memory. So, you live and learn. You cannot dwell on the past because you can`t change it. And so, being able to take the situation, -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) -- realize there are no guarantees. All you can ever do is increase your probability of success, doing your best. O`DONNELL: Yes. And, Jordan, sports is filled with stuff that doesn`t work. (END VIDEO CLIP) You know, most basketball players, you know, most of their shots frequently miss. Certainly, most baseball players, most swings of the bat, they miss. They just plain miss. And they can`t, on the next pitch, be standing there, thinking about, you know, the pitch that they just swung at and missed. I mean -- SCHULTZ: Sure. O`DONNELL: -- this coach is in a much bigger version of that, especially since he doesn`t get another game next week. He`s got to live with this one, you know, -- SCHULTZ: Yes. O`DONNELL: -- for quite a while. It`s a different rhythm now when it happens literally in the final minute of the final game of the year. SCHULTZ: Exactly, Lawrence. And it was obviously the highest-rated game ever. You throw in all the pressure. And, really, now, you have the whole off-season to lead 53 men through a situation where they had never been through and really hope they never would have to experience. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) I think, the one thing though about Pete Carroll, the success that he`s had at the college level and, now, at the NFL level, is he`s a leader and the players love playing for him. He`s obviously not the most well-liked guy across the NFL in terms of head coaches, but he`s the guy that the players all swear by because he lets them be them. And, I think, in that situation, he trusted Russell Wilson. And I listened to the mic`d-up version of the game and Russell Wilson kept saying, "Trust me, trust me." So, there is a connection there. And, I think, Pete Carroll, if anybody is apt to be able to overcome this and get a group of guys together moving forward, it would be him. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: All right. Now, let`s listen to his response to Matt Lauer`s big question, might be the biggest question of all -- "Would you do it again." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LAUER: Take the outcome out of it because nothing you can do but that you`d make the same call if the situation were the same today. (LAUGHTER) CARROLL: We can change the rhythm of those calls. One of the calls was going to be a pass, you know, to stop the clock. A timeout would stop one, an incomplete pass. The game is over if you win, if you score. So, that happened to be that one. Going back again, I might do it differently. I`m not going to tell my opponents which way I`m going to do it. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Doctor, we`ve seen coaches who, under that kind of stress, end up with cardiac problems, end up with all, so they internalize it. SHINITZKY: Yes. O`DONNELL: What I`m hearing from him is he seems to be processing this about as healthfully as you can. SHINITZKY: Absolutely. He has the capacity to be able to look at the situation, realize based on going over film, getting all the scouting reports, what they could do in this moment to increase the probability of success. And, in his mind, this decision was a realistic and positive one. It didn`t work out. But just because they lost in the Super Bowl -- as they say, you know, second place isn`t first loser, you know, the ability to be able to harness this for the next year. O`DONNELL: Now, Jordan, Coach Carroll has, I think, pulled out of this remarkably well. We`re still worried about you. And I am -- (LAUGHTER) -- going to send you the full -- the full Matt Lauer interview because I want you to memorize the coach`s responses to this, OK, -- SCHULTZ: I have. O`DONNELL: -- so you can internalize them because it`ll help you, I think, get through tomorrow and the time it will take to get another Super Bowl win in Seattle. SCHULTZ: Thank you. I appreciate it, Lawrence. I will point to the fact that Pete Carroll said, "If we score, it`s over." My question to that would be -- exactly, so run the ball and don`t worry about the clock. But that is a conversation I`ll probably be having the rest of my life with myself. O`DONNELL: Jordan Schultz and Dr. Harold Shinitzky, thank you both very much for joining me tonight. SCHULTZ: Thank you. SHINITZKY: Thanks, thanks. O`DONNELL: We`ll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) At age 88, Harper Lee, the author of "To Kill a Mockingbird," is publishing her second novel entitled "Go Set a Watchman." Today, Harper Lee`s attorney said that Harper Lee is delighted by the enthusiastic public response to the publication of her second book. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) "She is alive and kicking and happy as hell with the reactions of `Watchman.`" Gregory Peck won an Oscar for his portrayal of Atticus Finch in the film version of "To Kill a Mockingbird," which Harper Lee co-wrote with Horton Foote. Gregory Peck`s daughter, Cecilia, met Harper Lee on the set of "To Kill a Mockingbird" and visited with Harper Lee recently in Alabama. CECILIA PECK, DAUGHTER OF GREGORY PECK: Been friends with Harper since I was born or since I was two. When I went to college, she would, you know, always call me up and ask me what courses I was taking. You know, I wanted to study 20th Century American Literature and she would say, "You`ve got to study the classics." And I would say, "But," you know, "why, I`m interested in Faulkner and Eudora Welty." And she`d say, "You can`t understand them if you haven`t read Trollope and Chalsa (ph), child." So, you know, she was always part of my life. You know, Harper is such a strong name for a girl. And when we found out we were having a boy, we had a discussion about whether Harper would be a good name for a boy. But we did give it to our son, Harper. I`m so glad he`s carrying that name. We took him and his sister, Ondin (ph), to Monroeville for spring break last year. My husband, Daniel, and I took a drive through the south with the children, and we spent two days with Harper in Monroeville and, you know, had the best time. She`s so -- she`s just the most interesting person. She`s just like an encyclopedia about Alabama and the history of the south, and interested in politics and sports and fishing and loves to laugh. You know, she`s such a private person. She`s like a private national treasure. And I`m blessed enough to get to have this relationship with her. Everybody always wondered, "Is there another book?" And Harper didn`t welcome all of the attention that came along with "To Kill a Mockingbird," and it made her become very private for her whole life. But I just think that she has decided that the world wants to know what became of Scout. And I`m -- you know, I feel so lucky that we`re getting another book from one of our greatest American writers. (END VIDEO CLIP) O`DONNELL: Coming up, an army of shrinks at the Pentagon have been trying to figure out Vladimir Putin. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) "USA Today" has revealed a 2008 Pentagon think tank report, which -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) -- theorizes that Russian President Vladimir Putin has Asperger`s syndrome, an autistic disorder, which affects all of his decisions. The report states that -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- researchers, of course, cannot prove their theory without scanning Putin`s brain. The Pentagon said yesterday that the research never reached the Secretary of Defense. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) The report also notes Putin`s primary form of compensation is extreme control, which is reflected in his decision style and how he governs. Joining me now is Adrian Karatnycky, a Russian and senior fellow at the Atlantic Council -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- and Dr. Justin Frank, Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the George Washington University Medical Center. Dr. Frank, of course, the CIA and other intelligence agencies around the world have tried to do psychological profiles of especially their opponents around the world. What do you make of this one. DR. JUSTIN FRANK, CLINICAL PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Well, this is not at all at the same level as what the CIA did. The CIA hired psychiatrists and psychoanalysts, who have done extensive research into these people, not just watching them on videotape and dealing with their own fantasies about what different body movements mean. I was sort of surprised, really, that the Pentagon -- that D.O.D. would pay this kind of money. The CIA is doing a really important job. It`s not always accurate but they have made an effort. And that`s why I wrote my two books because I felt it was important to do that in this -- in our country, and do an analysis of Obama and Bush, both of which I`ve done that were very serious, which -- you know, it`s a very difficult situation when it`s important to know the psychology of who our leaders are. But this thing about Putin seems sort of silly in a way, especially because Asperger`s people are not interested in being -- riding around on a horse bareback-- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) -- or are interested in doing all of the shenanigans that he does, stealing a Super Bowl ring from -- (LAUGHTER) -- the owner of the Patriots and then saying, "I could kill someone with this ring." You know, I mean, those are -- he`s a guy who`s not an Asperger`s guy. O`DONNELL: Adrian Karatnycky, can you explain him stealing Super Bowl rings. (LAUGHTER) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ADRIAN KARATNYCKY, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: No, I can`t. I think -- ownership. I think he has -- likely feels he`s entitled. I think, you know, the power he`s been granted -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- I think he views the Russian inheritance as kind of an imperial and grand terms of all these -- Stalin is a big model for him -- a powerful, ruthless leader, Peter the Great, I mean, he does have a sort of a sense of -- O`DONNELL: So, you would -- you would look more toward the historic social psychology of Russia -- FRANK: I would look more -- well, more towards a narrower period. I mean, I think that what Putin is is more KGB than Asperger`s. And I think that what there is going on in Russia is that there is a cult of toughness among males, very articulated. He`s trying to play to those tropes with these various scenes of activity. You`re supposed to be kind of cold, hard-hitting. You know, Charles Bronson is alive and well. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) "Death Wish" is alive and well in Russian movies right now. It is sort of the major trope by which Russian young men are growing up, and it`s to be tough. And I think their society is sort of been preparing -- Putin has been preparing them for this more aggressive type of -- type of behavior. And I would see that as a more important -- the cultural trends that are occurring in Russia, than this psychological -- tinkering with the psychology. O`DONNELL: How does that sound, Dr. Frank -- more cultural than anything else. FRANK: Well, it`s -- I mean, first of all, the people who are tinkering with the psychology are really tinkerers. (END VIDEO CLIP) Secondly, the cultural stuff is very interesting. But it doesn`t really address this particular person, which I had assumed was the point of the Pentagon report, that they were trying to address him. It`s very easy to generalize about Russian culture and talk about this and that. But this is a particular person who, I agree, that he`s been -- he was a spy and a KGB person, and there are people who have Asperger`s who are drawn to the world of espionage. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) This is the 50th anniversary of "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold," a publication of that book by John le Carre. Very important. And you can see a lot of character studies on the different people who are -- (END VIDEO CLIP) -- cold-blooded, the way Putin seems to be at times. But I don`t know what else to say. O`DONNELL: All right, we could leave it there, Justin Frank, because we`ve run out of time. Dr. Justin Frank and Adrian Karatnycky, thank you both very much for joining me tonight. Chris Hayes is up next. END