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Transcript: The Beat with Ari Melber, 9/9/22

Guests: Mark Leibovich, Ibram X. Kendi, Joanna Coles


Trump and DOJ facing midnight deadline for special master candidates, as former Trump lawyer Ty Cobb predicting indictment for Trump. President Biden said MAGA Republicans destroying America, as new polling showed 58 percent seeing them as threat to democracy. Arizona has a law it`s pushing that would make it illegal to go within eight feet of police officers to record what they`re doing on the job. King Charles III`s speech begins new era for Britain.


NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Thank you so much for letting us into your homes during what was really truly an extraordinary week of news. We`re so grateful. THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER starts right now.

Hi, Ari.

ARI MELBER, MSNBC ANCHOR: Hi, Nicolle. Thank you very much. Welcome to THE BEAT.

We begin our program tonight with the ongoing scandal that has really engulfed Donald Trump`s post presidency in a way that few would have predicted even two or three months ago. An inflection point is approaching.

We know that right now because the Justice Department and Trump together face this joint deadline, midnight tonight, to file their candidates for the procedural motion that Trump did win, which mandates some extra review by this so-called special master. That`s a type of judicially appointed person to do the review and they`ve got to get the candidates in. So this person will review the documents that were seized.

Now, the DOJ is also at the same time appealing parts of this ruling saying that there`s a national security risk to do this the way Trump wants and that these are stolen documents that was already partially signed off on by the magistrate to get the warrant so there`s no reason that Donald Trump would have great legal arguments to do anything about reviewing them let alone getting them back.

So that will be a step. I say procedural because it`s not the most important part of this case. And we always try to keep it real with you. I`m not going to play it up as a bigger deal to make it sound urgent, as we go into the weekend, although clearly both sides care a lot about it. Meanwhile, you have a new revelation from this case. More classified documents that the DOJ says Trump stole might still be outstanding. That is to say missing. You see the headline there. The records could be tied to the alleged 48 empty folders that were recovered at Mar-a-Lago.

We don`t know why they were empty or if somebody just went to Staples and had a bunch of extra folders. But this is the kind of stuff that the investigation is digging into. All of this could be slowed down depending on how the special master thing happens, and meanwhile Donald Trump has been of course attacking the feds and trying to really do something that you have to remember law and order Republicans have spent their entire adult lives and careers saying is a bad thing, making wild, false accusations about the FBI.

This is a, and I say this literally, O.J. style Trump move. Yes, I`m comparing him and his legal strategy to O.J. Simpson for good reason. Because Trump is, without any evidence, wantonly accusing others of being the criminals, without any regard to his own culpability saying, quote, "They`ve been leaking, lying and planting fake evidence." It is also by the way potentially defamation to accuse people of crimes like fake evidence planting if you have no evidence.

All of this comes as the FBI is on high alert for violence that could be linked to Trump sympathizers. And then you have someone that we used to report on a lot about during the Mueller probe. You may remember I played audio from him when we interviewed him. Ty Cobb did a lot of criminal defense work for Trump. That`s where he`s coming from on the perspective spectrum.

He says, though, as a matter of law and facts based on what he can see in public, he thinks the Justice Department is close to indicting Trump and that this probe, based on what we are seeing in public, which is never the whole thing when it`s an open grand jury probe, and there`s stuff we don`t know, he says the whole thing could be even larger than people realize.


TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: In my own view, it is about the bigger picture, the January 6th issues, the fake electors, to try to hold on, cling to the presidency in a desperate fashion. The search warrant is unusually large.

MELBER: And broad.

COBB: I mean, it`s very, very comprehensive in terms of the types of documents that the government could take.


MELBER: A former Trump lawyer weighing in. And we turn to two experts, a former federal prosecutor and U.S. attorney, Joyce Vance, and David Priess, a CIA officer who`s personally briefed the president. He`s the author of "The President`s Book of Secrets."

Welcome to you both. Joyce, I deliberately emphasize that as much as there is news to track about the procedural motion and the special master standoff, the bigger story might be what lurks all behind it and Ty Cobb just alluded to it. What do you think of his analysis of how broad this probe may be?

JOYCE VANCE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I`m not certain that I agree with Mr. Cobb`s assessment of the search warrant. He views it as being very broad and authorizing the government to take lots of documents. I think that this is a pretty standard sort of a search warrant when, after all, one of your criminal bases for the search warrant is the Espionage Act.


This is DOJ going out and having the authority to seize any evidence or fruits of crime. That`s the standard language that`s used. And when you`re talking about documents and trying to prove who was in possession of them, it`s pretty routine to have the ability to take other items that are stored with the documents or that are mingled because you can use that to prove identity.

But to Cobb`s larger point that Trump has committed greater sins than this, I think something that`s getting a little bit lost as we talk about the procedure is that the reality here is a former president has taken classified documents, including some that are alleged to be extremely serious.

And rather than letting Trump distract, which is something that he`s want to do when he`s in trouble, it`s important for the public to view everything that`s going on here and the importance of this investigation in terms of this incredible context, of a president who did something that literally no other president or government employee would get away with without everyone, Republican and Democrat, bursting out into outrage over.

MELBER: Yes. Yes, and I appreciate your nuance there about how you analyzed the warrant. Take a listen to something else that former Trump lawyer, Mueller defense lawyer for Trump in that era, what Ty Cobb said.


COBB: I think the president is in serious legal water, not so much because of the search, but because of the obstructive activity he took in connection with the January 6th proceeding. I think the -- and the attempts to interfere in the election count in Georgia, Arizona, Pennsylvania, and perhaps Michigan.

MAJOR GARRETT, CBS NEWS: What do you think the possibilities are of an indictment of former President Trump?

COBB: I think they`re very high.


MELBER: That goes much broader than the claims in the specific national security case to the other things that are also under investigation. Your response, Joyce.

VANCE: The evidence in all of these cases is very serious. Whether we`re talking about Fani Willis in the Georgia obstruction case or the DOJ grand jury about January 6th. So look, the reality is, we don`t know. And the reason that it`s easy for us to look at the evidence that we see and conclude that Trump is at great risk, and he probably is. But what we don`t see is whether or not there`s evidence that`s exculpatory.

Evidence that could help the defendant prevent the government from proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The government has to assess all of that before it makes decisions about whether to indict.

MELBER: Right. And I think you make a very fair point, Joyce, and David can speak to this as well, which is what comes out in public is a combo of what breaks or leaks, what participants do. Donald Trump chose to publicize his own search, David, just as Roger Stone released his own footage of his own house raid. Not everybody plays it that way. And then the press, which is going to look at these things and see what the big, bad breaking news is.

And so, David, to the exculpatory point, it may very well be, for example, that Donald Trump hypothetically could have a fact pattern where other people move stuff around and he wasn`t in the know and it doesn`t turn out as badly for him with the docs. Having said that, I`m curious of your view of all of this given that some of the docs, some of the reporting suggest he was hands on.

DAVID PRIESS, AUTHOR, "THE PRESIDENT`S BOOK OF SECRETS": Well, you`re exactly right. None of the original documents that we`ve seen in the redacted affidavit show that it is only the former president or even necessarily including the former president. We`re all assuming that. And we do have some good reason to think that. Among it are these materials that some people think should not have been collected.

But if you have other documents interspersed with classified material, and you have passports, which are relatively recent and you have articles of clothing, that doesn`t necessarily show you exactly what was happening there and that the president touched them, but it can speak to the fact that things that the president would have been handling are next to these classified documents.

It gives you some evidence that there is some timeliness to the fact that the president himself at his desk, let`s say, was involved with these materials. But we don`t know. It certainly looks as if at least one of the attorneys around the former president has some explaining to do in terms of some declarations she made, but it`s unclear exactly who the ultimate target of that probe is.

To Ty Cobb`s larger point, however, and I`ll agree with Joyce as I usually do on these matters here, these are some serious charges. I don`t understand Ty Cobb`s argument that they are linked. I have seen no evidence, no argumentation, no logic by which the January 6th investigation is linked in any way to the Mar-a-Lago documents probe.

If it is, that would be a pretty big stretch given that the three statutes that were cited for the search did not appear to be ones that would be related directly to the January 6th probe. But as you mentioned, there`s a lot we still don`t know.


MELBER: Right. No, and I wonder whether Mr. Cobb was partly speaking as a lawyer analyzing the material and then partly speaking as a pundit and sort of saying, gosh, there`s a lot of heat on the guy, which there is. And sometimes that can accrue in a way that has atmospheric impact. It might affect aides, it might affect cooperation. But as you both know and we take great care to be precise about, when a warrant lists statutes, that`s a real thing.

It didn`t list anything in both clarity and fairness to the former president, the warrant in the Florida search didn`t list any statutes related to what we understand to be the separate grand jury probe regarding the attempted coup.

Joyce, that`s a lot of law. Now I`m going to get back to God. As we say around here, on God, when we talk about things that are very true. You know Steve Bannon who`s got his own trial going -- have you ever known him to be a super spiritual person? I`ll say I haven`t.

VANCE: Have not seen a lot of God going on there.

MELBER: OK. OK. So that`s my introduction to more of a legal question. Mr. Bannon has got multiple cases, convicted in the January 6th defiance case, charged now yesterday in New York over defrauding MAGA donors. He`s speaking out. Here`s what he said, Joyce.


STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE STRATEGIST: Yesterday was one of the best days of my life. It was a very powerful, spiritual day for me. It was -- a lot of things were, you know, came into high clarity. I was totally in the zone, as you say in sports, the entire time. And, you know, they`re not going shut me up.


MELBER: Joyce, your thoughts.

VANCE: I`ve heard a lot of defendants talk tough at the outset of a case when they`re newly indicted. And then as the realities of the evidence and the strength of the government`s case and the amount of time that they`re facing settle in, the talk becomes a little bit less tough. So, you know, maybe Bannon is comfortable with doing 30 days in D.C. on obstruction charges. Here he`s looking at five to 15 if he`s convicted and that may really alter his calculus, you know, saying things like they`ll have to kill me. He may decide that it`s worth cooperating if he has any information that could be of value to prosecutors.

MELBER: David?

PRIESS: Yes, to me it`s funny that he talks about a spiritual moment. He doesn`t say it was a positive spiritual moment, right? He said it was a very -- a moment of clarity. Well, it could be clarity that he was facing some serious charges that we have to remember, he`s not going to get a get out of jail free card from a president on this. State charges. He`s not going to be pardoned for this if there is ultimately a conviction.

I don`t know what`s going through his head on this. Clearly he`s been in the mode for many years of grandstanding, of putting on a show, of talking big. But these are some serious charges. And based on what we`ve seen, they have a high likelihood of reaching a conviction and he probably shouldn`t be so cavalier about it.

MELBER: Yes. Understood. Some nuance from both of you on more than one case. I wish you both a good weekend as well here on a Friday night. Joyce Vance and David Priess, our thanks.

We have a lot coming up, the new King Charles addressing the U.K. for the first time, and a very special guest here that I`m thrilled to have back on the program. But coming up, Democrats pouncing on what they call a MAGA rift in the GOP. We`re back with our shortest break. I`ll see you again in 60 seconds.


MELBER: We are here in the first week since Labor Day, which is the official start of the midterm campaigns. And I could tell you we talk a lot about why pundits in the beltway won`t give you a lot of good information about the future because humans can`t predict the future.

Three or six months ago nobody could predict that the Democrats would be sounding so darn right optimistic. The president out on the road. He`s leaning into the midterms. He`s become the face for the Democrats which is not what was expected six months ago because his polling has been, well, not all that impressive all the time.


Here he was at the DNC summer meeting with this aggressive tone and playing up on offense what Democrats say is a double win. The policy need to defend democracy and the political benefit they see in reminding everyone that MAGA semi-fascism is on the ballot in November.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Folks, you can`t be pro- insurrection and pro-democracy. Not a joke. I`m being deadly earnest now. Those who love this country, Democrats, independents and mainstream Republicans, have to be stronger, and more determined, and more committed to saving American democracy than the MAGA Republicans are to literally destroying America. You just have to vote.


MELBER: And that`s the message from President Biden. A new Reuters poll out this week says 58 percent of Americans see this MAGA GOP as a threat to democracy, which includes a quarter of Republicans. That is a fascinating piece of data. And to be clear, we always try to be as precise as possible, that doesn`t mean a quarter of all Republicans are going to bolt the party. If that were the case the midterms wouldn`t even be close.

But it speaks to a tension that can be tapered over sometimes by the right- wing message machine. There are people who might sympathize with part of the Republican message, might have plenty of beef with Joe Biden. But they are now actively concerned that some of the folks on their side don`t just want to do the policies that they might agree on but wanting to end American democracy for real.

Biden also calling out Republicans for trying to take credit for the popular things that he says Americans like which are helping the Democrats and which Republicans fought to stop.


BIDEN: There are a lot more Republicans taking credit for that bill than actually voted for it. I see them out there. And now we`re going to build this new bridge here. We`re all for it. And by the way, this new road, and we`re going to have an internet that`s going to be all the way -- I love them, man. They ain`t got no shame.


MELBER: Did you know Biden does impressions? I guess sometimes. The point, though, is policy, that there are landmark bills that were discussed, debated, fought over and passed. And it`s perfectly fine to say that after the pandemic you oppose any government investment in, say, infrastructure or roads. But we know that most Americans actually support that. That`s why Donald Trump had multiple infrastructure weeks but never passed, well, what Biden got done.

And then you have some conservatives concerned that Donald Trump`s seemingly never-ending cascade of legal problems, some of which of his own making, he was warned repeatedly just give the documents back and that would go away. We know he was told that. He didn`t do it. And they are worried it`s going to affect the midterms as well.


KARL ROVE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: We`re now, you know, just shy of a month of talking about this issue. And if you`re a Democrat, you love it. This is a situation that`s largely of his own creation. He should not have taken those documents. But now that we`re in this kerfuffle over what have they gotten back and how were they handled, it is better for him not to be talking about it. People are not going to vote Republican in order to affirm President Trump`s view of what those documents were.


MELBER: Two-part fact check. One, fact check, true. As I was just laying out, Trump put himself in the top secret document mess. Karl Rove is a long-time Republican and Bush person and he`s telling the truth there. Fact check two, Rove calls it a kerfuffle. That might be minimizing it a little bit.

I can tell you, if you are a regular citizen, let alone a former president, you don`t see FBI agents coming into your home, seizing documents over kerfuffles, although it can be a fun word to say. Kerfuffle.

Now, let`s look at a nonpartisan analyst here. This is not left or right. Not Dem or Republican. The Cook Political report checks this stuff out, and they stay 43 percent of voters somewhat disapprove of Biden, are now still trending Democrat in November. So let those facts sink in. The nonpartisan experts who track this, they`re not saying Biden is super popular. Certainly not as popular as Obama in the peak of his first term. They`re not saying he`s perfect.

They`re just saying that a lot of things are happening that are pushing more and more voters towards the Democratic side in this home stretch post Labor Day November. We`re going to break it down with a special guest right after this.



MELBER: We are joined now a staff writer for "The Atlantic" Mark Leibovich, the author of the book "Thank You for Your Servitude: Donald Trump`s Washington and the Price of Submission."

Happy Friday. Welcome back.


MELBER: Good to have you. I went through the numbers. We all know in politics people get very touchy but we try to really focus on evidence on this particular program. And the evidence is Joe Biden has not been super popular over these first two difficult years of his term. The evidence is there`s a lot of concern in the country about what`s going on, where we`re headed, rising prices, all that talk about normalcy for most working people has not given way to normalcy.


And yet you have this other evidence that it`s not a gangbusters path for the Republicans right now. I`m curious where you come down, what you see happening?

LEIBOVICH: Well, I mean, first of all, I mean, Joe Biden had a good first, let`s say, six months of his presidency. He was quite popular. Things were going pretty well. Afghanistan obviously threw him into a tailspin that he didn`t really recover from for many months, but he`s had a really good summer, I mean, legislatively. But also in the mechanics of politics, you have the Dobbs decision obviously.

Donald Trump has had a terrible summer. I mean, this is sort of an object lesson in, you know, if you don`t want to talk about inflation, if you don`t want to talk about crime, if you don`t want to talk about the border, what`s Donald Trump going to give us this week? Between the January 6th Commission and now the Mar-a-Lago search and everything that`s come out of it. It not only has kept Trump in the news, which is not a place that most Republicans want to be in, and talking about him, it`s made a lot of the people running in his name, like Dr. Oz or even like Marco Rubio look like complete idiots because they have to sort of inhabit the reality distortion field about whether they voted -- would have voted to certify his election in 2021 or, you know, Rubio says stuff that he clearly knows better than to say about the Mar-a-Lago search.

So, I mean, there`s just a lot of trickle-down idiocy that manages to make Joe Biden and Democrats look much better in these key weeks leading up to the election.

MELBER: You must be a published author because trickle-down idiocy is an amazing phrase.

LEIBOVICH: Thank you.

MELBER: Let me jam with you on it because what`s also trickling in --

LEIBOVICH: Jam it in.

MELBER: It`s Friday. What`s also trickling in is the structure of this MAGA Republican Party is that Donald Trump gets drunk and all the other Republican candidates get a hangover.


MELBER: I mean, they`re not enjoying the party. They don`t get to do the things he`s doing. But boy, do they live in a long hangover. The hangover on the documents scandal matters. I`m not making light of it when I reach to be the imperfect, you know, blogger version of your author precision and words.

LEIBOVICH: Right. Published author.

MELBER: But it seems that -- yes. It seems they`re paying for someone else`s party. What do you think?

LEIBOVICH: I think so. I would quibble a little bit with the analogy and here`s why. First of all, Donald Trump doesn`t drink so we should say that, you know, for the record.

MELBER: That`s why it`s an analogy. I didn`t say he was drinking.

LEIBOVICH: It is an analogy. But it`s true. It is not a perfect analogy. However, Donald Trump is making Democrats -- they`re not necessarily suffering a hangover. If they lose the election or if they underperform, they will suffer the hangover. They actually are acting drunk, too. So here`s a good example. So Dr. Oz this week, he`s being endorsed by Pat Toomey, the outgoing incumbent Republican. Should be a pretty easy layout event for him.

He is asked a question, would you vote to certify Joe Biden`s election? Now before the last election, this is never a question anyone would have ever asked him, right? And now it is a fraught question. Not only it`s a question that gets asked, it is a fraught question and the answer becomes problematic because Dr. Oz basically answers, sure, because that`s what we do. I mean, he answered that the sky is blue, OK? The sky is blue.

And now there is going to be a price he pays with the MAGA Republicans who expect fealty to Donald Trump and part of that fealty is saying, oh, no, I definitely would have voted not to certify the election because, you know, this election was stolen, and so all of a sudden Dr. Oz who would know better would have had to tell that lie. He chose not to. But either way, it`s going to hurt him in the election, so he acts drunk.

MELBER: Well, I appreciate your sober analysis, if I may.

LEIBOVICH: Very sober, yes.

MELBER: Final question here as we`re under a minute is there was a myth, a myth or what in D.C. they sometimes call a narrative that the Republican Party would get past Trump when he was out of office. That clearly hasn`t happened. And when you look at that data, that one out of four Republicans do think there`s a real threat to democracy here and they don`t like it, what does that tell you? Because they might still want the lower taxes, they might have beef with Biden as I mentioned, but boy, are they actually concerned that this is not some weird offshoot dramatization of Trump.

You saw the insurrection and you see a party that is organizing itself around a, quote-unquote, "semi-fascist apartheid plan."

LEIBOVICH: And they all know better. I mean, this is -- I mean, it`s self- serving but I wrote a whole book about this. But they know better and they chose this. You know, there`s a tendency to talk about Trump as if he has been this terrible burden imposed on the Republican Party. No. They have chosen this over and over again. Between the election and after January 6th they could have taken the off-ramp.

You know, would there have been hell to pay would Trump have gone away? No, it would have been awkward. It could have, you know, wreaked havoc on them for a cycle or two but ultimately they could have talked about what they believe in, they could have been a party again, they could have saved the party, could have saved conservatism as we know it.

Now they`re in this ongoing bind. And look, I mean, they have chosen this path, and they are on it and they will pay the price.

MELBER: There you have it. Mark Leibovich, thank you and have a good weekend.

LEIBOVICH: All right. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it.

MELBER: Absolutely, sir.

Coming up, we have an update on King Charles and his first address. Also an important story as we look at the way that police brutality has been caught on tape as a method of accountability. There are states going in the other direction trying these so-called Camera Bans. It`s an important story. I`m going to get into it with you next.



MELBER: Turning to a very important story that you need to know about and it is about your safety, public safety, and constitutional rights. Arizona has a law it`s pushing that would take away what has become in the cell phone era, a fundamental tool for police oversight, a new law making it illegal to go within eight feet of police officers to record what they`re doing on the -- on the job.

It can carry a misdemeanor. It goes into effect this month. ACLU is already filing a lawsuit alleging it`s unconstitutional. The state has a Republican attorney general who says they don`t even want to defend it. We know from history that video evidence is one of the only ways that we`ve seen police accountability even for terrible incidents where there was evidence of brutality, abuse, beatings or death because even eyewitnesses, often from over policed minority communities, were not taken seriously by the system.

Now, much of this goes back to a time when there were not readily accessible cell phone videos, but someone did have the more expensive camcorder at the time capturing one of the still images you see here from the video of Rodney King brutally beaten by L.A. detectives and officers. There was an amateur videographer named George Holliday who had a Sony camera at the time.


GEORGE HOLLIDAY, AMATEUR VIDEOGRAPHER: I ran to the balcony and grabbed the camera on the way and started filming.

LESTER HOLT, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: You didn`t really know what you were filming other than some sort of police activity.

HOLLIDAY: Yes, yes. And when I got out onto the balcony, they were already hitting him.


MELBER: That was a video that shocked the nation and led to two different cases for those officers. And in the cell phone era, everyone can be like that videographer. When you saw Jacob Blake shot in Wisconsin, that`s a steal from the video. He was a 29-year-old father. He was not seen holding a weapon or posing a danger. Indeed, he was retreating when he was shot in the back seven times.

The video of that which we`re showing, of course, just these stills from was a neighbor`s cell phone video. It wasn`t from police or government video. Or of course, George Floyd. That murder is only treated as a murder because of the cell phone video that was taken by a teenager, technically a minor, a 17-year-old named Darnella Frazier. She was with her cousin. She saw police on the scene. She thought to act with her video.

No one has seriously alleged that she posed a risk that day, that she was violent. All she did was record facts that ultimately really led to a national reckoning and, I can tell you, murder trials that would never have otherwise happened. We know that because most years there are zero murder trials of officers regardless of what is alleged and witness testimony. She ultimately testified in that murder trial for Chauvin.


DARNELLA FRAZIER, TOOK THE VIDEO OF GEORGE FLOYD: He was terrified. He was suffering. This was a cry for help. When I look at George Floyd, I look at -- I look at my dad. I look at my brothers. I look at my cousins, my uncles because they are all black.


MELBER: For this special discussion, we`re joined by Dr. Ibram X. Kendi, the Founding Director of the Center for Anti-Racist Research at Boston University. His new book is Magnolia Flowers. Thanks for being here.


MELBER: Should people be able to record police officers while they are on the job in public?

KENDI: Well, so you mentioned Darnella Frazier`s video and it caused me to remember that the first police account for George Floyd`s death stated man dies after medical incident during police encounter. And so, that would have been the story of George Floyd if not for that cell phone video. And so, I think that certainly people should have their First Amendment ability to document police violence. And police are still killing about 1000 Americans per year.

MELBER: Right. And if somebody acts in a manner that`s unlawful or dangerous, holding a phone or having a video going does not cancel that out. They will be dealt with and we`ve seen sometimes how police enforcement works. I say that to introduce a statement by the former police officer and current mayor of New York who happens to be in the Democratic Party. I don`t care what party he`s in. But it is a part of the wing of the Democratic Party that still is very reflexively defensive of police to the point that you get a statement like you`re about to hear that conflates accurate recording with, I guess, violence. Take a listen.



ERIC ADAMS, MAYOR, NEW YORK CITY: I`m not going to put these men and women on the front line and have someone put a phone in their face while they taking action. Stop being on top of my police officers while they`re carrying out their jobs. That is not acceptable and it won`t be tolerated. That is a very dangerous environment you are creating.


MELBER: Your response.

KENDI: So, the mayor states to stop being on top of his police officers while they`re doing their job. The fact that matter is they too often lied when they were doing their job. They lie -- police officers have lied when they brutalized people, when they kill people. And it was only cellphone videos and people putting videos in their faces that allowed us to recognize that they lied. And he knows that. And I`m surprised he would even say that.

MELBER: What do you think it tells you more deeply about the mentality and the structural problems we`re facing in policing, which as a legal correspondent, I`m careful to note, there`s all kinds of people in the profession. But at the deeper and cultural level, policing seems to still operate in the United States as something that is supposed to be beyond oversight, reproach, or video, when we live in one of the most highly surveilled times of our life.

All of us citizens will be surveilled repeatedly throughout the day, through cameras we don`t even know about or see, say nothing of internet surveillance. What does it tell you about American policing that the very thought of being occasionally subjected to -- if I can be a little fancy surveillance -- surveillance is from above and surveillance is from the citizenry, to use the French, that the idea of citizen video is so offensive to the culture at least a part of policing.

KENDI: I think what it tells me is just how much we have -- and when I say we, people who think somehow that that police should not be held accountable, should not be documented in the activities, just how much we bought into, in many cases, their propaganda. And I think that`s part of the issue. And part of the propaganda of police is teaching us that there`s so much violence and danger in our society that we need so many police and we need the greatest, highest funded policing force in the world in order to keep us safe.

And I think that, in many cases, public health can keep us safe, better schools can keep us safe. Giving young kids jobs can keep us safe. And I think once we realize that, we`ll be actually more safe.

MELBER: Yes. And you`re speaking to, of course, the rationale, which is people want safe communities. They agree on public safety as a type of goal. We`re talking about, what are the underlying facts and evidence about what works. So, I appreciate your nuance on that and the mentality in Arizona of this law or police saying, well, we can`t possibly be recorded. It`s the police and law enforcement that are always saying, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

And if you`re patrolling in a way where you have nothing to hide, because it`s lawful and doesn`t involve brutality, well, then, Mr. Officer, you have nothing to fear. Dr. Kendi, I appreciate you coming on. I hope you come back.

KENDI: Of course. Thank you for having me.

MELBER: Absolutely.

We`re going to fit in a break. When we come back, we have Joanna Coles here on the new King.



MELBER: Tonight, we`ve covered a lot of news here in America, but the global news continues as King Charles III ushers in this new era for the monarchy. It was outside Buckingham Palace today that he greeted mourners and shook hands with people gathered there. He met with Prime Minister Liz Truss, and they will meet regularly under the rules to discuss state affairs.

He also gave his first address as King, a televised address where he discussed how his mother was an inspiration throughout his entire life and made a vow to the people.


CHARLES III, KING, UNITED KINGDOM: Queen Elizabeth was a life well lived a promise with destiny kept, and she has mourned most deeply in her passing. That promise of lifelong service I renew to you all today.


MELBER: Under the system, Charles becomes king immediately upon Queen Elizabeth`s death while the official ceremony will be conducted tomorrow. They call it the ascension council. And in a sign of how much times have changed over the span of one person`s life, consider that in the long history of the monarchy, this is the first time that proclamation ceremony will be televised.

There`s also some changes in British society. The postage will be printed now with King Charles on it. Here in America, President Biden has confirmed he will be traveling to attend that Royal Funeral. Britain is in an official 10 day period of mourning.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s an iconic woman. She`s such a legacy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just love The Queen. I think she was wonderful woman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re never going to see the like of her again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s been as solid as a rock and very, very selfless.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone is going to miss her quite greatly.


MELBER: That is the view across the pond for many Americans. This is a transatlantic moment. And we turn to a special guest that I mentioned here for that occasion. Joanna Coles is a Trans-Atlantic pioneering journalist. She is Chief Content Officer for Hearst. She`s been a magazine journalist and publisher for a long time. She received an honorary title from the Queen, Officer of the Order of the British Empire for that service to journalism and media.

You are indeed a pioneer and someone who has a deep understanding of all of this. Thanks for making time for THE BEAT tonight.

JOANNA COLES, FORMER CHIEF CONTENT OFFICER, HEARST: My pleasure, Ari. And you know, I`m a very sad pioneer today. It`s a very sad day. It`s genuinely the end of an era. But I did think that Prince Charles has -- or King Charles, as I should say, King Charles said that is going to take some getting used to for everybody, I think -- made a remarkably moving speech. His lovely line about "may flights of angels sing thee to thy wrist -- to thy rest" was really quite beautiful.

And I think a lot of people have felt suspicious of the possibility of Prince Charles as king. And you`re actually seeing that change as the man finally takes on the role but he`s been waiting to do. And what an extraordinary thing to know that your career rests on the death of your mother. And he`s been sitting there waiting for this role, and now he`s got it. And so far, first day is gone very well.

And of course, you mentioned President Biden confirming that he would be attending what will be an extraordinary state funeral. I think we can say it will be the most-coveted invitation in the world.

MELBER: Right. And as you say, both somber but all of the pomp, circumstance, history and tradition. You mentioned the address. Let`s listen to a little bit of it.


CHARLES III: As the Queen herself did with such unswerving devotion, I too now solemnly pledged myself throughout the remaining time, God groundspeed, to uphold the constitutional principles at the heart of our nation.


MELBER: The big question, while the nation mourns, how do you uphold some of these traditions in something that is to many antiquated at this point? How do you do that which until the system changes is the foundation while also being receptive to change, growth, or evolution which every society needs in which there are calls for in England?

COLES: Yes, that`s a great question. And I think really, King Charles will be a much more informal King. First of all, we know much more about him than we ever knew about his mother partly because she came at a time -- when she took over, she was only 25. She`d been educated within the palace walls. She had very little external life.

As I mentioned earlier, Prince Charles is 73. He`s been waiting to do this job a long time. He spent quite a lot of time with the media. He`s collaborated with biographers. We know a lot about him, his you know, marriage to Princess Diana. And now of course, he`s been married to the Queen Consort Camilla actually for 17 years.

So, we`ve watched him grow and evolve in public. I think people will grow much more fond of him than perhaps they expect. But there`s no question it`s going to be a slimmed-down monarchy. It will be smaller, it will be more economically, I think, thrifty. And you can see that already he`s -- you know, he`s acknowledged that Harry and Meghan are off having their life in America, and this will be about -- it will be about William, his heir.

MELBER: Let`s take a listen to exactly what you referenced, Prince Harry.


CHARLES III: I want also to express my love for Harry and Meghan as they continue to build their lives overseas.


MELBER: As you know, Joanna, throughout history --

COLES: It`s very clear --

MELBER: Throughout history, kings give shoutouts, and they say a lot with a little sometimes. What`s he doing there?

COLES: He`s acknowledging his affection I think for Harry. There`s been a lot of -- he`s had a lot of criticism from Harry and from other people that he somehow wasn`t emotionally warm enough with Harry, but he`s also saying you`ve made your bed, you`re going to lie in it.

MELBER: Well, there you have it. Joanna Coles --

COLES: lt`s the monarchy. It`s --

MELBER: Yes -- no, I --

COLES: No one said it`s going to be easy.


MELBER: Yes, no one said it would be easy, Coldplay, also a fitting reference. Joanna Coles, it`s always good to see you.

COLES: Thank you very much for having me.

MELBER: We`ll be right back.

MELBER: Who`s the richest person in the world? Who`s the greatest philanthropist in the world at least by money spent? Well, believe it or not. It`s not always the same person. But for a time Bill Gates has been one of the richest people in the world and he currently has the largest philanthropic footprint of anyone, which is part of the reason that Bill Gates will be my special guest on THE BEAT on Tuesday.

We`re a couple of days out. I wanted to let you know because we`re going to be talking about things that matter, development around the world, poverty, climate change, how do you fix some of these problems and how do you do it with innovation. Bill Gates is here Tuesday to discuss all of that, so I hope you tune in or you can always DVR THE BEAT to make sure you catch it or you can find it on YouTube.

So, I wanted to give you that headsup. You can find me at Go to right now. And that`s always the best way to connect with me if you have questions or ideas about anything we talked about tonight or Bill Gates, let me know.

That does it for us. I wish you a great weekend. "THE REIDOUT" starts now.