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Transcript: The Beat with Ari Melber, 7/15/22

Guests: Zoe Lofgren, Killer Mike


Next January 6th Committee hearing to focus on what Trump did and didn`t do as president during the attack at the Capitol. New spotlight on deleted text messages by the Secret Service, as new witnesses backing up account of Trump altercation with agents. January 6th Committee member on the upcoming primetime hearing next week. January 6 Select Committee member Zoe Lofgren joins Ari Melber to talk about the January 6 Committee investigating the deleted Secret Service text messages from January 5th and 6th. Musician and activist Killer Mike join Ari Melber to talk about the liberal that pushes Biden amidst inflation, Roe v. Wade fallout, and sagging approval.


NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows. We are so grateful. THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER starts right now.

Hi, Ari. Happy Friday.

ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Happy Friday, Nicolle. I hope you have a great weekend.

Welcome to THE BEAT, everyone. I am Ari Melber. And we have news coming out of this January 6th Committee as it really previews what`s going to happen at last scheduled hearing that we know of, which is in primetime next Thursday, this coming week. It will focus on something that we know about but like so much else with this committee, it may give us more detail and evidence that a sitting president stood by and did nothing, fell down on the job, failed, some called it dereliction of duty, while a major national security target was stormed with his own vice president inside.

It`s going to go into who he spoke to in those hours, what they`re calling those 187 minutes from when the Capitol was first breached until he finally, belatedly after all the damage had pretty much been done, after the law enforcement had finally gotten back in control, then he told rioters and insurrectionists to leave.


REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Next week we will return it to January 6th itself. For multiple hours, Donald Trump refused to intervene to stop it. He would not instruct the mob to leave or condemn the violence. He would not order them to evacuate the Capitol and dispersed. The many pleas for help from Congress did no good. His staff insisted that President Trump call off the attack. He would not.


MELBER: She said that at the last hearing. That reference to staff trying to get him to act, we have brand-new video that I`m going to show you in this first segment of THE BEAT tonight about a new witness calling him out on exactly that, which will lean into what we`re going to learn at the hearings. So we`re going to that.

But I also want to update you on the other big news tonight. The mystery here about the Secret Service, and why a law enforcement agency that is known for its rigor and its care, it has a very important set of jobs and its protectees, has suddenly been caught deleting text messages from when? Oh, the 5th and 6th of January, `21. So a watchdog is now involved. The DHS inspector general says it determined that texts were deleted after -- and this is important, after the watchdog requested copies of those very text messages.

The Secret Service has an answer. They say this was all part of a routine IT procedure. DHS officials have been discussing this. They were briefing about this with the January 6th Committee behind closed doors.


REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): We are investigating this issue that this, did text messages disappeared? If they did, why did they disappear? Was this some kind of a technical mistake or was this deliberate? And we are seeing conflicting information from the agencies about what took place.


MELBER: Now this is one of those things that does sound fishy and suspicious but that`s not enough. Not in journalism, certainly not in investigations. And so you may remember on the day of the 6th, people were talking about, well, the police must have let them in to the Capitol if they got in this easily. That was something that was wrongly assumed and stated and started to go viral.

This is another one of those kinds of stories. It is suspicious what the Secret Service is up to. They are going to get investigated, but whether or not this was deliberate or intentional has not been determined.

Now as for the other star witness, Cassidy Hutchinson, well, she`s finding her accounts backed up. A Washington police officer who was in the motorcade corroborates Hutchinson`s account of what Trump was doing.


CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS: The president said something to the effect of, I`m the effing president. Take me up to the Capitol now. The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We`re going back to the West Wing. We`re not going to the Capitol. Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel and when Mr. Ornato had recounted the story to me he had motioned towards his clavicles.


MELBER: That was the physical clash that went off like a bombshell when it was put under oath and in front of the nation. You may recall that it immediately yielded rigorous angry denials from the former president. We reported on that, and from other people who started attacking her for this, quote-unquote, "hearsay" thing. And there were reports that some unnamed people in the Secret Service said they wanted to disagree with her and they`re welcome to go participate and put their names on record under oath the way she did.

But the point here tonight before I bring in our experts is paramount. Think about what that testimony means. After the president was told people were armed and after he got to execute what has now been proven his plan to trick law enforcement and the police into not knowing that there was a march plan, that he announced and wanted to be, quote-unquote, "look spontaneous" so they would be caught unaware.


After he did that level of planning to try to help violent armed protesters and after they began to march on and breach the Capitol, around that time, he was still physically trying to get there, to the degree that he had this reported clash. It matters not because of the sort of salience or this sort of gossiping nature of him fighting with this own agents, although that`s quite a scene if it were a movie.

No, it matters because it is criminally relevant evidence of his state of mind and intention when the people he knew were armed were trying to make their way to perpetuate a criminal insurrection. He still at that point according to this testimony wanted to join them himself.

For more on exactly that, we bring in former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance and federal prosecutor John Flannery.

Joyce, I distinguish between the gossip and the criminal evidence because there are salacious details that could matter. At trial, sometimes you pick details that will stick in the jury`s mind. They`re not only the four corners of the legal case. But this would seem to have both, and tonight there`s a new police officer corroborating it.

JOYCE VANCE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: This is incredibly important information. This is the kind of information that pretty much mandates thorough investigation by the Justice Department. A big difference between a congressional hearing and a trial is that witnesses aren`t subjected to cross-examination. So it would be fair to have concerns about how Miss Hutchinson would hold up under cross-examination.

That is the Justice Department`s job. Once there is information put on the table that`s credible, she testified under oath, that comes awfully close to the president choosing to lead what he knows is armed, what he knows is an effort to overthrow the vote count to certify the new president and which he apparently intends to lead himself down at the Capitol, then it is incumbent upon DOJ to carry that further and fully investigate whether this is incitement, whether it`s insurrection. That full species of crime is on the table based on this information.


JOHN FLANNERY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I am not as confident that the Department of Justice will do the job because, you know, they paused to do even misdemeanors or contempt of Congress. We do see two themes here that I think are important. One is we have an anonymous Secret Service person say what she said was nonsense. And then we find that an officer, a D.C. officer corroborates what she has to say and apparently it was wildly enough known that he would know it and she would have heard it and others would have heard it, and the fact the president wanted to go to the Capitol and it was known within the White House, and that he might very well out of anger, and this time he wouldn`t be throwing food, he`d be reaching for the driver of the car.

So I would credit it as an important hypothesis to test, but it does fit other desperation incidents by the president, former President Trump. So I think that our problem is getting to these witnesses quickly enough. We see in the Secret Service messages that they evaporate with time or with help, and why do they disappear in the same month as something as historic as this attack on the Capitol?

A basic uninformed investigator would think this is important stuff to have and we don`t know what value it has, so why would we destroy it? Unless we`re like that anonymous Secret Service guy who`s more interested in (INAUDIBLE) than he is at getting at the truth. So I would side with the substantial evidence that Hutchinson was quite credible and believable, and this story is to push her back just as a character assassination was an attempt to diminish her credibility.

MELBER: That`s really interesting on all that. And then we have another development I want to update folks on. This Overstock executive, his name is Patrick Byrne, is now testifying behind closed doors, another sign of how this committee is getting witnesses. He was at the unhinged December meeting which tried to get the military involved in seizing voting machines. Take a listen.


PAT CIPOLLONE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: First of all, that Overstock person, I`ve never met, I never knew who this guy was. Actually the first thing I did I walked in, I looked at him and I said, "Who are you?"


MELBER: "Who are you" was the question. Well, here is and here`s what he said going into the testimony.



PATRICK BYRNE, FORMER OVERSTOCK CEO: I`ve been talking to the FBI. It`s kind of a broad question in the context of my life.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you been in contact with the FBI about the January 6th investigation for the DOJ?

BYRNE: No comment.


MELBER: Joyce?

VANCE: Well, that no comment was a longtime coming there. Look, if he hasn`t been in touch with the FBI already, I think he can expect a phone call because all kidding aside, this meeting that he participated in is one of the most frightening points of this entire affair. This is the point in time where folks come into the White House. You know, folks like Sidney Powell, the kraken lawyer, and they`re advocating that the president should sign an executive order that would essentially allow folks to seize voting machines.

That means to end any possibility of having a credible account of the outcome of the elections. Because once you seize the voting machines, you can engage in all sorts of manipulation.


VANCE: And so it`s the fact that Pat Cipollone shows up and puts an end to this and the others in the White House rush in when they get wind of this meeting and say this can`t go any further, that`s one of the turning points that turned out to save democracy.

Whether this is a legitimate witness or not, you know, I think is still up for question. Of course, Steve Bannon goes to trial on Monday. And his case is instructive. That case tells other witnesses if you flout a congressional subpoena. If you just refuse to show up, you`ll get prosecuted.


VANCE: So he, having no privilege against testifying to assert, has got to show up. Whether he is a cooperative witness, whether he tells the full story of that meeting is a different story. If he decided to cooperate, if he was truthful, if he told the story, he could be a very important witness, but the word if is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

MELBER: Right. It`s like those tweets that say big if true and that it`ll be like the universe is collapsing or whatever and you`re like, well, the if is carrying the whole tweet. But I take your careful legal analysis as well.

John, I told viewers at the top of the hour because we`ve been hitting a couple updates that we also have new testimony. Again, Liz Cheney was very clear in trying to get White House counsel to cooperate. He was late. He was difficult. He forced them to subpoena him and then he mussed as I reported earlier this week about who he thinks should get the Medal of Freedom, to which many Americans myself included said you are out of power. You`re not involved in that.

And why don`t you stick to just not going to prison, which was the threat that it took to get Mr. Cipollone to testify? Having said that, he still makes for a fact witness. And we pay attention to fact witnesses and this is his new factual account now under oath of what he said he tried to do during the actual televised violence on the day of the 6th. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it necessary for you to continue to push for a statement directing people to leave all the way through that period of time until it was ultimately issued after?

CIPOLLONE: I felt it was my obligation to continue to push for that and others felt it was their obligation as well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wouldn`t it have been possible at any moment for the president to walk down to the podium and the briefing room and talk to the nation at any time between when you first gave him that advice at 2:00 and 4:17 when the video statement went out? Would have been possible?

CIPOLLONE: Would that have been possible?


CIPOLLONE: Yes, it would have been possible.


MELBER: Yes, John. And so my question to you, if this is criminal evidence, which it may or may not be, what does a lawyer or a prosecutor do with those hours where the apparent question seems to be, were more crimes committed and more people hurt because of in this case the president`s refusal to act?

FLANNERY: Well, we talk about spoilation already. That is evidence disappearing. In the 178 minutes in which he did nothing, we have other people telling us what happened including Cipollone and even his daughter, and what we`re learning is that there was plenty going on. Plenty of opportunities to do what anyone would have done, in which the vice president had to do. And I think he shouldn`t get an award just for doing his job right when others are not.

And we have the result of that, that is, as I understand it, Pelosi and the vice president reached out to those that accounted for the force that probably saved our republic. So yes, we have a man who probably destroyed records, took them home to Mar-a-Lago, withheld the details, he should be called as a witness, I don`t prescribe to the committee what to do but --


MELBER: But specifically -- I`m only going to jump in to redirect, as you would say.


MELBER: Or as I would say, is the inaction --

FLANNERY: As you just did say.

MELBER: Yes, I did say. Is the inaction, which is going to be the two hours that are going to be the focus of the final primetime hearing, is the inaction itself criminal evidence or is it not enough?

FLANNERY: Yes, I think it is enough. I mean, it`s malfeasance. I mean, his job is to preserve and protect the Constitution, our government, and he fails entirely and then covers up the fact that he didn`t do anything and what he did do was kind of encouraging them. I love you, you were wonderful things. This is terrific. It`s like he only decided to talk to the people when he signaled a retreat. OK, no longer, stand by, and don`t do anything up there. Get out of town so that you`re not caught. And they were, you know, but the whole investigation became about the rioters instead of people like Trump and others who were doing the deed.

So, yes, I`m very comfortable with the fact, particularly as, you know, overt action can be innocent in conspiracy, well, I don`t think it`s innocent that overt act. I mean, it can be as simple as putting a call to someone. But this is, in my opinion, a criminal overt act and part of a conspiracy that has several means to accomplish a person who didn`t win the election getting to win the election by conducting a coup directly.

MELBER: Right.

FLANNERY: Luckily he didn`t.

MELBER: Right. Well, that`s the thing. We`ve seen time and again, the people who put up the walls may have not only helped the country but they also inadvertently helped Donald Trump or at least stretched out and complicated the case because had he actually gone down to the Pentagon, we have all the evidence that they would have said no, but boy, would he be an even hotter soup so to speak.

Joyce and John, thanks for kicking us off. Have a great weekend.

Let me tell folks what`s coming up because we have that Bannon case that starts Monday. The other person facing a trial, criminally, Peter Navarro has new evidence that contradicts some of what`s going on there. And reports that he turned down a plea offer.

Then Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of the January 6th Committee is my special guest tonight. And tonight we`ll be joined by someone you may know from politics, culture and music. Killer Mike has a new song out and he`s talking about how to locally organize what he says the next generation is doing already. We`ve got an update on all of that tonight.



MELBER: The January 6th Committee has proven to be one of the more effective, constrained, sober, and bipartisan committee investigations in the modern era which has put a lot of pressure on Donald Trump. Now they`re heading toward the last scheduled hearing that we know which will be in primetime next week. And as it happens because they don`t control the scheduling, the final hearing will coincide with the first criminal trial of someone facing jail because of their dealings with the committee.

Steve Bannon has tried to cut and run and get some kind of deal. But it has not delayed what will be a Monday trial start. Also you have Peter Navarro, who`s the second person facing a criminal trial over dealings with the committee, and he, as I mentioned at the top of the hour, this is news, he has just formerly declined a plea offer according to DOJ prosecutors. That`s interesting. And we`re going to get into that. He would also face jail time if convicted. He is legally presumed innocent.

Meanwhile, growing questions about the role in this coup. We`ve reported on something that was initially not fully understood, just how all those people that Trump`s own aides and lawyers didn`t think should be in the White House in the first place, how they got in. Well, it was a Navarro aide who snuck Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell into the unhinged December meeting. Now Navarro told us here on THE BEAT that he disclaimed anything about that. He has of course accepted responsibility for all kinds of things that he claims were allowed, like his so-called sweep but we also found this clip of him publicly promoting the idea back in December 2020.


MELBER: And was it a bad idea or wrong to pursue the military to seize American voting machines?

PETER NAVARRO, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: That I would like to get more to the bottom of. That`s not something that I would have put forward by any stretch of the imagination.

I think we need a special counsel that we put in place before inauguration day to get to the bottom of this. I think we need to seize a lot of those voting machines.


MELBER: Special counsel and the voting machines. And remember, it can be hard to figure out who to take seriously or not, but Donald Trump wrote the January 6th announcement tweet by beginning with a reference to Peter Navarro`s report. He could have cited anyone or anything, he cited Navarro. And Navarro who clearly decided that he does not want to be linked to that military meeting, as I showed you, back in the day before he knew how much this will be investigated, was talking very similarly about the same idea. And here`s what else he said on THE BEAT.


NAVARRO: The report I did, the three volume Navarro report on PeterNavarro,com, by the way, voting machines were like a footnote to a footnote. There were just so many other things going on. I`ve never been a machine guy.


MELBER: False. Only Mr. Navarro knows why he wants to minimize that, but here we`re showing you from that Navarro report that he has been so passionate about promoting, this is the same report that Trump tweeted about in the announcement of January 6th rally and the secret march. You see the words voting machine there. It is a whole subsection in his report about voting machines. This was the plan.

That report was mentioned in Trump`s tweets as I`ve told you, which is very important because we`re seeing the circle close on some of this stuff in ways that even people like Mr. Navarro now awaiting trial are trying to run from.


Peter Navarro released his 36-page report, you see it here, and by the end, "be there. It`ll be wild." There are still things we don`t know and there are still things that subpoena-backed investigators will find out that journalists only have pieces of, that`s just how it works. But a lot of this is coming together in ways that look worse than they even looked back then, which is really saying something.

And what`s the committee going to do about it? And what`s going to happen at this final primetime hearing? Well, we always try to go to the source and I`m thrilled to tell you that a leading investigator, January 6th Committee member, Congresswoman Lofgren is here when we`re back in one minute.


MELBER: We`re back with January 6th Committee member Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren.

Thanks for being here.

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Sure. Happy to do it.

MELBER: Based on the available public evidence, what is the significance of that meeting, that late-night meeting which explored potentially a legal and military related efforts to overthrow the election, and what Donald Trump later did that night, which as we shows is cite Mr. Navarro and this other strategy also potentially illegal to overthrow the election?

LOFGREN: Well, it seems more than coincidence that he has what is described as this unhinged meeting where he is going to appoint Sidney Powell to be special counsel or -- and going to seize the voting machines, and then as soon as they are ushered out, he releases really the call to arms, also citing Mr. Navarro and the voting machine myth. So I think it`s not a coincidence.

MELBER: So, if it`s not a coincidence, at what point does it add to the criminal evidence essentially that Donald Trump was going to try to overthrow the election and that the only reason -- it appears the only reason he didn`t do the military thing was because they told him it wasn`t going to work?

LOFGREN: Well, I -- you know, we don`t do criminal evidence. We`re a legislative committee. That`s for the Department of Justice. But we do think it`s quite clear that the president, you know, through a variety of actions, intended to not have the election count to overturn the election. I mean, in various ways, that is very troubling to say that we are going to pick myself as president and disregard the votes of the American people and the electoral college.

MELBER: Right.

LOFGREN: That`s essentially what it amounts to and it`s not the way we do things here in America.

MELBER: Mr. Navarro of course is not rejecting this plea offer and preparing for trial. Mr. Bannon`s trial begins Monday. He did make waves by really backing down from his public stance that your committee was illegitimate and saying that he didn`t want to try to cooperate in some way. We reported on the problems with that. But as he awaits a Monday trial, can you update us on the status? Has there been any accommodation reached for his testimony or documents?

LOFGREN: Well, let me just say this. We asked for testimony and documents last fall and we were specific with all of the documents we want. So far as I`m aware, as of this moment, we haven`t received any of those documents. So I think he is just blowing smoke for the court because if he were serious, he would have produced all of those documents that we have been waiting for for these many, many months.

MELBER: I hear that, and the documents are important. Is there any discussion of a date for him to come in and testify?

LOFGREN: Well, he`s in the middle of his trial right now. And we are, of course, getting ready for our Thursday interview. Obviously we want to question him. That`s why we subpoenaed him. That`s why we referred this to the Department of Justice.


What can happen right now, even while he`s sitting in that courtroom is that he can, you know, direct his people to send us all the documents that wouldn`t interfere with his being there in court, and we haven`t gotten them and I`m wondering, I`m guessing we maybe will not.

MELBER: Copy. The other big news here has been about the Secret Service. What evidence do you have about these deleted texts as it appear from what you know that this was just the I.T. error they say or there`s more to it?

LOFGREN: Well, we have a lot of questions. And the I.G. said that they deleted these texts on from the 5th and the 6th after he asked for them. There was a statement made by the Secret Service last night, saying that although there was some text lost, that none of the text had been asked for from the 5th and 6th had been lost. So, we`re going to insist on getting those texts if they`re there, and they need to deliver them to us right now.

MELBER: It seems when you take it all together, that there has been overwhelming evidence that Donald Trump`s plot went much further than the horror of the 6th. But that he tried to overthrow the election, through multiple steps and overt acts, that would appear criminal. At the end of the day, do you think this committee has laid out a case that Donald Trump committed one or more crimes in that effort?

LOFGREN: Well, you know, as I say, we`re a legislative committee. We will I`m sure have a discussion when we`re a little bit farther along in the evidence collection on, you know, whether or not to send a letter to the Department of Justice with our conclusions, but certainly, the attorney general has says he`s watching all of this.

So, I don`t think he would need a letter from us to be made aware of what we`ve come out with. We -- it`s very clear that the president, former president has culpability. The decision on you know, illegality is something that, you know, the Department of Justice has to decide. But in terms of whether it was right or wrong, it was wrong.

MELBER: Put clearly. You have a lot of experience in this field. I`ve mentioned to folks, the committees you`ve been involved in data back to Watergate. And as we watch the evidence here, the public can try to make sense of it. But it`s clear that we`re learning a lot from this committee. So, Congressman Lofgren, thank you for joining us.

LOFGREN: Thank you, anytime.

MELBER: Appreciate it. Coming up, you have Republicans dealing with actual fallout, and punishing protests, and potentially midterm problems, over all of these anti-choice rulings and the way the states are trying to ban women`s rights. We`re going to get into that tonight in an important way. But first, we`re hearing about this go bigger go home. Why there is a new plan to go do grassroots organizing to hold Mitch McConnell accountable for obstruction right now. Stay with us.



MELBER: As Washington debates legislation, obstruction, and investigations, many Americans continue to face rising prices on everything from groceries to rent. Gas has finally come down a bit. Steady drops over the last month. A sliver of possible relief that the Biden administration has emphasized admits even more setbacks this week as Republicans teamed up with conservative Democrat Joe Manchin to block any vote on Biden`s climate and tax plan.

Meanwhile, liberals have passed some major reform bills this year. But after House passage, they remain blocked in the Senate. And as Biden faces this obstruction and economic headwinds, and that hostile Supreme Court, there are progressives saying now is the time to go big. To go at the deeper roots of problems in the structure of America, which is something the artists and activists Killer Mike is explored in his work and his art and on the campaign trail.


KILLER MIKE, MUSICIAN AND ACTIVIST: When a man yells for his mother in duress and pain and she`s dead, he is essentially yelling, please God, don`t let it happen to me and we watched it.

Start organizing on her behalf. You can now plot plan, strategize, organize and mobilize to deal with it on the front end and not too bad.

I`ve seen no group of people accelerate financially as quick as we`ve been able to education-wise. So, we need to congratulate that and we need to focus in and make that light of laser.


MELBER: That`s the political side plot and organize. Well, Netflix viewers, if you`re one of them, may recognize some of the show Trigger Warning which confronts gangs, white supremacists, the criminal justice system, exploring how we got to this point in history as so many people think about how things are going right now.

Voters of course may recall Mike`s endorsement and campaigning for Bernie Sanders, or music fans may know him as the Grammy-winning leader of the duo Run The Jewels. So, from politics to culture, there are lessons as we`ve explored in this very program that we can draw from history. And shout out to again Killer Mike who offered some of those lessons a decade back in the iconic anthem Reagan.


RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We did not, repeat, did not trade weapons or anything else for hostages.

MIKE: They declared a war on drugs, like a war on terror. But what it really did was let the police terrorize whoever. But mostly black boys, but they would call us (BLEEP). But thanks to Reaganomics, prison turned to profits `cause free labor`s the cornerstone of U.S. economic --



MELBER: I think the point here is Killer Mike has been on the case and busy in many ways, and it`s great to see you, sir. Welcome back.

MIKE: It`s good to be here with the fellow hip-hopper, although you`re very well dressed and I`m going to Run the Jewels T-shirt.

MELBER: Well, Run The Jewels shirt is that`s the right thing to start with. And I`ll tell you, we`re going to get to your new album, new music, people are excited about that. But fittingly, given your work, I want to start with the state of play. We just walked through how there`s the day-to-day prices, people are hurting. And then there`s what you`ve been exploring for a long time, which is the also go to the structural problems in America. What do you think Washington and the Democrats need to do right now?

MIKE: Toughen up. I think that -- I think that, in particular, very progressive voices within the Democratic Party are suppressed. I saw a South Carolinian and Jim Clyburn go to a home of state in Ohio to make sure he sabotaged our political opponent of not his liking. And Nina Turner, I think Nina Turner has depleted progressive movement right now. I thought when Mr. Clyburn did was abominable, I thought it was disgusting and I find it repugnant.

And I just like to say that just because this is the same person who three decades earlier had fought for radically progressive -- radically progressive policy. But once in house, we start acting like me in the house and everybody not in the house, a lot of us are in the fields. And the ones that are in the fields have to take up, where we took up 60 years ago, and we have to push for radical policy.

Now, I think that in my particular -- in my community in particular, there are certain things that we could do, that we could press for, I think we could press for a black agenda. I think that we could do like Fred Hampton did impress for a black, and working-class agenda, that no matter your race will help you. I think that as we have to have infrastructure bills over the next 20 years.

That we need to make sure that young black and working-class white boys in the south have an opportunity to go to trade school. I`ll talk to my current governor about it. Whoever is my governor in November, I`ll talk to again about it. I support programs like Georgia YouthBuild, that takes young men and women who might not have graduated high school, gets them their G.D.s.

Gets them qualified to work as carpenters, electricians, bridge builders, concrete layers. And that way we`ll have actual families that where the mother may have went to college, she can marry someone of a trade that can make a decent living. Back in the 40s, enormously high prices, we`re paying them for milk and bread. So, what I want to do with things that are radical, and not things that are radical, like destroying the police department, my father was (INAUDIBLE).

What I like to see is policemen that come from the community policing the community. What I`d like to see is money that we put into bulletproof vests and guns, going to the Police Athletic League, and to start a foster relationship between the police and the community. I`d like to see more of that thinking and less of the other. I like to see people like Tesla and Figaro, who I met on the Bernie Sanders campaign, we should be working for him.

I`d like to see her put an appointment by some U.S. senator or congressman, that teaches people how to run on a local level because many of them are radical in changing policies we`ve had. We`ve had from the ground up, not the top down. So -- but I like to see a radical -- a radical change in how we view politics.

MELBER: Right, radical change, doing it with people who are connected to the community, and interesting to hear you criticize some of the incumbent Democrats for what you see as the change and you`re naming names, which reminds people you`re in this fight. I promised the new music here, which is also political. But let`s play a little bit here from Run, and what you`re talking about, take a look.


DAVE CHAPPELLE COMEDIAN AND ACTOR: Mike, the one thing about being (BLEEP) in America, it`s like storming the beach in Normandy. A guy gets popped, another guy goes, another guy falls. You just gotta keep going.

MIKE: The race for freedom isn`t won. Run, (BLEEP), run. Had to make it out the red clay. Run, (BLEEP), run.


MELBER: We got about 90 seconds left, although I`d love to have you back again. What are you saying in both in the music and your advocacy?

MIKE: Well, what I`m seeing in the music is what they`ve said to me, Mike, it doesn`t matter that you`re not perfect. It doesn`t matter you have imperfections. What matters is that you`re a truth-teller. People believe in you and we want you to run for office. So, on the local level, whether it`s council person, commission, or worse person, I want regular people running.

If you`re in Atlanta on September 10th, I want you to attend (INAUDIBLE) rolls conference on how to run. I also want people to run for statewide elections that may not have or didn`t think they had the courage and the money to because we`ll get behind you and support you. I want to thank Young Thug who`s currently under indictment and locked up for being a part of this record.

And I want to tell people that may not think he said something. When he talked about but thinking the same, but not banking the same. He was one of the first people to jump on my black bank account -- my bank -- black campaign. So, shout out to Greenwood for that. Citizens trust and many are the black banks. I just want people to know like, Dave, let me know.


You have the power to do it. Don`t be afraid, there are people behind you, and we will support you. So local elections matter more than federal elections in most of your cases, I want you running locally, I want you to beat up the machine. And I will be right there to support you just like me and Sanders when we went down to the Amazon factories in Alabama.

Even though they didn`t get unionized. You look up in New York and New Jersey, they are unionizing. And I expect that to come from the south. But it only happens when one brave person steps up like that brother did in the northeast, and we`ll be supporting him as well.

MELBER: You know, Mike, we`ve talked before -- they talk in sports about fair weather fans and politics, they talk about the bandwagon. You`re the opposite of that. Because you`ve been out here, you`re in primaries, you`re in local races, you`re talking with real people on the ground. So, I will just -- I will just say that it`s something people can learn from whether they agree with you on everything or not. Let`s let the debate floors. And Mike thanks for coming back on THE BEAT, sir.

MIKE: Ari, thank you, and may you a (INAUDIBLE). I look forward to seeing you at the Run The Jewels show in New York in a few weeks. With love, brother.

MELBER: It`s a deal. It`s a deal as a promise. Thank you, Mike. Have a great weekend

MIKE: I got some love. Peace brother.

MELBER: And when we come back, we build on that point but going in a different direction. Republicans are facing this backlash over women`s rights and we have an interesting update on what`s really happening out there, next.



MELBER: Turn into a story of action as well as accountability. There is a horrific development that you may have heard about that is actually shining a light on what we are now going to live through in a nation without Roe v. Wade. And here are the facts, a 10-year-old rape victim had to travel outside of her own state of Ohio and crossed the line into Indiana to obtain an abortion because of the new Ohio ban of abortion after the six weeks of pregnancy, which is a product of this new post-Roe world.

Now, what I just told you is a reported fact. And legally, police say the defendant in that case that I`m telling you about admitted the rape and pled guilty. We can show you that now confess rapist in court. So, this is all happening. But when the story first broke, conservatives and Republican operatives immediately tried to lie about it. To sow confusion.

The Fox News sister publication the New York Post talked about, quote, glaring questions. A Wall Street Journal published an editorial immediately saying this was, quote, too good to confirm. At a minimum, that is a terrible choice of words. But it turned out to be much worse than that for a news outlet. Meanwhile, a top --


JESSE WATTERS, HOST, FOX NEWS: Have you had anybody come to you in your state to say we`re looking into this police report was filed?


(End VT)

MELBER: That there just to be clear was, as I was mentioning, the Ohio Republican attorney general, suggesting there not a whisper of a report. Well, also that proved incorrect as we just showed you the legal proceedings. The point here is not to make something out of any of this. These are just facts.

And if you are involved in law and order in any way, let alone attorney general, violent crimes are something to just take seriously and follow the evidence, where the abortion took place in Indiana. Well, that attorney general started talking about going after the doctor. Official records support that that doctor was following the law. But here is the A.G.


TODD ROKITA, INDIANA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Then we have this abortion activist acting as a doctor with a history of failing to report. So, we`re gathering the information. We`re gathering the evidence as we speak, and we`re going to fight this to the end.

(End VT)

MELBER: This is what`s happening out there. You can see on your screen of fact check, that was a reported procedure. Well, one of the most Trump- friendly and loyal Republicans in Congress, the Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan, posted online, quote, another lie. Anyone surprised? He has since deleted that tweet, we should note, but here he was dodging.


SHAUN KRAISMAN, HOST, NEWSMAX: There are minors that are victims of rape. Should they be forced to carry out this child? Should they have this option? In the state of Ohio, sir, where do you fall on that?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Well, this is a question, this is straight on the Supreme Court -- Supreme Court`s decision. This is the question that the legislators in the respective states will answer --


MELBER: It went on like that. We won`t show you more of it. As people fight and march and try to confront what we`re dealing with at a legal level and a human rights level and a women rights level. You have to understand there`s a reason why the Wall Street Journal says that a rape is, quote, too good to be true. And why some Republicans cannot answer what they`re doing and what it means.

Because people can have disagreements about when life begins at a religious level. But the government has to create laws that protect people and especially children. And this is a story that`s not too good to be true. It`s a story people are lying about because they`re afraid if you learn the truth, you might just throw them out of office.

We`re going to fit in a break. But when we come back, we`ve got an update about speaking out and all the ways that there is still hope even in sometimes a grim landscape. It`s something I want to share with you before the weekend.




PHOEBE BRIDGERS, SINGER-SONGWRITER: It`s almost like tweeting but really sad.

MELBER: Sad tweeting?


MELBER: Is that -- is that the brand.

BRIDGERS: Totally.

MELBER: And then when you do that, you`re sure it`s going to work or you`re just doing it like to be real.

BRIDGERS: A lot of my favorite lyrics have kind of started as a joke. I think. I`m like, I can`t actually say this. And then I do.


MELBER: You can`t really say, we`ve all joked like that. That was Grammy- nominated singer-songwriter, Phoebe Bridgers, talking to me this week, that we aired this week, about her creative process. It`s from the newest episode of "MAVERICKS" with Ari Melber. Where we talk to artists and musicians. And we covered a lot of ground on her music, her idols which she`s taken from Joni Mitchell and David Bowie.

Some of that, we didn`t have time to air on THE BEAT. So, I want to make sure you know you can find it online at "MAVERICKS" at Or see this Q.R. code on your screen? That thing in the middle there like it`s the menu. Well, if you put that on your phone right now with your camera, you can go directly to "MAVERICKS,"

And you can always connect with me at In fact, you can connect with me and tell me who else we should have on "MAVERICKS" or what other artists like Killer Mike we should have on the program. Because I love hearing your ideas at And I wish you a great weekend. "THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID" starts now.