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Transcript: The 11th Hour with Stephanie Ruhle, 9/19/22

Guests: Luke Broadwater, Claire McCaskill, Chuck Rosenberg, Tim Ryan, Adrienne Elrod, Carlos Curbelo, David Miliband


Special master Raymond Dearie asked Trump`s legal team to show evidence that the former President declassified documents in the Mar-a-Lago case, but his lawyers refused. Trump mocked GOP Senate candidate J.D. Vance as he campaigned for him at an Ohio rally over the weekend. And the global effects of the war in Ukraine, specifically on food supply.



LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC ANCHOR: If you have a daughter or granddaughter or sister who`s thinking about going to law school the book to get her is Dahlia Lithwick`s Lady Justice. Dahlia Lithwick gets tonight`s "LAST WORD". THE 11TH HOUR with Stephanie Ruhle starts now.


STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC ANCHOR: Tonight, a judge asks Team Trump a question they cannot answer. And there`s new reporting that the former guy who was warned about taking classified documents from the White House, then Ohio Democratic Senate candidate Tim Ryan`s first interview after his Republican opponent and the former president staged a rally that looks a lot like a conspiracy convention.

Plus, Putin`s war in Ukraine is causing prices to soar in the U.S. and a food crisis around the world as THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on this Monday night.

Good evening, once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle and we start this evening with breaking news that says Donald Trump was warned late last year that he could face serious legal trouble if he did not return White House Records taken to Mar-a-Lago.

The New York Times reports that warning came from one time White House lawyer Eric Herschmann. You probably remember Herschmann is very colorful testimony to the January 6 Committee. He talked about his efforts to try to stop attempts to keep Trump in power after he lost the 2020 election.

The Times reports Herschmann quote, sought to impress upon Mr. Trump the seriousness of the issue and the potential for investigations and legal exposure if he did not return the documents, particularly in a classified material.

We`re learning all of this, just as the former guys lawyers are heading into a new round of high stakes court battles. They have until noon tomorrow to file their response to the DOJ`s appeal of the judge`s decision to temporarily block investigators from examining classified documents before the special master finishes his own review.

Also tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. the special master himself Raymond Dearie will hear from Trump`s legal team and the Department of Justice for the first time. He`s already asked Team Trump to explain the ex-president`s declassification defense.

Today, Trump lawyer sent the special master a letter basically refusing to do that. And an important reminder, it is now been more than six weeks since the Mar-a-Lago search. And there are still absolutely no explanation from Trump about why he had the documents.

Last night on 60 minutes, President Biden was asked what he thought when he first saw the classified items that were recovered by the FBI.


JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: How anyone could be that irresponsible. I thought what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods. I have not asked for the specifics of those documents because I don`t want to get myself in the middle of whether or not Justice of Department should move or not move.


RUHLE: Meanwhile, Trump was back on his social media site saying his return to Mar-a-Lago for the first time since the FBI search. His posts also included several rants going after federal law enforcement, and he was again rally against law enforcement during his rally on Saturday in Ohio, an event that also featured music nearly identical to the conspiracy theory group QAnon`s them song. Trump was there to campaign for Republican Senate nominee JD Vance will be speaking to Vance`s Democratic opponent Tim Ryan later in the hour, but we got stuff to get to first.

So let`s get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel. Luke Broadwater joins us, Pulitzer Prize winning congressional reporter for the New York Times. Former Missouri Senator MSNBC political analyst and a favorite on this hour Claire McCaskill and Chuck Rosenberg joins us, former U.S. attorney and former senior FBI official.

Chuck, John Dearie (ph), the Special Master is getting to work immediately. And one of the first things he is doing is demanding Trump`s show proof that he actually declassified these documents like he`s claimed. And I want to share what our friend Andrew Weissmanm had to say about Dearie`s move.


ANDREW WEISSMANN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: If they don`t answer it, it`s pretty clear what he`s going to do. He`s going to say, Well, look, if you`re not making the argument that they`re declassified, well, they`re classified on their face. The government`s telling me they`re classified it walks, talks looks like a duck. There`s an affidavit saying there`s a duck and you`re not saying that it`s not a duck. So guess what? They`re classified.


RUHLE: What do you think, Chuck?

CHUCK ROSENBERG, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: If that sounds right, yes, I`m not sure I`d go with the duck metaphor, Stephanie. I think there`s a simpler way to explain it. If the documents are classified, and President Trump, former President Trump`s thinks he declassified them at some point, then say so then demonstrate it.


But none of his lawyers have ever said that in court. And so the presumption as Andrew was presuming, the presumption is that they are classified. The judge has asked a simple question. They`re not classified. Stephanie, tell me. If they`re not classified, we can move past this issue.

By the way, I think a bit -- I think of this as a bit of a red herring, let me explain that. In some ways, it doesn`t even matter. The underlying statutes that issue, the statutes upon which the search warrant was executed doesn`t require the documents to be classified.

The classification is important to the intelligence community, it matters to the damage assessment, it doesn`t really matter to the underlying criminal case. Judge Dearie trying to get to the point, he asked a simple question, you`d like a simple answer, and he`s simply not getting that.

RUHLE: Welcome to Brooklyn, Donald Trump, you are not in Florida anymore. Not with Special Master Dearie. Claire, Dearie appears to be fair, and speedy. How`s that going to play in Trump world?

FMR. SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL. MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think they`re going to try to stall. I mean, I think that`s why they asked the special master in the first place. And I think it probably was a surprise to them that DOJ agreed to one of their suggestions for a special master. But clearly, this particular judge is well known as fair and nonpartisan.

And honestly, if you look at everything that`s going on right now, in the world of law, and Donald Trump, there`s so much more Donald Trump should be worried about. He`s got six different investigations going on. One in Georgia, two in New York, one in DOJ having nothing to do with the documents, the January 6 committee is still very busy. And then of course, the document case.

And as we all know, now, M-A-G-A stands for making attorneys get attorneys. He`s having trouble finding lawyers that are willing to represent him on all this. And I think he`s worried that the next thing is going to happen. They`re going to come to Mar-a-Lago all right. I think he`s where you`re going to come with an indictment.

RUHLE: Don`t know who`s paying all of these lawyers. Chuck, what should we be watching for next from Judge dairy?

ROSENBERG: Well, I think to your point and Claire`s point, he is known for being efficient for being fair, and for being very, very smart. What I think you should look for tomorrow is sort of an agenda setting meeting, right logistics and administrative issues will get addressed, you`d like to set a timeline. There`s a notional timeline already out there.

And my understanding from people who have practiced in front of him I have not, but from folks who have they say he gets to it, Stephanie, and that`s what this case needs, right? Delay never helps criminal investigations, or criminal prosecutions. The Trump folks have to know that. The government certainly knows that.

And so what everyone is looking to from Judge Dearie, everyone that is, except for the Trump team to Claire`s point is for him to expedite this as quickly as possible. Now, I don`t expect anything before November. I think we`re going to go into a bit of a quiet period between now and the midterm elections.

And so there is still time for the government to do parts of its investigation covertly and quietly and professionally. But the government does need answers from Judge Dearie and I think they have the right judge for that. I think they have a judge who will get to it.

RUHLE: One Trump lawyer, Luke, knew how problematic all of this would or could be. Eric Herschmann. Reporting today says he warned Trump over a year ago, what are the problems that taking these documents would cause what more do you know about this?

LUKE BROADWATER, THE NEW YORK TIMES CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Right. This is really important new reporting from my colleague, Maggie Haberman, in the New York Times tonight. The fact that Eric Herschmann warned Donald Trump personally, that he could face legal exposure, if he continued to keep these documents and Mar-a-Lago, particularly the classified documents, but really, then all of them had to be returned.

And the fact that he kept them there for months and months and months after repeated requests a subpoena and eventually a search warrant, and that there were both non-classified and unclassified information there that should have been returned to the National Archives, I think really does get to the fact that Donald Trump either knew or should have known that he should have returned these documents, and that is what prosecutors the Justice bar will be looking at.

So I do think this is important new evidence. We do know that there has been a grand jury subpoena for Eric Herschmann in the January 6 investigation. And so, you know, I would not surprise me at all given this reporting, if there`s also if the prosecutor also wants to talk to him about the Mar-a-Lago search now.

RUHLE: Claire, do you believe you`ve spent a lot more time at the White House than we have. Do you believe we`re going to learn that a lot more people were involved?


I mean, if Eric Herschmann knew enough to warn Trump a year ago to talk to him about it, you know, Donald Trump, he wasn`t going through documents at the White House figuring out which had nuclear information. He wasn`t packing up 15 boxes himself. But he got them down to his house, and he hid them there. And he lied about it for months. Were more people involved in this than Trump when we were learning that soon?

MCCASKILL: I think eventually, we will. But I think it came down to something very simple. He thought everything that was in the White House belonged to him, including the office. You know, he thought the office of the presidency was his. He didn`t realize it didn`t belong to him. He didn`t get to keep it. And just like these documents.

And by the way, in all of this, I keep wondering, Stephanie, what happened to the defense that the FBI came in and planted them? You know, you look back, you look back at some of the things that Trump said in the early days of this, and he is such a liar. I just don`t get it. I don`t get why his supporters don`t understand that if his mouth is moving, he is lying.

RUHLE: But why don`t they take me to your state? Take me to your home state? How do hardcore or even moderate Republicans, how do they absorb all these stories as they come in day after day, Claire?

MCCASKILL: I think what he did with this election, and what he did with the news media writ large, was he began very early planting with his supporters. If you hear something bad about me, it`s the swamp. If you hear something bad about me, it`s the fake news. It`s mainstream media. It`s the liberal left, everything they hear that is bad about him. He has convinced them that they are not getting the true story. And that really, he`s this great businessman and tells the truth.

So, it`s just like the fraud. He started planning the fraud idea months before the election. If I don`t win, it`s a fraud, because you know, he couldn`t ever face that he could lose anything.

RUHLE: Chuck, for the DOJ, could this news about Eric Herschmann warning Trump could that mean anything? Obviously, it`s a wow story. It`s a big headline from the Department of Justice`s standpoint, if they`re able to prove if Eric Herschmann tells them this under oath. I warn Trump, does that help their case?

ROSENBERG: Yes. And Luke touched on this and let me explain that, Stephanie. The hardest thing to prove in a criminal case is intent. So that`s why prosecutors and agents want to talk to folks who are around the subject of the investigation, who is around Trump, who talked to him to whom did he talk? What was he told, and what did he understand? It`s always hard to prove.

But the more Eric Herschmann you have, the more people who spoke with Trump about the documents, the fact that they didn`t belong to him, they weren`t his, right, that he could get in trouble for holding on to them, particularly if they`re classified. The more folks you have like that, the more witnesses, the easier it becomes to prove intent.

And so does that matter to the Department of Justice if they were to charge a case, and we`re going to go to trial and wanted to convict someone? You bet it does, because that`s how you prove intent. And intent is always an element that government has to prove in these types of -- in these types of cases. Stephanie.

RUHLE: I want to talk January 6, before we go, Claire, because Liz Cheney revealed something very interesting at an event tonight, watch this.


REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY) JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE VICE CHAIR: You know, in the cloakroom, on January 6, before the attack happened, there were so many who wanted to show they were objecting that they`d set up the signup sheets in the cloakroom.

And as I was sitting there, a member came in, and he signed his name on each one of the states sheets. And then he said under his breath, the things we do for the orange Jesus. And I thought, you know, you`re taking an act that is unconstitutional.


RUHLE: The things we do for the orange Jesus, that`s funny, but it`s not. Does it surprise you, Claire?

MCCASKILL: No, it doesn`t surprise me. I listened to a lot of senators, make fun of Trump behind his back, acknowledge that he didn`t know anything about anything. They`d go to meetings at the White House, they just come back, shaking their heads. And he didn`t know the first thing about health care or whatever policy they were talking about he was a joke and a liar.

But you know, so what if they don`t have the courage to come forward and do what they should do right now, and that is to say our democracy is in peril. If our party keeps putting people forward that refuse to accept the results of elections.

RUHLE: Those senators Clara`s talking about our Republican senators, Luke, so as these investigations and the headlines are mounting against Trump. When you`re in Washington in Republican circles are other lawmakers getting bolder about their presidential aspirations?


BROADWATER: Yes, I mean, I do think there`s quite a bit of feeling out about when will be the breaking point for Trump. There`s quite a few people who want to run for office. It does seem like the only potential challenge are right now in the ranks is DeSantis in Florida, but there are others. I mean, there`s at least four just on the Judiciary Committee who would like to be president for Republicans.

So, but -- as of right now, they have no lane but so everyone is quietly watching to see when the party will abandon Trump. Everybody knows every smart Republican strategist I talk to quietly knows that every time Donald Trump is in the news, it hurts third party, and -- but no one is willing to stand up to him or do anything about it. And so it does seem like it`s it`s Trump`s party, until it`s not and and that`s the foreseeable future.

RUHLE: All right, and thank you so much for starting us off this evening, Luke Broadwater, Claire McCaskill and Chuck Rosenberg. Before we go to commercial break, we need to give you an update on hurricane Fiona, which has parts of Puerto Rico measuring rainfall, not by the inch, but by the foot tonight. The storm tore across the island just two days before the fifth anniversary of Hurricane Maria our Gabe Gutierrez is there with more.


GABE GUTIERREZ, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): The flooding in Puerto Rico is catastrophic, entire towns underwater people on rooftops desperately waiting for help. In the southern town of Salinas, staggering aerial images, roads and poems submerged hurricane Fiona trenching the island for days.

Some parts are expecting up to 35 inches of rain through tomorrow. As the eye of the storm slog west toward the Dominican Republic, it`s outer fans seem to hover over Puerto Rico washing off bridges, triggering mudslides and sinkholes most of the island is still without power. About two-thirds is now without running water. Tonight the rain is still not over in parts of Puerto Rico. The recovery is just beginning.


RUHLE: And Fiona is growing even stronger as it heads toward Bermuda. The storm is forecast to be a major hurricane by tomorrow. It could be a category three or higher by then.

When we come back. Donald Trump and Ohio Republican Senate candidate JD Vance will the very strange and conspiracy filled rally in Ohio. Democratic Senate candidate Tim Ryan is here to respond to the strange sight right in his backyard and a criminal probe into who convicted those -- who convinced those immigrants to get onto a plane to Martha`s Vineyard and isn`t backfiring on Ron DeSantis.

And later, the Russian army stole grain from Ukraine to sell it back on the black market. One small part of a looming global food crisis tied to Putin is war. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on a very busy Monday night. Don`t go anywhere.




DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The New York Times did a fake story today big front page that JD wasn`t sure if he wanted my support. JD is kissing my ass he wants my support. I`m 18 points up. If I was 18 points down, he wouldn`t want my support.


RUHLE: Donald Trump humiliating the same guy he was campaigning for this very weekend in Ohio. JD Vance`s Senate opponent Tim Ryan has a similar take in this new political ad. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s check the stats on politician JD. Now he suddenly loves Trump, and grew a beard. That`s not fooling in this crowd.


RUHLE: The latest polls give Vance a slight lead not far from the margin of error. So let`s bring in the guy who is trying to change that and welcome Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan in his first TV interview since Saturday`s Vance rally. Congressman, that rally took place almost literally in your backyard. You want to respond.

REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): Yes, well, you know, I mean, he`s been humiliated. I think Ohio does not want an ass kisser. Ohio wins one and ask kicker and JD Vance sucked up to Peter Thiel. He got 15 million bucks for his primary campaign sucked up the Mitch McConnell got $30 million, sucked up to Trump he came in for the event, sucked up in Santa Fe came in. He`s looking for rescue squad and it`s not going to be enough to save mental out because Ohio want the fighter.

RUHLE: That rally took place at the exact same time as the OSU Toledo football game. I realized that`s not your political strategy. But could you help us understand how does Ohio take that? What`s a big priority from people from the Buckeye State?

RYAN: You know, there`s cues that happen during an election that send a signal and this just send a signal that everybody already thinks and that`s JD Vance does not understand Ohio. He said I`m not comfortable in Ohio. He would rather be in San Francisco where he spent a lot of time and that`s a cue for everybody like the book a major public rally. At the same time as an Ohio State football game just shows you don`t understand.

So we`re working hard, Steph. We`re trying to get as much support as we can. We`re asking people to go to to help us out got low dollar donor if you don`t have those big donors that he has, but he doesn`t get the state just doesn`t understand.


RUHLE: You get the state. You`re currently a lawmaker there. And there are a lot of people in Ohio who aren`t happy. They`re struggling. I know today you visited a Head Start program in Cleveland. What are parents in your home state telling you they need? What do they want right now?

RYAN: Well, they`re hurting with inflation, they`re hurting with the cost of food and gas. You could be a home health care worker, you can be a construction worker, you`re getting crushed. They need more money in their pocket. I think they need a tax cut.

But they also want the jobs of the future. That`s what we need in Ohio more than anything else. We want to build the products of the future electric vehicles, cars, trucks, batteries, solar panels, we want to tap into our natural gas industry and hydrogen to lead that industry as well. Intel came. We`re building chips, like we want hope and opportunity. And that`s what we`re building here in Ohio.

JD just wants to go back to the past. He doesn`t understand. These poo pooed the electric vehicle market, we have thousands of people working in that industry in Ohio and old factories that were closing down. And so that`s the future that we really want to build, Steph, is that the great American middle class, which has been the source of American power, and we need to get it back.

RUHLE: Then tell me a little bit more about some other folks at that rally. That was not an empty rally. Donald Trump and JD Vance filled that room. Maybe not with as many people as Trump once said a few years ago. But there are some hardcore conspiracy theorists out there who believe dangerous, dangerous things. Help me understand who that voting base is in your state and what you`re doing about are you trying to win their votes?

RYAN: I don`t think you can get certain voters who believe that the election was fraudulent and stolen. They believe in banning books. They believe in a national abortion ban. JD Vance, for example, is leading the way they don`t think there should be any exceptions for abortion even if a young girl is raped. He thinks if you`re in a violent marriage, you should be able to -- you should have to stay in that marriage.

I don`t know how you win those kinds of voters over but I will tell you that that is a very small sliver of the electorate in Ohio. There are a lot of people who voted for Trump, who are looking for someone who can help move forward, move the country forward. I`m campaigning for the exhausted majority Democrats, Republicans and independents, who want to move forward, who want to move out of the age of stupidity and into the age of possibility, an age of reform and reconciliation, an age of forgiveness so that we can be a great power again, and we`re asking again, people to go to and chip in a few bucks because we`ve got to stop these stupid fights and there are a lot of Ohioans.

And I`m telling you, Senator Rob Portman, former chief of staff has endorsed Senator Rob Portman, Republican legislative director has endorsed us. We have many two time Trump voters, especially veterans who are coming on board joining the best for Ryan crew (ph).

So we`ve got a very broad coalition here. And that`s Ohio. We`re not extremists like Rob Portman helped put the infrastructure bill together. Republican current Republican senator Ohio, JD Vance is against it. He helped put the gun control, gun safety measure together with all the mental health, JD Vance was against it. You know, these are things that are important to Ohio wins. JD is in the extreme of the extreme. And that`s why he`s not going to win the seat.

RUHLE: The way you lay it out right there if one didn`t know any better, they`d say, Man, Tim, you guys have a huge league, nobody was must begin to vote for this guy. But that`s not the case. He actually has strong support in Ohio. Who are they and why? Given what you just laid out for us. it would seem logical that he`d have much smaller support than he currently does.

RYAN: Yes, well, we`re leading in the average holding, we are leading. We`ve had polls that have had us up to 11 points, mostly between three and four points. And so, you know, I believe that we are have a slight lead in this race, but there are people who are just, you know, they`re not paying a lot of attention. They vote straight Democrat or straight Republican, and this is a slight more conservative state. So you are going to have those people.

But again, this is this is the state of John Kasich. This is the state of Mike DeWine. This is the state of Rob Portman and George Voinovich, a long line of moderate Republicans. This isn`t an extreme state, and JD is running an extreme state campaign. And he`s turning off a lot of the business community. They want stability. They want elections that matter that people aren`t going to undermine our basic democratic elections here.

Business people want stability, and JD Vance doesn`t understand the future economy. He`s given up on Ohio, Steph. He said that if you`re a 55-year-old worker in Ohio, you might as well just come to grips with the fact that you`re never going to have a good job again. Like that`s not the Ohio State fighting spirit that we have here. We built. We want to build and lead the next Industrial Age like we built the last Industrial Age, and he`s given up.


So they`re even business people are like, I don`t want an election denier. I don`t want an extremist. I don`t want someone with a tinfoil hat being in the United States Senate. I want someone like Tim Ryan.

RUHLE: All right then Tim Ryan, thank you for joining us on this Monday night. Good to see you.

RYAN: Thanks, Steph.

RUHLE: Just ahead. Could Ron DeSantis regret his role in sending immigrants from Texas to Martha`s Vineyard? Well, that when THE 11TH HOUR continues.



RUHLE: Hope you`re getting ready we are just 50 days away from the midterms and at least a dozen Republican candidates are refusing to say if they will accept the results of the election in the Washington Post survey of 19 closely watched statewide races, seven GOP nominees committed to accepting outcomes in their contests, 12 either refused to commit or declined to respond at all.

On the Democratic side, all 90 nominees said they would accept the results, whatever they are. With us for more Democratic strategist in person here at 30 Rock, Adrienne Elrod. He was also a senior aide on the Biden-Harris campaign, and former Florida Republican Congressman Carlos Curbelo, who was a member of the Republican conference for two years of Trump`s presidency.

Carlos, I need you to help me understand what is the deal with these Republicans? Not those running who are saying they won`t accept the results. But I mean, broader Republicans, right. This is the party that has always said, we`re, you know, we`ve got the CEO said, We`re pro-law enforcement, we`ve got the military. What is that part of the Republican community saying about all of these candidates who just might not elect except the election results?

CARLOS CURBELO, FORMER FLORIDA REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN: Well, people regret, Steph, that these candidates have chosen discipleship of Donald Trump over traditional conservative, and I would just say, American values with respect the rule of law, to respect our democratic institutions, to accept the rules of any game, right.

So these candidates have chosen to pray at the altar of Donald Trump to worship there. And that`s why a lot of them are struggling, Steph, because Donald Trump is about that about 33 percent favorability last time I checked, and that`s just not going to be good enough if you want to win a general election, particularly in states that some of them are swing states, some of them are perhaps a little more red than others, but you have to win a lot of centrist and even some votes from the other party to win in some of these polls.

RUHLE: That`s pretty wimpy. I`m sure Mitt Romney, I`m sure Mitch McConnell regrets that Donald Trump is still as powerful as he is. But I don`t hear any of them speaking out saying Hold on. This is our democracy at risk. So regret, that didn`t do much.

CURBELO: Well, I mean, I think Mitch McConnell and especially Mitt Romney have done their fair share of criticizing Donald Trump. I mean, you can look at the record for that. But yes, I mean, we`re getting late in the cycle. And I guess everyone`s trying to win, and people shouldn`t check their integrity at the door. But I do think that McConnell and Romney and others have made it a point to push back against some of these candidates.

RUHLE: Not so sharp a point, I`m going to have to get out my magnifying glass for all the things said about the six investigations going on around Trump, but I`ll have to look a little closer into that. How should Democrats respond to this?

ADRIENNE ELROD, FMR. SENIOR AIDE TON BIDEN-HARRIS CAMPAIGN: Well, Stephanie, I`m not trying to be dramatic here. But if this trend continues, this is going to make 2020 look like a nothing burger like a cakewalk, like a dress rehearsal. This is where authoritarian regimes will take place. This is where democracy goes to die. And the only way that we can fix this Stephanie is if we have Democrats and Republicans in corporate America coming together, and that we know that we`re not going to have the MAGA Republicans but we need to at least have conservative Republicans, the Liz Cheney`s of this world, those people out there living in America who want to protect the pillars of democracy, because Democrats cannot go out this alone.

I mean, that survey just speaks for itself. All 19 Democratic candidates said, no matter the outcome of the election, they will go with the will of the voters, half the Republicans, more than half of Republicans said that they would not that is a real problem.

So again, I`m not trying to sound overly dramatic here. But that is definitely the trend that we`re heading in. And this is going to make again, 2020 look like nothing.

RUHLE: Oh boy, Carlos, let`s talk about this political move this stunt from Ron DeSantis sending migrants to Martha`s Vineyard. Now, a Texas sheriff says he`s opened a criminal investigation into the flights. How serious is this? DeSantis thought this was going to be funny, bold, get a lot of support. Is this turning out to be a real big problem for him?

CURBELO: Yes, Steph. The more we find out about this, I think the more this was a mistake for Ron DeSantis. I think a lot of Americans have some tolerance for perhaps border state governors that are trying to move immigrants to other parts of the country. You can understand that thousands of people are coming across the border every day and that social service systems can be strained in those states law enforcement can be challenged.

So I think those people get a little bit of a pass but for Governor DeSantis to fly a plane to Texas, pick people up and take them to another state. That just didn`t make sense to a lot of people even people who don`t have strong feelings either way, you know, what I`ve heard a lot of is why is he doing that?


Why are Florida taxpayers funding this kind of operation? And now as people start questioning whether there were violations of the law, whether even Florida law and the budgetary language that that allowed for this program, if that was in some way violated, I think this could put some stumbling blocks ahead of Governor DeSantis, perhaps not for his reelection campaign, because he`s still a very strong favorite there. But certainly, as he looks to 2024, which, without a doubt, this move was a part of that 2024 Republican primary campaign.

RUHLE: Adrienne, can Democrats use this anger over DeSantis to make a case why they really should deliver why they can deliver in terms of immigration reform, because President Biden obviously hasn`t done anything as draconian as what Ron DeSantis just did. But the Biden administration hasn`t delivered much on immigration reform yet. Is this their opportunity to say, reelect us? We need to be in the majority, we`re going to do X, Y, or Z.

ELROD: Yes, absolutely. And Stephanie don`t forget that the Fifth Circuit is going to roll very soon on DACA. And that will go to the Supreme Court. We have a six-three Supreme Court that will definitely get rid of DACA resend it.

So, I think what Democrats should do is come forward and say, Hey, Republicans, if you actually want to try to work together on immigration, let`s find a way to codify DACA into law, so that we don`t have to worry about this. But no, that`s not what Republicans want. They want this to be the leading news on Fox News. They want this is the same old playbook the Republicans have used time and time again.

And what we also have to remember is to Carlos`s point this is not something that is attractive to independent voters and moderate swing voters. This may energize the MAGA Republican base, as we saw in 2018, that is not enough for Republicans to get elected that did not help Donald Trump in 2018 in the midterms, didn`t help him get elected 2020.

RUHLE: Just like Lindsey Graham`s abortion ban? What are you going to do get white evangelicals to like you even more?

ELROD: Exactly, exactly. It doesn`t. It does not make a lot of sense. I`m not quite sure what these guys are doing. But again, they are energizing a very small part of the base that they need to get to support them in the midterms. It does not do anything to coal independent voters or moderates their way. That seems to be the missing piece of this whole weird puzzle.

RUHLE: Those same exact voters aren`t just going to vote for you. They`re going to do a cartwheel into the booth when they go to.

ELROD: Exactly.

RUHLE: Adrienne Elrod, Carlos Curbelo, thank you both for joining me tonight. When we come back, we all know that Putin`s war in Ukraine is sending prices soaring. But we might be the lucky ones because the wars also causing a catastrophe you might not have heard about when THE 11TH HOUR continues.




BIDEN: Inflation rate month to month is just an inch. Hardly at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not arguing that 8.3 is good news?

BIDEN: No, I`m not saying it`s good news. But it was 8.2 or 8.2 before. I mean it`s not -- you may actually -- you make it sound like all of a sudden my god it went to 8.2 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s the highest inflation rate Mr. President in 40 year.

BIDEN: I got that. But guess what we are, we`re in a position where for the last several months, it hasn`t spiked. And it`s just barely -- it`s been basically even.


RUHLE: As the most recent inflation report showed us prices in this country are not going down anytime soon. And that is not the fault of our government. It`s partly due to Russia`s war in Ukraine. Before the invasion, Ukraine was one of the biggest exporters of grain in the world. That changed after the war began.

And while Ukraine has now begun shipping grain again, the impact is still being felt in a big way from high prices at the grocery store here in the U.S. to devastating food shortages and even fears of famine around the globe.

We`re happy to welcome David Miliband, President and CEO of the International Rescue Committee and the former Foreign Secretary for the UK.

David, this is such an important conversation because you say that the window to save hundreds of lives from famine from starvation is rapidly closing. What do we need to know?

DAVID MILIBAND, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE PRESIDETN AND CEO: That hundreds of lives, the critical thing to understand is that in Somalia, Kenya, and Ethiopia, the three countries in East Africa most exposed to long term conflict and the short term impacts both of climate crisis and of the Ukraine, a blockage on grain supplies. In those countries, 21 million people are at the wheat. What the UN says is the door of famine levels, three of four of food insecurity.

And so we`re expecting a famine declaration soon. We fear a fifth successive year of drought this winter. And so this is an emergency that the world needs to wake up to. In this area, actually, the Biden administration have made a strong start, they announced through Samantha Power and USAID just last month, a $1.1 billion commitment.

This week at the United Nations, we need other countries matching that level of commitment, because here`s almost the scariest thing. In Somalia in 2011, half the people who died, died before the famine was declared, and 260,000 people died in total. 130,000 died before the famine was declared. So we need that now.


RUHLE: Wow. If this war which appears to be in Ukraine continues, where will this go?

MILIBAND: Well, it`s an accelerant of the crisis on top of conflict, on top of the climate crisis, on top of COVID, which had such a devastating effect. You`ve now got food prices being pushed up and energy prices being pushed up. The International Rescue Committee, we run malnutrition centers in all those countries. We also see that the prices of everyday goods are going up not by 8 percent, but by 30, 40, 50 percent in markets. And so there is food there, but it can`t be accessed by the people. That`s the kind of crisis that we`re facing.

RUHLE: Let`s talk about the refugee crisis, because we`ve been talking about the situation in Ukraine for months now. More and more people are going back, give us a status update.

MILIBAND: Yes. So in Ukraine, you know that about six and a half, 7 million people left the country. There were about 10 million displaced within the country. Of the six and a half, 7 million who left and went into Europe are well treated. They`re given rights to work, get their kids into school, about 2 million have gone back, and more will go back if the war continues to go in the direction that we`ve seen over the last week, or 10 days with the Ukrainians pushing Russian forces back.

But of course, the thing to remember is that Ukraine is only the tip of the iceberg of the refugee crisis. 45 million refugees around the world, 6 million from Ukraine. And if only refugees in Ethiopia, in Uganda, in Bangladesh, from Myanmar, refugees from Syria, in Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, if only they had the levels of funding or the levels of support that Europeans have given to Ukrainians.

RUHLE: How do you start to make that happen? Because the situation in Ukraine did raise awareness, attention and got all this support? How do you now transfer that to support for these other countries?

MILIBAND: I think it`s about responsibility from the rich world to support the 85 percent of the world`s refugees who are in poor countries. It`s not America or Britain, or even Germany that has most of the world`s refugees is Pakistan. Two and a half million Afghan refugees, Bangladesh, a million refugees from Myanmar. It`s about mutual responsibility. And that`s the fundamental thing that`s missing at the moment.

RUHLE: One world a world of compassion is what we need.

MILIBAND: Thank you, Stephanie.

RUHLE: David Miliband, always, always good to see you. Thank you for joining us.

MILIBAND: Thank you so much.

RUHLE: I appreciate it. When we come back, the world says goodbye to the queen, Queen Elizabeth II, when THE 11TH HOUR continues.



RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, the final farewell. Today, the world watched as a procession fit for a queen quite literally brought Elizabeth II to her final resting place at Windsor Castle. More than 90 world leaders including President Biden and the First Lady gathered in London today as tens of thousands lined the streets to pay their respects to England`s longest serving monarch.

At the Capitol, excuse me, at the castle the Queen`s casket covered with flowers from the Queen`s many, many gardens was greeted by two of her beloved corgis, Mick and Sandy and her favorite pony, Emma. The Queen`s family, including several of her great grandchildren attended this final day of ceremonies. Today officially marked the beginning of a new era for them led by King Charles III, as NBC News correspondent Keir Simmons explains.


KEIR SIMMONS, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Nine-year-old George and seven-year-old Charlotte still figuring out when to bow and curtsy and Charlotte whispering you need to bow.

DAISY MCANDREW, NBC NEWS ROYAL COMMENTATOR: Today was very much dual purpose it was partly saying goodbye to the Queen but it was also putting the rest of the royal family center stage so that those of us thinking about the future could see with our own eyes what the future of the royal family would entail.

SIMMONS: Now King Charles looks to his own coronation next year. And there are signals he may make changes like perhaps slimming down the monarchy. As he followed his mother`s casket past Buckingham Palace where he was born, there are suggestions he might open more of it up to the public. William and Kate will play a central role. Charles breaking tradition by acting before his coronation to make his son Prince of Wales, his daughter in law, the first Princess of Wales since Princess Diana.


RUHLE: And speaking of Diana, if the necklace Princess Kate was wearing today for the funeral look familiar, there`s a very good reason for that. The choker that once belonged to the late Queen. It was also worn by Kate`s late mother in law, Princess Diana, a subtle but very meaningful tribute during today`s majestic send off a fitting ending to a 70-year long reign.

And on that extraordinary note, I wish you all a very good night. We are in for a big, big week. So it`s a good time to take a deep breath. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, I want to thank you for staying up late with us and I will see you all at the end of tomorrow.