Summary
In a prime time speech, President Biden condemned "MAGA forces" and called on Americans to fight against threats to democracy. Meantime, the judge deciding whether Trump will get a special master in the Mar-a-Lago search stopped short of issuing a ruling, but revealed a more detailed inventory of the materials seized would be made public. One-on-one interview with Maryland gubernatorial candidate Wes Moore on the upcoming elections and his Trump-backed opponent.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC ANCHOR: THE 11TH HOUR with Stephanie Ruhle starts now.
[23:01:07]
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC ANCHOR: Tonight, Julian (ph) takes on democracy as the current president calls on Americans to defend their freedoms. The former president promises his own form of justice for those found guilty of threatening free and fair elections.
Then while Joe Biden warns of MAGA forces determined to take this country backwards, some in the GOP seem to be walking back their extremist positions, plus one on one with Maryland`s Democratic nominee for governor Wes Moore, on battling inequality on what he calls the threat he faces in November, as THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on this Thursday night.
Good evening, once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle. Tonight, President Biden issued a stark warning about what he sees as the clear and present danger to American democracy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: As I stand here tonight, equality and democracy are under assault. We do ourselves no favor to pretend otherwise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: The President also wasted no time calling out his predecessor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Too much of what`s happening in our country today is not normal. Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represented extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic. Now, I want to be very clear, very clear up front. Not every Republican, not even a majority of Republicans are MAGA Republicans. Not every Republican embraces their extreme ideology. I know because I`ve been able to work with these mainstream Republicans. But there`s no question that the Republican Party today is dominated, driven and intimidated by Donald Trump and the macro Republicans. And that is a threat to this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: The President`s speech from Philadelphia`s Independence Hall came just 68 days before the midterm elections. There were also some developments today in the Justice Department`s investigation into those classified documents that were seized at Mar-a-Lago.
Lawyers for Donald Trump and the Department of Justice came face to face in a federal courtroom, arguing over Trump`s request for an independent third party or special master to review what was recovered. Our own Peter Alexander has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PETER ALEXANDER, NBC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Mr. Trump`s lawyers arguing the judge needed to help restore public confidence by allowing more transparency into the government`s actions and dismissing the investigation into the former presidents keeping highly classified documents comparing them to an overdue library book.
The Justice Department opposes an independent review of the documents saying they`ve already gone through them and acknowledging more than 500 pages may be protected by attorney-client privilege. The DOJ argues the classified documents belong to the U.S. not to Mr. Trump, quote, because he is no longer the president, he had no right to take those documents. The judge today also saying she`ll make public a more detailed list of what the FBI seized at Mr. Trump`s estate.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
RUHLE: The judge is expected to rule on the special master request in the days ahead. And tonight we learned one of Trump`s allies former White House Speaker Newt Gingrich has been invited to speak to the January 6 committee. They want to ask him about emails he sent to Trump advisors concerning misleading TV ads about the 2020 election.
And NBC News has confirmed former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone and his deputy Pat Philbin are testifying tomorrow before a federal grand jury investigating the insurrection.
Today, a retired NYPD officer received the longest sentence yet in a case related to the Capitol riot .
[23:05:00]
Thomas Webster, he now faces 10 years in prison for attacking a DC police officer with a metal flagpole.
Today Donald Trump said he is offering financial support to some of the January 6 defendants. And he also made this promise if he`s reelected.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I will look very, very favorably about full pardons. If I decide to run and if I win, I will be looking very, very strongly about pardons. Full pardons. I think that`s probably going to be the best because even if they go for two months or six months and, you know, they have sentences because last longer than that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
RUHLE: Amen. Oh boy, we`ve got questions. So let`s get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel. Carol Leonnig, Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter with The Washington Post, former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner, who has tried to hundreds of cases in his 30-year career and MSNBC Legal Analyst Katie Phang, but you know her as the host of "Katie Phang Show" weekend mornings starting at 7:00 a.m. right here on MSNBC.
Glenn, let`s talk about the President because tonight he divided MAGA Republicans and mainstream Republicans saying MAGA Republicans are not believing the rule of law. Is this the message the country needs to hear, and force Republicans hands to say which kind of Republican Are you?
GLENN KIRSCHNER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: You know, whether the country wants to hear it or not. I think it is something they need to hear. This is the reality we`re living in where, you know, the rule of law often feels like it`s hanging by a thread, whether in court or in the streets.
So, I think the President made a political calculation that he had to call it out for what it was. I mean, I hate to put it in these terms, Steph, but it almost sounds like he`s saying, Look, you have to pick a side. Are you going to be on the side of law and order? Are you going to be on the side of the Capitol police officers and the Metropolitan Police Department officers who, you know, were beaten by the MAGA crew? Or are you going to be one of the MAGA crew who assaults the officers? That`s a pretty stark comparison. And I think he Challenged America to sort of rise up, you know, the better, better angels as we always hear, and pick aside.
RUHLE: The MAGA crew isn`t changing sides. They know exactly where they are. So who is the president speaking to Katie, when he said earlier, you can`t love your country only when you win. Who`s he speaking to? And are they listening? Because that`s a pretty real statement.
KATIE PHANG, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: It`s so hard to assess whether or not people actually listening, right? Because I think the question ends up being to whom is he addressing America? Does he really think he`s going to move the needle with the people that are so, so entrenched in how they feel, but the reality is what Glenn says, you don`t want to be with people that are going to cherry pick when the rule of law works for you. You don`t want to be aligned with people that are going to say you don`t want it`s OK today to defend the FBI because you did a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago. But it`s not OK, when you`re trying to sit there and say that law enforcement has to be protected, because there was total tyranny in the streets when Democrats are running series cities.
So because of that, because of that double standard, I think Biden had to deliver the message today, which is enough of the doublespeak, enough of the double standards, pick a side, figure it out, if you`re not going to be with us peace out, find something else to do.
RUHLE: Peace out. I like that. Carol, during today`s special master hearing wonder Trump`s lawyers compare this case to one involving an overdue library book that might work on Fox News. But is that really going to work in a court of law? This ain`t no library book here.
CAROL LEONNIG, THE WASHINGTON POST INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: No, it won`t work, Steph. And I mean, I think a lot of other people have addressed this issue of who appoints judges and I know a lot of judges who are appointed by Republicans and a lot that were appointed by Democrats, and they know when you`re likely to be indicted for obstruction of justice and what and they know what probable cause is that justifies a search warrant.
The facts here are, as one expert told our reporters the other day really bad for Trump. And the facts are so clear, that government owns these records. They were patient. They asked over and over, please, at the National Archives, please, Mr. Trump, turn these records over. And when that didn`t work for a year, they then said, Please, we need them now or else we`re going to have to tell the FBI about this. Literally trying to negotiate with somebody holding on to these records.
Then when the FBI was involved and the Department of Justice, they said, Hey, guys, we have some classified records. We found in the boxes you returned, and we`re really worried there could be more. Are you sure you`ve searched everything? They got a letter back that said we`ve searched been searched and we can swear to you that in this diligent review of all the records at the President`s, forgive me, the former president`s private club, there are no more classified records.
[23:10:11]
But I mean, luckily for the U.S. public, the justice department didn`t accept that. They accepted the words of witnesses and other great investigative information that told them with a very high degree of certainty, we`re going to find more classified records here. And indeed, some of them were so serious and so sensitive, that Justice Department national security figures, couldn`t even review them because they didn`t have enough of a clearance to look at them.
RUHLE: Carol may have laid that out like a bedtime story, but listen to her words. It`s a horror film, and another Trump`s former White House Counsel, Pat Cipollone testifies before a federal grand jury, the one investigating January 6 tomorrow. And I want to share what he has already told the House Committee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT CIPOLLONE, FMR. WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: There was a real question in my mind, and a real concern, particularly after the Attorney General had reached the conclusion that there wasn`t sufficient election fraud to change the outcome of the election, when other people kept suggesting that there was. To have the federal government seize voting machines, it`s a terrible idea for the country. That`s not how we do things in the United States. There`s no legal authority to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Oh, Glenn, how much can these guys reveal tomorrow?
KIRSCHNER: You know, all sworn testimony is not created equal. We saw Cipollone testified to a congressional committee that January 6 committee, and I`m glad you played that clip. Steph, because it should remind all of us of the questions that Pat Cipollone wouldn`t answer. You remember when he would look over at his counsel? It seemed like he wanted to answer the committee`s questions, but the counsel would kind of pull him back suggested no this is an area where there might be some executive privilege. And Pat Cipollone would turn back to the examiner and say, and that`s all I can say. That`s not the way it happens in a federal grand jury, though.
In a federal grand jury when somebody asserts a privilege. If Pat Cipollone asserts executive privilege, lawyer-client privilege, or his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination, if he has one, there is a vehicle to test that in real time. The J6 Committee has no ability to test it and overcome it and compel the testimony. But a federal grand jury does.
What happens is once a privilege is invoked, and we complete the balance of the testimony, we walk over to the chief judges, courtroom or chambers. In this instance, it will be Chief Judge Beryl Howell, the chief judge of federal district court in DC, and we litigate the assertion of the privilege in real time.
And if Judge Howell says, You know what, I for example think, Donald Trump may have been involved in criminal conduct. And I`m going to say Mr. Cipollone, the crime fraud exception overrules negates the executive privilege you`re trying to invoke, I`m ordering you to testify. That gives Pat Cipollone complete legal cover to answer all of the questions that it looked like he was wanting to answer during his J6 testimony.
RUHLE: All right, let`s talk a bit more about what the former president is saying today. Katie, we aired a clip. Trump now saying on conservative media, if I run again, and if I`m elected, I will look at full pardons for the January 6 insurrectionists. Can you remind our audience, Trump was in office when January 6 happened? He could have pardoned a whole lot of them and he did nothing.
PHANG: He did nothing. And what you just said is if a lot of ifs and that if is doing a lot of heavy lifting, right?
RUHLE: OK. But there doesn`t have to be an if. Go back to January 6, he could have done it then and didn`t.
PHANG: I think about the context of what was happening back on January 6, he didn`t have any support back in January sixth with this idea that he would be OK looking like he was condoning a hundreds of people coming over to the Capitol armed, hunting down members of Congress and because of that he could not have possibly thought about doing it, maybe thought about doing it. He came out of what the optic would have been if he had addressed full pardons. Without even being able to identify who the individuals are going to be there. We`re going to get these pardons that are going to come knocking on the door and saying, oh, DOJ, guess what, you can`t prosecute me. I had a full pardon from Donald Trump, please.
I mean, it`s not realistic, but he`s doing it because he knows who he`s catering to. He wants to sit there and intimidate if not encourage non- cooperation from a slew of people, including potential defendants that were rioters that day, that were insurrectionist that day, that are potential witnesses that day, and that`s a reason why you`re seeing like he can hand it out like it`s candy.
RUHLE: All right, Carol, the January 6 Committee now let`s talk to Newt Gingrich. How does it fit into this?
[23:15:02]
LEONNIG: You know, it`s really interesting Newt Gingrich, who, you know, some people could argue started the saber tooth war between the parties. He is viewed according to the chairman of the committee, now that they have copies of his emails, as somebody who added his megaphone to the big lie about the election. He was emailing with Jared Kushner, and with former Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in December asking and offering his help to promote this idea that there was all this fraud in the election, which he knew was false, but to claim it in television ads and in scripts, and to people that he could reach out to in the conservative movement.
The worry about this is he said this just before December 14 that when state electors were going to be certified, and he was trying to basically bounce state electors and get a new raft inserted illegally, so that they could reject the results in certain keys wing states, you know, when that effort to cease voting machines, and rerun the election didn`t work the idea was let`s just get rid of the electors who certified this information.
What`s also really interesting to me stuff is that Newt Gingrich is identified in emails as having said that what we really need to do is arouse the anger in the American people. I mean, what else do you have to say about lighting a match before January 6, because that`s what he did.
RUHLE: They were certainly aroused. Carol Leonnig, good to see you. Glenn Kirschner, Katie Phang, great to see you here in New York in person. When we come back, more of the president accusing MAGA forces of trying to take our country backwards. Symone Sanders and Tim Miller are here.
And later, my one on one interview with the Democratic candidate for Maryland, Governor Wes Moore on his trump backed opponent and what is at stake for the people in his state. And what it says about the state of democracy. 11th Hour just getting underway this Thursday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:21:09]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: MAGA Republicans look at Americans seek carnage and darkness and despair. They spread fear and lies, lies tool for profit and power. But I see a different America and America with unlimited future. An America that is about to take off. I hope you see it as well just look around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: More of President Biden`s fiery primetime address tonight on what he calls the battle for the soul of the nation. He condemned MAGA forces for trying to take the country backwards and called for Americans to defend and protect democracy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I will not stand by and watch. I will not the will of the American people be overturned by wild conspiracy theories and baseless evidence reclaims and fraud. I will not stand by and watch elections in this country stolen by people who simply refused to accept that they lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Back with us tonight two of our faves Symone Sanders-Townsend, former chief spokesperson for vice president Harris and host of the show Symone on Peacock and MSNBC. And Tim Miller is here with his pearls on, contributor to The Bulwark and former communications director for Jeb Bush. He wrote the new must read book, "Why We Did It."
Symone, you worked in this White House. You`ve said on this show before this administration needs to tell it to the people straight and get aggressive about it. Is that what the President did tonight?
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND, FORMER CHIEF SPOKESPERSON FOR VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS: I think that`s absolutely what the president did tonight. I had Jen O`Malley Dillon on my show last week. And I said, you know is this Joe Biden that we`re seeing post his first speech, his campaign speech in Maryland, the Joe Biden we can expect going forward. And she said to me, Symone, as you know, the Joe Biden that you`re seeing is the Joe Biden that`s always been here. I worked on the campaign for then Vice President Biden.
And when I spoke to him about why he wanted to run for president, before I signed on, he told me and made this case me about the battle for the soul of this nation. I believe what we heard from the President tonight was not a campaign speech, but he feels very viscerally and very deeply that in fact, we are at a similar place. FBI agents losing their lives under threat, OK. We`ve got election deniers who are running and winning. This is a five alarm fire and President Joe Biden just rang the bell.
RUHLE: Rang the bell. Tim, would you call this a presidential speech? Because after the speech, I keep hearing, oh, that was political. It was a campaign speech. He broke from norms standing in front of Marines. Didn`t we break from norms years ago. Former President Trump`s inauguration speak about death and destruction? Former President Trump who`s currently not accepting the 2020 results saying he should be reinstated, saying he will pardon insurrectionists. So what are we saying tonight broke from norms. We had been normal in years.
TIM MILLER: THE BULWARK CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I don`t have a ton of patience for the pearl clutching pun intended about norms after four years of Donald Trump where he literally held his convention on the White House lawn. So, you know, I think that we`ve been down this road before.
I thought and I think that by comparison what President Biden did tonight when he`s -- what he talked about was both true and important as compared to you know, Kevin McCarthy`s pre-buttle speech and Donald Trump`s truths or whatever they`re called down in Mar-a-Lago which were filled with lies and conspiracy conjecture.
I do, I guess if I was to nitpick one thing about the speech tonight is I`m not really sure what the point was, like, politically speaking. I think it was a lot of fan service. I think that folks who are highly engaged, democratic partisans are watching cable news on Thursday night in the summertime probably really liked it, because it was true and it spoke to their concerns and worries.
[23:25:00]
I`m not sure it spoke to, you know, the concern to people who do not agree that we`re in a five alarm fire like I think we`re in a five alarm fire but you kind of can`t just say, hey, there`s a five alarm fire, you have to persuade people about the risks and about the threats. And I just I didn`t see a ton of that tonight.
RUHLE: So you`re saying what was the point? What`s the downside and giving that speech, then Tim?
MILLER: I don`t think there was a downside. Like I said it was factual. I think it was fine. I think that he it was something that he wanted to say and that his fans wanted to say. I think if you looked at social media, the people -- there are a lot of people out there who are saying I`ve been clamoring for him to do that. But they were all people who are highly socially engaged Democrats.
So I think it`s OK. It`s not really a criticism except to say, you know, if democracy is really in threat, like the job of him is to try to you did a nice job tonight of carving off conservative Republicans for MAGA Republicans. OK.
Well, the next step is how do you convince and persuade some of those conservative Republicans who are not MAGA Republicans to come into the fold and say, this is such a threat. We need you and give an olive branch to them. There wasn`t that tonight. And maybe that`s still to come.
RUHLE: Well, I don`t know. Maybe he`s calling Republicans out, Symone. May be the next step is for all of those Republicans, they will be called to task, they will be asked are you a MAGA Republican? Who is denying the election? Who is supporting insurrectionists? Who continues to push the big lie? Or are you someone representing your state your country and trying to get a job done? Isn`t this just step one, because now those Republicans are gong to have to answer Joe Biden`s question which kind of Republican are you?
SANDERS-TOWNSEND: You know, yes, Steph. I think he`s one starting a conversation, but two, continuing on a path that the President has already gone down. The coalition that propelled Joe Biden to the White House to President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris was a coalition of base Democratic voters, black voters, Latino voters, independent voters, and some conservative Republicans.
There are, you know, Republicans who have been Republicans for a long time, but they don`t believe or subscribe to them extremism of Trumpism. That was Joe Biden`s coalition. It was a uniquely Biden coalition. That is who he was speaking to tonight.
I would also note that as the president of United States, it is important to speak truth to power, whether everyone hears you or no one hears you and I think what we heard from President Biden tonight, is just the truth. There was no both sides of them. There was no pontificating or trying to walk a line. He is calling it like it is. And this is something that he`s done before. He did it on the campaign trail a number of times, quite notably when he gave a speech about white supremacy in Iowa.
So look, I think that this is a continuation of something that the President has done before. And he`s trying to speak to those people that made up his coalition, but also Americans across the board, because he really feels as though that this is a moment that requires everyone is everyone`s attention, regardless of you know, what your political party might be.
RUHLE: Tim, does it elevate Trump? Or does it hurt him that the President called him out by name tonight? Because you know, he thinks all attention is good attention?
MILLER: Yeah, I don`t think that President Biden should really concern himself with that, it`s hard to predict what`s the -- what the impact is going to be. And frankly, what Joe Biden says, what we say on MSNBC is not going to matter as far as whether Donald Trump is elevated. The people who matter are people who have tuned out Joe Biden. It`s those MAGA Republicans that he was talking about if people don`t want to Donald Trump to overturn the election successfully. And so will those people move on or not?
RUHLE: Hold on.
SANDERS-TOWNSEND I think you matter. I think it matters.
RUHLE: but it`s not just is he going to convince MAGA Republicans, he`s not. It`s -- Is he going to fire up unengaged Americans? There are an awful lot of people across this country who don`t care about politics, who don`t think about the threat to democracy, and maybe he`s talking to those apolitical people saying you need to care.
MILLER: I hope so.
RUHLE: Time.
MILLER: And I think that that`s important. And I hope that that`s something that he keeps doing. And yes, I think that`s a separate question, then the Trump power question, right? Trump`s power emanates from the mega base, right. And as long as the mega base is with him, Trump is going to be powerful within the party. Joe Biden doesn`t have control over that. All he can do is try to marshal a group of people to defeat Donald Trump.
And I think that this speech is a part of a long, it`s known has been saying, you know, a long held effort to try to build a coalition to do that. And he did build a coalition to do that in 2020. And now he`s got to build it more.
RUHLE: All right, I`m not letting either one of you leave. Symone and Tim, we`ll be back right after the break. And when we return to truth matters. Republicans in key races are trying to scrub their websites of extreme anti-abortion policies that they`ve been backing. But our friend PoliticsGirl has a reality check. When THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:30:32]
RUHLE: American voters might be experiencing some political whiplash these days after months of campaigning against abortion rights. Some Republican candidates are now trying to pretend that they never did that. Several like Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters are scrubbing abortion policies from their websites. And this might be why, polls are now showing most Americans are very much in favor of reproductive rights.
[23:35:01]
And for facts sake, nobody has that short of memory, especially not when it comes to political life saving health care. And as we like to say, the truth matters, but only if you see it. And our friend PoliticsGirl is delivering some real truth right here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some Republican lawmakers are trying to walk back their positions on abortion now that they`re noticing it`s an absolutely losing issue with the majority of the American public. But we see you. We heard you. You`ve already dined out and crowed and celebrated, no abortions, no exceptions. You can walk back those positions all you want, we see you and we will be voting accordingly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: So with us to discuss Symone Sanders-Townsend and Tim Miller. Symore, why are they doing this? Republicans campaigned on this. They want these restrictive abortion laws. Why are they suddenly pivoting?
SANDERS-TOWNSEND: I have to laugh staff because do they think the voters are stupid? Voters are very sophisticated, particularly the voters right now in 2022. They can read, they can write, they can Google, they can check the Twitter accounts. And it is all right there.
I think I do it because it is not popular. And to be clear, it didn`t just become unpopular after their primaries. This is the positions that these Republican candidates took had been wildly unpopular from the beginning of Roe consistently polled over 65 percent and the average in all of these polls.
Right now, what we know to be true, though, is that women are being jailed, could potentially be jailed. Doctors could potentially be jailed, fined thousands of dollars a bill just pass in Texas. That is not what Republicans quote unquote, ran on, but it`s what`s happening across the country and nobody likes it.
RUHLE: Tim, regardless of your stance on abortion, the inconsistency is not a good look. I mean, Roe getting overturned was just a couple of months ago, do Republicans actually think they can snooker voters here?
MILLER: Yes, I have to slightly disagree with my friend Symone one more time on this one because I do think that Blake Patrick Bateman Masters (ph) does think voters are stupid. I`m pretty sure that that is kind of the central element of his campaign. It doesn`t realize that the Wayback Machine existed. I think his quote was that he sees his policy pages as a living document, a living document. I mean, this guy, I don`t know, Steph. It`s pretty presumptuous.
But yes, look, in a swing state like Arizona, this is not popular. We saw an advert in Kansas and again, (INAUDIBLE) whatever your stance on abortion, it`s important to understand there are a lot of voters out there who have mixed views on abortion, maybe they don`t support completely no restrictions. But they certainly don`t support a ban at one week with no exceptions, which was what Masters original position was. That`s like a 10 percent issue, only the most extreme people support it.
And so he looked at what happened in Kansas and thought, man, if it`s a 60 percent issue against me in Kansas, think about what it is at a swing state like Arizona 70, 75 percent issue. So he`s trying desperately to fix it, but it`s pretty ham handed.
RUHLE: But why does it have to be desperate now, Symone, these polling numbers aren`t new. We all knew this three months ago, six months ago, nine months ago, why are Republicans suddenly surprised and trying to pivot?
SANDERS-TOWNSEND: Look, I think they were trying to win a primary. I mean, Tim knows this better than anyone and I -- we say it on the Democratic side of the aisle, right. Oftentimes, the primary, it is the person who could be the most progressive, depending on what the district is. And that is what I think we saw in Arizona. Blake Masters was running in a Republican primary trying to capture Republican voters and folks that come out in the off year election, a midterm election, these are base voters. And for a lot of them, I think the positions that Blake Masters was taking was popular.
I think the reality though, is when you pull back the layer, even people who do not personally believe in abortion do not think women or doctors should be jailed or fined. Do not think citizens should be spying on their neighbors to report them to the authorities about whether or not their miscarriage was really an abortion. And that is what is happening in this country.
People need to be vigilant. This is not hyperbole, it`s real. And that is an extreme position that no one thinks should be the reality but because that is what the reality of the policies many of these Republicans have put forward. They`re running away from it because they can`t defend it. It`s indefensible.
RUHLE: 68 days to go before the midterms and you`re trying to erase the policies you`ve been supporting. That`s a tough plot. Tim Miller, Symone Sanders-Townsend, great to see you both. I absolutely love having you here. And remember, you can watch Symone on Peacock and MSNBC. You do not want to miss her.
Coming up next, a one on one interview with one or only Wes Moore with a Democrat who is hoping to be Maryland`s next governor says about the most extreme parts of the GOP parts the President was just warning us about. Wes, he`s running against that in Maryland. We`ll dig in when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:40:29]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You call the winner in that Republican gubernatorial primary Dan Cox a QAnon whack job and a nut.
GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R) MARYLAND: This guy should not be the nominee, shouldn`t be governor. But I`m not getting involved in endorsing in the race. But this is not just Maryland. This is happening across the country.
DAN COX, REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR MARYLAND GOVERNOR: He`s talking about things that are absolutely false, defamatory, slanderous, it`s all he knows what to do, apparently because he`s still upset that we trounced him and his candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: As you just heard the split The Republican Party is on display in the Maryland governor`s race.
[23:45:)4]
Current Republican governor who you saw right there Larry Hogan has made it abundantly clear he will not support his party`s nominee for the office. And lately, some Republicans, like Maryland`s Trump endorsed Dan Cox who easily won his primary are getting a run from their money from Democratic opponents like Wes Moore. I had a chance to speak with more a few days ago about his campaign, and what it will take for Democrats to win not just in Maryland, but across the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
WES MOORE, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDTE FOR MARYLAND GOVERNOR: I look at Maryland in many ways people call it American miniature. Right. We also know that so many of the challenges that you see around the country are right here in the state of Maryland, we could have some of the best medical institutions in the world right here in the state of Maryland. And you people who live down the street from them, who can`t afford basic care.
RUHLE: Why? Why is this state even the city of Baltimore divided like that?
MOORE: I think you have to be intentional about inclusiveness. And you have to be intentional about not leaving people behind?
RUHLE: Those are fancy words, how would you solve it?
MOORE: You know, when I think about the work that we`re able to do when I ran one of the largest poverty fighting organizations in this country, you know, the work that we were able to do is say that our policies need to actually reflect our values and means creating an education system that is not leaving children behind or having when they leave high school, that they`re not prepared for the jobs of now, or for the jobs of the future.
RUHLE: Crime is an issue in Maryland, specifically in Baltimore, and across the country, you are seeing more and more voters put crime as their number one issue. This city that we`re in has had 200 murders this year, that`s basically a person dying every day. How are you going to solve for that?
MOORE: Well, I can tell you the issue of crime is not just important as person I am, I`m a very proud Baltimorean. It`s also something that the city alone should not have to wrestle with. This is where partnership matters. You can take the resources, put them on loan to the city of Baltimore to be able to help address that investing in the violence intervention programs like Safe Streets, and We Our Us. These are programs that the data shows and are proven to work. And right now they are underfunded, undervalued, and we have to change that from day one.
RUHLE: How do you feel then, about the term defund the police? Because it`s put a brand on Democrats that doesn`t align with what you`re talking about?
MOORE: I don`t think that the answer is, is defund the police because I think defund the police is more of a slogan than a strategy. Right? The strategy that we have is just fundamentally going back to the idea that everybody has a right to feel safe in their own communities. And they want to know that if something happens, and they call on law enforcement to be able to protect them that that is going to be that the response is going to be quick. And the responses can be supportive. That`s all communities are asking for. And that`s not a Republican issue, nor a Democratic issue.
RUHLE: Right around this time last year, you and I spoke, it`s why I wanted to talk to you today. You were the first person I interviewed on TV when the U.S. pulled out of Afghanistan. Where are you on this now that we`re you`re out?
MOORE: It`s still painful. It`s painful, because it`s personal. I think the decision to withdraw was the right one. And, frankly, it was just an overdue one. And I`m glad is one of the first things that the administration put into place.
The thing that I we also have to consistently remind the American people is that just because people made it home does not mean the support ends there. You know, thank you for your service cannot be the end of a conversation all the time. Thank you for your service --
RUHLE: Should just get 10 percent off at Denny`s.
MOORE: There you go. It shouldn`t just be you know what, I`ll buy this person coffee when I see someone in uniform at a coffee shop. Right? Thank you for your service actually has to mean something. We have people who when our country asked them to serve. They didn`t ask the country to wait. And so when they come back home for them in their families, our nation should not be asking us and our families to wait on your promises.
RUHLE: You are running against somebody who`s not looking for unity in any way. Dan Cox is an election denier. He has come out and said he would look to have Maryland state police go after Joe Biden for the lawful Mar-a-Lago search. How do you respond to that?
MOORE: I respond by first making sure that people know who our opponent is November. And I`m very clear, you know, I don`t have an opponent in November. This is a threat. This is someone who asked for Mike Pence to be hung because he`s certified in election. You know, this is a person who the current governor who`s a Republican, when asked would you support my opponent? His response was, I think he`s mentally unstable. And I would not give him a tour of the governor`s office, let alone do I want him to be the next governor.
RUHLE: Wes, I did a double take in the last week when I heard the current Republican governor say those things about your opponent.
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He has said he`s QAnon crazy. And then over the weekend I`m looking. And I see Wes Moore at an event with Larry Hogan. Are you seeking his endorsement? Because if you got the Republican endorsement from the Governor, that would be enormous, not just for you in the state, but a statement to this country.
MOORE: I want to be very clear that I would love his support and the support of anybody.
RUHLE: Have you asked him for it?
MOORE: I have not asked him for his official endorsement yet.
RUHLE: Why not?
MOORE: You guys should know. No, I would love the governor support. Because I`d love the support of anybody who believes that our vision and our values are better reflective of the vision and the values for the state of Maryland, then of then my opponent.
RUHLE: But here`s the thing, Governor Hogan did endorse a Republican primary candidate, and Dan Cox beat them handily. What does that tell you about the Republican voter in this state?
MOORE: I believe that Republicans need to be able to hear what the alternative actually is. You know, when we`re going all around the state, and people are telling us, you know, you`re going to a lot of places that there`s not a lot of Democrats. My answer is yes, but there`s a lot of Marylanders. And I plan on being their governor too.
RUHLE: Do Marylanders realize they could elect somebody who could really hurt abortion access something people in Maryland, or check people in New York we take for granted.
MOORE: Yes, I`m running against an opponent who the day after the Supreme Court robbed millions of women of health care. His response was to praise Donald Trump and praise the Supreme Court and then said he would double down by essentially criminalizing all abortions, even in the case of incest and rape. That`s my opponent in November.
RUHLE: The latest move from the Supreme Court is scary. Irrelevant of how you feel about abortion rights. This is the first time we`ve seen the Supreme Court stretch things away. What does that tell you about where we are?
MOORE: What it tells us is we have to remember that that progress is not guaranteed. You got to fight. Every day we have to fight for what makes this country so beautiful and so important. And what makes it worth fighting for time alone and duration does not make progress. It`s hard work. It`s determination. And it`s being assertive about what our values are and standing up for our values. That`s what makes progress.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
RUHLE: My thanks for Was Moore for that conversation. Apologies for all those dogs in the background. I was in their neighborhood. There was a dog hotel right next door. I should also mention we extended an invitation to candidate Dan Cox. He has not taken us up on that invite yet but that invitation is open. And to see the rest of my interview with Wes Moore, just head over to MSNBC`s YouTube channel for more.
Coming up next, it is back to the classroom after a summer of devastating conflict. We`re going to check in with the children of Ukraine when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, Ukrainian strong, kids all over the world are heading back to school this week and in war torn Ukraine. The conflict has not stopped determine young people from getting their education. Ukrainian authorities say since the war began, more than 2,000 educational institutions have been damaged from bombing and shelling. 225 completely destroyed.
AP photographer Emilio Morenatti spent time with some students who used to go to one of those shattered schools. He captured powerful images of them returning to the ruins and he asked them for their reactions.
Sitting in his old school chair, 13-year-old Oleksandr (ph) says when I`m in my classroom, I think about how much I want this war to end. 13-year-old Anastasia stands in the rubble of her former classroom and says I wanted to graduate here. This school feels native to me. Returning to where his former desk once was 13-year-old Oleski (ph) said it`s like a dream. I have never seen something like this. It cannot be reality. And that right there is 16-year-old Christina, standing at her desk in what`s left of her former classroom. She says what happened is a tragedy. I already cried out about everything I lost. I miss my school, my friends and teachers. But there will be a new school, new teachers and friends. The most important thing is that life goes on.
There are so, so many in Ukraine right now determined to make sure that indeed life does go on. And then a new NBC News now special called A Mother`s War. Our foreign correspondent Molly Hunter and her team crossed the entire country meeting women fighting their own remarkable ways. Here`s just some of what they had to say.
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A Mother`s War is a must see, and it is available tomorrow on YouTube.
And on that note, I wish all of you a very good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, thanks for staying up late with us. I will see you at the end of tomorrow.