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Transcript: The 11th Hour with Stephanie Ruhle, 5/12/22

Guests: Luke Broadwater, Ashley Parker, Tali Farhadian Weinstein, Ben Rhodes, Barry McCaffrey, Zack Canepari, Erica Fink

Summary

The House Committee on Thursday subpoenaed four representatives who refused to voluntarily testify before Congress. A shortage of baby formula, which began in the early days of the pandemic, has worsened because of labor shortages and a major product recall. American crime writer Don Winslow says he is retiring to dedicate his time to fighting Trumpism and help save democracy. A massive sell-off in cryptocurrencies wiped over $200 billion of wealth from the market in just 24 hours.

Transcript

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATTI LUPONE, AMERICAN ACTRESS: Who do you think you are if you do not respect the people that are sitting around you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I pay your salary.

LUPONE: You pay my salary. Bullshit. Chris Harper pays my salary. Who do you think you are? Just put your mask on your nose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Chris Harper, the producer of company issued a statement fully supportive of his Tony nominated star and you can support Patti LuPone by buying tickets to company at the Bernard Jacobs Theater. Patty LuPone has been receiving standing ovations today from people all over the world, standing in front of their computers watching that video people who love the theater and will always love Patti LuPone.

Patti LuPone gets tonight`s "LAST WORD." THE 11TH HOUR with Stephanie Ruhle starts now.

STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Tonight, an unprecedented move from the January 6 committee, subpoenas issued to five of their own including the House`s top Republican, but is it all too little too late.

And escalating threats from the Kremlin as one of Russia`s neighbors pushes to join NATO what it all could mean for the war in Ukraine.

Plus, the inside story of last year`s GameStop surge. We preview the new MSNBC documentary on how real life players took on Wall Street as THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on this Thursday night.

Good evening. Once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle, 180 days from the midterm elections. And just hours ago the January 6 committee did something never done before. Less than a month before public hearings on the investigation the committee today issued subpoenas to their own House colleagues requesting they come and testify about the insurrection.

The five subpoenaed Republicans include caucus Leader Kevin McCarthy, Andy Biggs of Arizona, Mo Brooks of Alabama, Jim Jordan of Ohio, and Scott Perry of Pennsylvania. All are staunch allies of former President Trump and all refuse to comply with earlier requests and invites from the committee to appear voluntarily.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): To people who were involved in discussions with the President, they were in communication with the White House staff on January 6 leading up to it some were involved in the effort to overturn the election. Some spoke at the rally before the attack. One has said publicly that the President called him to rescind the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: The Committee wants to talk to McCarthy about his heated call with Trump during the riot. Investigators want to know what Biggs knows about the stop the steal efforts. They hope Brooks can tell them more about Trump`s ongoing claims that he`d be returned to the White House. He is the one who urged people to quote, kick ass and take names at the rally just before the riot.

The committee also wants to ask Jordan about plans to overturn the election and to question Perry about the plot to replace the acting U.S. Attorney General. All across the board, they want to ask about how they`re pushing the big lie. It`s very important to note Kevin McCarthy has been heard on tape talking about how to get Trump out of office shortly after the riot. He then ran off to Mar-a-Lago and made up with Trump.

Today, McCarthy was on the Hill fielding questions about these new subpoenas. He and a few other Republican targets were defiant and dismissive.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA) MINORITY LEADER: My view on the committee has not changed. They`re not conducting a legitimate investigation. It seems as though they just want to go after their political opponents.

REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): The fact that they sent it to the press before they sent it to the members is just proff it`s all about headlines. This whole thing`s a charade.

REP. ANDY BIGGS (R-AZ): I think this is an illegitimate committee that and they don`t really have the authority to issue subpoenas in my opinion, so we don`t want to dignify what they`re doing. This has been a witch hunt from day one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: In my opinion, several federal judges have already ruled on the committee`s legitimacy. And today, the chairman and his colleagues made it very clear they have the right to resort to subpoenas.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): I think the committee believes that we have that authority, and we felt comfortable enough that now was the time to do it.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): I have every reason to believe that people receiving subpoenas today will comply with their legal duty and I would say moral duty to cooperate with an investigation into an attack on Congress.

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Yes, we have information from other sources that lead us to believe that each one of these individuals who are our colleagues have information the committee needs to tell the full story.

NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Could there be more subpoenas for other are members of the House senators Senate?

LOFGREN: It`s possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:05:07]

RUHLE: Well, Trump`s allies in Congress are battling January 6 investigators. He himself may now have another legal fight on his hands. This one concerns those classified White House records that ended up guess where Mar-a-Lago. The New York Times reporting federal prosecutors have begun a grand jury investigation into whether those records were mishandled. Authorities are also asking for interviews with former Trump White House aides.

With that let`s bring in our experts Ashley Parker, a Pulitzer Prize winning White House bureau chief for The Washington Post. She has added another Pulitzer at her arsenal this week for her team`s coverage of the January 6 riot. Congratulations, Ashley. We also have with us Luke Broadwater, congressional reporter for the New York Times, and my dear friend Tali Farhadian Weinstein, a former federal and state prosecutor here in New York. She clerked for Merrick Garland, and Justice Sandra Day O`Connor.

It is 11:00 p.m., I am going to try to stay as calm as I possibly can. But I warn you all, I`m pretty fired up. When I hear Jamie Raskin say he fully believes that they will fulfill their moral duties and comply with these subpoenas. I`m not sure why he thinks that based on what we`ve seen for the last four years, but let`s get to it.

Luke, serving subpoenas to your colleagues in Congress. Many people have been asking for this for months. But it`s a huge undertaking and a huge risk. Why do it now?

LUKE BROADWATER, THE NEW YORK TIMES CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, they`re really out of other options. The January 6 committee is coming up on some an important set of hearings in June. And there`s a key avenue of the investigation, which is basically left unexplored, and that is the role members of Congress played.

Now they have information from other sources, they`ve been able to compile a record of what some of these members of Congress did. But so far, every single letter that this committee has sent to a Republican member of Congress has been rebuffed. No one has been willing to come in voluntarily. And so there was a lot of debate internally on this committee about how they should approach this, how they can get people to come in, they did not want to have to issue subpoenas

But they really feel like they have no other choice at this point, that the only chance they have for getting any Republican in Congress to come forward and testify about what they know about January 6 is to issue a subpoena.

And you`re right, it is unprecedented outside of the ethics committee, at least in modern history, for there to be a subpoena of a sitting member of Congress by a congressional committee. But I would also note that it is unusual also for members of Congress to fight an investigation and not want to come in.

Now if you look at some of the previous investigations carried out by Republicans, Democrats did participate with those investigations. I mean, Hillary Clinton famously sat for something like 18 hours of the Benghazi hearings, and I`m sure she didn`t think that that was a totally aboveboard investigation. So yes, we are in unprecedented times.

RUHLE: Which we have been for years now. So let`s start running the clock because, Ashley, Axios is reporting that if Republicans take the House next year, essentially this year, that the committee should be prepared for removals, retaliatory subpoenas and even impeachment, what is at stake? If these congress people run the clock, they don`t ever testify. And then Republicans take the house, then what happens?

ASHLEY PARKER, THE WASHINGTON POST WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF: Well, it`s just in some ways as Axios reported and this was one of the concerns that when you take an unprecedented step to subpoena your colleagues, there is a belief among Democrats that they will probably lose the House and the issues that Republicans and former President Trump have long been hammering, like Joe Biden`s son Hunter and his business dealings, and his laptops will be totally fair game in their eyes for investigations, for subpoenas, and also that it sets a precedent if, you know, if Republicans don`t show up in this case, then what the Democrats do when they`re subpoenaed. If Republicans show up and simply stonewall and are not particularly helpful, is that what Democrats then do when the table as are turned?

And finally, you saw a lot of these January 6 House members today asking what next? You know, what if they don`t show up for their testimony? Will they hold them in contempt, which would be even more unprecedented for a sitting member of Congress than even issuing subpoenas?

So there`s going to be a bar and a precedent that here, the red line drawn that members of both parties will remember going forward.

RUHLE: Precedents matters-ish. It didn`t matter for four years during the Trump administration when people set their hair on fire day in and day out. And then Trump basically face no consequences.

So Tali, when you look at the clock hear, the midterms are only 180 days away. Tell me once you`re served a subpoena, when do you actually have to sit? Do you have to?

[23:10:08]

TALI FARHADIAN WEINSTEIN, FORMER NY FEDERAL AND STATE PROSECUTOR: Well, the question is do you have to really depends, I think we`re learning on where the subpoena comes from because the defiance of the January 6 committee`s just becoming a regular fact of life. This is totally unprecedented. And I think it`s really showing us that our constitutional system is really not equipped to deal with this kind of intra party, intra branch fighting the calling of each other`s bluffs, and that these subpoenas may, in fact, never be answered, and may actually spotlight the difference between a congressional subpoena and a subpoena from DOJ.

RUHLE: Then doesn`t it reveal that congressional oversight has no teeth?

WEINSTEIN: Well, there are a lot of questions here, Stephanie. But one thing that seems for sure to me is that the actions of these Republican Congressmen are destroying the ability of Congress to bring Congressional investigations because if you can just say, Well, I just don`t think that`s a legitimate investigation. Then, just as you say, it kind of does defang the entire thing.

RUHLE: I want to play a clip of what committee member Zoe Lofgren said earlier to our colleague, Nicolle Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Has a committee ruled out criminal referrals from members of Congress?

LOFGREN: Well, we haven`t discussed any of that. Right now we want to hear from them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: Luke, let`s get real. They`re not going to hear from them. We are talking not just about a political party, but a specific group of Republicans whose signature is owning the libs. None of us could sit down and get an interview and honest interview with any of those sitting Republicans right now they wouldn`t. It`s not in their agenda.

So are Democrats being naive with this idea? You know, we think they`re going to do the right thing. We`re anxious to hear from them. We`re not going to hear from them.

BROADWATER: Yes, I noticed every single member of the committee today had the same talking point, which was they did not want to talk about what`s the logical next step if the members of Congress refused to participate. And that is a contempt referral, which does carry jail time and a heavy fine. And they`ve used it against four different potential witnesses already, including a former member of the House, Mark Meadows.

So, they`ve been very reluctant to say that that`s where this could potentially go. And maybe they won`t ever take that step. But that is the threat that`s hanging over someone`s head, when you issue a subpoena. If you talk to some of the witnesses that have gone before the January 6 committee that did not want to go, they all say I didn`t have 10 to -- $10,000 or $100,000. I don`t have enough money to fight a criminal charge. So I went and I testified and I gave them whatever emails and texts I had. And that was that.

And so that same threat now does exist to the members of Congress who are who have received these subpoenas.

Now, they have a little bit of a better argument than just a random witness, because there are certain protections in the constitution for members of Congress, especially for hauling them into court over their official actions.

But a lot of these things that they participated in were not official actions. And it`s hard to see how necessarily the protections in the Speech and Debate Clause would protect those. So I do think if it comes to it, we could be facing a showdown here. If these Republican members of Congress do not show up for their depositions,

RUHLE: I want to quickly change this subject before we run out of time. Ashley, you have been covering this baby formula shortage. It is a scary and confusing situation. We`re going to dig into it tomorrow night. But for now, the White House is discussing it, what are they saying they could potentially do.

PARKER: So today, they unveiled a couple of different steps that they plan to take. One is increasing importance of baby formula right now about 90 percent is produced in the United States. Another is directing state attorneys general and the FTC to deal with price gouging on the formula market, people who sort of recognize the fear of parents with young children, buy that formula, and then try to charge it for an incredible upsell.

And the third thing they rolled out was taking sort of federal, this federal assistance program known as WIC, which allows people to buys women and children to buy certain products, including formula and easing some of the restrictions and cutting some of that bureaucratic red tape to allow them to do that more easily.

RUHLE: Tali, the Department of Justice is also investigating Trump`s handling of sensitive records from the White House. How big of a deal is this? You know, we`re hearing Trump could be questioned people in his way As could be questioned but a lot of questions or requests for questions are already out there for months on an assortment of topics.

[23:15:08]

WEINSTEIN: Yes, well, Stephanie, it`s -- it would have been unthinkable for the department not to investigate this. The department typically investigates the mishandling of classified information, not necessarily to bring criminal charges, but just to figure out what we exposed to when this material was mishandled.

But I think that it`s possible that there`s more to it here. For one, I think it`s just implausible for anyone who was involved in the mishandling of these boxes to say that they didn`t know. And prosecutors would have to prove that they knew that the law was you can`t move this stuff around.

And you know, in my experience around classified documents, you`re told all the time, regularly and routinely what the rules are. And I`ll tell you on my mind is a prosecution from just a few months ago in February, by the U.S. Attorney in Hawaii, against a young woman who took some classified documents to her hotel room, apparently, so she could work on them at night and she was prosecuted. She was sent to prison. And the U.S. Attorney said, it doesn`t matter if your motives were benign. If you knew that you weren`t supposed to do that, it`s really important that we enforce the law that keeps this material safe.

RUHLE: All right, then Tali Farhadian Weinstein, Ashley Parker, Luke Broadwater, thank you all for starting us off tonight. When we come back, he has been posting angry, angry comments about these new subpoenas to members of Congress, author turned activist Don Winslow on his angry pivot to politics.

And later, how seriously should we take the saber rattling from Russia? Now that one of its neighbors is eager to join NATO. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on this Thursday night, with flags flying at half-staff to remember the 1 million gone from COVID tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:21:40]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOFGREN: The threat to our system of government was very large. And we need to hear from all of the parties who have information so we can get the complete picture so we can protect our country going forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: The question is will we ever actually hear from all the parties. Kevin McCarthy and the four other House Republicans are supposed to appear before the end of the month. But one New York Times bestselling author turned activist made it very clear today. He ain`t holding his breath.

We welcome to the show this evening, Don Winslow. His latest book "City on Fire" the first in a new trilogy. But it will be his last series. He`s retiring from writing to focus on one thing, political activism.

Don, welcome. You, my friend, are not shy about your frustration with the January 6 committee. Today, you posted this after 16 month, the January 6 committee finally subpoenaed Kevin McCarthy, Jim Jordan and three more, but it doesn`t matter. It`s too late. Hearings are next month. McCarthy already said he would not cooperate. This is all theater. None of these people will ever testify on TV or under oath.

I get it. You`re mad.

DON WINSLOW, "CITY OF FIRE" AUTHOR: I`m mad.

RUHLE: What should the committee have done differently?

WINSLOW: Well started much earlier. It took six months to form this committee. It took one week after the John Kennedy Assassination to form that committee. They should have issued subpoenas immediately, instead of issuing invitations. What`s an invitation? What is a courtesy meeting? Why are we bringing people in behind closed doors and telling them or asking them, please talk to us, please talk to us when we saw them committing crimes. It`s ridiculous.

Now we`re 16 months into this thing. And we`re just now issuing subpoenas. How are we going to enforce these subpoenas, Stephanie?

RUHLE: So do you think Republic, excuse me, Democrats are being naive when they talk about moral obligations. In that last segment, I heard the word unprecedented over and over for four years. We talked about how things were unprecedented and they wouldn`t happen again. But here we are.

WINSLOW: Well, everything`s been unprecedented. Let`s start with a presidential candidate paying hush money to a porn star. Let`s start with a presidential candidate making fun of a disabled reporter. Let`s talk about a man who came on your network and said that he, you know, fired Jim Comey in order to shut down the Russian investigation, precedent, precedent, precedent, precedent, how many unprecedented things do we need to take action here.

RUHLE: Then have you lost faith in Democrats? Because at the end of the day, if they`re expecting Republicans to do the right thing, the only person they should look to is Merrick Garland, who would be on the Supreme Court today if Republicans did do the right thing?

WINSLOW: Yes, Republicans had a moral obligation, or whatever that phrase was Merrick Garland would be on the Supreme Court. What we`re looking for now, what we absolutely need to do is put heavy, heavy pressure on Merrick Garland and the Department of Justice to pursue this investigation because it`s too late now for the This committee to do it. The clock`s going to run out.

[23:25:03]

Let`s talk about different consequences, though because remember when Trump was running again and people said he just wants to stay in office to avoid consequences since he left office, what are those consequences? Jared and Ivanka are richer than ever, Trump remains the most powerful man in the Republican Party. And I don`t see anybody who`s going through a real punishment.

WINSLOW: There have been no consequences. We live in a world without consequences, except sadly, the consequences are to us. So you saw it the other day with overturning Roe v. Wade. That was a consequence.

RUHLE: So is this why you`re leaving writing to go full time activist? What`s making you do this?

WINSLOW: January 6, largely. Look, it`s been on my mind since 2016 since the Trump election. And you know, I`ve been very active on Twitter. My partner, Shane Salerno, and I produce these videos together, I think they`ve had some effect, the candidates tell us so. We`ve had over 250 million views of these videos. So I think we are getting something done. We`re speaking to people.

I think that we`re at existential point in American democracy. We`re in an existential crisis, either we`re going to move ahead as a country that guarantees rights for everybody, regardless of race, or gender or sexual orientation, or we`re going to fall back into the sort of shoddy sorry, fascism, represented by Trump in his imitators.

I made a great point in my career. This career has been fantastic to me, you know, better than I`d ever dreamed of. But now`s the time for me to pay it back. And I think that my best efforts should be in this fight.

RUHLE: How worried are you? We`re heading into the midterms that we`re not talking about voting rights legislation. We were months ago, we so it`s not happening now. And voting rights aren`t protected. None of this matters.

WINSLOW: Absolutely. I`m very worried about it. What did happen to the voting rights argument? And also, one thing we need to focus on are the secretary of state races in his various states, because, well, because you have Radical Republicans who are, you know, promulgating the big lie about the stolen election, running for those offices. They`ll control how the votes sgo, how the votes are counted in those states. So we could be in deep trouble in our democracy, if enough of those people get into those offices.

RUHLE: Well, Don Winslow, you are out there putting up a fight. Thank you so much for joining me tonight. I hope to speak to you soon.

WINSLOW: Thanks for having me. My pleasure.

RUHLE: Coming up, Russia`s unprovoked invasion of Ukraine began 11 weeks ago tonight. Up next, the Kremlin`s new threat to expand the conflict on THE 11TH HOUR continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:32:24]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKKO HAUTALA, FINLAND AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: You don`t have to be an integrating with NATO for basically 30 years. We have always said for the past 20 years that joining NATO is one of the options that we have. So I think you just rightly said it. It`s a step. It`s not a leap. So I think we`ve been communicating also the Russians that this may someday happen and I think now the day has come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: Russia now threatening to retaliate after Finland`s leaders called for joining NATO without delay. The Russia -- the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement this Finland joining NATO is a radical change in the country`s foreign policy. Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military technical and other nature in order to stop threats to its national security arising.

With us tonight to discuss Ben Rhodes, former deputy national security adviser for President Obama and an MSNBC political contributor and retired four star U.S. Army General Barry McCaffrey, a decorated combat veteran of Vietnam and a former battlefield commander in the Persian Gulf.

General, I turn to you first Russia taking retaliatory steps. That`s vague and scary. What does it mean?

GEN. BARRY MCCAFFREY, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, you know, a couple of days ago, they flew allegedly nuclear armed aircraft into an air Finnish airspace. It`s an astonishing display of strategic incompetence. They are inviting Finland and Sweden to join NATO. They upped the threat in a way to what alleviate their fears. So it`s complete nonsense.

Finland`s got a million man armed forces if they call up all their reserves. Russia has been incompetent in trying to dominate Ukraine got 60 percent of their combat -- ground combat powering their half their air force, they`re in no position to threaten Finland with nuclear weapons. Putin has a cascading series of disasters now taking place. He`s out of ideas. He`s out of options. It`s a tragedy for the Russian people, among other people.

RUHLE: So how mad is Putin? If Finland joins NATO what does it mean for Russia then?

BEN RHODES, FORMER DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, keep in mind that one of the rationales for Vladimir Putin launching this war was to push back against NATO encroaching upon Russia`s borders. With Finland joining NATO -- boys to join NATO, we`re talking about doubling the amount of territory upon which NATO is on Russia`s borders. And you talk about Sweden joining as well.

[23:35:00]

These are countries that maintain neutrality through the Cold War. We just think about that, even in the context of that conflict. They maintain neutrality as a core element of their foreign policy. Vladimir Putin`s actions have brought about NATO expansion, the very thing that he aimed to prevent.

And I`m sure as General McCaffrey knows, these are capable militaries in Sweden and Finland. And so what he`s done is he`s significantly strengthened NATO, significantly isolated Russia, while demonstrating in Ukraine that the Russian military isn`t nearly as strong as they were seeking to project before this war began just two or three months ago.

RUHLE: Then Ben, is this a no brainer for Finland? What`s their downside?

RHODES: Well, I think the downside is in the past, you know, Russia is a big neighbor, and Russia is a country that they have to live next door to. And they did want to maintain a degree of neutrality, even as the ambassador said, they`ve been taking steps in this direction. They do a lot with NATO. They do a lot with NATO militaries.

But the reality is for them, NATO is the ultimate insurance policy. And nobody can look at Vladimir Putin and not wonder, Where`s he going to go next. And once they are a member of NATO, they have that ironclad Article Five commitment to common defense, the Russian moves an inch in the Finnish territory, the United States, and all NATO countries are committed to their defense.

And that I think is the insurance policy that they`re looking for watching what`s happening in Ukraine right now.

RUHLE: General, Republican Senator Rand Paul delaying approval of an additional $40 billion in aid to Ukraine until next week, what do you think about that?

MCCAFFREY: What`s his punishing obstructionist. He drawing attention to himself. He`s a very erratic political leader. His own caucus widely supports moving this bill through, he`s going to delay it for a week or so. And then it will pass just, you know, another underscoring.

Look, Article One, the Constitution deals with Congress at the most important of the three supposedly co-equal branches of government. It`s barely functioning because of this partisan warfare, primarily, because of the Republicans.

However, on this issue, there is a bipartisan consensus that U.S. national security risks are significantly at risk if Ukraine goes under to Russian aggression. Rand Paul is operating against our own national security interest.

RUHLE: Ben, Russia is now calling for a UN Security Council meeting to present new evidence of alleged use of biological laboratories in Ukraine? There`s a lot of people out there who can`t even believe that Russia can do or say anything with the United Nations, how are they going to respond to this?

RHODES: Look, this has been one of their conspiracy theories for some time now. And it gets a lot of traction on Russian television. I think what this performances is about is, you know, Stephanie, the audience is not really the United States or Europe or Japan, South Korea, there are other countries that are sitting on the fence. There are countries like China that are kind of tacitly backing Russia, and these kinds of performative antics, frankly, I think are more designed for those audiences to just kind of sow doubt.

What is -- is there any truth to these Russian claims? And there`s obviously not, it`s nonsense, it`s garbage. But I think they constantly need to be putting forward narratives that so doubt about the U.S. role here that tried to present this as a conflict where, you know, Russia may be at fault, and like most people watching around the world think Russia is at fault. But they might also be open to a Russian narrative about NATO`s culpability.

And so this is the theater of the absurd. I think the tragedy is they`ve turned the United Nations Security Council into a farce. You know, the United Nations Security Council meeting, at the dawn of this war, was chaired by Russia, the aggressor. And this is a body the United Nations it was founded to prevent precisely this kind of war.

And so one of the casualties and ripple effects of this war is the degree to which they`ve made a mockery of the international system that was set up after World War II with the United Nations at its center. And this is going to be just yet another sad display of Russia`s disregard and disrespect for those institutions.

RUHLE: But isn`t that part of what Russia wants to do all along? Putin wants to destroy the reputations of these institutions of the West?

RHODES: Yes, absolutely. He wants to make them look feckless. He wants to demonstrate the leverage he has within them as a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. He wants to use them as a venue to spread Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories like this absolutely nonsense assertion about biological weapons.

That`s part of his effort to kind of sow chaos and make it seem like nothing matters. No institutions matter. No norms matter. He can do whatever he wants as an aggressor in Ukraine and frankly, you know, there are audiences that will listen to that including some by the way in the United States and echo Putin stopping points but decisively he is losing the battle for public opinion, at least in the democratic world.

RUHLE: Well, then what we`re going to need to do, Ben, is tell the truth every darn night. Ben Rhodes, General Barry McCaffrey, thank you both for joining us. Coming up, Diamond Hands will preview the new MSNBC documentary on last year`s GameStop rally that highlights some of the real life players that took on Wall Street when THE 11TH HOUR continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:45:09]

RUHLE: It was a moment and a movement that captivated America. Back in January of last year, shares of a company people didn`t even think about GameStop surged more than 1600 percent in two weeks, a retailer that sold video games.

Well, a group of individual day traders many of whom had never played in the markets before ever, no financial education, no background, banded together and mass online to find a way to take on Wall Street.

A new documentary From NBC News studios called Diamond Hands: The Legend of Wall StreetBets airs this Sunday on MSNBC at 10:00 pm. And it reveals the story behind that revolt, and not just what it says about investing and trading. But what the real story is about humanity, culture, counterculture. Here`s a clip from that film.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wrote this post called The Greatest Short Burn of the Century. My brother who`s an actor is going to come and read it for me, because it`s too cringy for me to do it myself.

What`s up gamblers, Jeff Amazon here. Feel bad about missing the gain train on Tesla? Fear not something much greater. And stupider is here. You know Citadel, the market maker that took all our money today. Now we finally won`t be at the mercy of the market makers. Instead, we`re going to temporarily join forces with the Galactic Empire and hijack. Our choice of weapon GameStop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: This seems crazy. This seems ridiculous. But it`s real. I want to bring in the Emmy award winning filmmakers Zack Canepari, he directed this film, and co-producer Erica Fink, Director of Development for NBC News Studios. She got her start as a business and tech reporter. That`s why she fell in love with this story.

As did I have the privilege of working with you both on this project. A lot of people in the beginning thought this was a Wall Street story, a market story, but it really wasn`t. Explain to us, Zack, what drew you to it. Because the real parallels here, these outsiders, there are a lot like the outsiders in society and politics, who said the system doesn`t work for me anymore. I`m going to make a change. And then they bust into the most impenetrable business out there, Wall Street.

ZACK CANEPARI, "DIAMOND HANDS" DIRECTOR: Yes, I think the, you know, for the lot of the work that myself and my co-director Drea Cooper been doing, been in Flint, Michigan, Paradise, California. And it`s really just about finding people that have interesting stories to tell. And through their experience, what they`re going through, what they`re feeling, what it feels like to be them, you know, seeing what the bigger picture story is, right.

And in this situation, pandemic, stimulus surplus, fed changing it all, like changing the game entirely all these people at home, and they found something to invest in. And it was completely unique. It was GameStop. No one saw value and except for this like group of investors on subreddit, and that was so unique. I mean, there`s just never been anything like it. They took that. And they almost broke the system with it. But as the system often does it, shut them out. Just one good.

RUHLE: Erica, you were the key person that brought all of this together. It was months before any of us were even thinking about GameStop, right. The only time GameStop was in my mind is when I had to buy a gift card for an eight-year-old birthday party.

ERICA FINK, "DIAMOND HANDS" CO-PRODUCER: Yes.

RUHLE: You had been tracking many of these traders, these people for months. Why? What was it about this story?

FINK: Well, that`s the thing, Steph. So my background was in tech journalism. And so lurking in Reddit was sort of a happy pleased for me.

RUHLE: That`s weird.

FINK: Yes. Admittedly, it is. And I noticed in April of 2020, so about nine months before the GameStop short squeeze that WallStreetBets the subreddit was really gaining steam stimulus checks had just come out, retail traders were on the rise. And this group where people were betting that they would drink their own pee, if they lost the value of their 401k`s in a single day in the market, or they would lick a toilet seat if Tesla`s stock went up, was suddenly going viral.

And I was looking at this group of people and I was thinking, despite outward appearances, I think this group of people may one day move the market and in fact they did.

RUHLE: They did but they didn`t win, right? People keep thinking this is a story of David versus Goliath. But they didn`t so in the end, do they win?

FINK: You know, we didn`t win. But there was a nihilism that was really present in that group of people this I am going to stick it to the man I`m going to bet the farm and they by doing this they kind of created this conversation about why that nialism (ph) exists and it`s about the sort of inequity and it`s about this generational divide on wealth.

[23:50:09]

RUHLE: It sure is. I want to play another important part. I think from the film, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I sold all my shares at 120 bucks. Sure. I watched a million dollars go down the drain, a million dollars. And that`s what`s going through my head, a million dollars. This is my family`s future. This is my future. This is time with my kids that I could have bought back. I felt I didn`t feel like again, turning $20,000. I felt like I lost a million.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: But that`s the thing here at the end. Lots of the biggest, biggest players did end up making lots of the money. Right now here we are markets are roiling. Again, markets are down, these people could lose it all. What`s your takeaway at the end of this?

CANEPARI: It`s probably a little bit unpopular, but I think Goliath might have actually won, which is a little bit of a shame. But you know, this was a real, I think at the end like we`re going to step back and go the system created the opportunity for this whole diamond -- the whole GameStop squeezed to happen. And then they shut the door on it at the same time.

And I think that within that, you know, it just speaks to sort of a greater inequality that I think kind of crosses over to all these American stories right now. Like we`re in the middle of a great battle over the American dream, who has access to it and who doesn`t. And I think within this story, we saw exactly who the system is set up for, and it`s not for the retail investor necessarily.

RUHLE: Why the name diamonds?

CANEPARI: It was, you know, it`s a mentality that these guys have this. So the --

RUHLE: We don`t know what it means, right? That`s not a Wall Street audience. That`s what means.

CANEPARI: The subreddit, Wall Street --

RUHLE: Isn`t that funny? It`s not -- it`s on a Wall Street audience or a subreddit audience? Yes.

CANEPARI: Yes. Yes, totally. The subreddit, Wall StreetBets, you know, is group of investors. At this point, I think it`s up to 10 million investors. And they have their own language. They have their own lingo, and --

RUHLE: Erica just dumped her water. Erica is very worried about coming on TV tonight. She said, No, I`m behind the camera. I don`t go in front of a camera. And here she is just filled her water. Guess what, Ali Velshi did it last week.

FINK: You know, I mean --

RUHLE: You`re in good company. All right. Sorry, back to diamond hands.

CANEPARI: Totally forgot where we`re going this. So Diamond Hands essentially references, you know, how strong you are with your stock. So if you`re -- if you have diamond hands, you`re holding on to that stock up and down as a -- as the waves crash all around you. If you have paper hands, you`re selling too soon, right?

But at the same time, diamonds can be its own problem, you`re holding on too long. And I think what happened with a lot of people in Robin Hood shut down training, they just kept holding hoping that the system would correct itself. And it totally backfired.

RUHLE: And why did many of them hold on because they`re not just holding on for winning trade? They`re holding on for dear life because they`re hoping for a different life. That`s why you need to see this film. Zack. Erica, thank you both so much. Honored to be part of it.

Again, you can watch "Diamond Hands: The Legend of WallStreetBets" this Sunday at 10:00 p.m. right here on MSNBC. And scores of those Wall Street bets traders, the ones we were just talking about, they`re not just big and mean stocks, many of them have taken their gains. And then a lot of cases their life savings to another outsiders investing favorite cryptocurrencies.

And we`ve been watching the stock market continue to drop this week. It has been an absolute disaster for cryptocurrencies, some are calling it a death spiral. Others say crypto may be approaching its 2008 moment. That`s why this matters.

In a one day sell off $200 billion was erased from the entire crypto market. I know this is confusing to a lot of people you`re saying I`m not involved. But when moves are this big, there are knock on effects that could impact all of us. We`re going to dig into that tomorrow night. We`ll be back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:58:00]

RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight asking the tough questions. Sixth grader and superstar Nick News reporter Rory Hu has already made a name for herself. Her interviews big gets like Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen and Apple CEO Tim Cook. Well, today the California native and Hamilton enthusiast, she was at the White House back at it with the tough questions. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RORY HU, NICK NEWS REPORTER: I just have a question and a follow up. So first, there are concerns about the negative impacts of social media on the mental health of children. Will the White House take any actions to prevent these impacts?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As a mom myself, Rory, my daughter is younger than you she thinks you are very hip and cool, no doubt. This is a huge concern that I have we have the president has is the impact of social media platforms, their enormous power and the fact that it is largely unchecked.

It is certainly something that our Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy has talked about in terms of the impact of social media platforms, and what the impact they`re having on the mental health, the self-esteem of young people. And so I would say the President, the First Lady, all of us believe that more needs to be done.

HU: The Internet has become a tool for children`s education. A lot of students use the internet to learn. So how will the White House prevent children from getting misinformed from it?

PSAKI: Such a good question too. Well, I know reporters like yourself and people that other kids listen to are good voices to provide accurate information and you are coming here and asking tough questions is an important part of that.

I would say that, you know, one of the things that we encourage parents to do is, you know, make sure you are educating yourself on all of these platforms and what information is available and working with your kids to make sure they understand what`s accurate and inaccurate. There`s certainly steps the government can take but there`s also an ongoing development of new tools and we as parents need to keep educating ourselves about what`s out there so we can make sure our kids have access to good information, informative information.

[00:00:04]

We watch a lot of animal videos in my house that`s all good and positive, and not access to information that`s inaccurate and misleading or bored or problematic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: There you have it, the important voices leading Americans to a brighter future. My takeaway tonight, I`m betting on Rory.

And on that note, I wish you all a very good night from all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News. Thanks for staying up late with us. I`ll see you at the end of tomorrow.