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Transcript: The ReidOut, 5/16/22

Guests: Cynthia Miller-Idriss, Darius Pridgen, Kathy Hochul, Leonard Pitts, Jose Antonio Vargas, Tim Wise


The motives and manifesto of the alleged Buffalo mass shooter are examined. New York Governor Kathy Hochul discusses the Buffalo mass shooting. Voters head to the polls tomorrow in Pennsylvania. Is a new generation of domestic terrorist being radicalized online?


ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: It`s been good to be back with you.

That does it for THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER.


JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, everyone.

We begin THE REIDOUT tonight with the mainstreaming of racist hate.

Now, I`d like to refresh your memory about something that happened a couple of years ago. You may remember this. The top writer for Tucker Carlson show on FOX News resigned after being exposed for posting racist and sexist messages for years under a pseudonym in an online forum popular with law students.

He portrayed black Americans as lazy and criminals, made derogatory comments about Asian Americans, used homophobic slurs. Now, if that sounds familiar, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, it sounds a lot like the kind of filth that you would most certainly encounter in the bowels of the interwebs, places like 4chan, where the racist domestic terrorist who drove 200 miles to a grocery store in a predominantly black neighborhood in Buffalo to slaughter black people says that he was radicalized while he was sitting at home bored during the pandemic.

This vile person killed 10 people, all black, and injured three more. He spelled out his ideology in a manifesto he allegedly wrote filled with racist and antisemitic memes, citing the Great Replacement conspiracy theory of white supremacists.

That is the false idea that began in the early 20th century in France, was popularized in 2011 by a French kitsch writer named Renaud Camus that claims that white people in Europe and the United States are being systematically replaced with nonwhite people as part of the Jewish conspiracy.

It`s this "Camp of the Saints" dreck that you might recall hearing from white nationalist, former Breitbart boss and Trump consigliere Steve Bannon. And it might seem like the kind of crud that`s just relegated to the darkest corners of the interwebs, but make no mistake, it has been fully mainstreamed.

It`s been building for decades on the right. In fact, I remember hearing about a version of it when I was in high school in the 1980s from news reports about former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan David Duke, who went from cross burner to politician and got nearly 40 percent of the vote in Louisiana, surging among conservative white voters when he ran for governor in 1991, though he ultimately lost.

Now, here`s what he said in 2000, a year after losing again, this time running for Congress.


DAVID DUKE, FORMER IMPERIAL WIZARD OF THE KU KLUX KLAN: You have a rapidly declining European American majority. And if we don`t reverse this, soon, we will be a minority in our own country.

And, at that point, we will be out numbered and outvoted in our land. And no matter what you think about any issue, you will be powerless to make your voice heard in government.


REID: Now, that kind of rhetoric, it used to be shocking. Republicans once called it fringe.

But, if we`re honest, how is that different from what you would hear in many Republican primary campaigns in 2022? Duke`s rhetoric has been cleaned up dressed up and fully repurposed, and not just by the far, far right, but all the way up to Republican leadership in Congress.

Take Elise Stefanik, the third-ranking Republican in the House of Representatives. Last year, her campaign committee ran Facebook ads warning of a permanent election insurrection by Democrats by providing a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

Compare that to the woman who Stefanik replaced in the leadership, Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who was ousted for not joining fellow Republicans in excusing the coup to keep the disgraced former president in power.

Cheney tweeted, bluntly: "The House GOP leadership has enabled white nationalism, white supremacy and antisemitism. History has taught us that what begins with words ends in far worse. GOP leaders must renounce and reject these views and those who hold them."

Now, I got a lot of issues with Liz Cheney, but she`s right about that. This kind of thing has been enabled and thrust into the Republican mainstream. I mean, just listen to Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson and Pennsylvania Congressman Scott Perry.


SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): This administration wants complete open borders, and you have to ask yourself why. Is it really they want to remake the demographics of America to ensure they`re -- that they stay in power forever?

REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): For many Americans, what seems to be happening or what they believe right now is happening is what appears to them is, we`re replacing natural-born American, native-born Americans to permanently transform the political landscape of this very nation.


REID: Now, those are just a few of the many examples I could give you of an ideology that has gone offline and become the norm for much of the Republican Party, with no figure on the right giving more voice to that bile than the one cited by Congressman Matt Gaetz, who tweeted last year: "Tucker Carlson is correct about Replacement Theory as he explains what is happening to America."


No singular voice in right-wing media has done more to elevate this racist conspiracy theory than Tucker, who, even with a new head writer, spends night after prime-time night injecting the rot from the dregs of the Internet directly into the veins of Republican voters.

Just listen.


TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: An unrelenting stream of immigration, but why? Well, Joe Biden just said it, to change the racial mix of the country. That`s the reason, to reduce the political power of people whose ancestors lived here and dramatically increase the proportion of Americans newly arrived from the Third World.

In political terms, this policy is called the Great Replacement, the replacement of legacy Americans with more obedient people from faraway countries. I know that the left and all the little gatekeepers on Twitter become literally hysterical if you use the term replacement, if you suggest the Democratic Party is trying to replace the current electorate, the voters now casting ballots with new people, more obedient voters from the Third World.


REID: I mean, are Tucker`s writers sourcing his show from 4chan? These are just questions.

As a "New York Times" analysis last month found, in more than 400 episodes, the Tuckums amplified the idea that a cabal of elites want to force demographic change through immigration. That is Replacement Theory, which brings me back to where we started, because the reality is, Tucker is not some deep thinker.

He`s clearly just channeling the gross stuff his viewers could easily find online, then feeding it to Republican voters and Republican politicians as infotainment. And that feedback loop has terrifying reach.

That murderous lowlife in Buffalo wouldn`t even have to listen to Tucker, he wouldn`t have to watch him at all to get it if they are essentially pulling from the same source material.

For example, in his racist manifesto, which reads like a bad term paper, by the way, the Buffalo shooter asked: "Why is diversity said to be our greatest strength? Does anyone even ask why?"

OK, remember that, now? All right, now listen to this from a 2018 Tucker Carlson segment. Just asking questions.


CARLSON: How precisely is diversity our strength? Since you have made this our new national motto, please be specific as you explain it.


REID: Joining me now is Tim Wise, anti-racism educator and author of "Dispatches From the Race War," Jose Antonio Vargas, founder of Define American and author of the national bestselling book "Dear America: Notes of an Undocumented Citizen," and Leonard Pitts Jr., Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for "The Miami Herald."

Thank you all for being here.

But, Tim, I want to start with you, because I`m old enough to remember David Duke and seeing reports about him on the news when I was in high school, even. He has been around since the `80s.

But you actually worked on some of those campaigns to try to defeat him. And I will proffer that there`s not much that he said as a politician -- I`m not saying that he was an actual cross burning Klan leader -- but, as a politician, I don`t hear anything that he said back in those days that, to me, sounds appreciably different from what I`m hearing from rank-and-file Republicans running for Congress, running for governor, running for office,

Your thoughts?

TIM WISE, AUTHOR, "DISPATCHES FROM THE RACE WAR": No, in some ways, it`s worse.

I mean, Duke, in `90 and `91, when he ran for Senate and governor, he did the typical dog whistle stuff around welfare, crime, affirmative action, but even he did not do the Replacement Theory stuff in those days, because he knew that that was too third rail. So we have regressed.

And here`s the thing. The Republican Party announced essentially that this was going to happen shortly after that 1991 gubernatorial election, where Duke lost, but he got 55 percent of the white vote. Two months later, Pat Buchanan, preparing a run in New Hampshire in the 1992 presidential race, said in one of his columns, or it was an interview -- I think it was one of his columns -- said that the Republican Party needed to look at the winning playbook of ideas that David Duke had been running on.

In other words, he was saying, this is the future of where we need to go. And here we are, 30 years later, and we`re shocked that this is happening? We ought not be shocked. They telegraphed this, and they had been moving in this direction for several decades.

And, at the time, everyone said, oh, that`s just Louisiana, or that`s -- New Hampshire is different. They`re weird. The owner of "The Manchester Union Leader" is this wacky old lady that says weird things, but, when she dies, it`ll all be fine.

It`s not just Louisiana. It`s not just New Hampshire. It is a nation in thrall to the notion of white nationalism, either directly or indirectly, with people like Tucker Carlson giving that support.

REID: Right.

I mean, Leonard Pitts, you could quote things in his manifesto that Tucker says on his show. I`m thinking about, OK, the number three -- number two- person in Republican leadership right now, I didn`t call this. He calls himself David Duke without the baggage, or said that in the past.

You have -- let`s play Steve King, because Steve King got run out of the Republican Party for saying stuff like this. I`m not sure he would get run out of it today. Here`s Steve King.


FMR. REP. STEVE KING (R-IA): You cannot rebuild your civilization with somebody else`s babies. You have got to keep your birth rate up, and that you need to teach your children your values. And, in doing so, then you can grow your population and you can strengthen your culture. You can strengthen your way of life.



REID: Leonard, that is the underlying argument of some of the most vehement far right versions of the abort -- of the anti-abortion movement, to say that we need to increase the supply of children, that people need to have more babies.


REID: But he got run out of the party. I don`t know if he would get run out now. I couldn`t tell you. Just asking questions.

Your thoughts?

PITTS: I agree wholeheartedly.

What used to be seen as or was sold as or we were told was the fringe of the GOP, and that was a little dicey even when they were saying it, but has definitely proven itself to be the beating heart of what used to be called conservatism.

And I remember when I used to write columns about this 20 years ago, let`s say, and I would say -- I would plead with thoughtful conservatives OK, this is what I see coming in your party and in your ideology. You need to take hold of this.

And I would get all of these e-mails, oh, we`re not -- we`re not all like that. Yes, that`s a problem, but we`re not all like that. And my retort to them always was, don`t tell me. Show me. Don`t talk to me. Talk to your friends here. Talk to your party, your fellow party members.

And what we have come to see over the years since I was having those discussions, and since David Duke ran in the `90s, is that when it comes to a choice between the country and power, between what is -- between the vindication of what we claim to be American values, and the grasping of power, for the Republican Party and his acolytes, there is no choice.

It is always the grasping of power. And they will do it -- forgive me, Malcolm X -- by any means necessary. That`s...


REID: Absolutely.

Jose Antonio Vargas, let me bring you in, because -- and, listen, I am not the only person making that comparison. Here, David Duke himself said -- he -- in a 2021 podcast -- he was a big supporter of Donald Trump. And he said this about himself.

He said: "How could it be that I`m an evil guy? I`m supporting all the fundamental things that Tucker says. How can I be evil when I`m saying the same fundamental things Tucker says?"

That`s what David Duke says. And I`m not saying that this shooter in Buffalo watches Tucker Carlson. He wouldn`t have to. If they`re both pulling from the same online source material that talks about immigrants in the exact same way, and they wind up -- to the point where they wind up using the same rhetoric, they`re pulling from the same material. He doesn`t have to get it directly from Tucker.

It`s now the ethos on the right. So, I want to let you talk a little bit about the study you did. Let me play a little bit of a clip from this video that you sent to my producers.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We studied the top anti-immigration videos from the past 13 years. And we looked at the channels that publish them. Almost every video on this list presents arguments that ultimately support the white nationalist theory of the Great Replacement.

So we named this network of channels the Great Replacement Network, or the GRN, for short.


REID: So talk about this Great Replacement Network.

I see "The New York Post" on there. What did you all find in this study?

JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, first of all, the voice that you`re hearing there is from my colleague, Shauna Siggelkow, and actually her colleague Sarah Lowe.

So, we have invested more than two years researching this. And,actually, what we found if -- and you go to, you can see the whole study -- it`s actually a whole network, this Great Replacement Network, FOX News, Breitbart, The Blaze, "The New York Post," right?

And this has been a decades-long, multimillion-dollar project in the making. I mean, you were just talking about Pat Buchanan. I remember -- I emigrated to the Philippines when I -- in the `90s. And I remember reading a book when I was in college that Pat Buchanan wrote. I think the title was something like along the lines of "The Death of the West," right, how dying populations and immigrant invasions imperil our country.

I mean, I remember this -- I remember the title of this book, because I started wondering, wait a second, like, what -- how are immigrants -- by the way, didn`t -- aren`t we calling immigrants essential workers during this pandemic? Aren`t they the very people that we depend on for labor in this country?

And yet they`re the very people that we are now saying who are replacing us, right? And so, for us at Define American, how do we actually look at the messages? You`re right. They`re not getting it from Tucker because young people don`t watch FOX News, right?

REID: Right.

VARGAS: I remember the first time I heard about these anti-immigrant videos.

I was at an event in Miami University in Ohio, and a young student who was a college Republican, because I talk to as many college Republicans as I possibly can, told me that he saw this anti-immigrant video on a group called PragerU. I had no idea what PragerU was. I didn`t know that it`s like this $50 million funded anti-immigrant machine.

And this young man that I just met, this young white man I met who went to that university, was binge-watching an anti-immigrant ideology over on YouTube, right?

So how do we know the messages that they use, and how do we combat them? And I think that, to me, is the challenge here, right? We actually have to actually stop just playing defense and actually say to people the benefits. When people ask, what is the benefits of diversity, look around you, right?


REID: Yes.

VARGAS: What is America without Latinos and Asians and African-Americans and black immigrants and everybody else?

This was never a white country. And I actually think the fact that we use that term white without actually saying, wait a second, weren`t you immigrants too from Germany and Italy and all of those countries, right?

REID: Yes. Yes.

VARGAS: I mean, that is the -- precisely what we have to go up against.

REID: Yeah, undocumented immigration started in 1492.

Tim Wise, you`re an anti-racism educator. How do we do it? What do we do? Because the sources of this information are everywhere, and they`re very much online. Again, they`re not -- like, 80-year-olds are watching Tucker. It`s not -- that`s not where these kids are getting it. What do we do?

WISE: Right.

I think we have to do exactly what Jose said. But, also, we have got to pose this as an argument between those who believe in multiracial democracy and those who believe in the end of democracy on behalf of white nationalism, because there`s no middle ground.

I mean, the reality is that the so-called demographic shift in this country isn`t even because of immigration. It`s because the median age of white people is 43, and folks in their mid-40s ain`t haven`t a whole lot of babies.

So the reality is, you could stop immigration tomorrow, theoretically, and the numbers are still going to change. So, if you don`t like that, because you have this belief in the loss of the fundamental racial stock of legacy Americans, or whatever Tucker Carlson -- let`s just understand, you can`t solve that so-called problem unless you do mass deportation.

I`m talking rounding people up in cattle cars. You can`t do anything about it unless you sterilize black and brown women and do like some Nazi eugenic program to fund white families to do like the Duggar family or something and have like 19 kids, hopefully none of them sex offenders, like one of their sons or whatever. Like, that`s what you would have to do.

You can`t have democracy and white hegemony. Pick a side. It is either going to be white hegemony or multiracial democracy. We know where Tucker stands. We know where Matt Gaetz stands. We know where Trump stands. The question is, where do the rest of us stand?

REID: Yes.

WISE: That`s what the next 20 to 30 years in this country is going to be about.

REID: We could do a whole half-hour. I really wish we could.

Please promise me all three of you will come back, because I really want to continue the conversation. I`m sorry we don`t have more time.

Tim Wise, Jose Antonio Vargas, Leonard Pitts Jr., thank you all very much.

And, please, go on and read that study.

Up next on THE REIDOUT: the 10 lives lost in Buffalo, the rich lives they lead until, by chance, they crossed paths with a racist killer. New York Governor Kathy Hochul joins me.

Plus, the new radicalization -- where the Buffalo killer says he got his violent and racist ideas. And what, if anything, is being done to address that kind of deadly indoctrination?

And voters go to the polls tomorrow in Pennsylvania, where the Republican ballot is loaded with election deniers who stand a very good chance of being nominated.

THE REIDOUT continues after this.



REID: Police say the gunman in Saturday`s mass murderer specifically chose, Buffalo, New York, because it was the city with the highest number of black people in his vicinity.

The top supermarket he chose to terrorize is on Buffalo`s East Side, where 75 percent of residents are people of color. The market is a community hub in the historically black neighborhood of Jefferson Avenue. All 10 of the murdered people were black.

And while it`s impossible to summon their lives up with just a few words, their stories deserve to be heard.

There`s 55-year-old security guard Aaron Salter Jr., a retired police officer who heroically defended the store by firing at the shooter.

Roberta Drury, 32, who had been taking care of her brother in Buffalo for the past 10 years as he recovered from cancer.

Ruth Whitfield, who was 86 and had stopped at the store to get something to eat after visiting her husband in a nursing home.

Andre Mackneil was 53. He was there to buy cake for his 3-year-old son.

Pearly Young was 77, who ran a pantry feeding people in Buffalo`s Central Park every Saturday for 25 years.

Heyward Patterson, 67, was a driver who was loading groceries for a client when he was shot.

And Katherine Massey, 72 years young, who spent her life fighting for her community. Last year, she wrote a letter to "The Buffalo News" pushing for more regulation of firearms, citing the gut-wrenching escalation of gun violence in Buffalo and many major U.S. cities.

The others who lost their lives, Geraldine Talley, 62, Celestine Chaney, 65, and Margus D. Morrison, 52, all innocent people just going to the store on a weekend.

With me now is the governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, who was born in Buffalo and represented the area for years.

Governor Hochul, thank you for being here.

I can`t imagine how much pain this community is in right now. As a Buffalo native, talk about what the aftermath looks like for the people of your home city.

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): Thank you for showing the pictures of these people. They`re not just a number, 10. They`re 10 people with personalities and lives that are lost forever.

This is my hometown. It`s part of my community. I lived like 10 or 12 minutes from this neighborhood. I go back to Buffalo all the time. It is still my home. So, these are my neighbors.

And this is deeply personal. And people are just searing with pain. I went into my elevator, and I live in a very diverse building, with black, white. Didn`t matter the color of skin, people falling in my arms weeping.


I mean, there`s just such anguish in this community right now. And we need to start talking about how we heal. And we`re trying to provide resources to people, mental health services. This is now a food desert, by the way. It`s an impoverished part of our city. I -- an enormous amount of mine dedicated toward rebuilding it in our budget just passed a couple of weeks ago.

But, right now, where are they getting groceries? So I stepped up and made sure that Uber or Lyft could transport people who don`t have cars. There`s not much public transportation, just a few buses. Take them to grocery stores. And I can`t tell you how many people have stepped up. Reverend Al stepped up and said he`d cover, National Action Network would cover the cost of the funerals.

So I am so proud of how people outside the community, but particularly in the community, are just giving each other this collective hug, because people are in such pain.

REID: Let me ask you, because you mentioned the part about this community being a food desert.

And we know that this area was shaped by decades of segregation. And I`m going to read this for "The Buffalo News."

"Almost as soon as the tragedy unfolded, local advocates, Western New York`s emergency food network, corporate donors, churches and Tops itself began mobilizing to make sure no one in the predominantly black community goes hungry."

This is the only store. It was a big deal. And having that hub was super important. We have some video here of something called Community Fridge, which is now gathering food. The fact that this community, because of segregation of the way that redlining keeps businesses out of black communities often, they were already economically on the downside here.

What can be done about that core issue? This shouldn`t have been a food desert.

HOCHUL: I have made this one of my highest priorities because I know this neighborhood.

I already spoke to the CEO of Tops company, whose store was -- his store was the site of the massacre. He promised me that they would reopen the store. It`s still a crime scene. They have some work to do. But he himself is paying for people to be transported to places they can get food, other grocery stores outside the area.

So there is a strong community response, so no one is left behind. But, personally, since I know this community -- I have been governor since August. I have devoted more money and resources to rebuilding this community. This is one of those communities that to support white flight from the downtown urban core to get people out to the suburbs -- so they divided this with a massive highway.

We see this in many cities, black community divided in half by this asphalt, this exit to leave the city to get away from people.

REID: Yes.

HOCHUL: I have just dedicated a billion dollars to rebuild that and to start putting the seams back together and helping this community.

So I`m going to continue, as a Buffalo native, to focus on the injustices that have been the hallmark of this community for my entire life. As a child growing up here, I saw this. My family helped start a community center in this neighborhood to help people who had nothing.

My mother and I used to go visit people and they -- in public housing and give them counseling and support. So, I know this community. And I`m -- as governor -- they did not deserve this. They`re innocent. They`re hardworking. They`re tight-knit. And I`m going to help them here, because that`s what I have to do.

And I was so proud when Governor -- I`m sorry -- President Biden called me yesterday and said: "Kathy, what can I do to help?"

I said: "Mr. President, if you came to Buffalo, this part of our community that always feels neglected and overlooked."

REID: Right.

HOCHUL: "You come here. You`re the most empathetic person we have ever had in this position. Please come."

And he is coming tomorrow. So, I`m really happy about that.

REID: We will be paying attention to that tomorrow, as the president comes out to Buffalo.

New York Governor Kathy Hochul, thank you very much. Really appreciate you being here.

Let`s turn now to Darius Pridgen, Buffalo City Council president and bishop of the True Bethel Baptist Church.

Bishop Pridgen, I just want to let you talk. Talk about this community, where your church is located. This is your community. So tell me about it. What should we know about these wonderful people who lost their lives and this store that was so central?

DARIUS PRIDGEN, BUFFALO, NEW YORK, CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, thank you for covering this story so in-depth.

This community is my community. I am not only the president of the Buffalo Common Council, but we all have districts. And so this one is located within my district, the Ellicott district of Buffalo. And I live two blocks away from this store. So we go to the store constantly.

Even on the day of the massacre, I was on the way to pick up something to put on the grill. And my laziness said, go and just buy something. So, I made a right, instead of making a left, came back home. And my wife called me, as she had just left the house, to tell me there was a heavy police presence.


This is a tight-knit community. You know, when some people hear about a predominantly African-American neighborhood in the grocery store, immediately, some people think of a rundown grocery store with very little food. That`s not the case with this grocery store. It is a part of the Tops chain.

And, as many have said, we fought for the store to be in this community, because most stores weren`t trying to locate -- there`s not a lot of national stores that want to locate in a poor neighborhood. And they decided to do that. And so it`s a hub. It`s a gathering place. It`s like -- it`s like the barbershop in the black community. It`s like the hairdresser.

People there, they`re talking. You see your neighbors. And so we knew -- everybody in this area kind of knows. If they don`t know the people who pass, they know somebody, like, very tight-knit, who knows somebody. And so, in this area, we just never expected that to happen, because you don`t expect outsiders. It`s like your brothers or sisters.

You might fight with your brothers and sisters, but you`re not letting anybody else fight your brother and sister. And so that`s Tops. That`s this area.

REID: You know, I have been both heartbroken and smiling just reading about the lives of these people. They sounded like they were like the best of this community, people who were volunteering, helping others.

And just reading about your community, I mean, it`s got its own -- sort of version of the Apollo Theater. There`s so much rich culture there.

This person, who I won`t even name, who came and shot up the store, it talked about in his manifesto that the goal was to make black people understand that they will never be safe, that they will never feel safe, and to try to drive people to voluntarily leave.

What do you make of that? And is that something that would ever happen in a strong community like yours?

PRIDGEN: Well, I think that, for a moment in time, he got what he wanted as far as making African-Americans feel unsafe in their own community.

Today, when my teenage sons left for school, one of them was very concerned, the 13-year-old, about going to school today and what would happen. And we kind of went back and forth, my wife and I. She said: "I want to keep them home."

And I said: "They`re going to school." We -- I took that approach. They got to learn. And then, halfway through the day, I felt her heart and sent her -- I told her, go. Go get them.

You know, so it is -- he got the first part for just temporary.

But what we do know -- and we call Buffalo the City of Good Neighbors. And the reason we call it, because it took somebody to come from outside of Buffalo to do this massacre. It took somebody who, unfortunately, really researched us. If he had researched us as far as who we are as a people, he might have come and moved in our community, instead of coming to try to kill -- or not try -- instead of coming to kill people in our community.

So he got a little bit, but he won`t get the rest. But he got arrested right away. And there`s people in our community right now who are feeling like, how did this man make it out of this alive with the weapons he had, with the bodies that we`re on the ground?

But, of course, police procedure, he put down the gun when they showed up. But there`s some people, just to be frank, who stand -- who hang around on the corner across the street, who I think, if they had known what was going on, this would have been a lot different.

So, at the end of the day, I will tell you this. I`m glad he`s alive. And I`m glad he`s alive so that we can dig into, hopefully, what was going on and who else he knows. I think death was too easy.

REID: Yes.

PRIDGEN: And it kind of gives him a quick out, when he needs to sit in prison for the rest of his natural life.

REID: Well, I think, unfortunately, the history of the way that these things happen is that there are certain demographics who almost always survive these situations, whereas innocent young black men and women sometimes don`t even survive being pulled over for a tag on their car.

It is part of the problem in this country. And that is me saying that. I will not put that on you.

Buffalo City Council President, the Bishop Darius Pridgen, thank you, sir. We really appreciate you being here.

PRIDGEN: Thank you.

REID: And still ahead.

PRIDGEN: Thank you very much.

REID: Thank you. Best to you and your family.

Still ahead: A new generation of domestic terrorist is being radicalized online. And, for now, authorities are struggling to hold accountable those doing the radicalizing.


Stay with us.


REID: The so-called manifesto allegedly written by the Buffalo gunman is a 180-page screed filled with antisemitic and racist memes, specific plans to attack black people in references to the racist Great Replacement Theory popularized on right-wing prime-time television FOX News, as well as within the halls of Congress.


The gunman also repeatedly cited and heavily plagiarized the white supremacist mass shooter who killed 51 people and injured 40 others at Christchurch, New Zealand, mosque in 2019.

It is a document officials are scouring for clues, a screed that is revealing the domestic terrorism that this country is up against. Lone wolf? Well, not so lone. This person comes from a flourishing global online community filled with members who think and might one day act just as he did.

Joining me now is Cynthia Miller-Idriss, a professor at American University, where she directs the Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab. She`s also the author of "Hate in the Homeland."

Thank you so much for being here, Ms. Miller-Idriss.

And it`s been pointed out to me by someone else who works in sort of your field of work that, I mean, large chunks of this manifesto were literally just picked up and dropped in from the Christchurch shooter.

What does that tell us? Because this -- I read through the manifesto, and a lot of what he`s doing is attempting to instruct other people to do what he did, just as he did what the Christchurch killer did.


I mean, most of the content of the manifesto is plagiarized, essentially. It`s just copy-and-pasted from a -- from a previous terrorist in Christchurch, New Zealand, and with replacement of words to swap out essentially the victims here in this case.

And then what he really wanted, I think, was to get people to follow -- to try to follow his actions. I will say that my research lab, together with the Southern Poverty Law Center, two years ago issued a guide for parents and caregivers because we were worried about teenagers being online all the time and the circulation of propaganda increasing.

And the number one warning sign in our first bullet was -- had to do with the Great Replacement, with people talking about or using words related to the Great Replacement. So I know we`re hearing a lot of words about there being no warning signs here, but we have known about this problem. And, obviously, the black community has known about this problem.

And victims have known that this kind of thing was coming, with the circulation and the mainstreaming of this propaganda.

REID: We had the FBI director, Christopher Wray, say that domestic -- say -- in 2020, is that within the direct -- well, let me just play it real quick. This is FBI Director Christopher Wray in 2020.


CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: What I can tell you is that, within -- within the domestic terrorism bucket category as a whole, racially motivated violent extremism is, I think, the biggest bucket within that larger group.

And within the racially motivated violent extremist bucket, people ascribing to some kind of white supremacist-type ideology is certainly the biggest chunk of that.

I would also add to that racially motivated violent extremists over recent years have been responsible for the most lethal activity in the U.S.


REID: And I will add to that a poll by AP which says that one in three, 32 percent of Americans agree that a group of people is trying to replace native-born Americans with immigrants for electoral gains.

With so many young people sitting home during the pandemic browsing YouTube and 4chan, et cetera, what can be done about this?

MILLER-IDRISS: Well, first of all, I think the first thing is, you have to better equip people in schools and in any possible way to recognize and reject racist and supremacist content when they see it.

So, if we don`t have young people who can recognize it -- and when I say recognize it, I mean, sometimes, it comes in joke forms, in memes, right? It can be subtle. It`s Holocaust denial. So we need people to be able to recognize that propaganda, reject it on his face.

That`s the first thing. And so, if we can`t even have conversations about race and about the legacy of structural racism in school, that`s really difficult, then, to kind of inoculate people against that propaganda when they run into it, because it`s offering a false, conspiracy-driven explanation for inequalities that they see in the world.

And then it`s telling them that they have to rise up and act heroically to kind of save their people. So, it`s a really dangerous cycle when you have this mainstreaming, the refusal to incorporate any way to address race or racism in curriculum in schools and the circulation of this propaganda increasing so rapidly online.

REID: It`s not even a refusal. It`s literally Republicans running on an aggressive message of erasing any contextual discussion of history to do exactly what you`re doing.

They`re saying, no, you`re not allowed to even talk about race in a way that might help young people to identify this stuff when it comes a them. They`re basically saying, you`re not allowed to do that. You have to essentially teach dogma that -- it`s not helpful.

But, Dr. Cynthia Miller-Idriss, I thank you for being here. I hope that you will come back. I want to have more of this conversation.

And coming up: The election deniers with ties to January 6 who just might be nominated in tomorrow`s Pennsylvania primary. Perfect.


We will be right back.


REID: Tomorrow`s results in the Pennsylvania primary could shape the future of American democracy.

Republican voters in the state, which Joe Biden won by 80,000 votes, are choosing from a pool of candidates that range from extreme to extremist, including candidates for governor, lieutenant governor and senator who attended the January 6 Stop the Steal Rally in Washington.


State Senator Doug Mastriano, the likely Republican nominee for governor, has promised to appoint a secretary of state who would require all voters to re-register before casting their ballots, a move that would likely be illegal.

Mastriano, for all his work to undermine democracy, just received the backing of the 2020 candidate who lost the state for Republicans. Trump called him "a fighter like few others who has been with me right from the beginning, and now I have an obligation to be with him."

Teddy Daniels, who`s running for lieutenant governor, also attended the insurrection and was also accused of abuse by his wife, an allegation he denies.

And to complete the triumvirate, NBC News has verified that Kathy Barnette, a surging candidate for U.S. Senate, took to the streets on January 6, flanked by members of the extremist group the Proud Boys. Her campaign says she has no connection to the group. Polls show Barnette and her opponents, Dr. Mehmet Oz and Dave McCormick, each within striking distance of a win.

But all that is just on the Republican side. Democrats have their own issues to contend with.

And that is next.



REID: Tomorrow, as voters head to the polls in Pennsylvania, Democrats will choose their nominee for the U.S. Senate seat being vacated by Republican Pat Toomey.

The three major candidates are Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman, Congressman Conor Lamb, and state Representative Malcolm Kenyatta. Yesterday, Fetterman announced that he had suffered a stroke from a clot caused by heart arrhythmia. He remains hospitalized tonight.

I`m joined now by Matthew Dowd, MSNBC contributor and founder of Country Over Party.

Matthew, if there was ever a "worst-case scenario all the way around" race, it is Pennsylvania, right? I mean, all of the Republican candidates, I think, bar none, are extremists. And then, on the Democratic side, the lead candidate, Fetterman, is now hospitalized, and the other two have had no traction. What in the world?



And then you add to that Pennsylvania was where the Declaration of Independence was signed, and the First Continental Congress, and where the Gettysburg Address was written, in a state that was basically foundational for our freedom. We have this taking place in that state.

And I think one of the ways people need to start looking at this, Joy, is, this is not Trump-endorsed candidates vs. non-Trump-endorsed candidates, because every Republican abides by the crazy stuff, the lies, his anti- democratic pushes, and accepts white supremacy, all of that, just like in Ohio.

It`s -- I think the best visual is this. The Republican Party basically created a monster over the last 20 years. Different parts were added, white supremacy, autocracy, all that, where parts were added. And then Donald Trump gave electricity to the monster.

Now the monster has woken up and no longer is paying attention to basically anybody of sound mind. And that`s what`s taken over the Republican Party in state after state after state. And so, when we argue, somebody argues, well, the non-Trump-endorsed candidate won, well, the non-Trump-endorsed candidate may be actually worse than the Trump-endorsed candidate, like Pennsylvania, with Kathy Barnette in that.


DOWD: And so that`s the situation they`re in.

And it is such a tragic situation that it`s taking place in Pennsylvania, home of our Declaration of Independence and the Gettysburg Address. `

REID: You know, and what`s even scarier is that Pennsylvania is one of those states where the governor appoints secretary of state. So, whoever the governor is will determine whether or not this is going to be an election pre-stolen for Donald Trump or DeSantis or whoever is the nominee.

They could literally do that. I mean, the idea that the current front- runner is saying they`re going to force everyone to re-register to vote, that`s literal voter suppression, because a lot of them probably won`t know that and will end up not able to vote. They will just literally wipe tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people off the rolls.

DOWD: Yeah, I mean, that`s the difficulty.

To me, Pennsylvania -- if you add Pennsylvania, Michigan, and probably Arizona and Georgia are -- to me, are the four states which are depending on -- our democracy completely depends on...

REID: Yes.

DOWD: ... because there are secretary of state candidates in Michigan, attorney general candidates, governor candidates.

And, in my view, whether or not the Democrats keep the United States Senate, in my view, will likely depend on what happens in Pennsylvania, will likely depend on the emergence of that candidate.

REID: Yes.

DOWD: I still have hope, Joy, and optimism, even with Fetterman, who`s likely to be the nominee, who looks like he`s recovering from the stroke or the incident in that, that the Democrat will be favored, because the Republican is so outside the mainstream and so outside of people`s rights and freedoms and democracy and all of that.

But it is exceedingly dangerous that the -- a major political party today has basically -- is now preoccupied by a group of voters that were always fringe throughout the last 100 years. It is now 100 percent or 80 percent of the Republican Party And it is not dependent on Donald Trump anymore.

REID: Right.

DOWD: Donald Trump can go away tomorrow...

REID: That`s right.

DOWD: ... and that monster has been given electricity and his storming across the country.

REID: Have Democrats thought through this clearly enough? Because none of those three stood down and said, let`s all just consolidate behind one.

And they are three very different candidates, an African-American, a conservative Democrat, and then Fetterman, who`s got all of his own other issues.

DOWD: No, I don`t think the Democrats are looking at this in a way that`s rational.

I think that, if you were really rational about this, one, you would look at elections and say, our democracies depend on this. Let`s put our egos to the side. Let`s put, like, our political ambitions to the side, and let`s do what`s in the best interests of the country first.

Secondly, all of the groups that are in the Democratic Party have to come together on one message, on one overarching message, which is that our rights, our freedoms, and our security, which are all dependent on democracy, are in danger.

And that ought to be the message. A hundred percent, that ought be the message for anybody running anywhere.

REID: Yes.

You would think they would just say, this Republican Party is way too extreme, you all. They`re -- they don`t have -- what solutions do they have to any of our problems? They`re just way, way, way too extreme.

But we will leave that to them to see if they figure it out.

Matthew Dowd, thank you, my friend. Appreciate you.

And that is tonight`s REIDOUT.

DOWD: Thanks, Joy.

REID: "ALL IN WITH" -- thank you.