IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

Transcript: The Rachel Maddow Show, 6/27/22

Guests: Rebecca Gomperts


The January 6 committee schedules last-minute hearing for tomorrow. Aid Access, a Europe-based organization, provides abortion services to people in other countries. There are primary races tomorrow in eight states.


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: That is "ALL IN" on this Monday night.

THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts right now.

Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris.

Chris, I have to ask you, are you going to be there tomorrow night when we do our prime time recap of tomorrow`s January 6 hearing?

HAYES: I am going to be there. I was in Los Angeles for the last one, but I will absolutely be here sitting at the table right -- one seat away from you.

MADDOW: I almost went to Los Angeles and bodily grab two and returned you to New York.

HAYES: You texted me, turn the plane around. I was like, I`m not flying.


MADDOW: It`s not really that kind of plane.

But -- you are not allowed to leave the state tomorrow. We`re going to have a lot of important work to do.

HAYES: I will definitely be there.

MADDOW: All right, I`ll see you there, my friend.

And thanks for you for joining us this hour. Happy to have you here.

One quick personal news, sort of personnel news to mention right off the top. It`s good news. I want to say congratulations to Alex Wagner, who is going to take over the slot that is now "MSNBC PRIME". This is just announced today by MSNBC. It is great news.

In terms of me, nothing about what I`m doing is changing. I am going to be doing Monday nights, from here on out, plus, I will be here for big news events, like I have been, things like the January 6 hearings, and the big Supreme Court decision on Friday on Roe versus Wade. Nothing that I am doing is changing at all, but it is great news that starting late this summer, starting mid-August, it`s going to be Alex Wagner in the chair here Tuesday through Friday, at 9:00 Eastern.

So, congratulations to Alex. Everybody here thinks this is great news, myself included. Again, you`re still stuck with me for all the same things that have been stuck with me on -- in recent weeks and months, that won`t change. But Alex is taking over that "MSNBC PRIME" spot is great news. It`s great to have the certainty. It`s great to know that it`s her, so, just want to mention that right off the bat.

But hey, speaking of the January 6th hearings, I need to tell you I was wrong. We all were wrong. Or at least things changed to make us wrong, after the fact.

You will remember that we have the two blockbuster hearings for the January 6 investigation last week. The first one was the state officials from Georgia and from Arizona, the election worker from Georgia, all testified about the threats and intimidation that Trump directed at people and individual states, to try to force them to falsify election results in those states, so he could stay in power. That was the first hearing last week.

Then, the second hearing last week was a Department of Justice officials who testified about Trump trying to use the Justice Department to overthrow the government, in order to effectuate the same outcome. So, we have those two, really big, really dramatic, really just compelling hearings last week.

And then, after those two hearings last week, I said, we said, we all said, that that will be it for a while. That the January 6th investigation was not going to convene any further hearings until at least, mid July. It turns out, that was wrong.

Today, we got a legit surprise announcement from the January 6th investigation. They are convening a surprise hearing on short notice, tomorrow, for all the other hearings they have held thus far, we`ve had a weeks notice, if not more. This one, we got less than 24 hours notice.

And we really don`t know why. We don`t know the subject of this hearing, they suddenly call for tomorrow. We do not know who the witness is going to be, or the witnesses are going to be. Most intriguingly, we don`t know what it is about the evidence and the witness testimony that are going to be presented tomorrow. That requires such urgency.

I mean, it was only a few days ago that the chairman of the investigation, Congressman Bennie Thompson, told reporters, you know, no, no, no, I have no more hearings for at least a few weeks, basically easy, nothing else going to happen until June. That was just a few days ago.

Since then, something happened that made it so this new hearing had to happen immediately, tomorrow. So, we`re going to get some expert help on that in just a moment, in terms of whether that urgency is an apparent rush on the timing. It might have something to do with, I don`t know -- sequencing the witnesses and some particular way. I think people have been coordinating their stories. Maybe there`s something potentially going on terms of preserving evidence, stopping people from tampering with, or destroying evidence.

I feel like we need expert advice on this, in part because we also know that this January 6 investigation in Congress is happening in parallel with what appears to now be a very active federal criminal investigation that at least is touching a lot of people who are involved in Trump`s plot.

Those two innings last week that I just described, those were Tuesday and Thursday. You might remember on the day between those two hearings, on Wednesday last week, it started raining federal search warrants and subpoenas.


First, we learned that a whole bunch of Republicans, and a whole bunch of different states, all involved in the forged electors, the fake electors part of the plot. The first thing we learned is that a whole bunch of them got subpoenas on Wednesday from federal agents. This, again, is the part of the plot where there were states that Biden won, which means those states were going to cast their votes for Biden in the Electoral College.

But the Trump campaign, nevertheless, had Republicans in those states create forged, fake slates of Trump votes for the Electoral College, which they then sent in from those states, as if they were the real votes.

So, Wednesday last week, Trump campaign people, some of the fake electors themselves, people involved in setting up the fake elector slates, they all got subpoenas on Wednesday. And after that, we learned that a Justice Department official, a Trump DOJ lawyer, named Jeffrey Clark, who was allegedly trying to use the power of the Justice Department to help Trump pull off this scheme. We learned Thursday morning last week, that he too had had a visit from federal agents the previous day. Except in his case, he didn`t get a subpoena the way all the other victims people dead. Jeff Clark actually had his house searched in a predawn raid, with federal agents executing a search warrant at his home, and taking all his electronic devices.

Well, now, today, we`ve learned there was yet another one, and it happened, the same day, Wednesday last week. What we learned today was that it was also Trump lawyer, John Eastman, who was an outside lawyer for Trump. He`s been portrayed by the January 6th investigation as sort of the architect of the scheme that Trump was trying to pull off, both in terms of trying to get the states to flip, and pressuring the vice president, and the fake electors.

Apparently, that same day last week, Wednesday, John Eastman, also got a visit from federal agents, they apparently confronted him as he was leaving a restaurant in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The agents told him they had a search warrant for his phone. They took his iPhone off him, bodily.

They purged on Eastman`s account of the matter. They held the phone up to his face to use his face went to unlock it. Note to self: never use a face print to lock anything.

We have all these very granular details tonight about that search warrant being served on John Eastman, and federal agents taking his phone. We have all these details because John Eastman filed a lawsuit in federal court, seeking to have the search warrant thrown out, and seeking to have his phone returned to him.

And as part of that lawsuit that he filed, he disclosed the search warrant and his own description of what happened, when these agents turned up and said, hand over your phone.

So, like I said, we are going to get some expert help on this, in just a second. We`ve got federal agents, executing search warrants -- which means a federal judge found probable cause that there`s evidence of a crime or crimes, at the location being searched. And in that case, this means in the home of one Trump lawyer, Jeffrey Clark, and on the south of another, John Eastman.

We`ve got this torrent new federal grand jury subpoena to people involved in one part of the presidents blocked, this fake electors thing. And, we`ve got this investigation that`s happening in congress, rushing now, not just to speak with a new witness, not just to get a deposition from someone, but rushing for some reason, to get public televised testimony from that person tomorrow, someone that -- for whom they`re keeping their identity a secret, apparently, right up until the start of the hearing.

And I say they`re keeping it secret, and I mean it. There is no such thing as a secret in Washington, most of the time. But with this one, there really aren`t leaks about it at all. There`s a lot of speculation, a lot of trolling going on as to who might be, but there aren`t leaks from the committee. Nobody really knows. There isn`t any informed speculation as to the witness is going to be.

So what`s going on here? Like I said, we will have expert help on that, in just a moment, and you should know in terms of thinking ahead about the news week, that hearing, that surprise hearing from the January 6 committee, it`s going to be held live at 1:00 p.m. Eastern tomorrow. We will have special coverage of that live as it happens here on MSNBC, and then, of course, tomorrow night, I will be here as part of a primetime recap of what happened in the hearing.

So whether or not you`re able to watch it live, we will recap it for you tomorrow night, in primetime, me, and the cast of thousands, starting at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, will be the primetime recap tomorrow. So, lots going on.

But even outside, even outside that -- that sort of flowing water flow of drama in the news, there`s a lot of going on in the news. In general tonight, we`ve been watching dramatic footage, and sort of scary images tonight out of rural Mendon, Missouri. That`s where there was a big derailment of an Amtrak passenger train, the southwest chief, that`s a different train that runs between Chicago and Los Angeles.


That train apparently hit a dump truck today at an intersection, multiple cars derailed and flipped over.

Now, at this hour, at least three people are known to have been killed in the crash. Two people who are passengers on board the train, one person who was in the dump truck, there is an unknown number of injuries but, there said to be a large number of people who were injured in this crash.

Southwest Chief is a storied American passenger train. It`s the kind of train for which you can buy a sleeper car. Some of these trains, they look like double-decker cars almost. There`s sleeper cars, in which people had sleeping births when the strains went over.

It`s a very scary situation. This is a huge accident, seeing all these cars overturned. It`s in a very roll area. It`s less than 300 people. In this part of Missouri, they`re coping with a big problem right now. And again, multiple deaths and a lot of people injured.

So we will let you more about that over the course of the night tonight, as we learn more about that wing crash in Missouri.

We also got a bad news update today in the case of WNBA, all star Brittney Griner. As you know, Brittney Griner was arrested in Russia in February. Just before Russia invaded Ukraine. She was arrested in mid-February just days before Russia invaded and started that war.

And basically, she has been held hostage in Russia. They`ve charged -- they have charged her with very obviously, very exaggerated like a large scale drug trafficking charges. They`ve been holding her since February.

Today, for the first time, we saw the first photos of her in Russian custody, first photos of her since her mug shot was released back in March. Today, she was photographed in handcuffs as they brought her in for a court appearance.

They are going to put her on trial, or which accounts for a trial in Putin`s Russia, later this week. A trial that`s supposed to start on Friday, in a court in which less than 1 percent of defendants are acquitted, because it`s not a real court, it`s a Putin court.

So these images today of Brittney Griner, very worrying in terms of how Russia`s handling her case. We`ll have more coming up on that, a later this hour.

We`re also going to be speaking this hour with a doctor, a doctor from the Netherlands, who has been leaving the way for years now on a very delicate race, sensitive topic, of how to get women all over the world access to abortion when the place of those women live has made it illegal or impossible to get. And this was an international news story for us, but now, of course, it`s our story as well here in America, after the Supreme Court`s ruling on Friday overturning Roe versus Wade.

As of right now, there are seven different states that say they`re actively enforcing a total ban on abortion. But that doesn`t fully account for what`s going on. It doesn`t, for example, account for Texas, where the states so-called sugar ban technically isn`t legally in effect yet, but nevertheless, the states Republican attorney general just put claims on Twitter, that all abortions are now illegal in Texas. And so, Texas clinics have stopped providing abortions now, even though the lawful prohibition in Texas isn`t actually clear at all, beyond that intimidation effort from the Republican state attorney general.

The list of states with an active ban on abortion as of right now, also doesn`t include, for example, the state of Arizona. But because of legal confusion in Arizona as well, we are told that eight of the nine clinics that provide abortions in Arizona have stopped providing abortions there too. So, it`s almost a total ban in Arizona that`s in effect, even though legal confusion would suggest that that`s not happening here.

Earlier in the day today, Louisiana was one of the states that said they weren`t enforcing a total legal ban on abortion. But then, the Louisiana ban was blocked by a court issued a temporary restraining order, stopping the state of Louisiana from enforcing their ban. Same thing just happened in Utah tonight. Just in the last few hours.

So, Utah had said they were totally banning abortion, they were legally enforcing their ban. But now, abortions can resume in Utah, just for the next 14 days. So -- it`s a mess. And with everything this uncertain, with the abortion providers and doctors, facing threats of ten years in prison, and all these, you know, insanely draconian felony charges, and all these in all these red states, with various types of abortion. Everything is uncertain.

Groups who support abortion rights, are talking about stuff that seemed, you know, like thought experiments, as recently as, you know, four days ago. Stuff that seemed like fantastical sci-fi approaches, to solving the problem of abortion access for American women.


They`re now talking about getting up and running, things like sending of setting up mobile clinics, just on the other side on the state border, from states where abortion is being banned. Literally getting a drive-through clinic going, and abortion clinic and an RV, or in some sort of hand they can use, just over the state line.

For pregnancies that are less than ten weeks underway, most abortions can now be done safely by just taking a pill, just by taking abortion inducing medication, effectively. But, Republican governors and Republican attorneys general, and Republican state legislatures are saying they`re going to try to block you from even being able to access that bill in the privacy of your own home. That bill which is an FDA approved medication.

So, abortion rights advocates are stepping up their efforts to get women access to those meds, despite what Republicans are trying to do, and in Republican-controlled states, to block even that. We`re going to have an update tonight on that very real fight, with one of the people who pioneered that approach globally. Americans now have a lot to learn from her, in terms of what she`s been able to accomplish. It has been, again, and international news story for years. It is now our domestic truth as well. That`s ahead this hour.

But again, just one of those days in which so much is happening. Russia, today, shot missiles into a crowded civilian target today in Ukraine. Russia shot missiles today into a shopping center, with thousands of people in sides of it.

This, of course, as Russia says they`re only shooting at military targets. Oh, yeah, literally, this was a mall.

President Biden was at the G7 today, where G7 leaders talked about artificially forcing down the price of Russian oil, so Putin can`t use it to keep funding his war, let alone funding his whole sclerotic economy.

Meanwhile, the former president, President Trump, today, he saw shares in his new media company, swirled in the toilet, when the company had to announce in a regulatory filing that its entire board of directors just got served with federal grand jury subpoenas from SDNY, from federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New York. It had previously been known that Trump`s new media business venture was being investigated by the SEC, the Securities Exchange and Commission, and by an entity called FINRA, which is a financial industry watchdog.

But now, apparently, it`s federal prosecutors as well. So, maybe that`s a criminal investigation now.

I mean, if you`re trying to keep up, I think this is everything, but maybe there is more. Just off the top of my head, the former president is facing state criminal investigators in Georgia. And investigation there related to his efforts to overthrow the government and stay in power. Also, a state civil investigation in New York, related to alleged fraud in his family business. His family business has already been criminally indicted as well in New York. His annual media business may also now be under federal criminal investigation, these brand-new subpoenas that just went out.

One of his loyalists lawyers that the Justice Department who allegedly help with his overthrow the government plot, he just had a search warrant executed at his home. One of his outside lawyers, who also allegedly helped to overthrow the government block, just had a search warrant executed for his phone.

I mean -- this is fine, right? This is normal.

There`s eight states having primaries and runoff elections tomorrow. And it is amazing that a very basic level that people assert concerning themselves with the potency of endorsements in some of those races, from that guy who just described.

I mean, we`re trying to figure out if even his lawyers are potentially going to jail. And he`s the most important figure in Republican Party politics, still, really?

It`s amazing. But let`s talk about the situation tomorrow, a surprise witness or witnesses who apparently were not going to know the identity of until this last-minute surprise January 6 hearing kicks off at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. Something urgent about the evidence the investigators have obtained, or witness testimony they`re about to show us tomorrow, that require them to up and end their schedule and rush this hearing out on zero notice.

What should we know about that, what should we know about how investigators, thinking about things like this, what is the timing tell us is the rush here likely to be about preserving evidence, or making sure one piece of witness testimony comes out before another. I mean, the Department of Justice appears to have coordinated a one day surprise snowstorm, of subpoenas and search warrants for people allegedly involved in parts of Trump`s scheme stay in power.

Now, we`ve got the surprise public hearing being announced less than a week after the Justice Department took those dramatic steps last week. Are those things connected? What`s going on here? What can we discern from what we`ve been allowed to see thus far?

Joining us now, is Barbara McQuade. She`s former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan. She`s now professor the University of Michigan Law School.

Barbara, it`s great to see you.


Thank you very much for taking the time to be here tonight

BARBARA MCQUADE, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Thanks for having me, Rachel.

MADDOW: So, let me ask if I`m asking questions that make sense. Obviously, we don`t know what`s going to be happening at this hearing tomorrow. There`s a lot we don`t know. In particular about the federal grand jury investigation, or investigations that seem to be underway.

But given what we can`t see, is there reason to either make an informed bit of speculation or to say that we know how some of these things might interrelate?

MCQUADE: Yeah, I don`t think we know but I think we can make an educated guess. Prosecutors are fond of saying there`s no such thing as coincidences. And I have to believe that these things are related in some way.

You may recall, that the hearing day for DOJ day, which was held last Thursday, was actually supposed to be on the prior Wednesday. That got mysteriously delayed, and the reason for it was that their video guys need to get their act together, which didn`t ring true in light of the heroic job they had done just two days earlier in the Bill Stepien case when his wife went into labor, these are pretty professional people.

And so, that delay struck me as a bit odd, and we find out that last Wednesday was this day when there was a barrage of search warrants, grand jury subpoenas going out, and was only the next day the Justice Department day happened before the January 6 hearing.

It does seem like there is a coordination, now that we`ve got this hurry up hearing tomorrow, all of a sudden. It does sort of suggest that they`re trying to beat something.

What that is, I don`t know, whether they`re concerned about a leak or that this person might get cold feet, maybe that`s what it is. But it does seem that the DOJ investigation, and the committees investigation have now become inter related.

MADDOW: In terms of that rush, I know that a federal criminal trial environment for example. If you`re in district court trial in a federal section, these things have to be all worked out through the judge, everybody needs to be noticed, the idea of a surprise witness, like you get on TV, doesn`t really function in that same way in a federal criminal trial environment.

Obviously, the January 6 investigators in Congress do not need to coordinate this with anybody other than Bennie Thompson`s office. They don`t need to get a judge to sign off on these things.

But when you do sort of change the timing up, when you do have to rush something, is it possible, or should we be thinking about things like security concerns, should we be thinking about other ways in which witnesses might be potentially safer or better protected in terms of the value of their testimony, by moving them up and making them a surprise?

MCQUADE: I think so. I don`t know that its security in the sense that we`re worried about Donald Trump and his minions attacking this person. Or it`s simply security from the same kinds of people who answer the calls to storm the Capitol on January 6.

So, witness security is certainly one, but witness integrity that your may be concerned about someone getting to him or her, about trying to tamper with the witness, or even intimidate the witness. That is a possibility.

This community is also seem very close hold on, worried about leaks, not wanting for example to share the transcripts with the Justice Department, until they`re down with them, that they want to maximize the impact of a disclosure. And so, perhaps they worry about someone stealing their thunder if too much time passes before this witness testifies publicly.

MADDOW: Barbara, let me ask you about one other aspect of this, and this may just be, it seems like in one sense like a picayune point, but maybe it`s important tons of us understanding the scale what`s happening and, people`s potential legal jeopardy.

But NBC News has learned that when Jeffrey Clark, Trump`s Justice Department official, when his home was searched in the predawn hours Wednesday last week, it was federal agents who executed that federal search warrant, which was signed off on by a federal judge. But they were not FBI agents. That was other types of federal agents.

In John Eastman`s case, which we learn about today, he says that it was agents again not from the FBI, but from the office of inspector general at the Justice Department, that were the agents who executed the search warrant and took his phone.

What should is that -- what should we, as a sort of lay observers, understand about that?

MCQUADE: You know, what it could signal is the office of inspector general investigates internal DOJ crime, fraud waste or abuse. So to the extent Jeffrey Clark is being investigated for abusing his up office, for example, that makes the sense to me that they would go to the office of inspector general.

John Eastman, of course, was not a DOJ employee, but to the extent he`s being seen as a coconspirator, with someone inside the Justice Department. That could explain the use of the office of inspector general, or it could be something as simple as, they`ve got the best lap for exploiting days, and so, the part of the Justice Department, and so, they will use.

So, I think it`s important not to read too much into it, but it does maybe suggest that the roads are leading through Jeffrey Clark as the centerpiece of this investigation.

MADDOW: Barbara McQuade, U.S. attorney, former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan -- Barb, it`s always good to have you here.


These are -- I feel like we`re going to know a lot more soon. We will certainly know a lot more this time tomorrow night. Thanks for helping us understand as far as we know now.

MCQUADE: You bet. Thanks, Rachel.

MADDOW: All right. We got much more ahead for you tonight. Stay with us.


MADDOW: So, this is new. This is something I don`t think we`ve seen before. It`s from "The New York Times" today.

Quote, within a few days, Just the Pill, a nonprofit organization that arranges for women to obtain abortion bills, Just the Pill plans to deploy in Colorado the first of what will become a flea of mobile clinics to park along state borders providing consultations for medication abortions and dispensing bells.


Called quote, abortion delivered, the clinic-on-wheels program will also provide surgical abortions for patients who prefer that, or too far along in pregnancy for a medication abortion. The program designed to reach patients from states like Texas, Oklahoma, and South Dakota, that quickly outlawed abortion after the court decision, as well as other states like Utah that are expected to manner sharply restrict abortions soon.

So, that`s one potential on the ground response to the Supreme Court decision overturning Roe versus Wade, overturning the right for illegal abortion. Put abortion services on wheels, and take them to the border is a states where abortions outlawed.

So, American women cannot get a legal abortion in state X, but if they take a few steps over the border, from state tax into state Y, then they can.

Again, this was sort of a thought experiment kind of idea, a dystopian sci- fi concept in terms of how American women can still be able to retain the right to make decisions about the most intimate decisions in their lives. It`s now apparently going to affect within days, another way for women in states with abortion bans, to access abortion maybe for them to get abortion pills, which again you can use for many abortions in the first ten weeks or so a pregnancy.

If you get abortion pills, prescribed by a provider overseas, provider in another country whose therefore beyond the reach of U.S. state law is designed to block that sort of thing. That`s an approach pioneered by a doctor named Rebecca Gomperts. She`s a Dutch doctor. She has spent decades figuring out innovative ways to get abortion services to women in countries where abortion is illegal.

Her organization Women on Waves has, for example, provided abortions on ships floating in international water. She then created Women on Web, to mail abortion pills to patients all around the globe. In 2018, she saw on to the future and decided that the United States was joining the ranks of country needing her group services.

She then launched a group called, Aid Access, specifically to provide medication abortions to patients in the United States in states that have banned telemedicine abortions. Physicians overseas do the video consultations, with women in the U.S., and then the pills are often mailed from overseas as well.

We have entered a new era in America, one in which an overseas organization like aid access, will not be the only way to get a telemedicine abortion in states, and maybe the only way period to get an abortion in about half the states in the Union.

The work that Dr. Gomperts has been doing globally, figuring out how to get women abortion services, when their countries have made it illegal, that`s now work that I need to be done across borders inside the United States as well. Figure out how to get abortion services to women in states where it is illegal.

The time has come, what do Americans now need to learn, what can Americans learn from somebody who has been doing this pioneering work for decades.

Joining us now is Dr. Rebecca Gomperts. She is the founder of Women on Waves, and Aid Access.

Dr. Gomperts, I really appreciate you joining us especially given how late it is where you are. It`s really kind of you to be here.

DR. REBECCA GOMPERTS, FOUNDER, AID ACCESS: Thank you so much, Rachel, for finding me, and inviting me to the show.

MADDOW: Let me ask you first, about the Roe v. Wade decision by the United States Supreme Court. I think it was not -- it could not be described as a surprise in this country, even though I think it was still a shock.

I know enough about your work to know that you probably thought coming better than maybe some of us here did. And you are also taking steps even ahead of that ruling to mitigate some of the severe restrictions that states have already put on abortion access, even with the Roe law still in place?

GOMPERTS: Well, we started getting requests between United States for a few years within the web. And the reason that women were looking for access was because they could often not afford the abortion services locally. But also privacy reasons for example, people who are living in domestic violence, or they couldn`t travel because the distance is the travel already quite long.

So, there was already -- there were already women that weren`t able to access abortion in the U.S. before the ruling.


And it`s just really unfortunate that Trump has been able to appoint three court judges to the Supreme Court. And now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned. And, of course, here in Europe, we really work with trembling to see how so many of the other human rights that have been recognized for long in the United States right now over -- might now disappear basically.

MADDOW: You have pioneered from an international perspective, this tactic essentially of getting women access to medication abortion, getting them the pills, in ways that essentially work restrictions at the local or national level, they`re designed to prevent that. What should Americans now understand about whether or not medication abortion can offer American women a way to retain this right once states try to make it go away?

We`ve already seen some Republican controlled states say they will essentially block women from getting abortion medication, from getting tell anyway they can, trying to block him from being sent in the mail, trying to block them from leaving to go to other states to get them, what do you see about this sort of a height of that legal barrier when it comes to medication abortion specifically?

GOMPERTS: Well, we`ve seen another country, where abortion is illegal, is that there`s no way that those pills can be stopped. There will be women`s organizations, other people, that will bring in the medicines, to make sure that women will have it, and be able to use it when they need it.

But I think, what`s going to be, what will make it much harder for many, and especially the more vulnerable women, for them in might really not possible to get -- to get pills. What we see, is that won`t stop people from having abortions, and these are actually also innocent.

We have already received at Aid Access where people were writing about how they were trying to induce their abortion, by, for example, using herpes or jumping off stairs, OR using knitting needles.

So there`s -- they will be women that won`t be able to access the pills, and might try to harm themselves to end pregnancies. And then, of course, the women that are later in pregnancies, the pills can still be used, it`s still safe to use them also after 12 weeks.

The World Health Organization is supporting home used to 12 weeks. But afterwards, the research now shows that it`s also safe to do, people have to be close to emergency care. And one of the concerns that we have, we`ve seen it, sometimes doctors support emergency wards, they don`t want to help people when they present with a miscarriage or an abortion, because they`re scared, that that will make them -- that they will be -- could be prosecuted under strict abortion laws.

So, for example, in Ireland, (INAUDIBLE) this happens and important as well. And I think one of the things that`s very important to teach the doctors that they can help women, when their lives are in danger, and they need medical care.

MADDOW: That`s terrifying. Not only because we`ve seen it happen, as you just described, but the prospect that health care providers will see a woman in extremists, who is naturally miscarried, or taken medication abortion, for some reason she has a complication that could hurt her and could kill her, and they`ll stand by because they`re afraid of themselves being prosecuted.

Are there any sort of lessons learned that you can convey to us as a country where abortion is newly-illegal in terms of the most effective organizing, the most potent work that people who support abortion rights can do to try to save women`s lives?

GOMPERTS: I think at this moment, people in the U.S. can do is they make sure that they have the abortion pills at home, for when they need it, or when a friend needs it. So, everybody should just get the abortion pills as much as they can. So, that it`s everywhere and that it makes it easier for women when they need it.

MADDOW: Dr. Rebecca Gomperts, thank you so much for your time, and your insight tonight. I think we`re sailing into water uncharted waters for us. You know the much better than we do. Thank you for being here with us tonight. I appreciate it.

GOMPERTS: Thank you. Thank you.

MADDOW: All right. We got more news ahead tonight. Stay with us.




REP. MARY MILLER (R-IL): President Trump on behalf of all the MAGA patriots in America, I want to thank you for the historic victory for white life in the Supreme Court yesterday.



MADDOW: The historic victory for a white life in the Supreme Court yesterday.

That was Illinois Republican congresswoman, member of Congress, Mary Miller, at a campaign rally the former President Trump this weekend. Before that Saturday rally, Congresswoman Mary Miller was probably best known for telling attendees a previous rally about what she thinks Hitler got right. Hitler was right on, what -- let me stop you there, ma`am.

But after the stuff Hitler was right about, she`s kind of faded into the background.


There she was this weekend calling the Supreme Court decision on Roe versus Wade a victory for white life.

Now, Congresswoman Mary Miller`s office put out a statement saying that moment in her speech was a mistake, just a misstatement. She meant to say the right to life. But regardless of whether or not what she said was intentionally said or not, what`s she actually said out loud very clearly was at the Supreme Court ruling was a victory for white life. And then you can see her there clapping along as the crowd gave a hearty cheer for white life.

And as the people in the Blacks for Trump t-shirts behind them kind of didn`t know what to do.

The reason Trump held that rally as we can with Congresswoman Hitler was right Mary Miller white life, is because tomorrow, she`s going to face off in a primary against one of her fellow Republican members of Congress, Rodney Davis. The redistricting process in their state squeeze those two Republicans into one district, and so, they`ve got a primary tomorrow. Trump is obviously supporting the Hitler was right victory for white life lady. The race tomorrow, we`ll start to see if she gets if we see that she stays in Congress, and so, therefore, that`ll be one to watch.

But there are primary races tomorrow in eight states altogether. That one is in Illinois. There`s also races in Colorado, Mississippi, Nebraska, New York, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah. There`s frankly, a bunch of doozies in a bunch of those states.

Colorado Republicans, tomorrow, for example, are going to be choosing their candidate for the top job overseeing elections across the entire state of Colorado. And one of the Republican candidates in that secretary of state race, is this woman Tina Peters.

Now, if that name Tina Peter sounds familiar, it`s because Tina Peters keeps making national news, because she is the county clerk in Colorado who`s currently under indictment charged with seven felonies and three misdemeanors after she allegedly tampered with official voting equipment and gave sensitive voter information to election conspiracy theorists that they probably posted it all online, including all the passwords.

A Colorado judge has already barred Tina Peters from overseeing the 2022 elections in the county where she`s the county clerk. But now, she`s running to oversee elections for the entire state of Colorado.

Tina Peters, that said, is not the only that kind of candidate who`s on the ballot in Colorado tomorrow. One of the Republican candidates in the primary race for governor tomorrow as this man, Greg Lopez. He`s running on a platform in Colorado that Republican vote should count more than Democratic votes. Seriously? He says if he`s governor, he will change Colorado`s election laws, so votes from rural Republican-leaning areas with count more, they`d be worth more than votes from urban Democratic-leaning cities. Okay.

In Oklahoma tomorrow, Republicans are set to choose their candidate to replace retiring Senator James Mountain Inhofe. Among the dozen or so Republicans running in that race, is another familiar face. His name is Scott Pruitt. He was head of the EPA under Trump, remember him? He`s best known for competing sort of neck and neck with Trump`s interior secretary Ryan Zinke, for the title of who could rack up the most scandals in the shortest tenure on Trump`s cabinet.

Scott Pruitt`s list of scandals at the EPA was truly jaw-dropping, run the gamut from spending thousands of taxpayer dollars on private flights, and tactical pants, what tactics do pants use? He allegedly used his office to try to get his wife her own Chick-a-filet franchise? He also had taxpayers pay for a soundproof phone booth that he installed in his EPA administrator office, for his high security soundproof chats. Now, he wants to be the Republican nominee for Senate in the great state of Oklahoma.

Like I said, there`s a lot of races to keep an eye on tomorrow, in Illinois, Oklahoma -- Illinois and Oklahoma, polls close at 8:00 Eastern Time tomorrow. In Colorado, polls are going to close at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

Watch this space.



MADDOW: It`s been nearly four and a half months since WNBA star, two-time Olympic gold medalist, Brittney Griner, was arrested in Russia. She was arrested in a Moscow airport in February just a week before Russia invaded Ukraine. The ridiculous charge for which she was arrested, that Russian officials say they found traces of cannabis oil in empty vape cartridges in her luggage. Okay.

They`ve laid patently ridiculous charges against her, of large-scale drug trafficking for that. Today for the first time since her arrest, we saw her in court. Russian authorities are accusing her of smuggling a significant amount of a narcotic substance.

We also learned today that are trials going to begin this week, on Friday. She`s facing a prison sentence of up to 10 years. And in terms of the court where these charges are going to be heard, fewer than 1 percent of defendants in Russian criminal cases in this kind of a court are acquitted. It`s sort of a chronicle of conviction foretold.


On Friday, in Washington, the House of Representatives passed a bipartisan resolution calling for her release. The State Department put out a statement today saying, quote: The Russian Federation has wrongfully detained U.S. citizen Brittney Griner. We will continue to press for her release. And while that`s all well and good in Washington, this is Putin`s Russia, and in Putin`s Russia, the reality is that Brittney Griner`s basically being held as an American hostage. And things are about to get much worse for her.

Watch this space.


MADDOW: Quick reminder before we go. As we`ve been reporting today, the January 6th investigation added a surprise unexpected here into the calendar for tomorrow. They said they`re going to present a recently obtained evidence, and received witness testimony.

No, we don`t have an obvious idea with this is about but we are intrigue. That surprised hearing is scheduled for 1:00 p.m. Eastern, tomorrow. MSNBC`s going to have live coverage starting at noon.

And then, tomorrow night, 8:00 Eastern, I will help host a primetime recap of that hearing, alongside a whole boatload of my beloved colleagues.

Anyway, I don`t know what`s going to happen. I`m not going to sleep or wink, which means you should get a good night sleep tonight, if only to be fully awake for me, really, really botching everything tomorrow on live TV. I`ll see you then.


Good evening, Lawrence.