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The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 9/22/2016

Guests: Debbie Stabenow

Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW Date: September 22, 2016 Guest: Debbie Stabenow

CHRIS HAYES, "ALL IN" HOST: All right. Just four days until that debate. You can see it here on MSNBC, Monday at 9:00 p.m.

Make sure to tune in on Sunday for a special edition of "ALL IN" at 7:00 p.m., one hour early. And that makes it, does it for us, ALL IN, for this evening.

THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thank you, my friend.

HAYES: You bet.

MADDOW: And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour.

When they passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, there was a lot of worry by people that supported the legislation that even though it was doing the right thing, even though it was taking the country in the right direction, even though it would alleviate some of the most acute injustices in the country that at the time were really tearing things apart, people who supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964, even the people who built and wrote the Civil Rights Act of 1964, they had to worry that that legislation might actually make things worse in the country before it made them better. Even when they were writing that bill, they were anticipating rejection and upset that something called a Civil Rights Act might bring about in many parts of this country.

And so, as part of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, they wrote in basically something that they didn`t give too much attention to, but something that they wanted to help head off that prospect. They created a whole new division within the federal government, ultimately a whole new part of the Justice Department, to try to head off what they thought might be upset and rejection and consternation in part caused by the Civil Rights Act itself.

And they didn`t do it in a flashy way. They tucked it into page 27 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Even to this day, it`s never had that much attention.

But part of the reason for that is when they created this new part of the government, they mandated that it wouldn`t get too much attention. It`s interesting. It`s not exactly secret, but by statute, by the law that it was created by in 1964, it`s not allowed as an agency to toot its own horn. They`re not allowed to get publicity.

Look at this. This is section 1003 Subsection B of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. "The activities of all officers and employees of the service shall be conducted in confidence and without publicity. And the service shall hold confidential any information acquired in the regular performance of its duties. Any officer or other employee of the service who shall make in any manner whatsoever, in any information in violation of this subsection shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be fined to not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year."

That`s like a serious thing, right? If you work for this newly created part of the government established by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, if you work for them and you talk about it, you seek publicity for what you do, you will go to prison for a year. Which is not a typical thing for a government agency, right?

And it sounds ominous. If this were part of the Justice Department that was about law enforcement, right, about prosecuting cases or investigating crimes, but explicitly this part of the Justice Department is not that.

This is also from the statute that created this agency, "No investigation, no prosecuting. Shall not engage in the performance of investigative or prosecuting fun prosecuting functions." Right? That`s what the Justice Department does, right? They investigate stuff and they prosecute stuff, but not this new part of it that they created in the Civil Rights Act. It`s really interesting.

What this odd little, very low profile part of the Justice Department does, what it was created for in 1964 and what it still does to this day very quietly is that they basically are the U.N. peacekeepers for home. They basically try to make peace here at home in the United States domestically specifically when racial division threatens to tear us up as a nation.

Look, "It shall be the function of this service to provide assistance to communities and persons therein in resulting disputes, disagreements or difficulties relating to discriminatory practices based on race, color or national origin. The service may offer its services in cases of such disputes, disagreements or difficulties whenever peaceful relations among the citizens of the community involved are threatened thereby."

The shorthand reference for what this part of the Justice Department does is it`s right there in the statute. It`s conciliation assistance. We have a department of conciliation assistance as a country.

One of the things our taxpayers pay for is a department of conciliation assistance particularly for racial strife among us as Americans. And you don`t hear about it because they do not talk about this work. By mandate of the statute that created them in 1964, they`re ordered to work with local authorities, they`re ordered to work with local communities. They`re also ordered under pain of prison that they need to keep themselves out of the spotlight. Do not talk to the media, do not attract publicity, do not make yourselves part of the story.

If you have been looking at the last couple nights of conflagration in the streets of Charlotte, North Carolina, if you have been thinking that, yes, some conciliation assistance might be just the thing here, now we know that officers, federal agents from this very, very low profile part of the Department of Justice, they`re on their way to Charlotte, if they`re not there already.

Attorney General Loretta Lynch announced that she dispatched federal officers from this section of the Department of Justice, the community relations service to go try to help out in Charlotte.

We still don`t know what`s going to happen in the streets there overnight. These are some live shots of Charlotte tonight. Companies like Wells Fargo and Bank of America and Duke Energy, really big employers in Charlotte, they told employees to stay home, work from home today. North Carolina authorities today announced that in the streets tonight we will see the National Guard protecting buildings. We will see North Carolina state troopers protecting traffic. We will see riot-geared Charlotte police in the streets again with protesters for the third straight day.

This follows two nights of tear gas and property damage and violent protest and peaceful protest, and anger, and upset, and flash bang grenades and pepper ball guns and injuries to police and protesters, including one man who was shot last night who was on life support all day today and who died late this afternoon.

But in addition to all the people, all those forces that we know to expect in the streets of Charlotte, we also now know to expect Department of Justice federal conciliators. Basically trained peacemakers who do not talk about their work but who try to stabilize the situation when racial conflict and racial tensions and racially inflicted community crises start tearing American places apart.

They were deployed after the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, two years ago. They were deployed after the death of Eric Garner at the hands of Staten Island police in New York. They were deployed after the mass murder of Sikhs in the Sikh temple, a white supremacist in Wisconsin.

They were deployed after Trayvon Martin was killed in Florida. Local faith leaders in that community in Sanford, Florida, praised those Department of Justice peacekeepers for their low-key role in that city after Trayvon Martin`s death for being there consistently and then for helping, for trying to be a bridge to the community from the authorities and from the authorities to the community. They praised them for basically just playing an authoritative role and quietly negotiating deals and negotiating arrangements and facilitating understandings, quiet, low-key, behind the scene understandings between community groups and faith groups and the families affected and law enforcement and the local authorities.

To try to just make these tense, difficult situations -- I mean, they don`t make them go away, but they try to make them less unpredictable, less chaotic. They try to use more communication, low-key communication to prevent more violence.

We`re a country with a lot of history of racially charged strife and protest and violence. Not over just years and decades, but over centuries. And over the last half century or so that history has led to us the point where we have basically secret national institutional assets that spring into action when things like this happen to try to help. We have a federal division of conciliation assistance specifically for racial strife, and they don`t like to talk about it, but they know when they need to hit the streets.

Even though we have been through a lot of iterations of racism and violence along racial lines and racial upset and protest, that still does not mean that the outcome on any given night is predictable. It doesn`t mean the outcome from any particular incident is predictable. Again, these are live shots in Charlotte, North Carolina, tonight.

Today, we saw these two recent fatal police shooting stories go two very different directions. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, where Terence Crutcher was killed by police last week, the police department, of course, released the video that they had of that shooting several days ago. There have been protests and considerable community upset in Tulsa in response to that shooting but the protests have been mostly prayerful and somber.

Today, the district attorney announced that the officer who shot Terence Crutcher will be charged in conjunction with his death. That officer will be charged with first-degree manslaughter. Terence Crutcher, the man who was shot, was 40 years old.

His twin sister is a doctor in Alabama. This was her reaction to the news of the charging of the officer in her twin brother`s death today.


DR. TIFFANY CRUTCHER, SISTER OF Tulsa POLICE SHOOTING VICTIM: First of all, God gives all the glory out of all of this.


CRUTCHER: And we`re just grateful. But while we are pleased to learn that the officer who senselessly killed my beloved twin brother will face criminal charges for her reckless act, we understand that nothing will bring him back. Our goal now as a family is to ensure that this never happens to another innocent citizen.

The chain breaks here. We`re going to break the chains of injustice. We`re going to break the chains of police brutality.


CRUTCHER: The chain breaks right here in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

So, I`m challenging everyone, everyone, everyone from all different walks of life to join with us as we continue to move forward, because we know the history of these cases. We know this is the formality. We know she`s been charged, but then we get no convictions.

We`re demanding full prosecution. We want a conviction. And when that happens -- this is a small victory. But we know we got get ready to fight this war. And so we want for everyone, the community, the world, to join arms, lock arms with us as we go out and make everyone aware that today we can change this nation. We can heal this nation.


MADDOW: That was Terence Crutcher`s twin sister responding to the news today that the Tulsa police officer who shot and killed her brother last week, that officer has been charged with manslaughter in the first degree. That`s Tulsa.

Now, 850 miles due east in Charlotte, North Carolina, police have still not released the video that they say they have of the police shooting of Keith Lamont Scott. As of this evening, they have shown what video they have to Keith Lamont Scott`s family and their attorneys.

This is the statement that was released by the family tonight. This was released through attorneys that are now working with the family. "Keith Lamont Scott`s wife and other members of her family viewed two videos captured by police dashboard and body cameras that showed Mr. Scott`s shooting death. After watching the videos, the family again has more questions than answers.

When told by police to exit his vehicle, Mr. Scott did so in a very calm, nonaggressive manner. While police did give him several commands, he did not aggressively approach them or raise his hands at members of law enforcement at any time.

It`s impossible to discern from the videos what, if anything, Mr. Scott`s holding in his hands. When he was shot and killed, Mr. Scott`s hands were by his side and he was slowly walking backwards.

It was incredibly difficult for members of the Scott family to view these videos but as a matter of greater good and transparency, the Scott family asks that the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department publicly release the videos that they watched today.

We`ll continue our own investigation into Mr. Scott`s death. For those who wish to protest, we urge you to do so peacefully."

So, again, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, police did release the videos they had of the fatal shooting of Terence Crutcher. They released them to the public. Today, charges brought against the officer in that shooting.

In North Carolina in contrast, where these live images are from tonight, in North Carolina, the family of Keith Lamont Scott has now been shown dash cam and body cam videos from the scene if Mr. Scott being shot and killed on Tuesday. But the authorities there saying, although they`ve shown the family, they are not indicating that they will release those videos to the public even though the family has now called for that to happen.

So, we are keeping an eye on the streets of Charlotte tonight. We`re obviously hoping that even if there is a third straight night of big protests, they`ll not be the kind of violent protests that have wracked that city.

But while we watch that response, there are still at the core of the case that has led to this protest. There are still just factual lacunae, right? Outstanding, conflict accounts of the circumstances of Keith Lamont Scott`s death. Family and bystanders asserting that Mr. Scott was armed only with a book when people killed him. Police, on the other hand, still asserting he was armed with a gun.

Honestly, even if he was armed with a gun, it`s not totally clear whether having a handgun in and of itself if that`s cause for police to shoot a man, particularly in North Carolina which is supposed to be a proud open carry state where it is absolutely legal for law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm even in the presence of their local police officers.

Joining us now, as we keep an eye on what`s happening in Charlotte is Joy Reid, the host of "A.M. JOY", weekend mornings here on MSNBC.

Joy, it`s good to have you here.

JOY REID, HOST, "A.M. JOY": Thank you. Always good to be here.

MADDOW: I was running down some of that context because I feel like even though every situation is different, we also have some expectations as a country as to what we get to know --

REID: Right.

MADDOW: -- who helps, who is not helpful.

REID: Mm-hmm.

MADDOW: I mean, there was so much of the focus of the last couple years has been this idea that the key to police accountability is cameras.

REID: Right.

MADDOW: Body cams, dash cams and the release of those videos to the public when something like this happens.

How do you assess that with regard to how Tulsa has gone down and what we`re seeing right now in Charlotte?

REID: Well, I mean, I think you made the salient point because you can see the difference, right? You had very swift action in Tulsa not only to release the video but to assess whether charges should be filed, to actually file charges. That`s what people expect, right?

When what you see before your eyes looks like a homicide, quite frankly, people have an expectation that`s attached to that. So, what happened in Tulsa, I think, once that video was released, the logical conclusion was that there should be some sort of charge because you saw this man had his hands in the air, it was quite clear. There was no question that Mr. Crutcher had his hands in the air. So, put a pin in that.

Then you go to North Carolina where the police chief immediately came out and backed up the officer`s account. Immediately implied that there was a gun involved only to now have to come out and say, well, the video doesn`t definitively show whether Keith Lamont Scott had a gun.

As you pointed out, even if he did, we now have to raise the question whether open carry laws even apply to African-Americans, because we`ve seen in cases like Tamir Rice, which is an open carry state, it was a toy, but even if it was a gun, it is legal to openly carry a gun.

We`ve seen incidences of open carry advocates carrying not just hand guns but long guns, dangerous looking AR-15 rifles in full view of police and nothing happens, walking through Walmart, walking through stores, walking through restaurants, terrifying the people who are patrons. Someone calls 911. Nothing happens to the person.

But police officers implying that an African-American, a black man or even a child who has what they think looks like a gun, they feel they have the right to shoot him.

MADDOW: Or reaching toward something that might be a gun even though nothing is seen at all?

REID: Go back to Amado Diallo, a wallet, right? And the same story applied. We thought he had gun. You know, we felt we had to kill him.

You go back to Sean Bell. You go back to Patrick Dorismond in New York. Those are in New York which is not an open carry state.

You`re now talking about North Carolina. And, by the way, the governor of that state has signed into law a bill that would make it even harder to get the video. It would actually seal dash cam and body cam video so that the public would never get to see it.

MADDOW: And the law, it`s interesting, we were talking in my news meeting today. That law is due to go into effect next month.

REID: That`s right.

MADDOW: So, there`s some question in North Carolina as there`s obviously very, very intense public pressure that this video ought to be released in part because of the parallel situation with Tulsa but now tonight because the family having seen the video wants it released.

REID: Right.

MADDOW: It`s possible that one of the options that North Carolina authorities believe they have is to run out the clock until that law comes into effect in early October.

REID: That`s right. And what you`re seeing here is that the police unions are fighting to have less and less and less disclosure. They believe that the presence of cameras is actually making officers reticent to do their jobs and putting them in legal jeopardy even though the legal jeopardy, let`s be honest, it`s pretty minimal. It`s very rare that police officers go to prison for shooting a civilian. It`s almost unheard of, right?

So, a conviction in the Tulsa case would actually be shocking, because it rarely happened even when they`re charged. But police are pushing so hard to have less and less and less disclosure. You add that to a state like North Carolina, which is regressive in any number of ways, go through voting rights, health care, et cetera, and you have this sort of collusion between public officials elected by the public, and the people who are charged with the public trust, police officers, the armed agents of the state, essentially saying to citizens, you don`t have the right to know what we`re doing.

Well, you know what? Police officers are armed agents of the state. They`re part of the government. We pay their salaries. They ostensibly work for us. How can they assert that the public doesn`t have a right to see what they`re doing? It`s shocking.

And if you just go a few miles away by the way, North Charleston, you saw Justin Bamberg on earlier, another client is the family of Walter Scott, in that case, the police came out and immediately back up the officer`s claim, immediately claimed that Walter Scott was a threat only to find out because of civilian video that all of that was a lie and charges apply there.

MADDOW: Because there happened to be a bystander.

REID: Just happened to be there.

MADDOW: Joy Reid, host of "A.M. JOY", weekend mornings here on MSNBC. Joy, thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate it. I know it`s been a long day for you already.

We`ve got much more to come tonight including a report from live on the ground in Charlotte next.

We`ve also got some brand-new and exclusive both polling data and actual voting data, the first voting data in in the presidential election. We`ve got that here exclusively tonight. The results will surprise you.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: We do have some breaking news out of Charlotte. This has just crossed in the past couple of minutes. Right now, it is just after 9:20 p.m. Eastern Time.

And the mayor of Charlotte, North Carolina, Jennifer Roberts, has just signed an order for a curfew in Charlotte that will go into effect at midnight. This is being reported on air by our NBC affiliate in Charlotte, WCNC, but what this means is that the large number of protesters that you see in the streets of Charlotte here, my understanding is that the curfew means that by midnight, the mayor expects the streets of Charlotte to be cleared.

That means that we`re looking at 2 1/2, 2 1/2 plus hours that protests will be allowed to happen in the streets of Charlotte. And after that, as of midnight, they will presumably not be allowed. We don`t know exactly how this is going to be enforced tonight. But there`s National Guard, state troopers and Charlotte PD out in force alongside these many, many protesters you`re looking at here live on your screen. We`ll be back with a live report right after this.



DEMONSTRATORS: Release the video! Release the video! Release the video! Release the video! Release the video! Release the video!


MADDOW: Demonstrators on the streets of Charlotte, North Carolina, tonight, chanting as you can hear them very clearly, "release the video". They`ve also been saying, "we want the tape". They`re referring, of course, to the dash cam and body cam videos that Charlotte police say they have of the shooting of Keith Lamont Scott. They`ve now shown Mr. Scott`s family those tapes.

The family says they want those tapes released publicly. Authorities have given no indication that they will release those tapes publicly.

Protesters tonight have also been chanting "no justice, no peace" and "whose streets, our streets". This, of course, is the third night of demonstrations following Tuesday`s killing of Keith Lamont Scott by a Charlotte police officer.

The number of protesters on the streets at this time is estimated to be in the hundreds, although just since we`ve been on the air, it seems clear to me that the number of people on the streets is growing. So far, the protests definitely appear to be peaceful this evening. There have been no reports of violence this evening.

Protesters started gathering in Charlotte tonight around at 7:30 p.m. Eastern Time. First, they were at Bearden Park. From there, they started marching through Charlotte`s downtown business district. At one point they stopped at the intersection of Trade Street and Tryon Street, which is right near the Bank of America global headquarters.

But, again, as of right now, protests in Charlotte tonight are peaceful. And again we`ve had this news in the past few minutes that Charlotte`s mayor has just signed an order for a midnight curfew to be imposed in Charlotte tonight. We are trying to get word now on how exactly they intend to enforce that given that it`s just 2 1/2 hours away from now.

Joining us now is NBC News correspondent Ron Mott who is on the steps of the police department in Charlotte.

Ron, can you tell us what you`re seeing and what the environment is like that you`re in right now?


Well, they had just left the police department. So, now, they`re marching away from the police department. And you`re right. This has been a very peaceful assemblage of people. They said that they want to see the tapes, as the family of -- want the public to see the tapes.

You talk about the specifics and the law going into effect on October 1st. Suffice it to say, people want to see for themselves exactly how he lost his life on Tuesday night.

Now, I can tell you this crowd is going through the streets without a real plan, I don`t think, but they are peaceful. Police officers on bicycles and on foot are going along with them to make sure that they can protect the vehicles that are on the road from this crowd.

I did see one car a few moments ago that got surrounded by this crowd. You can only imagine what that person, that driver was feeling, not real sure what will take place. But they let the car out, which was great to see.

This is a far different scene than we saw here last night. All day long religious leaders, community leaders have been urging people who had relationships with them to be peaceful tonight. Everyone understands the emotions are very high here in Charlotte. It`s a tragedy that`s happened. But they don`t want to see the tragedy compounded by the vandalism and, unfortunately, we have a person who was killed last night. And the details of that are still somewhat in the gray area.

So, tonight, this is a scene that the city, I would say, could be proud of. A lot of young people are out here, a lot of families, fathers with their children, black people, white people. It`s a collection, a diverse group of people tonight. They want to be heard.

MADDOW: I want to mention -- first, I should say to our studio audience, we had some people flip off the camera. That happens, I`m sorry about that.

But one of the things that we saw last night on some other networks and a few other places was the media being treated very hostily. The protesters not basically feeling like the media was on their side. They were angry by the presence of cameras.

Are you seeing any of that or experiencing any of that tonight? How are people treating you?

MOTT: Oh, I think they`ve treated me fine. I mean, you just saw there a woman wanting to make sure that we were reporting accurately, I suppose.

I believe we`re standing in front of -- I`m not sure exactly what building this is. Is this the jail? This is the jail. And apparently lights are flashing on and off. Folks inside the jail, they understand what`s taking place on the outside.

We know we had some reporters who were roughed up and had some encounters with people last night. I`m not seeing any of that. (INAUDIBLE)

This is a very vocal crowd, obviously. They`re marching very peaceful, no confrontation. There was one point as this crowd made its way through the streets of uptown, a group stopped in front of a large group of police officers --

DEMONSTRATORS: We see you, we love you. We see you, we love you.


MOTT: The mayor the governor, everyone in Charlotte --

MADDOW: Ron Mott on the streets for us. Ron at times as you heard there being drowned out by sort of intense geographic encounter there, right, outside a big jail there is what Ron was saying in Charlotte. The protesters saying, we see you, we love you, right?

So, the context here, criminal justice, race and policing in Charlotte as Ron was describing there, a little bit hard to hear him. But he was saying this is a crowd at least as far as he`s seen here tonight, that the city should be proud of. A very diverse crowd.

Right now, it`s big, it`s on the move. He said it doesn`t seem like a particularly has a spot that they`re aiming for, but it`s a peaceful crowd of people.

I do think just based on our impression that it seems that the numbers are growing in the streets overnight. We`re going to try to get further guidance from local authorities tonight in terms of this supposed curfew. The mayor has -- I shouldn`t say this supposed curfew. This is a declared curfew.

The mayor has signed an order according to our local affiliate WCNC that there will be a curfew in Charlotte by midnight tonight. That`s 2 1/2 hours from now. It`s confirmed that the mayor has signed that curfew order. How it is going to be enforced, how they intend to keep things peaceful and clear the streets of all these people at the stroke of midnight, we`ll be watching that very closely tonight.

There`s a very heavy media presence, not just from MSNBC and NBC but from news outlets all over the country and all over the world tonight. And indeed, whatever happens tonight in Charlotte, the whole world is watching, including us throughout the night tonight.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: OK. So we`re going to put up this live shot of what`s going on in the streets of Charlotte tonight. That live shot? Thank you.

We`re going to keep that up on the side of the screen here. Obviously, the main situation here in Charlotte is that lots of people are out in the streets tonight for a third straight night protesting the police shooting of an African-American man named Keith Lamont Scott on Tuesday.

Again, the latest news tonight is that tonight`s protests in Charlotte are big and, as we just heard from Ron Mott, they are mobile, they are moving through the downtown area. But they`re also peaceful, at least so far.

This follows two nights of protests in which they did not always stay peaceful. There was property damage and injuries. And one person who was shot last night was on life support throughout the day and who died this afternoon.

So, heading into tonight`s protests, the mayor of Charlotte has signed an order for a curfew to be imposed on the city at midnight tonight. We do not know exactly how that`s going to work. We`re efforting more details on that from local authorities in terms of how they want to enforce that.

So, we`re keeping these images up. We`re keeping an eye on that throughout the evening. But while we keep up those images, I do also need to bring you exclusive news on another subject. I feel obliged to get this on the air because it is exclusive to us and because you can`t get it anywhere else so I feel like I need to get this out there.

It`s about the presidential race. NBC News has partnered with a voter data group called Target Smart to do data analysis on the presidential vote. And thanks to Target Smart, we exclusively have got the first real data on the first real vote that has been cast already in the presidential election.

This is the generally agreed upon swing state map this year. Of all of the states in the country, the state that started its early voting, the earliest happens to be one of these swing states. It happens to be actually the state that we`re watching for a totally different reason tonight. Swing state North Carolina.

North Carolina started early voting earlier than anyone. We`ve got nearly 4,000 presidential ballots that have already been cast in North Carolina. Of course, we don`t get to open them up and look at them, but we do know this. Again, this data is exclusive to us. She can`t get this anywhere else.

Of the ballots that have been cast in North Carolina so far, 42 percent of them are from registered Democrats, 34 percent are from registered Republicans. That`s what we know in terms of the partisan split.

Democratic ballots 8 points over Republican ballots so far in North Carolina. Now, Democrats always expect to do better in the early vote, Republicans expect to do better in terms of votes cast on election day. But even given that, that margin, that margin, that eight-point margin for the Democrats is really good.

According to "The Associated Press", in 2012, Republicans were ahead on this measure at this point in the race four years ago, not Democrats. They had a 43 to 38 percent lead on early ballots at this point in 2012, a plus five lead Republicans ahead.

And, of course, Mitt Romney went on to win North Carolina in 2012. But again, this year, our early analysis says it`s not Republicans plus five in North Carolina. It`s Democrats plus eight.

And that is a pretty picture for Democrats in North Carolina in terms of the presidential race. It`s a teeny, teeny, teeny, tiny picture. It`s a picture of only the first 4,000 votes cast in this election. But Democrats will like that news definitely.

In the new NBC national poll that just came out last night, Hillary Clinton leads Donald Trump nationally by six points. That`s when Clinton and Trump and the two minor parties are included. When it`s just head-to-head Clinton versus Trump, she`s beating him by seven points nationwide, 48-41.

That said we do not vote nationally for president, so sometimes one of the most interesting things about these national polls is what they tell you about how various demographic groups are responding to the two candidates.

Usually by this point in a presidential race, both of the major party candidates would be making their hard play for Latino voters. This year, Hillary Clinton is doing that. She`s making her hard play for Latino voters.

Donald Trump really is not. He does not seem to be focusing on Latino- Americans at all. And you can see the effect of that. Today, they released the Latino voters sample. It`s an oversample of Latino voters from the national NBC/"Wall Street Journal"/Telemundo poll.

And the results are stark. Hillary Clinton has the backing of 65 percent of Latino likely voters. Donald Trump has the backing of 17 percent. And actually, that`s an improvement. Donald Trump has picked up, from the last poll, he had 14 percent among Latinos in the last one of these polls, but he`s still failing horribly.

Just to give you some context on how that compares to previous elections, George W. Bush got 44 percent of the Latino vote in 2004. In 2008, John McCain got 31 percent and, of course, he lost. In 2012, Mitt Romney got 27 percent of the Latino vote and he lost.

Donald Trump is now ten points behind that performance. So that is just -- that`s deadly. And that pattern holds not just with demographic groups where Republicans typically do poorly, like Latinos. That pattern, it turns out, it holds out with groups with whom they do well also.

Look at this. I mean, Trump is doing great with white men. He`s plus 13 with white men. But Romney was plus 27 with white men and Romney lost.

Trump does great with non-college educated white people. He`s plus 18 with the non-college educated whites. But Romney wasn`t plus 18 with them. He was plus 26 with them and Romney lost.

Trump is plus 55 with conservatives. That`s great. But Romney was plus 65 and he lost. Trump is plus 77 with Republicans. Woo-hoo, plus 77. But you know what? Romney was plus 87 with Republicans and he lost.

So, broadly speaking, you look at the polls right now, the poll numbers nationwide and in a bunch of the swing states, they`re all looking like they`re tightening up or tilts towards Trump. But in the earliest actual voting data, not polling but voting data and in the demographic data that we`ve got nationwide, Trump looks like he is still right now very well on track to lose and to lose significantly worse than Mitt Romney did.

Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party and the Clinton supporters of our country cannot be psyched in general about how the polls are going, but when you drill down, you look at the real data that we`ve got, it`s good for her and bad for him. Now you know.

But you know, watch this space. This is a moving target.


MADDOW: We do have some additional information out of Charlotte tonight. Not exactly the information that we wanted, but it is a little further detail.

As we`ve been covering, these are the streets of downtown Charlotte tonight, third straight night of protests in the streets. People angry over the police shooting that took place in that city two days ago.

We`ve been reporting earlier this evening that the mayor has announced that there will be a midnight curfew in Charlotte tonight. We do not know how they plan to enforce that. But it presumably means that they expect all protesters to be cleared off the streets by midnight. The only additional information we`ve been able to get is this -- the city of Charlotte is now saying that this midnight curfew will be in effect each day until the state of emergency is -- until the end of the state of emergency is declared or until the official proclamation is revoked.

So, they`re saying it`s not only midnight curfew tonight but midnight curfew tonight and in ongoing days as long as Charlotte is still declared to be under a state of emergency. I`ll keep you posted.

We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: So, we have eyes on Charlotte, North Carolina, business district filled by protesters angry by a fatal police shooting two days ago. We are expecting a midnight curfew imposed on this city tonight. We`ll stay with that through this evening.

While we watch that, we also have some urgent news for you tonight concerning Flint -- Flint, Michigan. Last week, you might remember in Flint, Donald Trump came to Flint for a visit that didn`t go particularly well. It was most notable for a nice Flint pastor kindly asking Donald Trump to stop politicking in her local church.

Afterwards, the local congressman, Dan Kildee, told reporters that if Mr. Trump really wanted to help Flint instead of using it as a political backdrop, he could, quote, "pick up the phone and call Paul Ryan and tell him to do something about Flint."

That was not an idle mention. That`s a specific issue. That was last Wednesday that trip to Flint by Trump.

The following day last Thursday, the Senate passed a water bill that includes a bunch of real money for fixing Flint. It passed 95-3, a big bipartisan success in the Senate. But since then, as predicted, as alluded to by Congressman Kildee, Republicans didn`t do anything for Flint. They didn`t put money for Flint on the schedule. They didn`t include money for Flint in their version of the Senate bill. We`re told they have no plans to add it anytime soon.

Instead, House and Senate Democrats went to a plan B for Flint. They tried to get Flint money included in the stop-gap spending bill to fund the government until after the election. It is supposed to fund the government through the first week in December.

There is overwhelming bipartisan support in the Senate for helping Flint, but Democrats on Capitol Hill told us they`ve gotten basically nowhere with this plan B that they were trying to get Paul Ryan and the Republican controlled House to come up with Flint`s money.

And today, in terms of that plan, the Republicans basically called time`s up. The Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell today put forward that spending bill for the whole government. It doesn`t include any money for Flint. It includes some of the money Louisiana needs for flood recovery, but, despite that 95-3 vote by the Senate for Flint, what they put forward today includes not one dime for Flint. Flint gets nothing.

And learning that today, Michigan lawmakers went righteously berserk.


REP. DAN KILDEE (D), MICHIGAN: When it comes time to take up a paid for piece of legislation that will not increase the deficit but will help these poor folks who cannot drink their water, what do we get? Shuffling of their feet, stunned silence. Nothing. Nothing! Shame! Shame!

SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D), MICHIGAN: The 100,000 people, 9,000 children under the age of 6 who are seriously exposed to lead exposure that will affect their development physically and mentally physically and mentally, for the rest of their lives.

KILDEE: What would you do if it was your hometown?



MADDOW: Joining us now is Senator Debbie Stabenow of Michigan.

Senator Stabenow, I know it`s a very busy night and a very busy time. Thanks for taking time to be with us tonight.

STABENOW: Well, thank you, Rachel. And first of all, I want to thank you. I know it`s a busy night news-wise as well, and you continue to lift up the families of Flint. And we are very grateful.

MADDOW: Well, thank you for saying that.

What can you tell us about this situation with the funding for Flint? When there was that 95-3 vote in the Senate, I caught myself thinking that actually maybe the Congress is going to do something to get Flint some help finally. How`s things -- has the bottom really fallen out here?

STABENOW: Well, we`re standing strong. The House and Senate Democratic leadership is strongly backing us. We are not going to move forward with this short-term funding bill, unless they include Flint.

I mean, we overwhelmingly, in our caucus are saying this is very simple. Very simple. We have a package that includes funding for Flint and other communities that have lead in water issues.

We eliminated another program, which I actually authored in 2007, an energy program, to pay for it. Louisiana is not paid for, by the way. So, we paid for ours.

This is easy, easy. It costs nothing, to put this in the budget bill. And yet, they`re saying no. But yet, all of a sudden, help for Louisiana shows up.

I`m happy to help support Louisiana. We`re all Americans. We know there are all kinds of emergencies around the country. We aren`t saying don`t help Louisiana, but the people in Flint are going on two years of getting up in the morning and trying to figure out how they`re going to go get their bottled water before they go to work, after they pick the kids up fro from school.

I mean, this is crazy. Enough is enough. No more excuses. We`ve taken away every excuse, including a huge bipartisan vote in Senate. And I want to thank Senator Inhofe and Senator Boxer for working with us, because they were extraordinary in getting to this point.

And then, the Republican leadership says, well, never mind. The people of Flint can wait. And maybe never get help. But we`re going to help folks in Louisiana. It`s crazy.

MADDOW: Senator Debbie Stabenow of Michigan -- thank you for helping us let people know this is going on tonight. We are going to stay on this in coming days. It feels like this is -- it does feel like it`s now or never. Thank you for clarifying that this is a paid-for line item as well.

Ma`am, it`s good to have you here. Thank you.

STABENOW: Thank you.

MADDOW: All right. We`ll be right back. Stay with us.


MADDOW: Within the past few minutes, NBC has spoken to an attorney representing the family of Keith Lamont Scott. What`s important about that he is one of the people who has seen the police video, the dash came video and body cam video showing this shooting. It has not been released publicly, but one of the only men on earth who can publicly describe what`s on that tape just spoke with NBC, and that`s next.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: This is fascinating. The attorney for the family of Keith Lamont Scott, his name is Justin Bamberg. He is one of the only people on earth who has watched the dash cam video and the body cam video from the police officers who were involved in the shooting of Mr. Scott. That shooting, of course, that led to the protest the last two nights. And the protesters seen live here in the other side of your screen in downtown Charlotte.

That attorney who has seen the police video just spoke with Gabe Gutierrez of NBC News about what is on the video. Watch him describe it.



JUSTIN BAMBERG, ATTORNEY FOR KEITH SCOTT`S FAMILY: Well, let me start off by saying, it was painful to watch, not just to see him get shot and killed but to see the reactions on his loved ones` faces. What I see in that video is an individual who is sitting in a car, who gets out, in a calm, peaceful manner. He never appears to be aggressive.

It seems like he`s confused. I don`t know if he`s getting yelled at from too many directions. His hands are down. There does appear to be some object in his hand. But you can`t make out what it is.

At the moment he is shot, he is actually stepping backwards.

GUTIERREZ: Did he have a gun?

BAMBERG: As far as I know, I don`t know. You know, we know law enforcement is saying he did have a gun. I have not seen any definitive evidence aside from what law enforcement is saying.


MADDOW: That is Justin Bamberg, the Scott family attorney there, saying what he is describing basically, what he has seen on the police dash cam and body cam video that was shown to the family and to their attorneys.

He goes on to tell Gabe later on in that interview, I did not see a firearm at any time during those videos. The Scott family and their attorneys, they are calling for the videos to be released to the public. These people in the streets are also calling for the videos to be released to the public.

That did happen in the Tulsa shooting in which a police officer was charged with first degree manslaughter today. It has not happened in Charlotte. But the pressure is intense on North Carolina authorities to let the public see this video themselves and make up their minds.

In terms of what`s going to happen tonight in Charlotte, we shall see. The mayor has declared a midnight curfew in Charlotte pursuant to a state of emergency that was already declared in that city. They just put out a formal statement of what that curfew is. But they`re going to clear the streets between midnight and 6:00 a.m.

We`ll see how they intend to do that, because there are a lot of people still out in the streets tonight of Charlotte.

That does it for us tonight. We will see you again tomorrow.


Good evening, Lawrence.