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The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 7/11/2016

Guests: Clay Jenkins, Niki Kelly

Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW Date: July 11, 2016 Guest: Clay Jenkins, Niki Kelly

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: Thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. It`s good to be back after a few days away. Thanks to Joy Reid and Steve Kornacki and the whole team holding down the fort while I was gone.

There`s a lot going on both in the news in general and specifically at this hour, live stuff happening tonight. You`re looking at a live shot right now what is expected to be a large community vigil tonight in Dallas, Texas, the Dallas police chief and chief of Dallas transit police, representatives of each of the police officers who were killed in Dallas last week will all be speaking tonight at this vigil that you`re seeing this live shot of right now.

The Dallas police chaplain will also be leading prayers to open and close that event tonight. So, that is just getting under way in Dallas. We`ve got one eye on that this evening. This is happening in Dallas tonight, of course, on the eve of President Obama visiting Dallas tomorrow.

President Obama came home early from his European trip in order to attend an interfaith service at Dallas symphony hall tomorrow. There is word from the White House tonight that President Obama is writing his own speech for that event tomorrow in Dallas instead of having his speechwriters do it for him.

He took that same approach when he spoke in Charleston, South Carolina, in the wake of the Mother Emmanuel Church massacre there last year. He also did that at the anniversary of the march in Selma. He`s done it on a few other occasions that tends to lead to very dramatic speeches.

Visitation hours will begin tomorrow as well in Dallas for some officers who were killed last week. This is the head of the funerals for slain officers which will start on Thursday. We also got word that the funeral for Philando Castile who was killed by police last week in Minnesota, his funeral will be held Thursday in St. Paul. The following day, on Friday of this week, that will be the funeral for Alton Sterling who was killed last week by police in Baton Rouge.

Right now, tonight, in Baton Rouge, there`s a prayer service taking place tonight. As you can see, that`s a live shot in Baton Rouge right now. That has a somewhat different feel, different cast than what we have seen in the days since Alton Sterling was killed last week, including the dramatic and sometimes scary confrontations we saw between protesters and police over the weekend which resulted in more than 150 arrests over two days.

So far tonight, though, there have been no large scale protests and certainly no confrontations and no arrests that we have seen in Baton Rouge. We have seen confrontations and arrests and large scale protests in a number of other cities over the last few days, including tonight, there`s a large Black Lives Matter protest in Chicago. This is an aerial shot of what`s going on in Chicago tonight. We`ll be taking an eye on that over the course of the evening.

There are also other protests and rallies and vigils underway tonight in Cleveland, Ohio, in Brooklyn, New York, in the largest city of New Jersey, in Newark, New Jersey, in Atlanta, elsewhere around the country. So, we`re keeping up on those protests, those rallies, those vigils, all around the country tonight, because they are really coast-to-coast. We`re going to have a live report from Dallas, from that large vigil that`s under way right now as well. That`s coming up in just a moment.

In addition to all the news that continues to break on this front, though, we`ve also got big electoral politics news that`s either under way right now or that is about to happen imminently. For example, it was confirmed today that Bernie Sanders will be making his long awaited endorsement of Hillary Clinton tomorrow at an event in New Hampshire. We`re also awaiting word basically, any minute, any moment now as to the vice-presidential running mates of both candidates. The Clinton campaign has not said when they will announce Hillary Clinton`s vice-presidential running mate but they have asked people to sign up at Clinton`s website if they want to be first to know who her choice is. They`re clearly getting close to their announcement.

The Trump campaign had previously said they would announce Donald Trump`s running mate at next week`s Republican national convention and to build up the drama of that event. They have since said the announcement will not happen at the convention itself, sooner than that. So, there isn`t much time sooner than that anymore. We`re a week out from the convention. We are expecting a vice-presidential announcement on the Republican side or at least a leak of the vice presidential choice, as soon as -- conceivably as soon tonight or it could come any time in the next few days.

So, even just in our domestic politics, there`s a lot going on right now all at once. A lot of it, frankly, is anxiety making. Some of the anxiety making parts of it frankly feel familiar, which is why I want you to watch this ad. It`s not a long piece of tape. It`s just a quick TV ad, less than a minute. And this is from a previous presidential race.

And some of the concepts of this ad, some of the language in this ad had become famous and you`ll recognize where they`re from. But seeing the ad itself I think is a rare thing. I don`t think many people now have seen it, who did not see it then. And seeing it now is almost uncanny, given the times we`re living through right now.



RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT: It is time for an honest look at the problem of order in the United States. Descent is necessary ingredient for change but in a system of government that provides for peaceful change, there is no cause that justifies resort to violence. Let us recognize that the first civil right of every American is to be free from domestic violence. So, I pledge to you, we shall have order in the United States.


MADDOW: It ends there, with no audio at the end there, which is kind of a trick, right? Even if you hadn`t been watching that ad on in the background, once you hear your sound go dead on your TV, you look over and at that point you see Nixon in big white letters on your screen.

After that, that law and order script. I pledge to you we shall have order in the United States. Richard Nixon, 1968, ran for president that "we shall have order" line.

He also ran this other ad hyping the threat of crime in the United States, and pledging to rebuild respect for law across this country.


NIXON: Rebuild respect for law across this country. I pledge to you, the wave of crime is not going to be the wave of the future in America.


MADDOW: Again, the silence at the end, so you look over. Nixon!

Richard Nixon, in 1968, famously took political advantage of the chaos and strife and worry and anxiety and fear in the country in 1968. He took the unrest and the strife in the country at that time that was already freaking people out and he made it as scary as he could make it. He stoked even more fear out of it, and then he presented himself as the solution.

He wanted the country to seem as scary as possible. He wanted people to be as afraid as possible. He wanted what he called the silent majority to both feel as scared as possible and to see him as the solution to what scared them.

He wanted to be the man who stood for law and order. One of the most notorious things about Richard Nixon the way he stoked that fear and used it to his advantage, the whole law and order presidential campaign he ran in 1968.

Well, this was the presidential campaign today in Newport Beach, Virginia.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We must maintain law and order at the highest level or we will cease to have a country -- 100 percent, we will cease to have a country. I am the law and order candidate.



MADDOW: Just as political science, as, you know, politics is a spectator sport, it`s been fascinating almost to the point of being creepy to see how much this year`s Republican presidential nominee has been willing to ape the most infamous thing of Richard Nixon as a political candidate. Richard Nixon was accused in 1968, for example, of implying that he had some sort of secret plan to end the war in Vietnam. People would only find out about his secret plan once he got elected.

Well, that`s a notorious thing about Richard Nixon`s past and history because he didn`t actually have a secret plan to end the war. So, if you voted for him thinking he would have, sorry, sucker. Despite that known political history or because of that known political history of Richard Nixon, Donald Trump this year literally announced that he had a secret plan to defeat ISIS, that America would only find out about once he got elected.

Also, consider the whole idea of the silent majority. Richard Nixon came up with that term, silent majority to reassure majority Americans that someone was on their side against these scary minority Americans who Nixon would protect you from. Well, this year, in February, Donald Trump started talking about the silent majority again, not hinting at it but using the phrase explicitly. To this day, you can literally buy Donald Trump lawn signs that proclaim you and your family to be part of the silent majority standing with Trump.

We`ve been watching this happening for months now with Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump channeling the most infamous things about Richard Nixon other than Watergate.

But for Trump to do it today on this issue, calling himself the law and order candidate, it`s not just interesting political science, not just ironic creepy stuff for students of modern American history, this is a livewire that he is handling, right? Protests are under way tonight. Protests like these, protests over the weekend, with dozens and dozens and dozens of arrests. Protesters taking over highways, police using smoke canisters, and police vehicles being used against protesters frankly that look like driving tanks into crowds.

It is a special kind of unnerving. It is a racially relevant anxiety producing things in this environment, this environment that we`re in right now to have a presidential candidate saying, without him insuring law and order right now, we will cease to have a country. That is his argument.

Leaders have a choice at a time like this. You can choose to escalate situations, you can choose to make people more afraid, more scared, more divided and use to it your advantage or choose to de-escalate situations like this and try to make people see themselves as not separate from one another but part of one human American family.

Contrast what Donald Trump said today from what we heard today from the Dallas police chief. The Dallas police chief is speaking at a vigil tonight in Dallas. He also spoke to the press today in the most de- escalating way possible, basically trying to break down the whole concept of us versus them in this national argument, breaking down the division between police versus the community, public servants versus public protests. You may or may not agree with the Dallas police chief but there are other ways to show leadership rather than just going full bore, Richard Nixon.


CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: When I graduated high school, I got a full ride scholarship to UT Austin. This was 1979. I come back home for the summer, around `81/`82, that timeframe the crack cocaine epidemic hit Dallas. My friends who stayed here became involved in that and it broke my heart. It changed what I wanted to do in college.

And I actually left college my first semester my senior year to come back and apply to the Dallas Police Department to do something about what I was seeing in my neighborhood. My first beat was my old neighborhood. That was just happenstance.

I`m the kind of person that I probably wouldn`t protest or complain, I`d get involved and do something about it by becoming part of the solution. And that`s still in me, that keeps me going, that I get so much satisfaction that I can do a small thing to help this community.

I just love Dallas. And I love serving. It`s part of my character. It`s part of who I am. All the crap we`ve got to take as police officers, the satisfaction you get with serving, much more gratifying, much more gratifying. It`s like that for a lot of police officers in this country.

REPORTER: What advice would you give to young black men today to overcome their fear?

BROWN: Become a part of the solution, serve your communities, don`t be a part of the problem. We`re hiring. We`re hiring.


Get off that protest line and put an application in. We`ll put you in your neighborhood and we`ll help you resolve some of the problems you are protesting about.


MADDOW: Whether you agree with the chief there or not, that`s an option for leadership, right? Some leaders in this country are trying to de- escalate from the kind of confrontation and anxiety and fear and violence we are experiencing as a country right now.

Some other leaders are instead trying to stoke that fear and anxiety and violence and conflict for their own advantage. It`s a choice.

But these protests continue tonight across the country, this is a live shot in Atlanta, also big protests tonight in Chicago and a few other cities, and in Dallas tonight, tonight`s vigil is ongoing right now ahead of what is going to be a long difficult week frankly of a lot of funerals.

Joining us is Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins. Judge Jenkins is the head of the county government in Dallas.

Judge Jenkins, thank you so much for your time. I know your time is precious right now. Thank you, sir.

JUDGE CLAY JENKINS, DALLAS COUNTY, TX: Rachel, thank you for having me.

MADDOW: Can you just give me your human assessment as a Dallas resident and civil service assessment how your community is doing right now, how these few days on, how things are going in terms of trying to hold it together?

JENKINS: You know, you can really feel the palpable support of the community for each other and our police officers and you can see it behind me, they`ve been coming here in a steady stream since the events unfolded Thursday night and Friday morning. There are thousands of people down at the vigil. And we appreciate that. These officers need that. It`s helpful and it`s appreciated.

MADDOW: What do you think is going to be different, Judge Jenkins, in Dallas moving forward. I`ve heard so many people express what you just did there about the support that police officers feel, not just sympathy but support, in response to what happened.

What do you think will be different in a material way going forward? How is Dallas going to be changed by this?

JENKINS: Well, what needs to happen is I believe we have a rare opportunity here, because of the support, to come together. You talked about leadership and leaders can incite people to fear and anger or they can call on people to respect one another and show compassion for one another and see things through each other`s perspective. Ultimately, it`s the community that decides how they`ll respond.

I believe this community is uniquely situated and has demonstrated in the past a unique ability to come together. It`s a diverse community here in Dallas County. It`s a community that respects one another. We have racial divisions in Dallas County, just like we do throughout the rest of the country.

Here in the city of Dallas, just like they are in every major city. But this police force under David Brown`s leadership has led the way on community policing. I was at the White House last year with one of the chiefs about a year ago working on community policing issues.

And so, I think this is an opportunity for us to come together, respect one another, see things from each other`s perspective. That needs to be the legacy of this act of hate, not pulling us further apart.

MADDOW: Judge Jenkins, I have heard some frustration voiced by the chief and by others the pressure of the national media having descended for all these days now on Dallas is frustrating and in some ways feels counter- productive. I`m sure that national spotlight starts to burn pretty hot after all these days especially with what the city needs to deal with internally. Given that and understanding that, is there anything Dallas needs that you don`t have?

JENKINS: We need patience, as we go through this crime scene and this evidence. And we need this to mean something to this community and to this country. It`s a senseless act of hate. But if it can mean that it`s the opportunity to open that dialogue so that white people think about what a black family goes through as they teach their children a different set of rules than a white family will teach their children, so that non-first responder families think about what a first responder family goes through, wondering if their loved one is going to come home.

All the issues that are going on with our first responders right now as they deal with grief and they still go about doing their jobs on very little sleep. If we can begin to see things from each other`s perspective, then that that gives it meaning and that leads to a stronger Dallas.

We have shown compassion in the past in other instances and we`re ready to do that now. And the national spotlight can help us by not letting the politicians and the talking heads pull us back into our partisan corners, let`s use this as a time to have a real conversation and pass some real legislation that helps our officers that helps our communities, that keeps us safer.

MADDOW: Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins, top county executive in the county there of Dallas. Thank you, sir, for being with us. I appreciate it and good luck to you.

JENKINS: Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thanks.

All right. Tonight, we are continuing to get live images from Dallas, from that community vigil. We`re keeping an eye on that and keeping an eye on protests in other cities tonight, including good-sized protests in Atlanta and Chicago and a few other places. Lots of news to get to tonight. Stay with us.


MADDOW: December 2011, right before Christmas, the last U.S. convoy of troops left Iraq after nine years of grueling war, after more than more than 4,000 American soldiers were killed in that war, President Obama kept his campaign promise and withdrew U.S. troops from Iraq, right at the end of 2011. And then less than three years later, June 2014, he redeployed U.S. troops back to Iraq, this time to fight ISIS.

Since that summer day, 2014, when President Obama announced he would send up to 300 U.S. soldiers back into Iraq as military advisors, he has slowly been adding more and more and more. Another 200 soldiers here, another 130 there, 350 more, another 475. Over the past two years it has been a slow escalation, a steady basically undeclared expansion of the war the U.S. military is now fighting in Iraq again, this time against ISIS.

Well, today, we got the most recent and one of the largest expansions yet. Secretary of Defense Ash Carter took a surprise trip to Iraq and he announced there another 560 American troops will be deployed into Iraq, this time specifically to help retake the large Iraqi city of Mosul from ISIS control.

This latest addition means that we`re now back up officially to about 4600 American troops in Iraq, unofficially the number is larger than that. Unofficially, the number has already cleared 5,000 Americans back in Iraq and that number is rising and rising and rising.

And the last time we had a new president taking over as commander in chief, with thousands of Americans deployed both in Iraq and Afghanistan and no idea how to end either one of those wars, the last time we did that, we had a pretty robust debate about it in our presidential election that year. It was pretty big part how we chose between presidential options that year.

This time, it`s the same prospect. The next president will take over with thousands of American troops in Iraq and thousands of American troops in Afghanistan and no idea how those wars end. The only difference is this time we`re not having a political debate about it at all. This time, we`re still waiting for that debate to start. But the troops will definitely be there by the thousands. Watch this space.


MADDOW: Presidential conventions still have their moments here and there. Sometimes, you know, a guy starts talking to a chair or something.

But, honestly, mostly what conventions are now is big infomercial, big four day long advertisements for each political party, all very well-produced, all very slick, you have big name speakers, you have well-produced videos, you have very well-orchestrated balloon onslaughts. But, overall, the convention itself, what you see on TV is sort of more ceremonial, more pro formative than anything.

That said, presidential nomination conventions do have work to do and a week before the convention opens and all the TV cameras turn up, that is technically when that work happens. Every four years, that is when the actual work gets done, the week before the convention. That work started getting done today in Cleveland.

We`re a week out from the Republican convention. They started working in Cleveland today. Today and tomorrow it`s the platform committee. Depending whether or not you believe Donald Trump is changing the Republican Party and depending how much you`ve been paying attention to Republican politics recently, it may or may not come as a surprise to you to learn that one of the ideas they advanced today as part of their platform committee discussion is a declaration against porn. Pornography declared by the Republican Party and its platform today to be a menace to public health. I feel safer already.

They also advanced platform planks denouncing gay marriage. Also supporting therapy to cure children of the dreaded disease of being LBGT. And we don`t know exactly how items like this will shake out in the end but that platform discussion is under way.

Then, at the end of this week, on Thursday and Friday and possibly Saturday if they need to keep going, that`s when the committee with the most boring name but most exciting possibilities starts to meet, Thursday and Friday, maybe Saturday, that`s the rules committee. Sounds boring but it`s awesome.

There`s obviously a lot of speculation right now over who Donald Trump will pick to be his running mate, the company has said that announcement will come sometime in the next few days, could be tonight.

But one of the things happening in the boring sounding rules committee is a discussion about whether or not the convention might require whoever the presidential pick is, they might require that person to earn support from 1,237 delegates, just like Donald Trump is going to need to be nominated president. That changes within the realm of possibility.

Nobody knows what that would do to his vice-presidential pick. It could be that the convention would choose somebody to be Trump`s running mate who was not Trump`s own choice to be his running mate. That`s a very exciting prospect.

There`s also an ongoing discussion about unbinding the delegates, basically letting them vote for whoever they want to. Ever since Donald Trump started doing well in the primary this year, more ink has been spilled over that prospect than it deserved in terms of it being a likely possibility. But that said, if it`s ever going to happen, it`s going to happen now.

And one Virginia delegate literally sued recently to free himself from Republican Party rules in the state of Virginia that said he had to cast his delegate vote for Donald Trump. And today in Virginia, that delegate won his lawsuit. There was a court ruling today in favor of that delegate who doesn`t want to vote for Trump. That ruling at this point only applies to Virginia, but, hmm, hmm.

If all the frenetic sort of pointless excitement over the last few months about the possibility of denying Donald Trump the nomination at the convention, if that`s ever going to be anything other than a fantasy or a tempest in a teapot, we`re going to know really soon because that`s going to happen right now, this week.

I mean, ultimately, no matter what happens with the rules committee or this scheming against Donald Trump or potentially scheming against his vice- presidential nominee or what happens with what looks like a pretty crazy platform with the Republican Party, even despite all of that we know it`s going to be an unusual convention next week. There are, for example, 54 Republican senators in the United States Senate, somewhere between 16 and 22 of those 54 senators aren`t going to show up to the Republican convention this year. Also, the last Republican presidential nominee is not going to show up at Donald Trump`s convention this year. Also, the last Republican nominee before that is not going to show up at Donald Trump`s convention this year.

None of the living former Republican presidents on earth is going to go to Donald Trump`s Republican convention this year. Neither the first President Bush nor the second President Bush is going to Cleveland and neither has said he will support Donald Trump. And not one nuclear family, the Bush family in such a strange place in history with dad and son being president and being the only two living ex-Republican presidents now on earth, right?

But with Donald Trump having won the nomination, the Bush family is an truly strange political place right now. I mean, after his brother and his father both became president, Jeb Bush really thought it was his turn this year. He entered the presidential race June of last year. He ended up quitting very early on. He quit on February 20th this year after disappointing results in Iowa and then, New Hampshire, and then, South Carolina.

Here`s the thing, though, despite that totally peculiar and fascinating place, the Bush family and Jeb Bush in particularly, that they have right now in our politics and history of the Republican Party, since Trump became the presumptive nominee, Jeb Bush has not once spoken publicly to anyone. He has not given a single interview since then about running, about quitting the race, about Donald Trump being the nominee, about who he`s going to vote for. He hasn`t spoken publicly about it once since Trump locked up the nomination.

But, today, for the first time, he has broken his silence. He spoke his mind at length in fascinating detail with our own Nicolle Wallace and we are going to have that one-on-one for you right here, exclusively the top of this hour right after this show. I will be here anchoring that coverage, along with Nicolle Wallace, along with Brian Williams.

I have seen clips of this discussion already. I`ve read the transcript. It is fairly devastating. But that exclusive one-on-one is right here tonight, right after this show.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: No offense to Indiana, but it`s a rare day when national politics in this country revolves around Indiana. It just doesn`t happen that often. But today turns out as one of those days. It`s in part because of this man.

Do you know who this man is? Could you pick this man out of a lineup? Do you know this man`s name?

No, you`re thinking of Arlen Specter, that`s the guy on the right. No, it`s not Hank Paulson, the former treasury secretary either, close. Nor is it the mom`s second husband from "Six Feet Under." No, no, no, the man you can`t quite place is named Dan Coats.

He used to be a lobbyist and then he stopped being a lobbyist so he could become a United States senator.

Now, this man, on the other hand, he stopped being a U.S. senator so he could become a lobbyist. He and Dan Coats are mirror images of each other, they just traded positions, lobbyist to senator, senator to lobbyist.

Well, now, the first guy, Dan Coats is retiring from the Senate, and the lobbyist, Evan Bayh has decided he wants his old Senate seat back. And the reason that`s important is because Evan Bayh could win his seat back.

The Bayh family name is household name in Indiana. Evan Bayh`s dad, Birch Bayh, he held that Senate seat for decades. He`s very popular in that state. He ran for president in 1976.

His son, Evan Bayh, then held the Senate seat thereafter. Evan Bayh also served for a time as Indiana governor. Evan Bayh is kind of a Joe Lieberman-style conservative Democrat. He`s not everybody`s cup of tea.

But he probably can win in Indiana, not just because he`s already sitting on almost $10 million in unspent campaign contributions from campaigns, while the Republican running for that seat barely has $1 million on his bank account. I mean, in part because of all that cash.

But it`s also because of his dad`s continuing popularity. It`s because Bayh is a household name, because he`s a former governor and because he himself held that exact Senate seat before. I mean, Evan Bayh is kind of running with advantages of incumbency without being an incumbent. He could win that seat and flip it from red to blue. And that could be a help to flip the whole United States Senate from red to blue.

Even if Evan Bayh can`t win that seat back outright, though, he will be a strong enough contender for that seat that he will almost assuredly mean the Republican Party will have to spend millions of dollars hand over fist in the state of Indiana to try to hold onto their chances for that Senate seat. And that alone will make Indiana interesting and important this year in terms of that one Senate seat, in terms of control of the United States Senate, and all that, you know, expending we weren`t expecting in Indiana, that will be coming in a year Indiana could be a swing state in the presidential election.

Remember, President Obama won Indiana in 2008 and lost it in 2012. Could it be back in play this year? Will all that Senate spending affect that?

And that all comes on the same day when the current governor of Indiana apparently rose to the top of everybody`s short list in terms of who Donald Trump might pick to be his vice-presidential running mate.

Indiana is usually safely ignored in national politics. Indiana right now is a state where know one knows who one of their senators is. Actually, you know what, Indiana is a state where nobody knows who either of their senators are. Tell me. Come on, either of them?

But today, unassuming Indiana is the center of the political universe when it comes to the next election.

More ahead on that in just a moment. Here`s your hint. The guy on the right is named Joe. Does that mean anything? Joe.


MADDOW: There are not very many shoes left to drop in this presidential election, not many things we are still waiting for other than the big result at the end. The very few shoes that have not yet dropped are all going to hit the floor in the next two weeks or less. One of them has been, when is Bernie Sanders going to endorse Hillary Clinton?

We now know Bernie Sanders is set to endorse Hillary Clinton at an event tomorrow in New Hampshire. So, that`s one thing we`ve been wondering about a long time. Now, we know as of tomorrow, done and dusted.

The other big shoe to drop is, of course, the issue of running mates. The party conventions start in a week, tick-tock. Donald Trump had initially told everybody he was going to announce his running mate at his Republican national convention this year. That apparently is not going to happen. It`s going to be sooner.

He told, "The Washington Post" today, quote, I will make up my mind over the next three to four days. In my mind, I have someone that would be really good", in his mind.

At the moment, the conventional wisdom seems to be Donald Trump`s first choice is Indiana Republican governor, Mike Pence. Governor Pence will be introducing Donald Trump at a rally in Indiana tomorrow. He`ll be doing a fund-raiser for him as well.

Mike Pence, in terms of his political career, he`s in an interesting place, because he`s nearing the end of his first term as governor. Today, he was out at the Bartholomew County Fair in Indiana, doing what governors do. He was admiring cows and pigs, complimenting people on their cows and pigs, telling reporters he`s not focused at all about becoming vice president because he`s focused on getting re-elected as governor.

The thing is, getting re-elected as governor of Indiana is not at all a sure thing for Mike Pence. We`ll have more on that in a moment, in terms of why that might be.

But in terms of the raw logistics here, the clock is really ticking, and not because of Donald Trump`s convention is next week. Indiana law says you can`t run for governor and vice president at the same time, you can only run for one.

Governor Mike Pence has to declare Friday if he wants to run for re- election or if he wants to get off the ballot so he can run for vice president. There`s no wiggle room there. He has to do it before the end of this week.

Does Donald Trump think the Indiana governor could help his presidential campaign? Does Mike Pence think he`s got a better chance of staying employed if he throws his lot in with Donald Trump? Is there any sign of a likely outcome here from what has happened thus far in Indiana?

Joining us is Niki Kelly. She`s a statehouse political reporter for "The Ft. Wayne Journal Gazette".

Ms. Kelly, it`s really nice to have you here with us tonight. Thanks for being here.


MADDOW: So, what are Mike Pence`s prospects for re-election?

KELLY: Well, he`s facing a tough race against John Gregg, a man who he beat but by a small margin four years ago. And since then, he`s had a couple blunders that are certainly coming, you know, after him in the religious freedom debate, and a very controversial abortion bill that a federal judge just blocked.

So, there are some Republicans here who would actually like to see a different Republican on the ballot besides Governor Pence.

MADDOW: Some Republicans in Indiana are hoping he runs as vice president specifically so he won`t be on the ballot as governor?

KELLY: I think it`s probably dual. I think they think it would bring a lot of great attention to Indiana and the story that they think is helping us here. But also, I do think it would -- some of them think it might be easier to win the office without Pence.

MADDOW: Mike Pence`s reputation is something that I have always felt seems a little bit independent of his actual actions and behavior, actions and behavior as a politician. He has this very carefully cultivated reputation as the -- a very doctrinaire, very earnest conservative who`s sort of uncompromising, very dedicated in particular to social conservative issues.

It would seem to me whether or not he has governed that way and lived that way, it would seem to me hard to square that kind of a reputation with getting in bed with Donald Trump. What do we know about his relationship with and how copasetic his politics are with Donald Trump?

KELLY: Well, he has disagreed with Donald Trump on a few issues so far this cycle. They`ve only met twice, once during the primary right after which Governor Pence endorsed Ted Cruz, though he praised Trump effusively. And they recently met a couple of weekends ago on he vice presidential issue, and obviously, tomorrow, it seems like Governor Pence might be getting a tryout of sorts at the rally.

MADDOW: Right down to this Friday deadline bearing down on both of them.

Niki Kelly, statehouse political reporter for "The Ft. Wayne, Indiana Journal Gazette" -- Niki, thanks for being here. Appreciate it.

KELLY: Thank you.

MADDOW: All right. Lots more ahead tonight. We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: Programming note: my colleague and my friend, the great Nicolle Wallace, sat down today for an exclusive one-on-one with Jeb Bush. This is a remarkable thing. This is the first time that Jeb Bush has talked publicly since Donald Trump secured the Republican nomination for president.

We`re going to have that tonight, in just a few minutes, 10:00 Eastern, right after the show. Nicolle will be joining us here, along with Brian Williams. We`ll be special coverage starting tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. That`s an exclusive, coming up in a few minutes.

Stay with us.



CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Cops are mission-focused. Give us a job to do, we`ll focus on accomplishing the mission. So, what`s our mission today, is helping these families understand how to conquer this tragedy.


MADDOW: Dallas, Texas, tonight, as we speak the vigil being held to honor the five police officers who lost their lives simultaneously with that vigil tonight in Dallas, protests continued this evening in a bunch of different cities across the country.

In Atlanta, we`re getting reports of about a dozen arrests so far tonight. Several hundred people demonstrated in Atlanta tonight for a fifth straight night. Earlier tonight in Chicago, about 500 peaceful protesters held a silent sit-in. That was very dramatic. Then, folks in Chicago filed in federal plaza.

There were about two dozen arrests in Chicago over the weekend. But the protests tonight have gone off without any sort of confrontation or incident. We also saw protest tonight in Tampa, Florida, several hundred people marched through downtown in Tampa. Also protests tonight in Newark, New Jersey. There was a peace march through that city tonight.

We`ve got much more ahead tonight. Stay with us.


MADDOW: Last September, September 25th (VIDEO GAP) Congress voted dozens of times on fake repeal Obamacare bills, they shut down the government. They got our nation`s credit rating downgraded by blowing the debt ceiling. Things were not going well.

And on top of all of that, the majority party boss, the guy in charge was facing an insurrection on his own side. And so, on that Friday afternoon, last September, September 25, 2015, the top Republican in Washington, House Speaker John Boehner, he walked into his weekly press conference and he stunned everybody by quitting.

Here is how he started that press conference that day when he quit.


JOHN BOEHNER (R), THEN-HOUSE SPEAKER: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah! Zip-a-dee-ay! My oh my, what a wonderful day. I use to sing that on my way to work in the morning.


MADDOW: That was how he started the press conference. In the end, he sang, not once, but twice while he was in the process of giving --


REPORTER: You seem very relieved.


MADDOW: John Boehner, as reigned for almost a full year as undisputed king who literally sing as they quit their jobs. He`s been at the top of that heap, but now from across the waters, a challenge from our closest overseas ally. In contrast to our American long, drawn out presidential contest which has been going on for approximately 48 hours, or at least it feels like it. Today in Great Britain, Prime Minister David Cameron announced his country is going to have a new prime minister in two days.

Oh, it was initially suppose to be October when he was going to be stepped down, and it was going to be September. Now, as of today, it`s two days from now, as of Wednesday, new prime minister. Ta-da!

And then listen closely to how he ended that announcement.



Do-do-do-do. Right.


MADDOW: Do-do-do-do, right.

He sings himself off the political stage. Just one more time.


CAMERON: Do-do-do-do, right.


MADDOW: Right.

That is so perfect, that our friends at have immortalized it and turned it into a ring tone so you can answer your phone that way if you want. David Cameron leaves his old frustrating job now with one Brexit and one internationally appreciated ring tone. Thank you for your service, sir.

As a comforting sign of continuity in these internationally troubled times, I would like to tell you, though, that the famous cat at 10 Downing Street, down there at the bottom of your screen there, Larry, Larry of 10 Downing Street, he`s not leaving with David Cameron.

God bless you, Larry the Cat. He came out again today and warmed up the crowd and, I guess, addressed the press corps, before the prime minister came out and quit and then sang his way back into the room. Larry the Cat is apparently staying. He does not belong to David Cameron, Larry the Cat, chief mouser, belongs to 10 Downing Street. So, he stays.

Prime ministers come and go, governments come and go, but Larry the Cat is forever. What a wonderful day.

That does it for this hour. But don`t go anywhere, I`m going to see you in just a moment, because we are just about to present our exclusive with Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush`s first public comments since Donald Trump became the presumptive presidential nominee of the Republican Party. That`s here right now exclusively here on MSNBC. Don`t go anywhere.