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The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 02/11/15

Guests: Chris Murphy, Mark Kleinschmidt

CHRIS HAYES, "ALL IN" HOST: All right. That is "ALL IN" for this evening from Houston, Texas. THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts now. Good evening, Rachel. RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thanks, my friend. And thanks to you at home for staying with us for the next hour. This is Henry Kravis. Henry Kravis is a very, very, very wealthy man. Right now, there are only 99 people in the United States who are known to be richer than him. He`s worth like 5 billion with B dollars, nothing wrong with that. Just saying that`s why you might have heard of him if you have. Henry Kravis tonight is hosting a dinner at his home. I`m sure his home is lovely. But in order to get into the dinner into his home, in order to buy a ticket, you just need one simple thing. You need $1 times 100,000. And you have to want to give your $100,000 to Jeb Bush. To the Jeb Bush for President super PAC -- $100,000 per person for a fund-raiser. That ticket price is shocking, even by Wall Street standards. But it turns out that the shock is part of the tactic here. This in part is Jeb Bush showing off to the other would-be candidates for president in 2016, that he can get people to shell out $100,000 per person for a chicken dinner for him at this stage of the race. They call it shock and awe fund-raising. And it is aimed, yes, at raising a lot of money. But it`s also aimed at the other candidates in the race to make them believe it is futile to try to compete. I mean, Jeb Bush is doing it now in his run for the presidency. But the all-time undisputed king of this tactic, the guy who basically invented it in modern politics is Jeb Bush`s older brother, George. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS: Of course, cash is king in a race for a presidency. When it comes to filling the war chest, George W. Bush rules. We continue in-depth. Here`s NBC`s Lisa Myers. LISA MYERS, NBC NEWS: To win the presidency, the Bush campaign needs to suck up cash like a Texas twister. And so far, it`s on track. Other candidates complain Bush has turned the Republican Party into his personal ATM, leaving everyone else starved for cash. By the end of this month, Bush`s war chest may top $20 million, more than the rest of the field combined. Opponents complain Bush`s strategy is to overwhelm everyone else and drive them out of the race. UNIDENTIFEID FEMALE: His critics may say George W. Bush lacks depth when it comes to his policy positions, but now, there`s fresh evidence of the incredible depth of his financial support. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By all accounts the numbers are staggering and unprecedented. The question now is, can other candidates survive? (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: The other candidates did not survive. George W. Bush locked up basically all the money in the race on the Republican side in 1999 and 2000, locked up all that money, really early. And with that, intimidating, some say even prohibitive fund-raising advantage, he forced out of the race the people who were best placed to compete with him for the nomination for president in 2000. That`s how he won the nomination. And then he won the presidency. And now, W.`s younger brother, Jeb, is showing he`s mindful of his brother`s legacy, as he mounts his own run, apparently in much the same way -- $100,000 a ticket to go to this dinner tonight. But you know, if you are the third Bush trying to win the presidency in less than 30 years, you can`t just be mindful of the time your brother ran. You also have to be mindful of how your father did it as well. George H.W. Bush, Poppy Bush, running for the first time in 1988, I have to admit less than exciting. He had been Ronald Reagan`s vice president, he basically ran as Ronald Reagan`s vice president, sort of a four more years kind of thing. The more searing experience for Poppy Bush was when he ran for a second term. When he ran for reelection in 1992, he did not win. Bill Clinton beat him. And for all the indelible moments over the years of things going wrong for candidates while they were running for president, you know, Gary Bauer falling backwards off a stage while flipping pancakes at a Bisquick photo-op, our Howard Dean screaming into the microphone, don`t do it! And whoever told Michael Dukakis that it would be a good idea to put that tiny person in that giant tank. I mean, for all of the indelible presidential campaigns, bad moments over the years, John Kerry reborn -- the most indelible presidential campaign moment, that happens not just to candidates, but to a serving president who was running for reelection, one of these indelible moments that happened to a serving president was what happened to George H.W. Bush, when he was running for reelection in 1992. He had this remarkable staged for the press moment in Florida, involving a carton of milk, an apple, and his own wide-eyed amazement. "The New York Times" headline after this after this happened was, "Bush encounters the supermarket amazed." Quote, "He grabbed a quart of milk, a light bulb and candy and ran them over the scanner. The look of wonder flickered across his face, as he saw the item and price registered on the cash register screen." Quote, "This is for checking out?" he said. "Amazed by some of the technology." In the years since that happened, that story has sort of taken on a life of its own. Some people had tried to do debunk it. Of course, Poppy Bush had been in a supermarket before. Of course, he was aware that supermarkets had been using electronic scanners. He just said he was amazed by it, because it`s still amazing all those years later, right? They come up with a way to try to debunk it. But even with all the pushback, that story stuck. It did not help Poppy Bush in his reelection effort, that he looked like an out-of-touch super-rich guys who didn`t know the fundamentals of peasant life, like how you pay for stuff in a store. And you would think that that story looms large in the Bush family psyche of things that can go wrong when you are running for president. And it might. But now, we are faced with the apparent inevitable candidacy of one of Poppy Bush`s son, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush. And the challenge that he`s got that nobody else has, is that he has to define himself as a third kind of Bush. Right? We had Poppy Bush, and we had George Bush, now, we`ve got Jeb and he has to differentiate himself from those two previous presidents from his own nuclear family. And what he appears to have settled on, what we have learned this week, is that he wants to be the Tech Bush. E-Bush, if you will. Now, here`s the first problem. It is hard to seem like a tech-savvy candidate for president if you never thought to buy the Web site address But that web address actually belongs to two adorable burly bears who were a couple in Oregon. They bought it several years ago for $8. And they`re now busy turning, into a gay rights Web site, because they can, because they own it, because Jeb Bush, the Tech Bush, the E-Bush, he never thought he might need that address, and so they got it. This week, though, the Jeb Bush for president campaign, rolling him out as the tech guy, they did start a big public buildup to some new Jeb Bush for president Web site they were launching. We knew it would not be at the obvious URL, because, again, the beardy gay guys in Oregon own that, but the Jeb folks did a big conference call with reporters, publicizing that they were going to launch a new site. They said it was going to go online at midnight on Tuesday, right? Midnight launch, that`s kind of a dramatic choice. They said it was going to be a Web site with unprecedented transparency about this campaign, unprecedented online release of Jeb Bush related information. Stay tuned for midnight. And when it went live at midnight, we found out what it was. The Web site is You type that into your browser. This pops up as the splash page. Sort of a strained happy face from Governor Bush. And the Web site is all about how much he loves the e-mail. E-mail kept me connected to Floridians and focused on the mission of being their governor. He talks about just how many e-mails he got when he was governor, millions of emails. He wants you to know that his nickname when he was governor was that they called him the e-governor. But the launch of e-governor, e-Jeb, e-Bush, this is big tech coming out. It has now run into another significant problem. Have you ever heard of the phenomenon of doxxing? Sometimes it`s d-o-x-i-n-g, more frequently it`s d-o-x-x-i-n-g. Basically means somebody`s decided to hurt you, to maliciously go after you on purpose by posting online your real personal information, your private personal information. So that could mean something as simple as your full name and your personal e-mail address, maybe also your date of birth, your physical address. In extreme doxxing attacks, it could also mean your bank account numbers, your credit card numbers, your medical information, your Social Security number. All your private stuff posted online for anybody to see. That`s doxxing. This is the headline at Gizmodo about Jeb Bush`s new I was the e- governor Web site. Quote, "Jeb Bush basically just doxxed thousands of Floridians." What Jeb Bush just published as part of his big campaign rollout this week, what he just published at were not just e-mails that he wrote to people in Florida, when he was the governor of Florida, it wasn`t like a publication of his own correspondence, what he published are the e-mails that people sent to him, hundreds of thousands of them. He published them indiscriminately, including people`s specific identifying information, personal information, real names, real addresses - - the personal medical information of this child listed by name, including his diagnosis, and what medications he was using for his treatment. Full names, full addresses, real working phone numbers for people who wrote to Jeb Bush with all sorts of long, involved emotional personal stories, because he was their governor and they wanted help. Medical diagnoses, problems with the law, work related issues. Honestly, going through this stuff, I was surprised how much medical stuff there was specifically. But it`s all there, published by Jeb Bush online, including people`s real names with nothing blacked out. And at least in a couple instances, this Jeb Bush document dump yet includes people`s full legal names, along with their full Social Security numbers. We blurred them out here, but they were not blurred out in what Jeb Bush posted online yesterday. I mean, even if you set aside the Social Security numbers and phone numbers and addresses and full names and medical information and personal stories that he published online yesterday, there`s also just the matter of the thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of personal e-mail addresses that he posted online yesterday from these poor people who had the bad luck to write to him, even people who thought ahead about that, and wrote things like this, in their e-mails to Jeb Bush. Look, this person wrote this big long personal e-mail and added on to the end of it, look -- please do not make this e-mail public to anybody. I do not want my privacy violated especially by the media. And then Jeb Bush posted that, that whole e-mail at Doxxing. After doing that, Jeb Bush then had to face reporters about this, about whether he even understood what he had just done to all these people. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REPORTER: You released a bunch of emails, with a lot of Social Security numbers released, a lot of personal information, some folks are upset. JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Well, that was a matter of public record in the department of state, so we just released what the government gave us. REPORTER: If you could do it differently, would you? BUSH: Yes, if we have private information that`s out there, we would take -- we`re going to take it off, for sure. (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: You did that hundreds of thousands of times. Jeb Bush and the Jeb Bush for president folks initially did try to defend the release of those e-mails saying all of that personal information wasn`t technically a secret. Anyone could have requested it with the formal open records request to the Florida state government. And that is the way the law works in Florida. But, you know, it`s one thing to obtain somebody`s personal e-mail address, you know, personal information because you were trying to get it from the state of Florida by way of an open records request for old personal e-mails that people sent to the former governor of the state, if you thought to do that. It`s another thing for that governor to create a flashy new Web site that invites you to read all of these personal unredacted e-mails, so you can appreciate his tech-savvy brilliance as the e-governor who perhaps somebody could be our e-president. After initially defending what they had done, the Jeb Bush folks later in the day they said they had started doing after-the-fact redactions of the stuff that they never bothered to check before they posted these documents. Presumably, they will start with the Social Security numbers and make a case by case determination about whether or not your story about your sick child deserves you having your name blacked out, and your address and your child`s name, and the list of medications your child takes. I mean, it`s already up there now, but maybe they`ll take it down later, they`ll get to it eventually. All this tech stuff is hard. So, that has been the rollout of Jeb Bush as the electronic Bush, as the tech- savvy guy among the Republican candidates. I will say, though, that was only day two of the rollout of e-Bush, the tech Republican. You might remember that day one started with Jeb Bush announcing the hiring of a new young hip chief technology officer, to run the technology for his presidential campaign PAC. The guy they hired was a co-founder of was supposed to be kind of like Instagram, but different once upon a time. In 2012, got famous because they had to apologize publicly. Once people started to notice that if you signed up for their app, they would upload your entire address book off your phone without your permission and take all of your contacts. They were doing that without telling people they were doing that. So, they had to apologize. A month after apologizing, AOL bought And then a year later, AOL shut the thing down, so now, just goes to AOL. The founder is who Jeb Bush tapped to be his chief technology officer. But when the Jeb Bush folks announced they hired him this week on Monday to start this rollout of Jeb Bush the tech candidate, that hiring announcement started this long awkward afternoon of the new guy they just hired of having to delete parts of his Twitter history -- because it included tweets like this: "Most people don`t know that Halloween is German for night that girls with low self-esteem dress like sluts." Or this one, quote, "New study confirms old belief, college female art majors are sluts. Science majoring are also sluts, but uglier." So, he seemed nice. The Jeb Bush campaign folks, I don`t know where they found him, but they initially put out a statement saying that while they believe those comments were inappropriate, basically no big deal. They said they were inappropriate. They didn`t approve of those comments. They wanted them taken down, but, quote, "Ethan is a great talent in the tech world and we`re very excited to have him onboard." But while Jeb Bush was still very excited about his new hire, even after reading his online musings about which sluts are uglier, turns out the ugly slut stuff was just a taste. That was just amuse-bouche of that was just the chief technology`s record of strongly worded opinions which he expressed online for, oh, say, seven years or so before he was hand-picked to run technology for Jeb Bush without anybody apparently ever noticing this about him before they hit "send" on the, look who we just hired e- mail. It turns outs the ugly slut time of his life didn`t get into the stuff that he previously had written about the blacks, and MLK, and how Africans learned differently than whites. Yes. Jeb Bush`s new chief technology officer tried to apologize via Twitter for the slut stuff and the other twice, #learning, #maturing. That did not save him in the end. Late last night, that guy resigned. Jeb Bush`s PAC put out a statement saying that those regrettable and insensitive comments do not reflect the views of Governor Bush. So, just to recap. On day one of Jeb Bush`s roll-out as the e- governor, he picked the chief technology officer who wrote online about ugly sluts and how terrible black people are. On day two, he accidently doxxed a significant portion of the population of Florida, and he had to fire -- I mean, accept the resignation of the technology officer who he had hired on day one. But this is how he`s going to run, apparently, not just as a former governor, but as the former e-governor. He`s also not going to write a book to run for president. He`s going to write an e-book. You want to know what his e-book is about? It`s based on his e-mails. And part of the rollout of his e-tech savvy-ness, he also made clear yesterday he not only knows what Twitter is, he knows how Twitter sounds. You would be surprised, turns out Twitter sounds remarkably like a turkey. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: That will like up the Twitter -- the Twitter universe, there`s some heads exploding right now. I can feel it. Like -- (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: Twitter turns out gobbles like a turkey. The beep, beep, boop, boop thing in the supermarket counts your milks. And running for president is harder than it looks, even when everyone else in your nuclear family has already done it. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) MADDOW: There`s late breaking news tonight from the White House. The story has just been developing now. It concerns the hostage Kayla Mueller who was killed while being held in Syria by ISIS. The White House just released some new information about her time as a hostage. NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell is going to join us live in just a moment for a live report on this breaking news story. We`re getting Andrea right now. We`re going to have her report right after this. Please stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) MADDOW: We have breaking news from the White House. This is just happening within the last hour. It concerns the family of Kayla Mueller, the young American hostage whose death in Syria was confirmed this week. Tonight, Andrea Mitchell of NBC News has new reporting about the efforts that Kayla Mueller`s family made as they tried to win her freedom from ISIS. But also about her family`s continuing effort tonight to try to set the record straight, now with new help from the White House about what their daughter actually experienced personally, during her time as an ISIS hostage. There`s been a flurry of anonymously sourced news reports about this tonight, about what might have happened to Kayla Mueller while she was in custody -- the family and White House basically pushing back on that tonight. Joining us with the latest is Andrea Mitchell, chief foreign affairs correspondent for NBC News. Andrea, thanks very much for being here on short notice. ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEW CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: You bet. MADDOW: So, can -- (CROSSTALK) MADDOW: Please, just go right ahead. MITCHELL: The issue is that the family is distressed. And because of that distress, they persuaded the White House to put out a statement tonight which does involve declassifying some intelligence, things that the White House does not usually do. The National Security Council issued a statement debunking and denying reports that have been published widely. They`ve been on other networks. We have not published these reports that Kayla during her captivity was under the protection of an ISIS commander. There were all sorts of implications, it`s very distressing for the family, it had been denied, denied to me by intelligence officials, denied, and sort of -- you know, not confirmed at all by the State Department or the White House. But at this stage, they`re putting this statement out tonight just to try to reassure people, and to try to protect the family from these continuously anonymous circulating reports. Which I think did originate with a foreign intelligence service, but nothing that to the best of my knowledge has been confirmed by any of the U.S. intelligence agencies. MADDOW: And just to be clear, I do not want to further the information that the family and White House said is incomplete. And just to be clear in terms of what is being debunked here, essentially the implication of what`s being unanimously reported out there is that she somehow was in cahoots with her captors, that being described as a hostage isn`t fair, that she somehow was willingly associated with at least one man who was a fighter in ISIS. And that is what -- that is what the National Security Council is saying they want people to not believe. MITCHELL: And normally, they would not deny these things, because it would involve intelligence. But what they`re saying now is, this is too important, this family has suffered enough. These reports are simply not true. MADDOW: In terms of the National Security Council spokesperson, Bernadette Meehan, I`ll just read you part of the statement, so people know exactly what they`re putting out. "Out of respect for Kayla`s family, we haven`t shared details of her time in ISIL captivity. In addition, as we have consistently made clear in the past, we don`t discuss intelligence. At this time, given the distress that anonymous sourced reports regarding her time in captivity are causing her family, we are providing this comment with the Mueller family`s consent. Reports that have been published by certain news outlets regarding her time in captivity are speculative and unproven at this time. The U.S. government continues to analyze any information regarding her captivity but has not corroborated any of the multiple theories regarding the conditions throughout the duration of her captivity." Basically, as far as you know, Andrea, does the family have a direct line to the White House, that they were able to ask for this personally? That`s how this happened? MITCHELL: Yes. It`s Lisa Monaco and others in the National Security Council have been working with them for 18 months. That is partly how, with ISIS threatening to kill their daughter, they persuaded hundreds of news organizations and reporters, including myself, not to report her name, not to report her identity until, as you know, she was outed by ISIS itself. They do confirm -- people have confirmed to me that the -- at one point, the family was so desperate with a 30-day execution warning from ISIS, that they did ask the president to commute the sentence of a very powerful and prominent terrorist who`s been -- a woman who has been in a Texas prison, Siddiqui, an al Qaeda terrorist, and convicted woman, and the White House did not do that. And that 30-day period elapsed and they got proof of life, so they knew that that threat evaporated. They have done everybody to try to save their daughter, and with the cooperation of the media. But since her death, it`s been widely reported - - I mean, just all sorts of rumors and reports that, frankly, I was aware of before she was outed, before she died, and we have not reported any of this. And other people have. And it`s very distressing to a grieving family. MADDOW: NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent, Andrea Mitchell -- Andrea, thank you for being here tonight -- MITCHELL: Sure thing. MADDOW: -- to help us explain. It`s really important stuff. I appreciate it. MITCHELL: You bet. MADDOW: Again, breaking news tonight, the White House putting out a statement tonight from the National Security Council, declassifying information related to intelligence they would not otherwise have declassified, and they did it out of respect for Kayla Mueller`s family who was very distressed that anonymously reports that have been aired, not by MSNBC or NBC, but by other news outlets, basically insinuating that Kayla Mueller may not have been an unwilling hostage with ISIS. Those reports again described as very distressing to Kayla Mueller`s family. The National Security Council saying they are speculative and unproven at this time. Andrea further reporting tonight that in addition to the ransom demands that ISIS made for her, that at one point they demanded a prisoner exchange. And that request was furthered by Kayla Mueller`s family, they asked the White House to go ahead with the prisoner exchange. The White House did not for all the reasons they do not do it under other circumstances as well. All right. We`ve got lots more ahead. Please do stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) MADDOW: You should know that this is the thing that happened today. And now, here`s the thing. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SUBTITLE: And now, here`s the thing -- Today, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker became the latest 2016 hopeful to take his campaign to London. (Note to 2016 hopefuls: beware of London!) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I finish with a question? I assume it`s a tradition now to ask visiting -- particularly Republicans -- senior Republicans to come to London. And it`s not about cheese. And it`s not about foreign affairs. It`s actually about evolution. Do you -- are you comfortable with the idea of Evolution? Do you believe it? Do you accept it? GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: For me, I`m going to punt on that one as well. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Really? WALKER: That`s a question a politician shouldn`t be involved in one way or another. I`m going to leave that up to you -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any British politician, right or left wing, they would love -- and say, yes, of course, evolution is true. WALKER: To me, I said, it`s one of those I`m here to talk about trade, not pontificate on other issues. SUBTITLE: Governor Scott Walker "punts" on whether evolution is true. London audience laughs out loud, in disbelief. And that is a thing that happened. (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: Bobby Jindal on Muslim only no-go zones that he made up. Chris Christie on vaccines. Now, Scott Walker on evolution. "I`m going to punt on that." 2016 candidates, London is quicksand. Danger, Republicans, danger. Think twice about that trip. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Make no mistake: this is a difficult mission. And it will remain difficult for some time. It`s going to take time to dislodge these terrorists, especially from urban areas. But our coalition is on the offensive. ISIL is on the defensive, and ISIL is going to lose. (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: President Obama at the White House today making a formal request to Congress that they retroactively authorize a war that we`ve already been fighting for more than six months now. It`s awkward. They`ve been relying on the congressional vote that was taken right after 9/11, which authorized the U.S. military to fight the people who carried out the 9/11 attacks. That`s been the authorization until now. The down side of using that vote from 2001 as legal justification for what we`re doing now in 2015 is obviously what we`re doing now in 2015 has nothing to do with 2001 and 9/11 and Osama bin Laden and all the other things that Congress meant when they passed that resolution 14 years ago. That`s the down side. The upside, however, is that that thing is still laying around, available to be used. If it feels like we`re always at war somewhere, but we never talk about it anymore, it`s because we are. Once Congress decided to go to war after 9/11, they made no plan for ever stopping that war. And so, the authorization for post-9/11 use of military force, that has morphed indefinitely over the years to effectively authorize military force anywhere, anytime, indefinitely. Today, President Obama announced that he would like, finally, for the first time in more than a decade, for Congress to take another vote on authorizing military force, this time, specifically against is. And this time, he wants to do it a little differently. Most importantly, this time the authorization won`t just go on indefinitely forever. The authorization for military force that President Obama proposed today comes in with a built-in expiration date. It expires in three years. If as a country we decide we want to keep fighting after that three-year period, we certainly can. But Congress would have to take another vote. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: So, this resolution will give our armed forces and our coalition the continuity we need for the next three years. It is not a timetable. It is not announcing that the mission is completed at any given period. What it is saying is that Congress should revisit the issue at the beginning of the next president`s term. (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: If the case is compelling enough, that men and women from America`s armed forces should be put in harm`s way, in a war context, because the case is so compelling that we need to be doing that, then it shouldn`t be that big of a problem to win a vote in Congress for them to do that. That`s the way it`s set up, right? But the timing that president decided there, the three-year timetable, that would be awkward. If the Congress passes this resolution that President Obama proposed today, to give legal authority to fight the war against ISIS, it would expire 2015, plus three, carry -- it would expire in 2018. And, you know, maybe everything will be over in 2018. Maybe that will be longer than what the military needs to complete this fight. Maybe it will be all over by then. But if it`s not, that means that three years from now, in 2018, with the new president starting his or her second year in office, there will be a Congress ramping up toward the 2018 midterm elections. You know, it would be awkward. Obviously, a vote at that time on war, would be a politically awkward thing. Very politically difficult for lots of members of Congress taking a vote like that in an election year. But that is a feature, not a bug. Congress is supposed to vote on war. And it`s not supposed to be easy. Congress hasn`t voted on war in more than a decade. And while they`ve not said beep, we`ve been fighting wars for more than a decade, and the country hasn`t much noticed, except for members of the military and their families have watched as the civilian population has drifted further and further and further from the wars that are supposedly fought in our names. But it is supposed to be Congress` decision. It is supposed to be a hard call for Congress. It`s cooked into the Constitution that way, so we don`t remain a country constantly at war. Fighting a war is hard enough for American service members. Fighting politically about whether or not we ought to have a war is also supposed to be difficult. And that hard political fight finally belatedly just started today. Joining us now, Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, ranking member of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Murphy, it`s nice to see you. Thank you for being here. SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: Thanks for having me. MADDOW: So, you have been outspoken for the need for basically a national progressive approach to foreign policy, and to national security. You`ve argued that the hawks essentially so define our national security range of debate, that progressives, people on the left side of the spectrum, ought to speak out more firmly on these issues and decide more, essentially who the progressives are on this issue. Is this part of that? Does this authorization for the use of military force fit into your argument on that? MURPHY: Well, I think this debate is the defining moment for progressives. I would argue it`s even worse than what you laid out. The fact is, the only interesting foreign policy debate that`s been happening in Congress over the past five years, has been between John McCain and his interventionalists, and Rand Paul and his isolationists. And there are a lot of us who are progressives, but are also internationalists. We want America to play a role in the world. We just want to make sure that we learn from the mistakes of the last ten years. And the biggest mistake was thinking that the massive deployment of American ground troops inside the Middle East was going to cure a problem that was really a local, political and economic problem. We created more terrorists than we actually killed during the ten years that we were in Iraq. So, this is a defining moment, which is why many of us want to proceed with this authorization. But make sure that it limits us in a way that makes sure that we don`t repeat the mistakes of the past, i.e., that we don`t put another 100,000 ground troops inside the Middle East to fight ISIS, which won`t make this country any safer. That`s going to be a defining moment for progressives who want to be present on foreign policy debates, and want to shape some ground for ourselves having learned the lessons of the last decade. MADDOW: What do you think about the specific language that the president included in this draft today, that he says is meant to preclude any authorization of a large-scale ground force of the kind you`re describing? What do you think about his language? MURPHY: Well, to start with, I think it`s remarkable that the president is submitting authorization language to Congress that actually binds him, that restricts his powers. That is probably unprecedented in the post-World War II era. That being said, I think we`re going to have to finesse the language that he`s given us. He has two limiting factors in his draft. He said the troops can`t be enduring, and that they can only be defensive. Well, there`s absolutely no precedence built up around those two words. Enduring might be a year, but to John McCain, it might be 10 years. The Department of Defense is by its nature offensive in its operations. So, these are terms that we`re going to have to work with. But I think the president has made it clear, he`s not going to put major combat troops on the ground. So, we just want to make sure we have an authorization that holds true to the promise he`s made to the American people. MADDOW: This authorization language proposed by the president today would sunset the Iraq war authorization from back in 2002. It would leave the post-9/11 authorization in place which has been used to justify all sorts of things that have nothing to do with 9/11, all sorts of fight that have nothing to do with al Qaeda over the years. (A), that will be kept in place. Is that on the table in terms of the debate? And is the proposal from the president duplicating some of the problems from that 2001 authorization by defining not just ISIS, but ISIS and associated persons or forces? Is this another kind of authorization that could essentially justify wars all over the place? MURPHY: Yes, this is a huge issue. We`ve got to make sure we get the definition of the enemy right here, because what we`re seeing is that all sorts of terrorist groups in other parts of the world are now flying the ISIS banner. And if by simple affiliation with ISIS, the United States is now at war with those organizations in those countries, then it opens up a Pandora`s box. Not for this president, because I trust him, but for the next president who`s going to get the authorization for at least a year. So, we`ve got to get that definition right. And here`s what we can do with the 2001 AUMF, Rachel. We can sunset it after three years, just like we can sunset this authorization. So, maybe we can`t figure it out right now, what should replace the 2001 authorization, but we can at least put a sunset on it so it forces us to come back in one, two, or three years to get that authorization right for the first and final time hopefully. MADDOW: Senator Chris Murphy, speaking very clearly about this, but also really broadening the discussion. I think energizing a lot of people who usually felt alienated from this as a subject. Thanks for being here tonight. It`s always a pleasure to have you here, sir. Thank you. MURPHY: Great. Thanks, Rachel. MADDOW: All right. We`ve got much more ahead. Please do stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) MADDOW: So, we have some more breaking news to report tonight. This is really awful news, very sad news -- having to do with a hugely respected veteran reporter in the news industry. It`s just been confirmed moments ago that longtime CBS News "60 Minutes" correspondent Bob Simon has died in a car crash tonight here on New York City`s west side. A vehicle that Bob Simon was riding in is reported to have rear-ended another vehicle on the road and run into a median along the highway op the west side. Both the driver of the vehicle that he was in and Bob Simon himself were removed from the car. Mr. Simon later died at a nearby hospital. We currently do not know the status of the driver of that car. But, again, Bob Simon, longtime correspondent for "60 Minutes," has been killed in this car crash. Bob Simon was a longtime foreign correspondent for CBS News. He covered the war in Vietnam. He`s recently the unrest in the Middle East, including in Iraq and Egypt. Bob Simon won more than 20 Emmy Awards for his work over the course of his career, as well as a Peabody Award and a host of other highly esteemed awards for his reporting over the years, on the decades. But again, this very sad news breaking just within the last few minutes, is that Bob Simon, CBS correspondent, has died tonight at the age of 73. I`ll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) MADDOW: Last night at around 5:00 p.m., a quiet apartment complex near the campus of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, there was a burst of gunfire. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, CHAPEL HILL 911 CALL) CALLER: I just heard gunshots. I don`t know what building it came from, but I heard kids screaming. 911 OPERATOR: OK. How long did you hear it? CALLER: How long? Probably 30 seconds ago. 911 OPERATOR: How many shots did you hear? CALLER: Multiple. I mean, at least between 5 and 10, I would say. (END AUDIO CLIP) MADDOW: Shortly after police arrived on the scene, they found the bodies of three young people: 23-year-old Deah Barakat, his wife Yusor Abu- Salha, age 21, and her younger sister Razan, who is 19 years old. Mr. Barakat was a doctoral student at UNC`s dentistry school. His wife Yusor planned to enroll there in the fall. These two were just married in December. Yusor`s younger sister was visiting from Raleigh. She was studying architecture at North Carolina State, all three of them were excellent students, all three of them were Muslim, all three of Arab descent. The two sisters commonly wore head scarves. And in addition to the grief of the loss of these three super- promising young people in North Carolina, that fact about their ethnicity and religion and the visible nature of the religious observance of the two sisters that has led to concern and suspicion that they could have been targeted and killed because of their religion. Police have now arrested their upstairs neighbor as the only suspect in the crime, 46-year-old Craig Steven Hicks. Mr. Hicks has been charged with three counts of first degree murder. The father of the two young women who were killed told the "Raleigh News Observer" today that there had been friction between Craig Hicks and his daughter and her husband before. He said Mr. Hicks had worn a gun visibly during past confrontation, quote, he said, "This man had picked on my daughter and her husband a couple times before and he talked with them with his gun in his belt. They were uncomfortable, but they did not know he would go this far." Chapel Hill police chief today put out a statement saying, "We understand the concerns about the possibility that this was hate motivated. We will exhaust every lead to determine if that is the case." That said, the Chapel Hill police put out a statement saying that their preliminary investigation indicates the crime was motivated by an ongoing neighbor dispute over parking at the apartment complex. Parking? Maybe that does start to explain what happened, an everyday argument over where to park the car, taken by one party to some awful level of violence and three murders. But the families of the victims say they are not convinced. Again, here`s the father of the two young women who were just killed. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. MOHAMMAD ABU-SALHA, VICTIMS` FATHER: We heard from the media, not from the media, from the police that each one of these children had a bullet in the head. This was an execution-style, this was a hate crime from a neighbor our children spoke about. (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: Police say they are investigating that possibility it could have been a hate crime. It`s not clear what the motive was at this point. As for what it`s worth, the suspect`s wife told reporters today in a live statement that she is convinced this had nothing to do with religion. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KAREN HICKS, WIFE OF CRAIG HICKS: I can say with my absolute belief that this incident had nothing to do with religion or the victim`s faith, but in fact, was related to the long-standing parking disputes that my husband had with the neighbors. And our neighbors are various religions, races, and creeds. (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: Whatever turns out to have been the motive for these killings in Chapel Hill, look at this. Thousands of people have gathered at UNC for a vigil to honor the victims. Joining us now is Mark Kleinschmidt. He`s the mayor of Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Mayor Kleinschmidt, thank you for taking time to talk with us tonight. I know this is a difficult time for your city. MAYOR MARK KLEINSCHMIDT (D), CHAEPL HILL, NC: Yes, it has. All our hearts are hurt tonight, as we`re just trying to find ways to comfort ourselves in the face of just unspeakable and a very difficult to understand event that happened in the last 24 hours. MADDOW: Can you tell us how the investigation is being handled? And what`s the status of these efforts that obviously a lot of people are very concerned with beyond their grief at the crime about whether or not this may have been a biased related crime that targeted these young people because they were Muslim? KLEINSCHMIDT: You know, I actually was just earlier this evening at a table sitting with our police chief, members of the community, including the council on -- the Council on American and Islamic Relations. And we were discussing just that, how should this investigation continue? Our police chief was very clear -- everything is on the table. We are committing every resource and every relationship with every other jurisdiction, including the federal government, to investigate what could have motivated this man to act in this really irrational or impossible to understand way. The earlier statements that were released recounted the initial -- the initial reasons that were provided. But I know, and I`m sure you and your viewers know, that there is a lot that needs to be learned. I expect that we will learn a lot. And we`ve also received the confidence of the community and those I was meeting with tonight, that they believe our law enforcement officers are doing everything they can. And I will continue to insist tonight. MADDOW: Imagine you`re heartened tonight at this vigil. A ton of people out there tonight. KLEINSCHMIDT: Yes, it was an extraordinary event. I stood on the stage and looked out and could not see the edge of the crowd. It was perfectly reflected of what kind of community we have here at Chapel Hill. You know, we have a well-earned tradition of being considerate, welcoming, compassionate, and peace-loving community. And while the events of last night are a jarring contrast to that reputation, what occurred tonight in that vigil truly represented what the values of this community are. Tonight, the people of Chapel Hill, the student body at the university are committing to living up to those values and we`re standing with each other to provide that compassion that`s needed to get through these very difficult times. MADDOW: Chapel Hill Mayor Mark Kleinschmidt, thank you so much for your time tonight, sir. Good luck to you. KLEINSCHMIDT: Thank you for having me, Rachel. MADDOW: We appreciate it. All right. We`ll be right back. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) MADDOW: Tonight, Congress teed up President Obama for his first veto since 2010 and the first veto on a big thing in forever. By a vote of 270- 152, the House voted tonight to force approval of the construction of the Keystone pipeline. The president has promised to veto this legislation and House Speaker John Boehner says that means that the president is, quote, "standing with a bunch of left fringe extremists and anarchists." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We build pipelines around America every single day. (END VIDEO CLIP) MADDOW: Yes, yes, we do. We build pipelines all the time. And as we await the first substantial veto of the Obama presidency, we`ve got ourselves a little scoop about how that`s going. And that will be here tomorrow night. And I will see you then, because now, it`s time for "THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL." Good evening, Lawrence. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END