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PoliticsNation with Al Sharpton, Transcript 10/23/2016

Guests: Boris Epshteyn, Judith Browne Dianis, Stephanie Schriock, Jesse Jackson, Maria Teresa Kumar, Rich Galen

Show: POLITICS NATION Date: October 23, 2016 Guest: Boris Epshteyn, Judith Browne Dianis, Stephanie Schriock, Jesse Jackson, Maria Teresa Kumar, Rich Galen


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump`s new opponent, democracy.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will totally accept the results if I win.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attacking the integrity of the election, while insulting his opponent.

TRUMP: Such a nasty woman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Trump trying to win or lay the ground work for his own TV network? One-on-one with the Trump senior adviser. Plus, the rhetoric of a demagogue and the lessons for today.

GEORGE WALLACE, AMERICAN POLITICIAN: They`re trying to rig the election.

TRUMP: The media is trying to rig the election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The election, just 16 days away.

AL SHARPTON, HOST: Good morning. I`m Al Sharpton. Just over two weeks from the election, Donald Trump seems to have a new target, democracy. In the days to come, you can expect Trump to dig in deeper. He (INAUDIBLE) he may accept the results of the election or he may not.

TRUMP: I will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election if I win. I would also reserve my right to contest or file a legal challenge in the case of a questionable result.

SHARPTON: Here`s how NBC`s focus group reacted in real time to Trump`s initial comment on this at the debate. Just watch the dial.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you make the same commitment that you will absolutely -- sir, that you will absolutely accept the result of this election?

TRUMP: I will look at it at the time. I`m not looking at anything now. I`ll look at it at the time. What I have seen, what I`ve seen is so bad.


SHARPTON: That has earned some powerful rebukes from many Americans, including President and Mrs. Obama.

BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: When you try to sow the seeds of doubt in people`s minds about the legitimacy of our election, that undermines democracy. Then you`re doing the work of our adversaries for them.

MICHELLE OBAMA, U.S. FIRST LADY: You do not keep American democracy in suspense. Because, look, too many people have marched and protested and fought and died for this democracy.

SHARPTON: The Washington Post says Trump is now running a grievance campaign. Not designed to win, but to appeal to his base. 45% of republican voters say they may not accept the election outcome if their candidate loses. Nearly half of the party. And there is something we also see at Trump rallies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she wins, will you accept the outcome?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she wins, will you personally accept the outcome of the election?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Hillary Clinton wins, will you accept the outcome?






SHARPTON: Those feelings have been fuelled by the rhetoric from the candidate himself.

TRUMP: Remember, we`re competing in a rigged election. This is a rigged election, folks, OK. This tremendous voter fraud. People that have died 10 years ago are still voting, illegal immigrants are voting. Millions of people that are registered to vote that shouldn`t be registered to vote. Look, if nothing else, people are going to be watching on November 8th.

SHARPTON: People are going to be watching? For what? Widespread voter fraud is a myth. There is just a 1 in 32 million chance that someone committed voter fraud over the last 14 years. To put that in perspective, you`re more likely to be struck by lightning, you`re also more likely to be attacked by a shark, you even been more likely to have actually been elected president of the United States than you are find a case of voter fraud. Joining me now is Boris Epshteyn, Trump campaign senior advisor. Thank you for being here.

BORIS EPSHTEYN, TRUMP`S CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISOR: Oh, of course, thanks for having me.

SHARPTON: Well, Boris, just how big would Clinton`s win have to be for Trump to admit it is, quote, "not questionable?"

EPSHTEYN: It is not about the size of -- or any difference in the election, and Donald Trump is going to win. So, it`s not about Hillary Clinton`s, you know, supposed win that`s not going to happen. The issue here -- and we should be agreeing on this is that we want for the election to have integrity, to be proper, and then to be verified and certified and then there won`t be any issues.

SHARPTON: No. Well, we --


SHARPTON: We certainly agree with that. But when you raise issues like voter fraud, that have not been verified even by the Bush Justice Department, when you have people going out to a poll watch, who have said to reporters, they`re there to profile people, one guy said to racially profile, you`re not talking about integrity.

EPSHTEYN: I can find a guy who says a lot of things. Right? I mean, it`s --


SHARPTON: It`s not about (INAUDIBLE) these are your guys, these are your poll watchers --


SHARPTON: -- these -- this is your candidate talking about voter fraud that doesn`t exist.


EPSHTEYN: Let`s talk about voter fraud. I was on McCain campaign in 2008.

SHARPTON: All right.

EPSHTEYN: And on that campaign, we witnessed some of the following things. In Nevada, they had to hold Dallas cowboys starting line-up registered to vote. In Ohio, we had people being busted other states --

SHARPTON: Did you turn it in?

EPSHTEYN: Of course we turned it in.

SHARPTON: And were they found to be credible?


SHARPTON: Then why does the Justice Department even at that time report that voter fraud is 0.0003?

EPSHTEYN: Well, it also has the -- has to be the fact, would you count on voter fraud? Voter fraud is the (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: If somebody was registering people that was --


SHARPTON: The cowboys --

EPSHTEYN: Right. That`s voter fraud.

SHARPTON: That`s voter fraud.

EPSHTEYN: Yes. I`m not sure we get the statistics (INAUDIBLE) this is what I tell you that happened in Nevada. ACORN was conducting widespread voter fraud. In Ohio, busted from Illinois to Ohio where you could register and vote on the same day. In Colorado, we now know there were dead people --

SHARPTON: So, why does the data not show this? I mean, we talked about ACORN, who in ACORN went to jail for voter fraud? Name one?

EPSHTEYN: It`s -- if I to --

SHARPTON: Was this all -- but you say --

EPSHTEYN: Well, hold on.

SHARPTON: -- very verifiable. Verify it.

EPSHTEYN: Well, the fact that ACORN didn`t go to jail. Somebody that ACORN didn`t go to jail --

SHARPTON: But the voter fraud is the crime.

EPSHTEYN: Means that -- means that the Obama Department of Justice just didn`t prosecute.

SHARPTON: Voter fraud is a crime.

EPSHTEYN: I agree with you. I --


SHARPTON: Yes. Well, states --


SHARPTON: States can prosecute voter fraud.

SHARPTON: Well, it`s a federal -- a federal crime. (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: But no (INAUDIBLE) people in New York State have gone to jail for messing with elections.

EPSHTEYN: Great. And so, we should have more of them go to jail. In Pennsylvania --

SHARPTON: Come on. Come on. It is bogus, Boris.

EPSHTEYN: In Pennsylvania made over 700 (INAUDIBLE)


SHARPTON: Will Trump accept the outcome of the election?

EPSHTEYN: He will win the election. And as long as this don`t --

SHARPTON: If he doesn`t win, will he accept --

EPSHTEYN: As long as --

SHARPTON: -- the outcome of the election?

EPSHTEYN: As long as there is no instances that are similar to the Clinton`s paying for violence at Trump rallies, as long as there no instances of rigging the election.

SHARPTON: Are Clintons paying for violence at Trump rallies?

EPSHTEYN: We now right from Project Veritas. We know from the Project --

SHARPTON: Well, we know that that`s what someone alleged with WikiLeaks.

EPSHTEYN: No, no, no. That happened from the Veritas video from the gentleman who`s been at the White House over 340 times, part of the democrat machine is (INAUDIBLE) now fired and he was inciting violence at Trump rallies.

SHARPTON: Oh, you`re talking about the heavily edited video. Fine. We`ve --


SHARPTON: That`s a good distraction --

EPSHTEYN: That`s -- no.

SHARPTON: -- to use your candidate`s point, that`s a good pivot. Will he accept the outcome of the election?

EPSHTEYN: He`s been very clear. As long as the election --

SHARPTON: As long as he wins, that`s clear.


EPSHTEYN: He said as long as the election is proper, certified, and verified.

SHARPTON: According to him.

EPSHTEYN: Of course. No. (INAUDIBLE) he`s not -- he`s not --

SHARPTON: But do you understand what it does, Boris?

EPSHTEYN: He`s not the one certified. I know how certification works.

SHARPTON: Boris, I understand you got to represent him. But do you understand what it does to kids that watch this, do you understand we look around the country and around the world, when you have a candidate saying I`ll accept the outcome if I like it?


SHARPTON: I mean, we are going against everything the country is supposed to stand.

EPSHTEYN: You should be fair, when you are taking the words out of context. And as he said literally, I think -- within that -- and he said the next sentence, and then a few sentences, he said, "Of course I`ll accept it as long as everything is proper." And proper doesn`t (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: But he defines what is proper, though?

EPSHTEYN: Proper means verify to certify --

SHARPTON: But that`s not democracy.

EPSHTEYN: Through secretaries of state of each state and there is no widespread voter fraud. Which we have seen to a degree in `08 and `12.

SHARPTON: The secretaries of state said there were no widespread voter fraud. That (INAUDIBLE)


EPSHTEYN: How could they know? And the Election Day hasn`t happened yet.

SHARPTON: No, no, no. I`m talking about in the past, these are the same secretaries of state.

EPSHTEYN: What I`m saying -- well, a lot of them actually (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: But you`re going to believe him if he says Trump wins.


SHARPTON: But you don`t believe when he says no voter fraud.

EPSHTEYN: That`s not -- here`s what I`m saying. In --

SHARPTON: You got a tough job, Boris.

EPSHTEYN: In `08 and `12 there was voter fraud, it was not widespread, but it was voter fraud in the following states, in Nevada --

SHARPTON: It was not widespread.

EPSHTEYN: In Pennsylvania --

SHARPTON: So, then why is your --

EPSHTEYN: In North Carolina --

SHARPTON: Then why is your candidate saying millions of people voted, for 10 years people that are dead. That`s pretty widespread.

EPSHTEYN: He said millions of people who shouldn`t be registered are and that`s just a fact. There is (INAUDIBLE) registered in two state (INAUDIBLE) registered.

SHARPTON: Boris, got to go.

EPSHTEYN: Thank you very much.

SHARPTON: Thank you. You only have three more weeks to keep the voter --

EPSHTEYN: (INAUDIBLE) keep the balls in the air (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: Boris Epshteyn, thank you for your time this morning. Now, let`s get some facts on voting in this election. Early voting is already well under way in 22 states and on Monday 6 more will start welcoming voters to the polls. So far 4.4 million people have already voted and Election Day is still two weeks away. This week President Obama took aim at Trump`s claim about the process.


OBAMA: There is no way to rig an election in a country this big. I don`t know if Donald Trump`s ever been to an actual polling place, but, you know, he doesn`t even worry if what he says is true. This is just about him worried that he`s losing.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is Judith Browne Dianis of the Advancement Project. Thank you for being here.


SHARPTON: So, what effect could Trump`s lies about voter fraud have over the next two weeks, Judith?

DIANIS: Well, you know, it could -- it`s going to undermine our belief in the system. And that`s problematic because what we don`t want to happen is to have people who decide not to vote because they think that their vote will not count. We have been there before. The 2000 election in Florida, right? And so, what we want to make sure is that people understand that actually there is integrity in the system, that this voter fraud stuff is a myth, it is a lie. And, in fact, what is -- what is really funny, rev, is that the silver lining in his candidacy is that all these years the republicans have been crying about voter fraud, they`re throwing him under the bus.

In fact, you`ve got Paul Ryan, you`ve got the Secretary of State of Ohio.


DIANIS: You`ve got others saying there is no such thing as voter fraud, we have to believe in the system.

SHARPTON: Well, his representative finally said to me just now, there`s no widespread voter fraud, which is clearly not what Trump is saying. But let me -- let me raise another disturbing issue here that I raised to his supporter here, his spokesperson. He wants his supporters -- this is he being Trump, to be poll watchers. Here`s how one of them described it to the Boston Globe. Quote, "It`s called racial profiling. Mexicans, Syrians, people who can`t speak American, I`m going to go right up behind them, I`m going to make them a little bit nervous."

I mean, that sounds like voter intimidation, doesn`t it, Judith?

DIANIS: That`s right. And it is against the law. In fact, it`s against the law in the Voting Rights Act of 1965. We have been here, we have done that, and it is illegal now. And so, that`s one thing that Mr. Trump should tell all of his followers then. In fact, if you intimidate or threaten a voter, you can be convicted under the law. So, yes, so, I mean, we have been here. And this is unfortunate that it has come to this. And it`s because he continues to talk about not accepting the outcome of the election and he`s told people to go into particular cities.

Clearly, he`s talking about profiling black people --

SHARPTON: You know, the cities that he`s referred to, I did that last week on the show. But let me tell you another concern that I want to ask you about is a lot of these states are now open carry states, in terms of gun laws. Does that worry you? It does me. We talk about Trump`s poll watches, I mean, this could be dangerous.

DIANIS: Yes. It does worry me. You know, I think we have -- we have got to be on the -- on the lookout. I mean, you know, the thing is, of course, we`re going to have poll watchers out there also to protect voters from crazy people, from people who want to intimidate them. But, you know, in some states they won`t allow it, some states are saying that, and some local election officials are starting to say, we`re going to put in place some rules around whether or not you can carry a gun into a polling place.

And so we`re going to see this play out, and I think that one of the things we don`t want people to do is we don`t want them to be scared. There is too much on the line in this election.

SHARPTON: All right, we`re going to be wide awake and stay woke and watch through this to protect everybody wants to vote regardless of who they vote for.

DIANIS: That`s right.

SHARPTON: Judith Browne Dianis --

DIANIS: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Thank you for your time this morning. When we come back, how Donald Trump`s rhetoric about women has back fired. And later, a closer look at the only presidential candidate in modern history who could possibly outtrump Trump. This is PoliticsNation, only on MSNBC.


HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My Social Security payroll contribution will go up as will Donald`s, assuming he can`t figure out how to get out of it. But what we want to do is to replenish the Social Security --

TRUMP: Such a nasty woman.

SHARPTON: Donald Trump`s nasty woman comment at the third presidential election debate. It was just the latest in a string of anti-woman remarks that are not going to help with his gender gap in the polls. And Hillary Clinton mocked trump`s rhetoric at the Al Smith Dinner on Thursday.

CLINTON: People look at the Statue of Liberty and they see a proud symbol of our history as a nation of immigrants, a beacon of hope for people around the world. Donald looks at the Statue of Liberty and sees a 4. Maybe a 5 if she loses the torch and tablet and changes her hair.

SHARPTON: Joining me now is Stephanie Schriock, president of EMILY`s List, she was a guest of Clinton`s at the last debate. Thanks for being here.

STEPHANIE SCHRIOCK, PRESIDENT OF EMILY`S LIST: Thank you, reverend, for having me.

SHARPTON: First, nasty woman has become a feminist rallying cry. I`ve seen it on t-shirts and the like. Did that back fire on Trump?

SCHRIOCK: Well, it`s not surprising that another thing that Donald Trump has said about women has back fired. You know, I was there that -- in the debate, and I have to say, I`ve heard a lot of crazy things from Donald Trump this year. He`s offended so many people in this country. But there was something when he called her a nasty lady, that even in my gut I could feel it. And it`s because I think so many of us, so many of us around the country have been in rooms with, you know, some unqualified man who wants to belittle us.

And it was that moment that I think it didn`t matter what age you were, that women across the country, who were already angry with Donald Trump and his behaviour, and how he talks about women, said that`s it, I`m going to do everything to make sure that Hillary Clinton, who stood there with grace and with grit, we`re going to make sure she wins and that`s what`s happened. It has been an extreme excitement, explosion of women all across the country.

SHARPTON: How is your group using Trump`s rhetoric and statements to mobilize women voters this year?

SCHRIOCK: Well, you know, we knew as soon as he got into this race, 18 months ago, and, of course, you know, started off right from the beginning, calling Mexicans rapists, we knew this was going to be an extremely unusual, if I could be kind about it, election. But Donald Trump`s words and his actions and his bragging about sexual assault has been something that we want to -- wanted to make sure from, you know, particularly over the summer, that every woman and frankly every man in this country knows and so at EMILY`S list, we have communicated with women of all ages, particularly millennial women about how he talks about women.

Because then he has policies that back up this hatred. And it`s really -- it`s really been energizing women. We, in fact, started just a few months ago a program called Women Can Stop Trump and, of course, after the debate this week we did -- we figured we better join the choir that we are seeing on social media and we put out a logo that says Nasty Women Can Stop Trump. You know, it`s time for us to stand up and say enough is enough. Mistakes are too high.

SHARPTON: Now -- but Stephanie, the sexism against women is not new. Here`s a clip. Let me show you this. Here`s a clip from John McCain town hall back in 2007. Watch the reaction to the question about Clinton.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do we beat the [ bleep ]?

(Multiple Speakers)

JOHN MCCAIN, U.S. SENATOR: May I give the -- may I give the translation? (INAUDIBLE)

(Multiple Speakers)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, I thought he`s talking about my ex-wife.

MCCAIN: But that`s an excellent question.


SHARPTON: So, there`s a lot of anti-woman fervor down through the years, but have you ever expected it would get like this? And in this election, would some of the things that has come from the top of the ticket and at a time you have five new women senate candidates this year that are running for the U.S. Senate.

SCHRIOCK: Well, you`ve been -- you have been leading the movement for progressive change and civil rights in this country for a long time. You know, it takes generations, generations to move forward to put racism and sexism behind us. And we have a long, long way to go. This is one step. It is one really big step to elect the first woman president, and, in fact, reverend, we may actually have six, maybe seven brand-new women going to the United States Senate.

We have got all these wonderful women stepping up to run for the House of Representatives. Congress could look very, very different next year as long as our sisters stand together and vote this year. But as you know better than anybody, reverend, it`s one step in the process. It is a big one, an important one. But we have to continue moving forward, even after November 8th.

SHARPTON: Stephanie Schriock, thank you for your time this morning.

SCHRIOCK: Thank you, reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the long fight for voting rights. And how it`s continuing in 2016.


SHARPTON: This week, I traveled to Memphis, Tennessee. Whenever I`m in the city, I try to stop at the motel where Dr. Martin Luther King was assassinated in 1968. I saw the room where he spent his last night. It made me reflect on the price we`ve paid, and the progress we`ve made. Thanks to our civil rights leaders who came before us and remained faithful. I also thought about the voices in this election threatening to roll back that progress. Joining me now is one of my mentors, and who was with Dr. King that day he was killed, and who that same year when I was 13 made me youth director of the chapter of his organization in New York.

Reverend Jesse Jackson, founder of Rainbow PUSH Coalition. Reverend Jackson, thank you for joining us. And we recently celebrated your 75th birthday. And wanted to talk to you about your legacy and then to now your journey. But let me first ask you, when you hear the GOP nominee talking about poll watches, rigged elections, and voter fraud, is that a threat to Dr. King`s life and work and those of you that worked with him?

REV. JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: (INAUDIBLE) in two ways, thanks for allowing me to share with you today. One, to a call of what was voter resistance based upon race, to call it rigged is a diversion. On the one hand, to suggest that white poll watchers are going to black communities threatening and provocative. On the other hand is to suggest that if that same line of vote is he also resists making a commitment to honor the winner of the campaign, that there is another agenda.

The other agenda very -- may very well be a Trump America first partner and the network. So, it kind of -- then it goes in other dimensions.

SHARPTON: How dangerous is the rhetoric for Donald Trump to voters` faith in the democratic process to which you bring now when he talks about not conceding to a vote if he loses or not -- or honoring the vote of the American people on November 8th,whatever the result?

JACKSON: It undermines a credibility of the democratic process. Remember, the very first debate when the (INAUDIBLE) all of them agreed (INAUDIBLE) one except him. Then when there were two in states with Hillary Clinton, and Nevada, he said he will not -- he`d have to make up his mind about it so that -- it seem that he has an agenda beyond the agenda. He says if he wins, he`ll accept the outcome. If he lose, he will not accept the outcome. That is playing by two set of rules that is not very fair.

SHARPTON: How do you feel about Mr. Trump`s reaching out to some of the black clergy and saying he`s reaching out to the black community? You have run two of the historic races for president that, in many ways had dealt with the black church. How do you feel about Mr. Trump now trying to go to one or two black churches in Philly and Michigan?

JACKSON: He can`t reach out and push off at the same time when he says -- he says we want the ban on assault weapons, because they`re so very dangerous, and background checks on guns, given the level of violence in the country, he says he wants more guns to make us more secure. That`s pushing off. He said it`s against affordable health care for poor people and will not fight to raise wages for working poor people, that`s pushing all of them in terms of policy.

Also, the crown jewel of Dr. King`s movement was to protect the right to vote for all citizens. And when he`s against -- he calls that fraud. His urban policy is stop and frisk, law and order. And we need investment and development. And that`s a contrast between he and Hillary Clinton, he says stop and frisk, law and order, she says invest and develop. That is the King (INAUDIBLE) of history.

SHARPTON: You recently, as I said, celebrated your 75th birthday and many of us were there. What are you -- as you look at your journey, what are you most proud of and what would you say is your legacy in the things that you have found personal pride in, in this journey to now your 75th year as you wind down another presidential election year?

JACKSON: Well, I think, one, when I first went to jail in 1960 with seven classmates trying to use their public library against the backdrop of my father being a veteran of World War II, not being able to use -- having to sit behind Nazi (INAUDIBLE) on American military bases, I lost my fear of jails and death. It freed me up to pursue the politics of conscious and not fear. That`s the first thing happened. The second thing that happened was the capacity (INAUDIBLE) and then with Dr. King, how can one ever describe to having access of Dr. King (INAUDIBLE) before he was finally killed in Memphis, Tennessee, living in the wake of his legacy.

And I think the last point would have -- would have been -- I was blessed to go abroad and bring Americans home from jail in Syria, and Iraq, and Cuba, and Yugoslavia, and (INAUDIBLE) and Liberia, those are high moments of my life. And, of course, watching (INAUDIBLE) my age (INAUDIBLE) where you are today. That`s a big moment too, Al.

SHARPTON: Well, thank you, Reverend Jesse Jackson and you`ve given all of us a lot of big moments. Thank you for your time this morning.

JACKSON: Thank you, sir.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, the Trump effect on Congress. We`ll dig into the latest numbers on some critical down ballot races that could shift the balance of power on Capitol Hill.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To deny that you may accept the election results is just unfathomable that you could do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My view is we have a democratic process, we have elections, I`ve won elections, I`ve lost elections, and I respect the results of an election.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that, first of all, as a former attorney general, that you -- he should accept the outcome and that this is important.


SHARPTON: Republicans reacting to Trump`s statements about the election. Many in the GOP are starting to see the writing on the wall when it comes to Trump`s chances in the election. A conservative group has begun airing the first TV ad this cycle, implicitly accepting that Trump might not win.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America`s future is far from certain. But no matter who the next president is, New Hampshire needs a strong voice in the U.S. Senate. That senator, Kelly Ayotte.

SHARPTON: The senate is looking grim for republicans with democrats leading or close in most of the key seats currently held by the GOP. And now President Obama is jumping in, campaigning for Congressional democrats, both on the trail and on the airwaves.


BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: This year the voters of Pinellas County have an opportunity to elect a public servant who is always put the people first, Charlie Crist. It`s about who we are as a people. Vote for Brad Schneider and the democrats. (FOREIGN LANGUAGE) Barack Obama (FOREIGN LANGUAGE) Patrick Murphy.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is Maria Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino and Republican Strategist, Rich Galen. Thanks for being here.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR: Thanks, reverend.

SHARPTON: Rich, how much is Trump dragging down republicans like Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire?

RICH GALEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it is a little harder to tell than it appears on the surface. Let me give you two quick examples. There are two times in our lifetimes, you`re too young, but our life -- sorry, wasn`t supposed to do that.

KUMAR: Don`t look at me.

GALEN: Our lifetimes where a republican won 49 out of the 51 jurisdictions, 50 states plus D.C. One was Richard Nixon`s re-election in 1992, and the second was Ronald Reagan, his re-election in 1980 -- 1984 -- in 1960 --

SHARPTON: Nixon`s re-election was `72 --

GALEN: `60. Yes, that`s right.

SHARPTON: Even though I don`t admit to being that much older than Maria.

GALEN: No, you`re not that -- you can`t remember it either.


GALEN: But the point -- the point of it is, Reverend Al is that, in both of those cases, 49 out of the 51 states won by a republican, wave elections, the democrats picked up a net plus two seats in the senate in each of those elections. I think what -- in the 202 area code, the 212 area code, the Acela Corridor, we forget that voters out there take this very seriously, it`s not just a mechanical operation for them, voting is very often a -- not just an intellectual exercise, but an emotional exercise, and I think they could tell the difference between who they vote for president and who they vote for down the ballot.

SHARPTON: Well, Maria, I mean, President Obama is slamming republicans like Marco Rubio for denouncing Trump`s rhetoric, but still support him on Election Day. Watch this.


OBAMA: Marco Rubio is one of those people. How does that work? How can you call him a con artist and dangerous, and object to all the controversial things he says, and then say, but I`m still going to vote for him? Come on, man.


SHARPTON: Maria, I mean, aren`t some GOP leaders trying to have it -- they kind of twisting themselves in knots here trying to justify that they`re supporting him, but they don`t agree with him. I mean, doesn`t the president have a point here?

KUMAR: Well, I think the president has a point. I think the American people actually recognize that the republicans right now they`re trying to have it both ways. Nate Silver just basically came out with a study and found that -- they came out with a poll and said that 71% of folks were leaning on the -- leaning on having the democrats actually take the senate because of what`s happening within the Trump campaign and this is before the last debate. So, it will be interesting to see what that -- what comes out of it.

But I think that at the end of the day, one of the reasons why Paul Ryan will not unendorse Donald Trump but at the same time will say I can`t help you, is that he is trying to do his darnest to hold his House together as best he can. And I think if he would at least renounce some of the things that Donald Trump has done, he would be much -- in a much better place. But that is also why you have so many people like Senator Ayotte coming back and saying, "Look, I have some skin in the game, I have to basically do this on my own because right now the Republican Party just simply doesn`t have the leadership."

And I mentioned that when, for example, when Chaffetz went and said that he was going to unendorse Trump, when he was asked on national TV, who did you call me for, you made that decision, he said no one. He didn`t call the RNC Chair, didn`t call the party. And he said that he didn`t call the candidate. And he didn`t call the Speaker.

SHARPTON: You know, Rich, it seems as though she mentioned Paul Ryan, seems as though Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are just trying to basically stay out of it. Will that work? I mean, is that even feasible?

GALEN: It`s certainly. I think it will for Ryan. I don`t -- I mean, everybody is saying -- not everybody, people are saying, well, now the House is in play. That`s not in play. The democrats will pick up seats without question. But it`s not going to be a democratic -- Nancy Pelosi is not moving into the Speaker suite. The Senate --

SHARPTON: But you do have some GOP lawmakers who are angry about Speaker Ryan`s position on Trump.

GALEN: Well, that`s OK.

SHARPTON: Listen to this, Rich. I want you to react to this then.

GALEN: The -- they -- OK, go ahead.


MARK MEADOWS, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: A lot of the people who believe so desperately that we need to put Donald Trump in the White House, they question the loyalty of the Speaker. There will be real discussions after November 8 on who our leadership will be.


SHARPTON: So, that`s North Carolina Congressman, Meadows. So, even if the House may not in your -- in your feelings be at play, if you have these conservative, the tea party to far right kind of members of Congress, is that what Maria`s referring to why Ryan is sort of, like, trying to not play in this because he doesn`t want to offend guys that he doesn`t need a rebellion if they maintain the House that would be after Speakership (INAUDIBLE) is this the problem?

GALEN: No, I don`t -- no, I think that`s looking through -- that`s looking through the wrong end of the telescope, I think, from Ryan`s standpoint. What he is doing and I think he`s tried to do from the beginning, got really dicey, I think, about a month ago. But what he`s been trying to do -- the republican congress spreads across the country and what he`s allowing people like Meadows to do is have that position without making somebody who is running in a more -- like an upstate New York, not having them have to defend what Meadows said.

So, what Ryan has done is he`s created a kind of a bubble for each individual member of Congress, and the democrats are doing the same thing. But -- and that`s very smart on both sides to let each person run his or her own race without having to deal with what somebody else said. (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: Well, do you agree with that, Maria? And doesn`t that rob a cohesive message from those parties in a -- in a critical national year?

KUMAR: Well, I`m not -- I actually -- yes -- no. I actually -- I think that -- it`s the very first time that you see a party that all of a sudden doesn`t -- that is leaderless. You have folks that are basically right now playing roles, but they`re actually -- they haven`t come forward, and said, "No, this is actually wrong and this is -- this is what the party is --

SHARPTON: There is no real collective vision.

KUMAR: There`s no collective. And --

SHARPTON: Yes. Well, like Rich said --

KUMAR: And that`s contrast that --

SHARPTON: Well, maybe I am looking at the wrong end of the telescope, I usually look upward for a message, not downward for House.


SHARPTON: We should race to the bottom.

KUMAR: But I think -- but I think -- but Reverend I --

SHARPTON: Rich, Maria Teresa, stay with me.

KUMAR: OK, thank you.

SHARPTON: I`ll be back. Up next, coming attractions, Trump TV, are we getting our first look at what the Donald will do if he loses?


SHARPTON: The 2016 ad wars have been pretty lopsided so far. Hillary Clinton has outspent Donald Trump by nearly four times this election cycle. Trump might be saving his cash for another project. Like Trump TV. Rumors have been swirling for months that he might team up his new campaign boss, the head of Breitbart, to launch some sort of media organization. And we may have gotten a preview this week on Trump`s Facebook page. He streamed a program before and after the debate that looked a lot like a TV news show with a lot of love for Trump.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those false stories about Mr. Trump received 23 times more coverage than the real information that came out about Hillary Clinton.

JUDGE JEANINE PIRRO, LEGAL ANALYST: They thought that he was on his game tonight.

KATRINA CAMPINS, BUSINESSWOMAN: What the media is portraying is not him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now we see the corruption, the fraud that is going on and the democratic process.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He killed the (INAUDIBLE) I mean, I think killed it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He nailed every question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought tonight was fantastic.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the best moment when Donald Trump was making a case for improving the economy for people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump`s performance tonight was one of the best I`ve seen at a presidential debate and I`ve been at many.


SHARPTON: Let`s bring back Maria Teresa Kumar and Rich Galen. Rich, does Trump want to be the president or does he want to be a media mogul?

GALEN: I think he wants both. But first of all, you can`t use campaign funds for -- to start a private company, so he can`t -- he can`t ensure those. In terms of starting a TV network, I have two words, Al Gore. He tried to do it in a -- ended up selling it, he made money, because he sold the channels to Al Jazeera. But it`s a heavy, heavy lift to start a TV network and getting people to watch day after day after day, it`s not like radio where you set up the studio, and somebody sits down and talks, as you know, it takes dozens of people, maybe hundreds to put this on.

SHARPTON: Yes. But, if you look at the fact, he raised $9 million off his Facebook page during the live stream on debate night, $9 million. So, there is a market, Maria. Could he turn some sort of Trump TV into a viable business where you have subscribers paying on a monthly basis, if he has a solid market out there as he -- as he seems to be indicating just with his Facebook page on debate night?

KUMAR: Right. I mean, look, he lost the presidential debate last Thursday. But he won basically making the announcement, he`s basically building this up and saying, "Look, am I going to concede? You`re going to tune in." And he -- and I want to make a bet on this, I bet that it`s because he wants him to have the largest free advertising of his infomercial to launch this television network. And I usually think it`s a different type of world that we live in. If you take a step back and remember when Glenn Beck basically left Fox News and started his television online, it`s cheap, it`s access to the million that had -- I mean, there`s websites that had 11,000 people visiting them every month, they have now 11 million people. So, there is definitely an advertise --

SHARPTON: 11 million?

KUMAR: 11 million.

SHARPTON: So, if they -- is that Rich -- there is an appetite. Is (INAUDIBLE) for this?

GALEN: Oh, yes. Getting at somebody who has a subscriber based column, getting people to actually pay is different than getting people to actually watch and read.

SHARPTON: But do you feel that Donald Trump given all of the hype he`s gotten, and the entertainment side of him could probably get more subscribers than most on the far right?

GALEN: Oh, sure. And, you know, what else it does, what else it does, it gives him -- when he loses on November 8th, he gets to say, "Well, I`m glad I did this, I thought I might win, I didn`t win, but what I really want to do is this."

SHARPTON: Yes. And that`s what a lot of people including me think he may be going to and then it would be a battle between him and Fox. Not that I would ever instigate a civil war on the right. Rich Galen, thank you Maria Teresa Kumar, thank you both for being here. We`ll be right back.

KUMAR: Happy Sunday. Thank you.



SHARPTON: Donald Trump`s critics say he`s a demagogue with an obvious precedent in American history. George Wallace ran for president in 1968. He ran a racially charged campaign, attacking the polls, and the media, and what he called a rigged system. We here at PoliticsNation have found some striking new parallels between Wallace and trump. Watch.


GEORGE WALLACE, AMERICAN POLITICIAN: Of the Gallup Poll and the Harris Poll and my judgment is controlled by the Eastern money interest.

TRUMP: The Washington establishment and the financial and media corporations that fund it --

WALLACE: They want to see Mr. Nixon elected president.

TRUMP: Their agenda is to elect crooked Hillary Clinton.

WALLACE: And we`re going to return some sanity to the American governmental stage.

TRUMP: We`re going to put sanity back into the White House.

WALLACE: We`re going to show some of these pollsters they don`t know what they`re talking about because they`re trying to rig the election.

TRUMP: The media is trying to rig the election.


SHARPTON: The same rhetoric with the same goals, in 1968, voters rejected Wallace. On Election Day, we`ll see what their verdict is for Donald Trump. But as I`ve said this whole program, all of what we`re looking at goes back and represents certain political traditions and streams in America. And what it is stood for throughout its history. When you vote, it`s not about who you like or who turns you on, it`s what side are you on? And what American tradition are you wanting to continue that will best protect you, your family, and your community.

That`s our choice. There are many streams, which one will you travel? That does it for me. Thanks for watching. I`ll see you back here next Sunday. And, remember to get out there and vote.