Show: MTP DAILY Date: November 23, 2016 Guest: Bob Herbert, Annie Karni, Ian Tuttle, Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Gavin Jackson, Annie Karni, Ian Tuttle, Bob Herbert, Tim Ryan
STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC ANCHOR: And that's it for this hour. I'm Steve Kornacki, have a great Thanksgiving everyday. MTP Daily with Katy Tur in for Chuck Todd, starts now.
KATY TUR, MSNBC ANCHOR: It's Wednesday, team Trump continues a pre holiday hiring spree, but with 57 days until inauguration. There's still a lot of work to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUR: Tonight, loss in transition, how the president-elect's core issues have already evolved over the past two weeks and what that means as he stocks his cabinet.
Plus, Congressman Tim Ryan joins us on his dark horse challenge to become the Democrat's leader in the House.
And what the Turkey part in tradition really says about America.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: Finally, turn our attention from polls to poultry.
TUR: This is MTP Daily and starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Good evening, happy Thanksgiving eve and welcome to MTP Daily. I'm Katy Tur in New York in for Chuck Todd.
The Trump transition team has relocated the Florida for the holiday, but he spent his final week workday -- workweek day filling out a few cabinet positions. And sprinkling out bits of information to keep us preoccupied through out the weekend.
Let's get through up the speed before you sit down to talk politic with your family tomorrow. First thing is first. Trump has elected South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley to serve as his ambassador to the United Nations.
She doesn't have any foreign policy experience, but she's a favorite to the GOP establishment and a number of them came out to praise her today. Billionaire Betsy DeVos has also been selected the Trump's Education Secretary, but she isn't getting as warm of a reception.
Two of the biggest teachers unions are already speaking out against her. And Dr. Ben Carson has confirmed he has been offered a cabinet position a few days after Trump tweeted that his former GOP rival turned to top supporter and surrogate was under consideration for the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development.
The transition announcement column did more follow up from Trump's on the record meeting yesterday with reporters and columnist at the "New York Times." During the discussion, Trump is softened on a number of his hard line campaign promises including bringing back torture.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT: I said what do you think of waterboarding? He said I was surprised. He said I've never found it to be useful. He said I've always found. Give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I do better than I do with torture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUR: But, it's unclear if this Trump is going to be our president or if stands on many of these other issues could change again. As I notice on the trail, Trump is they master at reading the room, sometimes flipping his position depending on who he was talking to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, MSNBC ANCHOR: So you're going to split up families?
TRUMP: Chuck.
TODD: You're going to deport children .
TRUMP: Chuck. No, no. We're going to keep the families together. We have to keep the families together.
TODD: But you're going to keep them together out .
TRUMP: But they have to go.
Having a secure border is a sovereign right and mutually beneficial.
Number one, are you ready? Are you ready? We will build a great wall along the southern border. And Mexico will pay for the wall. Believe me, 100 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUR: But, in one particular instance, he did stay on the message and on brand when asked about his conflicts of interest. Trump was steadfast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I could run my business perfectly. And then, run the country perfectly. And if there -- there's never been a case likes this where somebody had like if you look at other people of wealth. They didn't have this kind of asset and this kind of wealth, frankly.
You know, it's just a different thing. But, there is no -- I assumed that you'd have to set up some of type of trust or whatever and you know. And I was actually little bit surprised to see it. So in theory I don't have to do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUR: We'll talk more about the legality of that and some of Trump's other pending legal troubles later on the hour, but first let's stick to all things transition. We're looking at all the angles tonight with NBC News, Kristen Welker. She's in Palm Beach, Florida where Donald Trump is spending the holiday.
Julie Hirschfeld Davis, White House reporter for the New York Times, she was in that on the record meeting with Trump at the times yesterday.
And Gavin Jackson from Colombia South Carolina, he's the South Carolina State House reporter for the post and the courier paper. Let me begin with my colleague Kristen Welker.
Kristen, get me up to speed on Governor Nikki Haley. Why is she being so well-received by the GOP establishment even though she doesn't have a much in the way of foreign policy experience?
KRISTEN WELKER, NBC CORRESPONDENT: You are right Katy. She is being very well-received. She's a rising star in the Republican Party as she sort of hit all the marks.
She's 44 years old. She's the nation's youngest governor. Her parents emigrated from India. So, she checks the diversity box as well. But she is someone who was critical of Donald Trump during the primary process.
She supported Marco Rubio, then Ted Cruz. And then, only recently did she hey, she was going to vote for Donald Trump. Her one challenge I think if there's one in terms of having broad support is that she does lack foreign policy experience.
But, you even had someone like a Tim Kaine coming out today and saying that her executive experience will serve her well. She's also someone who earned a lot of national praise when she sort of led the fight to lower the confederate flag in South Carolina.
So, she is someone who is known for her record, respected for her record and I think there is someone concern about her experience. I was talking to a top transition official who said President-elect Donald Trump feels it so. He had good chemistry with her. That's one of the reasons why he picked her. And he also feels as though she's going to be a good deal maker. I don't know that is very important to President-elect Donald Trump.
And of course, he comes were learning that he's also tapped Betsy DeVos to be his Education Secretary. She's somewhat more of lighting rod Katy. She is someone who supports having more vouchers for children but who also opposed to common course. So, the reaction that we're getting from her, very mixed.
Jeb Bush for example saying, Betsy DeVos is an outstanding pick for Secretary of Education, but take a listen to NEA, one of nation's of largest teacher's unions. They say by nominee Betsy DeVos, the Trump administration has demonstrated just how out of touch it is with what works best for students, parents, educators and communities.
So, that could be a little bit more of a fight. But, of course, you have a Republican-controlled Senate. So, it seems as though both of these picks are headed towards confirmation and of course we're through watching Ben Carson. Dr. Ben Carson, who has been tapped for HUD Secretary and we are told he is still mulling that decision Katy.
TUR: And we're going to get a little bit more in Ben Carson for the Housing and Urban Development, a bit of surprising choice there. Thank you, Kirsten.
Now Julie, let me go to you. Lot's of softening on Trump's positions in that meeting with the New York Times yesterday. Did you get a sense he was playing to the room or playing to a particular reporter talking to Thomas Friedman, say about the environment and the Paris climate accord which is something that he's been pretty passionate about?
JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We'll he definitely was playing to the room and this is something that you saw him doing the campaign trail a lot. And he certainly came in there with a much more sort of non-confrontational. I'm trying to build bridges type of demeanor.
And of all the policies, we asked him about he did really moderate some of his positions from the sort of hard line stances he took on the campaign trail. On the stylist stick issues though, the conflict of interest, selecting Steve Bannon as his chief strategist.
Those sorts of things that have been seen and sort of flying in the face of convention, he was pretty on apologetic about those and sort of made the point that he is the president. He gets to pick his team. He gets to decide what he may or may want to do in terms of a fixing conflict of interest. So, you know in policy side, he really was tempering some of what he said on the stylistic side, not so much.
TUR: Talk to me about him softening his position on torture. What was the context surrounding that?
DAVIS: Well, he was asked specifically about his views on waterboarding which is something that he talked about some during the campaign. And he said he flat out, you know, torture works. But when we asked him about it yesterday, he talked about this conversation was General James Mattis who he is considering very, very seriously he said for Secretary of Defense.
And he said you know General Mattis doesn't t believe that torture works and he believes that building up trust and, you know, rewarding cooperation is better approach. And that carried a lot of weight with him that someone particular a General who's known as Mad Dog Mattis would not have, you know, the support for those kinds of techniques. Then, that obviously has had an impact on how we think about this. And so, thing that his softening his position on that certainly.
TUR: Last questions Julie. Talk to me a little bit about his conflicts of interest. He seemed to brush the notion that he's going to a problem with that by just simple saying the law is on his side.
DAVIS: Well, he just pointed out basically and this is true in fact that there are few actual laws that bind the president of the United States when it comes to conflict of interest between his position and a business holdings.
You may have now that tradition dating back many decades and across both political parties is that presidents will submit themselves to ethical standards so that there is not even the appearance of that sort of things. He said I don't want the appearance of that. I want to do something but just to be clear, I don't actually have to anything.
TUR: Julie, thank you so much. Let's turn out to Gavin Jackson. Who's a lot of experience covering Nikki Haley in South Carolina? First stop, what do you think of Governor Haley as U.N. Ambassador? I mean she was so outspoken against Donald Trump during the campaign. Why do you think he would turn around and tap her for this role?
GAVIN JACKSON, THE POST AND COURIER: Well, it was an interesting choice, no doubt. I think a lot of us we're surprised especially last week when rumors start coming out that she could potentially be Secretary of State of nation. But surprisingly when they met, she told us earlier this week that, you know, they have been friends before this whole political campaign season. And she said that they're still friends now.
What she specifically said though about some of those comments that you've seen her, you know, come out against Donald Trump for is that she says when I'm uncomfortable to something, I say something. And that's something the attitude that Donald Trump might like in her. She's not one to just tow the line and say yes and go about her way.
She's been kind of an outsider, her own sense here in South Carolina. I think that's what attracted him to her because in back in 2004, she first got into the State House here in South Carolina and she, unseated a 30 year incumbent to become, you know, an Indian-American female in the State House. I mean she wasn't the most popular person in the time State House at the time, but she worked her way up.
And then in 2010, she got involved in the gubernatorial race, Mark Stanford, former Governor Mark Stanford, talked to her about that and gave her the motivation to get in that race. And low and behold, she came out. She almost won the three-way primary with 49.5 percent in June 2010. So it kind of goes to show -- and then she obviously went on to win that race. But it goes show that she has this outsider quality that I think Donald Trump likes and definitely sees potential in her.
TUR: Well, if she is appointed. If she gets through confirmation, and they're going to promote the -- excuse me, the Lieutenant Governor Henry McMaster who was the first statewide politician in South Carolina to back Donald Trump's presidential bid. By tapping Nikki Haley for you an Ambassador does not effectively get a thorn out of Trump's side and then enable him to have somebody in the South Carolina Governor's role that's been a fan of his all along?
JACKSON: I think she would have worked well with Donald Trump regardless. She saw her at the Republican Governor's Association meeting last week where she was also elected Vice Chairman of the group. Saying that she was giddy to work with not only a Republican President, but a Republican Congress this have been the first time she would have that opportunity. So, I wouldn't say that she was necessarily a thorn. She eventually came around to supporting Donald Trump.
TUR: After four .
JACKSON: You know she's back in February .
(CROSSTALK)
TUR: It took four times our colleague Jacob Soboroff. He asked it, her four times at the convention whether she would vote for him and she finally realize it.
JACKSON: I remember that, yeah.
TUR: Yeah.
JACKSON: Well, I think actually back in February, she actually said regardless of who the nominee is, she would support the nominee. So I mean it's, you know, obviously she wasn't overly enthusiastic with Donald Trump becoming the nominee because she did support Senator Marco Rubio and then - - excuse me, Senator Ted Cruz as well. So I think it took sometimes but she did get to the Republican National Convention unlike a lot of her other colleagues.
TUR: Eventually getting there. Thank you, Gavin Jackson.
Let's bring in tonight's panel, Politico's Annie Karni, National Review Ian Tuttle and Demo Senior fellow Bob Herbert. Guys, thank you so much for joining me.
First Annie to you, Donald Trump is a master room leader. If he's softening in all this position, he's going back and forth on them does the American public know who they elected President?
ANNIE KARNI, POLITICO REPORTER: I mean to your point he even in the meeting with the New York Times he went back on say, I'm hating the New York Times. He's saying it's a institution that should be valued in our country. I think that it -- we don't know where he stands. I don't know why we would believe this version versus the older version. If he can flip once, he can flip again. I don't -- and a lot of those positions he left some wiggle room.
For instance, he was grilled about whether or not he would prosecute Hillary Clinton and he said it's not really a priority but I'm not interested in that right now. I don't want to hurt the Clintons. But I think they pushed him a few times on that issue and it wasn't a hard -- he left it out for himself.
TUR: Given that .
KARNI: But, I mean we were just talking earlier, do people care or did voters like him, the guy they know from television that powerful businessman, the guy who represents change, they like the personality in the show. Do they care where he stands in the issues? Time will tell, we don't know -- he hasn't actually made any decisions yet. So I think we shall see but .
TUR: He's only two weeks in.
KARNI: Yeah.
TUR: Into the transition that is not even to his Presidency. But Ian, I want to talk to you a little bit more about this idea that he's not going to prosecute Hillary Clinton. Breitbart has a headline out right now that said it's a broken promise.
I have conspiracy theory for this. My impression and tell me if you think this is totally off base. But my impression is that Breibart could be throwing something else to see how it lands, see how supporters react to it. And then Donald Trump eventually would have to come back and say, oh you know the people are demanding it. We have to look into this again. But right now he can -- meanwhile, look like a statesman. Tell me if I'm totally wrong.
IAN TUTTLE, NATIONAL REVIEW: I don't know if the causality works in that direction or not. I mean the links are certainly there. What I think is true is that Breitbart is going to want to create a veneer of independence every now and then and that's -- this is one of the ways of doing that. What, you know, a lot of folks on the right I think will be disappointed by this decision probably not as many as on left think. But from my point of view, I think it's a perfect reasonable decision and actually with decision that he should have gone through.
TUR: But even though his supporters on the campaign would yell lock her up, lock her up. Donald Trump even agreeing with them at one point .
TUTTLE: Sure.
TUR: It would coming wearing Hillary Clinton masks and prison garb. They would have t-shirts that said you now Hillary for prison. You think even despite -- even with all of that, they're going to be fine if he said no, no it's just campaign talk?
TUTTLE: I think ultimately. I mean one of the things that happened over the course of the campaign was the legal quiet -- the holding Hillary Clinton legally accountable and holding her politically accountable were collapsed, right? So by making sure that she didn't reach the presidency. That was in some sense a national consensus on holding Hillary Clinton accountable.
So a lot of people who backed on Donald Trump to do exactly that's to make sure there was not another Clinton in the White House. I think we're going to be willing to give him a pass if he doesn't go even further down, you know, taking her down.
TUR: And talk to me a little bit about Ben Carson potentially the Housing and Urban Development Secretary. I know that they were -- initially considering him or thinking about him for health and human services. He had said last week that basically he's not qualified to run a federal agency. Why would Donald Trump and his team come back to Ben Carson even though he had those comments last week?
BOB HERBERT, DEMOS: I think they are looking for a black guy in the administration. They want the adversity in the administration -- he's nominated a couple of women now, you know, when there's not a lot of black guys willing to serve in the Donald Trump administration. So there is Ben Carson. So it was like Ben maybe will change your mind. But the question arises if he's not qualified to serve in the federal government, that what makes him qualified to serve in this particular post?
TUR: Is there a concern out there that he just putting people in that he likes that don't necessarily have any qualifications? Nikki Haley could certainly be someone that accused of that on some level.
HERBERT: I think there's a concern across the board with Donald Trump. I mean we've talking about his flip-flops, you know, and I think of the guy sort of as like a as a Flin-Flam man, you know. I doesn't really matter what he says because you have no sense of whether he believes at himself or not. So he'll say blue today and he'll say red tomorrow. I mean think about the distinction on the torture issue.
On the one hand his on the campaign thrilling insisting that torture works and that's going to be part of his administration, and then he goes to the New York Times and suddenly his had a conversation with the general and says "Why, you know, the general told me that he could do better with a pack of cigarettes than a can of beer." You know so, that is an extreme difference. Pack of cigarettes and a can of beer versus say waterboarding. So one has no idea what Donald Trump believes in.
KARNI: You know I just think while you're talking that President Obama and the way he's talking about Donald Trump now is also making a huge break from how he spoke during the campaign and what he's doing is the responsible thing to have a peaceful transition of power. But in a way also that completely doing a 180 on calling him on temperamentally unfit to deserve. And now untrue he still believe that but acting differently. Almost makes gives Donald Trump a bit of a pass. Like everybody says things during the campaign and then turns around and says something completely different after.
TUR: There's about there that if Donald Trump needs to be given all the support. He possibly can to run a successful presidency not pregnancy, because it's better for the country regardless so there is no use in putting up a fight.
But Annie I want to talk to you about the article you wrote this week talking about Harold Ford Jr. He is being considered for something.
DAVIS: He's hoping that he's being considered for something.
KARNI: I think it's been a both end talking about having diversity in the administration. I think I've heard from a few Trump people that they want to have some Democrats and Harold Ford from the people I spoke to, he hasn't sat down yet with Donald Trump. But through he's good friends with Ivanka and Jared Kushner and Don Jr. and Donald Trump seen him on Morning Joe all the time.
TUR: Yeah. HE does watch morning .
(CROSSTALK)
KARNI: And we know Donald Trump likes people who look like Central Casting and Harold Ford is making it clear that he -- if Donald Trump wants to call, he would love to talk to him. So I think there's been some feelers put out both ways and Harold Ford is leaving that wide open.
TUR: Remarkable turn of them everyday. Guys stay with me. Coming up though, the campaign for the future of the Democratic leadership is already under way. I'll talk with Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan about the challenge he's announcing against Democrat Leader Nancy Pelosi. Stay tuned
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TUR: Forgive me for this shameless plug. What if 50 cents and I have in common? We'll you can see us both on Late Night with Seth Meyers. Seth and I will discuss with whirlwind election year and so much more. You can get the Late Night with Seth Meyers tonight on your local MSNBC station.
And we're back in 60 seconds with more MTP Daily.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TUR: The presidential is over but Democrats are not done campaigning and just one week they will vote on who will lead the House Democrats. This is a generational battle the veteran incumbent Nancy Pelosi against a younger challenger Tim Ryan of Ohio. Pelosi has led House Democrats since 2003 and said that two-thirds of the caucus is behind her.
He is just pic up an endorsement today from one of his colleagues Congressman Jim Cooper and Tim Ryan. The Boston Globe reached out to the Massachusetts House delegation while half plan is to support Nancy Pelosi nearly all agreed on the need for Democrats in Congress to be more inclusive of Roosevelt voices.
Tim Ryan said he's ready to be that voice. But are the Democrats ready to toss out their long time leader? Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio joins me now. Tim, thank you so much for joining us and happy Thanksgiving first of all.
TIM RYAN, (D) OHIO: Hi.
TUR: Thank you. Trump lost in Mahoney County which you represents but narrowed the margin from 2012. What can Democrats learn from your district?
RYAN: We got have an economic message, you know, we don't have a robust economic message and, that needs to drive us as Democrats that needs to drive our rhetoric, that needs to drive our policies. And, you know, we talked about things like an increase in the minimum wage, which of course I'm for but we need to talk about middle class folks making more money and not just the minimum wage.
And we disconnected ourselves from those working class people. And last Tuesday, they left us in droves all throughout the industrial Midwest and throughout the country. And now here we are a coastal party and not a national party anymore.
TUR: Well, speaking of which, you outperformed Hillary Clinton in two of your counties from Buchanan and Mahoning County. Is there not more you have done to make sure that she won Ohio?
RYAN: Well, you know, I tried my best, but, you know, that the message -- we've just been have in economic message. I mean I had an economic message. I talked about economics all the time. I think that's probably why you saw some significant difference between me. I mean I had people -- Hillary Clinton people voted for me and Trump people voted for me.
And I think that's an important argument that I'm trying to make now. If we're going to take the House back is that I can go talk to Trump voters and pull them back into our fold. I mean we lost some voters went with Trump and some voters stayed home. So we've got to energize our base. And pull Trump voters back. Can you do that by talking about jobs, economic growth opportunity, the new economy, manufacturing, rebuilding America?
These need to be the heart and soul of the Democratic message. And I can do that. I can go to any congressional district in the United Stated. I can campaign hard in those districts. But if I was in charge of the Democrats, we would have an economic message and that's the whole idea of this exercise here to have this election.
TUR: Why don't you Nancy Pelosi can be the one deliver that message? Why don't you think she has gotten that word? And why basically do you think you're going to be better for the role than she is?
RYAN: Well, first I love Nancy Pelosi. She's been a mentor of mine. I've got enormous respect for her. She's a historic figure, the first woman Speaker of the House. And I supported her work very hard to help her. But we've not done well. I mean we're down over 60 plus seats in the House since 2010. We have the smallest Democratic number in our caucus since 1929.
And it's just -- it's time for a change, you know, I mean if the coaches not winning games then we gave to change coaches. And I think it's important because we have to win 30 or 40 seats next in two years to take the House back.
And I just don't think at this point that the current leader can do that. And I take no joy in saying that, like I said I love Nancy but I think it is the truth. And I think most people in our caucus -- if we're being honest with ourselves recognize that 2018 is going to be a really tough slug to begin with let alone if we're, you know playing the same players that we played when we lost in 10 and didn't do enough in 12 and lost in 14 and only picked up a few seats this year.
TUR: Well, representative let's talk a little about the dynamic in the House right now and the demographics, 538 crunched some numbers, the average of the House Democrat is 59 years old. Well, for Republicans it's 55. The average age for Democratic leadership is 72, for Republicans it's 48. That is a massive difference. Do you think that there is a general -- generational divide for the Democrats that has gone unaddressed?
RYAN: Yeah, I do think there a lot of young members. Younger than I am, I mean I'm 43. I mean they're younger than me. They're very energetic. They're getting this enchanted because there's not an opportunity for them to spread their wings. There's not an opportunity for them to grow.
And I think that's a problem. And I've offered some reforms to our caucus to allow this people. You know get 15 or 20 of them. Let's get them on TV. Let's raise their profile. Turn them a rock stars. And then get them around the country. Let the country see what the Democratic Party really, really looks like. Let's get them into elected positions within our house leaderships so that they feel vested into what we're doing.
And those are important things to engage them respecting the seniority process but also making sure that people have an opportunity to thrive and spread their wings. And it's only going to increase the value of the Democratic Party, the energy of the Democratic Party. And so, there are a lot of younger people who are frustrated. And it's also geographical. I mean we don't have anybody in our House leadership from the Midwest.
I mean the Republicans are very smart, Paul Ryan from Wisconsin, Reince Priebus from Wisconsin. They just elected someone to run their campaign arms, Steve Stivers from Columbus Ohio. They're plant and seeds in the industrial Midwest in the heart land. And they're winning elections here. So it's not a coincidence, we just -- we got to get a new playbook.
TUR: Congressman Ryan, thank you so much and happy Thanksgiving again. Still ahead .
RYAN: Thanks, happy Thanksgiving.
(CROSSTALK)
TUR: Thank you. Still ahead, Google conflict of interest and the first news stories that come up include the name Donald Trump? We'll try to untangle or at least understand the President Elects many possible conflicts of interests when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TUR: Just moments ago, Donald Trump released a Thanksgiving message over You Tube. The president-elect acknowledged that tensions don't heal overnight. But the Thanksgiving holiday could be the start of healing the political divide.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: This historic political campaign is now over. But now begins a great national campaign to rebuild our country and to restore the full promise of America for all of our people. I am asking you to join me in this effort.
It's time to restore the bonds of trust between citizens. Because when America is unified, there is nothing beyond our reach. And I mean absolutely nothing. Let us give thanks for all that we have and let us boldly face the exciting new frontiers that lie ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUR: We will have more MTP Daily just ahead. But first, Aditi Roy has the CNBC Market Wrap.
ADITI ROY, CNBC REPORTER: Thanks so much, Katy. Great to see you. Stocks ended mixed ahead of the Thanksgiving holiday but for the Dow which rose 59 points, it was another record. The S&P gains a point also closing at a record. The Nasdaq drops five.
Minutes from the FED's last meeting showed policy makers were confident the economy was strong enough to make a rate increase appropriate and orders for long lasting durable goods jumped for a fourth straight month, climbing 4.8 percent in October. Thanks to demand for commercial aircraft. That's it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TUR: President-elect Donald Trump shed light on his administration's potential legal entanglements yesterday in an interview with The New York Times. But there is a lot left that is still in darkness. Plenty of story lines emerged in that interview.
Apparent changes on torture policy and climate change, new posturing in the Middle East, but the story that is everybody is Trump's saying he has no plans to investigate Hillary Clinton, a stark change from the position of candidate Trump.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation. Because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. There has never been anything like it. And we are going to have a special prosecutor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUR: Trump dropping that promise led newspapers around the country today. But legal experts say his position doesn't matter. A president Trump would have no authority to personally direct investigations.
That's just one of the many legal questions surrounding the president-elect as he prepares to take office including threaten lawsuit against essential assault accusers, a threaten libels suit against The New York Times, conflicts of interest with his personal business plus conflicts of interest questions surrounding his choice for national security adviser, retired General Michael Flynn.
Joining me now is Jonathan Alter, columnist for The Daily Beast and an MSNBC political analyst. Let's start off with Clinton, him calling off the investigation, hi, first of all. Donald Trump calling off the investigation is a broken promise. Breitbart is calling it that. Is it something that he is going to have to account for down the line?
JONATHAN ALTER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: No because he doesn't have the power to either order or call off an investigation. That's not a power that president has.
The attorney general is appointed by the president but the Justice Department for generations has been independent when it comes to deciding who to investigate. Otherwise, we just.
TUR: You don't create an environment though that sews the seed to start something like that?
ALTER: Fortunately because he has backed off of this is a very good thing, he has backed off, we won't face that question directly. So, we hope that he will not thoroughly politicize the Justice Department. The last president who did was Richard Nixon. It didn't go well.
TUR: No.
ALTER: The American people didn't respond well to mix on trying to corrupt and politicize the FBI. So, I think he is making a smart move here and trying to put all that behind him.
TUR: Let's talk about General Flynn. His group lobbied on behalf of the Turkish government. He wrote an op-ed in The Hill on the day of the election expressing support for the current regime, even though weeks earlier or months earlier he was expressing support for the folks that tried to do a coop on the government. Will his conflicts of interest in Turkey matter? And how much do they matter?
ALTER: We have to distinguish between where they will matter, they probably won't be subject to confirmation, and whether they should matter. The answer to that question is absolutely. So, you cannot run a foreign policy if you have officials in violation of government rules.
They prevent these sorts of associations for senior ranking officials. They are just going to blow right through those, disobey those rules because they don't care to force of law but they are traditions, another series of boundaries that Trump is violating.
But in the case of Turkey in particular, one of the most important and sensitive relationships with Turkey, central in the Middle East and in Europe. In this case, Turkey -- the Turkish government wants us to extradite a cleric they accuse of having plotted a coop against the Turkish leader. This cleric is now living in Pennsylvania.
They are putting the United States government under enormous pressure to extradite this man. Now, Flynn works for the Turkish government. So of course, he would want to go along with their demands that we send this man to his death in Turkey. If they bring him back, they will put him on trial for staging the coop and execute him.
The only problem is there is no evidence against him. What we are headed for now is a situation where because Flynn is so conflicted with his relationship with the Turkish government that we are on a path to sending a man from Pennsylvania to his death in Turkey.
TUR: With the Trump campaign, how they operated throughout this entire campaign and seemed to be operating with this transition is when these big controversial questions arise, they wait him out, they ride out the storm, and then something else happens and everybody moves on to that.
This seems to be something that could haunt them for years to come if they keep Flynn in the role. How does the focus stay on trying to resolve that question? Trying to make sure that the interest we have in dealing with Turkey are not conflicted.
ALTER: This is on us in the press. It's very easy to get us to move on. What we have to do is be willing to come back to these stories when there are future developments in them say in Turkey or other places. Donald Trump's family has business. The Trump organization has business in 11 countries.
That's 11 ticking time bombs of conflict of interest unless he sells his interest in his business or puts up other walls between himself and these businesses. These issues, Katy, are going to come up again and again and again over four years. And I don't think they will serve him very well. TUR: Why appoint somebody though who has these issues and why look into Rudy Giuliani who also has potential conflicts of interest as somebody that could be secretary of state.
ALTER: Well, he likes Giuliani who was very, very loyal to him during the campaign. But there is real indications from Ryan Paul and and other republican senators that Rudy Giuliani would not be confirmed as secretary of state. So we have.
TUR: Even with a republican majority in the senate?
ALTER: Yes because they only have a 52-48 majority. All it takes is two republicans and they have a problem. Even if they are not abiding by the filibuster. So, they will have a hard time getting Rudy Giuliani confirmed the secretary of state if they nominate him.
TUR: Jonathan Alter, thank you so much for joining me on this Thanksgiving eve.
ALTER: Happy Thanksgiving.
TUR: Thank you. Still ahead, The Lid. Why some Clinton supporters are calling for a recount at some of the closest contests and the unlikely ally they have in that fight. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The game of baseball has a handful of signature sounds. You hear the crack of the bat. You got the crowd singing in the seventh inning stretch. And you've got the voice of Vin Scully.
(END VIDEO CLIP) TUR: The voice of Vin Scully. That was President Obama honoring hall of fame broadcaster Vin Scully. Scully was one of 21 Medal of Freedom recipients honored yesterday at the White House. Following the ceremony, our own Chuck Todd sat down with the voice of the Dodgers to discuss among other things whether anything could top receiving the nation's highest civilian honor.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, TELEVISION JOURNALIST, POLITICAL DIRECTOR FOR NBC NEWS: Short of having a battle ship named after you, what's left? You had every award. Which one just sort of grabs you the most that you can't believe?
VIN SCULLY, SPORTSCASTER: This one of course I really can't believe. I mean, I've won a lot of awards in the business. So you know they are there. And you might once in a while think about I hope I win it and something like that.
But this one is outer space, you know. This is the biggest and greatest honor the country can give to a civilian. You don't think about getting that at any time at all. So, you're right. There is nothing left really.
TODD: Battle ship? What do you think? You take that?
SCULLY: I have a feeling it would not be a good one.
TODD: I don't know. I think people would be scared of that.
SCULLY: Yeah, right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUR: We are not in Los Angeles, but I'm certainly a fan of Vin Scully, having grown up in Los Angeles. You can see more of Chuck's interview with Vin Scully this Sunday on Meet the Press. We will be right back with The Lid right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TUR: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the United States. As hard as that is for many to hear, Trump did indeed win the most electoral votes in this month's election. But some are pushing to take a closer look at the ballot in key states.
A small group of scientists and activists are urging Hillary Clinton to call for a recount in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Three states where the final margins were narrow and where the group says the results may have been hacked. Clinton may not have to be the one that mounts the challenge.
Green party candidate Jill Stein announced today she is raising more than $2 million to file a recount in those three states. Her fund raising deadline is 5:00 p.m. eastern on Friday, the final day to call for a recount in Wisconsin. The panel is back. Annie, Ian, and Bob. Thank you all for joining me again. Do you think that this is a fruitless venture?
BOB HERBERT, JOURNALIST AND COLUMNIST, DISTINGUISHED SENIOR FELLOW AT DEMOS: I do. Yes, I think it is a fruitless venture.
TUR: Bob, why?
HERBERT: In the first place, this election is not going to be overturned. So all the machination that's might go into trying to get recounts here and there and everywhere will amount to nothing in my view.
TUR: My question is, we in the media and the people of this country and the Hillary Clinton campaign, we're always asking Donald Trump, are you going to accept the results? And they said, you know, we're going to accept them if they're clear and they even talked at one point about not accepting them until the vote is validated. That's gonna be coming up a little bit later. Now Clinton is doing it.
ANNIE KARNI, POLITICS REPORTER, POLITICO: She's not doing it.
TUR: Not doing it. Now people who support Clinton are doing it.
KARNI: I'm really interested in the Clinton position around this. They're not putting out a statement saying, please don't do a recount. They're letting it sit out there. And they're waiting to see and see like where it goes. They're totally leaving the door open for people to talk about it.
IAN TUTTLE, THOMAS L. RHODES JOURNALISM FELLOW AT THE NATIONAL REVIEW INSTITUTE: Which is troubling. I mean, after everything the Clinton supporters and the rest over the course of the campaign, you know, as a hypothetical. The other part that is deeply troubling to me or is frustrating, is that now you have all these people coming out and saying, well, you know, the main computer scientist who was featured in Gabriel Sherman's piece basically says his views were misrepresented.
But you have all these people now coming out and basially saying, well, we should do a recount just to be sure. It goes from the premise that this is probably, there's probably something fishy here, and we need to just be extra sure. That's not the way elections work. HERBERT: We've had presidents for this. Nixon in 1960, there were questions. He accepted the result. Gore, after the long hassle in the year 2000 said, you know, let's not challenge it further, we are going to accept the results. Clinton should accept the results.
TUR: Is this the best use of the democrats' time? Trying to figure out a way to get, you know, around this election? Or do they need to figure out a way to find support within their own party, number one, and within the country? Tim Ryan wants to take Pelosi's place. Is that a good idea?
HERBERT: Democrats need new, younger, more compelling candidates and they need a better economic message, just like your guest Ryan said. That's where they should be devoting their energies.
TUR: So why would they keep someone like Pelosi in that role if things have not gone so well?
KARNI: I mean her fund raising prowess will not be matched by Tim Ryan coming on day two.
TUR: Is fund raising prowess working considering that they continue to lose seats?
KARNI: No. I think that clearly something needs to change. I think she's hinted that she's going to create more space for younger officials to have more say and have more leadership posts. But from the people I've talked to, Tim Ryan, it is very unlikely that he is gonna unseat Nancy Pelosi. He has about three public supporters. I don't think she's scared right now that this is going to unseat her.
TUR: How do the democrats find a way to talk to the middle of the country? The rural areas of the country?
TUTTLE: It is very difficult. And I think your question about generational divide is important. I mean, this basically become a coastal cosmopolitan party that is mainly operating on the premises of 1960s counter cultural liberalism. They're going to have to move past that.
And there is a long tradition of working class industrial directed activism on the left that they would do well to resurrect. And I think at that point you can begin to take the focus off some of these fringe cultural issues. Put it back on getting people jobs and then maybe build a sustainable culture.
TUR: I want to ask you about your article. Paul Ryan and Donald Trump basically, this government waging a war on the poor. Give to it me. Break it down for me as quickly as you can.
HERBERT: I think there are very difficult times coming for the poor. Both Trump and Paul Ryan are hostile to Medicaid, hostile to food stamps, hostile to welfare, and hostile to unemployment insurance and minimum wage. So, it is not looking good for the poor.
TUR: Guys, thank you so much for joining me. Happy Thanksgiving. I do hope you'll all go start drinking after this, right?
HERBERT: I think probably.
(LAUGHTER)
TUR: After the break, pardoning the puns and the politics this Thanksgiving. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TUR: Finally tonight, in case you missed it. The annual turkey pardon ceremony got some laughs today at the White House. President Obama dove into Thanksgiving dad jokes as he freed this year's chosen birds. Tater and Tot.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: After a long campaign season, we finally turned our attention from polls to poultry. No way I'm cutting this habit cold turkey.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: I want to take a moment to recognize the brave turkeys who were not so lucky, who didn't get to arrive to gravy train to freedom.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: That's worth gobbling about.
(END VIDEO CLIP) TUR: And yes, it's silly but awkward. This silly but awkward tradition says something about our country. The first bird pardon on the record was in 1863 when Abraham Lincoln spared a Christmas turkey his son had befriended. In 1963, JFK became the first president to make a show of a Thanksgiving turkey pardon.
The country was never as divided as those two eras and if talking turkey can bring moments of humanity and levity then, well then there's certainly hope for this divided nation now. As we all are just one minute away from the political grind.
That's all for tonight. Have a happy Thanksgiving or happy turkey, what you like to call it, whatever you want to say. We'll be back on Monday with more MEET THE PRESS DAILY. "WITH ALL DUE RESPECT" starts right now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END