DAVE CHAPPELLE, AMERICAN STAND-UP COMEDIAN: He told the police he couldn`t breathe. One of the hardest positive tape to listen to, he said, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AYMAN MOHYELDIN, MSNBC HOST: Dave Chappelle on the death of George Floyd. I encourage everyone there to watch it.
That does it for me. Ari is back in the sit on Monday. Keep it right here on MSNBC.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, I`m Joy Reid.
Well, today is June 12, 2020. And this was the week, 155 years after the fact, when an American president, for the first time, questioned the outcome of the civil war, the bloodiest conflict in American history. No American president has ever questioned the outcome of that war until Donald Trump.
While the majority of Americans are facing this national reckoning on racial injustice and police violence in the aftermath of George Floyd`s killing by a Minneapolis police officer, Trump is still trapped in 1968 or maybe 1868.
The New York Times notes that his public opinion on racism has shifted dramatically. Trump is digging in. Whether it`s suggesting shooting protesters or seeking dogs on them or vigorously defending the confederate names slapped on U.S. military installations and the statues to the treasonous generals who took farms against the United States, or arguing that his MAGA supporters quote, love the black people, since apparently so few are the black people, Trump increasingly sounds like a culture relic, detached from not just a protest who`s on the street but also the country`s political middle and even some Republican allies at his own military leaders.
In an interview with FOX News, Harris Faulkner, today, Trump was asked about some of his most incendiary recent comments, including a tweet quoting a notorious former Miami Police Chief named Walter Hadley, whose policies sparked comparisons to Bull Connor, and anti-police riots in the 1960`s.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS FAULKNER, FOX NEWS HOST: When the looting starts, the shooting starts. Why those words?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, that`s an expression I`ve heard over the years.
FAULKNER: Do you know where it comes from?
TRUMP: I think Philadelphia, the mayor of Philadelphia.
FAULKNER: No. It comes from 1967. It was from the chief of police in Miami. He was cracking down and he meant what he said. That frightened a lot of people when you --
TRUMP: It also comes from a very tough mayor who I might have been police commissioner at the time. But I think Mayor of Philadelphia named Frank Rizzo. And he had an expression like that. But I heard it many times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Well, it`s worth noting that, that tough mayor that Trump was praising, Frank Rizzo, once told Philadelphians to, quote, vote white. A statue of him was removed from the plaza facing city hall earlier this month. Mayor Jim Kenney called it a monument to bigotry and racism.
Nearly three weeks after George Floyd`s killing sparked massive protests against racism and three years into my presidency, Trump dug himself in further, claiming that he`s done more for black Americans than any of his 44 predecessors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think I`ve done for more the black community than any other president. And let`s take a pass on Abraham Lincoln because he did good although it`s always questionable. You know, in other words, he --
FAULKNER: We are free, Mr. President. He did pretty well.
TRUMP: But we are free. You understand what I mean. I`m going to take a pass on Honest Abe, as we call --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: OK, all right, Mr. President. I`m game. What exactly is questionable about the outcomes of the president who freed black people from slavery by decree, defeated treason and saved the union? I think Americans would really like to know.
And while Trump today claimed, based on no evidence at all, that he could be America`s consoler in chief, he followed that with another George Wallace style threat. Again, threatening federal action against protests in Seattle, calling demonstrators there an anarchists just like Governor Wallace or Chief Hadley, or Frank Rizzo might have done in the battle days.
For more, I`m joined now by Minnesota Congresswoman, Ilhan Omar, David Jolly, former Republican Congressman, and Mitch Landrieu, former New Orleans Mayor and Founder of E Pluribus Unum, an organization focused on racial equity in the South. I`m going to ask each of you to respond.
First, Congresswoman, to Donald Trump seeming to question the outcome of the civil war.
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): What part of freed slaves was he questioning? I mean, it is truly astonishing to hear the remarks that he made. It`s a reminder, again, that, you know, words have consequences. And there is quoted language that this president and his base use that really is quite dangerous. And it`s really disturbing to hear the interview that he gave today in so many ways.
REID: You know, and I`ll ask both of you, gentlemen, starting with you, David. You know, you`re both from southern states, from former confederate states. What is it about the confederacy that seems to attract this guy from Queens? He has no connection to the confederacy that anyone knows of. I mean, his father allegedly was seen in a Klan rally, in 1927. That was in New York. What do you make of it, starting with you, David?
DAVID JOLLY, MSNBC POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, I think with Donald Trump you can draw threat from his housing discrimination of the `70s to the Central Park Five, to birtherism, to his approach to conversation around race and the confederacy today, and it is fair to ask questions about the president`s view of race. And that ultimately is what is so not just shocking but disconcerting and sad for the nation.
I mean the opportunity right now for leadership is to have a conversation that continues to work the nation towards justice. I know we`re focused on the civil war and monuments and naming of military bases. But the reality is that was a fight over the institution of slavery that was established when we wrote on Constitution. And it took 100 years from the founding to get to a civil war to abolish slavery. But the work wasn`t done.
It took another 100 years to get to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act, and here we are, 60 years after that landmark legislation and we know injustice is still embedded in the United States and in many of our institutions. This is the opportunity for leaders to demonstrate who they are.
Mayor Landrieu said recently that taking down statues is not erasing history. It`s our opportunity to make history. That is true of the activists and the people who make these decisions now. But it`s also true of people like Donald Trump. They are making history now as our Republicans on the Hill by standing in the way of moving justice forward.
REID: You know, Mayor Landrieu, today is the fourth anniversary of the Pulse Nightclub Shooting. Donald Trump could have said something about that today in that interview. In fact, instead, they are removing transgender health protection. That`s what they`re doing with the state.
Today is the 57 anniversary of Medgar Evers slain, killed by Klansmen in his own driveway in Jackson, Mississippi. That`s -- it was trending all day, he could have just check Twitter if he wasn`t aware of the date. That`s something that`s happening that he did not discuss today.
What do you make of the fact that the things he does and chooses to do is to quote racist police chiefs from 1967 and to seem to laud and sort to be obsessed over the confederacy?
FORMER MAYOR MITCH LANDRIEU (D-LA), NEW ORLEANS: Well, those of us that live in the south know what dog whistles sound like and they sound like trains coming down the track. And Donald Trump knows what he`s doing. He`s got people that are working for him that help confect the southern strategy back in 1972.
And it should go without saying that the confederacy was on the wrong side of history. The reason that was fought was to destroy the country, not unify it over the cause of slavery. And it fell into the dustbin of history. You`re watching history pass by the president of the United States, a man whose level of ignorance and arrogance is so broad that it is actually jarring for a country who needs a leader that`s going to unify us.
So he harkens back to it because he, for some reason, has decided that that`s the only way that he`s going to get elected. But he is so wrong because. As you see in this difficult time that we`re in, in these three crisis that are converging onto us that`s being overlaid by the issue of institutional racism, America is beginning to see things that they should have seen before, beginning to understand things more and they are going to say the direction of the country wants to go in and it is not the direction that President Trump continues to insist on taking us in.
REID: I`m going to go back in reverse order. I`m going to stay with you, Mayor Landrieu, for just a moment. You know Eugene Robinson, the great friend of MSNBC, we love him here. He called Donald Trump today in column that he wrote in The Washington Post, the last president of the confederacy. That`s a pretty stark thing for an American president to be called.
But, you know, that comes as Donald Trump is planning to hold a rally in Tulsa. Oklahoma is not a swing state. Like, there`s no question he`s going to win that state. He`s going to go to Tulsa on Juneteenth, which is the holiday is celebrating the belated discovery by many enslaved people that they were actually and have been freed by President Lincoln.
He`s then also going to go to David State and hold his final triumphant acceptance of his nomination on the date that was ax handle Saturday, when another atrocity took place. About 200 white people armed with ax handles and baseball bats, attacked the group of demonstrator that have left to set in, in a whites-only lunch counter in the 1960`s.
When he`s doing things like that, can it be coincidental that he does so much of that?
LANDRIEU: No. It is not coincidental, it is intentional, and it`s purposeful and it shameful. You know, it really is amazing to watch some person that we gave power to, to abuse that power, to pervert what the military is supposed to be used for. to pervert what the bible is supposed to be used for, to turn upside down the issue of race and to turn upside down what this country really is about.
And, unfortunately, he has been called so many times to ask to bring us into unity and not only has he refused, he`s actually going in the opposite direction. I have never seen a political figure in the 30 years that I`ve served who has decided to be this divisive.
And I think, do you know what the American people just have to do is take the power back that we gave him and hand it to somebody that`s going to unify the country, that`s going to bring us together, that`s going to tell us not what we want to hear but what we need to hear so that we can all begin to work together and heal the wounds that are very, very deep that are going to take a lot of work.
REID: You know, David, it feels like we`re discovering what it might have been like if George Wallace had actually won the presidency, except that in the end, George Wallace evolved. Donald Trump doesn`t seem to be in the process of evolving. What is it going to mean for Florida, for Florida, for Donald Trump to come to the state of Florida and except the nomination on the date, on the anniversary date of yet another racist massacre?
JOLLY: Yes. And, Joy, we`re 50 years after George Wallace. I mean, that is the part that`s so disconcerting. And I agree with the mayor. These are not coincidences. This is deliberate. And whether it`s Donald Trump or Stephen Miller whispering in his hear, these are deliberate attempts by the president to play to the race card going into November in an effort to divide us to create a winning electoral strategy for him.
It`s despicable behavior by the president, it should sadden the nation. We know this is a president, and he had said this privately to a colleague of mine that I know, he said, have you ever seen the nation so divided? I love it that way.
Donald Trump operates in a divided nation. But where I think, we have to be very careful, Joy, Donald Trump could break us. He truly could, by dividing us on the issue of race where the wounds are so deep, not just coming off of George Floyd but after 230 years, the wounds remain deep and the work remains ahead of us. If he divides us on the issue of race, he could take us back 100 years and he could break who we are as nation.
As voters, we have a chance to say, no, we`re not going to let you do that. And I do think that`s a question that`s on the ballot in November.
REID: And, Congresswoman, you know, he`s not doing it by himself. Let me play the lieutenant governor of Texas, a guy named Dan Patrick, talking Seattle protesters and making a very gross comparison. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GOV. DAN PATRICK (R-TX): When you take out law enforcement, when you let the mob control your life, this is no different than ISIS taking over cities in the Middle East. These are people with guns threatening people who may or may not agree with them. And this kum ba yah, it is --
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, they are not beheading people and throwing them off buildings.
PATRICK: They`re not beheading people or throwing them off building, but they have taken away their freedom, they`ve taken away their liberty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Yes, go to the Islamophobic card. It`s a card that`s easy to play. But it`s not just him. It`s Tom Cotton saying that, are they going to take down the Washington Monument and make it into the obelisk of wokism, it`s Tucker Carlson shrieking, you know, sneering, they didn`t build it. The people who are protesting, the black and brown people who are in the streets, well, they didn`t build America. Yes, they did. Your thoughts, Congresswoman.
OMAR: It`s also Senator Ted Cruz referring indigenous people who organize themselves to take down the Columbus Statue in the capital of Minnesota and St. Paul as the American Taliban. This is intentional. Their association is intentional and it`s very dangerous. What they`re doing really is no longer dog whistles, right? They`re saying the quiet parts out loud.
And I agree that this is our really our opportunity to reject this kind of malice intention by them that`s clearly inciting violence against different groups of people here in our country. They`re very intent on dividing us and stirring up hate and division in our country.
We do have an opportunity in the next few months to decide where we want to go and how we unify our country by making sure these people are no longer in positions of power to influence the kind of policies that we want implemented.
It`s really quite tragic, you know, Joy. You and I talk about often as myself being an immigrant. You know, many of -- the history I know of this country have learned in the schools, even thought I started in sixth grade. You would assume majority of these people who are hell bent on idealizing and revisiting really tragic parts of our history are quite aware of it. You know, that there is -- we can no longer say there is ignorance.
We can no longer say the president and his Co. are not aware of what they`re doing and what they`re saying. These are people who are choosing to go down a road that is really quite dangerous for all of us and dangerous for the kind of country we want to build. And now, it`s our opportunity to reject.
I remember the night president Trump won. I said I can`t have -- I can`t imagine how he found a partner in so many hearts of Americans to have won his election.
And now, we should ask those people to dig deep in their heart and ask themselves again, is this the president that they wanted, is this the person that they want dictating what kind of country we are to ourselves and to the world and is this the kind of history we want written about our country decades after we have come through and reformed for the better.
REID: Yes. And we are out of time. But I`m going to give a final question to Mitch Landrieu. Is that even possible? Is that a conversation that`s even -- that you can have with people who are supporting this, supporting this attitude toward our history and toward their own fellow Americans?
LANDRIEU: Well, it might not be possible with everybody but it is certainly possible with a majority of Americans. There`s great hope in the protesters and the diversity of the young people that are actually out in the streets exercising their First Amendment right, being great patriots and calling their country into communion around a simple notion, we are all created equal. We are all should have opportunity and responsibility. One of us should not be supreme over the other. And, yes, we are a nation that values diversity and we are a nation of immigrants.
If you believe in that, then you have to go -- you have to turn Donald Trump out, not just to turn him out, but his vision of the world, as we have said from the beginning, that is laid on top of what George Wallace saw, laid on top of what the confederate saw. That is an idea that needs to go into the dust bin of history so that America can become the country that she has always promised herself that she would be.
And I am very hopeful that we can get there. But it`s just going to be hard but it`s worth the fight, clearly.
REID: Yes, it won`t go quietly into the dust bin clearly.
LANDRIEU: No, it will not.
REID: I hope that you`re successful. I hope you`re successful, E Pluribus Unum, that`s a lovely name. It`s a wonderful name for an organization. I wish you very much luck.
LANDRIEU: Thank you. Joy.
REID: Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, it`s always wonderful talking with you, and, David Jolly, my friend, thank you so much, Mitch Landrieu, always a pleasure. You all have a great weekend.
And coming up remember when Donald Trump promised to tough background checks after yet another gun massacre in the United States and then did nothing? This time on police reform, he`s once again pretending to take action but really doing nothing.
Plus, Michael Moore predicted that Trump would win four years ago. Where does he see this election going this year? I`ll ask him.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We`re working to finalize an executive order that will encourage police departments nationwide to meet the most current professional standards of force, and that means force, but force with compassion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Uh-huh.
Welcome back.
In the 18 days since George Floyd was brutally killed by a police officer while three others looked on, Donald Trump has only been able to bring himself to encourage police departments to enact changes.
And he`s made it clear that he doesn`t think there is some systemic racism among the police, just a few -- quote -- "bad apples."
And as we wait for the president and Congress to act, cities and states have begun stepping up to enact changes themselves locally. In Louisville, Kentucky, the City Council voted unanimously to ban no-knock warrants, like the one that cost Breonna Taylor her life.
Several governors are working toward or have already banned police choke holds.
And for more, I`m joined by MSNBC correspondent Trymaine Lee, also host of the "Into America" podcast, and Christy Lopez, professor at Georgetown Law School.
Thank you both for being here.
Trymaine, Donald Trump seems to not even think that the people who are in those protests know why they`re there. I`m going to play a quick sound bite from him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAULKNER: What do you think they want? What do you think they need right now from you?
TRUMP: So, I think you had protesters for different reasons.
And then you had protesting also because, you know, they just didn`t know. I have watched. I watched it very closely. Why are you here? And they really weren`t able to say. But they were there for a reason, perhaps.
But a lot of them really were there because they are following the crowd. A lot of them, they were there because what we witnessed was a terrible thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Trymaine Lee, does that -- does that make any sense to you at all?
(LAUGHTER)
TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: You know, I hate to laugh about something so serious, but hundreds of thousands of people all across the country just kind of meander in to hours and hours of protest.
But it`s kind of par for the course when you think about this president, whether it`s willful ignorance or something more sinister in terms of his world view.
But as people are in pain and people are hurting, and people have been yelling and shouting, calling for reform, crying over the bodies of dead black people who`ve been killed by the hands of police, and still this president, like many other people, though, see it as bad apples, rather than something really systemic.
And as long as it`s just a couple bad apples, and not the orchard, then you can kind of defer some of that responsibility. I heard something once, Joy, that said, if you have a lake and two fish die, there`s something wrong with the fish. If you have a lake and 50,000 fish died, there`s something wrong with the lake, right?
And, clearly, when you think about policing in America, and so many, so many bad outcomes, there`s something wrong with the lake.
REID: Yes, that seems fairly clear, that all the new laws being enacted seem to indicate that.
And, Christy, great to meet you. Great to talk with you.
The sort of -- in my e-mails, I will just say, just limited to my e-mails, there`s been a lot of angst over the term defund the police, over the hashtag #defundthepolice, over that being the rallying cry of so many activists.
I think there`s a lot of confusion over what it means. And speaking of confusion, here`s here`s Donald Trump discussing it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It started about a week ago, where I heard they want to close up all police forces.
It`s not like they want to sort of bring a little money into something else. They want it actually closed. I`m thinking, what happens late at night when you make that call to 911 and there`s nobody there? What do you have? What do you do?
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Whether you`re white, black or anybody else, I mean, what do you do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Christy, does anybody -- is anybody out there saying close all the police forces down? I mean, that seems like a rhetorical question, but feel free to answer it however you like.
CHRISTY LOPEZ, GEORGETOWN LAW SCHOOL: No one is saying that there`s -- a we should have a world where no one answer when we call for help.
I know the word is scaring some people. But the ideas are very sensible. And they`re completely in line with what police officers have been telling me for decades, which is that we`re asking law enforcement to do too much.
And we need to recognize that and shift some of those responsibilities to people who can better serve needs, like mental health care, and serve homelessness and deal with drug addiction. That`s all people are saying.
And I wish we had leadership that, instead of leaping on one word, no matter -- ill-chosen or otherwise, it`s one word. But the ideas are sensible. And we have an opportunity now to work together to achieve those goals.
And I hope we don`t squander that opportunity and instead devolve to fear- mongering, which is what some of our leaders seem to want us to do.
REID: Trymaine, Rachel Maddow says lots of things that are brilliant.
And one of the things she says all the time is, when you`re talking about politicians, don`t listen to what they say so much as watch what they do. And whatever people feel about hashtag #defundthepolice, what`s actually happening is, police budgets are being cut. A lot of responsibilities are being shifted away from them.
There are contracts being relooked at, because, at the end of the day, as I think Nicolle might have said this earlier today, people are -- taxpayers are not going to pay for a police force that endangers them, right?
So is this -- are we having the wrong argument when we`re talking about the hashtag?
LEE: Well, certainly, we`re having the wrong argument, the wrong discussion.
When you think about cities across the country who are cutting their budgets, housing, parks and rec, summer job programs, oftentimes, the one budget that grows is the police.
On this week on "Into America," my podcast, we took -- we looked at L.A., right? So while they were planning on increasing the budget, they took away $150 million and decided to redirect that funding to communities of color especially.
And so, while it is a big, scary term, and abolish the police, the people I talk to say, you know what, we should be living in a world where people aren`t robbing and stealing for food, while, when people have emotional breakdowns or psychotic episodes, they actually get the resources that they need, not a man or woman arriving with a gun, right?
And so part of the discussion around defunding the police is big and scary. And we know it`s an election year. And so, clearly, the law and order president who was calling for folks to dominate the streets and send the troops in, right, a way of this kind of war footing that he`s put the police and National Guard, et cetera, on, does a big disservice to the movement that says, we should live in a society where children`s bellies are full, and folks have what they need, so they wouldn`t have to resort to crime and wouldn`t have to resort to calling men and women with guns to respond.
REID: Yes, absolutely, and where mayors could have the flexibility to spend money on those other things, instead of always just on police being able to buy tanks.
Trymaine Lee, whose typewriter game is on point -- I have those -- old- timey typewriter, too. I endorse that very, very much.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Christy Lopez, thank you so much. Thank you to you both.
And still ahead, filmmaker Michael Moore, who predicted the outcome of the last election, joins us to talk about where this election is heading.
Stick around. He joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 2016)
MICHAEL MOORE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: And I have say, I`m -- I`m -- I`m sorry to have to kind of be the buzzkill here so early on, but I think Trump is going to win.
(BOOING)
MOORE: I am sorry. I live in Michigan.
Let me tell you, let me tell you what he`s -- he`s going to -- it`s going to be the Brexit strategy. The middle of England is Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. And Mitt Romney lost by 64 electoral votes.
The total electoral votes of those four states in the Rust Belt, 64.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: OK, I`m having a flashback.
Welcome back.
That was filmmaker Michael Moore in 2016 making what at the time was a shocking prediction, that Donald Trump would win the election, which, of course, he did.
One of the ways that Trump went about it was by winning all of those Rust Belt states that Moore mentioned.
And I`m joined now by Michael Moore, executive producer of "Planet of the Humans" and host of "Rumble With Michael Moore."
And you couldn`t see me in that shot, Michael, but I was sitting next to you when you said that. I was sitting between you and Bill Maher and was horrified. The moment struck me so much, it gave me so many nightmares. I put it in my book. I recount it. And Tony Schwartz was on the other side of you.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: So, that means you now have to tell us -- go on.
MOORE: Yes.
I`m sorry. I didn`t -- I didn`t know they were going to run that clip, because I remember you were there on the stage. And I thought, oh, this is going to trigger awful things in Joy right now.
(LAUGHTER)
MOORE: But, you know, just breathe.
(LAUGHTER)
MOORE: And we`re going to be OK. We should be OK.
REID: Well, I will breathe -- I will breathe -- I will breathe after you tell me who`s going to win the election in 2020, because what`s happening is...
MOORE: Oh.
REID: ... the polling averages -- I`m going to look at the polling averages right now for the states that you called, three of them...
MOORE: Yes. Oh, yes. Yes.
REID: ... Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. In 2016, Trump won them by 0.2 in Michigan, barely, 0.7 in Pennsylvania, barely, 0.8 in Wisconsin.
The polling averages now have Biden ahead 7.6 point, 0.1, still very close in Pennsylvania, 6.2. in Wisconsin.
Do you foresee a different outcome, oh, oracle Michael Moore, in November?
(LAUGHTER)
MOORE: Earlier today, Nicolle Wallace had Governor Cuomo on. And she was just asking about September with her kids.
REID: Yes.
MOORE: Like, is there going to be school?
REID: Yes.
MOORE: And he said, my crystal ball was only good for 30 days.
And I thought for sure he was going to add -- well, he said he got a cheap one. I think he was implying he was down on Canal Street somewhere at one of those stores.
But, no, look, I`m not Cassandra. I don`t know. What I -- here`s what I know or what I think I know. Never take Trump for granted. If anybody is sitting at home right now thinking, oh, man, we have got this one in the bag, whoa. Did you hear him today?
REID: Yes.
MOORE: He said he`s done more for black people than Abraham Lincoln. Whoa! We`re going to win.
REID: Yes.
MOORE: No. No.
REID: Yes.
MOORE: I`m telling you, I`m warning you, and I`m begging you, please, do not sell this man short.
REID: Yes.
MOORE: He has pulled off so many things so many times.
If you`re a New Yorker, you watched it for 40 years, and failed to warn the rest of us, by the way.
REID: Yes.
MOORE: But if you...
(CROSSTALK)
REID: Yes.
MOORE: ... don`t understand this about him, if we are -- how long did we think, oh, yes, just wait? The Mueller report. Every -- how many times over these last three years, just wait. Oh, that`s going to do him in.
With Billy Bush on the bus a month or so before the election, it`s like, oh, that`s the end of Trump.
How about this? Put this in your head and don`t let it leave your head until November 3.
REID: Yes.
MOORE: There is no end to Trump, because Trump doesn`t think there`s any end to Trump.
REID: Yes.
MOORE: And that`s what everybody has to be very careful about.
So here`s what I think. I think Hillary won the popular vote by three million votes. I think -- honest to God, I think Joe Biden will win the popular vote by five million, maybe -- maybe seven million. I think it`ll be a huge popular vote victory for the Democrat.
But that does not mean that we`re going to win the electoral states that we need to win.
REID: Well, and -- well, and that`s the key, right, is that the Electoral College doesn`t care about the popular vote, right?
MOORE: No.
REID: The -- it`s just a suggestion. The property vote is just a suggestion. The Electoral College is how you win.
Now, in the Rust Belt states, the theory of the case for Biden and the reason a lot of people like Jason Johnson predicted Biden would be the nominee is that, unlike Hillary, he`s not a woman.
I remember, during that same show with Bill Maher, you said, there are these white-collar -- blue-collar guys out there, these cops and plumbers, and they`re blue-collar, they`re not broke, but they`re blue-collar, and they say, oh, great, we had the black president, then we`re going to have the gay president, then we`re going to have the woman president, then we`re going to have the Latino president.
It`s going to be every single person except the white guy, and that that`s their attitude. And it`s not about money. It`s not about economics. It`s about culture running away from them.
And that`s that -- you said that so beautifully back then, so brilliantly.
So now what you have is Donald Trump really boosting those same people to the maximum.
MOORE: Yes.
REID: So -- but he`s facing a regular guy. He`s facing a literal regular Joe. Joe Biden is the regular Joe that a lot of those guys are.
Does that break the circuit on what he`s able to do? Can Joe Biden do a little bit better with that working-class white voter?
MOORE: Maybe. I don`t know.
(LAUGHTER)
MOORE: I mean, because what -- the way you just set that up, you have said it exactly -- it`s exactly correctly.
It`s, white men, a lot of white men -- two-thirds of white men voted for Trump -- feel that their grip on power is quickly fading, is being taken from them. They have been watching what`s been going on in the last couple of weeks. They`re just as angry at that cop in Minneapolis, because he`s really -- he`s really messed it up for the white male holding onto that power.
And I think white men, and their fear of this, this is why -- you notice how Trump`s base really never changes, that percentage that`s going to vote for him.
REID: Yes.
MOORE: It`s 40. It`s 41. On a good day, it`s 43 or 44. But it always stays within the margin of error.
And that`s because it doesn`t matter what Trump does. They are going to show up. And they`re counting on their rage and their emotion is so much stronger.
REID: Yes.
MOORE: They have the courage of their convictions. They believe.
REID: Yes. Yes. But...
MOORE: And they`re counting on us not showing up in that same way.
REID: Yes, that`s the key.
I wish we had time. But I have no more time. But that is the exact point. They`re counting on the other side not showing up in the same numbers.
MOORE: Oh, shoot, because I want to just say this.
REID: Michael Moore, we will have to have you back.
Quickly. Quickly.
MOORE: That`s it?
REID: Quickly.
MOORE: Quickly.
REID: Quickly. Quickly.
MOORE: It`s incumbent upon Joe Biden -- Joe Biden has to make sure that he doesn`t just pick a vice president that`s a mirror image of himself that has the same politics.
REID: Yes. That`s right.
MOORE: He`s got to bring young people and the left out.
They will stay home. I will be there. I`m voting. But I`m telling you...
REID: Give us a name. Give us a name. Give us a name. Who should he pick? Give us a name. Who should he pick?
MOORE: Michelle Alexander. She wrote "The New Jim Crow."
REID: OK. Now I...
(CROSSTALK)
REID: You got to come back. You got to come back. You got to come back. You got to get deeper into that.
MOORE: Yes. Yes. This was -- this was -- I have...
REID: Michael Moore, thank you very much. We will bring you back.
MOORE: I have more words.
REID: OK, he`s got more words. He`s going to come back and do it again.
Up next -- thank you very much, Michael. Have a great weekend.
And up next, several states -- I`m getting the -- I`m getting the ding, ding, ding, time to go.
States are reassessing their reopening plans, after a spike in coronavirus cases.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: Welcome back.
More than 25 states are now reporting troubling spikes in coronavirus cases. Many of them were among the first to reopen their economies. Today, Arizona reported the most new cases in a single day, while Florida announced nearly 2,000 new infections in one day.
In Texas, more people are in the hospital due to COVID-19 this week than at any time since the pandemic started. A Houston County official warned that the city may be approaching the precipice of a disaster and that they were getting closer to reimposing stay-at-home orders.
According to a projection by the CDC, the U.S. could suffer 130,000 coronavirus deaths by July 4. Despite all of that,
Larry Kudlow, the president`s economic adviser, is shrugging off concerns over these emerging hot spots and the threat of a second wave.
Stay tuned to hear more about that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: Welcome back.
Well, Donald Trump and his administration are eager to turn the page on the coronavirus pandemic. Desperate to return to his safe space, Trump is planning large rallies in states where coronavirus cases are on the uptick, like Florida, Texas and Arizona.
White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow, who happens not to hold a medical degree or any relevant expertise, shrugged off any lingering concerns about the outbreak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KUDLOW, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Look, I`m not the health expert. But on the so-called spike, I spoke to our health experts at some length last evening. They`re saying there is no second spike. Let me repeat that. There is no second spike.
This hurricane, this bad snowstorm, this terrible pandemic virus, is going to go away, and we will be OK. I mean, people have to keep their chins up, I think.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Huh.
Well, that`s the same Larry Kudlow who said the coronavirus had been contained in February.
For more, I`m joined by California Congresswoman Maxine Waters.
Congresswoman, it`s always great to speak with you.
And I haven`t gotten the chance to wish you condolences over the loss of your sister Velma to COVID-19. So, I want to give you those condolences from myself and the team here.
But what do you make of this rush by the president and his administration to basically pretend coronavirus just no longer exists, including we`re hearing stories about increased threat to nursing homes, not enough protective gear, increased cases?
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): Yes.
Well, this president from the very beginning delayed responding to the information that was coming in about this pandemic. And he`s been in denial.
But you know what`s interesting is, he`s planning a big rally, a big political rally, and he has put together a disclaimer statement for people to sign that will relieve him of any liability if, in fact, because of their presence, they become infected with the COVID-19 virus.
And so, on the one hand, he`s claiming it`s going to go away, that we`re progressing, that we don`t need to worry. But, on the other hand, he is asking people to relieve him of any liability.
This is outrageous that this president speaks this way and acts this way. And I`m particularly concerned about these nursing homes. Forty percent of all of the deaths from COVID-19 are nursing home victims.
And so this administration have failed to get the supplies to these nursing homes that they need. And even when some of the supplies have come, they have been defective. And they`re still waiting, waiting for masks, waiting for gowns, waiting for protective equipment.
And so not only are the patients dying. The staffs are dying. Right here in California, they had to send out the National Guard to five of our nursing homes, where the National Guards and their special medical teams have to take care of the patients.
Right here in South Los Angeles, in Gardena, 23 staff members were infected, 36 patients, and eight people died. And it was one of the five nursing homes that the medical staff visited from the National Guard in order to help them, because they had no more staff left.
And it is a real scandal. And it`s a shame what`s happening in our nursing homes.
And FEMA, basically, it`s being run, this aspect of it being run by Jared Kushner, who the president sent over there, promises to send out equipment that never comes, sends out, again, defective equipment.
And I just don`t know what`s going to happen, except the number of deaths in these nursing homes will continue to spiral and continue to increase. And so we`re trying to do something about it.
REID: Yes.
WATERS: And, as you know, it was our select committee that held this briefing on this crisis.
REID: Yes.
WATERS: And we have a bill that`s being placed on an operation by Jan Schakowsky that we have all signed on.
But I want to tell you, the numbers are increasing.
REID: Yes.
And does it -- it`s rather pointed that one of the rallies he`s choosing to do is in Tulsa, Oklahoma, a state that is not in contention. He doesn`t need to sway votes there. He`s going to win that state, and that he`s doing it on Juneteenth.
It`s a pointed decision. What do you make of it?
WATERS: Well, you know, he`s such a dishonorable man.
And when he has an opportunity to basically undermine or harm or pay somebody back, he does it. And he`s not ashamed of that. And this has been his M.O. ever since he`s been elected.
So, you know Juneteenth is June 19.
REID: Yes.
WATERS: It is a day that we celebrate, because that`s the time that we actually got the message, the information that the slaves had been freed.
And so it`s a jab at us.
REID: Yes. Yes.
WATERS: It`s like the president who has talked about our districts, called them rat holes, talked about the shitholes in terms of black countries, et cetera.
This is another way to poke fun at us and to dishonor what we care about.
REID: Yes. Yes. Indeed. And he doesn`t seem to want to stop.
Congresswoman Maxine Waters, have a wonderful weekend. Thank you so much for your time this evening. Really appreciate it.
WATERS: Well, you`re so welcome. And thank you.
REID: And for those of you out there...
(CROSSTALK)
WATERS: ... pay any attention to this nursing problem. It`s extraordinarily important.
Thank you so very much.
REID: Thank you so much, Congresswoman. I appreciate that. Thank you.
And I want to give a quick programming note to all of you. On Sunday at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, I will be hosting a special with Bishop William Barber called "American Crisis: Poverty and the Pandemic." You do not want to miss it.
And up next, the King, LeBron James, wants to make sure everyone can vote this November.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: One of the seminal facts about the Trump era is that, while becoming president has allowed Donald Trump minor celebrity, to wield what in his mind is unlimited power, he has not been able to command the culture, no matter how desperately he`s wanted to.
Where President Barack Obama and Michelle Obama were surrounded and uplifted by cultural icons, Hollywood, musical legends, like Aretha Franklin, fashion icons, Oprah, and sports legends, who all wanted to be in the White House where the first black president was, Trump and his brood have had to make do with the third tier of the celebrity world.
And now the culture is coming for his reelect. The King, LeBron James, of the L.A. Lakers announced that, along with several other entertainment stars and prominent athletes, he`s forming a new political action group aimed at protecting African-Americans` voting rights and encouraging them to turn out to vote.
More Than a Vote will focus on voter registration and making sure black voters can safely cast a ballot in November. Also on board, comedian and movie star Kevin Hart, basketball stars like -- like Trae Young, Skylar Diggins-Smith, Jalen Rose, Draymond Green, and Udonis Haslem, plus NFL running back Alvin Kamara. And they`re now recruiting prominent stars from the music world too.
In other words, popular culture, which had already said, no, no, no thank you to Donald Trump and his movement, are now massing to protect the very voters he has written off as not capable of voted without fraud, as not worthy of protection from COVID-19, as not worth even talking to, unless they`re willing to be his sycophants, and as having lives that don`t matter, if any cop anywhere decides they don`t.
The irony, of course, is that, before he jumped into politics, Donald Trump was part of the culture, which apparently hadn`t yet figured out who he is. But he traded all of that for power, with a little Russian help.
So, Mr. President, good luck with your reelection. You won`t just be facing Joe Biden and his running mate in November. You will be squaring off against the culture, which refuses to just shut up and dribble or shut up and sing, and enjoys a long history of protest, standing up for what is right, in other words, the American culture.
And it`s defeated much tougher men than you.
Thanks so much for being with us.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" is up next.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END