protests in Minneapolis TRANSCRIPT: 5/29/20, MSNBC Live

Guests: Andrea Jenkins, Loretta Lynch, Kamala Harris, Cynthia Alksne

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AYMAN MOHYELDIN, MSNBC HOST: Thanks for watching, that does it for me. Joy Reid is next right here on MSNBC.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Good evening. I`m Joy Reid.

Well, this is this is the scene tonight in Minneapolis where pain and outrage over the death of George Floyd in police custody was answered today, at least partially. Derek Chauvin, the fired Minneapolis police officer seen here pinning Floyd by his neck was arrested and charged with third degree murder and manslaughter.

Chauvin is one of four officers fired because of their involvement in Floyd`s death while in custody, but the only one who`s been charged so far. The criminal complaint from the state alleges, quote, the defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd`s neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds in total, two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive. Police are trained that this type of restraint with the subject in a proned position is inherently dangerous.

Announcing the charges today, Hennepin County`s top prosecutor, Mike Freeman, said that despite more than one video of what officers did to George Floyd, he didn`t have enough evidence to charge Chauvin until today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FREEMAN, HENNEPIN COUNTRY ATTORNEY: We are in the process of continuing to review the evidence. There may be subsequent charges later.

The investigation is ongoing. We felt it appropriate to focus on the most dangerous perpetrator.

We can only charge a case when we have sufficient admissible evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. As of right now we have that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: In a statement, the family of George Floyd, a 46-year-old father of two, welcomed a step on the road to justice but added, we expected a first- degree murder charge. We want first-degree murder charge. And we want to see the other officers arrested. We call on authorities to revise the charges to reflect the true culpability of this officer.

The decision to charge Chauvin follows the emergence of new video of the deadly incident. That video taken from the opposite side of the street appears to show three of the officers pinning Floyd down. It follows another night that began with peaceful protests in Minneapolis but boiled over with multiple fires breaking out, one at a Minneapolis Police precinct.

And, of course, Donald Trump was fanning the flames, as he always does in the usual way, with a tweet. And we`ll have much more on that later.

Anger over Floyd`s death and the deaths of other black men and women at the hands of police and civilians has sparked night of protests across the country over the past 48 hours. Tonight, the mayor of Minneapolis announced a curfew which takes effect two hours from now.

And I`m joined now by MSNBC`s Ali Velshi who`s on the ground in Minneapolis.

All right, give me, Ali, of the reaction to the charges against Officer Chauvin.

ALI VELSHI, MSNBC HOST: Joy, there are a number of things going on. One is that people are wondering about this third-degree charge. They`re wondering about the three other officers. They`re also wondering about the absence of the video, a perp walk of Chauvin being arrested, because the images that a lot of this protesters have seen have been of the Minneapolis police standing guard outside of Chauvin`s house in the first few days.

So the frustration is boiling over here. As you can see this is a demonstration. We`re about three blocks away from the police precinct, but the police line has moved back here. They`ve got these jersey barriers, and you see this line of state patrolmen supported by National Guard officers. No Minneapolis police here at the moment.

But we are, as you said, two hours away from the imposition of those curfew and it remains to be seen what happens to the crowds like this around the city at 8:00 P.M. our time, 9:00 P.M. your time, when they`re supposed to disappear.

Will they just dissipate, will the police make arrest? It was not seen in the last 24 hours. They`ve made a distinct effort to not engage with the protesters. In fact, 24 hours ago, Joy, there were no police, no firefighters, no National Guardsmen around here at all. That has changed. There`s now a heavy law enforcement presence here right now. But we don`t know what happens to the next two hours.

The crowds are building, the tension is mounting. And as you may be able to see along this line, there are several people going off and confronting the state troopers. That`s the kind of thing that`s happening right now. Tensions are high and we are waiting for a couple of hours.

This crowd here is much, much smaller than it was yesterday. It`s also not centered around something like it was when we were three blocks from here yesterday at the police precincts. So we don`t know what`s happening, we don`t know what`s happening in the next couple of hours. This has been a completely peaceful protest. All the fires in the neighborhood are out but the tensions are running high, Joy.

REID: Yes, absolutely. And one more question for you, Ali. You know, we don`t want to center ourselves as journalists, but one of the unusual things that we saw happened, during all of this process of protest is the arrest of a journalist, a CNN reporter named, Oscar Jimenez, was arrested live on T.V. I`m going to play that really quickly. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSCAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is among the state patrol unit that was advancing up the street, seeing and scattering the protesters to that point, for people to clear the area. And so we walked away -- I`m sorry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re under arrest.

JIMENEZ: Okay, do you mind telling me why I`m under arrest, sir? Why am I under arrest, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers, we`re with CNN. He`s on the air right now. You`re arresting me live on CNN. We told you before that we are with CNN.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`re just tuning in you are watching our correspondent, Omar Jimenez, being arrested by state police in Minnesota.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And Mr. Jimenez has been since released. And, Ali, as somebody who observes news around the world, this is not an ordinary thing that we see in the United States, to have journalists arrested. Has there been particular tension between reporters and the police specifically directed at reporters?

VELSHI: No, because, keep in mind, the police have disappeared from the scene for a while, right? In those places, police and journalists weren`t in the same place.

This morning, Mr. Jimenez was at a police line like this. No explanation as to why it happened. The governor has apologized for tonight with the curfew that was (INAUDIBLE) going around that journalists will not be excluded from this. And if they`re out on the street, they`ll be arrested. We subsequently clarified that journalists are not going to be arrested for being out here beyond the curfew if we need to interact or we need to record interactions between law enforcement and the military and protesters. So that First Amendment right has been protected.

But very, very strange and unnerving in America in 2020 to see the arrest of a reporter who is doing absolutely nothing except covering the news and protected by the First Amendment. And it was an unusual situation, quickly remedied, thankfully, Joy.

REID: Yes, very interesting. Covering it from a network that the president normally doesn`t like, but it was very odd. Ali Velshi, thank you so much, I really appreciate you`re reporting, you`re doing a great job, thank you.

And joining me now is Andrea Jenkins, Vice President of the Minneapolis City Council. I want to ask you the same question. If we`re at the point where journalists are being arrested, that means that the public is not being allowed to know what`s going on. What is your comment about that arrest?

ANDREA JENKINS, VICE PRESIDENT, MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCIL: Well, hi, Joy. How are you? Thanks for having me on your show tonight. That arrest was really interesting because just moments prior to Mr. Jimenez being arrested, they spoke with a white journalist from CNN (INAUDIBLE), they let him go on about his business and then they encountered Mr. Jimenez and he was arrested.

And so I think that arrest -- I don`t think it`s about journalists at all. I think it`s all about race. And you might be aware, Joy, that, you know, I have called for a resolution declaring racism as a public health issue, a public health crisis.

And that`s what I think about that arrest this morning. I thought it was so ironic that it happened on the air. It really symbolizes the very thing that people are marching all around the country about, the unfair policing with black people.

REID: Yes. And let me ask you about the arrest of Derek Chauvin. And just you before I give you the chance to respond to his arrest and being charged with third-degree murder, this is just a piece of his background. He was the subject of at least a dozen police conduct complaints. In 2006, he was one of six police officers who shot 40-plus rounds of bullets at Wayne Reyes after police saw Reyes stab his girlfriend and a friend. In 2008, Chauvin, shot Ira Latrell Toles, an unarmed black 21-year-old man who Chauvin says grabbed for his weapon. The restraint technique that Chauvin used on Mr. Floyd was not a part of Minneapolis police training. He`s represented by Tom Kelly, who happens to be the same man -- lawyer who got the officer who shot Philando Castile in 2016 acquitted.

What do you make of the fact that after of all that, he was still on the force and what do you make of his arrest? And we should note his arrest was subsequent, to the arrest of the journalist, but your thoughts.

JENKINS: Yes. You know, I think police unions all around the country have so much power and certainly as the contracts and, you know, lawmakers like myself have a role in negotiating those contracts. However, no -- there`s nobody that can keep their job after 18 charges of misconduct and, you know, costing your employer thousands and thousands of dollars in lawsuits. Only the union can really create a scenario where an officer like that can keep his job.

And let me be very clear. I am very pro-labor. I am a card-carrying union member. Right now, my card is updated for 2020. I`m a member of the SCIU. So I am not bashing workers. I support labor unions. But the contracts with police and jurisdictions all around this country give way too much authority to police officers. If they get fired, you know, these officers can go to another community and get rehired. Many times, they get rehired in the same police force that they were fired from.

REID: Yes, indeed. That is very much true. Councilwoman Andrea Jenkins, thank you very much. I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you and be safe.

And joining me is Loretta Lynch, who served as U.S. Attorney General under President Barack Obama. And I`ll ask you the same question. The idea that a police officer could have that much of a jacket, essentially, that many misconduct complaints, including using his weapon in that way and still be a practicing police officer, what do you make of that?

LORETTA LYNCH, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, thank you, Joy, and thank you for focusing on this important issue. You raise a really important issue in the context of the history of this police officer and possibly the other officers who were with him. We have now seen an arrest in this case. We`ve seen the horrific video several times over of Mr. Floyd literally losing his life. That image will never be erased either from us or from his family. We have to think about that.

But this issue and the reason why you see so much anger, so much frustration is because it`s really about more than just this one case. It is about how we police in America. Whom do we allow to police in America? How do we let them regulate citizens in America? How do we let police use the incredible power that they have, which, yes, can be used for good, but for so many people in this country is often a negative force against them, a force literally on their neck.

So the issue of this officer`s history is highly relevant. You have to look at what kind of training this officer received. The main question that I have throughout all of this is why does a uniformed police officer think that it`s appropriate, not just for him to take this action, but that he can do it in front of other officers. Most of the time, you find a situation where officers know they can do it because they`ve gotten away with things before. That speaks to police culture. It speaks to police training and it speaks to police leadership.

REID: And, you know, the other thing I think of it, people -- when they look at it, I think, to the point that you made is that officers feel confident because it`s so rare to have police officers charged with a crime like the one that Mr. Chauvin is charged with. I want to let you listen to the Hennepin County Attorney, that was Mike Freeman. And here, he is talking about the timeline and how much time it took to charge Officer Chauvin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: This is by far the fastest we`ve ever charged a police officer, okay? Normally, these cases can takes nine months to a year. We have to charge his cases very carefully because we have a difficult burden of proof.

We entrust our police officers to use certain amounts of force to do their job to protect us. They commit a criminal act if they use this force unreasonably, unreasonable, that had great cooperation from the FBI and from United States Attorney Erica MacDonald.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: You know, I think the challenge that, you know, the ordinary person has with that idea is that if a civilian did this to another civilian, there wouldn`t be a need to complacently prove the entire case before a charged was made. Is that fair, that police officer, essentially prosecutors -- at least what this prosecutor was saying -- was he had to essentially have the case already approved before he would even lay the charged?

LYNCH: Yes. And this prosecutor is absolutely correct. This case has moved incredibly quickly. One reason I believe is because the officers were fired. If they were still employed, they likely would have the union rights, as was alluded to by your prior guests, that would allow them to delay being questioned and the delay the investigation through the exercise of their union rights. And that often is a tremendous barrier to investigating police misconduct. So that may, in fact, have the influenced to their ability to actually move much more quickly.

But I think that that`s what you`re also seeing is this anger from the average citizen who says that, look, in this exact case, Mr. Floyd allegedly passed a bad $20 bill and he was arrested right away. We watched Mr. Floyd lose his life and no one was arrested right away. And those are questions that law enforcement has to answer.

Now, there are answers for it in some circumstances, but when you have a situation where there`s so little trust and so little dependence on the word of government, when government in particular through its law enforcement is seen as the perpetrator of the incredible wrong here, you really do have to move much more quickly, as they did in this case.

REID: Well, and let me ask you this question, because I know under Attorney General Eric Holder and also under yourself serving in the Obama administration, there were pattern and practice investigations implemented against police forces in which there were crimes that were of this magnitude or incidents that produced this kind of a reaction. Would you recommend that the current attorney general implement a pattern and practice investigation of this county?

LYNCH: Well, certainly. I think you have -- you certainly have the indicia that I have seen in several similar circumstances were we did open an investigation into the police department. Because as I noted before, the issue beyond just this case, the tragic loss of life that we all saw was why do police officers feel that they can behave in this way with impunity?

There`s also the concern that I have which is that very few people start out their career placing their knee on someone`s neck. So you have to look at the culture. You have to look at the training, and that is exactly what a pattern and practice investigation does.

We also look at the history of this particular police department that, in fact, in the beginning of the Obama administration, reached out to the Department of Justice and sought assistance in terms of use of force issues and policing issues early on. But then as we saw frankly just a few years ago with the tragic death of Philando Castile and others failed to truly implement many of the reforms that were recommended.

This has to be an ongoing review and it has to be an ongoing process. So, certainly, a pattern and practice investigation would give law enforcement the ability to look at the entire department and see how they handle these important issues.

REID: And we are out of time, but, very quickly, would you trust this Department of Justice to do such an investigation under William Barr, under his DOJ?

LYNCH: Well, I have to say that I think that I certainly hope that the department remains involved in a way that provides people accountability and transparency. I also know that the local U.S. attorney will be very, very much involved as well. But I also think it`s incumbent upon all of us, as citizens, to hold our government`s feet to the fire in this investigation and so many others.

People now have been down this road before. People have been through investigations before and need to hold this Department of Justice accountable for handling this in a way that provides accountability and transparency and justice.

REID: Former Attorney General Loretta Lynch, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here tonight.

LYNCH: Thank you, Joy.

REID: And coming up, Donald Trump`s feeble attempt -- thank you so much -- Donald Trump`s feeble attempt to walk back part of his inflammatory tweet last night that threatened violence against alleged looters.

Senator Kamala Harris joins me next to talk about it. We`ll also get her reaction as a former prosecutor to today`s arrest and charges in Minneapolis against one of the officers involved in the killing of George Floyd.

Stay right there. We`ve got much more to get to after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: Welcome back.

Donald Trump is being widely condemned after his highly inflammatory, ugly tweets overnight added fuel to the fire raging in Minneapolis.

Trump not only referred to the demonstrators marching to protest the police killing of George Floyd as thugs. He also appeared to call for the use of deadly force on the streets of Minneapolis, saying: "When the looting starts, the shooting starts."

Now, there is historical context to that phrase. It traces back to the 20- year former Miami police chief whose policies sparked race riots in the 1960s. Chief Walter Headley, likened by newspapers at the time to Birmingham Sheriff Bill (sic) Connor, unabashedly promoted the use of deadly force, amid the civil unrest of -- unrest over 50 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALTER HEADLEY, MIAMI POLICE CHIEF: I have standing orders here: When the looting starts, the shooting starts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Trump is now using those exact words in the face of these deepening racial tensions today.

Trump`s tweet was so incendiary that Twitter hid it under a disclaimer, saying, it "violates our policies regarding the glorification violence based on the historical context of the last line."

And Twitter did the same when the White House defiantly reposted Trump`s words to its official account.

Amid this uproar, Trump later made a feeble attempt to take back his tweet by claiming that it meant something entirely different.

He said: "Looting leads to shooting. I don`t want this to happen. And that`s what the expression put out last night means."

I`m joined now by Democratic Senator Kamala Harris of California, who formerly served as attorney general of that state.

And, Senator, I`m going to go right to you on that. Your response to Donald Trump`s use of, "When the looting starts, the shooting starts," a quite famous phrase from the civil rights era?

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): Joy, this man, Donald Trump, is unfit to be president of the United States.

And what he does time and time again is, he uses Twitter as a means of -- as a weapon to hurt people.

And what he does not realize, which is why he`s not fit to be president of the United States. America is in pain right now. We`re in the midst of a pandemic, but America is in pain right now because that man, George Floyd, should not be dead. He is dead. He is dead.

And black blood stains the sidewalks of America. And so, when we are watching the protests, it is an expression of deep pain. We are talking about somebody, some mother`s child. And it`s happening throughout our country. And it has been happening for generations.

And so, you know, I really -- I`m exhausted with talking about Donald Trump. He doesn`t understand the pain that America feels. And he actually incites -- and I applaud Twitter and Jack Dorsey for disciplining him the way they have, to say that this is not the kind of word or the kind of conduct that we should expect in civil discourse.

REID: Yes. And, you know, I think a lot of people are quite exhausted, with you, Senator.

Let`s talk about this particular case.

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

REID: What do you make of the decision to charge Officer Chauvin with third-degree murder?

Do you think that was the right charge? And what do you make of the time that it took, the idea that they needed more evidence, despite all the video that was out?

HARRIS: I mean, I have been calling on them to arrest that police officer for murder for some time now, since this happened. He clearly committed murder.

We now know the number of minutes, not seconds, minutes, that he pressed his knee down on the neck of a man who was handcuffed. We are talking about an unarmed, handcuffed man who was killed at the knee of a police officer.

And so what we need to do now is, we need to address this. There needs to be serious consequence and accountability. And, also, I would suggest that we need to take seriously and there needs to be accountability and consequence for those other officers who were at the scene, who clearly were aware of what was happening, if not actually participating in what happened.

And there should be a consequence and accountability for them.

REID: So, you believe they should be charged as well?

HARRIS: I believe that, under the laws of Minnesota, that there is a duty - - and, if not, there should be a duty -- to stop what is obviously a crime happening right in front of them. They have a colleague who was committing murder right in front of them.

And here`s the thing about this Joy. Bad cops should go to jail, period. Bad cops should go to jail. And bad cops are not good for good cops.

So, this is about what is in the best interest of the community, of the family. And it`s also about what`s in the best interest of law enforcement.

REID: And what...

HARRIS: But the bottom line here is, in America still, we have two systems of justice. There are two systems of justice.

When you have a president and his attorney general, who should be running a Department of Justice investigating patterns and practice of discrimination and abuse, when you should have an attorney general under Donald Trump who is -- who is enforcing consent decrees, as Loretta lynch just talked about, but, instead, what do they do?

Two systems of justice in America. Michael Flynn gets off, right? You -- meanwhile, you have Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor. Where is their justice?

So, this is where we are right now. America is in pain. People are fully and completely aware of what is going on. And the fact that there is not justice for all, not equal justice for all in America, and so we need to keep fighting for those ideals.

And, frankly, we need to elect Joe Biden and have a Department of Justice that is run where there is accountability and consequence for all behaviors that violate the law.

REID: And I`ll make a point for the audience that, if you missed it earlier today, former Vice President Biden appeared on CNN. He also appeared on MSNBC with Craig Melvin. And he -- he had some very strong remarks about Donald Trump, calling his remarks thoroughly irresponsible, if not -- and not presidential.

But I want to ask you another question about this, because you had that job of being attorney general, but you have been in that prosecutor`s shoes.

HARRIS: Yes.

REID: I don`t want to set you against your -- your colleague, but Senator Amy Klobuchar was the Hennepin County prosecutor previously.

In 2006, Officer Chauvin had one of his something like 19 accusations of misconduct. He was ultimately not charged by a grand jury. And I`ll point out that the grand jury actually took place once Senator Klobuchar was already sworn in as a senator. But she could have charged him before that. She could have just been charged him on her own.

In hindsight, should he have been charged before, so that he would not have been on the force, and have -- and be able to even be anywhere near George Floyd?

HARRIS: Well, I`m not familiar with that case.

But I`ll say this, that when we see patterns and practice of misconduct, we need to take them seriously. There needs to be investigations. There needs to be a Department of Justice and independent investigations into the misconduct.

I strongly believe that it should be a national standard that no prosecutor`s office can investigate an unlawful shooting or a police officer-involved shooting, that there should instead be an independent investigator, be it through the Department of Justice or some other office, that investigates those cases.

I also believe, Joy, that we need to have a national standard in terms of use of force by police officers. Right now, the standard in many places is to question whether their use of force was reasonable.

Well, we could find reason for just about everything.

What I am arguing is that the national standard should be necessary, meaning the question will be, was that use of force necessary at that very moment? This is what we need to do to push forward. But we need real reform.

And, you know, look, I`m from California. Rodney King was almost 30 years ago, and we`re having the same conversations over and over and over again. And we know what the solutions look like.

REID: Yes.

HARRIS: And maybe more now than ever before, the coalition of who we are as Americans, regardless of our race or gender, will stand up and say, we believe in the concept of justice for all. We have two systems of justice in America. Let`s fight for our ideals.

REID: Senator Kamala Harris, thank you so much for being here, giving us some of your time tonight. Thank you so much.

And up next...

HARRIS: Thank you. Thank you, Joy.

REID: Thank you.

Up next: more on policing and race in America with the Reverend Al Sharpton. What needs to happen now?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: Welcome back.

Last night`s demonstrations in Minneapolis were just one of many across the country to protest police violence against black people.

In Louisville, Kentucky, hundreds protested against the shooting death of Breonna Taylor. Taylor was the 26-year-old EMT who was shot and killed by three white police officers who entered the wrong apartment on an after- midnight narcotics raid back in March.

Yesterday, her family released the 911 call her boyfriend made after the shooting now.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Nine-one-one operator here. Where`s your emergency?

KENNETH WALKER, BOYFRIEND OF BREONNA TAYLOR: I don`t even know what is happening. Somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

REID: Kenneth Walker, Breonna Taylor`s boyfriend, who you can hear crying and pleading on that tape, was originally charged with a crime, believe it or not, those charges have now been dropped.

Breonna Taylor and George Floyd are, of course, just two of the many instances of deadly encounters between police and people of color in this country.

And for more, I`m joined by the Reverend Al Sharpton, president of the National Action Network and host of "POLITICS NATION" on MSNBC, and Cynthia Alksne, a former federal prosecutor.

Thank you both.

Reverend Al, we have been in the middle of a few of these, where the public comes out and calls for an arrest, it takes quite a while, an arrest ultimately happens.

What do you make of this -- of these charges against Officer Chauvin today?

AL SHARPTON, HOST, "POLITICS NATION": Well, I think that the family said it best.

I have been working with the family and attorney Ben Crump. And President Trump called Philonise, the -- Philonise Bloyd -- Floyd, rather, the brother of George Floyd. And he said to him, he told me -- I just talked to him and attorney Crump -- that he said to the president what he said to the nation, the whole family said to the nation.

And some of it will be on "POLITICS NATION" with me tomorrow night. They want first-degree murder, and they want the other officers arrested for murder. And I think that we cannot forget, this prosecutor just yesterday said that there was something in the tapes that may have established that this was not a crime.

Then, today, he makes an arrest. He tried to clean up what he said last night.

So, the confidence in this prosecutor is very much at low ebb by all of us that have been involved.

I was in Minneapolis on -- yesterday, as you know, doing a vigil with the mother of Eric Garner. Don`t forget, Joy, there was a tape of Eric Garner pleading, "I can`t breathe," in 2006 -- six years ago, in 2014.

And they never even prosecuted those officers. And it took five years to get him fired. We need an overhaul of the system in terms of policy. We must remember that, when President Obama was in, under Loretta lynch, who you had on earlier, and Eric Holder, there were consent decrees in various cities that had a pattern and practice of bad policing.

One of the first things happened under the Trump administration is, they tried to fight to withdraw all of those consent decrees. So, some things are in place, like pattern and practice consent decrees. Others things, we need to strengthen to make sure that it is criminal.

We`re not talking about bad cops. We`re talking about criminal cops. If you are putting your -- your knee on someone`s throat, and to the point where they are unconscious, and there`s no pulse, and you still keep it there for another two minutes, that`s a crime.

At some point, that becomes intent. And intent, by the law, as I understand it -- I`m not a lawyer, don`t play one on television. But I have common sense. Intent is one of the elements in first-degree murder.

This family does want a deposit on justice. They want full justice.

REID: You know, and, Cynthia Alksne, as a former prosecutor, I want to -- the thing that people don`t understand about the delay in the charges is that, when it comes to average citizens, it`s a very different situation.

I want to just go a second to Midland, Texas, and just walk you through a case. This is the case of a young man, a 21-year-old man, whose name is Tye Anders. He is arrested immediately for allegedly running a stop sign, a stop sign.

Police train guns on him. You can see video of multiple cars, of people with guns trained on him. Let`s see if we can play a little bit of that video, if we could. And this is from May 16. And it shows officers drawing their guns on him, on Tye Anders, after they saw he failed to stop at a stop sign.

The video depicts the police with their guns drawn, telling Anders to listen to them, as family and friends of Anders shout at police not to shoot him. This goes on for at least three minutes. The officers approach. They began to detain him.

His 90-year-old grandmother on a cane, who was standing next to Anders, appears to fall on top of him. He`s been charged with felony evading arrest.

Here`s the police statement about the arrest: "The suspect refused to cooperate with officers after officers approached the subject and began detainment. The female next to the subject appeared to lose balance and fall."

The female is a 90-year-old grandmother on a cane.

When people see human beings treated like that, they don`t...

CYNTHIA ALKSNE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: In her pajamas.

REID: Right.

They don`t understand why an officer who`s on multiple videotapes with his arm pressed down on a man`s throat, they need to -- or on his neck -- they need more information.

Does it make sense to you?

ALKSNE: Well, because I prosecuted these police officer cases, I know how difficult they are to win.

And so we -- it is smart to be very careful and get as much information as possible, because the goal is to win them. The goal is not to have a quick -- just have a quick arrest. The goal is to prosecute this police officer, who killed -- killed this poor man by putting his knee on his neck for minutes and minutes after he had gone completely limp, to the point where the officer is, like, looking around, he has his hand in his pocket.

The man is obviously not a threat. And the goal is to get him convicted. It`s not just to get him charged. And so there -- it is important to take the time to make sure you get the statements, to make sure you can look into all of the details of prior complaints about him, to figure out, what are the prior complaints about the other people?

What is the deal on an autopsy? Is it going to be time to get an independent autopsy? And it looks like, in this case, it is going to be time to do that in the Floyd case.

And there is so much that has to happen because of the way the statutes are written to protect the police officers that I do understand why it does take time.

I will say this. It -- this is pretty quick in a police case. I think it was required. It should have been even quicker. I`m not saying it didn`t -- but I understand why the prosecutor said, it -- this was a pretty quick, actual arrest. And it was.

REID: All right.

Well...

(CROSSTALK)

ALKSNE: But let`s get the conviction, Joy. Let`s get the conviction. That`s the goal.

REID: Yes.

ALKSNE: That`s the goal.

REID: Well, we shall see. We will definitely be following this case.

Reverend Al...

ALKSNE: And to turn to the Texas case for a second...

REID: Sorry. Go ahead.

ALKSNE: I just -- the Texas case is completely heavy-handed and abuse of force. The guy was lying on the ground. His hands are in the air. He clearly doesn`t have a weapon.

REID: Yes.

ALKSNE: And his grandmother had to save him.

REID: Yes.

ALKSNE: It`s an -- it`s terrible.

REID: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

SHARPTON: But I think, Joy -- and I know you have to go to break.

(CROSSTALK)

REID: Reverend Al -- yes.

SHARPTON: But I think that we must remember that, when we talk about moving, we`re not talking about just isolated cases.

It`s been case after case after case. And we have been told, wait.

REID: Yes.

SHARPTON: Martin Luther King said 55 years ago why we can`t wait.

If you wait too long, you will go into a deep freeze. We have got to stop these litany of cases with judicial excuses. It`s time to deal with this. And we need to deal with it right now.

Maybe, if we dealt with it before, we could understand the time period. But time is up now for these police to be walking around doing this on film and walking away scot-free.

REID: Reverend Al Sharpton, Cynthia Alksne, thank you both. Really appreciate it. Apologize for the little bit of a delay there.

We have got a lot more to talk about. So, please don`t go anywhere.

We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: Joining me now is NBC News correspondent Trymaine Lee, continuing our discussion of our country`s systemic problem of police violence against minorities.

My friend, Trymaine, we did this for a year, about a year, from the Michael Brown case, really starting with Trayvon Martin, going to Baltimore, whether it was police or civilians. This feels like a never-ending story.

How is it different now, if it is different, in your view?

TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: You know, I don`t think so much that it`s different in any way. I don`t think we have gained much progress.

The anguish and grief and exhaustion and the weight has only gotten heavier. And I think about these last couple of weeks. When you think about what happened with Ahmaud Arbery with white vigilantes, when you think about Breonna Taylor with these knockless warrants, and you think about George Floyd taking his last breaths with a police officer`s knee on his neck, and it feels like, when he says, "I can`t breathe," that we can`t breathe.

And then, after that, to see that sign in Minneapolis on that rooftop, where it says, "Can you hear us now?" and to see those buildings burning, and to see those masses of young people out there yelling, and angry, and many of them grief-stricken, I don`t think we have come too far.

And these are young people. And not that it`s all just young people, but they came of age -- think about 2012, with Trayvon Martin, and even before that, the Jena Six just a few years before then, and then Freddie Grays, and Mike Brown, and Eric Garner.

And here we are again. But we should never forget that this kind of vibe and anguish and grief is baked into America, baked into it. It`s never not been like this for black people in this country.

And so, when we look back over the last five and six years hoping for change, the only thing we did really is shift the gaze from this police violence and the state-sanctioned violence to politics.

But police were still killing black folks. Black folks were still dying. We just didn`t know their names because we weren`t paying attention.

REID: Yes.

I mean, the thing is that is extraordinary is that, in the midst of a pandemic that is disproportionately killing black people, black and white crowds -- Minnesota is only 7 percent African-American -- are out there risking COVID in order to march against police violence.

That says something pretty profound to me. What does that say to you?

LEE: You know, I literally had that same thought just a minute ago.

I said to my wife, I said, hopefully, these don`t become hot spots for COVID-19, which has been, as one environmental scientist described to me, a heat-seeking missile to the black community and vulnerable communities with all the preexisting conditions.

But that level of COVID-19, that extra layer, that we can`t even mourn together, we can`t hug each other, we can`t console each other in death, but also in life.

To say that none of -- none of that other stuff matters, but, right here, right now, when they have to yell and they have to be heard and they have to express themselves, they said, everything else be damned.

And it`s hard to watch. But then you also know where that feeling is coming from, that anguish, that grief, and, quite frankly, that outrage that`s driving them back into the streets.

REID: Yes.

I met you covering Trayvon, Trymaine Lee. It feels like Groundhog Day. It`s never going to end.

Thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

Stay sane. That is what I`m telling folks now. Stay safe and stay sane.

(LAUGHTER)

REID: And up next -- thank you.

And up next: the latest developments on the ground in Minneapolis. And we will take you there live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: We are continuing to follow developments from Minneapolis.

And Ali Velshi joins me now -- oh, no, to Morgan Chesky. I apologize that. We scrolled to the wrong thing.

Morgan Chesky, you`re not Ali Velshi.

Give us a sense from where you are. We are one hour away from curfew. The governor has asked folks out there to comply with the curfew, to help the state to close down safely at an hour from now.

What`s the sense that you get from the people around you of whether or not that is the mood that they are in, to follow that curfew?

MORGAN CHESKY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Joy, the sense is, people are still making up their mind on what exactly they`re going to do when that 8:00 p.m. curfew hits, and it lasts until 6:00 a.m. from Friday through the weekend.

We have an hour to go and a crowd of about 200, 250 people around me right now. I just got done speaking to one of those here, who says that, after witnessing the damage of the past couple of nights, they don`t know whether to protect local businesses or, as he said, try to take the block back.

And as far as who would they be taking it back from, it would be these state patrol officers who are here en masse. They arrived this morning, Joy, and they established a wide perimeter around this area.

They, along with the National Guard, are just some of the new resources we`re seeing being used here in Minneapolis to at least try and keep the peace, after two nights in a row of extensive damage that burned dozens of buildings and covered about a 10-square-block area in South Minneapolis.

Everyone here hoping that they don`t see the third night in a row of destruction -- Joy.

REID: Morgan -- NBC`s Morgan Chesky, thank you very much. Really appreciate you.

And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: That is our show for tonight.

But, before we go, I want to tell you about a special that I`m hosting this Sunday night with Bishop William Barber. We`re calling it "American Crisis: Poverty and the Pandemic," where we will take an in-depth look at the toll the coronavirus is taking on the working poor in this country.

And I will be joining Lawrence O`Donnell tonight at 10:00 p.m. And we will be back here tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. for "A.M. JOY."

So much to do.

"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts is up next.

  THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END