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Melissa Harris-Perry, Transcript 08/08/15

Guests: Matt Coles, Katon Dawson, Thena Robinson-Mock, Christina Greer,Tyler Brewster, Alberto Carvalho, Sean Malcolm, Toni Blackman, Damon Young,Penny Wrenn, Alison Harrington, Rachel Campos-Duffy

MELISSA HARRIS-PERRY, MSNBC ANCHOR: This morning my question, why did Trump just get dumped? Plus, my interview with the attorney general 50 years after the Voting Rights Act. And the real debate, Drake versus Nick Mill. But first, the reality of immigration versus the rhetoric of the GOP. Good morning. I`m Melissa Harris-Perry. And we begin today with the first Republican presidential debate. Where, despite the positioning of Donald Trump right in the middle during the main event, there was still enough room for policy issues like immigration to take center stage. The candidates while looking to distinguish themselves from the pack, largely took the tough stance on immigration supported by Republican-based voters who in a recent Pew poll characterized immigrants as a burden by majority of 63 percent. Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker was asked by the moderators to explain his flip-flop from his decade long position of supporting comprehensive immigration reform and a path to citizenship, and he explained that his evolution was a response to what he learned after visiting the border. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R-W) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIATE: There`s international criminal organizations penetrating our southern based borders and we need to do something about it, secure the border, enforce the law, no amnesty and go forward with the legal immigration system that gives priority to American working families and wages. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Donald Trump got more specific about a criminal element. He wanted to keep out of the country, doubling down on his earlier controversial comments about undocumented Mexican immigrants. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R ) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Many killings, murders, crime, drugs pour across the border. Money going out and the drugs coming in. And I said we need to build a wall and it has to be built quickly. We need Jeb to build a wall. We need to keep illegals out. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Marco Rubio took things a step further invoking the specter of Mexican criminals, but also claiming that not even a wall would be enough to keep them out. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R-FL) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I also believe we need a fence. The problem is if El Chapo builds a tunnel under the fence, we have to be able to deal with that, too. And that`s why you need an e-verify system and you need an entry/exit tracking system and all sorts of others things to prevent illegal immigration. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: One of the most hard lined stances came from Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal who didn`t make the cut for the prime time debate, but had this message for immigrants during the undercard forum earlier in the day. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R-LA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We must insist on assimilation. Immigration without assimilation is an invasion. We need to tell folks who want to come here they need to come here legally, they need to learn English, adopt our values, roll up their sleeves and get to work. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Amid all of the candidates` characterizations of immigrants as invaders, criminals and, quote, illegals, former Florida governor Jeb Bush took a different policy approach to addressing immigrants as something else. People. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) FMR. GOV. JEB BUSH (R-FL) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that the great majority of people coming here illegally have no other option. They want to provide for their family. And there should be a path to earn legal status for those that are here. Not amnesty. Earned legal status, which means you pay a fine and do many things over an extended period of time. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: For the 11 million undocumented immigrants currently living in the United States, immigration is as much a humanitarian issue as it is a concern for national security or crime control. One year ago we brought you the story of one of those millions, Rosa Lareto, married mother of two sons in Tucson, Arizona, a community that has been her home since she first arrived in the United States on a visa in 1999. When Rosa was pulled over on a traffic stop in 2010, she was flagged to border patrol and held in detention for 53 days. After spending years fighting her case in immigration court, Rosa was issued an order for deportation in July of 2014. The night before she was to be deported she sought sanctuary at Tucson`s South Side Presbyterian Church where as of today Rosa has lived for 366 days. Still awaiting word that she will be able to remain with her family in the only community she has known for the last 15 years. Joining me from Tucson, Arizona, is the person who opened the doors of a safe space to Rosa, Reverend Alison Harrington, pastor of the Southside Presbyterian Church. Nice to have you this morning. REV. ALISON HARRINGTON, SOUTHSIDE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH: Thank you. HARRIS-PERRY: Let me start by asking how is Rosa and her family? HARRINGTON: Well, these 365 days, 366 now have been difficult. It`s been a time of a lot of despair and disillusionment as we have continued to see policies that have been laid out by the Obama administration and the Department of Homeland Security not be implemented on the ground level by ICE. So, it`s been a difficult time. It`s also been a time of increased leadership on the part of Rosa and she has felt an immense amount of support from our community here in Tucson. And she has a lot of faith, still, that we will be able to see her leave sanctuary safely soon. HARRIS-PERRY: Let me ask you a little bit about sort of that Republican debate and some of what we heard. So, I almost hate to play this game, but just pause for a minute for me there, Alison, let`s listen to some more of what we heard from Republicans, and then I want to ask you what they`re getting wrong in this story. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUHARRIS-PERRY: But we need Jeb to build a wall. We need to keep illegals out. CHRIS WALLACE: Is it as simple as our leaders are stupid, their leaders are smart, and all of these illegals coming over are criminals? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Including illegals, prostitutes, pimps, drug dealers, all the people that are freeloading off the system now. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Are those words that describe Rosa? HARRINGTON: No, no, absolutely not. She`s a little league mom. That`s what she is. She loves her kids. She is a loving wife, a community member here in Tucson. And across Tucson today, we have over 9,000 signs, yard signs, that say we stand with Rosa. So, Tucson is saying this is someone who is a valued member of our community, someone who should be allowed to stay here with us. HARRIS-PERRY: Part of what I think I find interesting about this immigration debate is how frequently we talk about undocumented immigrants as though they are a great threat to the United States, but rarely talk about the threats facing undocumented immigrants themselves. And a new report by BuzzFeed this week tells us that the H2 visa program has actually helped to fuel these abysmal working conditions that look actually very close to human slavery. I`m wondering if in the work that you all are doing there at the church, you`re hearing about work place abuses or other kinds of vulnerabilities that immigrants, both undocumented and otherwise are facing. HARRINGTON: Yeah, absolutely. Our work is not just about sanctuary. We respond in a multitude of different ways to meet the needs of our community and our neighbors. And so, we actually have a day labor center that has been in operation at our church since 2016 -- I`m sorry, 2006. And the reason we had to establish it is because we were seeing horrific abuses of day laborers, men who had come here largely from Mexico to provide for their family back home in ways that they weren`t able to do in their country of origin, and we were seeing abuses and abuses, wage theft, unsafe working conditions, abandonment of workers on a job site far out. It`s been difficult for us to see the way, in which the undocumented communities here in the border lands have not only been treated poorly by employers, but have really been living in fear constantly. And it`s something that grieves us deeply. HARRIS-PERRY: Obviously, you use the language of sanctuary there, and that you are providing sanctuary for Rosa and those other individuals for whom you have provided sanctuary, but the language of sanctuary cities became a real kind of political hot topic after some very difficult events that occurred just a few months ago. So I`m asking, can you just sort of distinguish that a little bit so that our viewers will know the difference? HARRINGTON: Yeah, absolutely. And to begin with, as a mother and as a pastor, we grieve and we pray for the Steinle family in this time of great personal tragedy in their lives, but, you`re right. The difference between a congregation being called by their faith to practice the ancient tradition of sanctuary and take into their house of worship an undocumented immigrant, to protect them while they begin a campaign to stop their deportation is very different than a law enforcement policy that a city may implement in order to give more -- to provide a more stable community. What we`ve seen through the sanctuary cities is that when you have law enforcement who are just able to act as law enforcement and not as immigration officials, people are more willing to work with law enforcement, they are more willing to report crimes. Women suffering domestic violence are more willing to come forward. And when you have law enforcement agencies that are empowered to act as immigration officials, you have a destabilizing force in the community and you also have families like Rosa`s that are torn apart. It was a traffic stop in 2010. And it was the collaboration between law enforcement and immigration that ended her up in detention. HARRIS-PERRY: Yeah. HARRINGTON: Ended her up with deportation order and she`s now in sanctuary because of that ill-conceived policy of collaboration between law enforcement and an immigration enforcement. HARRIS-PERRY: Let me say thank you again to Reverend Alison Harrington, Tucson, Arizona. Please, give Rosa and her family our very best. And stay right there, everybody else. Because up next, Trump gets dumped from a major conservative event as the tide turns against the front-runner. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: During the 2012 presidential race more than 100,000 people signed a petition calling for a woman, any woman, to moderate one of the debates. It had been 20 years since a woman had done the job. In the end CNN`s Candy Crowley refereed one of the debates between President Obama and Governor Romney. That`s just a little context for Fox News` Megyn Kelly`s star turn at this week`s Republican primary debate. She earned high marks from many for her blunt questions of the candidates. But one candidate in particular did not appreciate her forthright questions. Here is what Donald Trump said last night on CNN. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUHARRIS-PERRY: Certainly I don`t have a lot of respect for Megyn Kelly. She`s a lightweight, and she came out there reading her little script and trying to be tough and be sharp. And when you meet her you realize she is not very tough and she`s not very sharp. She gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. And, you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Trump was supposed to speak this weekend at the conservative Red State gathering in Atlanta, but after those remarks on CNN conservative commentator Erick Erickson tweeted that he had decided to rescind Mr. Trump`s invitation. In a post last night on the website Red State, Erickson explained, quote, "his comment," that`s Trump`s, "was inappropriate. It`s unfortunate to have to disinvite him, but I just don`t want someone on stage who gets a hostile question from a lady and his first inclination is to imply it was hormonal. It just was wrong. MSNBC`s Kasie Hunt joins us now from Atlanta where the red state conference is taking place this weekend. So, just how has the Trump campaign responded? KASIE HUNT, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, Melissa, the Trump campaign has responded with its typical bravado and he`s tweeted several times over the course of the morning, but has not apologized. One of the tweets seemed to suggest that he was talking about Megyn Kelly`s nose when he said wherever, although that is not apparently what he`s been saying in private. Erick Erickson was up onstage early this morning. He opened the gathering a little bit earlier than it was supposed to be to talk about this very topic and he said that he had been on the phone back and forth with the Trump campaign the night before, trying to get some clarification, trying to get them to say, you know, this isn`t actually what everybody interpreted it to be. Erickson said that the Trump campaign wouldn`t do that, that they had doubled down on their comments and so he wasn`t going to invite Trump here today. And that`s been met with some mixed reaction from the crowd. There is definitely some people here who do really want to hear from Trump and Erickson faced a few boos from the crowd, but he probably faced more applause on balance. And, you know, to a certain extent these are comments that don`t really fly in the South. You saw him describe Megyn Kelly as a lady and I think that`s where some people are getting tripped up here. HARRIS-PERRY: Is it a big deal to get disinvited from this event? I mean I don`t want to act as though this is a, you know, a televised debate. It`s not like CNN disinvited him from the next Republican debate. What difference does it make to be disinvited from this? HUNT: Well, I mean I characterize this as an important gathering of particularly the Tea Party-focused wing of the Republican Party. There`s been a lot of, talk here about issues, like ethanol, for example, or focus on financial issues. It`s not necessarily a classic social conservative gathering the way something in Iowa might be. I will say that Senator Ted Cruz, for example, somebody who is very popular with this crowd and to a certain extent, I think you can interpret this as a little bit of a coming to the defense of some of the conservative candidates who maybe have been drowned out by Donald Trump, those angry voters who are really saying right now in the polls that they back Trump. Those people are very important to candidates like Ted Cruz potentially to a Scott Walker. So, disinviting Trump, I think, sends a statement to that part of the field. HARRIS-PERRY: Thank you to Kasie Hunt in Atlanta, Georgia. Now. I want to bring in my panel on this. And joining me now, Christina Greer, assistant professor at Fordham University and author of "Black Ethnics, Race, Immigration, and the Pursuit of the American Dream." Juan Manuel Benitez, who is a political reporter and host on "Terra Politica", on New York 1 Noticias, Katon Dawson, national Republican consultant and the South Carolina campaign director for Governor Rick Perry. And Rachel Campos-Duffy, who is a national spokesperson for the Liberty Initiative. Thank you all for being here. RACHEL CAMPOS-DUFFY, THE LIBERTY INITIATIVE: Thank you. HARRIS-PERRY: All right. I enjoyed Megyn Kelly on Thursday night a great deal in part because, I mean, this show was part of, I think, many others who in 2012 was like, look, agree or disagree, Republican or Democrat, Fox News, MSNBC, could we please have a woman`s voice represented here? And then it just got ugly. CAMPOS-DUFFY: Well, to me what this looks like as a conservative is it shows how new Trump is to the conservative movement and that there are limits to his understanding of what conservatives are like. So if you`re in a debate and you take a shot at Rosie O`Donnell, you`re going to get - it`s red meat, they love it. They don`t like her. Take a shot at Megyn Kelly, she is the darling of the conservative journalist crowd. Every guy wants to date her. Every conservative mom wants their daughter to grow up to be her. So, he just didn`t read the crowd well. But I do think there`s a danger here and I agree with what Erickson did, but there`s a danger in making the point for him in that he said in the debate I don`t have time for political correctness. This country doesn`t have time for political correctness, and a lot of Republicans and conservatives really respond to that. They`re sick of all the oversensitivity and they`re kind of making the point for him. So, I think there`s a balance here. HARRIS-PERRY: So, it`s an interesting question. I`m wondering why is this the bridge too far? I mean Mr. Trump has said a lot of things that are offensive or troubling to the left - for example, as characterization of undocumented immigrants we talked about earlier. Then he says some things that are pretty offensive and distressing to a wide group of people like his comments against Senator McCain, right? But why these comments? And the particular aspect of this set of comments, why is that the bridge too far? KATON DAWSON, NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: The race really just started. And the winner was Fox News, and I was at the base and witnessed all of the surroundings. And our primaries are a little bit like a NASCAR race right now. I mean Trump has got all this attention, people are looking for the rack, they are looking for the entertainment value. And it hadn`t been real good for our party. So, I`m speaking with my party - the guy who has done this for 40 somewhat years, won over 100 elections and understands that. But you can only put that teapot up so much when people start listen to substance. The comment last night about Megyn Kelly and the blood in her eyes is a bridge too far. That ... HARRIS-PERRY: It wasn`t about the blood in her eyes that was the bridge too far. DAWSON: Yeah. CAMPOS-DUFFY: But it`s about the insensitivity that Republicans have about the war on women. They felt smeared by the war on women in the last election and they`re sensitive about it. HARRIS-PERRY: So maybe - so maybe, like but I`ve got - I actually had a moment this morning about this because, again, I don`t share much in the world of political and ideological agreement with Ms. Kelly and she doesn`t like me very much, but, that said, the thing that I think is odd here is what I was appalled by in that comment was she`s a lightweight. She`s not too bright. You know, she comes with her little words written down, but that isn`t the thing people were mad about. Like if that were the bridge too far, I`d be down with it. I`d like yes! Get it! But it seems to be the suggestion that a woman of childbearing age menstruates. That is a bridge too far. We know women`s bodies are so disgusting, so vile, so awful, but even though we can spend out entire debate talking about regulating them, we can`t talk about menstruation, because then, now, Mr. Trump, you have gone too far. And that actually worries me. CHRISTINA GREER, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Well, I think the 17 candidates should worry us. Because they`re so obsessed with women`s bodies. I mean we know that Donald Trump is a race bathing misogynist. We know this. We have proof and facts. However, I think I was more appalled when before all this happened, when he`s in the debate essentially joking that he has called women pigs and made similar comments in the past and none of his nine counterparts ever said, excuse me, sir, that`s highly inappropriate. HARRIS-PERRY: Well, let`s listen to Megyn Kelly, because she was very clear that - was inappropriate. Let`s first take a listen. And here we go. Do we have it? Do we have it? Nope, we don`t. OK, so we will wait. CAMPOS-DUFFY: Can I jump in here? HARRIS-PERRY: Yeah, sure. CAMPOS-DUFFY: I don`t think for a second that the Republican candidates or the Republican Party or the people watching or hearing these comments from Trump are in some way outraged or disgusted by women menstruating. That`s hardly - that`s the implication that she`s hormonal. It goes back to that stereotype of women. And then I don`t think it`s a coincidence that the first person to tweet about this was ... HARRIS-PERRY: Carly Fiorina. CAMPOS-DUFFY: Carly Fiorina because she understands that. HARRIS-PERRY: Sure. But let me just say -- CAMPOS-DUFFY: Conservatives are sensitive for having been unfairly smeared with the war on women in the last election, and they are not going to let it happen again by someone who in some ways is an outsider to the party. HARRIS-PERRY: OK, so we now - I think we have - control room, we now do have -- let`s take a listen to that and I`ll come back. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MEGYN KELLY: You`ve called women you don`t like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. Does that sound you like the temperament of a man we should elect as president? Would you really let a mother die rather than have an abortion? How would you destroy ISIS in 90 days? If you believe that life begins at conception, as you say you do, how do you justify ending a life just because it begins violently through no fault of the baby? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Megyn -- KELLY: When did you actually become a Republican? (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: So, she was extremely no nonsense, she`s completely capable of protecting herself in the world, right? Like this is a woman who as far as I can tell, doesn`t actually need Erick Erickson`s help. Like she seems ... CAMPOS-DUFFY: She is moderating the presidential debate. HARRIS-PERRY: Yeah, and she`s moderated it quite well, thank you. But I actually - I don`t think -- because it isn`t -- this is a person who has said pigs, dogs, slobs. And there wasn`t - well, he can`t come. It really, literally was when he said this thing about blood coming from everywhere. JUAN MANUEL: I think they were waiting for something - the Republican Party was waiting for something to really give them an excuse to try to get rid of Donald Trump. I think everything started with that demeaning answer he gave to a question by Megyn Kelly at the debate. That was not well received by the people in the audience. I think the one thing for Republican voters, they`re not stupid. One thing is to be angry. And you can be angry and I can be OK with your stand-up routine when you are on the stage. But when you`re on the stage with other candidates and I`m expecting you to discuss serious policy issues and you`re giving me still that stand-up routine, then that`s not going to work that well. DAWSON: Let me - Let me just unpack it a little bit. Juan is right. HARRIS-PERRY: I`m going to let you unpack it. I`m just going to make you unpack it after the break, because they`re going to make me take a commercial first. We are going to take a commercial, we`ll come back. Katon`s going to unpack some. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: The Republican presidential primary, maybe this summer`s hottest new reality show. An estimated 24 million viewers tuned in Thursday night. As the top ten candidates for the Republican nomination for president finally took the stage together for the first of 11 planned debates. They gathered in Cleveland in nexus of the Black Lives Matter movement. Cleveland, where 12-year-old Tamir Rice was shot and killed by a police officer last year. Cleveland, where the police department is under a federal consent decree after the DOJ found a pattern of officers using deadly force unnecessarily. Cleveland, where the Black Lives Matter national conference was just held a few weeks ago. If the Republicans were hoping Black Lives Matter wouldn`t come up, they came to the wrong place. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KELLY: Many in the Black Lives Matter movement and beyond believe that overly aggressive police officers targeting young African-Americans is the civil rights issue of our time. Do you agree? SCOTT WALKER: It`s about training. It`s about making sure that law enforcement professionals not only on the way into their positions but all the way through their time have the proper training, particularly when it comes to use of force and that we protect and stand up and support those men and women who are doing their jobs in law enforcement, and for the very few that don`t, that there are consequences to show that we treat everyone the same here in America. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: That`s right. That was Megyn Kelly asking about Black Lives Matter and it`s a start. But I want to ask a totally different question today. When it comes to Republican candidates and voters, what lives matter? Based on the responses of the candidates, it`s clear that they believe potential lives certainly matter. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WALKER: I believe that that`s an unborn child that`s in need of protection out there. And I`ve said many of times that that unborn child can be protected and there are many other alternatives that will also protect the life of the mother. That`s been consistently proven. SEN. MARCO RUBIO: What I have advocated is, that we pass a law in this country that says, all human life at every stage of its development is worthy of protection. In fact, I think that law already exists. It`s called the Constitution of the United States. GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And this notion that we just continue to ignore the personhood of the individual is a violation of that unborn child`s Fifth and 14th Amendment rights for due process and equal protection under the law. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: So, potential lives definitely matter, but what about other lives? But what about immigrants and women, transgender people who want to fight for their country? What about black lives? How many of those other lives are going to matter for the votes for the GOP? What do you guys say for that? CAMPOS-DUFFY: I say as a Latino woman ... HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. CAMPOS-DUFFY: As a Latino woman, the pro-life issue is about brown and black lives. When 78 percent of all abortions in New York City are performed on black and brown babies. HARRIS-PERRY: Not on them. CAMPOS-DUFFY: It is. HARRIS-PERRY: Not on them. CAMPOS-DUFFY: Let`s be clear. HARRIS-PERRY: Whoa, whoa, whoa. So, I hear you. But I do - that proposition matters. Because I think there are times in this country we know historically when reproductive justice has in fact been performed or - reproductive injustice has been performed on the bodies of women of color, of Latinas, of black women, people have taken away the right to choose, have involuntarily sterilized. That`s not what happens when people are making a choice to terminate pregnancy. CAMPOS-DUFFY: But you talk about historically. Planned Parenthood is an organization that was founded by a racist woman who was for eugenics. And so ... HARRIS-PERRY: In the United States of America. By racist people who owned slaves, but I love this country deeply and profoundly because it is bigger than the individuals who founded it. CAMPOS-DUFFY: Planned Parenthood targets minority communities. We know that. HARRIS-PERRY: It does not target them. CAMPOS-DUFFY: It`s a fact. It`s a fact. GREER: The Republicans target minority communities. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: It`s not - You can`t - it`s not a fact. CAMPOS-DUFFY: : Our ... HARRIS-PERRY: It`s not a fact. CAMPOS-DUFFY: Our babies are being killed so let`s be clear about that. HARRIS-PERRY: OK, it`s not a fact that Planned Parenthood targets communities of color. Planned Parenthood often is cited -- sited, on a site, in some communities because they provide health care for women who cannot afford ... CAMPOS-DUFFY: You call it health care. I don`t. HARRIS-PERRY: You do call pap smears and ... CAMPOS-DUFFY: But that is such - that is such - that`s what Obamacare was for. If they want to give money, if they want to give money for pap smears, if they want to give money for breast exams, there are plenty of organizations that we can give our federal dollars to. Most Americans, the vast majority, almost 80 percent of Americans, want federal funding out of abortion. HARRIS-PERRY: It is out of abortion. CAMPOS-DUFFY: Listen, that money ... (CROSSTALK) CAMPOS-DUFFY: I know. But we know that those funds are fungible and we know that`s not true. HARRIS-PERRY: So I appreciate it and I appreciate that ... CAMPOS-DUFFY: I`m just telling you how I feel. HARRIS-PERRY: And, look, and I appreciate it. This is a meaningful debate, right? This is a part of - It is a meaningful debate, but I guess part of what I`m asking then is given the intensity of this debate, how we then didn`t hear about, for example, 12-year-old Tamir Rice or about the other ... BENITEZ: And let`s be fair. Because it`s great that they got more than 20 million people watching the debate is. HARRIS-PERRY: Sure. BENITEZ: The debate was for Republican primary voters and the Republican Party, the same as the Democratic Party, as they are trying to appeal to a certain demographic. That`s how politics is playing. And in this case there were other more important questions for those candidates to answer that those Republican primary voters want to hear the answers. HARRIS-PERRY: There are - There are definitely some Republicans who are thinking forward to the general election. BENITEZ: It`s too early. HARRIS-PERRY: I do want to play ... BENITEZ: Yeah, I want to play Rand Paul talking about -- because he does kind of do it in an interesting Black Lives Matter moment. Let`s take a look at Mr. Paul. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PAUL: But I`ve also gone to Chicago, I`ve gone to Detroit, I`ve been to Ferguson, I`ve been to Baltimore because I want our party to be bigger, better, and bolder and I`m the only one that leads Hillary Clinton in five states that were won by President Obama. I`m a different kind of Republican. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: That`s an interesting moment to me, right? So, you know, I get this point, right, the strategy is always, you are going to win the primary first. But you have polls there also saying, hey, I also recognize the primary is going to be insufficient. Let me make - probing a different kind of Republican. DAWSON: When you look down the road, Republicans are very successful. 68 bodies all over that versus 98 Republican-controlled House and Senate. Over 32 some-odd governors. We`re doing well around the country as Republicans, but we realize that our chances of winning a national election have diminished. We should have beaten President Obama last time with the issues there. We didn`t. So, you can`t -- either base can`t win. And we understand that. Back to Juan saying, this is a primary where certainly they`re going to talk about pro-life. It`s in every platform, in every state party there is. You`re going to talk about it, you are going to put your stake in the ground and you`re going to move on. So, you have to widen the tent. That debate didn`t do any widening for us. It was a debate that was pretty tough. Fox did a nice job. HARRIS-PERRY: And Fox won. As we were saying earlier, Fox won the debate. DAWSON: And our party, Fox may - Trump might come out and get away with it. Megyn Kelly is a little different at Fox. So, at the end of the day when you unpack all of this, this is an election that just started. We are six months away from the first vote being counted and I would contend to you that Trump`s shelf life will diminish as we go further. HARRIS-PERRY: I`m on this when we come back. The Republican base gave us lots of interesting moments including this one. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MIKE HUCKABEE, FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: The military is not a social experiment. The purpose of the military is kill people and break things. The purpose is to protect America. I`m not sure how paying for transgender surgery for soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines makes our country safer. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: 24 million people watched Thursday night`s debate. It`s (INAUDIBLE) as we go on - The biggest audiences the Republican contenders have ever had. And they wanted to introduce themselves, not just their policies, their stories, their background, to those 24 million people. And there was definitely, let`s call it, a common theme. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEB BUSH: I`m proud of my dad and I`m certainly proud of my brother. In Florida they call me Jeb because I earned it. CHRIS CHRISTIE: My dad came home from serving in the Army after having lost his father, works in a private ice cream plant in New York, New Jersey. TED CRUZ: I`m the son of a pastor and an evangelist. I will keep my word. My father fled Cuba and I will fight to defend liberty because my family knows what it`s like to lose it. KASICH: Well, Megyn, my father was a mailman. His father was a coal miner. RUBIO: Both of my parents were born into poor families on the island of Cuba. My father was a bartender and the journey from the back of that bar to this stage tonight, to me, that`s the essence of the American dream. (END VIDEOTAPE) HARRIS-PERRY: I can`t really make fun because I almost always start stories with my dad and my mom. It is part of the way we introduce ourselves. But I wonder what that tells us about what those candidates thought this debate was. BENITEZ: Again, they`re trying to appeal to their base, the working class, older male, in this case, white male, or Latino Cuban in this case with Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. They are trying to send a message to the primary base, but if we`re talking about that issue, Rand Paul - Rand Paul and his father, he`s not a real Republican. He`s a libertarian. HARRIS-PERRY: Right. Right. BENITEZ: The same as Rand Paul. HARRIS-PERRY: So, he just ends up in the Republican Party because the Democratic Party is too far-flung, but really is - he`s in a whole different category. (CROSSTALK) CAMPOS-DUFFY: Isn`t it beautiful that all of these men had fathers in their lives that made this kind of mark that evoked this kind of affection? I look at this -- I mean, it propelled all of them to run for the highest office in the land. We started the show talking about do Black Lives Matter, I think daddies, matter and I think these guys are all testaments of how important it is to have a father in your life, and especially when we know the number one predictor of poverty is not having an active father in your life. HARRIS-PERRY: I`m sorry. That`s actually not quite what the predictor of poverty is. It actually has to do with dual-income households. Not having active parenting -- I just want to clarify that the data is different. I think part of what`s important, and I think this is part of what you were emphasizing initially, because I also want to point out that poor daddies matter. What I don`t want to do is reduce the role that fathers can bring to the lives of any child to a paycheck. CAMPOS-DUFFY: Ted Cruz brought that up. That was a powerful story. His father left. There was hope and redemption. He came back. But the point of daddies is they have to stick around. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: Sometimes they don`t stick around. (CROSSTALK) GREER: All of them are introducing themselves to the Republican Party primary voters for the first time in many ways, right? You have to come up with an origin story so everyone is going back to this sort of 2004, my son of a coal miner narrative that we saw within the Democratic Party. HARRIS-PERRY: That didn`t turn out well. GREER: I`m always fascinated by my dad was a mailman, a coal miner. Thinking about the Black Lives Matter movement, many blacks were not even afforded opportunities to be mail men or coal miners. HARRIS-PERRY: I would also like to point out on the Black Lives Matter movement, because I think this gets lost in our discussion about, like, how important black fathers are, the black fathers of the boys and young men who have been shot and killed by police were almost all active members of their lives, beginning with Trayvon Martin, who, despite the fact that his parents were divorced, had been and was and was right at that moment actively, lovingly parenting that child. So while black fathers do matter in many ways, I have one that matters, they are not sufficient bulletproof against a system that -- (CROSSTALK) CAMPOS-DUFFY: A system that disincentivizes marriage. (CROSSTALK) BENITEZ: Talking about their fathers the same way Hillary Clinton is talking about her mother. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: They`re saying these are the role models. You can expect something from me that comes from this state (ph). DAWSON: You`re putting the politics to it. Some of the appeal of Donald Trump is the political correctness and he`s not a politician. Ben Carson is not a politician. Carly Fiorina not a politician. How do you do it? You introduce yourself as a normal person, the way you came from. That`s the politics of telling your personal story. HARRIS-PERRY: Can I play for just a second Scott Walker saying something about his normality because it was really funny. Let`s just listen to it as we go out. Let me just say, I want to say thank you to Juan Manuel Benitez and to Rachel Campos-Duffy. Christina and Katon are going to stick around in our next hour, and up next a preview of my exclusive interview with Attorney General Loretta Lynch. When we go out, we have to listen to Scott Walker for a second as we go. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WALKER: I`m a guy with a wife and two kids and a Harley. One (inaudible) called me aggressively normal. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: This week I was honored to be in the room when President Obama, congressman and civil rights leader John Lewis, and Attorney General Loretta Lynch were in Washington to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Voting Rights Act. I say commemorate and not celebrate because this law, which endured for decades with bipartisan support, is significantly weaker than when President Johnson made it the law of the land in 1965. The teeth of the VRA, its section five, which requires states and localities with specific well-documented histories of voter discrimination to have any change that they`re proposing to their voting rules precleared by the federal government. Basically, these areas have to ask permission before they can make changes. For decades, section five covered most of the former Jim Crow South. Two years ago, the Supreme Court deemed the Voting Rights Act`s formula for identifying which states and counties were subject to federal review unconstitutional. No formula, no section five. And Congress still has not acted to replace it. All is not lost. This week, a federal appeals court ruled that Texas` voter ID law violates the Voting Rights Act as it disproportionately disenfranchises black and Hispanic voters. While in Washington, D.C., I had the chance to sit down with Attorney General Lynch and get her thoughts on the state of the VRA and the need for a new preclearance formula. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ATTORNEY GENERAL LORETTA LYNCH: It was a very helpful tool not just for the department, but, frankly, for the country. Obviously that`s a loss, a blow but not a death knell to the Voting Rights Act. We still review those actions. We now look at them in the context of the impact as well as the intent behind them, where we have evidence that there`s a discriminatory intent as we put forth in the Texas case. So our enforcement of the Voting Rights Act will continue to be vigorous and it will continue to be strong and in-depth. We will do all that we can to protect this most fundamental American right. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: You can see all of my interview with the attorney general, Loretta Lynch, tomorrow on "MHP" show. And coming up next, the Nation`s Ari Berman, joins me to discuss his new book, "Give us the Ballot: Modern Struggle for Voting Rights in America." (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: On August 6, 1965, President Lyndon Johnson signed into law the Voting Rights Act, marking one of the greatest triumphs of the civil rights movement. Finally there was a law to combat the poll taxes, literacy tests, and procedural twists used to bar minorities from our democracy. It was a victory but it wasn`t the end of voting discrimination. 50 years later, lawmakers are finding new ways to keep people from the polls through voter ID laws, reduction of early voting hours, and voter role purges. It`s been half a century and the fight is far from over. Joining me now is Ari Berman, reporter at "The Nation" and author of "Give Us the Ballot: The Modern Struggle for Voting Rights in America." I love the book. You know this because (inaudible), I think it`s very important -- ARI BERMAN, THE NATION: The first blurb in. HARRIS-PERRY: Well, because I read it cover to cover in like 10 seconds. But help us a little bit through the book here, just so the folks know, what is the current landscape, what does the world of voting look like for Americans right now? BERMAN: Well, it`s deeply unnerving that 50 years after the passage of the Voting Rights Act we`re having a whole new debate about voting rights, and voting rights are under attack. You look at the last four years following Obama`s election, and all these states flipping to Republicans in 2010. 468 new voting restrictions introduced in 49 states over 2011 to 2015. So this is a debate in every part of the country. Half the states in the country have passed new voting restrictions during that time. In the 2016 election, the first presidential election in 50 years without the full protection of the Voting Rights Act, 15 states are going to have these new restrictions in place for the first time in 2016. Swing states like Wisconsin, Virginia, North Carolina. So we`re having a whole new struggle for voting rights today. HARRIS-PERRY: So when you start talking about the states, I`m looking at the map there, that map actually doesn`t look like the Civil War map, right? So is the Supreme Court is right, were they right that in fact the preclearance formula was outdated, outmoded? All of that stuff happening in the middle in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, that wasn`t covered under preclearance. BERMAN: No, what the Supreme Court should have said is Southern born barriers to the ballot box have moved north. So if anything we should expand the Voting Rights Act. HARRIS-PERRY: Like the great migration but in a slightly evil way. BERMAN: The great migration of voter suppression. And the central irony of that decision is when we needed the Voting Rights Act the most, the Supreme Court said we needed it the least. We should have recognized that Kansas, Ohio, Pennsylvania, these guys are doing a different version of what was done 50 years ago in the South, and that`s why we need expanded voter protections, and they should have said to Congress, draw a more expansive formula, don`t draw a more narrow formula for covering the states. And so the whole wave of voter suppression we saw in the 2012 election was completely ignored by the Supreme Court. HARRIS-PERRY: You mentioned Congress there. You were you in the same room with me on Thursday when the president was speaking, but maybe the most intense person who spoke was Representative John Lewis. Let`s take a moment and listen to him. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JOHN LEWIS, D-GA.: In spite of all of the changes, in spite of all of the progress, there`s a deliberate, systematic effort to make it harder and more difficult for minorities, for people of color, for low-income people, for students, for seniors to participate. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: So Ari, here is what I kept thinking, as I`m standing in the room looking, I`m thinking, well, there`s Congressman John Lewis. There`s President Barack Obama. There`s Attorney General Loretta Lynch. How in the world is it that we`re -- literally, what is the path that gets us to that level of political leadership being that diverse and a fight about voter rights happening at the same time that feels very dissonant? BERMAN: That is the paradox of our democracy right now, is that we do have all these people in the highest echelons of office who represent the promise of the Voting Rights Act. Barack Obama is the ultimate culmination of the Voting Rights Act. John Lewis is the ultimate culmination of the Voting Rights Act, and we`re having a new attack on voting rights precisely because of the progress that has been made. All of these Republican legislatures saw how Obama was elected, and they tried to target the very methods that led to this dramatic turnout, the most diverse electorate in American history in 2008 and then again in 2012. So it`s precisely because of the progress that we`re seeing the backlash, as well, that`s happened throughout American history and is happening today. HARRIS-PERRY: Ari, thank you so much and thank you for the book. Everybody should be reading this text and then also following your reporting, because this is a struggle that is ongoing. It`s not all between the covers, because obviously you`re covering the North Carolina case and other cases around the country. Coming up next, school discipline. Should handcuffs be used to discipline an 8-year-old? And on a much lighter note, the beats that broke the Internet. There`s more Nerdland at the top of the hour. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) MELISSA HARRIS-PERRY, MSNBC HOST: Welcome back. I`m Melissa Harris-Perry. July marks the 25 years since the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act. The law was created to protect people with disabilities from discrimination and employment, transportation governmental activities and public accommodation like public schools. And yet this week a video of an eight-year-old, a student being handcuffed as punishment. It is calling into question how the ADA is upheld or not upheld for children in our schools. According to a federal lawsuit filed Monday by the American Civil Liberties Union, a school resource officer handcuffed two small children both with disabilities as a means of punishment at Latonia Elementary School in Covington Kentucky. As part of its case against the Kenton County Sheriff`s Office and Deputy Kevin Sumner, the ACLU released a video of them handcuffing one of the children last year. Now, the video is recorded by a school staff and later obtained by the ACLU. We`re going to show you part of that video now and as you will see, the eight-year-old is handcuffed above the elbows and sitting in the chair crying. The adult you will see is Deputy Kevin Sumner but I also just want to offer a warning that this content is very disturbing. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KEVIN SUMNER, KENTON COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPUTY: You don`t get to swing at me like that. You can do what we`ve asked you to, or you can suffer the consequences. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) it hurts. SUMNER: Now, sit down on the chair like I`ve asked you to. It`s your decision to behave this way. If you want the handcuffs off you`re going to have to behave and ask me nicely, and if you`re behaving I`ll take them off. But as long as you`re acting up, you`re not going to get them off. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: The handcuffs remain on the child for 15 minutes according to the lawsuit, siting the school records. The lawsuit was said that the boy was enrolled in the 3rd grade, stood about three and a half feet tall and weighed 52 pounds. The second student at the school, a girl who was enrolled in the 4rth grade and weighs 56 pounds was allegedly handcuffed twice last year. According to court documents, the children have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or ADHD and special needs and were being punished for behavior related to those disabilities. One child in this case is Latina -- Latino and the other is African- American. The ACLU argues that handcuffing the children violates the Americans with Disability Act and in response, the Kenton County Sheriff`s Department released a statement saying in part, "Deputy Sumner responded to the call and did what he is sworn to do in conformity with all constitutional and law enforcement standards. The Attorney for Sumner said the deputy put the children in handcuffs because they were placing themselves and other people in danger of harm and that`s what the book says to do. According to the Department of Education, children with disabilities comprise 12 percent of students in public schools make up 75 percent of students restrained by adult nationally. This case was filed a month after the Department of Justice informed Georgia Governor Nathan Deal and Georgia Attorney General Sam Olens of a DOJ investigation in the state`s adherence to Title II with the Americans with Disability Act which prohibits discrimination against people with disability. And as we reported last week on this program, the DOJ found that when Georgia students with disabilities like autism or behavioral disorders share a school with other student, they are physically separated from their peers. Separate entrances, bathrooms, and sometimes separate school buildings. Sometimes these students are taught only with computer-based lessons other than learning from an actual teacher. What does these cases say about the quality of education for students with disabilities? Joining me now, Christina Greer, Assistant Professor at Fordham University. Tyler Brewster, restorative, practices coordinator at the James Baldwin School. Katon Dawson, national Republican consultant and South Carolina campaign director for Governor Rick Perry. And Thena Robinson-Mock who is the Project Director of the "Ending the Schoolhouse to Jailhouse Track" campaign for the advancement project. And in San Francisco, Matt Coles, Deputy Legal Director and Director of the Center for Equality of ACLU. So Matt, let me start with you. Tell me why the ACLU decided to bring this case other than the horrifying video that we just saw MATT COLES, ACLU DEPUTY LEGAL DIRECTOR: Right. The case wasn`t brought by because of the horrifying video at all. The case was brought because, last year according to Department of Education`s estimate, over 52,000 children with disabilities were physically restrained in school and over 4,000 of those children were placed in handcuffs. And it`s our belief that the way you deal with emotionally distraught children, particularly emotionally distraught children with disabilities is, you talk them down, you deescalate. Restraint is almost never appropriate and handcuffs are never appropriate. And we brought this case to begin rectifying what we think is a big problem. HARRIS-PERRY: So, let me ask a little bit of a question because obviously there`s legal strategy here, and so the case of this -- in this case is against this particular officer and the sheriff`s department but, I guess part of what I`m wondering is were they acting on behalf of the school, was the school like -- I guess I`m just wondering about the culpability or the possibility of the culpability of the school in this? COLES: I think they were acting at the request of the school. Part of what we want to highlight is, not only the inappropriateness of her strength for children with disabilities, but also what we think is a really serious problem with putting police officers in schools and using them essentially not for law enforcement purposes but for ordinary disciplinary purposes. And we think is another example of that. And that`s why we very much wanted to focus on the sheriff`s department and their role in this. HARRIS-PERRY: All right, stick with us, don`t go away. But I do want to go to the panel for a second. Thena, I want to come to you on this, because you`re talking about the -- the schoolhouse to jailhouse, sounds like -- or the jailhouse into the schoolhouse, like I didn`t even know about the ADA angle of this when I first saw the video. And, it just -- it`s literally sickening to see this happening. THENA ROBINSON-MOCK, ADVANCEMENT PROJECT: It is. It`s incredible. We really need to examine the role of policing schools. What we know is that police officers are not trained in how to address young people, particularly young people with disability. And we have a fundamental problem, when I watched that video, I`m looking at an officer that is poorly trained, I`m looking at an officer that shouldn`t have intervene in the first place, who in fact should not have been in there. So that`s something that we need to address, the role of police officers in schools, why are they here. HARRIS-PERRY: It`s interesting to say, when I look at that video, right? Because when you look at it, right? There`s this aspect of me that the placement of where the handcuffs are, as though, you know, if you have a child who is that tiny, that the handcuffs are on their biceps, but then also that the officers are thinking, well you can`t swing on me like that - - you`re choosing this, this is your fault. And I keep thinking, oh my God, this child is being traumatized and being told, it`s his fault for -- that he is being traumatized. ROBINSON-MOCK: Absolutely. And we are then going to expect that young person to be able to focus in class, after dealing with that kind of trauma. HARRIS-PERRY: Right. ROBINSON-MOCK: And that`s what -- we see this all the time with black and Latino youth, this is a systemic crisis. HARRIS-PERRY: Now, I`m wondering, I like this point about, now, expecting this student to go back to class and to read and concentrate. Now I`m thinking, and all the students, right? Because there`s also a kind of aspect of fear that this creates, because if this is -- and I can remember being afraid to go to the principal`s office, but if you think when you go to the principal`s office that this might happen -- right, right, right, how much more fear does that create for students. TYLER BREWSTER, JAMES BALDWIN SCHOOL: It -- what`s happening is we`re turning our schools into a place that`s not safe. Bottom line, it`s supposed to be a safe haven for all students, police should not be in schools, they have to roles -- it`s not necessary for them to be there. It heightens the fears, it creates unnecessary tensions and it`s turning our schools into jail houses. The things that students has to go through when they`re coming to learn, there`s no way you can focus if there`s an armed officer in your school building because... HARRIS-PERRY: But I remember how they got there, I remember in the 1980s when we put officers there -- well actually in the `80s there was this sense -- there were outsiders who want to come into the schools to harm, afraid of like the Joe Park (ph) movies, right? And so, you had that officer there because the kids needed to be safe, and then somehow like they`re bored, there`s not much to do, there`s actually not -- actually a schools usually a pretty safe place to be, right? So then they get turned back to policing the kids. CHRISTINA GREER, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: And get they turned at, to policing primarily black and brown kids. I mean when we look at the data, black girls are under attack in school. I mean the rate in which they`re arrested or have negative interactions with these police officers are actually astounding. HARRIS-PERRY: I agree (ph). GREER: So I mean -- of course and sassy and mouthy and all these things that teachers can`t control and a police officer needs to intervene. And so I think it goes to Thena`s point as well, not only he do not want to go back to class, you do not want to go back to school. HARRIS-PERRY: Right. And Katon, you know, part -- people may not know, you`re involvement in schools as kind of part of your story, right? Usually you`re here to kind of talk the electoral politics part. KATON DAWSON, SOCIAL REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Right. HARRIS-PERRY: But actually you`ve also been engaged with the variety of (inaudible) you`re trying to innovate what`s going on in our schools. What are you seeing when you look at this video? DAWSON: You know, what I see in this video is -- I represented a school in Ohio that has caught these kids that are coming out. A guy names Bill Logger (ph), he would go down as an American patriot, mortgage his house and start an electronic school online for the kids that were being dropped out of the schools. Over 50 percent -- or special needs kids, 82 to 87 percent free and reduced lunch. Largest graduating class in America is in Ohio but they had to go home to learn, not home schools with the new electronic technology. It`s a remarkable success story, bullied kids, children who are pregnant. It`s a remarkable story of innovation and education. But, let`s talk about the police in schools. You know they`re there for protection not there to assault you. I`m guy in 4th grade but just remember until right now teacher hitting me and knocked me out, because I was kid who couldn`t stay in my seat and talk too much in class. My mother did come take care of that for me thank goodness. But, at the end of the day, I remembered it when you brought it up, first time it flashed back to me, has this ever happened to me in school? So, when you`re talking about -- especially the interstate schools, Miami Dade and the other ones that we know about, there`s going to be some outrage from all communities about this, and I go back -- education is the bricks and mortar system, pick them up in the busses at 5:30 in the morning that`s -- where`s the outrage on that one? HARRIS-PERRY: Right (ph). DAWSON: If a kid goes to the street at 6:00 in the morning with their lunch bag. So, we got to look at that whole system right now. HARRIS-PERRY: All right, stick with me. Matt, I want to come back to you though before we go because I want to ask how powerful the ADA is going to be here for helping kids who are (inaudible) this question. Because, you know, obviously we`re just talking about the Voting Rights Act, the extension in which on the one hand it exists but it`s been deeply weakened. Is the ADA, the American with Disability Act strong enough, a 25-years-old, to actually make a difference in this question of policing in our schools? COLES: I think it is actually. You know, the ADA was weakened by the Supreme Court in a series of cases during its first years. But Congress weight in and toughened it back up in a number of ways. And, yes, I absolutely think the ADA is going to help us -- on the problem with kids with disabilities and cops in schools. HARRIS-PERRY: Thank you so much Matt Coles in San Francisco. Stay with us, we got more on the question of educations. Up next, one of the largest school district in the nation is eliminating out of school suspension. They`re staying the brick and mortar (inaudible) we don`t want them to be. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: 3.5 million public school students are suspended from school at least ones in a school year. Almost half of those are suspended twice or more. Out of school suspensions correlate closely with the lower test scores and higher dropout rates which have much to do with one`s ability to make a living and to stay out of the criminal justice system. So students are much more likely to be suspended than others. Almost a quarter of black, middle and high school students were suspended in the 2011-2012 school year. That`s more than three times the rate of suspension for white students. And students with disabilities are also much more likely to face suspensions in the general school population. So, how to end the disparity in our school suspensions? Well, you could just end out of school suspensions all together, and this year one of the largest school districts in the country Miami-Dade is planning to do just that. Joining me now from Miami, Florida is Alberto Carvalho who is the Superintendent of the Miami-Dade County Public Schools. All right, this is quite an initiative. Please let me know how -- the school system to make a choice to end out of school suspension? ALBERTO CARVALHO, SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY: Well, good morning number one Melissa, I think number one is driven by commonsense, second peer reviewed research that tells us that outdoor suspensions just don`t work. You know, the educational, societal and economic consequences that simple suspending kids without acknowledging the root cause or the problems that cause their behavior is pretty significant. We know as noted earlier that the disparities and the inequities in term of outdoor suspensions as they are assigned to students, specifically African- American black students versus their counterparts is a very significant. And then we are surprised us to why graduation rates are dispirit and the country. Look, African-Americans make up 16 percent of the student population across the country, 22 percent in the State of Florida and 23 percent in Miami. The reality is, that in terms of outdoor suspensions, they represent twice that percentage in any one level nationally in the State of Florida, the Miami-Dade. So, what should the best course to take? Number one, absolutely eliminate traditional outdoor suspensions and bring about a redefinition of disciplined that does not deprive a student of his fundamental right to continue his or her education. HARRIS-PERRY: Some interesting -- this idea of brining about a new understanding of discipline, you were actually recently invited to the White House to attend the "Rethink Discipline" conference. And it`s interesting we we`re just talking about policing in the schools, Miami-Dade actually has their own police department, can explain that to me a bit? CARVALHO: We do, I mean we attempt to strike a fair balance between safety and security and protecting the schools, the students and the teacher and actually providing a social effect of envelope that nurtures and protects the whole child. And so our police officers are trained not just to really, dull (ph) out law enforcement and arrest kids, they`re really trained to interact with students and be demystify the student-child relationship with law enforcement, something that the rest of American needs to learn from. So they are part social workers they are part police officers, much more work needs to be done. Secondly we have decided early on that putting kids out of school is just the not useful, it`s not grounded in good practice, so we created success centers where students that for a brief period of time need to be removed from that environment are still in educational environment with digital content, with social workers, with psychologist. They are perfectly trained and able to detect the early signals of behavioral issues and actually connect them with the appropriate social services. Doing something other than that is just inhumane. HARRIS-PERRY: Stick with us for a second Superintendent. I want to come you on this because this is one set of alternative, I wonder if there are other ways, you know, language about restorative justice, language that actually gets away from discipline, discourse (ph) at all about what`s happening between our students, our teachers and our school community. BREWSTER: Well we need to bring the community back into schools, somehow we got it mixed up and discipline became painful punishment, like that`s the idea. Discipline -- really discipline should be to teach or to learn and these are opportunities to show students how to be productive members of society. So restorative justice and an excellent opportunity is to do, it`s a community-based approach where all stakeholders get a table (ph). So parents, teachers, administrators, everyone is a part of the problem, and it just doesn`t become an issue between a victim and an offender but how can we work together to make this better? I think what the school system are doing right now is, they place all of the blame on you offender and we give all of our attention to the victim, and we don`t think -- there`s always a reason for negative, it`s a manifestation of a deeper need and we`re not taking the time to really look at the student and meet their needs particularly with special education, this students have IEP`s legal documents and say what they need, when they need it and if those needs are not being met, how can we then punish them for acting out when we haven`t given them exactly what have said in the document that they need? So education for everyone is important, students, teachers educating families about their right, so they can advocate for themselves and stand up when, you know, things are going wrong within the school system. HARRIS-PERRY: You know, are there models, ultimate models, we seem one here with Miami-Dade but are there are there other places that are showing of a different way to engage schools? ROBINSON-MOCK: Absolutely I mean we have seen a push in places across the country to shift away from a zero tolerance policy approach. And one thing I will say about the superintendent`s announcement in out of school suspensions, it really came about because of grassroots leadership on the ground, Power U Center for Social Change in... HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. ROBINSON-MOCK: ... Miami had been beating the drum around ending out of school suspensions for over almost a decade now. And, have asked for restorative justice initiatives. So I`m excited about this announcement because it gives the superintendent an opportunity to work with the community-based organization to put these kinds of models in place. HARRIS-PERRY: So, I like this idea because, you know, obviously, let me come to you for a moment Superintendent, you know, when I say, oh, you know, you got to go to the White House and talk about it but I loved the idea that your at the White House talking about it but it actually the initiative for it comes from the community itself. CARVALHO: You know, there so many people talking about this issue of alternatives to discipline, and they talked about it so much they actually believed they do something. So, we decided to do -- and by the way a lot of folks talking about it and what`s needed in education and not really understanding much about it but they too believe that they are part of the educational reform movement, but that`s the different story. Look, I think we were at the White House as a recognition of two things, number one, we lead the state of Florida in terms of civil citations that`s alternative to student arrest be reduced, youth arrest by 41 percent in just 4 years. But then we wanted to go deeper and we know that there are behavioral causes that lead to dramatic consequences that often populate the juvenile justice system, they can`t eliminated by simply rooting out outdoor suspensions. And, the previous speaker is absolutely right, this is not an Alberto Carvalho or the school board, you know, initiative singularly, this is a result of many community conversations often lead by youth organizers who have felt the pain of outdoor suspension and incarceration. We can do better, and the fact that, look we just approved the budget that adds 60 counselors and social workers to school without hiring one single additional police officer. We`re shifting the investment in terms of more prevention and less satisfaction with investing on remediation or the consequence. HARRIS-PERRY: Thank you to Alberto Carvalho in Miami, Florida and we are definitely going to keep our eyes on what the school year looks like for you. Here in... CARVALHO: Thank you very much. HARRIS-PERRY: ... New York -- thank you, and here in New York, thank you to Christina Greer and to Tyler Brewster and to Katon Dawson and to Thena Robinson-Mock. And up next, we`re going to Ferguson, Missouri for update on events planned this weekend in the memory of Michael Brown. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: This weekend the City of Ferguson marks one year since the shooting death of Michael Brown by a former Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson. Events commemorating the day kicked off yesterday in the city and will be continuing through Monday. Earlier this morning a walk in Mike Brown`s memory began at the site of the shooting on Canfield Drive and ended at Ferguson`s Normandy High School. Today`s event will end later this evening with the Ferguson Rock`s concert and will commence again tomorrow with the moment of silence at 11:55 a.m. local time, to mark the moment of the shooting. MSNBC reporter Amanda Sakuma has been following the anniversary remembrances and joins me now from Ferguson, Missouri. Amanda what have you`ve been hearing from people in Ferguson this morning about how they`re feeling at this time? AMANDA SAKUMA, MSNBC REPORTER: Good morning Melissa. They say that this anniversary is really an opportunity for both sides, be it state and local legislatures or leaders and the activist movement, to really assess what changes has been made in Ferguson in the last year since Michael Brown`s death. Missouri Governor Jay Nixon was in town yesterday speaking to the concrete action that has been made notably, people legislation that did municipal court reform that basically effectively cut down the policies to line the city`s coffer on the backs of residents. And so, this was a landmark so -- but they`re still staling on police reforms, we saw a bill go through the legislator that would have brought body cameras to police departments across the state that`s stalled. There is another piece of legislation on that use a deadly force. That also didn`t go anywhere. And so many of the activist and legislators I`ve been talking to over the last days say they`re a bit frustrated to watch other deep red states like Texas for example implement body cameras legislation be at the birth place of the "Black Lives Matter" movement can`t do the same. They do say that they`re asking for caution for people to wait for, these are long deep seated changes that need to be implemented here. And so these events that are happening over the rest of the weekend are really celebrating the birthplace of this movement and also pressing for more change. HARRIS-PERRY: Yeah, it is hard to imagine that -- I mean we have seen body cameras which feels like this sort of a first step even in accountability implemented across the country and that they wouldn`t be coming to Missouri. SAKUMA: Many people are very frustrated by this and they say that those municipal (ph) reform bill was very historic. It also is low-hanging fruit in the eyes of many legislatures here who says this was a problem that has been pledging (ph) for generations and that it really should have been addressed long before this. Now there was a leadership mix up, a shakeup we did see, many leaders did stepped down in the wake of the really stating (ph) Department of Justice report that came out in the spring time. But since then we`ve only had interim leaders come to power, we haven`t seen anyone do any type of who sell (ph) change, activists have been trying to oust the mayor of Ferguson and they tried to do a formal recall effort but we`re unable to gather enough signatures. And so really this is kind of the mid-way point of these systemic changes that they`re trying to implement. But I think activist are trying to -- having a difficult time working from within a system and they`re trying to figure out a way to disrupt it from outside. HARRIS-PERRY: Yeah, one year later the struggle certainly does continue. Thank to Amanda Sakuma in Ferguson, Missouri. And tomorrow on MHP, we will have much more from Ferguson as the city and the nation marked one year since the death of Michael Brown. Tune it for that. But up next, the rise of NWA with the stars "Straight Outta Compton". (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: Next week, the highly anticipated biopic of "Straight Outta Compton" will finally be out in theaters. The film which is produced by our parent company Universal takes viewers back to 1986 when a fire rappers from Compton California got together to form hip-hops iconic group NWA. And the film revealed how through the music and the searing lyrics and artistry of these young men they decided to take a stand to speak up and to rebel against a particular kind of authority. Yesterday I got a chance to speak with the lead actors from the film including O`shea Jackson, Jr. son of the original NWA member Ice Cube. I asked him about portraying his father and about the state of modern hip- hop. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) O`SHEA JACKSON, JR, NWA RAPPER: My father`s philosophy on this whole thing is that at a certain point in the `90s all the media outlets as far as, you know, rap goes, at a certain point knocked out the artist who had, you know, something to say or, you know, where speaking on politically issues, if you will, and it turned into, you know, the money music, you know the rams. And that starts to get played on the radio only, and then so those who want a career in music think that this is the model of which they should go. And so that, you know, begins to really filter out all those groups that have something to say that are speaking to the people in a different manner. But you still have artist today, you know, Kendrick is one of them, Jay Cole, Sean, they got something to say, you know, they`re working to inspire they`re speaking on issues. And, you know, they as artist find the balance within it. And, you know, that makes them stand up. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: And that young men looks like his father, you can see the rest of my interview with the "Straight Outta Compton" cast during tomorrow`s show at 10:00 a.m. eastern. Up next, a modern day rap story. Only in 2015 do hip-hop beefs start and end on Twitter. But who won? Drake or Meek Mill? Is this a beef? I don`t even know. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: By now you`ve heard about the feud that launched a thousand memes, that`s right we`re taking about (inaudible) as Drake, Meek Mill beef. I can`t believe this is happening. For those of you who have not been following the breaking rap news, here`s a recap. It all started two weeks ago when South Philly rapper Nicki Minaj`s bae and the former Drake partner Meek Mill Twitted this at Toronto rapper Drake. "Stop comparing Drake to me. He don`t write his own raps that`s why he twit my album because we found out." Drake remained silent about the accusation for a few days. Meanwhile Meek continued to make his case on Twitter adding this about Drake`s verse on Meek`s new single. "He ain`t even write that verse on my album and if I woulda knew I woulda took it off my album. I don`t trick my fans. LOL." Man, you know you got some serious beef when you write LOL at the end you twit after four days. (Inaudible) rapper couldn`t hold back, he released two disk tracks, first there was the three-minute song "Charged Up" and then came the free style many critics have credited with ending the feud back to back. Either track addressed Meek`s claims that Drake does not write his own rhymes but he did attempt to take a few swings that Meek`s musicality by harping on Nicki Minaj`s success, referring to Meek`s opening performance for Nicki Minaj`s Pink Print tour. One of Drake`s back to back versus reads, "You love her, then you got to give the world to her tour", is that a world tour or your girl`s tour. Another line implies that Nicki is the boss who wipes Meek and recommends that she "Hit `em with the prenup." But Drake was not done. Monday night during his appearance at 6th Annual Ovo Fest, Drake performed back to back in front of a projection of fan made anti-Meek memes, you know you`re (inaudible) when you put the memes up including one claiming that (inaudible) goes right for Meek and another offering Meek a participation award for this track. Want to know which fell flat a week ago. Critics have agreed that the OVO performance shutdown the whole debate and Drake even posted his victory picture of him smiling. (Inaudible) after the Monday performance on Instagram. Sean Malcolm: Oh man. HARRIS, XXL MAGAZINE, CONTRIBUTING WRITER: It`s all very entraining. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS: Right, right, right. But it can be hard to tell, what is at stake in this new form of hip-hop beef that now trigger finger has turned into Tweeter fingers. Joining me now to unpack all these, Sean Malcolm contributing writer for XXL Magazine. Toni Blackman MC author, hip-hop educator and I love this title, the first officially U.S. hip-hop ambassador. Damon Young, Editor- in-Chief of the digital magazine "Very Smart Brothas" and Penny Wrenn, freelance journalist and writer of "Penny For Your Thoughts" at Men, I love having you all here but let`s just begin with this. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It matters. HARRIS-PERRY: Sure, right. But like, I don`t know, when Drake is hardest rapper in the game and he`s with the first prince celebrating about it. It just -- I`m having a little--am I too old of something, what is going on? SEAN MALCOLM, JOURNALIST: Wow. I don`t even know where to start. You know, this beef -- well, you want to call it a beef is definitely put some energy in Hip Hop because it`s been lack-luster as of late. HARRIS-PERRY: And I do know "Back to Back". I mean, let me be very clear. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: It`s a great track. MALCOLM: It`s definitely -- it`s kind of long (ph) song but like, you know, Hip Hop been kind of like, lately, so this definitely had given us a reason to actually listen to songs. TONI BLACKMAN, RAPPER: And then my question would be, is he the hardest or is he the smartest. MALCOLM: You bet was the smartest. BLACKMAN: Because what he didn`t came with the art of war. HARRIS-PERRY: Right. BLACKMAN: He has state of art of war techniques. DAMON YOUNG, VERY SMART BROTHAS : And the thing is, Meek Mill, he is not equipped with skills necessary to really perform well in this type of beef, because he`s not witty, he`s not known for being clever, he`s not known for having punch lines, he`s not known for... MALCOLM: Be careful, he might actually want to tweet you. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: But, you know, who is--you know, who has the skills in known for being clever, is terribly fascinating as emcee is Nicki. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. HARRIS-PERRY: Right? But because, right, because when Drake goes for me, he goes for him by saying, "Nicki is better than you." And (inaudible) she is, right? (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: Right, she`s better than most human, right? So I don`t think... UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he`s better than Drake. HARRIS-PERRY: Right, I know, right. So I just want to say, what I want to see is that Nicki-Drake battle, right... UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right, right, right. HARRIS-PERRY: But it feels like she now can`t because there`s a masculinity of her partner associated with this. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it`s not her battle to fight. HARRIS-PERRY: Oh, just because (inaudible). UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. (CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She became like the (inaudible) of pop business. HARRIS-PERRY: And I mean she`s Nicki Minaj. She cannot be someone`s choice. She`s -- right? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. Right. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, to me, that`s the only point Meeks should have main in his comeback thing like why -- how is it a dis... UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s I`m with the power for woman. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She didn`t dis me my saying boss women, right, so you`ll have -- let`s -- so what. HARRIS-PERRY: Wait. And especially when like Drake video with Rihanna in "What`s My Name" was like basically like a domestic bliss video in which the expected (ph) things to happen. I think Rihanna washes a wine glass, right. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: No. I mean, down for Black Lives and for like (inaudible) in the kitchen wine glass washing. I`m just saying it`s really bizarre. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it`s perpetuates this idea that a woman can`t be strong, smart, view (inaudible) and attractive to a man. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this idea of the man... HARRIS-PERRY: Without threatening his masculinity. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And man`s worthiness is based upon him leading to have more than this one. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And... PENNY WRENN, MADAMENOIRE.COM: I`m sorry. But the thing to me was that, it`s Drake who says that I just wish we all had reacted the way we did in that particular line into that particular (inaudible). Everyone had been line, "Hey, you know, what a fall of sled", right. YOUNG: And let`s keep it real too. A lot of the people that are on Twitter and on Facebook, a lot of the man who are getting at Meek Mill who are being like woman, (inaudible) to them are tweeting from their girlfriend`s laptop. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: Yes, they are. (CROSSTALK) YOUNG: So let`s keep it real. HARRIS-PERRY: So let`s go back all the way to the initiation though of the beef, which is about this, I mean, I read it as a -- being about the open city of voice (ph), right? So it`s about whether or not you write your own rhymes. But I guess what I`m interested in this -- in the world that music is right now. Does that matter anymore, this idea of having to write your own rhymes? YOUNG: No, in 2015, it doesn`t matter at all. It did for me in, you know, and that came up, you know, the Big L, Big E, Nas, Jay Z, Wu-Tang, and for me, that`s type of accusation should be damning but it`s not. (CROSSTALK) BLACKMAN: Wait. This is on your perspective. I come from a cultural perspective, in Hip Hop music in culture. That`s what I like to think I represent. A lot of the Hip Hop hits, I know they never consider Drake an emcee before Nas. Like Drake got his emcee status right now. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: Because he was in a battle. YOUNG: He`s entertainer. (CROSSTALK) MALCOLM: An Instagram model too. HARRIS-PERRY: So are those well-earned creds, right? So I like this idea that he`s now shifted that maybe now we see him as something different, but he`s a well-earned. He`s a well-earned. BLACKMAN: Is he well-earned, I don`t know this well-earned because he was all strategy, he was all smart, was he really lyrical prowess, was he lyrical genius. I had this debate all week with my partner. MALCOLM: It`s also the testament of like what`s going on in Hip Hop right now like (inaudible) nobody out there that`s stands out. So OK, I`m going to sing and rap, so that would makes me better than everybody else. YOUNG: Yes. And... HARRIS-PERRY: Although -- let me just (inaudible), there maybe a new authenticity game that isn`t part about that kind of strategy in acumen, right? The part of what we see with the transition of Dre with the transition of Jay Z, what is the very idea... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: ... right, to be Hip Hop is to be capable of -- because to come up with "Back-to-Back", I mean, part of what he did was to create something that when you play that in the club. I mean, you have to play that in the club because it is a fabulous... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: Look at how he released it on the day of that baseball game against Phillies... MALCOLM: the World Series. HARRIS-PERRY: The World Series. I mean, he really... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: Jay Z is one of his models. MALCOLM: Right. YOUNG: Yes. HARRIS-PERRY: So he took the Jay Z model post to the (inaudible) -- maybe he had notice that Jay Z has a (inaudible) powerful vibes too. Up next, still on rapper, Ice Cube talked about the new school district. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ICE CUBE, RAPPER: This is classic Hip Hop. I loved it. You know, I love the beefs. Its how, you know, Hip Hop came into the forefront. You know, I grew up with LL (inaudible) going at it, you know, so beefs is a part of Hip Hop. It`s great to see guys spar on the record, you know, the key is keep it on the record. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: That was Ice Cube, a former member of N.W.A, the 1980`s Hip Hop group that inspired the upcoming biopic "Straight Outta Compton". So all right, so it`s true, I mean, and (inaudible) I mean... UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. Right. HARRIS-PERRY: And now, apparently, the rapper commonly known as Mos Defs and Lupe Fiasco are going to do their thing. So (inaudible) like what are you guys think about Mos Defs and Lupe Fiasco, what`s that going to look like? MALCOLM: So, this was interesting that honor of battling of the emceeing again. BLACKMAN: I think -- what I think -- there`s a return of the art of emceeing. And I think that`s its happening slowly and gradually and this beef between Meek Mill and Drake... MALCOLM: If you want to call it that... BLACKMAN: Well, this battle of chant... HARRIS-PERRY: Chant, OK. BLACKMAN: The level of battles in not really... MALCOLM: Is not really a big deal. (CROSSTALK) YOUNG: It`s a miss understanding. (CROSSTALK) MALCOLM: In the grand scheme of debate like this hasn`t even crack top five... BLACKMAN: And neither one of them really came with it, as far as I`m concerned, either one of them came with it. Drake, if you look in the history of battle rhymes... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: Right. So and also help with that, right, because I know, you know, my mom is very committed to watching the whole show all the way through every Saturday. So right now she is like, "What just happened?" right? (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: So how was that -- what are -- if you had to do a top five, what would they look like? MALCOLM: LL Cool J (inaudible)... HARRIS-PERRY: Undoubtedly. MALCOLM: Jay Z-Nas... HARRIS-PERRY: Yes, that`s (inaudible). YOUNG: Biggie-Pac... MALCOLM: Biggie-Pac of course. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: Everybody is going for that one like keep the beef on the records, not just... MALCOLM: But I guess you could thrown in Ja Rule and 50 Cent... HARRIS-PERRY: JA Rule and 50... (CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. HARRIS-PERRY: So -- all right... YOUNG: Well, 50 and Kanye too, because they had that -- it wasn`t... MALCOLM: But that was fun though. YOUNG: It was a fun... MALCOLM: You know, they had Rolling Stone like they had them hand up... HARRIS-PERRY: So let me show to you... YOUNG: It was a competitive thing. HARRIS-PERRY: Let me just back a little bit from the battle of it all. And just think about all of the different things what Hip Hop is. And, you know, I was struck. I had an opportunity to talk with the cast of "Straight Outta Compton". And, you know, I have (inaudible), you know, we heard they were reproducing, these are young man who were children or maybe not even are alive during, you know, the rebellions in South Central for which that music was a soundtrack. Is Hip Hop providing the soundtrack that is necessary for the Black Lives Matter movement? In the broader sense, is it doing the work of helping to -- there are a lot of young people in Black Lives Matter who love Hip Hop in a variety of ways. But I`m wondering if it`s... BLAKCMAN: What a challenges (inaudible) when they hear about the (inaudible) launch, in there is actually cons when happening this weekend (inaudible) and a bunch of artist who are organizing. And challenge is, how do we put the debt, like the next battle really needs to be "Drake, yo waddup, why aren`t you focusing, why haven`t you said anything about Ferguson... HARRIS-PERRY: Right. Which is different than that (inaudible). BLACKMAN: Come at him with 16 bars challenging to actually come with tow. MALCOLM: You know, but there had been emcess to a, you know, Kendrick`s (inaudible). I say here is that -- (inaudible) a piece how out "Alright" is the new black national anthem, because you hear in the clubs, it`s a song that makes you feel better and.... BLACKMAN: Even that`s a Black Liver Matter convening... MALCOLM: Yeah. BLACKMAN: That became like big -- like Kendrick provided like a song, for 500, 5,000 black people that put their fist in the air. MALCOLM: I mean, you hear about all the (inaudible)... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: So I know you all (inaudible) because I`m back to where we begin which is Drake (inaudible)... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: And Hip Hop is dead and so we`re all have to have (inaudible)... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: I feel sad. Like is Kendrick is (inaudible), I feel very sad because (inaudible). (CROSSTALK) WRENN: To me, let`s just celebrate, guys, that Hip Hop is now worth it. YOUNG: Yeah. WRENN: That we can celebrate the idea that Hip Hop is pop music. (CROSSTALK) WRENN: Hip Hop has song writers aka ghostwriters (inaudible) Mariah Carey and it also has Nirvana. Hip Hop... BLACKMAN: I think we also have so start... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: And I`m down, is that Hip Hop, then it`s great. BLACKMAN: But we have to start creating spaces, there are some really, really talented brilliant artist who have something that (inaudible) something to say. And there is the -- it`s problematic when those artist don`t get a platform to say one thing. When they exist, it`s almost like the female emcees, Nicki Minaj is great, but I know about twin Nicki Minaj (inaudible) great because rock the mic in the club and where are they? They are invisible women. HARRIS-PERRY: So it`s going to be able love when I heard from (inaudible) and we`ll play this whole thing tomorrow. But apparently, huge analysis about sort of the changes Hip Hop structurally, it`s not the emcees are wack, it`s that the music industry change what it provided space for. And I think your point about women emcees is clear that, you know, we constantly hear that these course are now, "Oh, Hip Hop is bad for women, it`s misogynistic." And my thing is, well, I don`t want to tell the boys what to say or not say but I want to hear more girl voices, right? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. HARRIS-PERRY: And I don`t need boys to put me on the (inaudible) and make a what. I just want to hear more women and the sound and tenor and tone, or whatever story (inaudible) tone, which might uplifting, or sexy, or political, or whatever they are, but they be ours, right? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. HARRIS-PERRY: I just feel like I`m lifting that. YOUNG: Yeah. I agree. And, you know, when you think of the genesis of Hip Hop, I mean, or rap music in general, you know, it`s hard to escape the misogyny, it is. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is. YOUNG: It`s not even just an annoying part. It`s a foundational or... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: It`s the third syllabi, yes. YOUNG: Indestructible. BLACKMAN: But we have to be clear about why. I mean, the world the we live in is a misogynistic world. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: I would also say you also give a credit for like America or Wall Street, or... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes, Hip Hop is not (inaudible). YOUNG: And we have to continue to do the work to help try to strike that. You know, and especially as, you get older and your politics get more progressive and you have a family, you get a little bit more mature. And you have this cognitive business with the music you listen to and... MALCOLM: And don`t want to hear 2 Chainz is enclose. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: What I love about your world is that, in your world, as you get older, you politics get more progressive. YOUNG: Yes. Yeah. HARRIS-PERRY: I`m just saying that... YOUNG: And your taste change as well. HARRIS-PERRY: I just -- in many people`s world, as I get older, their politics actually become less progressive, so that`s it`s a nice way of thinking that actually maturity might comes at your progressiveness and higher level of feminism. I mean to that. (CROSSTALK) MALCOLM: No, but it does so with the level because, you know, they do have to (inaudible) they have to make money. So it`s almost like, if it`s not broke, don`t fix it. (CROSSTALK) MALCOLM: No, it`s unfortunate but this is where is at. BLACKMAN: Is Jay Z unbrilliant (ph) enough to says what he says... (CROSSTALK) BLACKMAN: Jay Z can talks about clean water for 16 bars and make that bar about needing clear water so hot, right? We walk into the hoods talks about on this clean water. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: About to get real in there land. Thank you to Sean Malcolm, Toni Blackman, Damon Young and Penny Wrenn. We just had a clean water freestyle on... (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: That`s our show for today, thanks to you at home for watching I`m going to see you tomorrow morning at 10:00 A.M. Eastern, we have a very special show plan. We have extensive coverage in Ferguson, a year after the death of Michael Brown. Plus, my exlusive interviews with Attorney General Loretta Lynch and the cast of "Straight Outta Compton". They`re not in the same -- they didn`t -- they weren`t together, that was a finance of stake. Now, it`s time for a preview "Weekends with Alex Mitt". Hi, Alex. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END