IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

Melissa Harris-Perry, Transcript 06/07/15

Guests: Amanda Saab; Briana Curry; Swin Cash; Jason Page; Tamara Draut;Anand Giridharadas, Mara Keisling, Cherno Biko, Carlos Maza, Corey Feldman,Hannah Simpson, Trameka Pope

MELISSA HARRIS-PERRY, MSNBC HOST: Plus, the uneven playing field in sports. And Corey Feldman, also known as mouth of the goonies is coming to Nerdland. But first, addressing inequality in America. Good morning. I`m Melissa Harris-Perry. In 2016 it`s populism, populism, populism as candidates vie for the title of man or woman of the people. And this time the Democrats have some competition. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To the one in five children in families who are on food stamps, to the one in several en Americans living in poverty, to the one in ten workers who are unemployed, underemployed or just giving up hope of finding a job, I hear you. You are not forgotten. MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But power, money and political influence have left a lot of Americans lagging behind. They work hard. They lift heavy things and they sweat through their clothes grinding out a living. But they can`t seem to get ahead or in some cases stay even. RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As Middle America is hollowing out we can`t sit idly by as big government politicians paycheck it harder for our workers and then turn around and blame them for losing jobs overseas. Working people don`t need another president tied to big government or big money. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton is harkening back to the new deal planning a major vision speech this week at the FDR memorial in Roosevelt Island in New York. On monument, it commemorates Roosevelt`s four freedoms -- freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from fear and from want. Her competition for the nomination is all well from her left. So if she wants to channel FDR, she better bring it. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today we stand here and say loudly and clearly enough is enough. This great nation and its government belong to all of the people and not to a handful of billionaires. MARTIN O`MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And we cannot and will not rebuild the American dream at home though by catering to the voices of the privilege and power for. Let`s be honest, they were the ones who turned our economy upside down in the first place. And they are the only ones who are benefitting from that. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: OK. So, this is interesting, right? Because except for the little D or the little R in the corner, you may not know if you are listening to a Democrat or Republican speaking. Why are we hearing this from all sides? Maybe because right now in this moment this is what they think people want to hear. Because even as the economy continues to recover adding an impressive 280,000 jobs last month, make it the best month for job growth this year, that recovery is nothing felt equally. A recent poll by "the New York Times" and CBS have found that two-thirds of Americans believe that wealth should be more evenly distributed. Sixty- five percent believe that the gap between rich and poor must be address right now. Fifty-seven percent believe the government should explicitly be trying to close that gap. It`s clear now that income and wealth and equality are getting increasing attention from the American people and have been for several years. That attention was jump started by the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011 and sustained through protests for higher wages. Recent incidents of alleged police brutality that drew national focus to deeply unequal American microcosms like Baltimore. Now, the electorate wants something done and the nation`s would-be leaders need to present their plans. Joining me now, Tamara Draut who is vice president of policy and research at DEMOS. She`s also working on writing a book right now about the new working class to be published by Doubleday in April of 2016. Raul Reyes, attorney and contributor to And Anand Giridharadas, who is columnist for "the New York Times" and author of the book "the true American, murder and mercy in Texas." It is so nice to have you all here. Let me start this ad tune in to the Nerdland table here, we have talked a lot about the 99 versus one percent as a kind of way of thinking about inequality. But you have written recently that don`t you think the 99 versus one is kind of the wrong way to think about it. There is a different way to think about what these multiple American realities are. ANAND GIRIDHARADAS, COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I think it excuses too many of us who are not necessarily in the one percent but are still living in a successful country. The way I think about it is, you know, I think 20, 30 percent of Americans still live in an America that`s the most successful society if the history of the world. Worked for world class institutions, have a certain amount of access to hospitals, insurance, a good life, good universities. But I think two-thirds or three-quarters of us are living in a different America that`s actually now decisively a second world country without realizing it. And if we mischaracterize the problem as hedge funders stealing a little bit of money from are the rest of us, I actually don`t think we understand the extent of institutional decay and civilizational decay in the kind of bottom two-thirds or three-quarters of the country. HARRIS-PERRY: It is an interesting point to say this idea of the 99 percent, that result to me was in part a political strategy to draw in more people because you know, so you might be in the 70 percent but not in that one percent. But it is an interesting point that in drawing in the greater coalition, it might also obscure just how big those gaps are for an even broader proportion of people. TAMARA DRAUT, VICE PRESIDENT OF POLICY AND RESEARCH, DEMOS: I think Anand and is exactly right. I mean, the degradation that so many workers, most workers in America have suffered in the last two decades is extreme, you know. The reality is the difference between having a college degree and not having a college degree is enormous now. People don`t live on the same blocks. They don`t interact with each other. HARRIS-PERRY: I tell my students, just military crawl across the finish line, guys, like it is not the same job market it may have been in the 90s for college grads, but it is a bulwark against so many economic bad, yes. DRAUT: The majority of workers and the majority of jobs, the largest jobs that are growing in America are working class jobs. So from health aides, their childcare workers, the janitors, the retail sales, those are the jobs that are adding the most to the economy now. And they don`t require a college degree. And they don`t provide a life of dignity and well-being. HARRIS-PERRY: It`s interesting point, this idea that when we talk about jobs, you know, there used to be a discourse for all that. All of those kinds of jobs, the one that don`t require a college degree were gone. But in fact, in a service of economy, they are not gone. They are here. But they don`t provide the same kind of life. My grandfather on my mother`s side never graduate from college, never went to college, but he was a delivery truck driver. He sold Chryslers for a long time and was able to buy a home. His wife, my grandmother never worked for, you know, for wages outside the home, and they raised five kids, most of who went to college. I just can`t even fathom such a thing. RAUL REYES, CONTRIBUTOR, NBCNEWS.COM: Right. And I think that -- I think that type of story is not uncommon. My grandfather was largely the same way. And for most of his life he was undocumented. But he always on his owned home, he had seven kids, they all went to college. But I think for families today, there is so much in security. Even those able to go to the college, they still face a difficult job market. But I think part of the problem is that it`s not just our system. It is the way we look at it with a type of, I would say, a paralysis because people are frustrated in terms of with a do we do. But the fact is, you know, looking at our system at the macro level, when you factor out things like our tax policy and our government spending policies, structurally, our economy isn`t set up for a type of inequality we have. We are more like European economies. So the fact is at least at the theoretical level, the good news is that just as we created a lot of this income inequality with our policies, we can change it. But the question is it`s a political question. Are we willing to do it? Do we have the courage to do it? And what type of country do we want to live in? HARRIS-PERRY: Anand, the way you asked the question in your recent "New York Times` piece, I thought is -- I was like, this is the political dynamite we don`t want to touch which is a question of the resources that any individual family has, how much go to your kids and how much do go to everybody else`s kids. And I was like, man, let me just tell you. When you frame it like that, people are not -- the answer that many want to answer is everything. Everything I have goes to my children and none to other people. GIRIDHARADAS: And I think I have had the fortune in life spending a lot of time in a lot of different countries, countries that are very unequal, countries that very equal, countries that are very poor, and very rich. HARRIS-PERRY: And you were born in Cleveland. GIRIDHARADAS: Which is sort of a developing world. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. GIRIDHARADAS: And one of the things that you see in the least successful places on earth is that rich and poor people don`t just have income inequality. They live parallel different lives. And they want everything for their own kids and don`t care about other people`s kids. And we are becoming in our mentality if not in the per capita GDP, a developing country in that way. HARRIS-PERRY: That notion is one I want to dig into as we come back so I want to talk solutions. There are social solutions to this. There are policies. There are ways to address that. And before we go to break, I do want to give you an update on the update from the G-7 summit, specifically this question about nations and where they are in the world. That G-7 summit got under way this morning in the resort town in the Bavarian Alps. President Obama joined German chancellor Merkel and the leaders of the other G-7 nations for two days of talks on global economics, world health, and international security. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Over the next two days, (INAUDIBLE), we are going to discuss our shared future. The global economy that creates jobs and opportunity, maintaining a strong and prosperous European union, forging new trade partnerships across the Atlantic, standing up to Russian aggression in Ukraine, combatting threats from violent extremism to climate change. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: The Germans have deployed 17,000 police officers to provide security for the event. And yesterday, in advance of the summit some of the police clashed with thousands of protesters who were demonstrating against the G-7 and raising concerns on a range of geopolitical and economic issues. Up next the fight for 15 hits the heartland. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: As the push for higher wages continues St. Louis, Missouri, is looking to be the largest city to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Mayor Francis Slay is hoping to get the wage hike approved by the city`s board of Alderman next week and get wages up to about $15 an hour by 2020. But the city may face a major obstacle. The Missouri state legislature, you see the dominated -- the state house is dominated by Republicans who just passed a bill hoping to preempt the would-be wage hikers like Mayor Slay. The bill would prohibit any Missouri city from raising the minimum wage above the level set by the state currently at $7.65. Governor Jay Nixon, a Democrat, may veto the bill but Republican legislators have the numbers to override that veto. So we know something about the problem right? When we look at the Pew search center, we have this gap between middle and high -- so this is the 99-1 making this more complicated that the median wealth of the upper income families is nearly seven times that and we know that wealth is also stagnant. So Pew also telling us that we have this kind of stagnant wealth reality. In part all of this related to the issues of the mortgage melt down. So we know what the problems are. What are some of the solutions? DRAUT: Well, there are lots of them. I love that the Republican Party is embracing inequality and talking about it. But I can`t help, when I see Rick Perry -- HARRIS-PERRY: You`re not allowed to laugh, Raul. DRAUT: I see Rick Perry saying we remember you, the people on food stamps, the first thing that comes to mind, yes, but your answer is to cut food stamp funding. It`s not to raise the minimum wage. It is not to expand the earned income tax credit to childless workers. It is not to invest in universal affordable high quality child care. It is not to do any of these things that would actually help people who work hard and live a decent life and give their kids a decent life. HARRIS-PERRY: Some of the things and we start to get you as we to the end, so it is one thing saying $15 an hour. I think people understand why more money creates, you know, a better economic circumstance. But these other issues, everything from immigration reform to child care to reproductive rights are also economic issues and inequality issues. But they aren`t always packaged that way. REYES: Right. And you know, when we talk about this raising the minimum wage to $15, just as a point of reference, someone who earns $15 an hour and works 40 a week, you are still making $31,000. HARRIS-PERRY: Gross. REYES: Right. $31,000 in major cities like Los Angeles and, you know, St. Louis. So, I mean, it was not talking about a whole heck lot of money. But there are still other things, you know, like also we need more government regulation of the monopolies and the quality of monopolies. And then what I call the explosives because these things make Republicans make their head blow off which is a more progressive income tax or possibly even regulating the caps on the highest CEO levels of pay. Those are things that are nonstarters for Republicans. And so far although they are talking about income inequality, it`s really just, to me, a positioning of the message. It`s not substantive policies. They are co- opting a lot of rhetoric from the Democratic side. But they-- I don`t see them as embracing social safety net or change to a tax system to would benefit most people. GIRIDHARADAS: I don`t want to be the ambassador prosecute from Kumbaya here. HARRIS-PERRY: Why not? REYES: I love Kumbaya. GIRIDHARADAS: I think sometimes we miss very large historical turning points. The idea that every candidate you showed is talking about the issue is actually a big deal. And it`s a moment. And if we all a think this is a big problem, let`s first start by saying, maybe people on the left took cared about this issue more than the people on right. Let`s treat the people the new entrants on the right are as guests coming to your home. Pour them a glass of water, give them a nice place to sleep and let`s actually, maybe, exploit the opportunity to have an adult, two-party conversation in which we begin by acknowledging that the left has some so insights and some blind spots about this problem and the right has maybe some insights and some blind spots about the problem. HARRIS-PERRY: It`s such an interesting question, right? This idea of like so when we talk about populism that, how does it look, I can`t lead this conversation about both sides trying to do a kind of populist message without playing a little bit of Marco Rubio talking about rap music this week. And I promise I will pull it together. Let`s take listen for a moment. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your love of Wu Tan Clan. Do you have a favorite member? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can`t pick a favorite? SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That`s early `90s stuff. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who do you like now? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Who do you listen to? RUBIO: I don`t know -- listen to, yes. Not with my kids there, but Pitbull who lives in Miami is great. And I really still -- there is a Sirus XM channel station called backspin with all the stuff from the `90s. I don`t know. Maybe I`m getting old. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: So, this moment, right, he`s not talking about economics but he is doing this kind of populist, I listen to the stuff the kids listen to. And I guess what I want -- I want it to be what you are saying. I want to be new entrants. Everybody agreeing there is a problem in us dealing with it. But then when I see that moment like that I think this is just politics. This is just I`m going to do this thing in order to get, you know, voters to think I`m a regular guy or regular gal. GIRIDHARADAS: We see it on the left, too. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes, 100 percent. REYES: Hillary talking about being broke and Bill Clinton, talking about got to pay the bills. It`s an inauthentic way to presenting themselves as one of you. Even though history has shown, you can be a wealthy person like a Kennedy or Rockefeller and do all you want for social change. So, you know, economic policies. It is just that they feel this need to the present themselves in this particular way. GIRIDHARADAS: I mean, I think everybody is problematic or a lot of people are. It`s amazing in a cycle that as you point out maybe the most inequality populist centric cycle in decades, the standard bearer on the left is the perfect embodiment of (INAUDIBLE), connections, genuine merit and all of that stuff mixed together. And so, everybody as their stains. But if there is an opportunity to say, you know, we have liberal places in America like New York City. They haven`t figured out poverty. We have very conservative places like Alabama. They haven`t figured it out. So I don`t think anybody has a monopoly on it because even when they have 80 percent popular support, no one mixes it. We need a new kind of conversation. And I think it starts with understanding the way jobs are important to people with dignity and well-being. And on the other side how family, community connections are important to being able to live that economic prosperity. HARRIS-PERRY: That kind of full humanity (ph) and being able to name at least one member of the Wu Tan Clan if you claim they are your favorite group. Thank you to Tamara Draut and to Anand Giridharadas, also to Raul Reyes who is sticking around. Now we turn to the latest on the controversy around former house speaker Dennis Hastert. He is scheduled to be arraigned Tuesday on charges his structured a large bank withdrawals to avoid federal reporting requirements, the money allegedly going to pay off a man to cover up past wrongdoing which NBC News has learned was of a sexual nature. Hastert has yet to comment publically on the allegations stemming from his time as a teacher in Yorkville, Illinois. MSNBC`s Adam Reiss joins us now from Yorkville. Adam, what`s been the reaction in Hastert`s hometown? ADAM REISS, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Melissa, good morning. There is still plenty of people here in Yorkville who are standing by the former speaker. But there are others are starting to have doubts and starting to be disappointed as more revelations come to light. Now, in two days he`ll be arraigned. He remains in hiding. We haven`t seen him since his indictment a week ago. "The New York Times" reporting today that in 2010, he started to raise a lot of money. He was in a rush to get money to pay off this alleged person who is identified as individual A. He asked a colleague of his in his firm how he could get an annuity that would generate a lot of cash on an annual basis to pay this person off. According to the FBI, this was a person identified as individual A. That`s what we are learning. And that`s what with people here are saying that they are starting to have their doubts about him and his story -- Melissa. HARRIS-PERRY: Thank you to MSNBC`s Adam Reiss in Yorkville, Illinois. Up next, just on the heels of the scandal that rocked FIFA, the World Cup is already under way. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: The woman`s world cup kicked off yesterday in Edmonton, Canada. And things are looking good for Team USA, ranked number two in the world. The 7th women`s world cup will feature 24 teams for the first time. And one billion TV viewers are expected to tune in. Yet there is still a sense that the month-long tournament has been eclipsed by the other soccer story that has dominated headlines for more than a week. And that`s the sprawling investigation into FIFA, soccer`s governing body that uncovered decades of bribery totaling more than $150 million. On Tuesday, FIFA`s chief, Sepp Blatter, he announced his resignation just days after being reelected to a fifth term. But according to some, another type of misconduct is part of FIFA culture -- sexism. For one, women in the sport don`t get an equal playing field literally. This year`s world cup will be played on artificial turf. Conditions that male players don`t have are to face in their world cup. Players say the artificial turf leads to more injuries, (INAUDIBLE) and disrupt it is tempo of the game. Last year, there was 84 women players representing 13 countries sued FIFA and the Canadian soccer association citing gender discrimination saying that elite men`s teams would never be forced to play on an artificial surface instead of natural grass. The athletes proposed a compromise and came up with a solution to install grass on some of the fields at no cost to FIFA. But FIFA wouldn`t budge. In fact, this official response was, we play on artificial turf and there is no plan b. In January, the women withdrew the lawsuit in order to focus on preparing for the world cup. And then last month, star forward and Olympic gold medalist Alex Morgan told "Time" that Blatter didn`t recognize her at FIFA world player of the year event where she was a nominee for the award. She said I feel like I`m fighting for female athletes. FIFA executives and FIFA president Sepp Blatter didn`t know who I was. And I was being honored as top three in the world. That was pretty shocking. This behavior isn`t new for the man who has called himself the godfather of women`s soccer. In 2004 -- that`s actually making the guests laughed. In 2004, Blatter had a suggestion for women soccer players to increase the popularity of the game. Let the women play in more feminine clothes like they do in volleyball. For example, they could have on tighter shorts. Maybe then he`d recognize them. Joining me now is Swin Cash, two-time Olympic world medalist and three-time WNBA champion with the New York Liberty. Raul Reyes, an attorney and contributor to Jason Page who just cracked up at the idea are. (CROSSTALK) JASON PAGE, NBC SPORTS RADIO: I promise, America, no tighter shorts. HARRIS-PERRY: He`s on weeknights on NBC`s sports radio and joining us from Washington, D.C. is Briana Scurry, retired goalkeeper for the U.S. women`s national soccer team which won the world cup in 1999. Man, I don`t really know what to say except that was a lot. I mean, what it -- just how big a deal is it that there literally is not in an equal playing field. That women are going to play the world cup here on artificial turf? BRIANA SCURRY, RETIRED GOALKEEPER FOR THE U.S. WOMEN`S NATIONAL SOCCER TEAM: It is a really big deal, Melissa, because it is like you said earlier, there is no way that FIFA would ever even think about having the men`s world cup on artificial turf. And the fact they, not only went ahead and did it and then when the women objected to it just dismissed it outright, just goes to show you the mentality of FIFA that FIFA has had against women, with women for a very long time. And that determination to put our world cup, the biggest crown jewel of women`s soccer that`s one every four years on artificial turf is very disheartening and to be honest, is very disrespectful. HARRIS-PERRY: Also, I want to one more like soccer specific question here. So in 2011, the USA versus BRAZIL, that extraordinary game was actually watched by more people than the Kentucky derby. And "The New York Times" mentioned just a couple days ago that a men`s team coming off that kind of performance and TV ratings would have arrived home to several figure European club contracts and endorsement deals, but the U.S. women returned to a professional league that was on its death bed. Women`s professional soccer folded the following January. It was the second U.S. women`s soccer league to go bust since 1999. What in the world is going on with women and soccer here in the U.S.? SCURRY: It is very disheartening, Melissa. And the one thing that you have to understand is there are two different criteria for salaries and fees. So for the federation, the problem really is not only the league but the fact that the federation has the men`s team finish second in a world cup would have gotten bonuses in up upwards of $250, $500,000 per player. And I don`t know what the women got. But I can guarantee you it wasn`t $250,000 a player. I`m guessing at the most they got maybe $50,000 a player. And that`s five, ten times lower than what the men would have gotten. So right there is the original crime. And then, of course, you said coming home and no women`s league. The women`s league is completely disintegrating. That`s been an ongoing problem we have had in this country, trying to get the right formula to contain and maintain a women`s league. And we just haven`t been able to figure it out yet and it`s really unfortunate. HARRIS-PERRY: So, you know, Swin, this is not a problem that you are unfamiliar with in the sense of the WNBA and the ways those same kind of inequalities operate there. So much so that just this week, we have, again, "The New York Times" saying that maybe one of the ways to address this -- this is The New York Times op-ed, saying women would keep playing to half empty arenas, but you could inject excitement into the sport and get the athletes more exposure by lowering the rims. SWIN CASH, OLYMPIC WORLD MEDALIST: Lowering the rims, my thought on that, it`s very interesting because I still like when you make a statement like you lower the rims at the professional level, it trickles down to the grassroots level because you have younger -- I grew up playing against the guys. And we all played on the same basket, shot the same basketball. It wasn`t anything. But I feel that there is always some type of gimmick that they are looking for in order to improve the women`s game. Why is that? I mean, for so many years now we have had the best women in the world playing here in this country, dominant. I mean, in 2012, I was on the Olympic team. We were there for the fifth gold and we had to fight to try to get some press about that. We talk about the U.S. and how great we want to be, dominant and the best of everything. But when you have the best do you appreciate and respect the best? It doesn`t seem like it right now to me. HARRIS-PERRY: But are the shorts tight enough? CASH: Yes. You know, I mean, every year is like do we change up the uniform? What`s going on? PAGE: All right. But let`s understand. Why do they want to gimmick it up? It goes back to are people watching? Are people paying attention? HARRIS-PERRY: More people watched the 2011 game, the match, than watched the Kentucky derby. PAGE: OK. Don`t compare it to the Kentucky derby. There is this race every year. It`s the first of the Triple Crown races. The world cup is every four years. We have to cool it right there in terms of making those sorts of comparison. At the same time we say gimmick it up because not enough people are watching. How do we make people watch? How do you make the WNBA break into the baseball landscape that goes under that time of year then eventually the NFL? How do you break the barrier if you are the WNBA? I don`t know the answer. I`m as big a women`s basketball fan as anybody being from the state of Connecticut. But at the same time, it just can`t gain traction and I don`t know why at this point (INAUDIBLE). CASH: Gaining the traction also comes from how people are covering it. REYES: Exactly. But rather than changing the game which to me is what we are talking about with whip`s cup soccer in the sense like it`s making this separate but equal which we all know never really works out. What they should be doing is looking at the way it`s covered because -- I mean, the fact is part of the reason, one of the things that I hear people say about women`s sport is that, well, those games are boring or they are not exciting. And you know what? Maybe some people could say that and to an extent you could even agree with them. They are boring because you don`t see player profiles to get you invested in who they are. HARRIS-PERRY: Exactly. REYES: There is one wide shot and that`s it. You don`t have all of the types of, you know, bells and whistles that men`s sports have to make you care about the player, the journey, the team`s journey. All of that that we have in men`s coverage, that is nonexistent with women with. They have to get the coverage on their own, if they can. HARRIS-PERRY: Everybody, stick with me. And when we come back, I want to get into one of the biggest parts of this, the money. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: The women`s world cup has arrived kicking off to much fun fair yesterday at Edmonton. And with team USA ranking at number two, some are speculating that U.S. women are favored to end their 16-year world cup drought. Many are hoping something else will end as well. A perceived culture of gender in equality within the sport, U.S. club teams pay women between $6,000 and $31,000 per 20-week season but men pull at an average salary of more than $200,000 and can earn up to $7 million. There is a discrepancy too with the with prize money, a big one. Germany`s men`s soccer team won the world cup in Brazil last year, the players reward was prize money around $35 million. In 2011 japan women`s national team won the world cup in Germany, their prize money, $1 million. BBC are sports study into prize money found 30 percent of sports reward men more highly than women. Football, or as we call it soccer, was among the sports that had the biggest disparities in prize money. So Briana, I want to come back to you here because during the break I was trying to think up a solution to the problem of building audiences. My solution is in 2016 we go completely dark on all media coverage of men`s sports just for a year. We have the only televised sports, the only print sports is only women`s sport. And we just see whether or not women could get a fan base if, in fact, they were the people who were constantly on the televisions and in the newspapers. SCURRY: I`m not so sure the major sponsors would want to agree with that whole plan. But I appreciate the effort. (LAUGHTER) SCURRY: I appreciate the effort. No, but seriously, in response to the graphic about prize money, that`s a very interesting graphic to me because I remember, I played in four world cups. And I remember back in the day when we used to have to negotiate our contracts with the U.S. soccer federation. That was a very touchy subject for us. Because we thought, we deserved the same salary at the very least as the men. And eventually, we got something comparable. But what we didn`t get that comparable was the bonus money. And you know, they --like I said earlier, the men were making $250,000, $500,000 for maybe getting into the quarter finals, semifinals and we were expected to win our world cups and we weren`t getting anywhere near, you know, ten times, five times less for doing better. And also in having, you know, the history of winning a world cup in the past and still not able to come anywhere near the numbers the men were getting in that bonus money. And it`s a little bit unfair. And it`s more unfair because if you understand the structure of how the payments are made, the sponsorship money comes in to the federation. Right, they get sponsorship money. They get the money from FIFA. It`s not earmarked for men or women. It goes into the pot. And so, why not reward those who are doing their job with that money from the pot? HARRIS-PERRY: So Jason, you know, just as we are thinking about this, we were talking about it on the break, how do you break through it? I mean, let`s talk about the Williams sisters. And let`s talk about the idea, you have Serena Williams just winning. I mean, there was a moment women`s tennis was similarly marginalized. Now (INAUDIBLE) it`s not part of the televised American connection to these women as players. PAGE: Yes. I don`t disagree with you. And I mean, you look at what Serena and Venus did, though, for the women`s side of the game especially here in this country. And it is interesting to see how it is treated in this country versus the way it is treated worldwide. And there is clearly a difference between. Even in women`s basketball. The way it is treated worldwide versus the way it is treated here in the United States. We talk about this issue in terms of compensation. Why is it treated so much differently in Europe? And Asia and places like that versus the way it is here. What allows them to have a model able to pay people so much more and we weren`t able to do that. Why? CASH: Well, I can say one thing. It also has to start at the top. Who are the people making the decisions? For me, when I go into a sponsorship meeting, and we are trying to get a sponsor for the team, I look around the room and I`m like, I wonder if some of these people is have are a clue. Because one, do the people, do they look like you? Do they understand the game? Have they played at that level? Do they have someone in their ear that`s played at that level and understands? If we don`t start -- HARRIS-PERRY: Do they know about the young women who will buy these products because of their -- I think about my niece who was a star high school basketball player who, if any product had been connected with Swin Cash, she would have spent all her high school dollars on those products. CASH: And it is terrible because a lot of times our fan base, the younger fan base, they are looking for products. Why do you have to search to get your jersey? Why do I have to search to get, you know, something from Swin Cash, a book, this, that or the other. You go too utterly on the men`s side, they are throwing endorsements at them. And I`ll take it back to 2012, the women going for their fifth Olympic gold medal, the women`s basketball team. And you could see the difference in how the coverage was presented. It was like, they are going to win again. No, this is dominance. This is history. You want to be a part of it, you want tell the story. You want young girls to be happy that they are playing basketball. They want to be the next basketball player. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. When Michael Jordan was winning they weren`t like, oh, God, that guy. (CROSSTALK) HARRIS-PERRY: Thank you to Briana Curry in Washington D.C. Swin Cash and Raul Reyes is going to be back next hour. Also, thank you to Jason Page. And of course, we couldn`t do sports without telling you about the little horse that made history. American Pharoah, winner of the Kentucky derby and the Preakness, completed the ultimate sports trifecta yesterday at the Belmont stakes by commanding five-and-a-half lanes. Here is the call of American Pharoah became the first Triple Crown winner since 1978. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 37-year wait is over. American Pharoah is finally the one. American Pharoah has won the Triple Crown! (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: All the feeling. American Pharoah, only the 12th Triple Crown winner in horse racing history. For his owner he`s earned more than $4.5 million and could soon earn a lot more. After winning the Triple Crown, American Pharoah could be worth as much as $100 million, largely because of stud fees. Oh, America. Still to come this morning, the master chef contestant breaking barriers, but first the no button and why we have one, how we use it and who needs it most? (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: This is our no button. We keep it in the Nerdland offices for those times when what is being said doesn`t need a complicated retort. It just need a simple -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. HARRIS-PERRY: For example, my producer Eric who actually has a voice that sounds surprisingly like this will say something like let`s do a show where Melissa gets dunked into a water tank if she mispronounces a guest name. We don`t really need to discuss that. It just need a quick push of a button. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No! HARRIS-PERRY: Part of the fun of the button is you never know just which no they are going to get. There is. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No! HARRIS-PERRY: And then there`s. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: N-o. HARRIS-PERRY: Of course there is also -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No! HARRIS-PERRY: Yes, they`re good. The no button is the work of a company in Connecticut called Zany Toys. It is true a mom and pop shop. In fact, here are mom and pop engineers, Amy and Vinnie Tiernan and their three daughters. Now, Amy and Vinnie, as any parent out there knows, found themselves saying "no" a lot. And well, they simply wanted a short cut. In fact, maybe other parents could use one, too. Hence, the no button and all of its practical uses which brings me to Chester Hayes, aka, Chet Hayes, son of Oscar winning actor Tom Hanks because Chet Hayes -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, no. HARRIS-PERRY: That`s it. We don`t really need more. It`s simply not going deep on this one. In case you didn`t know this already, last weekend Chet Hayes who is something of a rapper posted this note on Instagram. Check out the song me and my n-word at chill that dude just dropped. -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No! HARRIS-PERRY: I mean, let me just channel Jay Smooth here because, no. I mean, that`s it. I`m not going deep on whether or not white people can use the n-word or if it matters if you use the n-word in the form that e-r versus the a, a-z or -- the, no. Just, no. And yes, I saw the explanation that Hayes, aka Hanks, posted on Instagram. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHET HAYES, TOM HANKS` SON: Look. I know the majority of you all aren`t going to get this because the history is still so fresh in our country. But hip-hop isn`t about race. It`s about the culture you identify with. And can`t no one tell me what I can`t say. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: No. I don`t think I need to hit the button again just yet. But here is a further offering from Hayes. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: I just want to clarify one thing. Under no circumstances would I ever go up to somebody that I didn`t know and just be like, hey, what`s up, my (bleep). It is an unspoken thing between people who are friends who understand each other. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Chester, there is so much to say. But since we are not friends and maybe we don`t understand each other and therefore I don`t want to be misunderstood, let me just say -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: Every week contestants on the FOX show "Master Chef" chop, dice and dish up delicious recipes in the ultimate culinary competition. Now, the food is compelling but what makes us really tune in is the amateur chefs themselves. The season started with 40 contestants hailing from 16 different states representing many different walks of life. So one of the amateur chefs is already getting a lot of attention in and out of the kitchen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) AMANDA SAAB, MASTER CHEF CONTESTANT: My name is Amanda. I grew up in a strict Lebanese family. I came to love cooking by seeing my grandmother cooker for the entire family. I cook Middle Eastern fusion food. So I am the expert when it comes to cooking lamb. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Amanda Saab is a social worker by day who says even as a 5- year-old she loved cooking. She happens to be the first Muslim-American woman to appear in hijab on an American cooking show. So while she`s cooking and grilling and baking, she is also hoping to break down a few stereotypes along the way. I`m pleased to welcome Amanda Saab to Nerdland. It is so nice to have you here. SAAB: Thank you so much for having me. HARRIS-PERRY: So first, talk to me about cooking. You are a social worker but you are really an extraordinary chef. SAAB: Thank you. HARRIS-PERRY: What does cooking do for you? Why is it important to you? SAAB: It`s so important. My family always gets together around food. I`m visiting family in Detroit now. And we all get together. We are in the kitchen with my grandma. She teaches us her old world secrets and tricks in the kitchen. And it`s just so unifying. And you can really have a great discussion with people when you are around good food. HARRIS-PERRY: You know, that for me, it feels like such a universal answer to what food means to families, to communities and part of it makes master chef fun because people are coming from all different spaces. SAAB: Absolutely. HARRIS-PERRY: So then talk to me about your hijab and the kind of strong, mostly positive but I`m sure positive and negative reactions you have received. SAAB: Right. So people are really excited to see a Muslim-American Hijabi on this cooking competition. And people are really curious. You know, why did it take so long? It`s 2015. There are lots of Muslim women who love to cook. I`m not the first. I know that. And I hope I won`t be the last to appear on such a great platform. So people are really excited about it. I`m really excited about it. I`m just being me and doing what I love. And to get some on the support that I`m getting is actually incredible. HARRIS-PERRY: It does feels to me like one of the presumptions about hijab is that it is representative of gender inequity, that is a representative of women being oppressed. So the idea that you would be allowed to be on television and cooking and follow your dream is part of what people are responding to. SAAB: Right, yes. So I decided to put on hijab when I was 17 years old by myself. My parents had a really long discussion with me at the time. And mom didn`t wear a hijab herself. They were like, are you sure you want to do this? I`m like this is the way I want to practice my faith. This is the way I want to show my devotion to God and make a conscious decision every single day to say that my faith is first. So no man in my life said, you need to wear that. And I wear it, you know, very fashionably, I would like to say. So no one is telling me to wear this. I`m doing it for me. So yes, I like to be out there and, you know, on this platform and say, hey, we are not oppressed. HARRIS-PERRY: One of the aspects when you talk about fan, community, religion, faith, national origin is that food also ends up representing those things. Back in 2013 on the Australian version of the show, Samir (INAUDIBLE) who wore hijab was also -- was eliminated during a time when she had to make a pork hot dog. And there was conversation and question about -- we have seen vegetarians on the cooking shows to make meat. I`m wondering about the question of accommodation of food practices in the context of an American cooking competition? SAAB: Right. I have gone through my entire life not expecting accommodations if for anything. I`m here to play like everybody else. And I want an even playing field. I don`t expect accommodations. But I`m not going to ask for it. So one of the things I was preparing to be on Master Chef is I was studying how to cook pork, how to cook with alcohol because there are few things that I was inexperienced with. So I made a conscious effort to study those areas. So it wouldn`t be my weakness. HARRIS-PERRY: I love that just that sentence which on the one hand just makes me angry but also gives me like this sense of power. I never expected accommodation for anything and the sense of there is always that double (INAUDIBLE). I think making a black woman, too. That`s how we do it, too. I really appreciate your cooking and I appreciate your voice, thank you for being here today, Amanda. SAAB: Thank you very much. HARRIS-PERRY: Coming up next, the Caitlyn Jenner effect and what the new "Vanity Fair" cover revealed the 30th anniversary of the goonies. Corey Feldman, aka, Mouth, joins us. There is more Nerdland at the top of the hour. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: Welcome back. I`m Melissa Harris-Perry. It was one year ago this week, the Time Magazine featured transgender actress and activist Lavern Cox on a cover alongside a headline proclaiming the arrival of the transgender tipping point. In the cover story Time`s Katy Steinmetz writes, "Almost one year after the Supreme Court ruled that Americans were free to marry the person they loved no matter their sex, another civil rights movement is poised to challenge long held cultural norms and beliefs. Transgender people are emerging from the margins to fight for an equal place in society." The result, according to Time was a radical increase in trans consciousness. Today the rapid evolution and our recognition of trans identity shows no signs of stopping. Because on Monday the release of another magazine cover featuring another celebrity trans woman pushed what was once marginal subculture even further into the main stream. In an April ABC News interview with Diane Sawyer for 2020. The Olympic decathlete and reality show personality that we have known for decades as Bruce Jenner started getting us accustomed to pronoun change that would soon be appropriate to reference the female self that Jenner has always identified with. She -- not he, her, not him. And with the release of the July cover of "Vanity Fair" this week we got our first introduction to her and the name she`s chosen for herself. On the cover, Jenner shot by photographer Annie Leibowitz is in a glamorous pin-up style photo invites us to simply "Call me Caitlyn." Jenner`s unveiling of her authentic self has met with widespread support across media including from President Obama who tweeted, "it takes courage to share your story." In her second tweet ever, Jenner said of her public transition, "I`m so happy after such a long struggle to be living my true self." Welcome to the world, Caitlyn. Can`t wait for you to get to know her/me. There is certainly a lot to celebrate at Caitlyn`s getting to the know you party. Those of us who never gave much thought to things like birth, sex, or gender identity are not at least considering the possibility of a construct more complicated than a masculine/feminine binary. More importantly reaching this tipping point has opened up space for the humanity of transgender people to be truly seen. As Laverne Cox reminds us on a post on her tumbler this week that means looking beyond the glossy cover, she writes most trans folks don`t have the privileges Caitlyn and I now have. "It is those trans folks, we must continue to lift up, get them access to health care, jobs, housing, safe streets, safe schools and homes for our young people. We must lift up the stories of those most at risk. Statistically trans people of color who are poor and working class." Cox`s point that we can`t see highly visible trans people without also recognizing the vulnerabilities of trans identity is most acutely apparent in stories like this. The advocate just two weeks ago reporting on the stabbing death in Philadelphia of London Chanel, she was the eighth trans woman to be murdered this year. Just this week in New York, a transgender woman pushed onto the subway tracks in an incident police are investigating as a possible hate crime. Then there are stories we know of a transgender teens who have taken their own lives. So many in 2015 that we can barely fit them on a screen. So, even as we remember this transgender to pinpoint at the moment everything changed it`s also the year in which life for so many people who are transgender remain tragically the same. Joining me now, Mara Keisling, executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality. Raul Reyes, attorney contributor to Cherno Biko who is creative director of the MrsBikoWorldTour, #MrsBikoWorldTour. And We Happy Trans and CFO of Sylvia Rivera Law Project. And Carlos Maza, LGBT program director at Media Matters for America. Thank you all for being here. Okay. We talked right after the initial 2020 interview. Are you surprised at what`s been a genuinely and generally positive reaction to Caitlyn Jenner? MARA KEISLING, EXEC. DIR., "NATIONAL CENTER FOR TRANSGENDER EQUALITY": Yes, a little bit, I think. But very pleased. I have been very pleased at how the media has really taken the opportunity to go in and talk to lots of different trans people. Hundreds of trans people. I saw somebody on Facebook yesterday saying that a group of Latina trans women went into a Univision station in Houston or Austin and got to tell their personal stories. So this one person`s personal story has turned into an opportunity for hundreds of people to tell their personal stories. And I hate saying this. But the onion maybe has gotten back. The onion did a story last week that trans activists were surprised that Baskin-Robbins has come out in favor of transgender equality. That`s the kind of year or two we have been having. People are seeing us more. People are supporting us more. But still right before Caitlyn Jenner came out, the human rights campaign did a survey that showed among American voters only 20 percent said they knew one of us. Now, I hope Caitlyn Jenner has bumped that up a couple of points and all the secondary stories. HARRIS-PERRY: So, this point about the idea of knowledge of the kind of intimacy is part of the kind of like margins to center story that we have seen in other spaces. So, it`s certainly was part of, even if we go all the way back to a Harvey milk moment. Right? It`s part of the notion of coming out as a version. We have seen this on those who are undocumented literally coming out as undocumented. And yet as an African-American from the south I also know that intimacy is insufficient for a support of equality. Because black folks live right next to white folks although our whole history and it didn`t necessarily lead to that sense of and therefore we must fight for equality. REYES: Right. But I think it is coming. Because I look at the transgender community right now. With Caitlyn Jenner it wasn`t just a tipping point to me. It is one of several. Because I also think maybe two years of thinking back to -- maybe two years ago when Chaz Bono was on "Dancing with the Stars." That`s a main stream, middle of America show. That`s a show maybe your grandparents watch. Just for him to be on the programming, to start conversations in people`s homes. I think little things like that matter. And what I`m hearing for many people this week in seeing social media is this whole notion that people have of, well, what he wants to do is fine, but I`m uncomfortable with it. It makes me uncomfortable. And that is a good thing. Because we go as our social movements, as our society grows and evolves, we go from invisibility to like repulsion, to uncomfortable. Eventually tolerant. Eventually acceptance. Eventually support. So, this is part of like the broader shift that we are going through with the transgender community. And yet, as wonderful as it is for Caitlyn Jenner like as you touch on it here, when you look at the statistics of life as a typical transgender person, 40 percent attempt suicide. Seventy percent of the violence aimed at LGBT people is aimed at transgender women. So, the statistics -- the reality of black for most transgender people is very difficult. HARRIS-PERRY: Not Caitlyn`s. Yes. I want to clean in on this, impart because I have long thought of myself as a good ally to LGBT communities. And not only, but five years ago, just got reed on Twitter around -- just like when I used to really read my @replies. It was just like, oh, you think and I was just -- whoa! And so, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out all of the ways that I was failing around the notion of simply gender as a social construct. Like that alone has been something that was so left out of my understanding around even the idea of race as a social construct. And then keep sort of delving into this question. Finding that so many of my initial entry points had been through people of relative privilege as they are I think in all communities. And not having, for example, Janet Mocks write text available to me when I`m first moving in. So, I guess part of what I`m wondering is how we get better and not just sort of applaud ourselves for being so good at the Caitlyn Jenner moment. CHERNO BIKO, CREATIVE DIRECTOR, MRSBIKOWORLDTOUR: Right. Well, thank you so much for having me on. And I actually remember when you got red. HARRIS-PERRY: Red! BIKO: On Twitter. HARRIS-PERRY: Red! BIKO: I may have been one of the people who red -- HARRIS-PERRY: Good. Hell, yes. (LAUGHTER) BIKO: And even three years ago when Mara was first year and you had a big transgenders in America story and there were no trans people of color. And so, one of the ways that we push this conversation forward is really centralizing our communities most vulnerable in out risks communities which is trans women of color. Right? And so, I actually brought redefining realness which was the blueprint of my path to womanhood. And it just came out in paperback and I saw that you are on the cover. And you said you would be changed by this book and it`s true. We have so many stories out there. And it`s not fair to just have one person be the face of a movement. It`s impossible really. And it kind of shift the conversation to folks who are having access to things like health care that we can`t get. And it`s just the conversations of people who are like privileged. So, my mentor Riza Gaza (ph) always talks about change, dismantle and build. And so change was the covers that we see. That`s the change that we want to see in the world. We see Caitlyn Jenner and Laverne Cox on these covers. But we also have to the dismantle systems of white supremacy and capitalism. Right? And then we have to build back up what we want to see in the world. So, I`m sorry I look a little tired. But we were on set last night until 4:00 a.m. filming "Happy Birthday Marcia." And so, there are so many transgender tipping points like in 1969 when street kids and trans women of color and drag queens said no more. And rebuild against the police and stonewall right here in New York. And so those are all tipping points that I`m very proud to be a part of. HARRIS-PERRY: So, it`s interesting that you bring up Stonewall. Because we talked a bit about Stonewall when we were sort of at a moment of trying to think about what a watershed moment is. And, you know, poor TV so we are looking for pictures, right? There is like one image from the whole Stonewall right. So, we think about how powerful those images are of the Selma bridge crossing. How important are those, those images of the Birmingham on dogs and water hoses. And Stonewall is simply without coverage impart because the media simply did not bother to cover what was happening when Stonewall happened. CARLOS MAZA, LGBT PROGRAM DIRECTOR, MEDIA MATTERS FOR AMERICA: Yes. I think we are in a weird in between space where we`re happy at those conversion and we`re debating what`s good coverage looks like. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. MAZA: Because I was the first one screaming when I saw the "Vanity Fair" cover thinking this is great. At the same time that`s a very specific particular depiction of trans people. And even -- HARRIS-PERRY: And of womanhood in general. MAZA: A womanhood. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. MAZA: A very -- one that`s very dependent on resources that most people trans are not probably don`t have in most cases. One of the frustrating things about trans couples that it tends to be very celebrity and spectacle oriented. That we love trans celebrities, when you`re talking about the particularities, Caitlyn Jenner who most of us are not like and will never be like. We don`t talk about the systemic problems. So, when Caitlyn Jenner during the Diane Sawyer in "The View" said, you know, for the record, trans women of color face huge rates of violence. That`s the first time that people talked about that for years on national television. And there is a problem with focusing the particularities of celebrity, ignoring much lower systemic less sexy things. The Selma pictures are affected because they are outline systemic cultural problems supposed to focusing on a few stories that are interesting and can illuminate things that can sort of be a segue into broader stories but it`s really not the massive trans experiences in the most cases. I want to say thanks to Raul Reyes and the rest of the panel sticking around. We have got more on this. Stay right there. Because when we come back, I want to talk about masculinity, femininity, beauty and sport. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: Caitlyn Jenner`s "Vanity Fair" cover introduced us not only to the name and face of her feminine identity but also to a specific model of femininity with which he identifies. Softly lit wearing special lingerie in a classic portraits. She is beautiful but it is a glamorous commercialize cis-normative version of beauty. And it is a stark contrast to the masculine identity she`s shedding, the identity that had for years been define in large part by her image of the consummate American athlete. I want to welcome back to my panel WNBA Champion Swin Cash. So, just keep thinking about the extent to which Bruce Jenner, the masculinity of Bruce Jenner is in part constituted by Bruce`s role as a decathlete. And this is how America understands who Bruce Jenner is. And so our understanding if Caitlyn Jenner didn`t become "Vanity Fair." And like I`m thinking both of these things at the same time that I`m watching the USA World Cup women in full makeup hair, right, performing often this kind of femininity over and against their own role as women in sport. And I`m thinking, man, it just now got really complicated in these ways that I think must be difficult for everybody who is dealing with masculinity, femininity, womanness, manness, cisness, transness. And I`m just wondering like how this all ends up playing out in who we are in the authenticity and sports. CASH: Yes. And it`s very difficult, I think for a lot of athletes. Because I knew I was coming on the show and I wanted to just talk to athletes, friends of mine just to see what they thought about everything. One thing I think that what Caitlyn Jenner has done is open up the conversation. Open up the conversation because when we think about sports and about athletes we think you are on the playing field and have that masculine, you`re strong, you`re tough. You know, you are an athlete. You get after it. Now it`s switching over and you are seeing a different side of, like every woman, we are different how we are on the field versus off the field. And you`re having those discussions. But what really came to mind for me is that a lot of people didn`t want to touch it. They just want to touch, they said, Swin, don`t go on the show. Don`t say anything. Because we are not informed enough. If we speak on it, it`s like death. But for me, I would like to see more people having dialogue and opening up those conversations and learning more about people like Caitlyn Jenner, about Cox. Because I think that will then help us as a society. And not just the athlete part of it but just in general. HARRIS-PERRY: And yes, so more, so part for me the "Vanity Fair" like on the one hand screaming with joy about the beautiful cover. But also thinking that`s a lot of pressure for any woman in her 60s to have to be pin-up, you know, cover girl gorgeous. And it does make me wonder if even as we`re starting to expand, challenge are notions about gender identity, we are re-inscribing these like definitional pressures that are still very cis-normative about what makes a woman beautiful. KEISLING: Yes. Absolutely. You know, I have all sorts of complicated feelings about this. I think it`s interesting that Jenner is the oldest woman to ever be on the cover of "Vanity Fair," period. HARRIS-PERRY: Period. KEISLING: And I think that tells us something, something also. And I don`t know Caitlyn Jenner. And she may just be a very femme identified person. This might be her thing, this might be her thing for a while and then like most women in their 60s -- HARRIS-PERRY: Yes, it`s a lot. KEISLING: It`s a lot. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. KEISLING: Yes. And you know, for me it`s something I think about a lot. I don`t happen to be an overly feminine person. But one thing I know, my hair, I would love to have shorter hair again. HARRIS-PERRY: Uh-huh. KEISLING: I don`t like to fuss around. But for me this is a bit of a safety thing. You know, I`m over six feet tall like Jenner. I have to worry about how I walk around in the world. HARRIS-PERRY: Uh-huh. KEISLING: And by presenting a little bit more traditionally female, I`m I think a lot safer. And I don`t know if that weighs in to Jenner saying -- and lastly, I just want to say that my friends and family are probably fascinated that I`m on television talking about fashion and sports. (LAUGHTER) Because it`s not my thing. And on the 50th anniversary of the Griswold decision, for instance, boy, you know, contraception is at risk, privacy is at risk. HARRIS-PERRY: Yep. KEISLING: And this isn`t just my -- this isn`t my biggest concern. HARRIS-PERRY: And yet what you said, I think, is so critical. This idea that cis-normative -- so just again for folks who may not know the -- watching. So, people, this very sort of relatively narrow traditional definition of womanhood that is very feminine. The idea of protected in the context of public vulnerability because of what we know about the vulnerability particularly of trans women to violence and harassment on the street. And so, you know, this is part of what Laverne Cox talks a little bit about. This idea of being drop dead gorgeous from certain lighting, certain angles. Being able to as he says embody certain cis-normative beauty standards. But that might actually be not just about beauty but actually about public safety. BIKO: Right. I don`t want to be a Debbie Downer, Melissa. But if we can just talk real for a moment. HARRIS-PERRY: Yep. BIKO: Trans women of color have been doing this work in the media for the past few years pretty intensely. Ad we have this beautiful moment earlier this year with Laverne Cox, on Katie Couric where Katie Couric asked about her private area. HARRIS-PERRY: She flipped it. BIKO: And she flipped it. And said, I don`t talk about that. We need to the change the conversation to centralize. People who are most vulnerable in that risks. There are so many other things. My friend Thick Malone (ph) and mentor always talks about we need to Kanye this moment. Caitlyn, I`m going to let you finish, but trans people of color are so many more -- more likely to be harassed on the street. And so, it`s kind of like we took our step back like we are going back to trans 101. When we tried to push it forward to 201 and 301. And even last year when Beyonce was on the cover of Time 100 and she was wearing kind of similar to what Caitlyn Jenner was wearing but she was a little more covered, she had a white sheer top on. And Beyonce got rich, she got called a horrible mother, she got said that she was relying on her sexuality. And so, we need to point out and recognize the double standard that exists for women of color and white women and whose bodies and whose stories are celebrated publically in the media. HARRIS-PERRY: Right. And because those questions of bodies. Right? And I think this is -- I appreciate you for pushing since the 201. Because the point isn`t to talk about what looks good or doesn`t look good or what we think is beautiful. But the ways that that then gets inscribed in our policy. In questions of everything from contraception to the health care access, right? Which we know are central questions, particularly for trans folks. I want to say thank you to Swin Cash for coming, for talking about the conversation. The rest of the panel is sticking around. And up next, the difficult week had life pronouns in newsrooms and Twitter feds across America. We`re going to talk about how the press is feeling so good about itself this week and maybe how we need to check that a little bit. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: This week as mainstream media and followers on social media reacted to Caitlyn Jenner`s "Vanity Fair" cover, we got a chance to see what it looks like when culture shift is real time. The response is immediate if imperfect and as the Atlantic put it a little bit awkward. Some of the tweets mentioning Caitlyn`s official Twitter account, we`re still figuring out the proper pronounce. Then those tweets inspiring a Twitter account that automatically sent a friendly reminder to those users that it`s she, not he. There was the Washington Post publishing and then retracting a headline referring to Jenner as Bruce and the Associated Press article that fumbled both proper noun and pronoun referring both to Bruce and he. As my guest Carlos Maza wrote this week, violation of the A.P.`s own reporting guidelines but misgendering gender was the least of the misstep from mainstream and social media as colorful own to say, "The A.P.`s fixation on her cleavage and va, va, voom fashion reinforces a widespread problem with media coverage of transgender people, a voyeuristic fixation on their bodies and appearances." I want to bring in one more guest to my panel, Hannah Simpson, a trans activist and medical student. I actually want to get to both of you on these ideas of bodies. Right? This is part of the push-back like Laverne Cox gave and her interview with another journalists. Previously, but this idea of like that the conversation to be had is a body conversation. As opposed to a policy or person conversation. HANNAH SIMPSON, MEDICAL STUDENT: Well, thank you for having me, first of all. It`s an honor to be here in person. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. The last time you were via remote. Good to have you here. SIMPSON: So, I think the interesting thing is that -- and I tell this as a story that there was once a man who asked a trans woman what`s it like to be a woman now. And seeing as she was a woman now he answered the question for her. (LAUGHTER) HARRIS-PERRY: I love that, right? So, there is a way in which those privileges of womanhood that obtain right across. I want to play with these ideas of bodies a little bit though. Because it does feels to me, right? And, you know, I`m also interested impart because you are a medical student here. Right? The ways in which the fixation does becomes on our own notion that it is our bodies that are the things that make us our human person. MAZA: Right. And I think the thing that stressed me out and probably gave a lot of people an anxiety about the "Vanity Fair" cover and the positive reactions was, it was unclear if we were celebrating Jenner because she transitioned or because she passed and we wouldn`t know that she had transitioned. It was the former that`s great. Because we can see transness is beautiful and transness is authentic, something that`s worth praise. If we`re celebrating that we wouldn`t know she was trans or that she passes for how we think a woman should look. That actually makes things a lot tougher for trans people who probably will never pass with that kind of resource and that kind of back-up. HARRIS-PERRY: So, when you say passing it of course also then brings this intersexual moment for me. Right? Because for me passing, the first, for me the first click when I hear that is, of course, about racial passing. Right? MAZA: And for me it`s passing as straight. HARRIS-PERRY: Right. Right. Like, whatever that normative conception is, right? MAZA: Yes. I think every marginalized group has to deal with the struggle that is desire to sort of get a short cut to tolerance by embodying or mimicking the dominant group and trying to find beauty and validity and dignity, and some difference. HARRIS-PERRY: But let me push, a part of it though is about that idea of validity and sort of, you know, but the other piece of it is people pass. Right? I mean, this is a brilliant new work by Alfred Hobbs around racial passing. People pass not because they actually value whiteness more but because of the safety of protection and policy question. Because whiteness came with certain goodies, certain values. Not getting cut off in a conversation if you are a woman. Right? And so in those ways the capacity to pass as cis, straight as white are a reflection of how those identities simply have more goodies associated with them. SIMPSON: Well, first of all, I want to say passing is a terrible word. Because passing implies failure as an alternative. And that`s not how we have to think about this. If you see a woman who doesn`t look like a woman you have ever seen before or a man for that matter or someone that`s in between, first of all, that is always okay to ask. What pronounce they prefer and to be respectful on that way once they tell you themselves when nobody else first. But second of all, that`s your chance to expand your definition of a woman or a man is. And this starts at any age. And I think what Caitlyn Jenner has done which is so impressive is proof that 65 is never too late to invent yourself again. HARRIS-PERRY: Hmm. I`m glad you said it`s always okay to ask the pronoun a person prefers as opposed to it`s always okay simply to ask. Because again, I had a black woman moment. But like, it`s not okay to touch my hair just because you were having feelings about you had never seen hair like this before. So, I am wondering about that again, the politics of navigating a world where people will ask about your identity. Because, you know, I don`t know that I`m sure that I feel good about the idea of it`s always okay to ask. BIKO: Well, to me it`s not. HARRIS-PERRY: Okay. Yes. Because I don`t feel like, we maybe shouldn`t tell everybody to ask everyone. BIKO: Yes. Well, for so long I didn`t touch the subject, much like Swin said earlier. I thought I didn`t want to miss this opportunity and this moment to raise visibility for folks who are gender nonconforming and exist outside of the binary. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. BIKO: So, sometimes we don`t even have language or access to an analysis that will say, what is a pronoun? You know, like, do I have options? HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. BIKO: Facebook recently just updated into 50 options and people are still trying to wrap their head around it. HARRIS-PERRY: I have a gender nonconforming niece who is not trans but she is gender nonconforming. And like, I keep wondering the ways that we are also missing, you know, what would have been called the stone butch blues which are also part of this story. It`s not just a binary. BIKO: Yes. And those are the people who are really most vulnerable and at risk. Because not everybody has the privilege of looking cis or looking white. I`m dark-skinned. I`m bigger. I don`t pass, if that`s a thing. But I am redefining realness as Jenna Mock says in my own way. And not just for me but for so many other folks. HARRIS-PERRY: Mara, let me ask you, just, in the five seconds, if we had the policy agenda though to go with all of these, just what does that policy agenda looks like? KEISLING: The policy agenda is access to health care. Access to decency. It`s really about compassion, it`s really about the golden rule. Trans people want to be treated like everybody else. We want to be able to live our lives, we want to be able to not be murdered. HARRIS-PERRY: Again, as I keep looking for those points of connections, even just to say trans people want to be not murdered. That`s been so much the call of the Black Lives Matter movement as well. This idea of being able to be safe in a public space while still being fully who you are. Thank you to Mara Keisling and to Hannah Simpson, to Cherno Biko and to Carlos Maza. We`re having a good time. You should call me on Twitter. When we come back, something very different. Do you know what a cult classic movie treasure was released 30 years ago this day? Find out when Corey Feldman comes to Nerdland. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: Thirty years ago today Gen X kids nationwide opened their summer vacations at the movie theater for a story about preteens ducking gangsters while flirting for lost pirate treasure. A story that would imprint itself on a generation. It was called the "The Goonies." And for many of the hallmarks that made executive producer Steven Spielberg king of the Reagan-era Cineflex. Cute kids fighting -- grown-up, check, epic swashbuckling improbable danger, check. A cast of cute kids in epic swashbuckling improbable danger while fighting -- grown-ups, check, check, check. Oh, and pop icon Cindy Lauper sang the soundtrack single "The Goonies are Good Enough." Mildly put, it was a perfect storm of youth centric `80s pop culture that left many kids trying to master the truffle shuffle. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED BOY: First you have to do the truffle shuffle. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Come on! UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Do it. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Come on. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Do it! (Grunts) (LAUGHTER) (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Well, those kids grew up -- kind of and converged earlier this week in the seaside down of Astoria, Oregon where the movie "The Goonies" was filmed for the annual celebration of the childhood memory. And we wanted to see what Goonies day was all about. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAC BURNS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OREGON FILM MUSEUM: Five years ago we had about 15,000 Goonies fans in the town of 10,000. And this year for the 30th we expect even more. UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yes. It resonates I think for a lot of people because as kids a lot of times we feel like outsider. UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We are here to celebrate a movie that captured our childhood imagination. A lot of people as kids, you know, you love your parents and see you go through hard times and stress. This is one of the first movies that I remember as a kid where it freed your imagination to really see what was going on. And it gave the kids the ability to save their parents in this movie. UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: They came, you know, together, helped each other out. UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It`s a timeless classic and it connects us all to childhood. And it`s an adventure we wish we would have had as kids. UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: It`s one of my favorite childhood movies. UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I think it`s everything. It`s the pirateness, it`s the adventure. UNIDENTIFIED MAN: For a story for Goonies fans coming here it`s like recapturing their childhood and stepping into the movies. There are so many real places just like the jail, and the house, and the bowling alley, and down at the Cannon Beach, Haystack Rock. All these place that were in the movie are real places. We are not just a movie set. We are with a town that people live here. And for them it`s stepping back into their movie and into their childhood. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: When we come back, I`m excited to welcome to Nerdland, the Goonies they simply called Mouth. Actor and musician Corey Feldman is next. (COMMERCIAL BREAL) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: What do you want? UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Lots of water. UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Four waters. Is that all? UNIDENTIFIED BOY: No. I want the Veal Scallopini. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: I want a Fettuccine Alfredo. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: A fettuccine in 1981. UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: The only thing we serve is tongue. (Screaming) You boys like tongue? (LAUGHTER) (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: That was a scene with actor Corey Feldman, then 13 years old and Director Richard Donner`s "The Goonies" released 30-years-ago today. It was a fanciful adventure story was smearing bad guys and hidden treasure. But underneath was a human story about kids fighting to save their homes from foreclosure. And while not the most diverse on screen group, the pre-teen adventures they gave everyone something to identify with. Mikey was the leader. His brother brand the muscle. Data was the brain. Chunk the group`s spirit. And when Brand`s girlfriend Andy was dragged into the mix her spunky best friend Steph prove more than a match for Mikey`s right hand Mandy aptly nicknamed Mouth. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Wow. President Lincoln. George Washington. Martin Sheen -- UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Martin Sheen? That`s President Kennedy, you idiot. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Same difference. I mean, he played Kennedy once. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Oh, that`s really smart. I`m glad to know you`re using your brain. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes. Well, at least I have a brain. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: So stupid, mouth. UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Oh, yes? UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes! UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Shut up. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Joining me now in Nerland from Los Angeles is the all grown up man behind Mouth. Actor and musician Corey Feldman. Corey, I have to tell you that the level of enthusiasm from my executive producer Eric and having a chance to talk to you before we came on air, it was very, you actually turned him into a goonie. COREY FELDMAN, ACTOR: Thank you! Bless you. Bless him. Bless Eric. Yes. HARRIS-PERRY: And there is a little bit of a debate raging in Nerdland right now. Is Goonies just a boy movie? FELDMAN: Oh, heck no. Are you kidding me? We have more girl fans probably than we do boy fans. That`s the crazy thing. Oh my God! Every girl is like Goonies, Goonies, all the time. HARRIS-PERRY: And yet, there is something about that kind of particular idea of adventure, of I think the language that you were using earlier is swashbuckling. Have we in any way lost that in our movies? Like this idea of young people on their own. No parents particularly to be found. You know, being the star of their own story. FELDMAN: Their own adventure. Yes. Well, I agree there is less of that. And I think a lot of it has to do with so much politics these days. You know, you have to go back 30 years ago. We didn`t have such strict rules and regulation on, you know, parenting and what was responsible versus irresponsible and all those sorts of things which are now hot points and hot topics that I think people are always afraid to kind of, you know, put their food into the hot water. Whereas, in those days, you know, we just didn`t think about things like that. Like the idea of kids going off on an adventure was very real. Because in those days they did. Nowadays, their biggest adventure is all connecting on X-box live. HARRIS-PERRY: Right. I mean, I can say, you know, my parents are terrific parents and all of that. But they weren`t really -- I mean, in most of my like day to day, I don`t really know where my parents work. If I was there with my sisters, with, you know, kind of groups of kids. FELDMAN: Yes. HARRIS-PERRY: And I`m wondering, what was the experience like to actually be on set with a group of young people for, like, were you having a kind of adventure in the actual filming of it itself? FELDMAN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, to this day and I`ve done over 100 films at this point, everybody says to me, what was your favorite film to work on. My favorite film to watch and my favorite film to work on which is two different answers. But to work on, the answer is always very simple "The Goonies." Because who else could imagine having to go to work every day, to work on a pirate ship, be with seven kids who are all fun and outgoing and adventurous. And then of course with the two biggest kids of all which is Steven Spielberg and Richard Donner. Because thrust me, they were big children on the set every day. And we were all playing on those water slides, we were all playing on that pirate ship. Michael Jackson, Pee-wee Herman, Cindy Lauper, Harrison Ford. Everybody you can think of wanted to be on that set. When they unveiled that pirate ship, it was literally like they had just built another world. And everybody wanted to be a part of it. HARRIS-PERRY: One of my producers Traci wants to know whether or not you still have Mouth`s purple rain t-shirt. FELDMAN: You know, unfortunately I was conned by this master manipulator who unfortunately was not a great influence on children and this guy manipulated me into selling him my entire Goonies outfit and my bike from the movie I think for, like $40 when I was a kid. HARRIS-PERRY: Oh! FELDMAN: Yes. Tragic. Tragic. HARRIS-PERRY: That is officially tragic. FELDMAN: It is. But you know, I do have some mementos that I keep around in my house which are just random. Things like I have one of the original gold doubloons, I also happen how the Andy`s A former sweater which maybe Kerry Green might want one day. I don`t know. If she`s watching this, I guess she could give me a call. HARRIS-PERRY: Now, we have been seeing on Twitter a lot of people asking if there are any screenings of "The Goonies" for the 30th anniversary. You know, people actually want to go and see it together, I think, with their friends. Do you have one coming up? FELDMAN: Yes. Yes. Well, as you know, as story is blowing up big this weekend, so everybody is there. But I couldn`t make it there because I`m actually preparing for my first concert with my new live band. I have a new double album coming out called "Angelic To The Core." It will be out at the end of the summer. And I have put together a band of all beautiful female models which is called the angels. And we are actually doing our big premiere concert at Bonnaroo next weekend alongside a "Goonies" 30th anniversary screening. So, it`s going to be actually the Corey Feldman experience at Bonnaroo in the cinema tent. All day long we`re going to screen goonies. We`ll going to do a concert with the angels, it`s going to be fantastic. HARRIS-PERRY: Thank you very much to Corey Feldman in Los Angeles, California. FELDMAN: Thank you. HARRIS-PERRY: And again, you made a lot of people`s day today but particularly our beloved Eric, you made his day. FELDMAN: Never say die! Never say die! (LAUGHTER) It still may happen 30 years later. HARRIS-PERRY: It may still happen. Absolutely. Okay. Thanks so much for joining us this morning. FELDMAN: Thank you. God bless. HARRIS-PERRY: Up next, the graduate. She went from homeless to high school mom to valedictorian. And she joins me next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: In recent years Chicago has seen a meaningful improvement in its high school graduation rate. At the end of last school year Chicago public schools saw a 69 percent graduation rate but despite the city`s progress that Chicago`s Wendell Phillips Academy, students are struggling against very long odds. The school is overwhelmingly poor and racially segregated and had a 2014 graduation rate of just 53 percent. So, for those Phillips students who do make it to the stage and receive a hard earned diploma, the accomplishment is even sweeter. This triumph is embodied by the Phillips class valedictorian this year Trameka Pope. When she was in grade school, Trameka and her mother were homeless. In eight grade, Trameka became pregnant and gave birth to her daughter just three days before starting her freshman year. But she was not defeated. Instead she saw her difficult circumstances as an opportunity for excellence and became a member of the National Honor Society and has been awarded more than $600,000 in scholarship funds and had been accepted to more than 25 colleges and universities. Tomorrow she will graduate as her class valedictorian and I`m so pleased to have Trameka Pope join me now from Chicago. It`s lovely to have you here. Congratulations. TRAMEKA POPE, SENIOR, WENDELL PHILLIPS ACADEMY HIGH SCHOOL: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. HARRIS-PERRY: I`m thrilled to have you. When you became a mother at such a young age, what did people tell you about the likelihood that you would even going to finish high school much less graduate at the top of your class? POPE: I was told that it would be hard. I wouldn`t be able to do all of the things such as going out or hanging out with friends as much as I can because I have a child and she`s not baby doll I can sit to the side and walk away from. I was expected to not graduate from high school let alone make it even to my sophomore year. However, I did not let any of that defeat me and I kept pushing forward. HARRIS-PERRY: I am the mom of a 16-month-old. And I am an old lady. And I find it hard. What were the most difficult obstacles that you faced to get to this point? POPE: Well, what was really hard for me was not getting enough sleep. She was -- she would sleep a lot during the day so I mean, I would be up a lot during the night. And I would get about three hours of sleep and I would have to wake up and go to school. So, during my class periods I would be in there with my eyes wide open so that I wouldn`t fall asleep. Also spending time with her. I had a bad habit of spending a lot of time at school because I wanted to keep my grades up and I felt like I was spending a lot of time away from her and it was a lot of things that I felt like I was missing out on. So not being able to feel more comfortable being at every moment that she make in her life was really hard for me. HARRIS-PERRY: Trameka, those are the issues that every mom faces that idea of like getting enough sleep and also being a working mom trying to do what you have to do and want to be there for your child. So I know for me it`s all about having a support network. Who were the people that supported you? POPE: Yes. A lot of the people that supported me are my grandma`s school teachers from West Preparatory Academy, also a lot of my teachers from Wendell Phillips Academy High School, the staff, the administration, they are all very supportive and especially my family, my mom, my brothers and sisters, they support me all the way. My mom is my biggest number one support. She helped me a lot with my child and I have nine siblings so she has to help with them, me and my child, I also have a nephew she help with. So, she`s a strong woman and supports a lot. The staff members from Wells Prep, they, I wanted to stay close to my school which is outside of Wendell Phillips that I was looking out not so long ago like I believe last year or a year before last. And they was helping me with because I didn`t want to go to a school where I was going to feel like I wasn`t being appreciated and I felt like the teachers wasn`t going to treat me right because I was afraid that they would going to judge me from being a parent. And my high school teachers, they helped me a lot when it came to college, making decisions. My counselor. She went on every college tour with me. Every college visit. HARRIS-PERRY: And where are you going to go to college? And where are you going to go? POPE: I`m going to Western Illinois University in Macomb. HARRIS-PERRY: And let me ask you one last question. What are you going to say to your classmates when you graduate as valedictorian? What will be your advice or your words to them? POPE: I would tell them to keep moving forward. Don`t give up in life no matter how hard it get. Keep pushing. And keep God first. So you can be successful. HARRIS-PERRY: Trameka Pope in Chicago, I just want to tell you how much I am proud of you. How many other people are rooting for you as well. It`s tough circumstances. You have done a great job. And just keep that network around you, keep pushing, keep being a great mom and a great student. We`re very, very proud of you. And that`s our show for today. Thanks to you at home for watching. We`re going to see you next Saturday at 10:00 a.m. Eastern. Right now it`s time for a preview of "WEEKENDS WITH ALEX WITT" but Richard Lui is filling in today. Hi, Richard. RICHARD LUI, MSNBC ANCHOR: And Melissa, what a great interview. So inspiring. HARRIS-PERRY: Absolutely. LUI: Oh, I just want to hug her. Okay, have a good one. And good to see you as well. He did what no horse could do in 37 years. How much money is American Pharoah worth now? We`re counting up the dollars he could make his owner. Back to school. The three democratic presidential candidates court the teacher vote. Hear who received the highest marks. Plus, a first look at Britain`s Prince George and Princess Charlotte. You see them there together. Don`t go anywhere. We`ll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END