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Hardball with Chris Matthews, Transcript 11/4/2016

Guests: Jonathan Tamari, Rudy Giuliani, Cornell Belcher, Laura Bassett, Matt Schlapp

Show: HARDBALL Date: November 4, 2016 Guest: Jonathan Tamari, Rudy Giuliani, Cornell Belcher, Laura Bassett, Matt Schlapp

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: The reckoning.

Let`s play HARDBALL.

Good evening. I`m Chris Matthews in Washington.

Well, this morning -- actually, this Monday evening, President Barack Obama, first lady Michelle Obama, President Clinton, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton will all appear at a giant election eve rally in Philadelphia. HARDBALL will be there this Monday night live from 6:00 to 8:00.

Monday evening`s election eve rally is part of a professional get-out-the- vote effort in a state, Pennsylvania, where Hillary Clinton is protected by an electoral firewall.

Donald Trump and his Republicans would need to breach that wall or lose the presidential election on Tuesday. That`s been my call for weeks. I`m sticking with it.

Protecting that firewall block by block, street by street is the last great political machine in this country, the Democratic City Committee of Philadelphia. Today, I sat inside the room as U.S. Congressman Bob Brady, the chairman or boss of the Philadelphia Democratic machine, held their final meeting before election.

It`s the meeting where they share in accepting their mission and get the street money to get out and meet it. When they get back to their wards, they distribute their money to their dozens of committee people. My grandfather used to be one. The committee people then hire the workers for election day, and the workers begin knocking on every door in the city in the morning and again in the afternoon on election day until that person damn well gets out to the polling place.

The stakes are high. Philadelphia, one of 67 counties in the state, reliably brings in a giant enough vote to swamp the rest of Pennsylvania. In the last presidential election, for example, 85 percent of Philadelphia went for President Obama, creating a city-wide plurality of almost half a million votes. That`s net half a million.

Democratic congressman Bob Brady who`s been the chairman of the committee - - Democratic City Committee for 30 years told me he`s confident his efforts will ensure Philadelphia and Pennsylvania gets his friend Hillary Clinton elected president on Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEWS: Explain why Republicans, who are professional people like yourself, seem to always think they can carry Pennsylvania? Every year, they target it, it seems, and every year, they get beaten. What`s that about?

REP. BOB BRADY (D), PENNSYLVANIA: It`s called propaganda. That`s what it`s called. They never beat us. They`re never going to beat us. And they can`t beat us by any amount.

They`ve never beat us, and we always turn out 450, 60, 70, 480,000 majority and be able to carry the rest. Always and always will. And we`ll do that again on Tuesday.

MATTHEWS: What you have is a ground game, old school -- old school, resources on the street. You`ve got committee people in every voting division. You cover the whole city, 67-plus wards. They don`t have anything like that, do that.

BRADY: Sixty-nine wards. We cover every polling place. We cover every division. We have committee people in the 1,683 divisions that we have (INAUDIBLE) city. Probably without question the last Democratic Party organization in the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, that`s big machine. This is the kind of political organizing don`t see on television. This is street level, political machine, grinding out the votes ward by ward, division by division, block by block. It`s the ground game that Hillary Clinton`s got -- remember this on Tuesday night -- and Donald Trump doesn`t. In a close race, which this may well be Tuesday night, it`s the street campaign backed by street money that turns out the vote and wins the big elections.

Joining me right now is NBC`s Hallie Jackson, Joy Reid, host of AM JOY on MSNBC, and Jonathan Tamari, correspondent with "The Philadelphia Inquirer" down here.

Look, Hallie, I wanted to try to cover the part of the campaign you don`t usually see, and that`s inside the ward hall there.

HALLIE JACKSON, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

MATTHEWS: The Robert Brady building, in fact, and Northern Liberties (ph) in Philadelphia, all those ward leaders, African-American, white guys, men and women, they`ve been there forever. They know their business. They get the street money, they go out to the committee people and they bring in the vote. They start knocking on doors, one guy told me 6:30 in the morning. They go back at 11:00 o`clock in the morning. They go at 4:30 in the afternoon. They damn well make sure their vote comes out.

How does Trump beat that in Pennsylvania?

JACKSON: By getting out of Philadelphia. I mean, that`s -- that`s the -- that`s the entire strategy, Chris, because when you look at what`s happening in the rest of the state, right, that is a place where, according to some recent polling this month, Trump was ahead maybe 11 points statewide or so, but in certain parts of the state, but overall, it was Clinton who had the advantage.

When you look at what is happening in the collar (ph) counties -- you know this -- look at a place like Bucks County. We talk about it all this time on this show...

MATTHEWS: Yes.

JACKSON: ... a place that went -- it was 4,000 votes separating the winner and the loser back in 2012. And that (INAUDIBLE) a little bit of a microcosm of the election. That is a place where Hillary Clinton is blowing Donald Trump out of the water with suburban white women...

MATTHEWS: Four counties...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You`re right. Hallie...

JACKSON: Yes, Bucks...

MATTHEWS: ... four counties, the one you`re from, Bucks, the other three, Delaware, Montgomery and Chester, all went between 54 percent and 60 percent Barack Obama. And they`re largely white counties. They`re suburban. And the fact is, they were that big.

Imagine how they`re going to be with women voters. So in addition to the almost half million votes that the city machine cooks up or brings in, you got another huge percentage of the state.

I want to go to Joy on this. This -- people don`t underestimate -- You look at the map of this country, it`s all red, except it`s blue most of the time because in the areas where people live, congested big city areas, liberals, minorities, big cities, they dominate presidential elections. And in Philadelphia, that one county out of 67 counties in Pennsylvania dominates the state because that`s where so many people live.

JOY REID, HOST, AM JOY: Yes, absolutely, Chris. I went into a deep dive wormhole on Pennsylvania today, reading one of Ray Tashera`s (ph) old sort of, you know, bibles of the state. And you`re absolutely right. You have this big behemoth that is Philadelphia, and then you have the Philadelphia suburbs, where Philadelphia is such a large non-white population, and then you have a larger than average college-educated white population.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

REID: You compare that to the rest of the state, where you have a larger working class population and a rural population, but they`re just numerically not as large.

And so the challenge for Republicans every single cycle, when they say they can win Pennsylvania because it`s demographically similar, let`s say, to Ohio -- so demographically, yes, they`re about the same, about the same size African-American vote. But the way that Philadelphia is concentrated -- those Philadelphia suburbs are so full of white college-educated voters, those are just the kinds of voters who are trending toward the Democratic Party.

And Pennsylvania, just interestingly enough, against Ohio, it has a slightly higher college-educated white population, a slightly higher median income. It`s even an older population. But it`s just built just enough in the Democrats` favor that if you can turn out those suburban white voters and those African-American voters in Philadelphia, that`s the state.

MATTHEWS: Yes. Let me go to Jonathan on this because -- let me explain street money, what it is. My grandfather used to get it, like, $35 every election, whatever, when he was a committeeman in north Philly. What you do is you get -- the ward leaders get a chunk of money, about $200 per voting division. Then they take it to the committee people, two in each voting division. They use it to pay for people`s lunches. They use it to give some money to the workers. It`s very professional.

And this is the way it`s been going on for years. You go out and vote because people come to your door and pound on that door until you get out there and vote. It`s very professional and it`s been going on for -- I think since at least the early `50s, what I got experience with it, hearing about it.

JONATHAN TAMARI, "PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER": Yes, absolutely. I mean, look, it`s a very old-school political machine there. You`ve got strong labor unions that are very tied into the Democratic Party there. And as Joy and Hallie were talking about, you got Philadelphia. It is -- in any swing state, it`s the largest city that`s in any swing state...

MATTHEWS: Well, how do Republicans compete with that when they don`t have anything like that? They don`t have a machine.

TAMARI: They don`t have anything. And that`s why Republicans are able to win in off-year elections, when folks in Philadelphia and a lot of the Democratic voters don`t show up in the same level of force as they do in the kind of presidential years.

What we`ve seen in presidential years since 1992, Philadelphia and those collar counties have pushed Pennsylvania blue.

MATTHEWS: Hallie Jackson, I want to ask you -- and Joy, as well. I thought it was a pretty funny line, but I think he meant it. I said to Bob Brady, who`s the boss of the city, the U.S. congressman and the chairman of that committee up there, of the machine -- I said, Why do Republicans keep having this lust for Pennsylvania? It`s the craziest thing. Every -- Oh,we`re going to get Pennsylvania -- I`ll go to Joy on this. You seem to be enjoying this.

Joy, why do they -- why do they always say, Oh, we`re going to get Pennsylvania this year, and they never, never, ever -- it`s like Lucy and the football or Charlie Brown!

(LAUGHTER)

REID: Every time!

MATTHEWS: And it never happens, at the big pumpkin. It doesn`t happen.

REID: Every...

MATTHEWS: And he said propaganda. They convince themselves they can do it. Your thoughts.

REID: Every four years, Republicans swear the state they`re going to flip is Philadelphia (sic). They said it in `04. They said it in `08. They said it in `12. I think that Pennsylvania is so enticing to them, Chris, because it does feel like a state that`s so much like Ohio that they should be able to flip it.

But you just made the point. Metrics and data don`t win campaigns. Campaigns win campaigns. And Democrats have a heck of a machine in Pennsylvania. It gets those voters out. It knocks on those doors. It gets to those wards. You`ve got an entrenched political machinery that the Democrats just have and Republicans don`t.

And even if Republicans did, that same kind of machinery doesn`t work as well in rural counties. That`s a bigger lift. They`d need a much bigger staff to try to pull people out of those rural counties than Democrats can do in a concentrated...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You talk about concentrated, concentrated votes, too. The Democrats -- there`s 59 voting divisions in Philadelphia that didn`t get a single vote for Mitt Romney last time. That`s not cheating, that`s a fact.

These are poor African-American voters, many of them poor people. They are Democrats to their roots. And all you`ve got to do is get them to vote, and they`re going to vote Democrat.

Anyway, just -- look at this. This is big news nationally, just came in tonight. ABC News tracking poll out tonight shows a rebound for Clinton. She`s now up by 4 points over Trump, 47 to 43. That`s a swing over the last five days of 5 points.

Just remember this week began with us reporting that Trump was up by 1 vote (sic) over Hillary in that same poll. Now she`s up by 4, a 5-vote (sic) swing. New polls today from PPP also show Clinton with an edge over Donald Trump in five crucial battleground states, up by 2 in North Carolina -- that could be close -- 3 in Nevada. She`s ahead by 4 in Pennsylvania -- I think more than that -- 5 points in New Hampshire, and she`s up by 7 in Wisconsin. However, Trump is closing slightly in Michigan, where Clinton now leads by just 4 points, 42 to 38.

Hallie, your thoughts about this race.

JACKSON: A couple of...

MATTHEWS: Tell us where you sense, when you cover this -- where you think it`s going to come out Tuesday night. Where are we going to be scratching our heads, saying, This is a tough one?

JACKSON: So you just put up a poll of Michigan, Chris, and I will tell you that is where the Trump campaign believes that they have a very good shot, or at least the best shot of scaling that so-called blue wall that we talk about of those sort of Rust-Belty kind of states like Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania.

I think Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, real uphill battles, Wisconsin in particular, when you look at where the polling is. But that poll you just showed out of Michigan, that is something that I believe is giving the Trump campaign reason to be hopeful about that state. You saw Hillary Clinton there today.

You talk about a place like Pennsylvania. One of our colleagues here, Joe Scarborough, calls it fool`s gold for Republicans. And that`s kind of what it is. It`s also, potentially for Republicans -- if Trump does well there -- remember, why every year? As Joy pointed out, we saw it in `04, `08, we saw it in `12, with Republicans thinking they could flip PA or take PA.

But (INAUDIBLE) Republicans this year felt like they have a very unique candidate. Donald Trump is not Mitt Romney. Donald Trump is somebody who is speaking to that working class voter, that white man that`s out in sort of the middle of the state between Pittsburgh and Philly. And so there was -- that was driving a lot of the reason for optimism on Pennsylvania.

And the other bellwether, I think, if you`re looking at East Coast state (ph), if we`re looking ahead to Tuesday night when the polls start to close on the East Coast, what happens in New Hampshire? Because that is another state where the polls are tightening in a real way...

MATTHEWS: But so what? To be blunt, so what about New Hampshire if it`s not close?

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: New Hampshire matters if it`s close.

JACKSON: Sure, sure.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You`re right. You`re right. I shouldn`t cut you off because it is a bellwether. But it`s not a big electoral...

JACKSON: No, no!

MATTHEWS: ... powderkeg there.

JACKSON: But it`s an indication of where this thing`s going. I had one Republican operative say to me yesterday, they said, If she wins New Hampshire, he says, I`m turning off the TV.

MATTHEWS: It was clear from Congressman Brady`s meeting today of the ward leaders that the prospect of a Trump presidency was enough to motivate his fellow committee members. Here`s how he spoke about the Trump -- the Trumpster at the -- you got to watch. This is really big city rah-rah. I want Jonathan to comment on this. Let`s watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRADY: I ain`t going to rile you guys up. You`re already riled up. You know what we got to do. You know this guy`s got circuits missing somewhere, and he`s picking on a lady. And you can`t bully the city of Philadelphia. Nobody can bully the city of Philadelphia!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: There`s a great feeling in that room, Jonathan. It`s obviously a diverse crowd, African-American, white guys, different ethnic groups. They all get along. They all know each other. This is an old, encrusted machine. But the ladies -- I just love the way Bob Brady talks, He`s messing with the ladies.

(LAUGHTER)

TAMARI: Yes, that is -- that`s Bob Brady, right? I mean, he`s a union leader. He`s, you know...

MATTHEWS: Carpenters.

TAMARI: Right, carpenter`s union leader.

MATTHEWS: He`s real.

TAMARI: Yes, I mean...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... political touch.

TAMARI: Even when he`s down here in the House -- he`s a congressman, but that`s kind of how he is all the time.

MATTHEWS: I`ll tell you guys, Hallie and Joy, you`re younger than me and you`re watching this, and so is Jonathan -- the old political touch is something to watch.

REID: It is.

MATTHEWS: Joy, you know what I mean.

REID: Yes.

MATTHEWS: The ability to connect with everybody of every background, fence-mend if somebody gets a little offended, immediately make friends with them again. It`s a joy to watch the old politics. Whatever you think of political machines -- and I know Republicans hate them because they don`t have one!

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Anyway, thank, Hallie Jackson.

REID: I love it!

MATTHEWS: Thank you, Joy Reid. And thank you, Jonathan Tamari of "The Philadelphia Inquirer."

Join me for a special two-hour edition, as I said, of HARDBALL on the eve of the election. We`ll be live from Philly starting at 6:00 Eastern. And that`s where Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, the president, the first lady and Chelsea Clinton are holding their final -- by the way, the big five are coming to the city of the big five. We`re talking basketball.

Coming up -- just days after FBI director James Comey sent word that the bureau was investigating new e-mails connected with Secretary Clinton`s private server, Trump supporter Rudy Giuliani promised a couple surprises that would change the race. When we return, I`ll ask the mayor about how he knew -- how`d he know it was coming.

Plus, there`s a verdict in the "bridge-gate" trial. Two of Chris Christie`s top aides are found guilty of all charges, felony charges. And now the governor -- he just canceled his campaign events in New Hampshire for Trump.

And with four days to go, you can tell a lot about the Clinton and Trump campaigns, both of them. Think about the race based on where the candidates are going. Wherever they go, they know they have to win. We`ll get back with that with the roundtable tonight.

Finally, my "election diary" on which -- where the race is headed as we enter the final weekend of campaigning. We`re getting close to the stuff, the reality of who`s going to win.

And this is HARDBALL, the place for politics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: President Obama`s about to take the stage at a rally in the all- important state of North Carolina. He`s in Charlotte tonight.

And earlier today, MSNBC`s Reverend Al Sharpton caught up with the president after his rally in Fayetteville to talk to him about the need to keep politics out of the FBI. Well, here we go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Historically, both under Democratic and Republican administrations, our goal has been and should be that our investigators and our prosecutors are independent of politics, that they`re not politicized, that they`re not used as a weapon to advantage either side in partisan arguments. And I want to make sure that we continue with that tradition and with that norm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, you can watch the Reverend Sharpton, of course, and his interview with President Obama tonight at 8:00 Eastern on ALL IN with Chris Hayes. He`s joining that show tonight at 8:00.

And we`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: ... surprise or two that you`re going to hear about in the next few days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes (INAUDIBLE)

GIULIANI: I mean -- I mean -- I`m talking about some pretty big surprise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard you say that this morning. What do you mean?

GIULIANI: You`ll see.

(LAUGHTER)

GIULIANI: We got a couple things up our sleeve that should turn this around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Back to HARDBALL. That was former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, one of Donald Trump`s top surrogates, teasing something big coming. Two days later, FBI director James Comey announced to Congress that the bureau of the FBI was investigating newly discovered e-mails. Well, was the timing of Giuliani`s big tease coincidental? He was asked about that earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: a couple of days before this all broke, you were on with Martha MacCallum and looked at Martha and you go, Look out. Something`s coming down. And certainly,it did. What did you know? And a lot of other networks are pointing that out as if you were a part of that.

GIULIANI: Well, it`s very simple. I`m not part of it at all. All I heard were former FBI agents telling me that there`s a revolution going on inside the FBI and it`s now at a boiling point. And...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you had a general idea that something was coming.

GIULIANI: I had expected this for the last -- honestly, to tell you the truth, I thought it was going to be about three or four weeks ago.

I did nothing to get it out. I had no role in it. Did I hear about it? You`re darn right I heard about it. And I can`t even repeat the language that I heard from the former FBI.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: This afternoon on MSNBC, Congressman Maxine Waters of California said Giuliani should be investigated for this. Let`s watch that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: The leaks that have gone out, the division that appears to be in the FBI is unprecedented! Nobody expected that you would have false information coming out from the FBI. And Giuliani needs to be investigated also because he has a role in this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, two other members of Congress, Elijah Cummings and John Conyers of Detroit, also called for an investigation into leaks by the FBI. Well, late today, Mayor Giuliani said he never received any information about the ongoing FBI investigation from employees, live employees, current ones, in the FBI.

Joining me right now is Mayor Giuliani. This is -- Mayor, thank you so much for coming on. I`m trying to figure out the timeline here. According to James Comey, the FBI director, he didn`t get this information about these e-mails in Anthony Weiner`s laptop until Thursday.

You were talking on Wednesday, the day before, about some -- this thing coming.

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: No, no. I...

MATTHEWS: How did you get a 24-hour -- no, you had a 24-hour jump on Comey, according to what you were saying.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: How did that happen?

GIULIANI: I would have to have been a prophet.

I was not talking about these things coming. What I was talking about, Chris, was the advertising we`re doing this weekend. We have been debating for about...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You were teasing with that anchorwoman that you had an advertising plan?

GIULIANI: No, no, no, no, no.

MATTHEWS: You sounded like you had something really good ready to come.

GIULIANI: Chris, you want to hear my answer?

MATTHEWS: I want to hear -- yes.

GIULIANI: What we were talking about was, I have been working on a speech, and I have been working on a presentation, where he was going to buy a lot of time at the very end to lay out his message.

We had about four different ways we were going to do it. And that`s what I was talking about. I had no idea that Jim Comey was going to do what he was going to do the day that he did it, nor did I ever think he was going to do it.

What I did know about, which is quite true, for about four months is that the FBI was very, very upset about the way Jim Comey had handled the case.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

GIULIANI: But I heard that from former FBI agents, not from current FBI agents. I haven`t spoken to a current FBI agent, I don`t think, in the last nine months.

MATTHEWS: So then you`re innocent of knowing any inside information on the possible prosecution...

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: About Comey? Absolutely.

MATTHEWS: No, any inside -- you have no inside information, as of this moment, from the FBI?

GIULIANI: Correct. All my information comes from...

MATTHEWS: OK. So you don`t know anything more about the case than what you are thinking about as a private citizen right now? You don`t have any inside information as to possible guilt of Hillary Clinton?

GIULIANI: Absolutely right. Absolutely right.

Everything I know comes from...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: OK. OK.

So, what you say about Hillary being guilty is just a former prosecutor, yourself, talking about it?

GIULIANI: I said that a year ago.

MATTHEWS: You had no advantage over it -- yes, but you had no advantage?

OK, here`s the question. Hillary Clinton, when she became secretary of state -- this is public information -- chose to have a private server. I don`t know anything about this stuff, but she chose to have her own. Obviously, she wanted to keep it private.

By your argument, I believe, that was a felony.

GIULIANI: I would say the fact that she...

MATTHEWS: Doing that at that time, in other words, she committed a felony the moment she became secretary of state?

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: No, not the moment that -- no, not the moment that she did it.

But when it became apparent that these things were all on private servers, she wasn`t using the State Department server, she was exposing...

MATTHEWS: But she chose to do that the first day.

GIULIANI: She was -- let me -- let me finish, Chris.

She was exposing this information to hacking. She was exposing this information to anyone who could take it from her. I would be shocked if the Chinese, the Iranians, the Russians and, I don`t know, some little jerky kid, didn`t hack some of this information.

MATTHEWS: Well, they can hack the State Department, too. They can hack the State Department, too.

GIULIANI: Yes, but the State Department has more control over it.

MATTHEWS: But you`re saying that was a felony to make that choice.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: And then when you make the choice between what`s public and what`s private, it`s a State Department employee making the choice, not your lackeys, not your people.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You`re the lawyer. You`re the lawyer, Mayor. I`m going to ask you one more time, because I don`t get that.

If it`s a felony to have a private server, and she made that decision the day she was -- basically, when she realized she was going to accept the appointment as secretary of state, what was her motive? What was her criminal intent then? You`re suggesting a crime here, and I can`t figure out when it occurred.

GIULIANI: The crime is very, very simple. I think the 33,000 e-mails that she destroyed shows the connection...

MATTHEWS: Oh, that`s a crime?

GIULIANI: ... between the Clinton Foundation and Hillary Clinton.

MATTHEWS: OK.

GIULIANI: She knew from the beginning they were going to sell out the State Department.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: What inside information do you have on that?

GIULIANI: She was going -- I`m telling you my -- my inference from everything I read, "Clinton Cash," "The New York Times," "The Washington Post," "The Wall Street Journal."

MATTHEWS: Yes, but she...

GIULIANI: I`m telling you my...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: OK, you also know the law. You know what I know, Mayor. You know just what I know.

GIULIANI: There is a prima facie case.

MATTHEWS: The law says that the State Department officials get to decide what is private, and they yield back to the government what is not.

GIULIANI: Jim Comey in July laid out a prima facie case that I could take to a grand jury.

The fact that -- here is what I didn`t know until recently, that the Justice Department blocked a grand jury of this investigation. That is corruption and outrageous.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: OK. Do you think -- do you trust the honor of Jim Comey?

GIULIANI: If that were you or me, that case would go before a grand jury. And the Justice Department is corrupt. Obama`s Justice Department corrupted this investigation.

MATTHEWS: OK. That`s just a charge. That`s just a charge.

GIULIANI: And the fact that they have Podesta`s lawyer involved in this investigation...

MATTHEWS: OK.

GIULIANI: ... the guy that Podesta said kept him out of jail, is an outrage. It is a desecration of what the Justice Department stands for.

MATTHEWS: OK. But these kind of charges, Mayor, are not -- OK.

These charges have become what we do in this country now. It sounds like a Third World country. All of a sudden -- Newt Gingrich used to say the Democratic leadership in Congress was corrupt. This word corrupt is thrown around all the time now. Everybody`s corrupt on the other side. You`re just doing that.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: The Justice Department corrupted this investigation.

MATTHEWS: How did they? Because she recused herself.

GIULIANI: When the FBI went to them and asked them for a grand jury in February on the Clinton Foundation, they should have given them a grand jury. And we would have this thing cleaned up by now.

MATTHEWS: OK.

GIULIANI: The reason we`re going through this right now is because Hillary Clinton and her lackeys in the Justice Department, people who work for her, people who defended Podesta, someone Podesta said kept him out of jail, is involved in this investigation?

Give me a break. That would have never have happened in a Justice Department that I know.

MATTHEWS: OK. OK.

Let me ask you about your common sense. You are a former prosecutor. You have a certain instinct for how to handle these cases. It`s your judgment. OK. You`re also a partisan politician, like everybody else on this show. I understand that.

GIULIANI: Right.

MATTHEWS: Look at Chris Christie.

His two top people, one works right across the room from him, like a hundred feet from him. She`s running this scheme. She just got convicted of several felonies. She`s going to spend a lot of time in serious prison, along with Baroni.

They were carrying out a political scheme to punish somebody, a mayor of Fort Lee, who wouldn`t go along with the plan to endorse the governor for reelection. OK.

Do you honestly believe that Chris Christie didn`t know that was going on a hundred feet from him?

GIULIANI: As far as I know, Chris...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: That this whole strategy -- they say he knew. They say he knew under oath.

GIULIANI: As far as I know, Chris Christie is not under FBI investigation. Hillary Clinton is under FBI investigation because there are 650,000 e- mails on the private server of a sexual pervert.

MATTHEWS: But, Mayor, you are out freebooting. You are out freebooting, saying who would have -- go to jail.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: No, you are. What you are is, you`re changing the subject.

MATTHEWS: I`m asking you. I`m just asking you.

GIULIANI: And what`s the difference -- what`s the difference whether Chris Christie knew or didn`t know...

MATTHEWS: So, Christie walks, but Hillary Clinton goes to jail?

GIULIANI: ... if Hillary Clinton was exposing top-secret information to our enemies?

MATTHEWS: OK.

GIULIANI: It doesn`t make it right that she was doing that because you may think that Chris Christie did something wrong.

MATTHEWS: OK.

GIULIANI: And she shouldn`t be president of the United States if she is extremely reckless in the handling of top-secret information.

MATTHEWS: I`m asking you, do you think he did something wrong? Did you think Chris Christie did something wrong? OK. I just want you to be as vigorous in prosecuting a Republican.

GIULIANI: What you`re doing is pivoting from the issue of the person who is running for president.

MATTHEWS: Of course I am. I`m trying to find equal treatment here.

GIULIANI: Chris Christie is not running for president. And he`s not under investigation for the FBI.

MATTHEWS: OK.

He did. He did.

The reason he`s not running is because of what just happened at the bridge.

GIULIANI: He did run, and he lost.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: I know.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: He ran, and he lost.

MATTHEWS: OK. And you give him a clean bill of health?

GIULIANI: And he`s not under FBI investigation. Hillary Clinton is. And we haven`t even talked about the Clinton Foundation...

MATTHEWS: OK, great. I just want to ask you one question

GIULIANI: ... which is a multimillion-dollar fraud and racketeering case.

MATTHEWS: OK. Are you willing to give Chris Christie a clean bill of health?

GIULIANI: I am willing to say that I -- Chris is my friend. I trust him.

MATTHEWS: OK.

GIULIANI: He tells me he didn`t know. I believe it.

If you prove to me he did know, I have to change my mind. If you tell me that the two people who were on trial trying to get off said what they had to say, I have been through a lot of trials. I don`t know how much weight I would give that.

MATTHEWS: OK.

GIULIANI: On the other hand, if you want me to explain how the heck Bill Clinton got a $1.5 million speaking fee and Hillary went and got a break for UBS and got them off the hook for 50,000 identities and then Bill got a $1.5 million speaking fee...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: I know, but I just want to point out -- OK, Mayor.

GIULIANI: Having come from New York, like you came from Philadelphia, I know what that is. That`s a bribe.

MATTHEWS: OK, let me just tell you this. You`re doing a lot of this because of intuition and partisanship. And it`s not from inside information.

GIULIANI: I`m doing it...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Because you can`t have it both ways. You can`t say you haven`t talked to the FBI, but you know what the FBI ought to be doing.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: Prima facie.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Prima facie, OK.

GIULIANI: I have talked to former FBI agents, no current FBI agents.

MATTHEWS: OK.

GIULIANI: I wouldn`t put a current FBI agent in that position, unless I was their attorney. And I`m not.

MATTHEWS: OK. But not anybody who`s ever worked on this case, right?

GIULIANI: I have not talked to anyone that has worked on this case. I have talked to former FBI.

MATTHEWS: OK, thank you. That`s what I know.

So, in other words, you are as unaware of this case as anybody else who`s read the newspapers. Thank you. You read the newspapers.

GIULIANI: When Jim Comey said this, totally shocked.

MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you.

GIULIANI: Thank you.

MATTHEWS: Mayor Giuliani, thanks. Always welcome.

I`m joined right now by the Washington bureau chief from "Mother Jones," David Corn, for the rebuttal.

Your thoughts here?

DAVID CORN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, there...

MATTHEWS: Let`s go through the points here.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: He said he doesn`t have any information from inside the FBI. It`s from former members. And I have heard this story from everybody. The former FBI guys are really mad because they didn`t get Hillary.

Go.

CORN: Well, what you have is people inside the FBI seem to be leaking, either directly to...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Do you know that?

CORN: I said, seem to be leaking, either directly to journalists or to former FBI people, who then...

MATTHEWS: Evidence? Evidence?

CORN: Well, I trust it when, you know, FOX News says, we have spoken to FBI sources.

MATTHEWS: The FBI is your source? I mean, the FOX News...

(CROSSTALK)

CORN: No, no, I`m saying , this is what -- we see "The Wall Street Journal" and others saying, the FBI is ticked off. And we hear him saying they`re mad because...

(CROSSTALK)

CORN: It is.

But a grand jury investigation sometimes shouldn`t go forward. Just because it doesn`t go forward, I understand why agents may be upset. That doesn`t mean it`s being blocked. He said time and time again that Hillary Clinton is under investigation. She is not under investigation in terms of the e-mails.

MATTHEWS: I know. By the way...

CORN: You know, he just keeps saying this stuff.

MATTHEWS: I know. Some people don`t like something and just -- a lot of people don`t like the O.J. jury. You don`t -- O.J. case. You`re not going to have another one. OK? You just have to live with it.

CORN: I saw Rudy at the last debate. He looked at me, his face full of lot of anger. He said: "You know what? She should be in jail now," now, without even a trial. She should be in jail.

He has gone around the bend.

MATTHEWS: I think it`s vigilante -- vigilante justice.

Anyway, thank you, because that`s what he thinks.

CORN: Well, that`s all it is. And that`s what it`s worth.

MATTHEWS: But, you know, that`s what he thinks.

Up next: the verdict in the Bridgegate trial. Jersey Governor Chris Christie`s two aides are found guilty of all charges. Now Christie`s hitting the trail for Trump?

Well, that`s ahead.

And this is HARDBALL, the place for politics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Tonight, as a former federal prosecutor, I welcome the opportunity to hold Hillary Rodham Clinton accountable for her performance and her character.

AUDIENCE: Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.

That was Governor Chris Christie this past July leading the case against Hillary Clinton during the Republican Convention.

Well, today, a New Jersey jury found two of his, Christie`s, former aides, Bridget Kelly and Bill Baroni, guilty of creating a traffic jam near the George Washington Bridge in a scheme to punish the Mayor of Fort Lee for not supporting Christie`s reelection.

Kelly and Baroni were found guilty of nine felony counts of fraud, wire fraud, and conspiracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL FISHMAN, U.S. ATTORNEY, DISTRICT OF NEW JERSEY: Our view was quite clear, that this was way more than a dirty trick. This was an assault on the Port Authority`s resources. It was an assault on the civil rights of the people of Fort Lee.

It was done knowingly, willfully, intentionally, and voluntarily by David Wildstein, in concert with Bill Baroni and Bridget kelly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Both Kelly and Baroni testified in court that Christie was aware of the lane closings beforehand. Governor Christie has denied that.

In a statement today, he said -- quote -- "No believable evidence was presented to contradict that fact. Anything said to the contrary over the past six weeks in court is simply untrue. I will set the record straight in the coming days regarding the lies that were told by the media and in the courtroom."

Well, for more, I`m joined by MSNBC political correspondent Steve -- you have been all over this, Steve Kornacki. You are great on this.

I`m just trying to figure this out. If you`re a juror and you voted to convict, and these are serious charges with serious sentences perhaps coming for Ms. Kelly and for Baroni, do you believe the governor was behind this?

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: This is the thing, and this is why -- the day before this happened, there was a ruling made by the judge about the instructions to the jury.

And the judge basically said to a question that the jury asked, you did not have to believe that Bridget Kelly and Bill Baroni were aware that this was a payback scheme as they were carrying it out. They didn`t have to know all of the details of the nature of this. You just had to know that they understood what was going on, they understood this was not on the up-and- up, what they were doing, and that they were doing it.

The defense attorney, when the judge made the determination, said, you just found them guilty, set the bar so low, that the jury -- because the strategy of the defense really had been they hoped that, in that jurors room, the jurors looked at this and they said, why isn`t Christie the one on trial? Why are we getting the underling? Why are getting these people...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Well, let me just ask you a logic question, which doesn`t always work with juries, I guess.

Why would they do this if it wasn`t for the political purposes of their boss? They`re not getting 5 cents out of this. They`re not getting any personal gain, nothing out of this.

KORNACKI: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Bridget Kelly is a worker bee, working, what, 100 feet from the governor`s office, literally, right, across the room.

KORNACKI: Yes.

MATTHEWS: She`s doing this for the boss. The boss knows she`s doing it for the boss. Right? What`s missing here? She`s the agent. She`s the agent. Is she an agent or not?

(CROSSTALK)

KORNACKI: This is why it was so tough for the defense, especially Bridget Kelly`s defense in this case, because of what they couldn`t say.

MATTHEWS: OK.

KORNACKI: They sort of had to wink at the jury. They couldn`t say, yes, Bridget understood the essence of what was happening here. She knew there was some kind of payback scheme...

MATTHEWS: Oh.

KORNACKI: ... because she had all of these e-mails. Ultimately, that`s what this came back to.

MATTHEWS: OK. So the conundrum was, she couldn`t deny guilt and also assign guilt to the governor.

(CROSSTALK)

KORNACKI: What they were trying to say was, sure, she knew, but, really, it should be Christie.

MATTHEWS: No. In other words, in denying guilt on herself, she couldn`t apply the guilt to the governor.

KORNACKI: That`s right.

MATTHEWS: What a conundrum.

KORNACKI: So, they were hoping the jury would kind of put that together and think about it.

MATTHEWS: OK, what is -- I don`t know if you know much about the law in this case, but what can -- they`re going to appeal, obviously, the two people. They appeal.

KORNACKI: Right.

MATTHEWS: They always say they appeal. What about the governor? Is he vulnerable here to a subsequent indictment?

KORNACKI: No.

And I think because the determination was made a year-and-a-half ago by the federal prosecutors that they were not going to go after Chris Christie on this, they were not going to indict Chris Christie on this.

Now, I thought what was interesting was, when this trial ended today, when the verdict was reached and the press got a crack at Paul Fishman -- you just heard from him there -- all the questions were, why didn`t you go after Chris Christie? You had all of this testimony. Your start witness, David Wildstein...

MATTHEWS: Who`s Paul Fishman?

KORNACKI: Paul Fishman is the U.S. attorney who brought the case.

His star witness who made the case on the stand, David Wildstein, said, during this shutdown, I talked to Chris Christie.

MATTHEWS: During the time?

KORNACKI: During it, 9/11, three days in, three days to go, I talked to him. He understood.

MATTHEWS: Well, here`s the key thing for Governor Christie. If he knew this thing was going to happen beforehand, and he damned well knew why it was going to happen, why didn`t he blow the whistle and say, don`t do it?

KORNACKI: Well, here`s the...

MATTHEWS: Why didn`t he just do it?

KORNACKI: The suspicion about Christie is this.

I don`t know if it was beforehand or if it was two days into it. He got it. He understood who David Wildstein was. He understood, if there`s suddenly a traffic jam, this Democratic mayor who hasn`t endorsed him, as he is trying to run up the score...

MATTHEWS: I got it.

KORNACKI: He got it. And he thought, I`m not going to ever have any piece of paper that connects me to this. I`m not going to have any recording. And I can always deny.

MATTHEWS: OK.

OK, when he very sarcastically said to the reporters, "Yes, I`m the guy that went out there and put the cones out on the highway," right," he knew that he knew.

KORNACKI: Well, that`s some of the testimony that came out, that he had had phone confessions with people.

MATTHEWS: So, he knew at the time he was sarcastically answering those reporters. He knew he had something to do with putting those cones out there.

KORNACKI: And that he -- people had told him, hey, you know what? Bridget Kelly, David Wildstein, something was happening here. Those conversations had been taking place.

MATTHEWS: OK. You know what I think he was saying? I didn`t do it. They did it.

KORNACKI: Plausible deniability.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Yes, they did it. I didn`t do it. They did it.

Anyway, thank you, Steve Kornacki.

KORNACKI: Sure.

MATTHEWS: It`s one of the dangers, by the way, of working for a politician. Get orders up front. Don`t do something, you know, wacky and across the line or even near the line.

KORNACKI: Instead, it`s Bridget`s e-mail, "Time for some traffic problems."

MATTHEWS: Yes. No, she`s got the problems anyway.

Up next, the final push -- although I root for her. I don`t -- I hate to see somebody like her, with all those kids, going to prison. Geez.

Anyway, Clinton and Trump fight it out in those key battleground states. That`s coming up. And where they`re headed, just look at their travel plans for this weekend. You have got to figure out all about where they think they have got to win.

Anyway, you`re watching HARDBALL, the place for politics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC ANCHOR: Welcome back to HARDBALL.

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton continue to fight it out, duke it out today in the battleground states. Trump started the day off in New Hampshire, where he admonished Clinton -- there`s a nice word -- for her e- mail scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How can Hillary manage this country when she can`t even manage her e-mails? Did you ever see -- hey, folks, let`s forget all of this stuff. What a mess. What a mess.

She`ll be under investigation for years. She`ll be with trials. Our country, we have to get back to work, right?

(CROWD CHANTING: LOCK HER UP!)

Hillary is engaged in a massive criminal enterprise and cover-up. She created an illegal e-mail server to shield her criminal activity. If she were to win, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, Hillary Clinton started the day at a rally in Heinz Field out in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where she went after Trump`s character. Here we go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Imagine it`s Donald Trump, standing in front of the capitol. And we already know a lot about him. Someone who demeans women, mocks people with disabilities, insults African- Americans and Latinos, and demonizes immigrants and Muslims and pits people against each other. Instead of pulling us together, and think about what it would mean to entrust the nuclear codes to someone, with a very thin skin, who lashes out at anyone who challenges him. Imagine how easily it could be that Donald Trump would feel insulted and start a real war, not just a Twitter war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, both candidates, of course, are pushing hard in the final push. Clinton`s in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Ohio today. Pennsylvania, Florida, and New Hampshire this weekend. Her final stop will be a big nighttime rally in Philadelphia, as I said, on Monday evening. We`ll be there.

Also, Bill Clinton, the former president will be there. The Obamas, husband and wife, will be there. President Obama and the first lady all going to be here. Trump is going to be in New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania as well today. He`s also in North Carolina, Ohio, Florida, Nevada, Wisconsin, Colorado, Iowa, and New Hampshire between now and Monday.

Well, let`s bring in the HARDBALL roundtable. Cornell Belcher, he`s a Democratic pollster. Laura Bassett covers politics for "The Huffington Post." And Matt Schlapp is president of the American Conservative Union.

Right across the room here, what can you read from the geography of these guys as they two campaign feverishly in the next several days?

CORNELL BELCHER, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: I`m surprised by it, because we saw this head fake also in 2012, when I was on Obama campaign. I`m surprised by how many times Republicans go down the rabbit hole in Pennsylvania. I really do. I think outside of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, they see Alabama, and they think, this state should be ours.

Right now, if I were in the Trump campaign, I would be spending a lot more time in Ohio and North Carolina, than I would be falling for the rabbit hole --

MATTHEWS: That`s what we did today. You see the big city numbers, they`re awesome.

LAURA BASSETT, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Right, and you see Clinton spending a lot of time in Pennsylvania and Michigan. And I think it`s not only about turning out African-American voters. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that these are game-day states, where people don`t do early voting there. And 95 percent of people in 2012 in Pennsylvania voted on Election Day.

MATTHEWS: And just before you jump to the conclusion about minorities in Philadelphia, there are a lot of minorities in Philadelphia, about a 50/50 situation, but there are a lot of white liberals in Philadelphia, a lot of white labor people. It`s a city of Democrats. It`s just is.

(CROSSTALK))

BASSETT: She`s campaigning with Jay-z. I mean, it`s a pretty obvious ploy, you know?

MATTHEWS: I was with the ward leaders today, they get along really well and they`re all Democrats.

Anyway, how do you guys match this? I mean, I don`t know -- if Trump were to win, and it`s possible, he would have to win Florida, right?

MATT SCHLAPP, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: Yes.

MATTHEWS: He`s got to win North Carolina. And he`s got to win either Pennsylvania or one of the other Rust Belt states, Michigan and Wisconsin.

SCHLAPP: That`s right. It`s not sufficient, right?

So, the idea that you keep going to North Carolina and Florida -- this is a key thing in a presidential race, which is, you have been to these states over a dozen times. You`ve been to all the big markets. Sometimes you reach a point where you`re not getting that much utility out of yet one more visit to a media market. And I like the idea of punching out two of Nevada or hitting in Michigan.

He`s got to make something else happen, anyway. So to avoid those states would be a mistake. So I like what I see on our schedule.

MATTHEWS: Can he win Virginia?

SCHLAPP: You know, Virginia --

MATTHEWS: I`m just wondering.

SCHLAPP: I spend a lot of time in Virginia. Virginia is definitely closing. And you know, I think he`s got a shot there. But, you know, she`s leading in most of these polls, in many of these states.

MATTHEWS: OK, explain the conservative -- we hear a lot of liberal opinion. I want to hear a conservative opinion.

SCHLAPP: Right.

MATTHEWS: Why would the pro-life position, basically, dealing with abortion by criminal act or whatever you do with it, and Second Amendment rights, why would that win in a general election?

SCHLAPP: Why does it win in a general election?

MATTHEWS: They seem to think, the people on the Trump side, seem to think that`s their winning thing. Explain.

SCHLAPP: Yes, because I think both campaigns are trying to appeal to their base and grow their base if their coalitions and Trump`s trying to do the same.

MATTHEWS: Fifty percent of the American people come out for pro-life position and pro-gun position. Are there that many?

SCHLAPP: Yes. Actually, the pro-life position is actually getting stronger. It`s strange with millennials and actually with young women, it`s much stronger than it`s ever been. This issue is changing, and on Second Amendments, just a key issue in many states.

And the reason why Virginia, why it`s a little tougher for them, we all know why -- Virginia is kind of a government state now. A lot of people in Virginia earn their wagers by either be a consultant to the government or working for the government. Let`s face it, Trump is running against Washington.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: It`s easier to be pro-life in a situation where you have a pro- choice loss.

BELCHER: I have to rejoin here because --

SCHLAPP: Well, people are changing their mind on this.

BELCHER: You know why it`s not going to work, be hard for y`all to win Virginia. And I`m not being partisan about this.

SCHLAPP: Because you`re losing --

MATTHEWS: You just saying y`all. That don`t really convince you`re bipartisan, y`all.

(CROSSTALK)

BELCHER: Well, I`m not Republican. Why Republicans keep -- are having a hard time in Virginia, because you`re losing the middle moderate swath of voters in Virginia. If you look at Virginia right now, we won moderates nationally by about 55 percent and while losing independents. That`s how you win the country.

In Virginia, we won moderates by 56 percent. And when you look at Terry McAuliffe in Virginia and look at where she`s -- you know, how Democrats win in Virginia, it`s because we dominate among moderate -- those moderate --

MATTHEWS: Who wins the House race out there?

BELCHER: I don`t have an answer for that --

SCHLAPP: Comstock.

BELCHER: That`s the Republican answer. I`m asking a Democrat.

SCHLAPP: "The Washington Post" endorsed her.

MATTHEWS: We`ll talk about that.

Anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. And up next, these three will tell me something I don`t know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: Well, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are on the campaign trail tonight. Trump`s about to take the stage at a rally in Hershey, Pennsylvania, where they make the candy bars. While Clinton is in Cleveland at a rally featuring rapper Jay-Z. Secretary Clinton is set to speak at the top of the hour, 8:00 Eastern.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: By the way, the HARDBALL roundtable. Big time to make predictions. This is a big night.

So, Cornell?

BELCHER: Something you don`t know is one, my book`s a really good read actually.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Punch it.

BELCHER: But also --

SCHLAPP: I didn`t know that.

BELCHER: We`ll come back for an interview with you after the election.

But also, if you look at Florida right now, they have banked more African- American and Hispanic voters in Florida right now at this point than they had all of early vote in 2012. This idea of an enthusiasm gap, we`re not seeing it in Florida. And if this holds true, it makes Florida really hard for Donald Trump to win. Donald Trump will not win Florida.

BASSETT: So, the Ku Klux Klan for the first time in many years is very active in getting out the vote right now.

MATTHEWS: How many actual members are there of this group? Please?

BASSETT: I have no idea. My colleague Sam Stein reported today that they`ve flooded small towns in South Georgia with flyers in their yards, KKK flyers.

MATTHEWS: It takes 20 people.

Let me tell you something, I think the Ku Klux Klan and the communist party, they keep each other going. I don`t think anybody --

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Go ahead.

SCHLAPP: I think checking in with my sources in New Hampshire, I think Trump will carry New Hampshire. The most educated state in the country --

MATTHEWS: How about the center --

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLAPP: I think Ayotte can win as well.

MATTHEWS: I agree with that.

SCHLAPP: Over 50 percent of the returns will in early in the evening. They won`t call it later --

MATTHEWS: I like that prediction.

SCHLAPP: It will tell us something about the race.

BELCHER: A gentleman`s wager on that -- I`ll take a gentleman`s wager on that.

SCHLAPP: You told me something I don`t know.

MATTHEWS: Taking five minutes, make your bets.

Anyway, Cornell, I have a bet coming up. I think I`m going to win. I think Trump is going to win more than ten states, just betting. Anyway, I hope the guy`s listening to that one.

Anyway, Cornell Belcher, thank you, Laura Bassett and Matt Schlapp.

When we return, my election diary tonight as we head into this last -- I hate it`s over. Isn`t it? It`s going to be over Tuesday night. This dream of an election, this joy for America, it`s been awful.

You`re watching HARDBALL, the place for politics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: Election Diary Friday, November 4th, 2016.

Well, today, I got the experience of sitting inside a meeting of the Democratic sitting committee of Philadelphia. Sitting there among the Democratic ward leaders of the city, I could feel the reality of big city politics in the midst of the last big city political machine -- let`s call it that -- in the country.

Philadelphia has covered each city block with wards, each of those ward is broken into voting divisions, every voting division has two members of the Philadelphia Democratic committee, they`re called committee people and they`re the people that tend to the neighborhoods concerns that people get out the vote on election day know who voted and who didn`t. They keep score the same way the ward leaders keep score, the same way the chairman knows which ward is doing the best job can be relied on to do the best job.

How do you score a ward leader? Simple, Chairman Bob Brady (ph) explains, how many votes do they get out? This is the firewall, you`re look at it. This is the reality of big city of Philadelphia, this is what to watch on election night. If the political machine, let`s call it that, in Philadelphia, the Democratic organization under Bob Brady can produce a 450,000-vote plurality, it can deliver Pennsylvania to Hillary Clinton. The rest of the state out there they call the tee can go whole hog for Donald Trump.

What matters? What will again break the Republican heart will be the year round work of the last great political machine in the country, the Democratic city committee of Philadelphia.

And that`s HARDBALL -- it`s the real thing -- for now. Thanks for watching us.

"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END