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Transcript: All In with Chris Hayes, 6/24/22

Guests: Melissa Murray, Rebecca Traister, Gretchen Whitmer, London Lamar, Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Northup


At 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time, federal protection of abortion rights ended in this country. The end of Roe v. Wade pushes for a huge battle for abortion rights to states. With Roe overturned, Michigan Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer is now one of the last lines of defense for reproductive choice in her state and she is up for re-election this fall. In Tennessee, just hours after the Supreme Court decision on abortion, the Republican attorney general of that state Herbert Slatery III filed an emergency motion to immediately ban abortions after six weeks before most people even know they`re pregnant. The Supreme Court has taken away the 50- year constitutional right to an abortion. There are massive protests all across the country after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade.





CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voiceover): Tonight on ALL IN.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): This is deadly serious.

HAYES: The Supreme Court ends the right to an abortion.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Constitutional right has been taken from the people of America.

HAYES: Tonight, the unprecedented decision from the court, the states that are already banning abortion access, and the battle to get it back.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO CORTEZ (D-NY): We`re going to have to fight a long road to get it back but we`re not going to give up.

HAYES: Tonight, Rebecca Traister, Melissa Murray, Nancy Northup, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, State Senator London Lamar, and Senator Elizabeth Warren all join me live when ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES (on camera): Good evening from Los Angeles. I`m Chris Hayes. It is a brutal day for American democracy, for American women, specifically for all Americans who can become pregnant, for all Americans really. A right enshrined in the Constitution as intimate as any right one could imagine has been discarded and destroyed by five unelected justices, three of whom were appointed, of course, by the last president who got about three million fewer votes than his opponent.

In American democracy, it is truly rare to see rights taken away in this fashion. The proverbial moral arc of the universe that bends for justice, the strive for more perfect union the progress of time, to watch these things born backwards towards a reactionary past as starkly as this in one moment to the next, it makes you feel physically nauseous.

Speaking only for myself as a person who can`t become pregnant, as a man, it`s not even a tiny sliver of subjective insight into what it would feel like today if I could. But if you feel a sense of deep mourning and keening rage today as the Court undoes 50 years of precedent by overturning Roe, you are not wrong to feel that way.

This kind of thing, the rolling back of fundamental rights is not supposed to happen but it is happening right now, and it has happened in the past. I think today have appeared in which it happened a lot during Reconstruction, when reactionary forces weaponized racialized terrorism to undo the gains made after the Civil War to create a multiracial democracy.

I think about that period a lot ever since Trump`s election particularly because it`s the most salient example of many other ones where the forces of reaction in this country have tried to claw back hard-won rights. And oftentimes the strongest ally of those very same forces of reaction, the strongest ally they had was none other than the Supreme Court of the United States.

Like with, for example, the Plessy v. Ferguson ruling, the disastrous 1896 ruling establishing the racist separate but equal doctrine. In fact, taken as a whole, over the long arc of American history, there have probably been more instances in the history of the country where the Supreme Court has sided with those forces of reaction and those looking to strip away fundamental rights.

There`s been times when the court is an institution fought towards the enlargement of rights and democratic legitimacy. It was none other than our greatest president, President Abraham Lincoln, who said in his inaugural address, freshly elected to preside over a nation that was coming apart, and in response to the Supreme Court`s malignant Dred Scott decision which determined that Black people were not eligible for American citizenship, Lincoln said, "The candid citizen must confess that if the policy of the government upon the vital questions affecting the whole people is to be irrevocably fixed by the decisions of the Supreme Court, the instant they are made in ordinary litigation between parties and personal actions, the people will have ceased to be their own rulers."

That`s Lincoln. In other words, if the court is going to settle all the matters as grave and fundamental as this, then we`ve given up being a free people who can determine our own lives, again, particularly when the question at issue there was citizenship. Again, this was specifically in response to the court citing time and time again with the institution of slavery, acting as a backstop to the worst reactionary forces in the country`s history.

And while, to be clear, slavery and reconstruction have no actual analogue in American politics, they exist in their own plane, it is now clear on this day if it wasn`t clear before, that the Trump Supreme Court is squarely planting its flag in the historical tradition of marauding reaction that has so often characterize that body.


Here it is, again, assisting the forces of backlash politics, working to undo what progress society and social movements and democratic politics and other courts have made towards equal protection under the law and the dream of a multicultural, multiracial democracy for all. And much of that dream has occurred and made real tangibly only lasts five to six decades. It`s very preciously, delicately young.

Today, of course, the court annihilated half a century of settled precedent, simply because it had the votes to do so. The decision by far right Justice Samuel Alito cited history in a manifestly cherry-picked way that is even inconsistent with the punitive historical methodology on display yesterday in their gun case when the same right-wing court loosened restrictions on who could carry concealed firearm public.

But of course, none of this is about history or methodology or constitutional originalism. This is about the raw exertion of power by five right-wing judges who have absolute near veto-proof authority over the rest of the country. Today, millions of Americans have their right to bodily autonomy stripped because of this radical activist court.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to South Dakota is trigger law, as of today, all abortions are now illegal in the state unless there`s a reasonable medical judgment than an abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the mother. There is no exception for rape or incest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Mike Parson, weighing in on the Supreme Court`s ruling after signing a proclamation ending abortions in Missouri, one of 13 states with a trigger law. Meaning, the ban went into effect almost immediately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This decision sets off trigger laws in more than a dozen states which would automatically ban abortion in most cases. One of those states right here in Louisiana.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here in Kentucky, the Attorney General put things very plainly. As of this morning, abortion procedures across the Commonwealth are banned unless the life of the mother is at risk.


HAYES: Residents of South Dakota, Missouri, Louisiana, Kentucky and Arkansas went to bed last night with the fundamental right to control their own bodies and access an abortion and they lost that right this morning. Tonight, they go to bed in a different world because five politicians -- let`s call them what they are -- in robes decided it was so because they had the votes to do so. And the same will be true for the millions more who live in other so-called trigger states that will automatically ban abortion in the coming days and weeks. Just say nothing states or Republican legislatures are looking to pass new laws to restrict access.

And make no mistake, this court, particularly the logic of the decision in Dobbs is coming from more than just reproductive rights, whatever they say to the contrary, civil rights for gay couples, protections for trans folks, contraceptive rights, voting rights, they`re all under threat. And I think it is time -- well, actually, past time, we see the Trump court for what it is, a genuine acute threat to our fundamental rights including the constitution of American democracy itself.

That said, the answer is not hopelessness and despair and nihilism because it is also the case that throughout that same history, many of the court`s most infamous decisions, the one that live in infamy and heap scorn forevermore upon the people that wrote them ultimately have been undone by popular movements of opposition. It exists in a democratic society still. It is an institution outside of direct democratic control but within a democratic society still. And the court losing its popular legitimacy has posed a true threat to its power in the past.

Look at the protests on the streets happening in American cities right now across the country and the polling that shows public opinion against this decision. The Court is about to face one of the largest threats to perceived legitimacy ever in its history. Good.

Rebecca Traister is in at-large writer at the New York Magazine. Her latest piece out today is titled The Necessity Of Hope. Melissa Murray is a professor at New York University and clerked for then Appeals Court Judge Sonya Sotomayor, also co-hosts of the Strict Scrutiny Podcast with my wife Kate Shaw and Leah Litman. And they both join me now.

Melissa, let me start with you on the decision. I used five justices in that intro because there were five there to do the most sort of aggressive revocation of the right. John Roberts, the chief, joined the ruling which upholds the Mississippi law but not the rest of it. We saw a leak before. It`s substantially the same and yet still hard to process. What do you -- what is your reaction to it?


MELISSA MURRAY, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: We definitely got more color around the nature of the court`s deliberations on this issue because we not only got the majority opinion, we also got the separate concurrences as well as a dissent. Again, I think we`re getting a very clear picture that Chief Justice John Roberts has kind of lost control of the conservative wing of the court. He is sort of being in the distance and being in the wind. No one`s really listening to him. He`s suggesting that maybe there was a third way, something more minimalist and he can`t get anyone else to join him for that.

The really interesting episode that I think we did not have any inkling of although certainly some people including myself thought that this was on the horizon, Justice Thomas`s concurrence is a shot across the bow that makes clear that abortion is not the end game here, it is really only the beginning. He says in that concurrence that although the court has tried to sequester the question of abortion from other rights like same-sex marriage and contraception, the court should in time go further to take up this other rights which like the right to abortion, he says, is unmoored constitutional tax and not deeply rooted in this country`s tradition, and for that reason, is egregiously erroneous and should be overruled. So, more to come. This is not the end.

HAYES: Yes, let me just read that proportion. If for that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court`s substantive due process precedents. Of course, that`s the line of cases that row is part of including Griswold which is, of course the birth control, Lawrence, which is throwing out a lock -- criminalizing gay sex in Texas, and Obergefell, of course, which makes it a constitutional right to marry.

Rebecca, I want to read from your excellent piece today which I found -- I needed at the right time. You write, "Despair is poison. It deadens people when the most important thing they could do is proceed with more drive and force and openness and they have before which is why the work ahead is insisting on hope, behaving as if there is reason for hope, even if you feel based on the ample available evidence that there is not." How are you finding that right now?

REBECCA TRAISTER, WRITER-AT-LARGE, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Well, I think part of what I was trying to write about today is I think there`s a twinned responsibility today. And the first half of it is to really sit with exactly how cruel and punitive and unjust things are to sit with the realization that they are going to get worse. And Clarence Thomas is concurrence mean that explicitly clear. We have talked on the show before about how the message has often been sent to those of us who have been worried about exactly this outcome and those of us who have been upset about the erosion of abortion rights and access even as Roe has stood, that we were needlessly distressed about this, that Roe is never really going to be overturned.

I have gotten similar messages since the leaked draft of this decision, as I and Melissa and others have worried about the future of same-sex marriage, of contraceptive access, being told no, no, those are never going to -- those are never going to go away. I`ve heard those messages today despite Clarence Thomas`s clarity on this.

So, the first task is to be really clear that that message that things are OK is an anesthetizing fantasy that we have been sold to create paralysis in us. This is bad, it`s horrible, and it will get worse. The second conjoined responsibility is to not let that further paralyze us, to in fact, take the awfulness, the badness, the injustice and remember that it is incumbent on us to not give in to despair or hopelessness, but instead to continue the work.

As you said in your intro, we have an ample history in this country of both progress and regress. The fantasy that we were only going to move in one direction and that things were going to be OK was an absolute denial of the reality of the injustices and power imbalances that this country was built around. And it is our job, even living through the regress, especially living through the regress, to continue the fight to make things more just in the future, whether or not we live to see victories.

It is incumbent on us, therefore, to use hope not as some feel-good measure, but as to regard it as a tactical necessity and a moral and civic responsibility to feel the hope and keep moving and keep fighting and keep organizing and to look for the people who have been doing it throughout while all the messages were everything is fine, nothing is going to be overturned, you`re all being -- you`re all overreacting. You`re all being hysterical.

No, there has been people doing the work of getting people who need abortion care, reproductive health care on the ground through the erosions of Roe for many decades. And we should be looking to them now as a model looking to support their work, fund their work, and expand it in this next chapter.

HAYES: Melissa, in terms of what the court has done here, not what they might do in the future, but it`s just what they have done today, and to Rebecca`s point, the dissent from the three liberals says this is as bad as it looks and they`re coming for it all. They describe those rights as a Jenga tower, but just -- I`m struck today that the only thing that separates a court from a legislature is stare decisis, some reliance on precedent, and some consideration of reliance interests, right?

I mean, if Republicans are elected, they say we`re going to repeal the ACA and then they have the votes to repeal the ACA. Like, that`s the way a legislator works. That`s not the way a court is supposed to work. This court is working like that which is why you have it happening today. And I just wonder, like how tenable this is as a public institution to operate in that fashion.


MURRAY: Well, I think the two things are conjoined, Chris. You don`t get an institution that is flagrantly resting power from the people in the way that this court has, unless you have those who are in power willing to use this court to advance a program of minoritarian rule. And you mentioned the effort to repeal the ACA, that didn`t happen through majoritarian politics. The Republicans were unable to do that through majoritarian politics.

And so, the first thing they did was to file a lawsuit in a Texas District Court to use the courts. So, that`s what we`re up against. Like, the court has become a political entity, a political football because it has this authority to affect domestic policy when majoritarian politics could not.

HAYES: Rebecca Traister and Melissa Murray, I really appreciate you both joining us on this difficult and enraging day. Thank you both. I appreciate it.

Tonight, lawmakers from two states where the overturning of roe is about to have varying degrees of impact. So, I`m going to Michigan. I`ll talk to the governor whose election this November could very well determine if people in her state can access abortion.

Plus a state senator in Tennessee or the Attorney General is trying to ban abortion as soon as possible. Later, we`ll have Senator Elizabeth Warren on what she calls as National Emergency. Our coverage of the end of row continues next.




LETITIA JAMES, ATTORNEY GENERAL, NEW YORK: We organized providers as well as medical professionals in the state of New York. And we are prepared to represent individual. We`re prepared to train legal professionals as well as medical professionals in anticipation of individuals who might be prosecuted in their home state. We are looking at extradition, we`re looking at subpoenas, we`re looking at all of that. We are ready. We will not, again, bow down to the radical right. We will stand up and protect a woman`s right to choose, protect the 14th amendment, and not allow women to be treated like second-class citizens.


HAYES: That was New York`s Attorney General Letitia James moments ago down at that protest that`s happening in New York like protests across the country, laying out her plans to support people from states where abortion rights are under threat because just over 20 hours ago, the Supreme Court ended federal protection for abortion rights in the United States. And since then, at least six states have already triggered laws that ban and restrict abortions. At least 15 other states have similar laws that could ban abortion access on the books.

In Michigan, a state -- a state law from 1931 bans abortions in all cases except for the mother`s life is at risk. There is no exception for rape or incest. Earlier this year, a state court temporarily blocked the law. But with Roe overturned, Michigan Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer is now one of the last lines of defense for reproductive choice in her state and she is up for re-election this fall.

Governor Whitmer, it`s good to have you on tonight. Thanks for joining us.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Thank you. I`m glad to be with you.

HAYES: So, first, let`s talk about the status of legal abortion and reproductive care in your state. It is legal in Michigan right now. That 1931 law has been successfully enjoined, am I right?

WHITMER: That`s right. It is -- it is on appeal. So, it is a precarious moment. We could revert 91 years if we lose that injunction. I`ve also filed a lawsuit in our state Supreme Court to ask our court to declare that in the Michigan Constitution, women have a due process and equal protection, right to privacy and bodily autonomy. I`m hoping they will take action quickly with the advent of today`s decision being announced.

HAYES: So you have this sort of Sword of Damocles hanging over you. That`s being litigated right now. You have a state where -- I just want to say the polling. I mean, Michigan obviously is a very divided state, sort of quintessential swing state. This is the polling in January, at least, on Roe v Wade. The support leaving in place 67 percent, support overturning 19 percent, don`t know 13 percent. What does that mean? How does it matter? How does it shape what this discussion debate and the politics and law is going to be in your state now and up until the election?

WHITMER: Well, the vast majority of people support women being able to make their own health care decisions. And the thought that my daughters now will have fewer rights than I`ve had my whole life is just horrifying. It will have ramifications well beyond the simple nature of health care for women. And, you know, I was raised by a pro-choice Republican, Chris. I served with pro-choice Republicans when I was in the legislature, but in today`s Michigan Republican Party, there`s not a single leader who will stand up and fight for women`s reproductive freedom.

Every candidate running for governor on the other side of the aisle wants this 1931 law to be the Law of Michigan making it felony, no exceptions for rape or incest. And our legislature is trying to take an additional step. They introduced legislation yesterday to punish nurses and put them away for 10 years if they are caught giving reproductive care. So, this is a really scary moment. And that`s why I`m fighting like hell to protect reproductive rights for Michigan women.

HAYES: Yes, let me -- let me quote from that law that was introduced by Michigan Republican state representatives on Wednesday, an individual who purposely performed or attempts to perform an abortion except to save the life of pregnant woman or medical emergency is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years, a fine not more than $100,000.

This -- I mean, correct me if I`m wrong, but my sense is in a state like yours, should Republicans take both state houses and the governor`s mansion, it would be the first thing they do, right? Am I wrong? I mean, it seems like that will be number one -- the number one priority if they were to take control of your state.

WHITMER: No, you`re absolutely right. We`ve got a very gerrymandered legislature. They don`t reflect the will of the people. 70 percent support this. And, you know, the only thing that is keeping us from devolving into, you know, a state where women don`t have any reproductive rights and where we eviscerate voting rights, the only thing that`s keeping either of those things happening here in Michigan is my veto. And I`ll keep vetoing ugly stuff. But this election is going to be really crucial for my state and for health care of women and for voter rights as well.

HAYES: Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, many thanks for joining us on a very, very busy day. I appreciate it.

WHITMER: Thank you, Chris.

HAYES: All right. We now turn to another state in a different situation. That the state of Tennessee that has a trigger law that doesn`t go into effect for 30 days, but today the Attorney General filed an emergency motion to try and get a ban in place immediately. What that means after this.



CHRIS HAYES, NBC NEWS HOST: This morning at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time, federal protection of abortion rights ended in this country. And within minutes of the Supreme Court ruling, Missouri, one of the 13 states with a trigger law, banned all abortions in the state.

Cal Perry is live in St. Louis, Missouri where crowds are gathering in protest. Cal?

CAL PERRY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Chris, I`m outside of the Planned Parenthood in St. Louis, which was the only place where women in this state could get an abortion. And as you said, it only took about 15 minutes the Attorney General signing a proclamation there was almost a race amongst Republican politicians here to make that proclamation to make abortion illegal.

Now, representatives here want the people of Missouri -- women of Missouri to know you can still go to Illinois. Governor of Illinois has made it a priority to protect that right, he says, and we`re going to be keeping our eyes Chris, on a vote that will happen in August in Kansas because in Kansas, of the thousands of abortions that are held there each year, about half are women from this state. It gives you an idea of the complexity of this issue, Chris.

HAYES: All right, Cal Perry live in St. Louis for us tonight outside that Planned Parenthood clinic in a state where they can no longer function legally. Thank you, Cal.

In Tennessee, just hours after the Supreme Court decision, the Republican attorney general of that state Herbert Slatery III filed an emergency motion to immediately ban abortions after six weeks before most people even know they`re pregnant. That is in addition to the trigger law that goes into effect in Tennessee in 30 days, it would make it a felony to provide abortion treatments with no apparent exceptions for rape or incest.

State Senator London Lamar is a Democrat from Tennessee who has been on the front lines on the fight for abortion rights in her state. And she joins me now.

Representative, thank you for making time tonight. First, the status right now as the clock ticks for 30 days, the attorney general is just trying to make that happen faster. Is that -- is that -- is that where things are?

STATE SEN. LONDON LAMAR (D-TN): Absolutely. Even though we have the trigger law in place, which gives 30 days. What he`s trying to do is within those 30 days, women who are beyond the six week timeline by Monday, he wants to outlaw their ability to have abortion within a 30-day timeline.

You know, this whole decision is just appalling. As a woman who has almost lost her life during child -- during childbirth, I`ve lost a child during childbirth, I`m appalled that I no longer have the choice to decide if I want to subject myself to the psychological and physical trauma of childbirth.

So, alongside all the women across the state of Tennessee. Tennessee is ninth in the nation for infant and maternal mortality in this country, we don`t do a good job of taking care of the children we already have here.

So, the fact that Tennessee wants to paint itself as the state that has the most restrictive abortion laws in this country is to me is a hypocrisy.

We`re not doing a good job of taking care of children we have, and more women in this state will be dying, and more babies will be dying because we have not done what we already can do now to save the children that we already have.

And this trigger law and the six-week ban is going to further exasperate that issue.

HAYES: But let me ask you this, obviously, we`re talking about polling, this decision is very unpopular across the country. And I did polling in Michigan, I suspect it`s different in your state in Tennessee, a more conservative state.

What do you say to people who say, look, this is now allowing state democracy to work, the voters of Tennessee don`t -- they don`t favor abortion rights, the majority don`t? And now they`re going to -- their will be done at the state level. And that`s just the way democracy works.


LAMAR: I disagree. I think that many of the folks who support this issue haven`t been engaged and have felt hopeless in a political process. But what I hope this decision does is excite the base that we must focus more on this August and November election, where we are determined the next state elected officials in Tennessee.

If you truly believe that all Tennesseans and women in this country deserve the right to abortion access and decide how they want to start their family and when they get to make the decision, then we must get out to vote and put focus back into our state legislators who now have the power to give women this right.

Again, this isn`t -- I don`t think this is the thoughts of opinions of all Tennesseans. But it`s the thoughts and opinions of those who have decided to engage in the political process.

But what I hope women across the state do is stand up, rise up, go to the polls and take those who are trying to take our rights away out of office this year.

HAYES: Senator, let me ask you this, at most, in many state houses, particularly ones that are dominated by Republicans like the Tennessee State House. You know, every legislative session there`d be new -- there are new laws piled atop on whatever the kind of pet causes, right? So, we`re seeing outlawing, you know, trans-kids in sports, right?

It strikes me that this won`t be the end of abortion legislation coming up in your state, but every session there will now be attempts to criminalize the importation of abortion drugs or other. I mean, do you suspect that there will be more on this to come in your state legislator as someone that serves in that body?

LAMAR: Absolutely. What I`ve been telling individuals is that this is the start of everybody who`s rights on the line, gay rights, racial rights, access to health care, the ability to stop guns from entering the hands of people who don`t belong them. Everybody`s rights are on the line with this decision. It`s just that women are the start of this.

What we have to do is challenge this idea of being pro-life. If we are wanting to be a pro-life state that Tennessee says it is, then we need to make sure we`re expanding healthcare access, that we need to make sure we are allowing families to decide how they want to live, and what healthcare decisions they want to have.

If we want to be a pro-life state, let`s stop putting guns in the hands of individuals who are shooting people, innocent children. We have to do a better job at protecting the families we have here in Tennessee, and stop the bad legislation that is coming down the line that will further -- stop other humans in this state for being able to make decisions about how they want to live their lives.

No longer will we have -- be able to rely on the Supreme Court and the federal government for giving basic human rights to all people. It is now in the hands of individuals in this state who no longer who wants to make this state back to what it was in the early 1900s.

We`re in 2022, we need to be working to make sure families have everything that they need, our education systems are fully funded and families have health care access.

Until we get there, we need to leave women`s rights alone and create a state where everyone can thrive.

But unfortunately, I`m expecting this upcoming session where there are going to be tons of legislation are going to hurt families. But I`m encouraging everyone watching right now to please engage more in January and go to the polls in August and November, because we have a chance to stop this and reverse this if we act now.

HAYES: Tennessee State Senator, not Representative, my apologies, State Senator London Lamar, thank you very much.

If there is one person in the Senate you want to hear from tonight, it is Elizabeth Warren. She joins me next. So, don`t go anywhere.




REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This is a cementing of my minority rule in a lot of ways. And we`re going to have to fight a long road to get it back. But we`re not going to give up.


HAYES: Now, the Supreme Court has taken away the 50-year constitutional right to an abortion. Democrats in Congress need to see what exactly they can do, what laws they can pass to restore and protect the right of access to reproductive care across the country.

One senator pushing for that, Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts join me now.

First senator, I know you`ve been very outspoken today in that protests, I want to just get what you`re thinking and feeling right now, you know, 10 hours after this decision was handed down?

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): So, look, I am furious. I am furious, because an extremist minority, six justices of the United States Supreme Court think that they have the power and therefore the right to impose their personal moral and religious views on the rest of an unwilling America. That is wrong. And that is why I am in this fight. And that is why millions of people across this country are going to be in this fight.

The Supreme Court does not get the final word here. We will put a stop to this.

HAYES: Well, what does that mean? Why have they not? I mean, I think a lot of people feel like they have at least for the short term.

WARREN: Sure they have for the short term. And that means we have to respond in the short term. That means right now, and you`ve been talking to people who are doing it all across this country, we need to be helping women who are pregnant right now, women who get pregnant next week or next month, and need help because they live in one of the states that is banning abortion.


WARREN: And we should be doing volunteering time, volunteering money. We also are calling on the President of the United States to use all of the administrative tools that are available right now.

Medication abortions are more than half of all abortions in the country, not a clinical procedure. But there are a lot of restrictions on access to that medication that are not medically necessary.

I want -- we`d like to see the president loosen those up. There are other places the president could act to dampen the ability of these companies to track women who travel out of state to an abortion clinic, to provide funds for people who are traveling and to look into the use of federal lands to be able to create opportunities for people who need access to abortion to get it.

So, that`s the thing we need to do in the interim term. The president could get that up and running in a matter of weeks.

The third thing we need to do, though, is to be focused on the election coming in November. And we need to be laser-focused. Remember how we got here. We got here, not because the Republicans said, you know, let`s debate, abortion, and let`s go with majority rule. We got here because a concentrated small group, intensely focused on this issue, and they voted on it and voted on it and voted on it.

Now, this time, for the first time in November 2022, Roe vs. Wade is going to be on the ballot for everyone, Democrats, Republicans, independents, and this is our chance to be heard at the ballot box.

Right now, we need to be asking every elected official up and down the ballot. Where do you stand on Roe vs. Wade? And if you`re not willing to speak out, then you`re not somebody I would want to vote for.

We also need to ask everyone who`s running for the United States Senate. Are you willing to get rid of the filibuster so that when we get another senator who is willing to make Roe vs. Wade the law of the land, we can actually get it done.

So, we`ve got a lot of plans here, a lot of work to do. Nobody is giving up. We take this anger, we take it and channel the energy of it into protecting the people across this country who need us.

You know, Chris --

HAYES: To that point -- yes, go ahead.

WARREN: You know who`s going to be hurt the hardest in this? I lived in a world where abortion was illegal. Now, people still got abortions. Well, to do women who could travel to another state, who could go to another country, they still had access. Other women still try. They ended up scarred for life. They ended up some taking their own lives, rather than facing a pregnancy that they could not bear.

Today, the consequences of this decision will fall hardest on poor women, it will fall hardest on women of color who already face higher maternal mortality rates. It will fall hardest on mamas who already are working three jobs to support the children they have. It will fall hardest on 14- year-olds who are raped by their uncles or their coaches. That`s who`s going to pay the real price today. And that`s why we have to decide as Americans.

Are we just going to say, well, now I despair. Now it`s over or we`re going to say Supreme Court doesn`t get the last word? In a democracy, we got the last word. It`s time to get in this fight and it`s time to make real change on behalf of everyone in this country.

HAYES: Senator Elizabeth Warren of The State of Massachusetts on a brutal and long and difficult day. Thank you so much for making some time for us tonight. I appreciate it.

Ahead, the fight for abortion access in post-rural America as the senator just alluded to. I`ll talk to the president of the Center for Reproductive Rights about what happens next, right after this.



HAYES: There are massive protests at this hour all across the country after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade this morning.

64 percent of Americans opposed overturning Roe in a Marist Poll just last month. That`s a two-thirds majority, you don`t see for just about anything in this country.

And so, hundreds of people are out and protesting in New York City night gathering in on the streets of Denver, Colorado. On the west coast in Seattle, Washington outside the Supreme Court in Washington, D.C.

Nancy Northup, president and CEO of the Center for Reproductive Rights has made securing abortion rights her life`s work, and she joins me now.

Nancy, we`ve talked many times before, you`ve litigated on Roe and attacks on Roe for much of your career up to and including the Supreme Court. What`s your reaction to the ruling today?

NANCY NORTHUP, PRESIDENT AND CEO, CENTER FOR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS: Well, it`s been a devastating day. I mean, the Supreme Court did what it`s never done in history, which is to take away an individual personal liberty and did so in a way that you know, makes women and their autonomies over their bodies and their ability to decide on their futures. Second class and unequal citizens as the dissents put it.


NORTHUP: So, it`s been a very devastating day. It`s been a hard day as our attorneys at the Center of Reproductive Rights have been on the phone with clients across the nation. We represent clinics, including the Jackson Women`s Health Organization, in this case in the Supreme Court, and they`re having to make decisions about what to do next.

So, it`s a very wrenching time. And first and foremost and in front is what Senator Warren just talked about, which is the impact it`s going to have on people.

I mean, today`s decision is going to change people`s lives. And there are going to be women who are simply not going to be able to get access to the abortion care that they would like to and are going to be forced to carry pregnancies to terms.

And other people are going to be caught up in this people who are having miscarriages. It is just an astonishing decision in which we have been thrown back more than 50 years.

HAYES: Your organization serves as legal counsel for many abortion providers, particularly providers in states like Mississippi or Missouri, places where, you know, the governing party, the Republican Party is extremely hostile, is trying to make life incredibly difficult. Many of those states now have trigger laws in effect.

How should people be thinking about trying to work towards ensuring access to care for those populations, women and other pregnant folks in those states who are now living under this new regime within the day of how -- what can be done starting today to get them access to care?

NORTHUP: Yes, so as you pointed out, 13 states have trigger bans, some purport to go into effect right away, like in the state of Louisiana, and some might take you know, a week or two weeks or three weeks, depending on the laws.

But there are much that people can do. Number one, what you`re showing on your screen, people taking to the streets is a very important thing for everybody to do and to continue to do because the vast majority of people who want access to safe and legal abortion need to be made visible.

Second, they can support abortion funds, because abortion funds are helping to raise money they have for years, I`ve been doing this work for years to help people be able to pay for their abortion care and now, having to travel maybe hundreds or thousands of miles from their home, communities to get access to care.

They can make sure that their state legislatures in states like New York is going to become a state that is going to be very protective, just passed a slew of laws protecting the ability for people to come to the state of New York and for providers to provide here.

And also make sure that their members of Congress and the Biden administration know how important this is to them. So that the administration, as the president said today will be taking steps to ensure to the extent of executive powers access to abortion care.

HAYES: Senator Warren just pointed out that half of all abortions in the United States are medical abortions, not surgical. Meaning they`re administered with drugs, those drugs have been approved by the FDA today. The Attorney General reiterating the fact that -- essentially, the supremacy clause means those drugs can be taken anywhere in the U.S. The FDA has approved them, they can`t be denied, it strikes me that that is going to be one of the next big fights.

Because obviously, it`s easier to move for women for whom this would work, it`s easier to move a packet of pills across state lines than to move a person to get abortion care.

It strikes me that the Republicans in those states are going to try to crack down on that and that is going to immediately be a front and center of very high-stakes fight.

NORTHUP: Absolutely. Medication abortion is the choice by about half of the people getting abortions in the United States today and it is safe and effective for up to 10 weeks, according to the FDA of pregnancy. And the FDA has said it`s safe to access by telemedicine.

So, this is going to be an important way that people can get access to abortion care in those first 10 weeks. And you`re right, states are going to try. They`ve also -- already some states passed laws banning telemedicine for medication abortion, which is, again, not what our health and safety regulations by the FDA say is a way that you should be able to access that care.

So, this will be a battle, but it`s going to be very, very important and people should understand, it`s a very safe method for being able to get abortions.

HAYES: All right, Nancy Northup. Thank you so much for making time for us tonight. I really do appreciate it.

NORTHUP: Thank you.

HAYES: That is all in on this Friday night. And on a very, very, very, very dark day in many ways, I am at least glad to say that my colleague, Rachel Maddow begins her show right now. Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris.