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Pelosi scolds progressives. TRANSCRIPT: 7/10/19, All In w/ Chris Hayes

Guests: Tina Smith, Jesse Eisenger, Hope Frye, Donna Edwards, Matt Fuller

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST:  -- my daughter Caroline was an inveterate midfielder in soccer, it`s even grander to be in a country in love with these world champions that thrilled us game after game.  I watched a lot of them, especially when we beat the Brits.

And that`s HARDBALL for now.  Thanks for being with us.  "ALL IN" with Chris Hayes starts right now.



ALEX ACOSTA, SECRETARY OF LABOR, UNITED STATES:  My relationship with the President is outstanding.

HAYES:  The Labor Secretary fighting to keep his job.

ACOSTA:  That`s my message the victims.  The messages you need to come forward.

HAYES:  Alex Acosta defends the sweetheart deal he made with sex predator Jeffrey Epstein as a new victim comes forward.

JENNIFER ARAOZ, ACCUSER OF JEFF EPSTEIN:  If I wasn`t afraid to come forward sooner, then maybe he would have done it to other girls.

HAYES:  Tonight, new details of Epstein`s alleged crimes and new scrutiny of the President`s relationship with him.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  I was not a fan of his, that I can tell you.  I was not a fan of his.

HAYES:  Then Congress holds hearings into the horrific treatment of kids inside the migrant camps.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  It`s child abuse pure and simple.

HAYES:  Plus, rumors of divisions in the Democratic caucus as the House Speaker calls for unity.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY):  It`s all puppies and rainbows.

HAYES:  And fresh off his praise of American revolutionaries --

TRUMP:  Our army man the air, it ran the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to.

HAYES:  The President heads off teleprompter again.

TRUMP:  The kidney has a very special place in the heart.

HAYES:  When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES:  Good evening from New York I`m Chris Hayes.  Tonight as Donald Trump`s Labor Secretary defends the sweetheart deal he cut with known sex predator Jeffrey Epstein, we are learning devastating new details about how exactly Epstein operated and how close he once was to the President of the United States.

We already knew that the two men knew each other well.  Epstein had multiple private numbers for Trump at his address book and in 2002 infamously the current President of the United States described the sex predator Epstein as a "terrific guy," adding, "He`s a lot of fun to be with.  It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do and many of them are on the younger side."

Late last night a New York Times reported that back in 1992, 28 young women, young women were flown into what was supposed to be an exclusive party at Mar-a-Lago but the only guests were Trump and Epstein.  That`s it, just those two guys hanging out.

The party`s organizer told the Times that he had warned Trump about Epstein`s taste for underage women but Trump dismissed his concerns.  The organizer saying he pretty much had to ban Jeff from my events but Trump didn`t care about that.

We also now know more about how Epstein operated.  Among the many properties he owned was an island off the U.S. territory of Saint Thomas where the A.P. reports that security guards would intimidate scuba divers who got too close.  Everybody called it Pedophile Island according to one local.  It`s our dark corner.

Epstein pled not guilty Monday in New York on charges that include sex trafficking of underage girls.  Prosecutors allege he abused dozens of girls some as young as 14 and say he kept CDs in a locked safe with labels including "girl pics nude." 

This morning a new Epstein accuser Jennifer Araoz told NBC`s "TODAY" that she was recruited by a female associate of Epstein when she was just 14 years old and a high school freshman here in New York City.


SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR:  Did Jeffrey Epstein raped you?

ARAOZ:  Yes, I know he raped me, forcefully raped me, know exactly what he was doing, and I don`t think cared.  What hurts even more so is that if I wasn`t afraid to come forward sooner then maybe he would have done it to other girls.


HAYES:  Araoz who was not part of any criminal case against Epstein did not report the alleged rape and abuse to authorities at the time.  Epstein`s lawyers did not reply to multiple requests for comment on her allegations.

Last year, the Miami Herald reported that it had identified about 80 women who say they were molested or otherwise sexually abused by Epstein from 2001 to 2006.  And more than a decade ago, Florida prosecutors prepared a 53-page indictment accusing Epstein of being -- of preying on young girls.

But according to the former Palm Beach State Attorney, the indictment was abandoned after secret negotiations between Epstein`s lawyers and the current U.S. Secretary of Labor, the man who by the way over -- charged with overseeing regulation of sex trafficking, and prosecution thereof, Alex Acosta who is then the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Florida.

Acosta agreed to a deal giving Epstein immunity from federal prosecution which could have meant a life sentence.  Instead, Epstein registered as a sex offender and served just 13 months in county jail with work release privileges.  He then returned to his lavish lifestyle.

Today Democrats in the House Oversight and Reform Committee sent a letter to Acosta inviting him to testify to hearing July 23rd about his role in that non-prosecution agreement.  And Acosta himself gave a press conference in which he blamed state prosecutors for how the Epstein case was handled saying that they were prepared to let Epstein walk free with no jail time.

That earned a blistering response from the former Palm Beach State attorney who said, "I can emphatically state that Mr. Acosta`s recollection of this matter is completely wrong.  Federal prosecutors do not take a back seat to state prosecutors.  That`s not how the system works in the real world."

In that press conference, Acosta was asked repeatedly whether he would apologize to Epstein`s victims and he would not.  He insisted that his office acted appropriately at the time and pointed to a 2008 article that cast his actions in a positive light.


ACOSTA:  Times have changed and coverage of this case has certainly changed since that article.  We now have 12 years of knowledge and hindsight and we live in a very different world.  Today`s world treats victims very, very differently.  Today`s world does not allow some of the victim shaming that could have taken place at trial 12 years ago.


HAYES:  Joining me now Democratic Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota who has called for Acosta`s resignation.  Do the Secretary`s performance today -- his arguments persuade you in any way that what he did was right?

SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN):  Not at all.  I mean, Acosta needs to go.  And this argument that times have changed over the last you know, ten or 12 years, I mean come on, it`s not like this happened when women didn`t have the right to vote and then walked around in top hats.  It`s not that long ago.

And I think we have to keep in mind that this job that Acosta has is a job running the Department of Labor.  The purpose of this agency is to stand up for people who don`t have a lot of power, in a world where powerful rich people just exactly like Epstein and others are there to take advantage of you.  This is what his job is and I think it makes him particularly unsuited to continue as a Secretary of Labor.

HAYES:  Is there consensus among your caucus on this?  I saw that a few folks, Joe Manchin and Cortez Masto do not seem to be there in terms of calling for his resignation.  What is -- what is your sense of where the caucus is at?

SMITH:  Well, you know, I can`t speak for my whole caucus.  I`ve had conversations with many people.  John Tester really stands out.  He talked this morning about how he supported Acosta initially and with this new information coming out, he can`t see how he could possibly stay in this position.

I mean let`s be clear, this is a prosecution that completely ignored the rules which say that you need to check with the victims before you come up with a plea deal or a non -- you know, you come up with an agreement with the perpetrator.  And the very least he didn`t do that and that is just unacceptable.

HAYES:  It looks like there`s going to be some oversight hearings in the House.  Would you like him to come -- would you like to see that?  Would you like him to come to the Senate?  It seems that today was his sort of one go of it but I suspect there will be more opportunities for him to explain himself.

SMITH:  Well, you know, we`ll wait and see.  I suspect that he had one audience in mind when he gave his press conferences today and that was the President of the United States and we`ll see what he thinks about it.

I don`t think that he persuaded me nor many of my colleagues that are really worried about the way in which he couldn`t even apologize to these now women.  These were -- these were children.  They were teenagers when this happened to them.  So I would love to see some oversight here.

But as you know right now, we don`t do a lot of oversight in the United States Senate.  The United States Senate is kind of the place under Mitch McConnell`s leadership where good ideas go to die.

HAYES:  What is your broader sense -- the message that this White House administration sends to women and to survivors of sexual violence, sexual assault, and sexual harassment from the top on down, when you look at the president, the things he said, the way that he basically said that the woman who accused him of rape on the record was essentially not attractive enough for him to rape, was not his type, to the defense now of Acosta?

SMITH:  Well, when the President said that, that infuriated me because he chose to be disrespectful of a woman and to suggest that sexual assault is not about power and violence which is what it is.  But I think the administration has an opportunity to show what they think about this by the actions that they take with Acosta.

You know, the Department of Labor is charged with overseeing human trafficking along with all sorts of laws that protect the dignity of people who are working, wage -- direct people against wage theft and the rights to organize collectively for better working conditions.  And I think they can show us how they feel about women by what they do with Acosta in the --- in the coming days, and I don`t think that you should stay in that position.

HAYES:  All right, Senator Tina Smith, thank you so much for being with me tonight.

SMITH:  Thanks so much, Chris.

HAYES:  I want to turn to former U.S. Attorney Joyce Vance and MSNBC Legal Analyst and MSNBC -- PBS NewsHour White House Correspondent Yamiche Alcindor who is also an MSNBC Political Analyst.

Joyce, as a former prosecutor, someone who ran a U.S. Attorney`s office, so you had supervisory role, right, you were -- you had people that working for you, that we`re prosecuting cases, that were running things up to you as the boss for important decisions to make which is the role Acosta was in.  He was not the sort of line prosecutor on this case.  Were you persuaded by Acosta`s account today of why things went down the way they did?

JOYCE VANCE, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST:  You know, Chris, I wasn`t, not in the least.  And I spent almost -- well, I spent more than 25 years at DOJ.  I was a line prosecutor, I ran our Appellate Division, I was ultimately the U.S. attorney.  One thing that anyone in a U.S. Attorney`s Office knows is that the buck stops with the U.S. Attorney.

And so this notion that he tried to throw the career prosecutors, the FBI, the state prosecutors under the bus and not take responsibility for the decision here to let Epstein off with an on prosecuting agreement really rang very hollow.

HAYES:  Yes, that`s one of the things that Palm Beach prosecutor said in response, Yamiche.  I mean, this was not a -- there was a version of this one can see where you would say look, I think we probably got this wrong in hindsight.  I wish we done it differently.  That was not at all Acosta`s position today in that press conference.

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST:  People close to me -- people close to the president tell me that Acosta was really encouraged to have this press conference by President Trump.  So what you saw him certain times looking directly into the camera instead of answering some of the questions were answer -- while he was answering some of the questions from reporters like me, he looked out into the camera and said look, I didn`t -- I wouldn`t have done anything differently.  I understand what`s going on here and the media is getting this wrong.

And it sounded a lot like President Trump who of course is the person drawn to hold this press conference.  And I think what you see there is him not apologizing, not saying I regret some of the things I could -- I did.  I could have done things differently.  And he`s doing that because frankly, the president doesn`t do that.

His boss is essentially saying look, get on T.V., give the best defense you can, and if you -- if you perform in the way I think is appropriate, then I`ll give you -- I`ll let you keep your job and if not, then I won`t.

So what you saw him -- was him shifting blame and trying to tell other people you know, you could have done a better job and I was a hero in this situation, but in reality he wasn`t really saying here are the things I did wrong and here`s some things that I could have done differently.

HAYES:  Yes.  And Joyce, something that strikes me is that he may actually believe that too.  It`s always striking to me that people in powerful positions often have a very hard time saying they do something wrong in retrospect.

It`s not -- I mean, not just Trump and not just Acosta, like as a uniform fact about it, but particularly the idea that the local prosecutor was going to screw it up and the Feds salvaged it, you know, does that scan to you?

VANCE:  You know, it just really doesn`t work -- excuse me.  And I doubt quite honestly that that`s what Acosta truly believes.  He was one of these U.S. attorneys who was and really still is revered by the people who worked for him and with him.  I think he has to know that they got this wrong and these cases are complicated.

And I always hesitate to question, to second-guess other people`s judgments but there`s enough on the table with this case that at least in hindsight we know that they got it wrong.  What would have been so horrible about apologizing to the victims, coming clean, and saying that he did it wrong?  It`s obvious to everyone but it Acosta at this point.

HAYES:  Yes.  And Yamich, I mean, I think you`re right, the analysis that this is like a performance for the president.  There`s also the fact that you have these people sort of whispering in the background trying to soften the ground.  Like all of a sudden, I see all these articles about Acosta was on the rocks even before all this, and you know, he was not a doctrinaire enough, right winger at Department of Labor so maybe he`s expendable.

ALCINDOR:  Well, Acosta also said during the press conference Mick Mulvaney called me up and told me to tell reporters that we have an outstanding relationship, that everything is going great.  That is an admission in a sense of transparency that`s basically saying your boss`s right-hand man told you to go on T.V. and say this.

So I think what you have is Acosta in some ways letting people know, look, people told me I needed to do this so here I`m going to do this.  I was struck by the idea that I asked him very specifically what`s your message to the victims and his message was you should come forward.  He didn`t say anything like I`m sorry that this had happened to you even if -- even if I think I did the right thing here.

We should have maybe been thinking of you and we`re sorry that you weren`t satisfied with the outcome.  That would have been him not admitting wrong but he would have at least been giving them victims something to hold on to.  Instead what he did was essentially put the onus on the victims, put the onus on the state prosecutors, put the onus on the grand -- the state grand jury. 

Basically, everyone has something to blame and everyone is to blame for this except for Secretary Acosta.  And I think that`s pretty striking.  But that also is like in some ways again marrying the President`s own behavior.

HAYES:  Joyce Vance and Yamiche Alcindor, thanks to you both.  Quick correction on something I said earlier.  Senator Cortes Masto of Nevada does and has called for our Secretary Acosta to resign.  I think of initially I saw a first quote from her but since then her thinking has developed.  So apologies about that.

Ahead, how Jeffrey Epstein fits into one of the defining features of our era where the powerful seem to get away with whatever they want.  The impunity of the elite in two minutes.


HAYES:  One thing I`ve noticed about Jeffrey Epstein`s arrest is that it created at least initially a rare moment, a relative trans ideological unity.  Now partially that`s because Epstein has been linked to prominent Democrats and Republicans and partisans of all stripes are hoping he brings down someone on the other team.  But it is also because Epstein seems to be the perfect example of a certain kind of elite impunity.

Those with power are getting away with things and that has been one of the defining features of our era and an engine of discontent and anti- establishment anger that continues to roil all politics to this day.  Or as Michelle Goldberg put it in her latest column "if it were fiction it would be both too sorted and too on-the-nose to be believable like a season of True Detective penned by a doctrinaire Marxist.

Joining me now is Michelle Goldberg, Columnist for the New York Times along with Jesse Eisenger, he`s Senior Reporter and Editor of ProPublica who wrote an entire book on how the titans of finance escaped criminal charges in the aftermath of the financial crisis.  It really does read like almost over the top morality.

MICHELLE GOLDBERG, COLUMNIST, NEW YORK TIMES:  Right.  And it just keeps getting more and more so right when you read about this private island that he had, never mind the bizarre temple that it seems like he built on this island, but the fact that it was sort of known locally as Pedophile Island and yet -- and yet as far as we know, it was never searched.

And you know, the thing about Jeffrey Epstein is that this was out in the open before his arrest right.  Donald Trump was famously quoted saying you know, he likes beautiful women as much as I do, many of them on the younger side.  It was you know, it`s kind of a wink-wink, nudge-nudge thing. 

And then he goes to jail and he comes out and he`s not shunned right.  He`s shunned by some people but he`s still having dinner parties, he`s still walking around Manhattan as if you know, as if this was just like a little kind of a traffic skirmish or something.

And so yes, I mean, I think you know, one of the grim and horrific lessons of our politics in recent years is that you can buy your way out of the most disgusting of crimes.

HAYES:  And one of the -- one of the lessons that comes to me in watching Acosta today, Jesse, I thought -- I thought of you and your book is I don`t think Acosta thinks in his heart he made a corrupt deal to a powerful person in the same way that I think there`s a lot of editors there out there in the world who said no to investigative stories on very powerful men in the MeToo Movement who don`t think they meet a corrupt deal, and there are prosecutors who didn`t prosecute folks at the major banks who don`t think the mayor of a corrupt deal.

They all think on the merits this was the right call.  We didn`t have enough, but they didn`t have enough is in the context of extremely powerful legal teams breathing down your neck.

JESSE EISINGER, SENIOR REPORTER AND EDITOR, PROPUBLICA:  Right.  The -- well there`s an institutional problem that they don`t investigate these cases properly, they don`t prosecute the cases properly, they`re incompetent, so we`ve lost the will and ability to prosecute top corporate executives.  So -- but then it goes on and over and expands so we`re not prosecuting tax crimes, we`re not prosecuting a high-end real estate, we`re not prosecuting corporate lobbying, we`re not --

HAYES:  I mean, Paul Manafort is the best example.  It`s just like hanging out there just climbing it up everywhere he goes, and they did nothing until he just falls into -- he happens to stumble backwards into the Mueller probe.

EISINGER:  And Epstein also is sitting there with this you know, I`m so sad that I have been focused more on the potential for white-collar crime here than the sex scandal.

HAYES:  Right.

EISINGER:  But nothing about his business or career makes any sense at all.  And so is he --

HAYES:  He`s apparently a billionaire.  He`s managing billionaires but we`ve only ever heard of one client.  Like the whole thing doesn`t add up.

GOLDBERG:  Right.  And his mentor was a famous Ponzi schemer who is now in prison.  You know --

HAYES:  I forgot that.  Right, yes.

GOLDBERG:  And the other thing that I think is important is that Acosta -- this isn`t the first time that Acosta has had to account for his behavior in this case.  He wrote a letter to The Daily Beast in 2011 when they were investigating part of this and so a lot of it tracked with what he said today but not all of it.

Because at that time he was making a much bigger deal about what they were up against in terms of the power of Epstein`s attorneys.  You know, that`s probably a less convincing argument to make for politically.  Like how could we stand up to Alan Dershowitz and these two other lawyers?

You know, it was -- it was this assault and we couldn`t withstand it right.  I mean, it`s a pathetic excuse.  That`s kind of the best case scenario.  That`s the least corrupt version of what happened here is that they folded in the face of all of the money that he had to spend on his defense.

HAYES:  I also think about Cy Vance, Manhattan District Attorney who now has quite a record in which there was evidence of criminal wrongdoing by the Trump children in misrepresenting in violation of criminal statute law, the vacancy rates of hotel, of the condo they`re trying to sell --


HAYES:  -- didn`t press charges.  Vance also got money from the Trump`s.  Harvey Weinstein with the tape, the infamous tape, Cy Vance doesn`t press charges.  And then in this case, they have to downgrade what level of sexual offender he was that the judge is like what the heck are you doing?  You know, it makes you wonder.

EISINGER:  And incompetence in DSK, the list goes on.  And then there was a Columbia University OBGYN, 19 accusers in the sexual assault.  Vance`s office didn`t give him any jail time at all, any prison time at all.

This is -- there`s incompetence, there`s potential corruption here Acosta possibly, Vance possibly, you know campaign finance, donations, Kasowitz, Marc Kasowitz, the Trump lawyer gave a donation to Vance and Vance then overruled his prosecutorial team that wanted to give -- bring charges against Donny Trump Jr. and Ivanka.

You know, you run that and if his children had been charged with felony, fraud, does he become president.  It`s very hard to imagine.

HAYES:  I also am seeing this like there also is this sort of like blooming conspiracy theory on Epstein because he`s so McCobb.  You know, there`s like -- this like idea it`s like -- it`s like a kind of pizza gate scenario where people are like there`s this enormous --


HAYES:  -- and a file ring that involves like every famous person you know and it`s all going to be revealed.

GOLDBERG:  And then it is, right.

HAYES:  But I don`t know.  I guess my -- sort of my feeling is it like because it fits so perfectly so many of the sort of aspects of our era and elite impunity, I feel like people also are maybe getting a little out of - - ahead of all the facts are.

GOLDBERG:  Yes -- no, I think that`s probably true and I think that the conspiracy theorists maybe into it correctly this culture of --

HAYES:  Yes, right.

GOLDBERG:  -- impunity, corruption, depravity, etcetera.  In the case of pizza gate, they have this insane conspiracy theory that the President of the United States is actually a hero in all of this as opposed to a participant, right.  I mean that`s the central myth at the heart of pizza gate.  But you`re right that this does feed into all of our kind of cultural tropes about what corruption --

HAYES:  What they`re doing behind closed doors.

GOLDBERG:  Yes.  And then -- and so -- and then when you turn -- it turns out that at least part of that is true.

HAYES:  Exactly.

GOLDBERG:  It`s very difficult to tell where wild conspiracy theory -- theorizing ends and where things really are just worse than we imagined.

HAYES:  Michelle Goldberg and Jesse Eisinger, thank you both for joining us.

EISINGER:  Thank you.

HAYES:  Next, inside the first oversight hearing into immigrant detention and the heart-wrenching first-hand account of what led to the death of a woman`s infant daughter.


HAYES:  Today the House Oversight Committee held the first of three hearings into the treatment of migrant children at the border.  One Guatemalan mother Yazmin Juarez testified about the death of her one and a half-year-old daughter.

Juarez speaking in Spanish, their translator told Congress about she and her daughter`s detention in March of last year.  She told lawmakers that her daughter fell ill with a respiratory infection and it only got worse because of the substandard care she received in detention.  The little girl passed away six weeks after being released from ICE custody.


YAZMIN JUAREZ, IMMIGRANT (text):  My name is Yazmin Juarez.  My daughter Mariee and I fled Guatemala seeking asylum in the United States.  We made this journey because we feared for our lives.  The trip was dangerous but I was more afraid of what might happen if we stayed.

So we came to the United States where I hoped to build a better, safer life for us.  Unfortunately, that did not happen.  Instead, I watch my baby girl die slowly and painfully just a few months before her second birthday.

All the hard work of these doctors come too late.  My Mariee died on what is Mother`s Day in my country.  When I walked out of the hospital that day, all I had with me was a piece of paper with Mariee`s handprints in pink paint that the staff had created for me.  It was the only thing that I had left, and the nurses had given it to me as a Mother`s Day gift. 


HAYES:  Yasmin Juarez is still seeking asylum in the United States.

I`m joined now by one of the other witnesses who testified in that hearing today, Hope Frye, who is an immigration attorney and the executive director of Project Lifeline, which works to help immigrant children.

Also joining me tonight, MSNBC correspondent Jacob Soboroff, who has broken numerous stories about the treatment of migrants at the border including yesterday`s exclusive about allegations by migrant children of sexual assault and retaliation by border agents in Yuma, Arizona.

Ms. Frye, let he start with you.  You testified today.  And you spent time in migrant facilities -- detention facilities with children.  What did you want to make clear to congress about what you have seen?

HOPE FRYE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PROJECT LIFELINE:  I wanted to make it clear  that this is cruel and unusual and intentional punishment of children who haven`t done anything, who are coming here fleeing draconian circumstances.  They`re children who come into our care, and we treating them -- we treat our dogs better than we treat these children.

I wanted congress to understand that you can`t throw money at it, that once they were outed for what was happening at the Clint facility in El Paso, they released a CBP -- went down from 2,500 children to 350, before the appropriations bill came out.

This isn`t a situation where you throw money, this is a question of the choices we make and the choices that we make as an American people.

HAYES:  Jacob, you have reported about this Yuma facility, and it relates to something that Hope Frye said there that`s now a kind of central question, I think, before congress and the nation, which is to what degree are these facilities essentially overwhelmed and incapacitated by a genuine upsurge in families and children arriving, and to what degree is there something broken in the culture of CBP and ICE vis-a-vis how the people who have to care for these children are treating them?

JACOB SOBOROFF, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT:  I think that`s the key question, Chris, because what we`ve seen so far is in Texas, in the Rio Grande Valley, where Ms. Frye was, where I have been in that McAllen border patrol processing station, also in the El Paso sector, obvious overcrowding issues, unsanitary conditions, children getting sick, no access to showers, toothbrushes, et cetera.  At this point, it`s familiar to all of us.

That`s also what was going on in Yuma.  And what we discovered when we got what are called  significant incident reports from children that are moved from the border patrol station in Yuma into health and human services.

But what we discovered that we had not yet seen in Texas and Yuma was a systematic effort,  allegedly by border patrol agents, to intimidate, and in the worst case, abuse and do illegal activities in which these children were the victims, including alleged sexual assault of a 15-year-old girl who was  groped on her breasts and her genitals by a border patrol agent is what she told her case manager at HHS.  We heard about literal retaliation for asking to have clean water and edible food by a group of young boys.  The mats were taken out of their cells by border patrol agents.

So you have to start to look closer at this.  And certainly, perhaps some of the same stuff was going on in Texas as well as in Arizona.

HAYES:  I want to play a clip -- Hope, did you want to say something?  I`m sorry.

FRYE:  I did.  The same thing is going on in the Rio Grande Valley border patrol sector.  We talked to many children who were actively punished by having mats taken away from them at 3:00 in the morning, having the door closed so they couldn`t go to the bathroom for some infraction, for asking for something.

I talked to mothers who had tried to get their children seen by the doctor because they had fevers who were then the blanket, it`s a piece of thin aluminum foil actually, was taken away from them as punishment for trying to get their child seen.  So I think that may be a systemic problem not unique to Yuma.

HAYES:  There is also a question of how many people are being detained.  And one of the things that I think has sort of flown under the radar here, Jacob, is when that shutdown happened over the border wall, the funding deal that was struck was going to cap the detention beds at 40,000, right?  This is one of the things the Democrats said the Trump administration is detaining too many people.  It doesn`t need to detain these people who are not a public safety threat.  And we now have ICE saying that they have 54,000 beds. 

So, they have shot past the cap that congress put on them in terms of the number of folks detained.

SOBOROFF:  This is what deterrence looks like.  We`ve talked about this throughout the entire course of this crisis that has been amplified by the Trump administration.  They want migrants to see what`s going on.  They want it to look this way, because they believe people will turn around and not come to this country by using what appeared to be cruel conditions, inhumane conditions, inhospitable  conditions.

If they truly wanted to cap the number, they would cap the number.  But we continue to see people incarcerated.  We continue to see people in conditions that are frankly not good for their health.  If they want to get people out of these conditions, they could do it, Chris, but they continue to lock people up.

HAYES:  The final question -- Hope.  Yeah, go ahead.

FRYE:  Can I add something to that?  That the Rio problem, the cruelty starts at the border patrol, but the actual clog in the pipeline are the ORR shelters where the children, unaccompanied children, go where they are failing to release them, because those shelters are run by for-profit contractors.  So they make a per head, per bed dollar on each child.  So there is no incentive to  release children.

It`s failure to release that causes the backlog that causes children to be kept unbelievable amounts of time at border patrol in these horrible conditions.

HAYES:  All right, Hope Frye and Jacob Soboroff, thank you both.

Still ahead, New Orleans could be under water on Saturday, but the Trump administration is going to great lengths to stop you from finding out why.

Plus, when Trump speaks from the heart, that`s tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two, next.


HAYES:  Thing One tonight, along with drain the swamp and build the wall, one of Donald Trump`s frequent refrains on the campaign trail was his great disdain for the teleprompter. 


TRUMP:  I don`t use teleprompters.  I don`t like.  They`re too easy.  Other people use teleprompters.  Maybe when you run for president, you shouldn`t be allowed to use a teleprompter, because you find out what you`re getting.

I don`t believe in teleprompters, although it`s very easy -- oh, would I like to go up and stand and read a speech for a half and hour and just leave.

You know, the beautiful thing is I don`t use teleprompters, because I speak from the heart, right, and the head -- but the heart.


HAYES:  Both the heart and the head and the heart and the head.

Of course, once Trump became president he started using teleprompters all the time, especially for big events like his Fourth of July jamboree.


TRUMP:  In June of 1775, the Continental Congress created a unified army out of the revolutionary forces encamped around Boston and New York.  Our army manned the airports, it ran the ramparts.  It took over the airports.  It did everything it had to do.


HAYES:  You heard that right, they rammed the ramparts and took over the airports in the 1770s.

Trump blamed that flub on, you guessed it, his teleprompter.


TRUMP:  The teleprompter went out.  It  kept going on -- and then at the end it just went out.  It went kaput.  So I could have said -- and actually, right in the middle of that sentence, it went out.  And that`s not a good feeling.


HAYES:  Now as someone who has also been there when the prompter goes out, I completely agree, it is not a good feeling.  But it`s not just technical problems that produce presidential ad libs of that caliber, sometimes the president chooses to ignore his prepared remarks, and that`s when you get moments like this today. 


TRUMP:  The kidney has a very special place in the heart, it`s an incredible thing.


HAYES:  It truly is.

The off prompter hall of fame is Thing Two in 60 seconds.


HAYES:  Donald Trump gave a speech in Washington today ahead of signing an executive order on kidney disease and care.  And for the most part, Trump stuck to the script and everything went smoothly.  But just as he was wrapping up, the president went off prompter, and things got a little weird.


TRUMP:  You have worked so hard on the kidney.  Very special.  The kidney has a very special  place in the heart.  It`s an incredible thing.  People that have to go to this, people that have loved ones that are working so hard to stay alive, they have to work so hard.  There is a esprit de corps, there is a spirit like you see rarely on anything.


HAYES:  Very special place in the heart for the kidney.  And with that, our list of all-time greatest Trump ad libs got a little longer.


TRUMP:  This is a tough hurricane.  One of the wettest we`ve ever seen from the standpoint of  water.

I hope they now go and take a look at the oranges, the oranges of the investigation, the beginnings of the investigation.

Take care of the floors, you know, the floors of the forest.  Very important.  I was with the president of Finland, and he said we have a much different.  We`re a forest nation.  He called it a forest nation.  And they spent a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things.  And they don`t have any problem.

You`ve really put a big investment in our country.  We appreciate it very much, Tim Apple.

I was down there, and I watched our police and our firemen down in 7- Eleven, down at the World Trade Center, right after it came down.

If you have a windmill anywhere near your house, congratulations, you house just went down 75 percent in value.  And they say the noise causes cancer.  You tell me that one, OK?  RR, RRR, you know the thing makes -- it`s so -- of course it`s like a graveyard for birds.

The kidney has a very special place in the heart.  It`s an incredible thing. 



HAYES:  We showed you images on Monday of the absolutely insane flooding in Washington, D.C. when the Capitol was soaked by 4 to 6 inches of rain every hour.  This guy, for instance, talking on a cell phone while standing on the hood of a car on a flood  highway.

Now here are some images from New Orleans this morning where some parts got up to 10 inches of rain.  This is just part of a broader trend.  This map shows rainfall this past month.  The darkest color on the map is the record wettest rainfall, the next darkest color is much above average.  The last 12 months are the wettest ever across the U.S. from the standpoint of water.

But that`s just the prologue, because right now the first potential hurricane of the season, possible Hurricane Barry, like the HBO Hitman, is forming in the Gulf of Mexico.  It is forecast to become a tropical storm and could develop into a hurricane before it makes landfall on Saturday.

Now that doesn`t sound too bad.  Obviously, New Orleans has seen worst, except the storm surge being projected right now could push the Mississippi River up to 20 feet.  And the lowest river levees along the Mississippi are about 20 feet.  Not great.

Meteorologist Eric Holthouse warns if the Mississippi River breaches a levee, it may not be possible to return it to its previous state, quote, "this would cripple America`s agricultural and petrochemical industries, deal a potentially fatal blow to New Orleans and change the course of American history."  Gulp.

Louisiana`s governor has already declared a state of emergency. 

Now, climate models tend to agree that the era of climate crisis will feature more and more precipitation, just one of the man effects that the Trump administration is doing everything in its power to make sure that you never heard about.

Today, the Wall Street Journal reported that a State Department intelligence analyst resigned in protest after the White House blocked portions of his written testimony to a congressional panel to exclude data and evidence of climate change and its threat to national security.

The White House and the entire institutional Republican Party, basically all of it, they can close their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears all they want, but as the people of New Orleans will tell you, the water will come.


HAYES:  As former House Speaker John Boehner will be the first to tell you, keeping a house majority together is no easy feat.  And the six month old Democratic house majority already appears to have some significant fissures, both rhetorical and substantive.  Two weeks ago, the  current speaker, Nancy Pelosi, passed a supplemental funding bill for the Department of Homeland Security that was identical to a bipartisan bill that emerged from the Senate.

Now, Pelosi barely won a majority from her own caucus with 95 defections over the fact the bill it no new constraints on DHS, Customs and Border Protection, or ICE behavior and standards of care.  The Hispanic caucus called it, quote, a betrayal of our American values.

The most prominent criticism came from some freshmen legislators, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, and Ayanna Pressley.

Pelosi then responded with a swipe and an interview with The New York Times Maureen Dowd, quote, "all these people have their public whatever and their Twitter world, they don`t have any following.  They are four people.  That`s how many votes they got."

Speaker Pelosi then followed it up with a stern talking to in the closed door caucus meeting today where she warned members to keep intraparty squabbles in the family.

So, is this normal friction, holding a diverse caucus together, or something deeper?  Joining me now, Donna Edwards, former Democratic congresswoman from Maryland, and Matt Fuller, HuffPost congressional reporter.

Donna, I will go to you.  I remember you knocked off a sitting Democratic incumbent who was part of the establishment and protected by him, and you came to congress as a sort of insurgent, I think it was fair to say.  I`m wondering what your perspective is on this moment as you watch this unfold.

DONNA EDWARDS, (D-MD) FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN:  It feels like deja vu.  But I will say this, I think that there is understandable tension, and there always has been, between progressives and the leadership.  I mean, their jobs and their responsibilities are different.  The progressives` responsibility is to try to push the envelope, and of course leadership to maintain the caucus.

But here, they need each other.  And I think that for a progressives, they are asked all the time, take one for the team, give one for the team.  And every once in a while, they need the team to give one for them.

HAYES:  Huh, that`s interesting.

I mean, Matt, I saw you tweeting about this.  And you have been a great chronicler of the House Republican majority, which was just a remarkable thing to watch.  It had this Freedom Caucus.  And that was kind of like a - - it was almost like a third party, right, it was like a junior partner in a coalition, but they basically said, like, I don`t know how many it was, 40 votes, 45 votes?


HAYES:  35.  It was like you get our 35 votes as a bloc.  And because of that, they had tremendous leverage over what John Boehner or what Paul Ryan could do. What do you think is developing on the Democratic side?

FULLER:  Well, I think you are seeing the same dynamics play out, right.  I mean, yes, Pelosi is sort of right that they are four votes, but she`s wrong that this is just four votes.  This is -- outside of congress, it`s much more.  And this is sort of the heart and soul of the Democratic Party.

So, what I think you are going to see is eventually these four members work -- I mean, there is a 97-member progressive caucus and this also parallels with the Republican Party, you had the Republican Study Committee, which is sort of how the Freedom Caucus was created.  And we say 35, but it was really the Freedom Caucus -- the true math of that has always been more like 20 and 25.  A good way to think of it is consent concentric of hell where you have the guys in the solid middle who are the most firm and then, you know, it goes out and out until people really -- it doesn`t really matter that they are part of the caucus, but they are there.

And I think you are going to see that again with Democrats.  You know, these four are going to figure out a way to convince 12 or so.  They are going to get new members into congress.  And I think that you are going to see a new Freedom Caucus on the left, whatever they want to call it, and they`re going to figure out that this is the only way they can really flex their muscle, because frankly Nancy Pelosi has forced them in this position.

HAYES:  Well, I guess the question, Donna, is how do you -- over time, leadership has gotten more and more power, right.  One of the things that has happened is chairs have gotten less, leadership has more power, the House runs on a stricter party line vote than it used to say a generation ago.  What do you think about the kind of more public pronouncements, you know, and people tweeting at each other or tweeting critiques or giving interviews where they are not towing the party line?

EDWARDS:  Well, look, I think that, one, it was probably inappropriate to tweet about individual members or for staff to do that.  But also, I don`t think it was the best move for Speaker Pelosi, frankly, to call out those four by name, because if you actually look at the final vote on border security, it was 95.  It wasn`t just the four who were opposed to that bill that came out of the senate.

And so there is leverage there.  I think that leadership is going to have to be smart about the way it is that they both use and challenge the progressive caucus.  But progressives are going to have to be smart about what it is they are demanding out of all of their caucus.

HAYES:  And what I think is important thing, Matt, to focus on here aside from the tweeting back and forth, there is a substantive disagreement.  I mean, the folks that voted against it basically said money is not the issue, the problem at the border detention facilities is not because of resources, it`s because of what the standards are and the culture of CBP.  And there need to be strings attached.

I mean, that was -- there was an actual debate and disagreement about what needed to be done.

FULLER:  Right, and we`ll note that those four members actually voted against the Democratic plan, that they said right from the beginning this wasn`t good enough for them.

So, you know, yeah, I guess I get Pelosi`s gripe, which is basically if you are not going to vote for the Democratic plan, then why are we even letting you in on the whole conversation, which again, this is a parallel you are seeing with the Republican Party.  It was basically like John Boehner and Paul Ryan saying if you are not going to vote for our appropriations bills or our budget, then why are we including you in the negotiations?

But, you know, they have a fundamental disagreement about the cure for this crisis and they just don`t think it`s money.

HAYES:  Right.  Yeah.

Do you think -- where do you think it goes next, Donna?

EDWARDS:  Well. I mean, look, I think this was one instance.  I suspect that there is going to be a little bit more reserve on both parties about who gets called out more publicly.  But I do think that this continues to be a fight that gets played out within the caucus on these substantive issues.

HAYES:  I think so, too, particularly on approps bills.  Donna Edwards and Matt Fuller, thank you both.

That is ALL IN for this evening.  "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now.  Good evening, Rachel.