Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: September 28, 2018 Guest: Mazie Hirono, Chris Murphy, Kristine Lucius, Christina Beltran, Maya Wiley, Sandra Ford Mendler, Deborah Ford Peters, Jessica Valenti
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Survivors storm the capitol and high drama ensues in the Senate.
SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: I will only be comfortable moving on the floor until the FBI has done more investigation than they have already. After Brett Kavanaugh and the Senate and the president repeatedly refused there will now be an FBI investigation into the credible sexual assault allegations against the Supreme Court Nominee.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), NORTH CAROLINA: And somebody has got to explain this Trump. So I guess that would be my job.
HAYES: Tonight, how the President`s hand was forced.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The vote was a positive vote but this seems to be a delay.
HAYES: What we know about what the FBI will be investigating.
BRETT KAVANAUGH, NOMINEE, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Mark Judge was a friend of ours in high school.
HAYES: And reaction from the family of Christine Blasey Ford.
CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD, ACCUSER OF BRETT KAVANAUGH: I am here today not because I want to be. I am terrified.
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
FORD: I am here because I believe it is my civic duty to tell you it happened to me while Brett Kavanaugh and I were in high school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. It is not over. One day after the nation watch transfixed and horrified, a Senate hearing unlike anything anyone has ever seen and after it appeared that Judge Brett Kavanaugh was on a GOP party line path to confirmation to the United States Supreme Court despite testimony by Dr. Christine Blasey Ford that he sexually assaulted her, a monumental turn of events today bipartisan agreement to delay the final vote on Kavanaugh for an FBI investigation and an order by President Trump to conduct such an investigation.
Senator Jeff Flake at the center of today`s remarkable developments encountered protesters on his way to this morning`s Judiciary Committee vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you are doing is allowing someone who actually violated a woman to sit in the Supreme Court. This is not tolerable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: After more than an hour of cameras lingering on a committee room in which senators were often seen whispering to one another, Senator Flake announced his request for an FBI investigation as a condition to a full Senate vote on Judge Kavanaugh. More on those stunning minute by minute by minute developments in a moment, but it soon became clear that Senators Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins were with him. And with hours the Judiciary Committee issued an astonishing statement, I read here, "request the Administration instruct the FBI to conduct a supplemental FBI background investigation with respect to the nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh. The supplemental FBI background investigation would be limited to current credible allegations against the nominee and must be completed no later than one week from today." And soon after that from President Trump, in order to conduct such investigation, "limited in scope and completed in less than one week."
All this as Brett Kavanaugh high school friend Mark Judge the third person allegedly in the room during the sexual assault of Christine Blasey Ford said through his lawyer that "I will cooperate with any law enforcement agency that is assigned to confidentially investigate these allegations. The Senate just passed a motion to begin debate on Kavanaugh. They are now in recess until Monday. Although the next vote on Kavanaugh will not occur until after the FBI sends its findings to Congress.
Senator Mazie Hirono of wise a member of the Judiciary Committee and she joins me now. What is your read on what happened today?`
SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: What happened today was finally a senator who was so disturbed by the process and the prospect of someone with this kind of cloud being sent to the Supreme Court decided that he needed to do something about it and along with Chris Coons who`s a good friend of his who reached out to Jeff, we were able to come up with a process that`s going to result in an -- in an FBI investigation which the Democrats on the committee have been calling for, for what seems like months.
But of course, the FBI investigation has to be complete. it can`t be some sort of cursory kind of an investigation that gives cover to some wavering senators. So it`s got to be real. I expect them to put forth the resources that they need to do their jobs.
HAYES: I want to zero in on that cover. A cursory investigation that gets covered a wavering senators, that`s an interesting phrase. Is that your fear of what is going on here?
HIRONO: Well, I want to make sure that this is serious business and that they do what they need to do which is of course, to talk with Mark Judge and to really question him as to what kind of environment of partying and drinking was going on because Judge Kavanaugh denied all of this. And in fact, he said at the hearing that the three people who were there including Mark Judge had all exonerated him. No, they did not exonerated him, they all said they couldn`t remember. That is very different. Any judge should know there`s a difference between I can`t remember what happened from it didn`t happen.
So they need to query all of these witnesses as well as give us a much fuller more accurate picture of what`s going on because Judge Kavanaugh`s portrayal of himself as a person who just studied, and do service projects, went to church, did athletic -- did athletics is contradicted by people who knew him in both high school and college.
HAYES: What role do you think? There was a lot of protest. I mean, there`s been a tremendous mobilization by lots of people and particularly a lot of survivors. I think in the last two days they`ve been on Capitol Hill. They`ve been calling, they`ve been showing up, there were protests today outside Senate offices, does it have an effect inside that building there?
HIRONO: I think it does because this is a moment of a huge change for our country, how are we going to treat survivors of these kinds of horrendous acts. And this is a moment when all of the people in our country who have experienced so many of them is all coming back to them and they see this as a moment for them to come forward and tell us and share us there -- the truth of their pain. And I don`t see how we as decision-makers can ignore that kind of pain that is going on throughout our country and it is all part I would say of a me-too movement.
HAYES: Let me ask you this. You are a no vote before the allegations surfaced, right, on Brett Kavanaugh for substantive and jurisprudential reasons, on the question of whether he did what he is alleged to have done, are you even -- are you persuadable, is the FBI report going to change your mind about how you feel about what you saw and heard yesterday?
HIRONO: I found Dr. Ford`s testimony and what -- and her accounts so credible because there were indicators of credibility. For one thing, she has nothing to gain from coming forward like this. Her life has been upended. She talked about this attack long before Judge Kavanaugh was ever nominated. She took a lie-detector test. There are indicators of a credibility around her and I also knew that up to today there was not going to be any kind of an independent FBI investigation so I believe her.
And we need to go forward. You know, these survivors not only need to be believed but they need to -- well, they need to not only be heard but believed. So I have all kinds of other substantive reasons for why I was against the Judge Kavanaugh`s nomination in terms of his lack of support for a reproductive choice, definitely not a friend of environmental protection laws, very expensive views of protecting the president from criminal or civil investigations. And so I there was a pattern to his decision-making.
And he also missed States the holding of a case. He misapplies cases, he misstates facts and that`s all part of his credibility. And of course this newest set of reports, that also lends to his lack of credibility in my opinion.
HAYES: Let me ask you in respond to what he said today after basically there was surprised somewhat that the White House, everyone just said well, OK, we`ll go along with this. This is Kavanaugh. Throughout this process, I`ve been interviewed by the FBI. I`ve done a number of background calls directly with Senate, and yesterday I answered questions under oath about every topic the senator and their counsel asked me. I`ve done everything they have requested and will continue to cooperate. What do you think of that?
HIRONO: I think the most telling thing as you have asked time and again yesterday that he is hiding behind the president who was -- I`m not going to call for an FBI investigation, hiding behind the Republicans who were not going to call for an investigation. For him to say I`m willing to cooperate, I will do whatever the committee says, knowing full well the committee was not going to request it. And he was asked time and again, how about you. You can break this impasse. Will you call for an FBI investigation and he would not answer.
See, that`s very telling because the people who came forward, the three women, they said we want an FBI investigation.
HAYES: Right. Senator Mazie Hirono, thank you so much for taking some time with us.
HIRONO: Thank you. Aloha.
HAYES: All right. For more on these extraordinary developments, I`m joined by Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut who is here in New York. It`s very nice to see you in person.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: Good to see you, Chris.
HAYES: What has -- what is your -- what is your constituent response been like in the last say 24 hours?
MURPHY: Yes, absolutely overwhelming. And obviously, the main focus is on my constituents belief that Dr. Ford is telling the truth and that Brett Kavanaugh throughout his testimony seemed to have a very loose grasp of the truth even with respect to some minor details about his high school days. But I got to tell you. I got just as much input about his tone in his tenor. There were lots of people who are calling our office, e-mailing our office about the idea that anyone Republican, or Democrat would allow somebody to get onto the Supreme Court who is this political, who nakedly claimed in front of the committee that this was all just a liberal Democratic pro-Clinton conspiracy.
HAYES: Revenge for the Clintons.
MURPHY: Revenge for the Clintons, something that he frankly didn`t have to say in order to defend himself against these specific charges. And so I would say I was a little surprised that there was as much concern about his demeanor as there was about that specific charges. So yesterday I felt like we witnessed -- there`s a lot of ways to parse yesterday, but a lot of people felt like something was wrong and breaking.
I mean, wrong in that it felt like there was a kind of torture that was being imposed on Dr. Blasey Ford, the weirdness of those prosecutors who was hired and it discarded and then also just a sense of people that there`s some kind of like profound legitimacy crisis that we`re watching happen in slow motion. You`re a member of that body. Do you feel that way?
MURPHY: Yes, I don`t think you can help but feel that way because you just have to compare this back to a prior similar hearing. The Anita Hill hearing, you had 20-plus witnesses that were called spanning several days here. You had two witnesses even though you had other eyewitnesses who could add a lot to the discussion. So it does feel like something is fundamentally breaking. And I almost appreciate the fact that the Republicans, in the end, took the mask off, right. They stopped allowing their prosecutor to ask questions. They decided to turn it into a big political show because you saw what their endgame here was, not really getting to the truth but doing whatever was necessary to try to jam him through.
HAYES: You know, today, Chris Coons and Jeff Flake got together on this compromise and you know there`s a lot of people I think who sort of harken back to those days and they really want to see the Senate function like that, and then I was talking to a lot of people who were watching in they`re -- on the outside, a lot of citizens, and these are very active citizens. Like, how could you -- how could these people be friends with each other? Like how can you not hate these people? I`m just curious. I`m so furious, I`m screaming at the T.V. like how psychologically and emotionally, how do you conduct yourself in that body with those twin impulses?
MURPHY: So one of the first things I did when these allegations broke was I went to one of my friends is one of the most conservative senators in the place just to sit down and hear him talk through how he was processing these allegations and --
HAYES: That`s interesting.
MURPHY: Yes, and so I think it`s important to put yourself in the shoes of folks who`s prism is different than yours. And I think more of that happens in the Senate than you think. And I think we have understanding about the fact that our worldviews are different, our constituencies are different, and frankly, the ecosystems we exist in are different. Sitting every day in the Republican caucus listening to Fox News is very different than what happens to us. And so, I think that allows us --
HAYES: You get the truth every night --
MURPHY: I get the truth from you. Right, exactly. So -- but I think that -- I think that there`s a little bit more of that -- of that ability to put yourself in somebody else`s shoes in the Senate than folks might think and it allows for moments like today to break through.
HAYES: But at the same time you have to balance that against the sense that there`s a sort of procedural maximalism that just keeps getting worse. I mean, fresh in the mind of a lot of people on Merrick Garland, people really feel like Dr. Ford has been treated incredibly shabbily, Republicans feel and I think in good faith feel this way based on my interviews with conservatives is talking about that they have been completely sabotage, it`s an ambush, it`s a hit job, yadda-yadda-yadda. Where does this go particularly around fights for these -- for the Supreme Court?
MURPHY: So I with my Republican friends would understand better the unique circumstances of these sexual abuse cases. I can understand their frustration about the lateness --
HAYES: The timing of this.
MURPHY: of many of these allegations and claims, but there is something unique about this kind of claim that I would hope they would understand.
HAYES: Yes, I mean, I wanted to scream yesterday like get it, totally stipulated, timing is terrible. Listen to what she`s saying. I mean, listen to what you saying.
MURPHY: Yes, and listen, if this was a claim about you know, a guy misrepresenting his income on a mortgage and that came out two days before the confirmation vote, then yeah you might have -- you might have a contest. But this is something unique and different.
HAYES: Do you what do you see happening this fall? There were 40 days away. You are running for re-election as are many other people. What do you -- what do you -- how does this sort of politics at this moment connect to that day in November?
MURPHY: Yes, I mean, the fury is real out there and I feel --
HAYES: You think they`ll yell at you for not fighting hard enough?
MURPHY: Sure, yes, all the time. All the time. And I just think that ultimately there`s a bit of a tipping point especially amongst women in which they watched their way in which she was treated. They watched the fundamentally different way in which not only was he treated but he was allowed to act a way that she never, right, that Dr. Ford never gotten away with. And that fundamental unfairness, there`s no way that that doesn`t have an impact in the polls, not unlike it did in 1992 when many women who served today in the Senate like Dianne Feinstein were elected.
HAYES: It`s going to be a very different place come January up there. It`s going to be fascinating. It`s like wanting a social experiment for the best. Senator Chris Murphy, thank you very much.
MURPHY: Thanks a lot.
HAYES: A dramatic and really extraordinary day on Capitol Hill that really needs to be seen to be believed. How it all went down step by step next.
HAYES: As we have discussed, the confirmation vote of Brett Kavanaugh has been delayed. The FBI will be investigating the allegations. But if you were not near a television this morning and early afternoon, you may miss the dramatic events which played out to bring us to this moment. After the wrenching hearing yesterday on Capitol Hill, the country woke up this morning to the news that Senator Jeff Flake after watching Dr. Christine Blasey Ford`s harrowing account of being sexually assaulted, she says, by Brett Kavanaugh, and Kavanaugh`s combative rebuttal, that Flake had decided his critical vote would be a yes on Kavanaugh`s nomination of the Supreme Court. Meaning that confirmation was all but assured.
Not long after that announcement on his way to a Senate Judiciary Committee meeting to advance Kavanaugh`s nomination to the full Senate, to take that vote that he had pledged that morning that had deflated so many activists, Jeff Flake was confronted in a Senate elevator by two women, two survivors in anguish over his decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you are doing is allowing someone who actually violated a woman to sit in the Supreme Court. This is not tolerable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what you`re telling all women in America. They should just keep it to themselves because if they have told the truth, you`re just going to help that man to power anyway. That`s what you`re telling all of these women. That`s what you`re telling me now. Look at me when I`m talking to you. You`re telling me that my assaulter doesn`t matter, that what happens to me doesn`t matter?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Inside the committee room, Democrats staged a last-ditch effort to produce some of the evidence that Republican majority has blocked. Senator Richard Blumenthal making a motion to subpoena Mark Judge the alleged accomplice in the attack on 15-year old Christine Blasey Ford.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT: We cannot in good conscience vote without hearing at least from Mark Judge. I would submit with all due respect Mr. Chairman that there are other witnesses essential for us to hear from. But today I am moving that we subpoena Mark Judge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That motion was quickly voted down. And after a contentious roll call vote to proceed on Kavanaugh`s nomination, later in the day at 1:30 p.m. some Democrat from the committee just got up and walked out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HIRONO: It`s very clear that the Republicans will break every norm, every rule to get this person on the Supreme Court. This has got to stop so I walked out.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), NEW YORK: You know, one of our colleagues talked about this being a sham. This is a sham what`s going on in there right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The remaining senators forged on with committee business speechifying back-and-forth about the confirmation process. And then as the 1:30 p.m. vote deadline approached, something strange started to happen. Flake got up from the seat and left the committee room bringing two Democrats with him, Chris Coons and Amy Klobuchar entering a side room off the chamber. You see them going in there. And Flake would proceed to stay in that chamber out of view of the cameras for over an hour. At some point, Ranking Member Diane Feinstein got up to join him and the business of the committee just ground to a halt.
Senators and staffers kept going in and out of the reside room where Flake was holed up while their colleagues from either side of the aisle whispered together as 1:30 the scheduled time for the vote came and went. C-SPAN 2 - picked up Feinstein on a hot mic talking to Chairman Chuck Grassley about Flake, something about him being able to "force it." But nobody watching had any idea what that might mean until Flake re-emerged into the committee room, this time coming in with a demand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FLAKE: I`ve been speaking with a number of people on the other side. We`d have conversations ongoing for a while with regard to making sure that we do due diligence here. And I think it would be proper to delay the floor vote for up to but not more than one week in order to let the FBI continue to do an investigation limited in time and scope to the current allegations that are there. And limited in time to no more than one week, and I will vote to advance the bill to the floor with that understanding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Okay so the understanding is there`s got to be an FBI investigation to further look into this in a week but will the President of the United States actually order that FBI investigation? Will Mitch McConnell hold to the deal? Minutes later, the President reacted to that dramatic plot twist during a meeting in the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, any comment on the request for a delay from Senator Flake, he wants a one week delay so the FBI can investigate further.
TRUMP: Well, I`m going to let the Senate handle that. They`ll make their decisions and they`ve been doing a good job and very professional. I`m just hearing a little bit about it because I`ve been with the president of Chile and we`re talking about some very important subjects, but I`m sure it will all be very good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Flake then proceeded to vote with his Republican colleagues to advance Kavanaugh`s nomination to the full Senate conceding that he wasn`t attaching any formal strings to the measure. He simply wouldn`t support Kavanaugh in the final vote, he seemed to imply, though never quite said without an FBI investigation. Flake would not be able to block Kavanaugh`s confirmation on his own. It`s just one vote. Democrats would have to flip at least one more Republican and hold their entire caucus to get to that 51 would vote majority.
Over the course, the afternoon, Republicans Lisa Murkowski, and Susan Collins, and Democrat Joe Manchin who`s up for reelection in Trump loving West Virginia all announced that they too supported Flakes move. And so unable to "plow right through" as Mitch McConnell put it last week, Republicans asked the White House to reopen Kavanaugh`s FBI background checks. And this evening the president who has said that wasn`t the FBI`s thing complied.
It`s safe to assume that right now at this very hour FBI agents have begun investigating the allegations against Brett Kavanaugh and Mark Judge`s beach getaway may be coming to an end. That`s next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FLAKE: I think it would be proper to delay the floor vote for up to but not more than one week in order to let the FBI continue to do an investigation limited in time and scope to the current allegations that are there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It was that moment, that statement from Jeff Flake this morning that prompts our Republican senators in the White House to finally agree to let the FBI investigate allegations of sexual misconduct against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. To give us a sense of how that investigation would play out, I`m joined by MSNBC Legal Analyst and former Watergate Prosecutor Jill Wine-Banks, as well as Kristine Lucius of the Leadership Conference who was a top advisor to Senator Patrick Leahy when he chaired the Judiciary Committee. And in that role, Kristine, let me start with you. The Judiciary Committee statement saying, the supplemental FBI background investigation would be limited to current credible allegations against the nominee must be completed no later than one week from today. How do you see this going as someone with familiarity with the process?
KRISTINE LUCIUS, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT FOR POLICY, THE LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE: So I`ve reviewed hundreds of background reports conducted by the FBI for pending judicial nominations and in my experience what happens is the FBI goes out and interviews a series of people and then they do a summary of those interviews and any other evidence that those interviews lead them to. So what I think happens next is that the FBI will go out and not just interview the two witnesses that the committee heard from yesterday but the witnesses who would have been there or could corroborate the evidence that was discussed at yesterday`s hearing.
But as I`m sure you know, what`s different about this is it should have been done before the hearing. What`s happened today is the decision to send the FBI out to do its supplemental background check after the hearing has already occurred, which is strange.
HAYES: I will note that I think it was 13 days ago that Dr. Ford first came forward and they`re doing it in a week. They could have just assented to it in a one-week timeline back when she came forward.
LUCIUS: Yeah, that would have made much more sense. And that`s how it`s supposed to be done. All of the examples I`ve worked on where the FBI was sent back out to do a supplemental background check it was done well before the hearing so that senators could be prepared for hearing questioning.
HAYES: Key person here is Mark Judge. I mean, this is the big -- he submitted this -- he one letter and then he submitted another statement. He`s got another statement that says he talks about the allegations in the Swetnick affidavit being categorically denied. He also says the following "I do not recall attending parties during 1981 and 1983 when I fondled or grabbed women in an aggressive or unwanted manner."
WINE-BANKS: He may not remember much because of his alcoholic condition at the time, so it may be...
HAYES: Which he cops to and has written about and has been in recovery.
WINE-BANKS: And those are things that the FBI needs to investigate. They also need to investigate when did he work at the Safeway, because that`s linked to about six weeks after...
HAYES: That`s right.
WINE-BANKS: The event and that`s another way of identifying the date. We need to look at Timmy`s house from July 1. The FBI has a lot of things to look at, but that involved a Dr. Mark Judge and PJ, and was in the time frame that it could have been. So who is he and where did he live and does it look like her drawing of the house?
HAYES: This is the July 1 Kavanaugh calendar, Tobin`s house, workouts, and then go to Timmy`s for skis, otherwise known as brewskis with Judge, Mark Judge. Tom, PJ, Bernie, and Squee (ph), and we know that PJ and Judge are two of the people that Dr. Ford named.
Kristine, how quickly can the FBI do this? I mean, let`s say they want to talk to six or seven witnesses, or eight witnesses. Can they fly around and get this done in the next seven days?
LUCIUS: Well, I think that they can move very quickly. But I also want to make clear I don`t think this investigation is just limited to Dr. Blasey Ford`s allegation.
HAYES: Great point.
LUCIUS: Senator Coons and Senator Flake had a colloquy during the committee`s markup today and they said the sexual assault allegations of Dr. Ford and others, the ones that were in front of the committee. So, I don`t think it`s just going to be about that one allegation. And, in fact, it should not be, because the other two credible allegations of sexual assault have not been investigated and there was no witness to testify to them yesterday.
HAYES: And I will say Julie Swetnick`s claims, which are really quite remarkable and extremely troubling if true, have been -- the kind of scope of them that Kavanaugh and Judge would drug women or spike punch, that they would -- that there were, you know, groups of men that would assault women. That -- the kind of lurid details have been taken as kind of ipso facto evidence, they`re or ridiculous. And it seems to me this is a great place for the FBI to bear down and do some investigating, because if they are ridiculous or fabricated or all the things that the people accused say, you would want the FBI to do those interviews.
WINE-BANKS: If he were innocent, he would have said in answer to Senator Durbin yes, I want the FBI to investigate, because that`s what innocent people do. The FBI will go out in an impartial way, will find out the evidence, they`ll find out the facts and we can all know whether he`s telling the truth or whether the three women are telling the truth. They may find more women.
They should also, of course, interview his college roommate who said that he was often incoherent and dead drunk, that he bragged about having had sexual conquests, even though he now claims that he was a virgin well into college, or for years after. We need to know these things, not because we have a prurient interest in his life, but because he may be a deciding vote on the highest court of our land and we need to know who he is.
He`s already shown that he can lie about a lot of little things. And some of them are really things that give you a clue to his character and to his lying, his pushing back and interrupting and being rude to senators. His questioning Klobuchar, and I think one other senator, maybe Coons, about what they like to drink. Those are clear signs he`s evading answers and lying.
HAYES: All right, Jill Wine-Banks and Kristine Lucius, thank you both for being with us.
LUCIUS: Thank you.
HAYES: Up next, how is Dr. Christine Blasey Ford doing one day after her courageous testimony on Capitol Hill. Two of her family members join me next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: I am here today not because I want to be. I am terrified. I am here because I believe it is my civic duty to tell you what happened to me while Brett Kavanaugh and I were in high school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Christine Blasey Ford told the world yesterday that Judge Brett Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her while they were in high school, an accusation Kavanaugh denies. Today, Dr. Ford has turned away from the spotlight back to her life as a professor, a wife and a mother. And I`m joined now by Dr. Ford`s sisters-in-law, Sandra Ford Mendler and Deborah Ford Peters. And thank you so much for making some time. The first question that so millions and millions of Americans have is how is she doing after yesterday?
SANDRA FORD MENDLER, DR. BLASEY FORD`S SISTER-IN-LAW: Yeah, she`s hanging in there. I think it`s a day to recover.
DEBORAH FORD PETERS, DR. BLASEY FORD`S SISTER-IN-LAW: I think she`s getting back to her life, reuniting with her children, and probably taking stock.
HAYES: How much have you all in her inner circle followed today`s news? I know the lawyers put out a statement, but are you happy to see that the FBI will be doing some further investigation?
MENDLER: Yeah, I think it`s really the most next step. So I know, Christy mentioned that a number of times, and we heard some really strong statements made by some of the senators and we were really happy with that news.
PETERS: Yeah, very grateful to Senator Flake and to everybody that has been willing to discuss this issue with appropriate importance.
HAYES: You know, a lot was made in the committee hearing by Republicans about the letter and who leaked it, who betrayed your sister-in-law`s confidentiality. And I just wonder, like, is that something she`s focused on? Does she feel betrayed by that? Or is she angry about that? Is that, at this point, something she`s spending a lot of emotional energy on?
PETERS: I sincerely doubt it. Christy`s been very sort of socially preparing to tell her story with all the emotion and implications for her life. So, I really doubt that`s getting much attention.
HAYES: Does she -- I mean, I`m sure she knows this, but I also know that she`s been preparing in this kind of insane, you know, situation, she`s moved out of her house, like what yesterday`s testimony meant to millions of people, particularly women, particularly survivors of sexual assault, is that -- is she hearing what it meant for people to watch her do what she did yesterday?
MENDLER: Yeah, yesterday it was, I think, a really important day for a lot of people. And we`ve heard from so many people about this. And I know she has also been flooded with people thanking her for coming forward.
And I think something that was complex about yesterday was that she came forward. It was a brave thing to do. It took all of her energy to do that. And I think it`s just hard to have that be followed with claims that having that hearing was a national disgrace. You know, I think that that was hard to hear.
And I think she was brave. She`s participating in a process that is meant to ask questions and explore candidates. And, yeah, I think that was hard. What was disgraceful about that?
HAYES: What was your reaction to the second half of that testimony yesterday from the judge?
PETERS: Well, I felt like the judge was so busy having emotions and avoiding simple yes and no questions that I feel he was avoiding putting together a narrative that would help us understand his perspective, how he knew Christine, what his life was like, who he is as a person. I felt he was extremely defensive and just really avoiding dialogue so that nobody could get inside, further inside of his life.
HAYES: A final question, do you know how Dr. Ford felt about the prosecutor from Arizona that questioned her and whether she felt that that was appropriate or she did a fair job?
PETERS: I don`t know about that.
MENDLER: I don`t know how she felt about it, but I thought that woman did a decent job.
HAYES: Thank you for saying I don`t know, which I really appreciate. Because a lot of times people just pretend they do. Sandra Ford Mendler and Deborah Ford Peters, thank you, thank you, thank you very much for joining us.
MENDLER: Thank you for having us.
HAYES: Dr. Christine Blasey Ford told the senate yesterday she was terrified as she did her civic duty. Still to come, the enormous effect of her bravery, what it has had already on both the inside the halls of congress and beyond.
HAYES: Given everything we`ve seen this week and how many are feeling it is as good a time as any to get involved and also to enjoy some fantastic music, which is why activists and music fans alike will descend upon Central Park tomorrow for the Seventh Annual Global Citizen Festival. I`ll be there to co-host along with Ari Melber and Joy Reid and to watch the likes of Janet Jackson, Cardi B, John Legend, The Weekend and Janelle Monae. Coverage begins at 3:00 p.m. right here on MSNBC.
And next, more on the insane drama from inside the Senate today and how Dr. Christine Blasey Ford`s testimony is already affecting change.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY, (D) VERMONT: Dr. Ford, no matter what happens with this hearing today, no matter what happens to this nomination, I know and I hear from so many of my own state of Vermont, there are millions of victims and survivors out there who have been inspired by your courage. I am. Bravery is contagious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Everyone who saw Dr. Christine Blasey Ford`s testimony yesterday saw the tremendous courage it took to come forward before that panel under that enormous light in front of all those men. And her bravery has reverberated throughout all of American society. It has been in fact contagious.
During her testimony, people were literally calling into C-SPAN of all places to share their stories of survival. The Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network tweeted today that the number of people helped by the National Sexual Assault Hotline was 201 percent above average yesterday.
In San Francisco, Chicago, and other cities, protesters took to the streets to support Dr. Ford. Protesters were also out in full force at the Supreme Court and on Capitol Hill, including female members of congress who stood silently in protest at this morning`s judiciary committee hearing.
And after Senator Jeff Flake said he would support Kavanaugh this morning, he was confronted by a pair of sexual assault survivors, Maria Gallagher and Anna Maria Archila (ph). Gallagher said she had never told her story before, not even to her own mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re telling all women that they don`t matter, that they should just stay quiet because if they tell you what happened to them, you`re going to ignore them. That`s what happened to me, and that`s what you`re telling all women in America, that they don`t matter. They should just keep it to themselves because if they had told the truth, they`re just going to help that man to power anyway. That`s what you`re telling all of these women. That`s what you`re telling me right now. Look at me when I`m talking to you. You`re telling me that my assault doesn`t matter, that what happened to me doesn`t matter, and that you`re going to let people who do these things into power. That`s what you`re telling me when you vote for him.
Don`t look away from me. Look at me and tell me that it doesn`t matter what happened to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: After that, Flake called for an FBI investigation of the Kavanaugh allegations.
Joining me now for on this remarkable moment, author and columnist Jessica Valenti, New York University associate professor Christine Beltran, and New School professor and senior vice president for social justice, Maya Wiley. That elevator moment was one of the most incredible things I`ve ever seen both in terms of courage, in terms of the moral urgency in the witness, and the fact I think it changed the course of what happened today.
JESSICA VALENTI, COLUMNIST: It did. Every woman I know, I`ve been on text all day, watched that multiple times, cried multiple times. It`s so difficult to watch, but it`s also so powerful, and it did feel really invigorating.
I`m so grateful to them. Every time I watch it, I just feel so grateful to them. But I also feel so upset that women have to continue to lay bare their pain again and again,and it just makes me sort of furious. Like how much trauma do you want from us? How much do we have to bleed until you recognize that this is really bad, that this is really happening, and that we`re human.
I mean, it`s just so distressing.
MAYA WILEY, NEW SCHOOL: Yeah, I know Anna Maria, and I`ve known her for years, and I didn`t know she was a survivor.
WILEY: And I learned about it today on television. And I personally can say that I was extremely concerned yesterday that the outrageous statements of Senate Republicans about how horrible they felt about how Brett Kavanaugh had been treated when he was essentially asked to account for some very serious allegations was absolutely one of those moments where I thought we already know that almost two-thirds of people, men and women, boys and girls who are victims of sexual violence do not tell, do not come forward, that this is exactly what the message was going to be.
So to have them take that action to say no, actually, we`re going to make you accountable, and we`re going say things that we haven`t actually necessarily said before, but in an aggressive way. Not -- we`re not just going to be nice.
HAYES: Look at me when I`m talking to you.
WILEY: Look at me.
HAYES: I got to say, as a civic moment, that`s democracy in a nutshell, like the difference between a free republic and a free society and tyranny is that you can say to a United States senator look at me when I`m talking to you.
CHRISTINE BELTRAN, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Yeah, yeah, it was a powerful moment of democratic action because it`s this moment of saying those of us who you think you can act with impunity on certain people and populations, but we`re here and we`re in the public square.
HAYES: And you have to look me in the face.
BELTRAN: And you have to look me in the eye, and we`re not going away. And I think one of the things you`re seeing with all this organizing is a lot of organizers right now are realizing we are organizing in the shadows of a dying world. We`re organizing in the shadows of a society...
HAYES: That`s real heavy.
BELTRAN: Transitioning into something else. And their rage speaks to the fact that they are outraged that they can`t act with impunity in the ways - - this is a story that actually has a long history from settler violence, Jim Crow. This is a long history of bodies you thought you could act with impunity on and you can`t. And that is -- there is an outrage that is maybe not even understood fully consciously, but it`s deep, it`s deep and it`s historical and organizers are challenging it right now.
HAYES: There is an amazing book coming out on Tuesday by Rebecca Traister, a frequent guest on this show, called "Good Mad," which I would urge everybody to read, which is about sort of women and fury, and particularly in this political moment. And it was -- I mean, everyone talked about this yesterday, but just like the difference in how she was and how he was and male anger and what male anger means. I mean, if she had come into that being like screaming, they would have literally called security, literally. I mean, literally. If she had been like I was sexually assaulted and how dare you Republicans.
WILEY: It`s worse. She would not have been credible.
WILEY: He can come out completely disrespectful, non-judicial, right, looking -- Senator Klobuchar, that exchange was simply nothing short of deeply, deeply sexist and disrespectful in a way that I can`t imagine a sitting judge would have done in public, and yet that behavior became why he was credible.
HAYES: Yes, that`s a great point, like, that that imbued him with authority in that moment. In fact, he was performing the authority. I mean, he was performing for White House.
BELTRAN: And I also kept thinking when I was watching him is like these hearings have broken him. He seems like you think of all the resilience of these women who have experienced trauma and tried to repurpose that trauma into some kind of knowledge or grace.
HAYES: That`s a great point.
BELTRAN: And he is shattered. And I think that`s actually something the senator is willing to think about is this man was broken yesterday. I think he`s not capable of being the kind of judge you could have on -- I mean, I think he is shattered in a way that we`re going to be thinking and talking about for a long time.
VALENTI: Because he didn`t get what he wanted, right? It`s because he had to -- because he is actually having to answer for something.
I mean, it really was just epitomized for me entitled white male rage, right? And backlash. It was like a moment of pure backlash that wasn`t just about this moment in this hearing but was about what`s going on more broadfully in the country right now and men being held to account.
BELTRAN: And that he now lives in a world where a lot of white men and women and populations who have been on the different side of the story also are appalled. They`re disgusted. So even whiteness and masculinity isn`t doing what it used to do because white -- a lot of people are white anti-racists and men who are against toxic masculinity. So, it`s not even doing the work -- whiteness isn`t doing what it used to do, that`s all I`m saying.
HAYES: It was partly -- you know, it felt so connected to sort of the moment, the Trumpian moment, right? Like here is someone who -- and even just sort of constructing this narrative for himself like at one point he says, like, I got into Yale Law with no connections. It`s like you went to the finest prep school in D.C. and your father was a lobbyist and your mother was a judge. It`s like god bless them, I`ve no -- I`m not hating on that, but it`s like you were among the top, top most privileged people in the country.
VALENTI: But also, that makes him incapable of doing violence against women.
VALENTI: It`s like showing some highlights from his CV means that well, I`m a good person. I went to Yale.
HAYES: Or I was an athlete.
BELTRAN: And I know 65 women.
HAYES: Let me just say this. Let me say this. I just want to say this, at some level it`s inescapable who you believe here, right. Because like if you do believe that he is not guilty of what happened, then he is angry about being falsely accused, right? Like there is no way around -- you can`t get around the central question of who you believe, because for those who believe that he is falsely accused, like all of the rage makes sense, right?
WILEY: Or not -- not following -- we are in the privileged position of following all the details of this.
WILEY: Even going back to 2004 and the confirmation hearing in 2004. So those of us following that level of detail say, as Ben Franklin said, half a truth is often a great lie. And he has been more like -- he has had less than half of truth.
So what that means is we see him differently. The public who doesn`t have that level of detail just sees emotion.
HAYES: I will say this, we do not have polling on all this, and not like polling is the most important thing in the world. I am desperately curious about what people believe in the wake of that and how the gender split`s happened and all of that, because I don`t know. I really don`t know. I know how it read to me, but I don`t know.
Jessica Valenti, Christina Beltran and Maya Wiley, thank you all for joining me tonight.
That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END
Copy: Content and programming copyright 2018 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2018 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.