Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: October 3, 2017 Guest: RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, David Chipman, Darius Harper, Dillon Christos
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: -- 225-3121. And that`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us."ALL IN" with Chris Hayes starts right now.
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CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on ALL IN.
JOSEPH LOMBARDO, SHERIFF, CLARK COUNTY, NEVADA: The fact that he had the type of weaponry and the amount of weaponry in that room, it was preplanned.
HAYES: War zone in Las Vegas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A battlefield, that`s exactly what it was.
HAYES: New details on the shooter`s massive arsenal. And the same old excuses to stay out of the gun debate.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: I think it`s premature.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We`ll be talking about gun laws as time goes by.
HAYES: Plus, inside a gun shop the day after the shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the people that think like, why does anyone need these things? Why do you need five of them? What do you say them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you need two cars?
HAYES: Back to Puerto Rico.
TRUMP: On a local level, they have to give us more help.
HAYES: The unbelievable scene during today`s Presidential visit to an American island in crisis.
TRUMP I hate to tell you, Puerto Rico, but you`ve thrown our budget a little out of whack.
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
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HAYES: Good evening from Las Vegas, I`m Chris Hayes. And tonight the nation must once again answer a question. Is now a good time to talk about gun violence in this country? Or are massacres like the one that unfolded right behind me two nights ago, a terrifying, almost endless hailstorm of bullets that left almost 600 people dead or wounded, is that just something we`re all willing to live with? What one survivor called the tragic cost of freedom.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a tragic cost of freedom that people can do bad things. If you can find a gun law that could prevent this from happening, I could sign up today. But I am proud of our country`s second amendment rights and I`m glad we`re allowed to defend ourselves.
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HAYES: We now know the gunman behind this attack, the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history, had built up a vast stockpile of firearms, all of them apparently, as far as we know now, purchased legally. We got our first glimpse of those weapons today. In this new video taken outside Stephen Paddock`s hotel room, through the door you can see what appears to be one of the gunman`s high-powered rifles mounted on a shooting bipod, a device obviously designed to provide more stability for the long-range firing he was planning.
According to an internal law enforcement document seen by NBC News, 23 total firearms were found in that hotel suite at the Mandalay Bay Hotel. Another 19 found at the gunman`s home North of Las Vegas. This man managed to get his hands on 42 guns. At least some of them semi-automatic, plus explosives and thousands of rounds of ammunition. Law enforcement officials say the gunman had two bump stocks, a completely legal device used to modify a semi-automatic rifle to fire rapidly as if it were fully automatic. It is clear from the videos, and particularly the audio from the night of the attack, those bump stocks worked largely as designed. We are talking about weapons of war, which was exactly what it felt like Sunday night, according to an Afghanistan veteran I talked to today who was working security at the music festival.
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HAYES: Did it feel like a war zone to you?
DARIUS HARPER, SECURITY GUARD: Yes, actually did. I was involved in a lethal encounter a few years ago, it was in the line of duty incident. But nothing like this. Nothing like a barrage of gunfire coming in, it got multiple casualties, mass casualties coming in. I can honestly tell you, after everything I`ve been trained and done and been through, I mean, I don`t --I`ve never seen anything like this.
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HAYES: Much more of that interview ahead. The President is due right here in Las Vegas tomorrow to meet with victims and first responders. This morning, he told reporters he`ll eventually get around to talking gun policy.
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TRUMP: Look, we have a tragedy. We`re going to do -- and what happened in Las Vegas is in many ways a miracle. The Police Department has done such an incredible job. And we`ll be talking about gun laws as time goes by.
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HAYES: But in talking points given out to political allies which were obtained by NBC News, the White House argues, "When it comes to gun control let`s be clear, new laws won`t stop a madman committed to harming innocent people, they will curtail the freedoms of law-abiding citizens." There`s about as little appetite for a real gun safety debate among Republican Lawmakers including those who represent Nevada.
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SEN. DEAN HELLER (R), NEVADA: That dialogue does need to occur but I don`t think now is the time for this. You know, we have a lot of victims, we have a lot of survivors.
MCCONNELL: Yes, I think it`s particularly inappropriate to politicize an event like this. It just happened within the last day and a half. It`s entirely premature to be discussing about legislative solutions if any.
REP. MARK AMODEI (R), NEVADA: There`s time in the coming weeks to find those answers and do those sorts of things that we need to do and see what the lessons are learned. But I think right now it`s just that, you know, the humility, thoughts, and prayers to those folks that are affected.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R) LOUISIANA: I`m not for changing the law right now. I am against politicizing this.
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HAYES: According to Senator John Thune, the third-ranking Republican in the Senate, it`s on all of us in the public to learn how to live with the threat of gun violence.
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SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: All of us want to do everything we can to prevent tragedies like that from happening again. You know, it`s an open society. And when somebody does what he wants to do. It`s going to be hard for everything. But I think people have to be -- are going to have to take steps in their own lives to take precautions and protect themselves. And in situations like that, you know, try and stay safe. As somebody said, get small.
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HAYES: Senator Richard Blumenthal is a Democrat from Connecticut, site of the Sandy Hook School shooting almost five years ago. Senator, first I`d like to get your response to your colleague`s advice to "get small," that people should think about their personal actions in how to avoid getting shot.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT: Chris, America is not small. We have big events, we take pride in our sports and entertainment and concerts. And it`s on us to take action to eliminate gun violence. And as for now being premature, our thoughts and prayers certainly go out to the families today and yesterday were absolutely painful in recalling that day in Newtown years ago. I was with a number of the families tonight. But we should honor the victims by action. We should honor the families by stronger measures, to make America safer, and it`s within our power to do so, not think small.
HAYES: I want to present what seems to me the only sort of salvageable core point, and it`s a profound one, of people being very honest about the price of freedom. The idea that in a free society, you do not have a police state, certain risks will happen. You want to have, for instance, open public events where people can go publicly and not have to check everyone`s name or have everybody going through metal detectors all the time. And that essentially, this is a tolerable risk in a free society. What do you say to that?
BLUMENTHAL: We have a death rate from gun violence that is way higher than any other open society among industrial nations. 90-plus people every day die in America as a result of gun violence which is a rate that is astronomically higher than others`. And so we have the power, and I respect the second amendment, but we have the authority under that amendment to take action that would ban, for example, the assault weapons and the bump stocks and the high-capacity magazines that are essential to many of these mass killings. And to impose background checks to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people, close loopholes that will make us safer. We will prevent every death as a result of gun violence, but we can dramatically reduce it. And we should not settle, America should not be a smaller nation because we are reduced by fear and trepidation simply because dangerous people have such free access to guns.
HAYES: You just mentioned the second amendment. And notwithstanding the court`s jurisprudence on this matter, you personally, do you believe the constitution protects the freedom to assemble an arsenal of 42 guns and thousands of rounds of ammo? Is that part of what the Constitution protects?
BLUMENTHAL: In no way does the second amendment prevent the United States Congress from banning assault weapons. They are weapons of war. They were designed to kill and maim human beings, not to hunt or do recreation. And bump stocks simply enable people to evade the law by converting those semiautomatics into automatics and do the kind of carnage that we saw so unspeakably the night before last. And as for the high-capacity magazines, I know no hunter who uses a high-capacity magazine. So the second amendment permits reasonable, commonsense measures. The United States Constitution has said there is a second amendment right. But Americans, 90 percent of all Americans, believe that background checks should be done to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. And in fact, the law right now, and it`s been upheld, forbids certain people to have weapons, like people with felony records. So the second amendment is the law of the land but it is not absolute.
HAYES: When your colleagues talk about politicizing this, when they talk about now being the not right -- now being not the right time, do you think they`re fundamentally being disingenuous or do you think that`s an earnest expression?
BLUMENTHAL: The time for euphemisms and evasion is over. The time for action is now. My heart --
HAYES: That`s not an answer to the question, though.
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I think that the time for action is now and would not involve politicizing this horrific tragedy. You know, the night after the Sandy Hook tragedy, I went to one of the many calling hours that I did for the parents. And I approached one of the moms to express my condolences and to say when you`re ready, we should consider what the next steps are to prevent this kind of tragedy. And she said, and I`ll never forget the tears in her eyes. "I`m ready now." Honoring those victims is not politicizing this tragedy. It is to take action to prevent these tragedies in the future.
HAYES: Senator Richard Blumenthal, I appreciate your time tonight.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
HAYES: David Chipman is a former Special Agent of the ATF who now works for the gun safety group started by former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords and Jason Johnson, Politics Editor for the Root and MSNBC Political Analyst. And David, let me start with you. You saw I think what happens here, which is a sort of argument on principle about one of open society`s willing to tolerate one is trying our constitution, that slides into these technical questions. And those technical questions are a terrain that the NRA is very effective at battling on, even when the commonsense argument for, say, you know, the device that converts a semi to something that could sort of fire automatically doesn`t seem particularly compelling. Do the terms of that debate end up being self-defeating?
DAVID CHIPMAN, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT, ATF: I think so. I think when I talk about gun violence, you know, I rarely actually talk about guns. I talk about the shared belief that as Americans we have to have the courage to figure out reasonable ways to keep guns out of the hands of people who will inflict harm on our nation. This notion that gun laws don`t work, you know -- I just simply reject. I dedicated 25 years of my life on the front lines serving as a federal agent where on a daily basis I was arresting and bringing into courts people I know would have killed someone that night if we hadn`t have acted. Now I`m not naive. I know that there are gaps in these laws and that`s what we talk about, these gaps.
Las Vegas, you know, the first thing that I thought about was, isn`t it interesting that we`ve been fighting against the gun lobby, who doesn`t want gun dealers to tell government when someone buys more than one long gun in a five-day period like they have to report for handguns. It would have been interesting for the government to know that someone had amassed this arsenal. Now perhaps there would have been non-issues of concern but it might be worth the conversation. And I think our law enforcement, we need to trust them to have conversations, to investigate things. If not, really ATF stands for After The Fact. And our law enforcement is just coming in after something horrible has happened. I think our government has a responsibility to keep our citizens safe. And we have to balance that with freedom and responsibility.
HAYES: Jason, one of the things that happen in these discussions, you saw the White House talking points, I`m not sure if you saw them, they invoked Chicago and Baltimore, which is a very common trope. These are places that have very strict gun laws. Obviously, the high rates of gun violence that are largely committed by illegal guns. But there is this thing that happens which is, attention focuses on the gun in instances like this because the sheer horror of this particular event is so astounding. But it`s a mismatch to what the daily horror of gun violence is in communities like Chicago and Baltimore.
JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, right. And remember, the only reason that the Republicans and the Trump administration mentioned Chicago and Baltimore is black people, race, let`s talk about something else other than the issue that`s important. Look, right now is the time that you have to actually talk about functional policy. If you see a car accident, that`s when you should talk about safety belts. If your house burns down, that`s when you should talk about fire alarms. We should be talking about practical ways to prevent this from happening. I don`t think it`s a good idea for us to just throw up or hands in society and say, well, getting shot randomly when you go to a shopping mall or casino is something perfectly reasonable.
And I think, Chris, you brought up a really interesting point when you`re talking to the Senator earlier. Part of the issue is the refusal on the part of some pro -- some advocates for gun control to simply say, the other side is lying. The other side is being disingenuous. The other side is trying to avoid the issue. They want to talk about everything else other than the fact that you have too many people in this country who have dangerous guns and that poses a threat to all of us. And until we can get to that core level of this conversation, we end up spinning in circles in every five to six months hundreds and hundreds of people are negatively affected and many dies.
HAYES: David, I think a lot of people have been looking at the reporting on the individual here who committed this atrocity and saying, God, 52 guns. But it`s actually -- if I`m not mistaken, I think the median number of guns in a gun-owning household is eight at this moment? That`s partly due to the fact that fewer and fewer households are gun-owning households but the households that do own guns own large arsenals. What does -- what does that mean, that 3 percent of American adults own 50 percent of America`s civilian guns?
CHIPMAN: Yes, my experiences is that some Americans really value the right to own guns. They collect them. They even amass them for a whole host of different reasons. And they`re very intense about their beliefs. You know, what I try to strive to talk to people, I mean, I`m a concealed carry owner, I carried a gun for my safety, for 25 years on the job. I think most Americans are in the middle, which is we recognize you know, that as Americans we exercise rights, we may buy guns for a whole host of reasons. But with that comes a responsibility. If you`re going to carry a gun outside your home, you`re going to require training. If you want to buy a gun or sell a gun, perhaps you have to fill out a form or pass a background check. You know, to me a lot of the people who value the right to have a gun seem to not want to exercise the responsibilities that help cops keep people safe.
And so to me, when someone says, hey, it`s inconvenient to fill out a background check or fill out a federal form, or it`s inconvenient to have to answer the questions of cops. Look, I can tell you what inconvenient is. Inconvenient is waking up at 6:00 in the morning, putting on your bullet-proof vest and kicking down a door to get someone who already has a gun and hope you don`t get killed. Inconvenient is what happened to my boss, Gabby Giffords. Inconvenient is what has happened to all the people in Las Vegas. Like -- so, to me, most Americans, I believe are with us in saying, hey, look, there are a whole host of reasonable things that we can do. And I hope we start having the courage to really talk about it.
HAYES: Right. Jason, you agree, Jason?
JOHNSON: Yes, I agree. Look, there are so many restrictions that we think are reasonable in this country. We drive a car, you have to have insurance. If I use my credit card too much over the weekend, it stops and the bank calls me and says, is this really you? Why is it that that I`m able to buy 12 guns and no agency calls and says, hey, are you about to do something dangerous? These are reasonable things that we should expect for our own safety.
HAYES: All right, David Chipman, Jason Johnson, thank you both.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
CHIPMAN: Thank you.
HAYES: Still to come, from a war zone overseas to the American war zone right behind me here in Las Vegas, my interview with the security team working the concert who say Sunday`s shooting was worse than anything they`ve ever seen.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have multiple casualties! GSW to the medical check. Multiple casualties.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be advised it is automatic fire, fully automatic fire from an elevated position, take cover.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: GSW to the chest, legs, severed arteries, (INAUDIBLE) medical check (INAUDIBLE) medical check.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got about 40 to 50 people who are pinned against this wall.
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HAYES: Over the police dispatch, it sounded like what you`d expect in a war zone. Automatic fire from an elevated position. A new video tonight filmed by a woman who took cover in the bleacher shows people risking their lives to administer CPR to victims in front of the stage as shots were still raining down from above. After this break, my conversation with two concert security guards who were treating the wounded on what felt like a battlefield.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re performing CPR on one person and you`re doing compressions and breathing, compressions, breathing, checking for pulse. And then after doing that two or three times -- there`s no pulse. We were having to literally get on up move on to the next person.
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GREG CASSELL, CHIEF, CLARK COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT: Essentially, this was a battlefield. You know, this was something we respond to shootings and car wrecks and things that I know to our time that are tragic events. However this one, the sheer magnitude of the amount of people, how it went down, the elevated gunfire, the massive amounts of gunfire, it was literally a battleground.
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HAYES: Fire Chief of Clark County Greg Cassell was not only one describing the scene in Las Vegas Sunday night as a battleground. First responders, survivors, members of the bands from the outdoor concert in Las Vegas were calling it a war zone. Earlier today, I got a chance to speak with two men who worked security at Sunday`s event. One of whom had served in the Army in Afghanistan, Darius Harper and Dillon Christos who are part of the extraction team at the concert on Sunday. An extraction team is made up of security guards who remove anyone who is intoxicated or unwell or causing trouble. And despite their years and years of experience, nothing prepared them for what they encountered that night.
HARPER: We initially thought it was fireworks. And we thought it was fireworks and you know, I even looked at him, I said, you know, we got pyro? He goes, I don`t know, do we have pyro? Because we were thinking fireworks. So I looked over, just looking there to see if there was anything there, there was nothing there. Then the second burst came in and then we realized it was gunfire.
HAYES: So, in that moment you were thinking, they didn`t tell us about pyro, and you`re looking to see where the light flares are.
DILLON CHRISTOS, SECURITY GUARD: Yes, where the flashes in the sky.
HAYES: And then in that second volley, that`s when it clicks in your head. When you hear that second volley when you realize what`s happening, what did you do?
CHRISTOS: We kind of looked at each other in shock because at that point it sounded as if it was inside the park.
HAYES: So, you thought it might be someone with a weapon there in the venue?
CHRISTOS: Correct. And at that point, we turned and headed into the crowd.
HARPER: We`re just seeing gunshot injury after gunshot. There was a couple of people lying on the ground, unresponsive. And we figured they had been deceased. So at that point in time, we did what we could to you know, get people in the medic tent, do triage as much as we possibly could. There`s still more injuries down by the following gates so we ran down there. I remember having to grab anything we could to perform as a gurney .so we used anything that had wheels on it, trash cans --
HAYES: And injured people -- you`re putting bodies on there?
CHRISTOS: Literally putting them in and wheeling them out, just to get them out.
HARPER: One young lady actually, she came out of nowhere, and she said, I`ve been shot. And she just like, collapsed right on me. And you know, we did what we could (INAUDIBLE) I saw shot through her arm. Gunshot wound to her upper left arm. We treated her and I found myself you know, without medical bandages or anything like that so I was literally taking clothing and what was left around the (INAUDIBLE) performed tourniquet --
HAYES: You used a knife?
HARPER: Yes, I used a knife to cut tourniquets and whatever I could to stop as much bleeding as I possibly could. And after we did that, he literally -- I just stopped, we started stopping vehicles, just throwing people in vehicles, saying get them to the hospital as fast as you can.
CHRISTOS: When you`re performing CPR on one person and you`re doing compressions and breathing, compressions, breathing, checking for pulse and then after doing that two or three times, there`s no pulse. We were having to literally get up and move on to the next person. You know, you come across a woman who -- you don`t even know it`s a woman because there`s a man over her, just sobbing because it`s his wife or his girlfriend. The people, I mean, really, it`s not even -- I mean, the first responders did awesome but the people inside the event, inside the concert, there was so many people that stepped and up just said, hey, what can I do?
HARPER: There were former law enforcement, former veterans, off-duty paramedics, nurses, which did awesome job in the triage area. People just coming together, just amazing to see how you know, people would just say, look what can we do? You know, I mean, offering their own shirts to provide tourniquets, offering you know, to help carry people out. And individuals taking it upon themselves to run right back into the venue.
CHRISTOS: There was a guy who used his own belt as a tourniquet on himself and kept telling, you know, the medics, don`t worry about me and went back in.
HAYES: You`ve served in war, you guys have -- you worked security detail for years. You`ve been through stuff, I imagine. Have you ever been in anything like this?
HARPER: I was involved in a lethal encounter a few years ago. It was in the line of duty incident. But nothing like this. You know, nothing like a barrage of gunfire coming in, you got multiple casualties, mass casualties coming in. I mean, you know, law enforcement, firefighters, ambulance, medics, you all prepare for those mass but I don`t think anyone was really prepared. You know, you train for it, though you `re really prepared, you don`t know you`re really prepared until you see it. And I can honestly tell you, after everything in the training I`ve done and been through, I mean, I don`t -- I`ve never seen anything like this.
CHRISTOS: I`ve been where there have been shootings but you knew the direction they were coming in.
HARPER: Yes, you had an idea.
CHRISTOS: You knew at least the area of where the suspect was. You could tell where the gunfire was coming from.
HAYES: Your son called you?
HARPER: Yes, my son, he`s in Afghanistan right now. He called me the following day just to, you know, check on dad, make sure it was OK.
HAYES: What did he say to you?
HARPER: He says, "Dad, you`re taking more fire over there than I am over here, you know, what`s going on?" He was just happy to hear that I was OK.
HAYES: Ahead, the President`s surreal, baffling visit to Puerto Rico. How he tried to turn it into a personal victory lap. That moment right after this.
HAYES: Donald Trump will be here in Las Vegas tomorrow, but today he visited Puerto Rico to tour the hurricane-ravaged island and meet with residents and local officials who have been begging for help for more than a week. This is what they got at the first event after the president landed.
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TRUMP: Brock Long has been through a lot. Brock has been unbelievable. Your governor has been who I didn`t know. I heard very good things about him. He`s not even from my party and he started right at the beginning appreciating what we did. Right from the beginning, this governor did not play politics. He didn`t play it at all. He was saying it like it was, and he was giving us the highest grades.
So, Congresswoman Jennifer Gonzalez-Colon, who I watched the other day, and she was saying such nice things about all of the people that have worked so hard.
I saw those comments and everybody saw those comments and we really appreciate it.
I also want to thank Linda McMahon, small business. She has done an incredible job. Built a great company with her husband, Vince McMahon. We want to thank you, Linda, very much.
Mick Mulvaney is here, right there. And mick is in charge of a thing called the budget. Now, I hate to tell you, Puerto Rico, but you`ve thrown our budget a little out of whack, because we`ve spent a lot of money on Puerto Rico. And that`s fine. We`ve saved a lot of lives. If you look at the -- every death is a horror, but if you look at a real catastrophe like Katrina, and you look at the tremendous hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people that died -- what is your death count as of this moment? 17?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 16, sir.
TRUMP: 16 people certified. 16 people versus in the thousands. You can be very proud of all of your people, all of our people, working together.
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HAYES: After teasing the Puerto Ricans assembled about how much their disaster was costing the federal government, the president bragged about spending hundreds of millions of dollars on new jets for the air force.
Now, the president was correct about the relatively low number of deaths in Puerto Rico confirmed this afternoon, although tonight that number has now been updated to 34. And as Vox reports, Puerto Rico has been slow to update their death toll and experts expect the number to shoot higher as more information comes in.
Up ahead, Congressman Luis Gutierrez on what is really happening in Puerto Rico, next.
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TRUMP: I think it`s now acknowledged what a great job we`ve done. And people are looking at that. And in Texas and in Florida we get an A-plus. And I`ll tell you what, I think we`ve done just as good in Puerto Rico, and it`s actually a much tougher situation. We need their truck drivers, their drivers have to start driving trucks, we have to do that. So, on a local level they have to give us more help.
I appreciate very much the governor and his comments. He has said, we have done an incredible job, and that`s the truth.
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HAYES: Donald Trump visited Puerto Rico today, which is still struggling after being hit by Hurricane Maria, almost two weeks ago. And after lavishly praising his own administration at a press event, the president visited a relief center. Here he is handing out rolls of paper towels, tossing them into the crowd as if he were shooting a basketball.
The president also handed out flashlights while telling the folks in the room, you don`t need them anymore. The vast majority of American citizens in Puerto Rico do need flashlights, because more than 90 percent of the island remains without power and more than half of households still don`t have clean running water in the United States of America.
New York Times reporting today that because supermarkets can`t access computer systems, food stamps are unusable. Many of those families having to rely on neighbors for food.
But much of that didn`t seem to reach the president today.
NBC`s Hallie Jackson tweeting that, quote, POTUS on Air Force One just now asked about any constructive criticism he heard today. We only heard thank yous from the people of Puerto Rico.
Congressman Luis Gutierrez met with FEMA and local government officials when he was in Puerto Rico this weekend, he joins me now. Congressman, your reaction to the president saying he didn`t get constructive criticism, he just got thank yous. People saying he`s doing a great job?
REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ, (D) ILLINOIS: How sad, how disgraceful, that when people are suffering so greatly, when there is such pain and anguish and fear about what the future presents to millions of American citizens on that island, that he would act with such folly and silliness.
This is very serious. And I think the president of the United States, I hope that on his way back, if he`s already here, maybe tomorrow, go by the Vietnam Memorial and see the hundreds of names of Puerto Ricans that are etched in that wall, who gave up their lives, that didn`t say they had bone spurs, they responded and they gave up the ultimate tax of their life -- Korea, World War II.
Then there was no doubt, they were citizens when they were called to defend the nation. They were citizens, then there was no question, there was no tallying how much is a life worth. They paid the ultimate tax.
And so what an offense to the people of Puerto Rico.
I just want to say, Chris, you know what I saw? I saw people coming together as neighbors, giving the very little that they had so that their neighbor could survive. Cobbling together a unity that I`ve never seen before. I`ve never been prouder of my Puerto Rican heritage or of the people of Puerto Rico.
I only hope that if I were ever to confront that in my city of Chicago, that the same dignity and the same poise would be that that I would see from my neighbors and my fellow Chicagoans. That`s how proud I am of them.
HAYES: What I have heard from people that I`ve been in touch with on the island and from other reports is that there really is this bottleneck problem. And it doesn`t really seem like it`s gotten a whole lot better.
And it`s worrying that there are supplies, there are things that are needed, and getting them out to the people that need them has been the obstacle, the last mile problem.
Have you heard that as well? Is the federal government doing enough to make that happen?
GUTIERREZ: Look, we should have a carrier out there with a couple of hundred helicopters sending in relief.
Chris, what the people have to understand is the topography of Puerto Rico.
You think of Puerto Rico, you think of beaches, you think of ocean.
No. The majority of the island is mountainous. And there are hundreds of thousands of people. The bridges have been washed away and the roads, and they`re trapped.
What we need is to build those temporary bridges, go in there and rescue them, and then put them in a safe place.
I wish, Chris, you and I could just look at the e-mails that I get from my constituents, which I must believe are being replicated.
There was a woman, she buried her 58-year-old brother. He died the day of the hurricane. Three days later, there was no place to put him. She buried him in her backyard.
Another couple finally made to it Puerto Rico because their mother had died. By the time they got there, she was already cremated because they couldn`t keep her any longer.
The death toll is going to increase. This is what the hurricane has taken away, so many precious lives. But guess what, that same hurricane will take away more lives because of the inaction after the terrible fury of that hurricane and the wind and the rain.
And that is what is so regrettable. We cannot stop a natural disaster from occurring like a hurricane. What we can do is be prepared and not start talking about, well, this is going to cost us so much. What`s the life of a human being worth? What`s the life?
It`s priceless. And that is something that I think this president just never is going to understand.
HAYES: All right, Congressman Luis Gutierrez, who was in Puerto Rico over the weekend, thanks for making the time.
GETIERREZ: Thank you.
HAYES: Still to come, with gun stocks up in the wake of the deadly shooting here behind me in Las Vegas, I went to a local gun shop to talk about why people are coming into the store and why they need more than one gun, just ahead.
HAYES: Why do people routinely buy more guns after horrific mass shootings?
I speak about that and other things with the manager of a Las Vegas gun store I spoke to today just after this break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ART NETHERTON, BRIARHAWK FIREARMS & AMMUNITION MANAGER: Everything out there is scary right now. They`re seeing all this chaos. Not necessarily with what the tragedy that just happened, but in general.
I mean, it`s a high crime rate, the news. So, they want something for their own home protection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: After the horrific massacre here in Las Vegas, we once again saw a troubling phenomenon. A jump in gun stocks following the historical pattern we`ve seen after a mass shooting.
Traders appear to be anticipating an increase in gun sales, and with good reason. After the San Bernardino mass shooting, for example, in December 2015, handgun sales spiked 62% according to one gun industry expert.
After that San Bernardino attack, I had visited a local gun shop to find out what was on the mind of the people who sell firearms. And earlier today I did the same here in Las Vegas, stopping into Briarhawk Firearms & Ammunition to speak with store manager Art Netherton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I`ve been in other gun shops, particularly in San Bernardino I was in a gun shop a few days after that attack, and they were getting a lot of calls.
HAYES: He said that when something like that`s on the news, you get people calling who feel upset and scared.
HAYES: Asking about purchasing a weapon.
Has that been your experience?
NETHERTON: We get that on a daily basis here. Today has really not been that much different, other than a few calls. Not much different than our average day, as far as those kinds of calls.
HAYES: You got a call from a guy who said he`d seen on the news that he could just come in and buy a handgun.
NETHERTON: That`s correct, we had a caller who just called in who said he heard on the media that you could just walk in and purchase a gun, over the counter, no background check, no anything.
That`s one of the problems we deal with is the misinformation. We go through rigorous background checks. We call the Department of Public Safety. They run local, state, and federal. And you`ve got to pass the background check. They give us one of three answers. Yes, no, or three-day delay.
HAYES: And that`s for any gun?
NETHERTON: Any gun.
HAYES: The way that guns operate in our country, is like there`s like these two sides, and I think it`s political but it`s also cultural, right? There`s people who walk around who don`t have guns, they don`t understand why other people have guns, they think guns are scary, their interface with guns is they see the nightly news and someone got shot.
Then there`s people that have a lot of guns and it`s part what was their culture is.
What do you want to say to the people on the other side of that? Who think like, why does anyone need these things? Why do you need five of them? What do you say to them?
NETHERTON: Why do you need two cars? Why do you need anything? People are hobbyists. They`re shooters, they`re hobbyists, they get into it as a sport. That`s primarily where -- but you know, usually we -- the knee-jerk reaction is we need to pass another law.
Well, I`m prior -- have prior law enforcement experience. I can tell you, you know, what the philosophy is, I don`t understand it, because, oh, the criminals ignore the first 2 or 300 laws we pass, so this one is going to scare them so bad they`re going to run to the local PD and turn in their weapon?
HAYES: And yet, the other side of this, talking to gun owners, you guys do have a fair amount of regulation, and you fold it into your point of sale.
HAYES: It`s burdensome on one level, but also at this point like the background check is like, that`s just what you do, right?
NETHERTON: It`s what we do, and we keep those paper records, we are required to keep by the ATF for 20 years. We thoroughly co-operate with all federal, state and local regulations. We do what`s right and we do what is right by our conscience.
If we had somebody that may even pass a background check and we still think this just doesn`t feel right, we`re probably going to turn them away.
We had an incident awhile back that one of our people here just eluded to a minute ago, we had a young fellow that came in and he had bandage on his head, he was just beaten up and wanted to buy a gun. And we said no, sorry. Come back in three or four days when you cooled off and maybe we`ll talk to you.
You don`t -- you have to be a psychologist and a good judge of people to actually be behind these counters. You just don`t sell somebody something.
You know, what is your need? What are you going to use it for? Why do you want it? Those are the questions we ask on a daily basis.
HAYES: If I come in and said I never handled a gun in my life.
NETHERTON: What do you want to use it for?
HAYES: What`s the answer for that?
NETHERTON: Typically it`s self-defense. Everything out there is scary right now. They are seeing all this chaos. Not necessarily with what the tragedy that just happened but in general.
High crime rate. The news. So they want something for their own home protection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: My thanks to Art Netherton who was very, very gracious with his time today. Thank you very much for making the time.
Up next, Lawrence O`Donnell joins me to talk about the perverse way in which mass shootings can act essentially as advertisement for guns. Don`t go away. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: We are back live from Las Vegas with our continuing coverage of the horrific mass shooting here that left nearly 600 people dead or wounded.
I`m joined by our own Lawrence O`Donnell, host of MSNBC`s, The Last Word. It`s good to have you here.
There`s a real phenomenon that we`ve seen after mass shootings, not just the stocks going up in anticipation but actual gun sales going up in the wake of that.
LAWERENCE O`DONNELL, THE LAST WORD: It`s a market that can`t learn apparently, because it seems to be a reaction to the idea that oh, well, now they are going to legislate some kind of control that will prevent me from buying that thing that I`m going to the gun store today to buy, and we never do that. We never legislate that control.
So it`s a reaction to something that we have proven won`t happen, and the market including the stock market continues -- the stock market is actually fairly rational because what they are doing is they are rushing to those stocks because they know the demand for the product will go up temporarily, so they rush into them temporary. I think the big movers know that they will move out of those stocks because there is going to be a little bump right now.
But, you know, Conan O`Brien said the other night that when did this become a ritual? And it makes you stop and think about all of the components of the ritual, which include what happens at the gun stores and what happens in the stock market.
HAYES: What you say about regulation, I remember talking to a gun shop owner in Maryland who talked about after Barack Obama was elected, it was just like he never had better business. Those first few months, you know, was like, get them while you can.
But there is also another aspect which I think Art talked about. What is the profile of your first time gun purchaser? So there is people who are like, I grew up around guns. I feel comfortable around them. I want them.
But the person that says, I wake up on a Tuesday, today is the day I need one and it is -- it`s fear, right? It`s this idea that like, when you watch that happen, you think to yourself, well, Jesus, maybe I should --
O`DONNELL: Well then totally, that`s what you pick up, is that that first time gun buyer is in reaction to something like this. Including, by the way, something like this, and it doesn`t mean that the gun buyer thinks, if I had been at the concert and I had a handgun it would have been different. That isn`t it.
It`s that this delivers a message of the scope of danger in the world and it reminds people of other closer dangers. I mean --
HAYES: Talk about chaos. That was so striking to me. The world is on fire. It does feel that way if you cover or watch the news.
O`DONNELL: Yeah. And fear in the immediate aftermath of these things is not -- doesn`t know any real boundaries.
I mean friends of mine here in Las Vegas who kept their kids home from school on Monday and I -- and I didn`t get into the discussion of why because I knew that their reaction at that point was so raw that, even if the news media was saying there is absolutely nothing for anyone to worry about in Las Vegas today, and there wasn`t the slightest hint that there was anything to worry about at the school, I can understand why people would extend that fear into what`s going to happen at school today.
HAYES: And there is also this thing that happens, and we are part of the coverage here, you know, when do you see lots of images of guns? Right?
You see them. You see the object. There is some sort of -- They are well designed, they`re sleek. There is some sort of power they weld.
And it`s like smoking back in the movies, right? It`s like, everyone in the movie is smoking, you know, well, maybe I`ll smoke. That`s part of it, too.
O`DONNELL: Yeah, you can see there is -- for some gun owners, including this guy in the hotel, we don`t know when the slippery slope began for him into the madness. The mental illness spot that he got to with that massive possession of firearms that created this moment.
Those two things had to happen. It wasn`t just that he lost his mind. He had to also be on a slippery slope of losing his mind in the country where there was unlimited access for him to get guns because he was going to pass any background check apparently.
There wouldn`t be anything that would slow him down at any point. And so what -- if we can ever put his life together so that we could watch where this -- where that slope turned bad, was it at the fifth gun? And did that coincide with some negative event in his life and what drove him up to the 40 guns?
HAYES: Yeah. And the motive on this, we should say, at this hour remains, sort of...
O`DONNELL: Well, the motive for me is always the same. It`s a person at that point on that day if not before, completely lost his mind. Whether that drove that person at a young age into an elementary school to kill people, or a movie theater or here, this person was stark raving mad by the time he was looking out the window.
HAYES: Lawrence O`Donnell, thanks for being with me.
Don`t go anywhere because Lawrence will be here right back, exactly one hour to host a live edition of The Last Word.
That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now.
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