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All in with Chris Hayes, Transcript 9/6/17 Hurricane Irma the most powerful thing ever

Guests: Paul Douglas, Matt Miller, Nick Ackerman

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: September 6, 2017

Guest: Paul Douglas, Matt Miller, Nick Ackerman CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: -- gateway where Chicago, Saint Louis, Kansas City and Denver and other cities of war were concourses of a busy, united, exciting America. I can see all of this in my mind. What I cannot see looking all across this great country arising is the politician with the guts to stand up and say this is the America I want to build. That`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us. "ALL IN" with Chris Hayes starts right now.



DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have many, many things that are on the plate.

HAYES: A day after ending DACA, President Trump burns his own party.

TRUMP: Thank you very much Nancy, Chuck, I appreciate it very much.

HAYES: Tonight why Republicans are seething after the President cut a deal with Nancy and Chuck and what it can mean for Dreamers.

TRUMP: Chuck and Nancy would like to see something happen, and so do I.

HAYES: Plus the Washington Post scoop. There was a Russian influence operation by way of targeted Facebook ad. Democrats raise alarms over the new Republican interference in the Russia investigation.

And about that storm.

TRUMP: Not good. Believe me, not good.

HAYES: The size, the scope and the science behind Hurricane Irma.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve never seen a storm be this strong for this long.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. The President of the United States today handed Democrats what a senior Republican aide called a "loaded gun" getting into essentially all of their demands on high stakes legislation undercutting his own party and leaving conservatives fuming beside themselves. The surprising move came one day after the President said he would end the DACA program currently protecting about 800,000 undocumented immigrants brought to this country as children from deportation. And then saying (INAUDIBLE) suggested -- I mean, it might not follow through, much more on that shortly.

But we begin with the day that let head spinning on Capitol Hill around 10:00 o`clock this morning. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer put out a statement saying they supported raising the debt limit for only three short months. Republicans fearing, of course, the political fallout of having to vote to raise the debt ceiling again in December were staunchly opposed to that plan. House Speaker Paul Ryan who repeatedly used the debt limit votes for his own political purposes under President Obama today disproves.


REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE SPEAKER: I think that`s a ridiculous idea. I hope that they don`t mean that. I think it`s ridiculous and disgraceful that they want to play politics with the debt ceiling at this moment when we have fellow citizens in need to respond to these hurricanes so we do not strand them.


HAYES: All right you got that, ridiculous, disgraceful, not happening, absolutely not happening. Ryan and his fellow Congressional Leader then went to the White House to try to meet with President Trump and try and hash out a debt ceiling plan.


TRUMP: Our country has a lot of great assets and we have some liabilities that we have to work out. So, we`ll see if we can do that. I appreciate everybody being here. Thank you very much. Thank you very much Nancy, Chuck, I appreciate it very much.


HAYES: You`ll notice the President thanked the Democrats present by name Nancy, Chuck but not the Republicans, you know, Paul and Mitch. And that would a harbinger of things to come. Behind closed doors, NBC News reports, Ryan and McConnell argued for an 18-month debt limit hike insulating their members from having to vote for it again until after the mid-term elections are over. And then when the Dems balked, Ryan and McConnell came back and suggested six months. But amazingly the President intervened to side with the Democrats, agreeing to the three-month hike they proposed. The same hike Ryan had just called disgraceful. Near the end of the meeting, Ivanka Trump just came by to say hello to the group derailing the conversation and leaving Republicans leaders visibly annoyed.

This picture from inside the Oval Office showing Schumer and Trump looking awfully chummy, a pretty good summation of how it all played out. Congressional Republicans were livid. The President of the United States just handed a loaded gun to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, one senior Republican aide told Politico. Another Senior GOP aide called the move mystifying adding, maybe about the wall, I don`t know. None of it makes any sense. Despite some Senate Republicans immediately coming out against the deal, McConnell (INAUDIBLE) yes, saying he will support the three-month hike and bring it up for a vote. McConnell specifically said Trump reached the deal with House and Senate Democrats. But that`s not how Counselor to the President, Kellyanne Conway described it to NBC News this afternoon.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some Republicans on Capitol Hill say he defied the party by striking a deal with Democrats. How do you respond to that?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, PRESIDENT TRUMP`S COUNSELOR: That is just false. There`s no deal struck with Democrats. This is on -- it`s the deal on behalf of the American people. Donald Trump -- Donald Trump is a constant deal maker.


HAYES: Speaking in North Dakota this afternoon, the President characterized the deal as a success.


TRUMP: We had a great meeting with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and the whole Republican Leadership group. And I`ll tell you what, we walked out of there, Mitch and Paul and everybody, Kevin and we walked out and everybody was happy.

Not too happy because you can never be too happy, but they were happy enough.


HAYES: I`m joined now by someone who is very familiar with the complicated relationships between the White House and Capitol Hill, Jim Manley, 21-year veteran of the U.S. Senate and former Chief Spokesperson for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Jim, I thought of you when I saw this news break as someone who`s been in the room for these deals and been around them, what was your reaction when you heard this?

JIM MANLEY, FORMER CHIEF SPOKESPERSON FOR HARRY REID: Once again I`m here to tell you I can`t believe how poorly equipped this President is to legislate. He is -- I mean, art of the deal, give me a break. This is amongst the worst deals I`ve ever seen in my entire life. That`s what I think. He`s given Democrats two bites at the apple. They get to spend what they want upfront, and then in December, they`re going to come back and exact more out of the next vote. It`s just an incredibly bad deal. And another thing to say, I mean, again, I`m used to Republican Presidents poking it in the eye of the Democratic Senators I work for. And for him to stick it to the Republican Leaders like this, again, it`s just absolutely amazing.

HAYES: Well, let me play devil`s advocate or at least suggest an alteration interpretation. It`s only a bad deal if the President cares about the outcomes but I don`t think he does. I mean, if the outcome he cares about is screwing the people he`s currently angry, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell it is a good deal of that respect from his perspective.

MANLEY: Absolutely correct in throwing them fact that again, it`s a classic move of his to just kick the can down the road. And yes, you can think, you know, at least in his mind that it`s not a bad deal. But the reality is, given the way the political process works on Capitol Hill, he`s just thrown another gut wrench into the process.

HAYES: You know, the other -- the other thing here strikes me. This is -- this President has now bluffed a lot and it`s been called and at this point, you have to understand that he`s just never going to actually do what he says. So, in Phoenix, he said, we`re going to shut down the government and build this wall. Not only has that ship sailed, I mean, he basically just gave away those doors. How do you -- if you`re Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, how does that affect what you do next?

MANLEY: Wait and buy your time very, very carefully. You don`t negotiate against yourself, you wait for this guy to make a move under extreme duress as he struggles to try and get out of whatever problem he`s find himself in. It`s -- again, he`s back to himself into a quarter once again so it`s going to be up to him to make the move, and he`s going to have to make a move at some point.

HAYES: I want to bring in political reporter Sabrina Siddiqui to join the conversation. She`s been covering this for the Guardian and has covered Republicans in Capitol Hill. And Sabrina, I saw a lot of Republicans very upset about this, and think tank statements from the sort of the conservative right and anonymous Hill aides saying nasty things. But in some ways, this is the Republican`s own doing because they can`t hold their caucus together on key votes, right?

SABRINA SIDDIQUI, THE GUARDIAN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, I think the fact of the matter is on this must-pass legislation, not just the debt limit but also in the past, spending bills, continuing resolutions to keep the government running, Republicans have been unable to thwart the opposition they face from those hard right Conservatives who comprise of the House Freedom Caucus. And so they put themselves in this position of having to rely on Democrats in order to advance a debt limit hike or a continuing resolution. I also think, look, it`s very plausible that Trump who has shown no understanding of how Capitol Hill works to not grasp he`s paving the way for Democrats to potentially have leverage on potentially resolving the status of Dreamers, on spending bill and stabilizing insurance markets come December. But I also don`t think that he really much care. He`s looking for something he can chalk up as a victory even if it means defying Republican Leaders in Congress.

HAYES: There`s also -- there`s some reporting that suggestions that the President just got bored with how long the meeting was taking. And -- I`m not -- that`s not -- that was some of the reporting today. It was just -- there were some people in the room that felt like he lost interest and he was like, come on, whatever, three months, let`s do it. But here`s the thing, this only works for the Democrats. People were talking about all this leverage the Democrats have, but that only works if they`re plausible on the bluff too. And everyone knows, they`re going to roll over and vote for the debt ceiling. So I don`t understand what all this talk. And Democrats don`t play hardball on these must-pass votes the way that McConnell and Ryan were able to during the Obama era.

SIDDIQUI: Right. And I think that ultimately Republicans did believe that if they tied an 18-month debt limit hike to Hurricane Harvey relief, emergency relief towards the victims, that it would be -- that would be unlikely that Democrats would actually when push comes to shove opposed that measure. Now the real question is, do Democrats plan to extract serious concessions or are they going to at the end of the day pass another clean debt limit hike and just kick the can on the road further.

HAYES: So that`s key Jim because -- that`s very clarifying, right. So Paul Ryan wakes up this morning, he thinks he has them boxed in, right? And you could see it in that statement. He thinks to himself OK, we got this problem, we`re going to vote for the debt ceiling, we don`t like that. We need Democratic votes. We`re going to attach it to Harvey Relief, and what kind of heartless cruel monsters are going to vote against that. I`ve got them, I`ve got them, walked through the Oval Office, Chuck and Nancy say three months, take it or leave it, the President says yes. Ryan must be beside himself.

MANLEY: Yes, I mean, for myself, I saw that statement this morning and I was trying to figure out whether I should go public and criticize you know, the attempt at a three-month extension. But it turns out the President went for it.

HAYES: Wait, because you thought it was -- you thought it was such a low ball offer that it was -- it was a ridiculous low ball offer?

MANLEY: Well, I don`t know about low ball, but I mean, it just -- I thought it would have been better to kick the can down the road, get the debt limit extension through the next year and clear off the underbrush and try to deal with the other stuff including DACA. Now it`s all back in a one big mess. But you know, kudos to Pelosi and Schumer. They pulled it off, and this President fell for it, hook line and sinker.

HAYES: So then the question, Sabrina, becomes always with this President and we saw it yesterday with DACA. He makes a decision and then he sees something as he watches cable news and he`ll get angry and see that enemy and he`ll think oh, gosh this isn`t playing well. You know, the other question I have is you know, people talking about this at the beginning about pivot and he brought Heidi Heitkamp, Democratic Senator on the State of North Dakota. But I also feel like there`s a chance he gets angry that the coverage is that he got rolled and he tries to (INAUDIBLE) on it tomorrow.

SIDDIQUI: Yes, certainly as is always the case to Trump. He can always change his mind tomorrow. We also don`t know at the end of the day if there`s sufficient votes to actually pass this three-month extension given a lot of the opposition that you`ve already heard from Republicans in the rank and file. But I also want to point out that as far as Democrats are concerned, they`ve branded Trump as politically toxic. They`ve likened him to a fascist. They`ve obviously gone really hard on the fact he aligned himself in some ways with white supremacists in his response to Charlottesville. So they have a very limited band with when it comes to actually working with this President.

HAYES: It`s a great point.

SIDDIQUI: I think that at the end of the day, they have this window of opportunity with this must-pass legislation where they can say well, this is part of broader negotiations. Obviously wanted to do something about DACA recipient and to stabilize the health insurance markets to keep ObamaCare in intact. But beyond that I really do think that they`ve made - - they`ve really staked their ground when it comes to their opposition to Trump and I don`t think that they really want to be associated as working hand in hand with his administration.

HAYES: That`s a great point. That photo through the Oval Office window of Chuck Schumer could be a problem for Chuck Schumer as much as it`s a problem for anyone else. Jim Manley and Sabrina Siddiqui, thank you, both.

SIDDIQUI: Thank you.

HAYES: Today`s deal sets the stage for a huge showdown in December when Congress will have to raise the debt limit again. And here`s the thing. In that showdown, Democrats should have a huge amount of leverage since Republican Leaders will likely need their votes and the GOP is the party empowered with almost certainly take the blame if god forbids, the U.S. defaults on its debts and shuts down the government. That, in turn, can mean the survival of DACA, the Obama administration program protecting nearly 800,000 undocumented brought to the U.S. as children from deportation.

President Trump already appears to be waffling on his plan to end it after sending his Attorney General out yesterday to announce the President was ending DACA in six months` time. Trump tweeted last night, Congress now have six months to legalize DACA, something the Obama administration was unable to do. If they can`t, I will revisit the issue. In light to that tweet, the President was asked while in route to North Dakota today if he was sending mixed signals.


TRUMP: No mixed signals at all. Congress, I really believe, wants to take care of this situation. I really believe it. Even very conservative members of Congress have seen it first-hand. If they don`t, we`re going to see what we`re going to do. But I will tell you I really believe Congress wants to take care of it. We discussed that also today and Chuck and Nancy would like to see something happen, and so do I. And I said if we can get something to happen, we`re going to sign it and we`re going to make it and we`re going to make a lot of happy people.


HAYES: I`m joined by Democratic Congressman Luis Gutierrez of Illinois who released a blistering statement over the White House decision on DACA including calling Chief of Staff General John Kelly "a hypocrite who`s a disgrace to the uniform he used to wear. What is your reaction to the last 24 hours from the President`s tweet to the negotiations in the White House that opened the possibility of Democrats being able to sort of jam Republicans with some sort of must pass legislation that legislatively protects DACA recipients?

REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: Well, Chris, first of all, the Democratic Caucus is not in sync with making this agreement with the President of the United States of America. I`ve spoken to dozens of members of the Democratic Caucus. And let me just say this, Chris. You know we fought hard and tenaciously to put 800,000 Dreamers in a very safe place.I T was the one victory the Democrats were able to accomplish and we did it by taking on our own President of the United States with no help from the Republicans. So tonight there are hundreds of thousands of Dreamers that are not over joyed, that not happy because they have not seen a Democratic Party who could have used their leverage today to have said there is no vote on the debt ceiling, there is no vote on the C.R. unless we carry with it 800,000 Dreamers and put them in safe place.

HAYES: So you --- by the way, I want to show that there`s a protest tonight in a Trump Hotel in Washington, D.C. in which DACA recipients, their supporters, organizers are protesting in the lobby of that hotel. Take a listen to what that sounds like.


CROWD: No justice no peace. No justice, no peace.


CROWD: No justice, no peace. No justice no peace.



HAYES: So this is interesting to me, Congressman. I want to make sure I`m tracking this. The sort of message from leadership today was we kicked their butts, we rolled them, we`re going to have all the leverage in December and we`ll work out something for the DACA recipients in the next three months. And what you`re saying is no, you gave away your leverage now, to make the demand now the day after the President ended this program. Why do you not trust that something will develop in the next three months?

GUTIERREZ: Who can trust Donald Trump? Nobody can trust Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a serial liar. Not because I say so because it`s been proven to be a fact. You can`t sit down and negotiate with Donald Trump. He says one thing one day and another thing another day. Today was the day in principle -- remember the Democratic Party has to stand for something. When the CEO of Microsoft says you got to come through him to get to the Dreamers, and he`s to the left of the Democratic Party, it`s a sad day for the Democratic Party in this nation when the CEO of a multinational corporation is standing firmer with the Dreamers than our own Democratic Caucus.

HAYES: So here`s what I want to get from you. There`s these two theories of Donald Trump on DACA. One is that he was basically jammed into this by Sessions and say he wouldn`t defend the executive order in court and that he essentially did this in this kind of halfway so that he could -- he really doesn`t want to it but he`s doing it by himself. And the other is that take him at his word. He`s ending DACA because he promised to end DACA and his base wants to see those people deported. You clearly are of the latter party. I mean, you think this is a thing he wants to do and has to be fought on it or he`s not going to relent.

GUTIERREZ: You know, Chris, I wish you could spend more time with me on the Judiciary Committee where I sit. If there`s one glue, if there`s one thing that keeps the Republican Party together is their xenophobia and their anti-immigrant (INAUDIBLE). I have seen it. Remember we passed DACA -- I mean, we passed the DREAM Act in the House of Representatives in 2010 with literally five Republicans voting for it. And the five Republicans that were voting for it were five Republicans that were not coming back to the House of Representatives. And then we went to Senate, and when we get to the Senate, 55 Senators for closure. Who leads the charge to stop the vote from happening, none other than Jeff Sessions. And we`re supposed to believe the man who stopped the DREAM Act from passing in the Senate and finding its way to desk of President Barack Obama, is now telling us yesterday oh, by the way, we`re now looking for a legislative solution. What height of hypocrisy -- I mean, what do you take us for? I just cannot believe.

Look, everybody says -- so this is Paul Ryan on the one hand, I feel so sorry. I`m so in love with those Dreamers, I wish I could do something for them. Oh, they have all my sympathy. And what do the Democrats respond with? Oh, we feel so sorry, we`re so sympathetic with them. We`re in solidarity. Damn it, it`s about somebody do something about it and pay some political capital. And I`m going to say this. Look, the debt ceiling has to be on the table, the C.R. has to be on the table and Republicans because we got to break the glue that keeps them together or we`ll never free the Dreamers or have an immigration policy that`s fair and just.

HAYES: Well, this is a really fascinating perspective. And I think it`s important for people to hear this, and I`m really curious to see how this is going to play out because there is now this window. It looks like they`ll have the votes for this. But everything you`re saying is going be operable. Congressman Luis Gutierrez, thanks for making time tonight.

GUTIERREZ: Thank you.

HAYES: Still to come, new charges that Republicans are trying to undermine the Mueller investigation, and an old Trump ally on the Hill is back at the center of the controversy. That story in two minutes.


HAYES: Devin Nunes is back. When last we saw, the Congressman back in April, the California Republican who Chairs the House Intelligence Committee was forced to remove himself from the Russia investigation after it was revealed he had been colluding with the White House in an occasionally farcical attempt to launder information that reportedly bolstered the President`s claim of having been wiretapped by his predecessor Barack Obama. Now at the time, that claim was wildly thought to be false, and now we have proof. President Trump`s own Justice Department concluding that there`s no evidence the former president wiretapped Trump Tower. But Devin Nunes is not done. Last night, we reported that the House Intelligence had subpoenaed the FBI and the Justice Department for all documents related to the infamous dossier containing unverified claims about the President`s relationship to Russia, subpoenas that according to the leading Democrat in the Committee were intended to discredit the dossier`s author.


REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: I think it`s part of an effort to discredit the author of the dossier and I think there`s a view if they can discredit Christopher Steele, they can discredit the whole Russia investigation for the whole Russia involvement of our election. It make little sense to the subpoenaing the Department when we haven`t voluntarily asked for the records. It`s also concerning when there`s an apparent double standard between what we are willing to subpoena in the case of the Department and what we`re not willing to subpoena in the case of the White House.


HAYES: Now, despite having withdrawn from the Russia investigation, Nunes is inserting himself into this latest dispute following up on the subpoenas with a letter to the Attorney General and the FBI Director dated September 1st but just made public. And in this letter which is signed by Nunes alone, he threatens to hold the Attorney General and the FBI Director in contempt of Congress. Congressman Joaquin Castro is a Democratic Member of the House Intelligence Committee who called for Nunes to recuse himself from the Russia investigation on this program back in March. Congressman, what is your response to your colleague`s letter?

REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D) TEXAS: Well, first I agree with Adam Schiff that this is a real break in what we believe was agreed upon protocol which is when we wanted to get information, we would ask for voluntary submission or request for production. If the party was not cooperative at that point, then we would consider a subpoena. And so all of us I think were surprised that Devin Nunes and the Republicans went straight for subpoenas on this dossier. And I do think that it`s their attempt to undermine the entire investigation. Unfortunately for them, I think there`s a good chance that it could backfire. And they`re also antagonizing the Department of Justice and the FBI.

HAYES: Why do you think it could backfire?

CASTRO: Well, you know, because -- you know, there`s obviously only so much I could say, Chris, because a lot of it is classified. You know, they may have a hard time achieving their goal of disproving what they`re trying to disprove.

HAYES: You mean the dossier?

CASTRO: Right.

HAYES: Why are they so obsessed with the dossier?

CASTRO: That`s a great question. I don`t know. It`s hard to say that. This kind of came out of nowhere. Again, we were hardly consulted on it, and we certainly didn`t agree to it. you know, perhaps they see it as the most salacious part if they think if they can make it that center piece of this entire investigation, then it looks like something frivolous perhaps but again, I think there`s a good chance it will backfire on them.

HAYES: I was under the impression that the Chair, Chairman Nunes had sort of recused himself -- I don`t know if there`s sort of the official term for what he did but he was stepping back from the -- from the inquiry. This seems to me a violation of whatever he had agreed to do. Do you read it as such?

CASTRO: I do. And all of us, I think members of Congress and the American public had understood Devin`s position to be one of refusal, complete recusal. And over the last few months, he has slowly gotten back into the Russia investigation. Now, ultimately it`s Speaker Ryan`s decision about what role the Chairman has in this investigation. And so really I put the final, you know, decision or blame, however, you want to call it, with Paul Ryan in allowing this to go on.

HAYES: There was a statement from the Senate Chair, Richard Burr, where he compared what they`re doing over there to nothing like I has been done since Watergate. And I wonder, do you feel confident in your own Committee on the House side?

CASTRO: Yes. I mean, the investigation under the new Chairman for the investigative part of this, the Russia part of this, Conway, had been coming along fairly well. We`ve been scheduling witnesses, interviewing them, receiving many documents and production. So, many of us felt like it was moving along fairly well, but every once in a while, you see a curve ball like this come along that`s a real distraction to the investigation.

HAYES: Since I have you here Congressman, I know that the issue of DACA is very close to your heart. I believe your mother was an immigrant from Mexico.

CASTRO: My grandmother.

HAYES: Grandmother, sorry. You talk about that story, and I know that you feel strongly about DACA. And I want you respond to Congressman Gutierrez who basically accused Democratic Party leadership of selling out DACA recipients with this deal today. Do you agree with him?

CASTRO: First of all, Luis has been a very passionate champion of DACA recipients and Dreamers for a very long time. And I think all of us are on the same page that ultimately we want a clean bill that is the DREAM Act, that is supportive of these young people and allows them to stay. What you`re going to see in the next few days really among Democrats -- and what you`ve seen is folks trying to hash out a strategy. So of course at times there`s going to be disagreements on how to proceed. But I think ultimately everybody understands that we`re on the same page, and we want the same thing for these young people.

HAYES: All right, Congressman Joaquin Castro thank you for joining me.

CASTRO: Thank you.

HAYES: Still to come, Donald Trump Jr. faces his first formal questioning over his contact with Russians during the campaign. Matt Miller and Nick Akerman on what the son of the President is facing ahead.



TRUMP: Should I bring Ivanka up? Sometimes they`ll say, you know, he can`t be that bad a guy. Look at Ivanka. Come on up, honey. She`s so good. She wanted to make the trip. She said dad, can I go with you. She actually said daddy, can I go with you. I like that. Daddy, can I go with you? I said, yes you can.

HAYES: That was an aside during President Trump`s remarks in North Dakota today. The speech he was there for is meant to promote the White House tax plan, which is a little awkward since, after seven months, the White House still hasn`t released the most basic details of its tax plan. But the President made a promise about that today using a very familiar unit of measurement. A thing one, one thing two montage is ahead.


HAYES: That is what it sounded like when the strongest storm ever recorded in the Atlantic Ocean roared onto the island of St. Maarten earlier today.

Hurricane Irma made landfall as a category 5 causing massive damage with sustained winds of 185 miles per hour. At least three people were killed in the Caribbean. Right now, the storm is passing close to Puerto Rico, causing heavy rains and floods. It`s projected to pass over the Bahamas and could hit Florida this weekend, prompting mandatory evacuations in low lying areas.

Hurricane Irma is so massive, its power has even astonished scientists who are used to watching these sorts of things, as Taylor Trogden (ph) of the National Hurricane Center put it, I am at a complete and utter loss for words looking at Irma`s appearance on Satellite imagery.

And Hurricane Irma is not alone. Hurricane Jose is coming up right behind Irma, and Hurricane Katia is churning in the Gulf of Mexico right there on the left of your screen.

Meteorologist Paul Douglas is here to explain why Hurricane Irma is so enormous and what we can expect.

Paul, they say that this is the largest one ever recorded in the Atlantic. Is it just essentially luck of the draw? Why has this gotten so big and so ferocious?


The water temperatures in the Atlantic are a few degrees warmer than average. Upper level winds are light. All the ingredients converging to turn this into a true super storm. There is no such thing as a category 6. If there was, this could arguably be considered a category 6 hurricane. Sustained winds are still 185. And the winds have been above 180 for 33 hours now. That`s a record in the Atlantic. The previous record was Allan, which hit back in 1980, 18 hours above 180 miles per hour.

So, if you look -- you can`t just take a snapshot. You have to integrate over time. And if you look at the size and the intensity and the persistence -- I mean folks in Florida and even coastal Georgia and the Carolinas need to take this very seriously. This is shaping up to be the most expensive year, possibly the deadliest year for hurricanes since 2005. That`s the year that Katrina hit and Rita hit and Wilma hit.

The drought is over with a vengeance.

HAYES: You know, the Harvey hurricane, it wasn`t the winds, of course, that were so destructive there. And in fact it hit with wind speeds considerably lower. But it sort of hung around and hugged the Gulf Coast there in Houston and dumped a ton of water. Here, we`re looking at -- I mean, those islands that have just been through this. And the earlier reports we`re getting is that when 185 mile per hour winds hit anywhere, that`s going to do an unbelievable amount of damage, right?

DOUGLAS: Absolutely. Chris, this is roughly equivalent to an EF4, even EF5 tornado, one that`s 40 miles wide. That`s what`s coming through.

The winds around the eye, what we call the eye wall, that doughnut that`s right adjacent to the column eye, that is what causes the damage. And, you know, unless you`re living in a home or some sort of a building that is concrete and steel reinforced, stone brick, you know, traditional wood framed homes just can`t hold up to those kinds of winds.

With Harvey, you`re right, it was the rain. A year`s worth of rain in four days. Harvey stalled for five days, something I haven`t seen.

I didn`t think it could get worse than Harvey. I was wrong. Irma is almost an order of magnitude of dangerous, not because of the rain. This thing is going to keep on moving. It`s not going to stall. But the storm surge and the wind damage -- and it`s forecast to go right up the east coast.

Miami floods now on a clear day, no storm required, because the water has risen and land subsidence -- Miami is a sitting duck.

HAYES: So, you and I have talked about this before. So, there`s a lot of argument in the literature about climate modeling, climate change and hurricanes. But what we do now is water is that the water is on average warmer and that produces more energy, and the big thing we know is sea levels are higher and a place like Miami, elaborate on that a little bit. Why is Miami so exposed at this particular moment given what`s going on with the climate and this hurricane.

DOUGLAS: First of all, you can`t build a wall around Miami. You can around Manhattan, but the fact that you have limestone, porous rock, the water literally comes underneath.

And so because you don`t have any significant elevation, there is no higher terrain in the Miami area, and so, you know, we`re really setting ourselves up for a major disaster.

People think, all right Andrew came through in `92. That was a category 5, we survived that. We rebuilt. It wasn`t a big deal for downtown Miami and Miami Beach, but Andrew was a puny storm compared to Irma, and the center of the storm tracked well south of downtown Miami and Miami Beach.

We`ll see where the core of this storm goes. It may be like Matthew which staged just offshore last year. If that happens we`ll dodge a bullet. If the eye of the storm tracks right over Miami or just to the west of Miami or Fort Lauderdale, then we`ll have a worst-case scenario. The full force and fury of that storm surge, 10, 12, 14 feet of water, and to keep its gain. It could be a real mess and people need to take a very seriously and get out of dodge with days to spare.

HAYES: Fingers crossed it does not track in that direction, and fingers crossed for everyone who is already experiencing that storm in it`s path.

Paul Douglas, thanks for joining me.

DOUGLAS: You bet.

HAYES: There`s a chance that during the election you saw political ads on Facebook bought and paid for by a Russian backed entity. New reporting on that coming up.

And, tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two starts in the not to distant future.


HAYES: Thing One tonight, you`ll remember Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin confirmed last week the White House would outsource its tax plan to congress, saying the administration would stay engaged as congress actually writes the plan.

That`s after the White House promised for at least six months it was writing its own tax plan that was coming along really well.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: So we`re doing a massive tax plan, it`s coming along really well. it`ll be submitted in the not too distinct future.

STEVEN MNUCHIN, TREASURY SECRETARY: We want to get this done by the August recess.

TRUMPS: We`re introducing a tax plan.

Before we do the tax which is actually very well finalized.

Our tax reform and tax plan is coming along very well. It`ll be out very soon.

The tax cut is going to be major. It`s going to be simple.

One of the largest tax cuts in history.

And the whole tax plan is wonderful.


HAYES: Today in a tax reform stump speech in North Dakota, the president gave a new deadline on his quote, "wonderful tax plan".


TRUMP: We`re going to get into great detail over the next two weeks, but we`re working on it with congress now and coming up with very exacting numbers.


HAYES: Over the next two weeks, where have we heard that before? That`s Thing Two in 60 seconds.



TRUMP: We`re going to get into great detail over the next two weeks, but we`re working on it with congress now and coming up with very exacting numbers.


HAYES: Exacting. So today the president promised details on his tax plan in the quote, "next two weeks", one of his favorite units of time.


TRUMP: We`re going to be announcing something, I would say over the next two or three weeks that will be phenomenal.

We`ll be reporting back sometime over the next two weeks as to NAFTA and what we`re going to be doing about it.

I`ll be making a big decision on the Paris Accord over the next two weeks.

And the minds are starting to open up. We`re having a big opening in two weeks.

We`ll be having a big conference in the about two weeks to let everyone know how well we`re doing. Tremendous progress has been made.

We`re going to have a news conference in two weeks on that fight.

Wiretap covers a lot of different things. I think you`re going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks. (END VIDEO CLIP)


HAYES: There`s been a lot of talk and coverage of Russian influence during the presidential campaign other than hacking DNC e-mails and the John Podesta e-mail inbox. But, it`s often been quite murky and very hard to pin down any concrete sense.

But today we got actual data from people in a position to know. Officials at Facebook that a Russian entity was in fact buying issue ads during the 2016 campaign.

Facebook officials reported that they traced the add sales, totaling just $100,000 to a Russian troll farm with a history of pushing pro-Kremlin propaganda. Continuing to quote here, most of the ads focus on pumping political divisive issues such as gun rights and immigration fears as well as gay rights and racial discrimination. a

It`s not a lot of money, but it also feels like it could be just the beginning of what we`ll ultimately learn about this effort. The report that a Russian firm was able to target political messages id likely to fuel pointed questions from investigators about whether the Russians received guidance from people in the United States.

Meanwhile, for the first time ever the president`s very own son, Donald Trump, Jr., will meet with the Senate Judiciary Committee tomorrow.

That`s next.


HAYES: For the first time since it was revealed that Donald Trump Jr. and other Trump campaign officials attended a June 2016 meeting with a Russian lawyer, promising dirt on Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. will meet with the Senate Judiciary Committee tomorrow.

The meeting is officially with staff of the judiciary committee, though several senators plan to intend to ask direct questions according to the Washington Post.

Senator Christopher Coons said the interview will be a good opportunity to better understand what was going on in that meeting and to better understand what was the thinking of core members of the president`s team.

That June 9th, 2016 meeting included Don Jr., campaign manager Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner and the Russian lawyer as well as the meeting`s broker, publicist Rob Goldstone, who had promised incriminating information on Clinton via the Russian government. Quoting his email to Don Jr., "Part of Russia and its government`s support for Mr. Trump."

To which, Don Jr. replied, "If it`s what you say, I love it, especially later in the summer."

Matt Miller is the former chief spokesman for the Justice Department and MSNBC Justice and Security Analyst. Nick Akerman, a former Watergate prosecutor, they both join me now.

Let me ask you from the sort of attorney standpoint, what is Don Jr. walking into tomorrow?

NICK AKERMAN, FMR WATERGATE PROSECUTER: He is walking into a category 5 hurricane. There are so many things swirling around him.

First he`s got this false story that his father devised for him to give to the public about the fact that he just thought this meeting was about adoption of Russian children, and that nothing happened about it. Without responding at all to the notion that he was supposed to get documents incriminating Hillary Clinton.

HAYES: Right.

AKERMAN: And on top of all that, you`ve got this dossier that`s out there that just keeps getting more and more credible, because that dossier talks about, in fact, the Russian government supporting the Trump campaign.

It talks about Dmitry Peskov, who is the person that Micheal Cohan now we know went to to talk about during the campaign to build another Trump Tower in Moscow.

You`ve got all of these facts that keep swirling up, swirling around, just like a hurricane, that are really going to impact Donald Jr. in a big way because ultimately he`s going to have to give this story under oath.

HAYES: Right. So, right now Matt he`s not giving it under oath tomorrow. It will be one of those long staff questioning sessions.

How much leeway does that give him?

MATT MILLER, FMR CHIEF SPOKESPERSON JUSTICE DEPARTMENT: It doesn`t give him any. It`s not technically under oath, but the penalties of perjury are the same.

If you lie to congressional investigators in an interview it is the same penalty, charged as the same statue as lying to an FBI agent.

And it`s an important point because one of the things that Don Jr. has inherited from his father is a lack of faithfulness to the truth. You see it all the time in his public statements. He won`t get away with that if he goes into his interview tomorrow and doesn`t tell the truth.

One of the problems he has is this is not the only time he`s going to be forced to testify. Dianne Feinstein said today they`re going to ask him to come back to a public hearing, and you have to think that Bob Mueller is going to call on him before the grand jury because that meeting in June is such an important fact to get all the information about.

The final thing I`ll say is, the really big challenge for him is he is not the only person who attended that meeting, he is not the only account that investigators will have access to. In fact, we know Rinat Akhmetshin, the Russian-American lobbyist has already been to the grand jury and testified for several hours and he`s obviously someone with no apparent interests of the president to protect.

HAYES: That`s a great point. So, you`re not just spinning about a story about what you were doing alone in your car. You`ve got people that they can cross-reference.

There`s two loose threads out of that meeting that I think of the most. One is the e-mail chain suggests the possibility, strongly suggests that Don Jr. gets on the phone with Emin Agalarov, the pop singer, son of the real estate developer, the person that Rob Goldstone represents, gets on the phone to have a broader conversation about what exactly is going on with all of this, and if that`s true, I want to know what they talked about.

AKERMAN: Right, and that`s not in the e-mails. If you look at the e-mail chains, there`s this big gap where you just don`t know what they talked about.

HAYES: Right. They coordinated back and forth to say, I`ll have him call you. Oh, he`s on stage right now. And then it`s, okay, thank you for setting that up. Okay, well.

AKERMAN: But, that takes you back to the dossier that talks about all of this information that the Russians have been gathering on Hillary Clinton. It just dovetails.

HAYES: Right. So that dossier, again, which we talked about congressman Castro, which the Republicans are obsessed with, they view it as manifestly ridiculous. It has been denied by many of the parties involved. It is unconfirmed. I have to say all that because it`s true, but also to caution folks that have read it that it`s not some description of reality, as far as we know.

That said, there are lots of things that were suggested there that have subsequent events made look more credible.

AKERMAN: And made look true. They just dovetail perfectly. The story, the June 4th e-mail talks about the fact that the Russians are supporting the Trump campaign. The dossier says the exact same thing.

HAYES: And the second big loose thread, Matt, that I`m really obsessed with, this is the thing I think of the most is, what happened after the meeting. Even if you take their story at face value, this meeting got set up, eight people go in there, the president`s son, his son-in-law, the campaign chair, and told to be a total bust where they prattled on about adoption.

And then, what? No one sent an e-mail? No one called the president? That to me is the biggest unanswered question about that meeting.

MILLER: I think there are two big unanswered questions really to follow up.

One is did Natalia Veselnitskaya, this Russian lawyer, leave a document behind. Veselnitskaya has said publicly that she did. That obviously will be a big question. If she left a document, what did that document say and what did Don Jr. do with it.

Then the other big question is, what did he talk to his father about. Did he tell his father, did the eventual President of the United States know about this meeting either in advance or did he know about it afterwards, what kind of information did he have about what they discussed. That is a huge question.

HAYES: The reason that`s so huge, Nick, is that`s where you get the intersection on what happened on the collusion front, or the possibility of it, and the obstruction question, right? Because Mueller seems to be focused on, according to reporting, president`s role in writing that wildly misleading statement by his son about the meeting.

AKERMAN: Yeah. And then on top of it all you`ve got the whole question about the e-mails that were hacked out of Hillary Clinton`s campaign. What happened to those? It`s no coincidence that two weeks after that meeting, these e-mails start turning up on the internet.

HAYES: The DNC e-mails.

AKERMAN: The DNC e-mails, right. Were those e-mails that were turned over at that June 9th meeting? We don`t know.

HAYES: Okay. But that would be a huge -- I mean, that would be amazingly smoking gun and somewhat strange thing to do to give them a thumb drive --

AKERMAN: I don`t think it would be strange at all.

HAYES: But that is not established by the facts so far.

AKERMAN: No, but if you look at the events that occur afterwards, it certainly suggests that`s what happened. If you look at the events that occurred before, it suggests what happened.

HAYES: We should also say that he says, I would love it if it`s later in the summer, which is exactly what happened.

Matt Miller and Nick Akerman, thank you both for joining me.

That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now.

Good evening, Rachel.


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