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All in with Chris Hayes, Transcript 2/6/2017

Guests: Ted Lieu; April Ryan; Barry McCaffrey, Matt MacKowiak, Maria Hinojosa

Show: All in with Chris Hayes Date: February 6, 2017 Guest: Ted Lieu; April Ryan; Barry McCaffrey, Matt MacKowiak, Maria Hinojosa 

JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- in a last-ditch effort.


REID: Attack mode.

TRUMP: The very, very dishonest press doesn`t want to report it.

REID: President Trump blames the press, the polls and now the judicial branch in a last-ditch effort to save his Muslim ban.

TRUMP: They have their reasons and you understand that.

REID: Tonight, where the legal showdown stands. And inside reporting on chaos at the White House. Then,

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Putin`s a killer.

TRUMP: A lot of killers. We`ve got a lot of killers. Why, you think our country is so innocent?

REID: General Barry McCaffrey on Donald Trump`s defense of Vladimir Putin.

BARRY MCCAFFREY, UNITED STATES ARMY FORMER OFFICER: One can argue that`s the most anti-American statement ever made by the President of the United States.

REID: And about those ads.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do I tell my daughter?

REID: How celebrating American values in Super Bowl commercials had somehow turned into an insult to the President.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t look like you`re from around here.

REID: When ALL IN starts now.

Good evening from New York. I`m Joy Reid in for Chris Hayes. At this hour, the signature effort of Donald Trump`s young Presidency, his executive order temporarily banning refugees and citizens of seven Muslim majority countries from traveling to the U.S. is hanging in the balance. Just a short time ago, the Trump administration filed a brief with the federal appeals court in an effort to get the travel ban created by that executive order reinstated. It`s an order that a federal judge in Washington put on hold. The court is now set to hear oral arguments tomorrow and we`re closely monitoring developments. Meanwhile, the President is lashing out at the quote "so-called judge" who ruled against the ban along with the entire judicial system and he isn`t stopping there, claiming an appearance today at MacDill Air Force base in front of a military audience that the press simply won`t report on terrorist attacks.


TRUMP: It`s gotten to a point where it`s not even being reported and in many cases, the very, very dishonest press doesn`t want to report it. They have their reasons and you understand that.


REID: And we don`t know exactly what attack Trump thinks that the press has ignored. Press Secretary Sean Spicer said today, The White house plans to provide a list, quote, "later". But it`s possible he`s referring to the so-called "Bowling Green massacre" which the media did not report on because, well, no such massacre ever happened. To be clear, in 2013, two Iraqi refugees living in Bowling Green, Kentucky, were sentenced on federal terrorism charges after admitting that they had previously used explosives against U.S. soldiers in Iraq. And that they`ve attempted to send weapons and money to Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

But they were not accused of being part of or planning any attack on U.S. soil. There simply was no massacre in Bowling Green. Counselor to the President, Kellyanne Conway, raised the specter of a so-called "Bowling Green massacre" in a Thursday interview right here on MSNBC with our own Chris Matthews. Then, when the (INAUDIBLE) ridicule poured in, she claimed that she misspoke. But we now know that she had used the phrase before. Last Sunday, Conway brought up, quote, "The masterminds behind the "Bowling Green massacre" in an interview with Cosmopolitan Magazine." And on the same day, she incorrectly described what she called the "Bowling Green attack" in an interview with entertainment site TMZ.


KELLYANNE CONWAY, PRESIDENT`S COUNSELOR: There were two Iraqis who came here, got radicalized, joined ISIS and then were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green attack on our brave soldiers.


REID: Meanwhile, Spicer claimed today that the protest against Trump`s executive order were chose organically across the country almost immediately after the ban was announced, or not organic at all.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you sense that there`s an organized pushback and people are being paid to protest?

SPICER: Oh, absolutely. I mean, protesting has become a profession now. They have every right to do that, don`t get me wrong. But I think that we need to call it what it is. It`s not these organic uprising that we`ve seen through the last several decades, and you know, the Tea Party was a very organic movement. This has become a very paid AstroTurf-type movement.


REID: Quite a leading question there. There`s no evidence to support that claim, of course, but a lack of evidence doesn`t seem too much matter to the Trump administration. Vice President Mike Pence today said it would be his honor to lead an investigation into widespread voter fraud which the President claims kept him from winning the popular vote, but which is not an actual thing that happened in the real world. President Trump is also claiming that polls that showed disapproval for him or his agenda simply aren`t true. Shortly after CNN discussed a poll finding that most Americans oppose the travel ban, Trump tweeted "any negative polls are just fake news, just like with CNN, ABC, NBC polls in the election. Sorry, people want border security extreme vetting."

And the - and the growing perception that Trump`s chief strategist Bannon - is - Steve Bannon is the one who`s really running the show in the White House. Well, that seems to be getting under Donald Trump`s skin. After The New York Times reported that Trump was not fully briefed on the details of the executive order that he signed giving Bannon, the chief strategist, a seat on the National Security Council. And Saturday Night Live showed Bannon in the form of the grim reaper taking the main desk while Trump sits down at a kiddie desk in the Oval Office.

Our own Joe Scarborough suggested this morning that perhaps Bannon is the one who`s, quote, "Calling all the shots in the White House". And less than an hour later, Trump tweeted, "I call my own shots. Largely based on an accumulation of data and everyone knows it. Some fake news media in order to marginalize lies." Joining me now is Democratic Representative Ted Lieu of California who serves on the House of Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman Lieu, thank you for being here. What do you make of this tendency of Donald Trump to say that any information that strikes him as negative toward him is just not real and just counting it as lies?

TED LIEU, UNITED STATES CONGRESSMAN FROM CALIFORNIA: Thank you Joy, for that question. Let me say that we have a problem here in America. Our President lies pathologically. He has a staff lie pathologically and then he attacks the free press, he attacks the judiciary, and this is what starts authoritarianism. Donald Trump is a danger to republic and we need to wake up America to understand the harms that he`s causing our country.

REID: Well, you have even gone so far as to tweet and to suggest that Donald Trump needs a mental health evaluation. On Saturday you tweeted, "Last 24 hours on Twitter, realDonaldTrump went on rant against - about death and destruction fake news and evil. Should he get a mental health exam?" Do you want to expound on that?

LIEU: Happy to. I am not a Psychiatrist or Psychologist but I do read Donald Trump`s Twitter feed. I hope lots of people read it and they can determine for themselves whether there are some mental issues as an observer who is not a doctor, I think there are some issues there because, again, our President lies pathologically, he has a disconnection from the truth that is highly disturbing and we can`t have that person making decisions on things like nuclear weapons and we need to wake up and really start looking at this issue.

REID: Well, speaking of nuclear weapons, I mean, yourself and Ed Markey of Massachusetts have actually plotted a bill that would curb Donald Trump`s ability to launch a nuclear strike. Is this pegged to this idea that he`s mentally unhealthy or do you have any sort of scientific evidence to back up the idea that he`s not mentally suitable to make those decisions on a nuclear strike?

LIEU: We actually introduced this bill last year. So we think it should apply to any American President. But certainly the rants by Donald Trump do make this issue somewhat more urgent. What the issue is, is right now, one person can destroy the whole world. The President, he can launch 4,000 nuclear weapons with no checks or balances from the judiciary or the congress. We think if (INAUDIBLE) constitution never would have allowed that. That`s why our bill, which has now been endorsed by The New York Times, says that the President first needs to get a declaration of war from congress before launching a nuclear first strike.

REID: Got it. And Representative Lieu, you know, one thing that`s fascinated me about watching this congress, is the clear discomfort of republicans of your colleagues on the other side of the aisle, with any criticism of Donald Trump, even when he says something that directly contradicts of all of the past held positions of the republican party, on Russia, particularly on Russia but really on anything. Do you - behind the scenes, are your colleagues on the other side of the aisle voicing any problem with this? Are they as sort of freaked out by some of the things that he does as democrats are?

LIEU: Absolutely. And many of them are conveying that privately. But you do have some republican members publicly now contradicting the President. In fact, Mitch McConnell had to go public and say, no, America and Russia are not equivalent. You have now more and more members of congress standing up to Donald Trump because they realize he just makes stuff up, and he lies pathologically and he really does have this disconnection from the truth that is so very dangerous.

REID: Well, I mean, that almost makes me feel worse, right? I mean, because the idea of checks and balances was that this co-equal branch of government , the article one power of the congress could slow a President down or check him if he was going beyond the rails. If members of the Republican Party are saying that behind the scenes, then, you know, do you see any signs that they will then go publicly and actually use their power to check and balance this President?

LIEU: I hope they do and you are already starting to see more of this happen after Donald Trump had that very offensive call with the Australian Prime Minister, you saw that Senator McCain had to make a call to Australian embassy to calm things down. You saw republican Senator Corker make a similar call. So now you have republican members of congress trying to cover for the actions of our American President. That is highly disturbing and, again, we need to really look at this issue, and have people ask some serious questions.

REID: Absolutely. Well, Representative Ted Lieu, thank you so much for being with me tonight. Appreciate it.

LIEU: Thank you.

REID: Thank you. And joining me now, April Ryan, White House correspondent at American Urban Radio Network and author of "At Mama`s Knee: Mothers and Race in Black and White". And MSNBC political analyst Michael Steele, former chair at the Republican National Committee. Thank you both for being here. And April, I`ve got to start with you because there was this extraordinary New York Times story this weekend that told a tale of what`s happening in the White House. It was pretty extraordinary. Everything from Donald Trump going through and flipping through books about window coverings with an apparent sense of glee about that, aides not able to find the light switches and conferring in the dark because they can`t figure out how to operate them. This idea that Chris Christie the Governor of New Jersey had prepared an entire sort of briefing book. And he`s the only one with any governmental (INAUDIBLE) experience. And help them get set up and that was thrown in the garbage. But probably the most disturbing detail, this idea that Donald Trump find an executive order to give Steve Bannon extraordinary powers, put him on the NSC without really understanding what he was signing. What is the scuttlebutt about that report on capitol hill and I`m particularly interested on what republicans think of it.

APRIL RYAN, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORK, CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me say this. It`s even deeper than what you just chronicled. There`s a lot of stuff going - there`s high drama at the White house and you can see there`s a manic pace going on. And when you have a manic pace, it`s hard to really pull things together and take time to take a moment to sit and read through legislation or read through your executive orders. I mean, you hear some people on capitol hill talking about, oh, well, you know, many people don`t really read the bills. Well, this is showing that this is proof to a certain extent, this new President is not reading his documentation and they like to use the example of former President Barack Obama so much. He used to leave that Oval Office and I`ve seen him walking from the Oval Office down the colony to the executive mansion where he would go home, have dinner with his kids and then later on open up his paperwork and still read through things. This President likes to tweet. This President likes to watch the news. He may be watching us now. But it`s imperative that he takes time to read. And people on capitol hill, particularly republicans, they are cringing at this because there are a lot of life or death issues that have going on by the stroke of the pen right now with these - the latest executive orders and it`s very important that he reads.

REID: And you know - and Michael Steele, I remember when you were chairman of the Republican National Committee at the start of the Obama administration and the RNC was quite critical of Barack Obama and the pace and the speed with which he wanted to make big policy and I`m particularly thinking of health care.


REID: How do you justify the pace and sort of velocity with which this White house has seemed to throw policy out there without really seeming to think it through or without the President fully knowing what it is?

STEELE: I don`t try to justify it at all. I think my concerns/criticisms would be apropos here as well. You know, the idea that you rush through a health care bill and law that the speaker of the house acknowledges, we haven`t read but must pass it, is no less onerous than or no more onerous than what we see happening here where you`re rushing through executive orders in this instance without fully appreciating what the ramifications of those orders are. To the point that the President himself gets caught flat-footed and is angered by the fact that he signed something reportedly that he was unaware of the full extent of it. And I think what you`re seeing now, Joy, is the right - the White House under the leadership of the chief of staff with the backing of the President taking greater control and reins over this operation to put in place the appropriate protocols. The one thing that the hill really wants to see and April knows this well is structure. They love structure. And without structure, a lot of bad things tend to happen and I think that`s what - why you see the lawsuits, the protests and a lot of other things that are beginning to concern people on the hill because of the lack of structure. So we`ll see whether or not the chief of staff Reince Priebus has given the full and total complete authority he needs as chief of staff. Think about it, Joy, and April. You know this as well. There only - there`s only one other person in the White House who can tell the President no outside of the first lady and that should be the chief of staff. That`s the weight of that office and the responsibility of that office and it will be interesting to see whether or not the former chairman now chief of staff can exercise that.

REID: Is it structure or is it the contents of the policy? I don`t think that people are out marching the streets because of lack of structure. They`re marching in the streets because they oppose the idea of banning people from the country just because of their religion.

STEELE: Well, that goes to the structure because if you don`t have the structure in place, then you lay down the policy in a way that you have tried to avoid as much of that as possible. Look, the progressives, the liberals are going to be against what the President is doing regardless. So you know that. That`s baked in. But you don`t have to create more fodder for them. You don`t have to give them more ammunition, particularly when you layer on top of that judicial responses as a result of court decisions. So I think a little bit of laying that out, thinking it through, anticipating some of the pushback that you can get, getting more members of congress on board ahead of time, certainly getting all the cabinet officials involved will help stem some of that.

REID: OK. April, really quick two-part question for you. You do those in the briefings, so I can do it to you. Part one, do you see any evidence whatsoever that there is some sort of structure forming in the White House with Reince Priebus at the head and not Steve Bannon? And, number two, this extraordinary claim by Trump today that the media just doesn`t cover terrorist attacks. Do you see any evidence that the media that goes whole hard on any attack that even sounds like it might be by a Muslim is not being covered maybe that was more of a statement than a question but go ahead, April Ryan.

RYAN: All right Joy Reid, you`re playing April Ryan of the Briefing Room. OK. So one, they might try to form structure but it is upheaval. People are vying and jockeying for top spots and jockeying for attention. It`s major upheaval. I don`t know when it`s going to settle down. It seems like Steve Bannon is really the one, not Reince Priebus, who has the President`s ear more so. When it comes to the press and covering things, we are covering things. This President, you know, in this administration wants to get down on us. So, I mean, they are saying we`re not but we are. But they are actually doing things like leaking things to TMZ as well.

REID: Yes. And all the praise for Putin. Which is also interesting too.

RYAN: Yes.

REID: April Ryan and Michael Steele, thanks to you both for being with me. Appreciate it.

STEELE: All right.

RYAN: Thank you both.

REID: And still to come, an incredible defense of an autocrat`s worst act from the President of the United States. Retired General Barry McCaffrey on Donald Trump`s support for Vladimir Putin is next. And the resistance takes to the capitol. These are live pictures of the senate floor where democrats are pulling an all-nighter to try and stop President Donald Trump`s pick for Education Secretary. We`ll show you that fight and how it`s taking shape ahead.


REID: Donald Trump`s strange and repeated defense of Russian President Vladimir Putin has hit a new low. In an interview with Bill O`Reilly Trump talked about possible cooperation with Russia, but then he quickly got into trouble.

TRUMP: And if Russia helps us in the fight against ISIS, which is a major fight and Islamic terrorism all over the world.


TRUMP: Major fight. That`s a good thing. Will I get along with him? I have no idea.

O`REILLY: He`s a killer. Putin`s a killer.

TRUMP: There`s a lot of killers. We`ve got a lot of killers. What, you think our country`s so innocent? Do you think our country`s so innocent?

O`REILLY: I don`t know of any government leaders that are killers.

TRUMP: No. Take a look at what we`ve done, too. We`ve made a lot of mistakes. I`ve been against the war in Iraq from the beginning.

O`REILLY: Yes. Mistakes are different.

TRUMP: A lot of mistakes. OK. But a lot of people were killed. So a lot of killers around, believe me.

REID: Now just a reminder. As to why Donald Trump fall so (INAUDIBLE) is so shocking. The list of Putin critics who have ended up dead include a former KGB agent who was poisoned with polonium. And a former deputy Prime Minister who was shot dead in the street with insight with the Kremlin. And joining me now MSNBC military analyst General Barry McCaffrey. Well General McCaffrey, your thought son this idea. And when you really even listen to it again, it was shocking hearing at the first time. But the idea that there`s no difference, essentially, morally between Vladimir Putin who kills journalists, I`ve read 36 journalist murdered in Russia since 1992. And it sounds like he`s saying the United States military in Iraq.

MCCAFFREY: Yes. I was incredulous when I heard the statement, Joy. I mean, here is right on the verge of going down to Centcom headquarters in Florida. The joint command along with special operations command which is done the preponderance of the fighting. 60,000 sum of U.S. troops killed and wounded protecting America since 9/11. Are those are people he`s talking about? In many ways, it`s the most shameful thing I`ve ever heard a President say. Putin`s running a criminal oligarchy. He invaded and siege Crimea, Easter Ukraine, his aircraft are buzzing U.S. Navy warships at sea in international waters. This guy is a thug. And so I was very proud - thank God, Senator Mitch McConnell and Congressman Ryan are going to have huge responsibilities to give us some balance in government in the coming years.

REID: I mean, earlier today, you called it the most un-American thing an American President has said. Do you stick with that statement?

MCCAFFREY: Yes. I mean, you know, the other one, the whole notion on torture. I mean, did you mean, didn`t publicly talk of torture. Putin doesn`t talk up torture. What are we saying? We have American values, certainly in the armed forces we do. We don`t always get it right. You know, we`ve made some serious errors in the past and every facet of our government. But for god`s sakes, this is still a citadel of principle and goodness, not one that looks like thugocracy in the rump Russian Republic.

REID: You know - you know I recalled that during President Obama`s ten year, republicans would repeatedly say that he was apologizing for America. That he didn`t truly love country. That he was going around the world apologizing. Has it surprised you there hasn`t been more condemnation of these kinds of statements coming out of republicans?

MCCAFFREY: Well, I think, you know, a lot of people are just nonplus, I don`t know what to make of it. But I don`t either - you know, he was elected with millions of supporters. So I personally think he is - kind of statements are - he`s betraying the people that voted for him. But in the long run, this is going to be a very tough situation if we can`t sort this out. You know, Admiral Mike Mullen had a great op-ed today in the New York Times talking about the National Security Council. And it wasn`t only adding this political operative of Mr. Bannon to the - as a principal, it was excluding a four the chairman of the JCS and reign four star general have been - it`s astonishing what`s going on over there. So they need to take a pause and think through of how to responsibly govern in a democratic society and they are not doing it right now.

REID: And what do you make of - I mean, we, the President Obama before he left the office pushed more U.S. tanks and troops into Poland, right? In an attempt to protect a Nato ally against the aggressiveness of Russia. What might those troops be thinking right now with the President seemingly more aligned in some senses with the President than our troops in many ways?

MCCAFFREY: You know, Putin actually is a major threat to the freedom of new Nato members in Eastern Europe. Particularly Poland. They`re frightened of this guy. And they`re with good reason. So it`s not just United States. It`s also the Nato alliance is trying to pull itself together to provide deterrence against having the eastern Ukraine invasion happen in other places. So again, you know, the armed forces, 2.3 million men and women in uniform, active guard reserve, are prepared to deter mischief from Putin in western Europe. Where`s our President? By the way, thankfully, we have Secretary Jim Mattis as Secretary of Defense and I think this former congressman Mike Pompeo is going to be a stable, knowledgeable person, also. But this is really unsettling. America is its alliances and the Nato alliance is central to our security. The question is, where`s Mr. Trump going with all this?

REID: Yes. Indeed. Well thank you so much for all your time. General Barry McCaffrey, knows of what he speaks. Thank you sir.

MCCAFFREY: Good to be with you, Joy.

REID: Thank you.

And still ahead. The President of the United States attacks a co-equal branch of government. Attacking the judge who blocked his travel ban saying if something happens, blame him. That happened. So how are republicans defending this behavior? That discussion is coming up.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do I tell her that despite her education, her drive, her skills, her intelligence, she will automatically be valued as less than every man she ever meets? Or maybe I`ll be able to tell her something different.

REID: That ad from Audi promoting gender pay equity was one of the many Super Bowl ads packing an unmistakable political message. Some seemingly geared in direct opposition to the new President. We`ll discuss the resistance from the streets to the airwaves, coming up.


REID: A federal appeals court will hear oral arguments tomorrow on President Donald Trump`s travel ban. The court will decide whether or not the government can resume enforcement of that ban, which was temporarily halted Friday by federal Judge James Robart.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump is under fire from across the political spectrum for his attack on Judge Robart, a George W. Bush appointee, questioning the judge`s legitimacy in a tweet Saturday that read, "the opinion of this so- called judge, which essentially takes law enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned."

Trump added on Sunday, "just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system."

Joining me now is Republican strategist Matt MacKowiak and MSNBC contributor Charlie Sykes who is the editor of Right Wisconsin.

Thank you both for being here.

And Matt, former member of Congress I`m going to go to you first. How can - what do you make of this attack on Judge Robart by Donald Trump? Former congressman, sorry.

MATT MACKOWIAK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yeah, absolutely. I don`t think it`s appropriate. I don`t know what "so-called" judge means. He`s either a judge or he`s not. But he certainly could have called him an activist judge, perhaps. We`ll see what the ninth circuit does.

I half expect the left-wing 9th circuit, you know, in a three judge panel to rule against Trump 4-0.

Ultimately I think a court higher than the 9th circuit is going to decide this, and that`s what`s going to be so interesting about Supreme Court nominee Judge Neil Gorsuch is when does he get in on the court and does the Supreme Court have a 4-4 split when this comes to them, or are they able to wait until he gets on the court. I think that`s the thing to watch.

REID: And sorry for turning you into a member of congress. I know that`s not a popular thing to be right now.

MACKOWIAK: That was an insult, yeah.

REID: You`re a Republican strategist, which I think is a bit more popular than being any kind of member of congress, current or former..

Charlie Sykes, never been a member of congress so you`re clear on that front.

I`ve heard some of the rumbling today, just sort of among the legal beagles that they are hoping there is not any kind of a 4-4 split if this goes to the Supreme Court, that what`s needed here definitiveness, because the idea that you can, a, challenge a legitimacy of a judge who is sitting on the bench, whatever party, you know, whatever party the president was that nominated him, is problematic. But also this idea that the court has to get the same briefings as the president on intelligence before they can rule on the lawfulness of his orders.

A lot of people in the legal world are saying that`s disturbing. We need a definitive ruling here.

CHARLIE SYKES, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, you need to separate out the merits of this case from what the president did yesterday. The best-case scenario here was this was just one of his Twitter cheap shots rather than a well-thought out attack on the legitimacy of the independent judiciary.

Because if it`s the latter, we`re starting to see the pattern of a president who wants to delegitimatize every institution that might be a check or a challenge to him. And then look that`s disturbing.

Donald Trump clearly does not have a feel for what an independent judiciary means. And I think that that is something to keep in mind. This is not the first time he`s attacked a judge. It`s not clear that he fully understands what the constitutional checks and balances and divisions of power are in this country. And I`m guessing that those two words that so- called that that resonated awfully widely within the federal judiciary.

REID: And, you know, that is an important point. I do remember that Khizr Khan did offer to give him a copy of his constitution. Maybe he should take it.

Matt, you know, why do you suppose more Republicans are not condemning this attack on the judge when Trump attacked Judge Curiel who was presiding over a case, a lawsuit against him, even Paul Ryan, who never attacks Donald Trump came out and attacked that. Why aren`t Republicans speaking up?

MACKOWIAK: Yeah, look, I think in Washington there`s always a disincentive for members of one party to criticize a president of the same party. I don`t remember Democrats criticizing President Obama very much.

REID: But President Obama never attacked a federal judge or...

MACKOWIAK: That`s true. But a recent study I saw showed that he`d been overturned more than any modern president by the courts.

So, look, the courts are going to decide this. I agree with Charlie, like there`s a difference between what President Trump says and what he does. We`ve got to pay attention to what he does. Those are the things that have real impact on real people.

But again, I think the case law here, and I think the constitution is pretty clear that the president of the United States has the jurisdiction to decide who can enter this country as it relates to national security and immigration. But, again, this executive order was clumsily, I think, unveiled, didn`t handle people in transit - this issue with visa holders and green card holders. We`ll see where it goes from here. The courts are going to decide this ultimately, and I guess we`re going to have opening arguments tomorrow.

REID: Well, I would love for the producers to check on that stat that you said whether or not President Obama was overturned by many - more than any other.

Well, we`re going to have the producers look that up, too, because we want to make sure that we are keeping her facts straight here.

But I want to talk to you - you said about what the president does versus what he says. Let`s take a look at one of the things he says and get you to comment on what you think it means he might do.

This is Donald Trump talking about Vladimir Putin on Bill O`Reilly`s show. Take a listen.


TRUMP: Will I get along with him? I have no idea.

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: He`s a killer, though. Putin`s a killer.

TRUMP: There are a lot of killers. We`ve got a lot of killers. What, you think our country is so innocent? Do you think our country is so innocent?

O`REILLY: I don`t know of any government leaders that are killers in America.

TRUMP: Well, take a look at what we`ve done, too.


REID: So Matt, General Barry McCaffrey, who is an MSNBC analyst, but also a military veteran of some renown, called that the most unAmerican thing he`s ever heard an American president say. Your thoughts?

MACKOWIAK: Yeah, look, it`s something I can`t possibly agree with, to equate what Russia does as a regime versus what the history of the United States is. It`s freed more people across the world than any other country in the history of the world, you can`t equate them. You just can`t.

Now, look, maybe he`s trying to use Russia to try to solve this ISIS problem in Syria, maybe he`s playing some kind of three-dimensional chess here that isn`t visible to my eye. But, look, that was a poor statement.

You saw Republicans on Sunday criticize him, Senator Majority Leader McConnell did that, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida and others. That`s just a statement he needs to take back.

REID: Charlie Sykes, did you ever think you`d live to see the day when a Republican president would take the side of Russia and essentially say we are no better than the president who has presided over the death of some 32 journalists? Did you ever think you`d live to see this Republican Party?

SYKES: Absolutely not.

And the reality is that if Barack Obama had said anything like that, Republicans heads would have exploded, they would have been talking about this, they would have been outraged and it would have lasted for four years.

Look, General McCaffrey`s comments I think are incredibly important. We know that Donald Trump watches a lot of television. I hope he sees that clip, because it`s one thing for Donald Trump to blow off what Hollywood celebrities might say about him, but for somebody with the credentials and the weight and gravitas of General McCaffrey to make the comments he made, this is a real problem. This is a real problem for Donald Trump.

Plus, look, conservatives have been pushing back against this false moral equivalency for 50 years. This is the kind of stuff the rhetoric that you might have expected from some anti-war left winger. To come from the president of the United States is not only morally obtuse, it is politically self-destructive.

REID: Yeah, absolutely.

And you know what, we know that he does watch a lot of TV. So, there`s a good chance he did see it.

Charlie Sykes and Matt MacKowiak, thank you both for being here.


REID: Thank you.

And still ahead, Senate Democrats are in the middle of a last-ditch effort to stop Betsy DeVos` confirmation as secretary of education, holding the floor for 24 hours. The Democratic resistance and the resistance by way of Super Bowl ads ahead.

Plus, Thing One, Thing Two gets the SNL treatment right after this break.


REID: Thing One tonight, Senator Al Franken got into politics via a unique path, part of which went through this very building, spending years as a writer and cast member for Saturday Night Live before he took office.

So when there was a suggestive exchange during Rick Perry`s confirmation hearing last month, they were all very aware it could become fodder for the SNL writers` room.


SEN. AL FRANKEN, (D) MINNESOTA: Thank you so much for coming into my office. Did you enjoy meeting me?

RICK PERRY, FRM. GOVERNOR OF TEXAS: I hope you`re as much fun on that dais as you were on your couch.

FRANKEN: Well...

PERRY: May I rephrase that, sir?

FRANKEN: Please. Please. Please. Oh, my lord.

PERRY: Well, i think we found our Saturday Night Live sound bite.



REID: Well, ultimately that exchange did not make it to the SNL stage, but there was a Franken moment from another hearing that did, which one? That`s Thing Two in 60 seconds.


REID: So Rick Perry`s moment with Senator Al Franken may have been a bit too on the nose for SNL, but clearly the writers were watching the senator interact with the nominee for secretary of education.

You may recall, Betsy DeVos struggled with Franken`s questions about a very common topic of debate in the education community: should we measure growth or proficiency.


BETSY DEVOS, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION NOMINEE: If I`m understanding your question correctly, around proficiency, I would also correlate it to competency and mastery.

FRANKEN: Well, that`s growth. That`s not proficiency.

DEVOS: The proficiency is if they`ve reached a like third grade level for reading, et cetera. Is that...

FRANKEN: No, I`m talking about the debate between proficiency and growth.


REID: Senator Franken famously never did get an answer to that question. And tomorrow we`ll find out if that matters to 50 Republican senators.

But on Saturday Night, another classic Kate McKinnon impersonation was born.



KATE MCKINNON, ACTRESS: Hello and thank you. Yes, yes, the man?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. Hi. I don`t think we ever got a clear answer on this. How do you value growth versus proficiency in measuring progress in students?

MCKINNON: OK. Well, yes, I don`t know anything about school, but I do think there should be a school, probably Jesus school, and I do think it should have walls, and roof and gun for potential grizzly.

MCCARTHY: Thank you. Betsy, that`s enough for now.

MCKINNON: Thank you.




SEN. BOB MENENDEZ, (D) NEW JERSEY: When asked if she would do away with gun-free schools zones if told so by the president, Mr.s DeVos after trying to avoid the question with a non-answer about grizzly bears attacking schools said that she would support the president.

I do not believe that it is the role of a cabinet secretary to simply and blindly support the president regardless of how misguided or dangerous an idea might be.


REID: Right now on the floor of the United States Senate, Democrats are in the midst of a 24 hour protest of Donald Trump`s nominee for Education Secretary Betsy DeVos.

The objective is not to stop the vote from happening: the Democrats don`t have the ability to do that, instead their aim seems to be to give constituents more time and motivation to call, write, email, Facebook and otherwise put pressure on their representatives to vote against DeVos.

Democrats need just one more dissenting Republican to kill her nomination. After Republican Senators Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Susan Collins of Maine both said last week that they would vote against DeVos rather than a champion of public education.

The Tampa Bay Times is reporting that Florida Senators Marco Rubio and Bill Nelson are facing an onslaught of pressure to vote against DeVos.

As it stands now, Vice President Mike Pence in his capacity as president of the Senate, will be be forced to break what`s currently a 50/50 tie making it the first time a vice president has had to vote on a cabinet nominee ever.

Now, one of the things that we can take from the first couple of weeks of Donald Trump`s presidency is that resistance is not futile. From Democrats systematically slowing down the process of getting cabinet nominees confirmed to congress backing down a plan to gut the Congressional Ethics Office after a public outcry, to a lawsuit by the attorneys general of Washington and Minnesota that temporarily stopped the federal government from enforcing key parts of Trump`s travel ban, it`s clear that opposition and visible loud, public pressure works.

In watching last night`s Super Bowl, the cultural resistance to Trumpism was on full display and we`ll talk about that, next.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to a brew a beer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to St. Louis, son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A beer for my friend, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, but next time, this is the beer we drink. (inaudible) Anheuser (inaudible) Busch.


REID: That not so subtle Budweiser ad that ran during the Super Bowl highlighting the immigrant story behind the founding of Anheuser-Busch was one of many ads carrying what sure felt like political messages. Another ad focusing on immigration last night is from the company 84 Lumber showing a mother and daughter on what appears to be an arduous journey to America.

The first cut of that ad, which depicted a massive border wall standing in their way did not air last night. It was rejected by Fox for being too, quote, political. Well, here is the part of the ad that did air.


REID: Sorry. The part that did not air is what you just saw. The ad, as you can see, ends with the family spotting a huge door in the wall and pushing it open. Then it cuts to a man driving with tools and lumber in the back of his truck with a tagline that reads, "the will to succeed is always welcome here."

And joining me now is Ali Velshi, chief business correspondent for NBC News and Maria Hinojosa, anchor and executive producer of NPR`s Latino USA.

Thank you both for being here.

Maria, I`ve got to ask you, because last night, as you started to see the anger sort of building up on Twitter again particularly ad and the Budweiser ad, when did these sort of basic American ideas of immigration and the plucky will to succeed become a political statement against the American president?

MARIA HINOJOSA, NPR: Yeah, well, you know, when did we think this was going to happen because immigration is the story of America unless you were brought here as a slave. But I think that for me it felt very manipulative. I think that`s kind of what I`m coming away from. And especially if you put those two ads back to back.

But particularly the ad about the journey of the young woman and her child. So I watched it during the Super - well, no, I didn`t -- I taped it and watched but I happened to stop on that ad. I watched it, this part that you`re seeing here. And I was really taken by the love between the daughter and the mother. I found it beautiful, and I found the cinematography beautiful. And I was like, oh my god, there`s a humanizing here. What`s going to happen? And of course then it cut off. And I didn`t see the rest of it until this afternoon when I knew I was going to be coming here.

REID: Right.

HINOJOSA: And I was really upset and angry. I felt so manipulated by this, because it`s the normalization of a wall. So the wall exists. It`s already built. It`s normalized. And then to normalize something that is completely not true. The notion that there is a door, that there will ever be a door in that wall, that kind of hope. And I feel like it`s preying on people`s emotions, that it`s like, oh, you`ll feel for that mother and that child.

REID: Right.

HINOJOSA: But in the end, door didn`t open for you and so sorry. Open for them because I guess god made it open.

ALI VELSHI, NBC NEWS: So ironically, the CEO -- I`ve been in this business for 24 years. I`ve been covering business. I`ve never heard of 84 Lumber in my life. It`s probably now the best known lumber company in the world.

REID: Sure.

VELSHI: The CEO of that company was a Trump supporter. The story was about the door. So, Maria`s reaction is actually correct.

HINOJOSA: That`s fascinating.

VELSHI: All of those who were mad at it, the Trump supporters who didn`t like the Anheuser-Busch, there was boycott Busch hashtag and all of those who didn`t like the 84 Lumber ad, the 84 Lumber Ad was somebody who wanted to focus on Donald Trump saying, there`s going to be a big, beautiful, huge door in that wall.

HINOJOSA: Oh, my goodness.

VELSHI: That`s what that is about. That is a Trump supporter saying we need the wall, but we need the door.

REID: That`s the first time that I`ve heard that, honestly, because all of the talk we`ve heard about this ad has been that it was...

VELSHI: Overtly political and aimed at Trump.

REID: Right, that it was a thumb in the eye of Donald Trump, but this is the first time I`m hearing the other side of the story.

VELSHI: So, remember that Coca-Cola ad last night is an old ad, it`s from 2014. And when it ran in 2014, virtually nobody thought it was political, some people did. But virtually nobody did.

There were some people in 2014 angered by the idea of an American patriotic song being sung by different voices and different languages, but in my opinion those are the people who go home and kick their puppies.

So that wasn`t political on that level. Coke probably said we don`t want to get crazy political this time, so we`re going to run an old ad. But even that has overtones of...

HINOJOSA: It just -- again, it begins to feel so manipulative. The ad with Anheuser-Busch of the immigrant who is coming from Germany and it`s just like he experiences one moment where somebody says, we don`t like your kind here.

VELSHI: You don`t look like you`re from around here.

HINOJOSA: OK, and then suddenly...

VELSHI: Life is great. And he`s like - and they are like welcome, come through the door. And here`s a beer for you, by the way.

VELSHI: But it`s not - you feel manipulated because we`ve probably seen a thousand ads like this in our history, right, this celebration of the immigrant culture that is America.

REID: But here`s the question.

HINOSA: The white guy makes it, the Latina woman and her child, the door opens because of god.

REID: Yeah.

But, you know, I have to ask you this question, because the thing that I saw a lot of people tweeting last night was this idea that the companies that advertised in the Super Bowl made this conscious decision to not advertise to red America, which is sort of the opposite of what you guys are talking about.

But what do you make of that, that people are saying that seems like a business decision to advertise only to blue America.

VELSHI: I`ve heard that a lot today. I don`t buy it. If you`re Bud, if you`re Anheuser-Busch, why would you do that? That`s just a bad political decision. If you`re AirBnB, I entirely understand that decision and I think that`s what they did.

REID: But they are also apologizing for their own behavior.

VELSHI: Right. Right.

REID: ...had a problem with this.

VELSHI: But they know where their audience sort of is. They`re also a tech company, they`re west coast-based. They know that`s where they have to go.

In the case of 84 Lumber, it seems a lot of the motivation was that they`re in the lumber business where they`ve got a shortage of labor and they`re trying to get young, conscious people to say, hey, I like this company. It`s got a good image.

HINOJOSA: I`ll take it one step further, if anybody in Latin America was watching that ad, they are thinking, I want to work for that company. I think I`ll go take that trek because they actually...

VELSHI: We can get New York that`s restaurants and things like that....

HINOJOSA: They depend on undocumented immigrant labor to make the lumber that we all -- they are invisible. You never see them anywhere, because they are in the back woods working on lumber. I think this was a ploy to say, come over. We want your work.

REID: And you what`s amazing? I think you might have had to have lived in some place like Florida to know just how dependent the building and construction industry is dependent on undocumented immigrant labor, low paid in many cases undocumented immigrant labor.

Thank you very much for that. Ali Velshi and Maria Hinojosa, wow. Thank you very much for joining us. And that is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right this very second. Good evening Rachel and happy Monday. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END