All In With Chris Hayes, Transcript 12/8/2016

Guests: Chuck Jones, Bernie Sanders, Norman Eisen, Keith Ellison, Christina Greer, Michelle Goldberg

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: December 8, 2016 Guest: Chuck Jones, Bernie Sanders, Norman Eisen, Keith Ellison, Christina Greer, Michelle Goldberg


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer.

HAYES: Donald Trump called out for giving false hope to the forgotten men, has now picked a fight with him.

CHUCK JONES, CARRIER UNION LEADER: I had all kind of threats and stuff over the years, so I guess got a little more thick skin.

HAYES: As the Trump victory tour continues, union leader Chuck Jones with his response to the President-elect`s provocation.

And Senator Bernie Sanders on Trump`s redefinition of bully pulpit.

Plus, new reporting on Donald Trump`s plan to keep ties to his businesses. The fast food CEO who wants to replace workers with robots tapped to run in the Labor Department. And even more alarm bells over Trump`s pick for National Security Adviser.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that we need to aggressively examine what was going on with General Flynn and his son.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.

Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. And we are now 43 days from Donald Trump becoming President of the United States. 24 hours since Trump attacked a labor leader, who had the temerity to call him out. He`s here to respond shortly. And just minutes away from Trump appearing at the third stop on the President-elect`s Victory Tour, tonight`s event is in Des Moines, Iowa. We will monitor the event and bring you the news as warranted. Now, during the campaign and in his victory speech, Trump characterized himself as a champion of working Americans.


TRUMP: Every single American will have the opportunity to realize his or her fullest potential. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer.


HAYES: Today, we learned that Trump will pick a labor secretary who opposes raising the federal minimum wage, and who has spoken enthusiastically about replacing workers with robots. Trump tapping Andy Puzder, the CEO of the fast food company that owns fast food restaurants Carl`s Jr. and Hardee`s, to lead the Labor Department.

Puzder who has paid more than $4.4 million in 2012 has argued strenuously against raising the federal minimum wage which is just $7.25 per hour, arguing that an increase would be bad for workers, because it would force business owners to cut jobs. Earlier this year, he said he wants to create a restaurant where consumers never interact with employees in order to combat rising labor costs. Speaking about the machines that would replace human workers, Puzder told Business Insider, "They`re always polite, they always upsell, they never take a vacation, and never show up late, there`s never a slip and fall or an age, sex or race discrimination case."

Trump may discuss the Puzder pick tonight. He might also once again attack union leader Chuck Jones who represents the Carrier workers, whose jobs Trump pledged to save. After Jones said this week that Trump lied about how many jobs would actually be saved in his deal with Carrier, Trump tweeted, quote, "Chuck Jones, who is {resident of the United Steelworkers 1999, has done a terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee country."

And joining me now is Chuck Jones, President of United Steelworkers Local 1999, which represents Carrier workers in Indianapolis. Chuck, before we get to what the President-elect said yesterday and everything, can you just tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do as president of that local, how long have you been doing that -- playing that role?

JONES: Yeah, I`ve been president or vice president of this local since 1985 with exception of three years. So, almost 30 years all together.

HAYES: And I just want -- I mean, just in case it`s not clear to people, you`re not -- you`re not getting rich off this job. You`re not in this job for glamour, fame or bucks?

JONES: No, and the reason that I liked it and the reason I got involved in it, is it`s something different every day, and I got involved because I thought I could make a difference in people`s lives, and, you know, try to do the best I can for people we represent.

HAYES: You know, there`s -- there are folks who Bernie Sanders, who I`m going to speak to, just after you, said that you`re the reason that people know about Carrier`s plan to move jobs overseas and outsource. I mean, you`ve been working this beat -- there`s a picture of you meeting with Governor Mike Pence, now the Vice President-elect. You`ve been working on this for quite some time.

JONES: Yeah, ever since Carrier announced they were going close to the facility in February, we`ve tried to keep it alive, and you guys have helped get the message out there to the American people, of what is going on in this country, as far as people who lost jobs due to corporate greed.

HAYES: So, I want to -- I want you to tell me what it is that -- what has it been like to have the President-elect of United States, arguably one of the most famous people in the country, maybe the world, personally attack you?

JONES: To be quite honest, when I heard the tweet, I laughed, and the guy that was telling me what it was. He sounds serious, and I laughed some more. I mean, my wildest imagination, I never would expected that. And hell, it don`t affect me one way or the another. I`ve had a lot more people say than I have been respected a lot more, say things and Trump`s -- you know, you got to give the man credit, he`s got some spunk in him, so, you know, that`s fine, you know? It ain`t no big deal one way or another.

HAYES: Can you explain when you -- I want to just be clear about what your contention was and why it frustrated you to watch him say what he said when the numbers came out. When you said he lied his ass off, what specifically did you mean by that?

JONES: Well, you know, I would assume being the great negotiator that he`s already says that he is, that he would have known, when he sat down with UTC, how many jobs there were talking about? And the jobs that he was personally involved in, keeping here in Indianapolis is 800, and once again, I want to give him a great amount of thanks for what he did to keep these jobs here in the city, and I thank him once again. But to portray it that it was over 1,100 gave the people some false hope that there were more jobs staying here than the 800 only, because the 350 research and development jobs were counted in when him and Governor Pence kept on saying, 1,100 and some odd, they were already staying here in this city.

Carrier now is to close down in February, and they said at that point in time, the research and development jobs were what will remain here in the city. And then, Trump and Pence tried to take credit for them again. How many times can you take credit for the same jobs staying here in the city? You know, not that many times. So consequently, when two days before he came in, they was putting out everywhere 1,100 and some odd jobs were going to remain in this city, it gave people false hope that they might have a job, for then to find out that, no, the number is 730, bargain unit jobs and 70 supervisory jobs, 800 jobs altogether. It is good, but it wasn`t it.

HAYES: But there were folks -- I mean, there were folks, presumably you had -- who thought their job was staying and it is leaving and you had or someone else had to be the one to break it to them, that actually it`s not going to stay.

JONES: Yeah, and all I asked for was them to be upfront with the people.

HAYES: Yeah.

JONES: You know, in my opinion, what they should have did, is say, "Hey, we got involved with UTC, we were able to save 700 or 800 jobs, 550 are still going to Mexico." It don`t get any simpler than that.

HAYES: Let me ask you this, finally, Chuck. We know the President-elect really likes to watch cable news, he might be watching us right now for all we know, is there a message -- is there something you want to tell him, if you had a chance to meet him face to face?

JONES: Yeah, most certainly. If his goal is to try to keep jobs in this country, I share that goal. I have all my adult life that people here in this country ought to have the right to good-paying jobs and they shouldn`t be leaving for China, Mexico. If he, at any point in time, with Carrier and then one of our other plants, Rexnord, would like to get together and see what we can do collectively to keep jobs in this country, I think it`d be an excellent idea. You know, we`re all going to have disagreements with each other, but if we got a mind, we can focus in on a mind-set that benefits everybody. I think that can be accomplished. So, if he wants to reach out and see what we can do, I`m all aboard.

HAYES: All right. Chuck Jones, thank you. Appreciate it.

Joining me now, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Senator, let me ask you what`s your reaction to the man who is soon to be the most powerful person on the earth, I don`t think that`s hyperbole, using his platform to insult and attack a union president in Indianapolis.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, I think what can we say, Chris, the word, incredible, unbelievable, is no longer applicable to Mr. Trump. Because he does one crazy thing after another, but to attack a local labor leader in Indianapolis, who has fought valiantly for his workers to protect the jobs of his steelworkers is really unbelievable. But, is as usually the case with Mr. Trump, there`s more beneath the surface, and that is what he was really doing, is I think sending a message to the entire trade union movement that do not stand up and fight for working people or we`re going to go after you. We need to -- in my view, we need to grow the trade union movement in America. We need to make it easier for workers to be able to engage in collective bargaining, and what Trump is saying is exactly the opposite.

HAYES: Yeah, I mean, you know -- I mean, the point you made about how valiantly Chuck has fought for those folks -- those folks in those factories, I mean, you know him. I think you -- the two of you had breakfast on Election Day.

SANDERS: That`s right.

HAYES: And you`ve been pretty invested in the Carrier factory.


HAYES: In many ways, the reason it was a story, I believe you said was, because of the leadership of Chuck Jones.

SANDERS: Right. Now, Chuck has done a great job, and I think what Mr. Trump has responded to is the very correct and truthful assertions that Chuck Jones has made, and that is, yes, good news, some jobs were saved at Carrier and we`re all happy about that. Bad news is that more than half of the jobs are still going to be outsourced to Monterey, Mexico, where people are paid three bucks an hour, despite Trump`s campaign promise that he would save all of the jobs.

Trump told us he was going to stand up to large corporations who were outsourcing, but he ended up doing in the case of United Technologies and Carrier is give them a tax break. And I think what Trump`s ire comes from, his anger comes from, is that Chuck Jones told the truth.

HAYES: You know, when you talk about what his rhetoric was like on the campaign trail, referring to the President-elect, and what his policies would be like, today, we got his announcement of his nominee for Department of Labor, a business magnate, Mr. Puzder, who runs Carl`s Jr., who doesn`t believe in minimum wage increases. What`s your response to that?

SANDERS: Well, my response is that everybody who voted for Mr. Trump, who believed his campaign promises, who thought that he was really going to stand up to the establishment and fight for working people, please pay attention to the reality of what he`s doing, rather than his campaign rhetoric. I think almost everybody in America, Chris, including many republicans, understand that we need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, in my view, 15 bucks an hour.

So, he hires somebody who makes his money through fast food by paying people very low wages. Many of these people have to get public assistance from tax payers, through Medicaid, through food stamps. That`s the way this guy does business. This is a guy who thinks the automation should replace higher paid fast food workers. So you got an anti-worker Secretary of Labor nominee rather than fulfilling Mr. Trump`s promises of saying he was going to side with the working people of this country.

HAYES: So, it`s interesting what you just said, because my question to you is, are you confident -- there`s a real question right now before us, as we enter this era, of how much reality is going to matter, honestly. I mean, I think there`s a confidence in some ways that politicians like yourself, I think even this White House of the current president had, that if you produce tangible gains, ultimately the truth wins out. And the question here to you is, are you confident that`s still the case, that should it be the case that wages decline, that outsourcing continues, that the economic squeeze on the middle class continues under a President Trump, that folks will pin it on him and not pin it on you or the democrats or some other scapegoat?

HAYES: Well, you`re raising a very profound question. And that is, what do you do when you have a President-elect, soon to be president, who, and I say this not happily, but I think most people who observe them would agree he`s a pathological liar. Who changes his mind every single day. And what you`re asking, does any of that matter? And I think the answer is, and I am working very hard on this, and we need the help of the American people, obviously, is to build a movement of millions of people who actually are following reality.

HAYES: Right.

SANDERS: OK, and that`s the challenge. Real change in this country, I am more and more convinced of it, is not going to come from Capitol Hill. It`s going to come from grassroots America.

HAYES: All right. So you and I are going to be in Kenosha, Wisconsin, on Monday. Kenosha is a fascinating place, it`s obviously got an amazing labor tradition, it`s a place where people made car engines for years. Those jobs have gone away. It`s got now an Amazon warehouse, it went for Barack Obama twice, Donald Trump won it narrowly. We`re going to have a town hall. What are you -- what are you looking for? What are you -- what do you want to see in this event that we do together on Monday?

SANDERS: Well, first of all, I want the truth. I really want to hear why people voted, the way they voted. I want to hear why people voted for Donald Trump, what their expectations were, why they did not vote for Secretary Clinton. Second of all, I want to bounce off to people their views about what a progressive agenda is. Do they support raising the minimum wage to a living wage? Do they support pay equity for women? Do they support a real new trade policy, which will demand that corporate America invests in this country? So, I think what we want to do is what kind of agenda makes sense to working people? What was the attractiveness of Donald Trump?

HAYES: All right. Senator Bernie Sanders, thanks for your time tonight. I`ll see you next in Kenosha, Wisconsin. I`m looking forward to it.

SANDERS: OK. Thank you, Chris.

HAYES: And be sure to be here with us on Monday for our town hall in Wisconsin, a special edition of "ALL IN AMERICA: BERNIE SANDERS IN TRUMP COUNTRY."

Coming up, new reports confirm Donald Trump plans to keep a stake in his business. Next, the man warning electors that in doing so, Trump could be violating the constitution the minute he takes office. That`s after this two-minute break.


HAYES: All right. At this hour, Mike Pence, the Vice President-elect and the Governor of Indiana is speaking in Des Moines, Iowa. We`re expecting that Donald Trump will speak later, but do not go anywhere. We will keep it right here and monitor that for you.

Now, the man considered by many to be a reality show candidate will now literally be a reality show president. MGM, the company that produces "Celebrity Apprentice" today, confirming Donald J. Trump will continue to serve as that show`s executive producer in addition to his duties as, well, leader of the free world. The program now hosted by former California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger will air on NBC, although, it is produced and owned by MGM. NBC Entertainment has declined to comment on this story.

With the December 15th News Conference approaching in which President-elect Donald Trump has claimed he will discuss how he plans to take himself out of the business operations of his company, and all of its real estate operations. Today, The New York Times reports that Trump and daughter, Ivanka, will leave the operational responsibility to the President-elect`s two adult sons. "The Trumps are exploring what was described by one person briefed on the discussions as a `legal structure` that would give Mr. Trump and his daughter separation from the company."

Whatever that means, the President-elect intends to keep a stake in his company, and will resist calls to divest according to several people briefed on the matter speaking to The Times. So, this is important, the result will be, if everything goes according to plan, a President of the United States who even if he is not actively daily running his company, maintains business interests and the conflicts that come with them all around the world. And we already have an idea of what that would look like. The shadow it might cast over the decisions he makes. Take, for example, Taiwan. "We know that a Taiwan city planning a makeover says a Trump agent showed interest," according to The Times in development there. And we know that the President of Taiwan pictured there engaged in an unprecedented call with U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, possibly up- ending in a possibly dangerous fashion, America`s relationship with nuclear-armed China.

Now, we don`t know why Trump did that, but is it possible he did it because he wants to further his business interests in Taiwan? Who knows? We can`t be sure, and we cannot be sure unless he divested his interest in his company.

Joining me now, Ambassador Norman Eisen, former Chief White House Ethics counsel to President Obama, who along with George W. Bush`s former Chief Ethics Counsel said the Electoral College should reject Trump unless he sells his business. Ambassador Eisen, let`s start with that. You and Mr. Painter have both made this argument, it`s a very strong one, do you really think this is -- we`re headed into a constitutional crisis given the current setup for the President-elect?

NORMAN EISEN, FORMER CHIEF WHITE HOUSE ETHICS COUNSEL: Thanks, Chris, and thanks for having me. I do think we`re headed into a constitutional crisis. It is as if we`re in a parallel reality. The President-elect is forbidden under the expressed terms of the constitution. Once he takes office from getting flows of money from foreign governments. At the same time, in his international businesses and his businesses in the United States including his hotel, right down the block from the White House, he`s actively soliciting foreign governments.

The money and other benefits from foreign governments that will hit the moment he takes the oath of office, are forbidden by a provision of the constitution known as the Emoluments Clause. In plain language, it means no foreign benefits for presidents and yet he`s going to be getting them. That`s a constitutional crisis not from day one, from minute one.

HAYES: You know, part of the problem here, too, and when you talk about foreign governments, you`re talking about things that have been reported. Often, they`ve been reported in the foreign press, and that`s how we learn about them. But I want to -- I want to read you the lead of this great Wall Street Journal piece out today about the corporate structures of his holdings that make it very hard to penetrate what exactly they are. Take a -- take a listen to this. "President-elect Donald Trump owns a helicopter in Scotland. To be more precise, he has a revocable trust that owns 99 percent of a Delaware limited liability company that owns 99 percent of another Delaware LLC that owns a Scottish limited company that owns another Scottish company that owns the 26-year-old Sikorski S-76B helicopter emblazoned with a red Trump on the side of its fuselage."

I mean, is there -- are there requirements for disclosure such that we would even know when he takes the oath of office, what it is he owns?

EISEN: Chris, I was privileged to talk to the Journal as they put that story together. His corporate structures remind me of the flowcharts that they used to put up in the pizza connection in the mafia prosecution cases decades ago. This incredibly complex spaghetti chart. Why? And the situation is exacerbated by the fact that we don`t have his tax returns.

So, you have a combination of a global business enterprise, flows of money from foreign sources including foreign governments, an express prohibition in the constitution, a shadowy, vast, complicated corporate structure, and no taxes unlike every president for decades. It is a recipe for disaster and it`s going to turn the White House into a school for scandal.

HAYES: All right. Norm Eisen, Ambassador Norm Eisen, a pleasure. Thank you for staying up in Paris, appreciate it.

EISEN: All right. My pleasure, Chris, thanks for having me.

HAYES: Let`s check in with the President-elect of the United States who has just been introduced in Des Moines, Iowa. You could see him there walking into the hallway and clapping along with the iPhones and smartphones of various fans that have been taken out to take a picture of him. This is -- we should note, this is his third event like this. He`s doing another one tomorrow night. They originally -- a staffer had called these Victory Tours and then had changed the name to a Thank You tour, although, it should be noted he`s been going to states that he won.

This is someone who won an Electoral College majority, of course, making him the President-elect, but has lost the popular vote by about 2.6 million votes or 2 percentage points. A historic margin between the two, we haven`t seen since 1876 between Samuel Tilden and Rutherford B. Hayes.

It`s unclear whether these are going to continue while the president-elect is president, whether he`ll be doing these three or four nights a week and in primetime hoping to get coverage for all of them every night, every other night. Let`s take a listen to what the President-elect has to say for just a moment.


TRUMP: What a crowd. Beautiful. Wow, wow! What a crowd! What great people, great people.

I`m here today for one main reason, to say thank you to the great, great people of Iowa. You went out and pounded, and I mean, pounded the pavement. You organized your fellow citizens and propelled us to victories at a grassroots and every other level. We have a movement the likes of which this world has never seen before. Never seen before. I also want to give a very special thanks to our veterans, a lot of veterans in this room, thank you. Thank you. Service members, military families, unbelievable people. Yesterday was the 75th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, and a reminder of the countless Americans who made the ultimate sacrifice for this and our country.

America`s men and women in uniform are the finest and bravest the world has ever known. And by the way, folks, we`re going to be building up our military. It will no longer be a depleted military, I promise. So, to all serving in our military and to all veterans who wore the uniform before, I say to you now on behalf of a very, very grateful nation, thank you, thank you, thank you.

We`re in your debt and we will never, ever let you down. Never. We`ll honor your service, your sacrifice, and that really begins with defending and respecting our American flag. I think you`ll be liking some of the things we`ll be putting forward in the not too distant future, do you know what I mean? Yes? Do you know what I mean? When Pearl Harbor was attacked, one man who immediately enlisted to defend his country was, John Glenn. For the next seven decades, he devoted his life to serving the American people, which he did from the cockpit of his bullet-riddled fighter jet -- tough times -- in the weightless silence of his mercury space -- oh, that`s OK. That`s OK. We have to respect John Glenn. That`s all right.

I think they`re actually on our side. They just don`t know it yet. They will be soon. But John was also in the weightless silence of his "Mercury" spacecraft and later in the halls of the U.S. capitol, our nation mourns the passing of one of our great heroes. He was a giant among men and a true American legend. Who inspired generations of explorers and dreamers, and we will honor his legacy by continuing to push new frontiers in science, technology and space.

In filling my cabinet, I`m looking for people who fully understand the meaning of service and who are committed to advancing the common good. One such man who, by the way, our country has fallen in love with, is General James "Mad Dog" Mattis.

HAYES: Donald Trump in Des Moines, Iowa. There were some protesters there holding up a sign saying "Iowa no hate." He gave a nice tribute to John Glenn, the astronaut, Ohio senator who died today at the age of 95. First man to orbit the earth.

Joining me now, Michelle Goldberg, columnist for Slate, and Christina Greer, Associate Professor Political Science at Fordham University. I --


HAYES: Well, these rallies are odd, right? Because they`re in some ways they`re identical to the campaign rallies, which was a staple of the campaign. Michelle, you went to a bunch and talked to people. I went to a few. And they`re also little weird because there`s no campaign anymore so- -

MICHELLE GOLDBERG, SLATE: There`s just now the permanent campaign.

HAYES: That`s right. Yes, right.

GOLDBERG: I think that we always thought during the campaign that part of what Trump was in it for were the rallies, themselves, right, that that was part of what he was getting out of it. So I think what we`re going to see during the next four endless dystopian years is him making any excuse he can to kind of have these mass rallies and these, you know, i mean, he seems to -- there`s a kind of symbiotic energy between him and these crowds that he`s really addicted to I think.

HAYES: Yeah.

GREER: Well, I think it`s very clear that Trump wants the wedding and not the marriage, and the fact he`s skipping--

HAYES: That`s a funny way to put it, it`s a very funny way to but it.

GREER: He wants the big pageantry and that`s it, you know, and he doesn`t want the long term sort of like putting in the hard work. That`s for Pence to do, that`s why Pence is actually going to the briefings. And, you know, Trump went to two and he`s now ditching school.

So this is what he enjoys. And as Michelle says, this is where he gets his energy, this is where he gets his confidence and so he already said, you know, when he was campaigning, like, this is what he wants to do. He wants to go out, and make America great again and convince people that he`s doing that.

HAYES: All right. Let me play devil`s advocate here because I think -- you know, there`s one level which I have a sort of instinctual aversion to the mode of the Trump rally, particularly after he won because it feels like -- it feels not that far from, you know, rallies for the leader, which don`t have a great history, I think, in politics across the world.

But then I say to myself, well, look, you know, I remember conservatism criticized Barack Obama for throwing these huge rallies and they would say he`s a rock star and he brought out Greek columns and I remember many Democrats and progressives who wanted him to keep doing events like that during the ACA fight who got mad at him for not doing it.

So,what`s the difference with him touching base with who his political base is?

GOLDBERG: I think it would have been inconceivable for Obama just to do a bunch of rallies in the states that voted for him, right.

HAYES: So, you think that`s the thing that bothers you?

GOLDBERG: Well, no, I mean, the whole posture is kind of one of both rallying the people who voted for him and also kind of menacing and threatening the majority who didn`t, right, with these sort of menacing asides. They`re on our side, they just don`t know it yet. You know, we`re going to like what we have in store.

It`s -- I don`t think that I`m reading too much into this.

HAYES: Right. hat`s my question, right, like in the words of Barack Obama, like, are you saying that`s menacing because of the words or you saying it because it`s coming from the mouth of Donald Trump? I mean--

GOLDBERG: I mean, yeah, because it`s coming from the mouth of Donald Trump who`s going to turn our country into a racist police state.

GREER: Well, I think that`s what he ran on and here we are, right?

But I think the fundamental difference also is when Barack Obama was having these rallies, he was actually having rallies to bring people together. He was saying I want to actually think about immigration, so if you`re, you know, here, and you`re over here, like, let`s actually figure out a way that we can get health care together.

I mean, it was a lot of togetherness.

Trump rallies are--

HAYES: And have been, right.

GREER: Trump rallies have a feeling of a Klan rally, they have a feeling of a white supremacist rally for a lot of people. There`s a lot of fighting and beating people down, there`s a lot of shouting. There`s a lot of people who have signs that are physically being removed by the protesters and being encouraged by Trump to sort of, you know --

HAYES: By supporters, you mea.

GREER: By supporters.

You know, and so I think that`s a fundamental difference. We have the leader actually encouraging this really negative hate-filled behavior.

HAYES: Although I will say, again, I`m trying to bend over backwards here to be fair, that the tone -- there`s been a -- there has been a slightly different tone at these three that he`s done. I haven`t been in the room so it`s hard to tell, right, but just, I mean, for instance, the president-elect, thank god, did not say, like, if you hit him, about the protester, I will pay your legal bills.

GOLDBERG: So that`s--

HAYES: That`s progress.

GOLDBERG: That`s the bar, right?

So, okay--

GREER: I think normalizing such a low bar.

HAYES: No, I know.

GREER: We have to be really careful, right?

HAYES: Right.

GREER: His behavior has been so--

HAYES: But I guess I also -- But I guess what I`m trying to say here is there is a degree to which this -- the pageantry of Donald Trump inspires a lot of revulsion in people that understandably, right. And the question is, like, how can you sort of see it through the glasses which are not being totally clouded by that sort of instinctual response, you know what I mean?

GOLDBERG: I do understand what you`re saying, because I also think that those of us, you know, the three of us, maybe people watching this, we also have an instinctive framework for what fascism looks like and there`s like a series of -- there`s fascist aesthetics and kind of fascist rhetoric and we have this template that probably a lot of people looking at this don`t. And so to a lot of people I can imagine, yeah, so what if the president wants to have a bunch of patriotic rallies, right?

I mean, I can`t imagine if you don`t see Donald Trump as a uniquely terrifying demagogic figure then not only does this look somewhat innocuous, but people`s terror in the face of it seems like ridiculous and overblown.

HAYES: Right. And here`s what I want to sort of slide this to, right, is that, like, to sort of keep the eyes on the -- the thing that he did with Chuck Jones yesterday which was just using the 60 million Twitter followers, the president-elect just hauling off on someone on Twitter like a private citizen. And we know -- I mean, we know from Megyn Kelly now talking in her book about him threatening to unleash his beautiful Twitter followers on her, we know what has happened to people that this person has put in the crosshairs.

I mean, Paul Waldman wrote this today "Trump is going it get somebody killed," this is what he warned: "with a president who will regularly propagating crazed conspiracy theory and signaling out citizens as targets of his displeasure, it`s only a matter of time before another of his well armed supporter decides to take matters into their own hands and this time finishes the job."

This comes on the heels of showing up at that pizza store in D.C.

I mean, there`s something really discreetly menacing about that.

GREER: Think about the death threats he received, right? He was just -- I mean, he`s a tough old union guy. So, he`s like, you know, that comes with the territory. But if you ever read the comments in Breitbart, they`re nothing but death threats to myself, to other women who have been targeted in articles. I mean, it immediately goes there. And so it`s only a matter of time, especially this isn`t just some CEO anymore. This isn`t just some thousandaire who claims he`s a billionaire or some real estate mogul or--

HAYES: Celebrity.

No, he`s the most powerful person in the world -- about to be.

GREER: And he loves it. And he`s feeding off of it in a way that he`s probably the worst type of person to become president.

HAYES: I just -- I don`t want to go before I just showed this piece of news today, which, again, like, these things are happening kind of at the periphery of the news flow. And this is the Giants fullback Nikita Witlock, OK, reportedly had his home vandalized with KKK written on the wall, Trump`s name and go back to Africa. This is a Giants fullback in his house.

And the name of the president-elect of the United States scrawled on the wall as an indicator--

GOLDBERG Well, the name of the president-elect of the United States has become a--

HAYES: In these specific circles.

GOLDBERG: --has becomes a slur. I mean, in a park where I take my kids, somebody put swastikas and Go Trump in you know bluest Brooklyn, right? People understand instinctively that Trump--

GREER: We`ve seen this with Latino students, right, when they play schools--

GOLDBERG: Trump, Trump, Trump.

GREER: And that`s to intimidate them. And that`s essentially they chant to intimidate them and that`s essentially a racial slur.

HAYES: That to me is maybe the most ominous thing -- worrying thing that`s happened in these three weeks.

Michelle Goldberg and Christina Greer, thanks to you both. Appreciate it.

GOLDBERG: Thank you.

HAYES: Now, do you remember this Donald Trump attack from way, way, way, way back in the general election three weeks ago?


TRUMP: she engaged in corrupt pay-for-play at the State Department for personal enrichment. These are sad events for our country. A high-ranking government official has been caught selling her public office.


HAYES: As a candidate, Donald Trump reveled in accusing Hillary Clinton of using the Clinton Foundation as a pay-for-play scheme in which donors got access to her and her capacity as secretary of state for some kind of special treatment.

Yesterday, as president-elect, Trump named Linda McMahon to head the small business administration, OK, in the federal government. McMahon along with her wrestling magnate husband just happens to be the biggest outside donor to the Trump Foundation.

According to The Washington Post, she and her husband, Vince McMahon gave $5 million to the Trump Foundation. Linda McMahon, also a failed senatorial candidate, also gave $6 million to a pro-Trump super PAC during the campaign.

Or one way you might put it is, McMahon paid and now she gets to play.

Imagine if a president-elect Hillary Clinton had named a top Clinton Foundation donor to lead the small business administration, House Republicans would be revving up a new hearing on that and the media would go wild. The Trump cabinet and all its non-swamp drainage issues ahead.


HAYES: Thing One tonight, earlier in the show we mentioned Andy Puzder, the man Trump is expected to name as his pick for secretary of Labor. Now, Puzder is the CEO of the fast food company that owns Carl`s Jr. and Hardee`s and one of the most incongruent aspects of his potential role as Labor Secretary is his once expressed desire to annihilate labor at his restaurants.

Earlier this year, Puzder said he want to try replacing workers with automation, saying machines are always polite, they always upsell, they never take a vacation, they never show up late, there`s never a slip and fall or an age, sex or race discrimination case."

So in effect the Carl`s Jr. restaurants could be fully automated where people would order from kiosks and machines would prepare the food and then the company wouldn`t have to pay, you know, human beings.

But while Puzder only proposed this in 2016, the idea of an automated Carl`s Jr. was raised ten years ago. In a movie that`s being called an eerie prediction of Donald Trump`s presidency.

And that is Thing Two in 60 seconds.


HAYES: Earlier this year, the screenwriter of the 2006 movie Idiocracy tweeted "I never expected Idiocracy to become a documentary."

The satirical comedy is about a future America in which the president is a brash entertainer and former pro wrestler whose speeches are full of curses and lewd references.

You can draw your own conclusions.

The movie is also bizarrely prescient given Donald Trump`s choice of Andy Puzder as Labor Secretary, the fast food CEO whose company owns Carl`s Jr, and who earlier suggested this year having fully automated restaurants.

This is a scene from Idiocracy, which, again, was released a decade ago.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --extra big ass fries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn`t give me no fries. I got an empty box.

UNIDENIFIED MALE: Would you like another?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --extra big ass fries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said I didn`t get any.

UNIDENITIFIED MALE: Thank you. Your account has been charged. Your balance is zero. Please come back when you can afford to make a purchase.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry you`re having trouble.



HAYES: by the way, CBS is, like, 90 percent of the way there we should note.

Carl`s Jr. pops up throughout the movie. In fact, one cabinet secretary constantly repeats the fast food brand in order to collect royalties.


LUKE WILSON, ACTOR: So who are you?

UNIDENITIFIED MALE: I`m the secretary of energy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He won a contest, got to be a cabinet member.

I`m secretary of state, brought to you by Carl`s Jr.

WILSON: Why do you keep saying that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because they pay me every time I do. It`s areally good way to make money.


HAYES: Again, that was just a movie, everyone, not real life. We hope.



CHUCK TODD, HOST, MEET THE PRESS: ho do you talk to for military advice right now?

TRUMP Well, I watch the shows. I really see a lot of great, you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows and you have the generals and you have certain people that you like.

TODD: But is there somebody, is there a go-to for you?

TRUM: Probably there are two or three--


HAYES: It`s a reasonably safe bet that one of the two or three generals the president-elect likes to watch on the shows is retired general Barry McCaffrey, a military analyst for MSNBC and NBC who just yesterday sat down with an interview about the new administration currently taking shape.

We don`t know if Trump was watching or not, but if he was he may have noted that McCaffrey expressed some pretty serious concerns about Trump`s pick for National Security Adviser, retired Lieutenant General Michael Flynn and the views Flynn expresses on Twitter.


GEN. BARRY MCCAFFREY, (RET.), MSNBC MILITARY ANALYST: You know, I was very strong in my endorsement of him when he was first announced for the NSC position. I said he was correctly probably the best intelligence officer of his generation, but I must admit I`m now extremely uneasy about some of these tweets, which don`t sound so much as if they are political skulduggery but instead border on being demented.

It`s going to be extraordinarily important position in government. It has tremendous opportunity to shape the course of foreign policy and defense policy. I think we need to aggressively examine what was going on with General Flynn and his son dealing with these transparent, nearly demented tweets that were going out.

I think it needs closer scrutiny.


HAYES: We shall see whether Trump takes General McCaffrey`s advice. Michael Flynn is one leg in the three-legged stool that is Trump`s remade Republican Party.

We`ll tell you what the other two legs of that stool are right after this break.


HAYES: The Republican coalition originally formed by Ronald Reagan has been described as a, quote, three-legged stool, an alliance among so-called family values voters, small government fiscal conservatives and national security hawks thattogether would keep the party in power.

Donald Trump already up-ended that stool over the course of his unconventional run for president. And now as he assembles his cabinet, he`s putting a new one in its place. One leg: the generals. Michael Flynn his National Security Adviser, James Mattis his Defense Secretary, John Kelly as secretary of Homeland Security. Then there are the billionaires: Steve Mnuchin as Treasury Secretary, Wilbur Ross at Commerce, Linda McMmahon at Small Business Administration and Betsy Devos at Education.

And finally, there`s some overlap here, we have the ideologues that wouldn`t be out of place in a Ted Cruz administration. In that category I put Trump`s new nominee for Labor Secretary, Andrew Puzder; Scott Pruitt, his pick for EPA, and Tom Price, his nominee for secretary of Health and Human Services.

One thing many of them have in common, not a whole lot of experience doing the jobs they`ve been nominated for. And in some cases opposing the very mission of the institutions they`re meant to serve.

I`m joined now by congressman Keith Ellison, Democrat from Minnesota, candidate for the DNC chair who was endorsed today by the AFL-CIO.

And congressman, I want to ask you about your race for the DNC chair, but first let me start with this. I have seen it said that Democrats should choose one or two cabinet picks to focus their opposition to and essentially let the rest slide.

What do you think of that?

REP. KEITH ELLISON, (D) MINNESOTA: I think that`s a bad idea. There`s a lot of these cabinet secretaries who have just deplorable records, and we ought to focus on all of them. I think the public is well able to look at the sum total of cabinet picks and come to the conclusion that they have been sold a false bill of goods. I mean, they were told that they were going to drain the swamp. It`s filling up. We were told we were going to focus on jobs, we got more billionaires than ever. We were told we`d have honesty in government, and you know what, you`ve got all kinds of scurrilous deals, particularly with McMahon with small business who essentially paid to get the job that she has now.

And so I think that to help the public understand the general tone of this cabinet is very important and just to select one or two out really doesn`t help tell the real story.

HAYES: You know, here`s my question to you. It`s striking to me when you look at Tom Price and Betsy Devos, you know, Scott Pruitt--

ELLISON: Keep going.

HAYE: Puzder -- those, all four of those, particularly, you could see in a Ted Cruz, maybe even frankly in a Marco Rubio administration. For someone that won that primary in some ways because of how much he deviated from Republican orthodoxy in many ways, it is striking to me how much this is a kind of revenge of the kind of movement conservative empire.

ELLISON: Well, I mean, look, he`s in conversations with the likes of Mitt Romney who, you know, said really tough things about him, but you know it`s all nice now. He won and he`s going to bring all these folks who he attacked right back up in the tent. And so, look, my point is false advertising. I mean, he said he was going to be a working class hero. He`s anything but. This is the biggest billionaire cabinet we`ve ever seen. And no transparency, no real clarity about what`s in it for working people., not one person I`ve seen who is out to help working people.

This guy Puzder is against raising the minimum wage. He`s a fast food guy who is against the minimum wage, which to me is the very opposite of what a Labor Secretary ought to be about. So I mean--

HAYES: So, then, but, OK, but then how do you operationalize that, right? Obviously you`re in the House, not the Senate, the Senate is going to hold these confirmation hearings, but presumably the party is having conversations about how the Democratic Party on Capitol Hill deals with this.

I mean, there are ways that your colleagues in the senate really can obstruct, they can fight, they cannot allow voice votes, they can call for roll call votes, they can make these hearings go for a while. Do you think they should do all that?

ELLISON: Absolutely I do, because, look, in the very beginning right when Trump won, everyone said, some folks in leadership said we`re going to be nice, we`re not going to try to obstruct him from the moment he won like the Republicans did to Obama. We`ll give him a chance.

But when they got that chance, the first thing they did is got Bannon in there, openly white supremacist guy, openly alt-right.

Then the next thing they do is start filling up with, you know, one guy who is a foreclosure king at Treasury, the other person who is against public education to be head of Education. They`ve had their chance. It`s time for us to fight.

And it`s not about Democrats and Republicans; it`s about Donald Trump versus the American people. The people he promised he was going to be fighting for he`s actually fighting against, and I think it`s our duty to not give any quarter at this point with these nominees.

HAYES: Congressman you were endorsed by the AFL-CIO today for your role as DNC Chair. I want to ask you Haim Saban, or -- had a very strong words about you. He called you an anti-Semite. He is a very prominent donor to the Democratic Party, a strong supporter of the Israeli government in all its affairs. The ADL, the Anti-Defamation League has said comments you made in the past, 20 years ago in some cases, that you`ve since apologized for were disqualifying.

I want you to respond to being called and Anti-Semite, being told by the ADL that those comments you made 20 years ago are disqualifying.

ELLISON: Let me tell you, there has never been a moment in my life when I wasn`t fighting for every single person of every kind of background, race, color, creed, religion. And I will be fighting for those things now. I am fully in favor, I believe, in the United States` relationship with the state of Israel. I believe that all people have to have respect. And I`m a fierce, anti-anti-Semite, and always have been.

So, I think we should move into what the issues really are, which is what kind of country Trump is trying to make for us. That`s the issue, right?

You know, I mean, a few weeks ago there was a celebration by Neo-Nazi groups that were making sieg heil salutes. Those people are the ones we better be concerned about.

You know, I am an ally of all human beings and always have been. These smears, you know, let me tell you. John Kerry is a brave man. He is not deserved to be Swiftboated. You know, I`ll tell you, Barack Obama is actually an American. And, you know, bottom line is these smears, we`re going to turn away from them and focus the attention where it ought to be, the best interests of the American people and the threat that the Trump administration poses to them.

HAYES: All right, Congressman Keith Ellison, thanks for your time tonight.

That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now.