Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: December 2, 2016 Guest: Sabrina Siddiqui, Jared Bernstein, Paul Butler, Bernie Sanders, Teena Colebrook
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on ALL IN.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don`t want to tell you this.
HAYES: Billionaires, right-wing nationalists, and now Generals.
TRUMP: We are going to appoint "Mad Dog" Mattis as our Secretary of Defense.
HAYES: Tonight, Rachel Maddow on the one massive catch in Trump`s pick for Secretary of Defense.
And the insane implications of Trump throwing 40 years of U.S. foreign policy overboard with one phone call to Taiwan. Plus --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: The hypocrisy would be really funny if it wasn`t so sad.
HAYES: Senator Bernie Sanders on the plutocrats stocking Trump`s Cabinet and team Trump embracing the post-truth era.
SCOTTY NELL HUGHES (through phone): There`s no such thing unfortunately, anymore, of facts.
HAYES: What to do when you`re President doesn`t always mean what he says.
TRUMP: And then they played my statement, and I said, "Carrier will never leave," but that was a euphemism.
HAYES: And ALL IN starts right now.
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. In 49 days, Donald Trump will become President of these United States. And today, Trump broke with 37 years of U.S. policy, holding a phone call that could lead to a massive diplomatic dispute with nuclear armed China. Rachel Maddow will be here to discuss that in just a moment.
Meanwhile, last night, Trump announcing a crucial Cabinet pick, one that has prompted, frankly, sighs of relief in some corners but also comes with a massive catch. Trump tapping for Defense Secretary retired Marine General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, former chief of the U.S. Central Command which oversees military operations in the Middle East.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They say he`s the closest thing to General George Patton that we have, and it`s about time. It`s about time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: As the nickname "Mad Dog" would imply, Mattis who is widely respected in military circles is an extremely colorful character, famous for giving Marines advice like this, "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
In 2005, MSNBC News reported on Mattis joking about how he finds it fun to shoot people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JAMES MATTIS (RET), UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS: You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn`t wear a veil. You know guys like that ain`t got no manhood left anyway, so it`s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Mattis is probably the closest thing America has to a kind of tough talking General from the Hollywood blockbuster, which frankly may well be why Trump likes him. He was even dramatically portrayed in the HBO series, "Generation Kill," which based this scene on a real life event.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT JOHN BURKE, ACTOR: Godfather, hold your Marines back for now. When Colonel Dowdy here sees fit to (bleep) himself and push through this (bleep), I`ll turn First Recon loose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: While Trump says he doesn`t have time to read much, Mattis, who is often called a warrior monk, is an avid reader of military history, considers reading to be a crucial tool for the battlefield.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTIS: You stay teachable most by reading books, by reading what other people went through. I can`t tell you the number of times I looked down at what was going on the ground or I was engaged in a fight somewhere, and I knew within a couple of minutes how I was going to screw up the enemy. And I knew it because I had done so much reading. I knew what I was going to do because I`d seen other similar situations in the readings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The Obama administration cut Mattis` leadership of CentCom short 2013 due, in large part, to his hawkish stance on Iran, which he has called the greatest threat to Middle East peace. But, crucially, Mattis has also said there is -- and I`m quoting here -- "no going back" on the Iran nuclear deal that Trump has pledged to dismantle.
In addition, Mattis is a staunch critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin, who Trump repeatedly praised on the campaign trail, accusing Putin of trying to, quote, "break NATO apart." And Mattis sought to talk Trump out of the illegal torture technique known as waterboarding which Trump has vowed to bring back, along with, quote, "a hell of a lot worse."
Here`s Trump recounting some of their conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I met with him at length and I asked him that question. I said, what do you think of waterboarding? He said -- I was surprised. He said, "I`ve never found it to be useful." He said, "I`ve always found -- give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple beers and I do better with that than I do with torture."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: So that`s some encouraging news about Mattis for Trump skeptics, but as I mentioned, there is a massive catch. Mattis can only become Secretary of Defense if Congress changes a law designed, at its core, to protect the very idea of liberal democracy. That law states that a person may not be appointed as Secretary of Defense within seven years after relief from active duty as a commissioned officer of a regular component of an armed force. Mattis retired in 2013, which means he was on active duty less than four years ago, and Congress must pass a waiver to let him become Secretary of Defense.
The only other time that ever happened was in 1950, when Harry Truman nominated General George Marshall for the position. At that time, Congress said it was "the sense" of lawmakers that "no additional appointments of military men to that office shall be approved." And they had a good reason for that. It is a core idea in the rule of democracy that the military be subordinate to civilian control, and this waiting period between active duty service is meant to reinforce that.
I mean, imagine for a moment how this would look to us if it were another country, a populist nationalist candidate wins an election with minority votes, promptly fills his Cabinet with plutocrats, and has the law changed so he can install a General to oversee a military meant to be under civilian control.
Fears of what that could lead to prompted Senator Kirsten Gillibrand to say she would oppose a waiver for Mattis. Gillibrand, saying in a statement, "Civilian control over our military is a fundamental principle of American democracy, and I will not vote for an exemption to this rule."
And joining me now, Rachel Maddow, host of "The Rachel Maddow Show," who`s the person that I wanted to talk to most about this because, personally, I`m impressed by a lot of things people say about Mattis --
RACHEL MADDOW, HOST, THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW: Yes.
HAYES: -- and also persuaded a bit about the core reason that we have this.
MADDOW: Right. And, you know, it`s a hard and fast principle. The way the rule has been applied, it hasn`t been hard and fast.
HAYES: Right, right.
MADDOW: There was a 10-year rule and they made that exception for George Marshall, and then now it`s a seven-year rule and he`s been out since 2013.
MADDOW: So the number of years that he`s been out, it`s not like he`s coming direct from the camp.
HAYES: That`s true, yes.
MADDOW: So that`s an interesting part of it. But I do feel like the thing that I most want is I would like to hear Donald Trump alone. Without anybody else to help him, I would like to hear from him why he believes it is important to have civilian control of the military. I want to know if he understands --
HAYES: What is the breach?
MADDOW: -- what`s at cost.
HAYES: Right, exactly.
MADDOW: What`s the cost of doing this?
HAYES: Right. That`s a great point. And the other thing that unnerves me a little bit is this will be the first thing that happens where it`s like, we`re bending the rules for Donald Trump.
MADDOW: Yes, exactly.
HAYES: Right? It`s like, well, we`ve got this norm and we`ve got this thing, but we control all of Congress and Donald Trump wants this guy and a lot of people who do not like Donald Trump are, like, a little relieved.
HAYES: So it`s like, OK, we`ll bend this here.
MADDOW: And Democrats are in a very interesting position because if Democrats stood unified on this, they could deny this waiver to Mattis. There are enough Democrats that they could stop this from happening. If they filibustered it, they could keep it from happening. That said, Mattis is, by far, not the most controversial person --
HAYES: That`s exactly right.
MADDOW: -- that Trump is appointing. If this were an equivalent of, you know, the Jeff Sessions` nomination or this Mnuchin nomination or something, somebody who is, like, manifestly inappropriate for the job that Donald Trump was putting this person up for, I think you`d see Democrats line up behind this right away.
MADDOW: But I don`t think they`re going to oppose Mattis substantively, and so it`s a question of whether they`re going to really get behind this principle. And I would love to hear Democrats fight about this. I would love to hear, even --
HAYES: An articulation of what the stakes are. Yes, I totally agree.
MADDOW: -- even if Trump can`t articulate it, and I want to know if he can, I would love to hear Democrats talk about why it`s important that we don`t have the military as a potential source of a hunta in this country.
MADDOW: You know, I believe that the founders really structurally disinclined us toward war when they set up this country, and part of that was giving the military to a civilian leader --
HAYES: That`s right.
MADDOW: -- who could use then the military as only one of the tools that he or she had for solving the nation`s problems. If the military is hived off from that decision process, then every problem --
HAYES: Becomes --
MADDOW: -- you know, looks like a nail and --
HAYES: That`s right.
MADDOW: -- and that hammer is all well-suited for every one of them.
HAYES: Since we`re talking about military solutions, I want to also talk about the possibly slow moving diplomatic crisis that was initiated today.
MADDOW: The new war with China?
HAYES: So --
HAYES: OK. Well, China has got what`s called the "One China" policy in which they don`t recognize Taiwan.
HAYES: The U.S. also does not recognize Taiwan, though we sell them weapons so there`s this sort of weird wink, wink, nudge, nudge. There`s all this protocol around it because the Chinese are extremely touchy about this. We have not talked directly with the Chinese leader in 37 years, and then we just found out today, like, in the middle of the afternoon from "Financial Times," oh, yes, Donald Trump talked to the elected President of Taiwan.
MADDOW: Of Taiwan. Yes.
HAYES: Which is a huge, huge, huge, huge change --
HAYES: -- in the posture of American diplomacy.
MADDOW: And there`s a couple ways to see this, and I honestly don`t know which one is scarier. I`m going to have Chris Murphy on my show later on to tonight about this.
HAYES: Yes. I want to see that.
MADDOW: And he`s been very Johnny-on-the-spot on this right away. But either Donald Trump has no idea --
MADDOW: -- what a big deal it is that he just called the President of Taiwan, and that`s because he just, you know, hither and thither called the President of Taiwan.
HAYES: Right, because --
MADDOW: Or because somebody else, who recognizes he doesn`t understand the implications of it, used him as a vessel and got him to do this, somebody who wanted that provocation and knew it and then talked him into it. Those ideas are very scary, that he unwittingly did this.
The other possibility is that he willingly did this, that he knew that this was going to be one of the biggest changes in American foreign policy since you and I have been alive, and he wanted to do it as a surprise to everyone with no warning, with no support, with no notice to either the State Department or the White House.
HAYES: They`re not talking to the State Department. He`s not taking, as far as we can tell, most of his intelligence briefings. We don`t know if these phone calls are happening on secured lines.
HAYES: Well, we don`t know if --
MADDOW: If his kids are in on it them.
HAYES: We should also note -- he tweeted, "The President of Taiwan CALLED ME," all caps, "today to wish me congratulations on winning the Presidency." We should note, you`re not --
MADDOW: You don`t --
HAYES: I mean, again, the U.S. actually officially doesn`t even say "the government of Taiwan." It says, "the government on Taiwan."
MADDOW: "On" Taiwan.
HAYES: It`s how carefully -- and, again, I think people could watch this and be like, this is ridiculous. And on a certain level, it is. It`s the kind of ridiculousness that maybe keeps wars from happening, frankly.
HAYES: Like, it`s the kind of sort of wink, wink, nudge, nudge that happens. We should also say this, he says they called me, the Taiwanese press reported that the call was arranged by him.
MADDOW: By him?
HAYES: By people on his staff.
MADDOW: By pro-Taiwan forces in the Trump staff. I mean, I am resistant as a person to sort of personality-driven analysis of different foreign leaders and American leaders. I just don`t buy it. The one thing that I have to say I`m worried about is, if Donald Trump doesn`t have preferences, knowledge, or curiosity about a lot of important things, there will be people around him who do, who use him as a vehicle to accomplish stuff that he may not even understand the magnitude of while he`s doing it.
MADDOW: This feels like the first thing since he`s been President-elect that he may have -- I mean, even him just saying that the president of Taiwan called me, like that changes at all the fact that he spoke to the President of Taiwan.
HAYES: Like, sort of, what`s the big deal? What`s the big deal?
MADDOW: That if he doesn`t get it and other people around him do --
HAYES: That`s standard. Yes.
MADDOW: -- John Bolton was at Trump Tower today, you know. Like, was this a John Bolton joint?
MADDOW: There`s a reason John Bolton was never confirmed under even George W. Bush.
MADDOW: It`s because he was too radical and unstable to hold a position of power. He has not been nominated to anything by Donald Trump. But if by being a gadfly around the transition, he has just caused the biggest rift with the most powerful nation on earth other than us in 40 years, and Trump had no idea he was bungling into it?
MADDOW: Then we have a structural problem with the ignorance of the President-elect that`s not going to get better when this is cleaned up.
HAYES: Right. Although you`d hope that they`re going to start talking to people, I mean, at State. And we should say, also, the White House basically have to sort of walk this back, reaffirm its commitment to the "One China" Policy. There is a one President at a time rule for a reason, so that you don`t have situations like this in which the President-elect is conducting foreign policy that is directly contradictory to the stated policy of the President of the United States.
MADDOW: Right. And, you know, as far as we know, not only did the White House have no heads up about this, the State Department not only didn`t brief about this. The State Department had no idea this was happening.
HAYES: Didn`t know it was happening.
MADDOW: The United States in terms of our foreign policy has just been compromised because, now, we have taken two different public stances on something that is honestly -- I`m not overstating it -- one of the most radical shifts in foreign policy in a generation. Nobody had any warning, nobody is ready to start to clean this up, and nobody knows what the implications of it are going to be on ongoing stuff we`ve got under discussion with China, literally today, while Obama is still supposed to be the President.
HAYES: Rachel Maddow, it`s great to have you. I`m going to watch your show. Chris Murphy was tweeting today, and he`s just such a sort of singularly level-headed voice on foreign policy out there.
MADDOW: He`s the new voice of the Democratic Party on foreign policy.
HAYES: Yes, absolutely.
MADDOW: I would call him centrist and moderate on those issues but with a progressive heart, and he has been very smart on this issue, very, I think, reserved.
MADDOW: And I really want to hear what he has to say about it tonight.
HAYES: I do too. I`ll see you later.
MADDOW: Thanks, my friend.
HAYES: Thanks for coming.
MADDOW: Appreciate it.
HAYES: Still to come, Donald Trump admits he was surprised people took a campaign promise at his word. A Trump surrogate says, there`s no such thing as facts, literally said that. Truth from the Trump era ahead.
Plus, more from my exclusive interview with Senator Bernie Sanders on Trump`s Cabinet filling up with billionaires and bankers. That`s right after this two-minute break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I`m not going to let Wall Street get away with murder. Wall Street has caused tremendous problems for us. We`re going to tax Wall Street. We`re going to get rid of certain things that they should have -- you know I`ve been talking about it very strongly -- certain things that they want, and they want them badly, and it`s not fair to give it to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Candidate Trump criticized Wall Street, but President-elect Trump just picked a Wall Street executive for one of the most powerful positions in his Cabinet. Treasury Secretary nominee Steven Mnuchin spent 17 years at Goldman Sachs before he became a hedge fund manager. And Senator Bernie Sanders had plenty to say about that when I got the chance to ask him about Trump`s Cabinet picks.
Senator, we`re starting to see the Cabinet come together, and you`ve got Betsy DeVos who`s worth about $5 billion, Wilbur Ross who`s worth about $3 billion, Todd Ricketts who`s worth a billion, Steve Mnuchin, Treasury Secretary, who`s worth $40 million, and then you got a vastly under --
SANDERS: Only $40 million?
HAYES: I know. I know. He`s piker.
SANDERS: And he got into the Cabinet?
HAYES: I know. Well, here`s, I mean --
SANDERS: Well, I`m really quite shocked at poor people being able to get into the Cabinet.
HAYES: It is pretty remarkable. I mean, you know, this is pretty unprecedented, this sort of plutocratic titans being named to these positions.
SANDERS: No, what`s --
HAYES: Some of them have zero experience.
SANDERS: Chris, Chris. I mean, we`re in Trump world right now and what we have to understand is we`re at the show business. And that means that what you said during the campaign -- you know, you said that we are going to not cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and then you appoint the Congressman Price --
HAYES: Congressman Price, yes.
SANDERS: -- to the head of HHS, who has made his life`s work cutting Medicare. You talked about you`re going to be tough on Wall Street, then you appoint a Wall Street insider to be Secretary of the Treasury. You talked about being tough on the establishment, oh, yes, we`re going to take on the whole establishment, and you appoint the entire establishment to your Cabinet. The hypocrisy would be really funny if it wasn`t so sad in terms of the implications of what it means for working people in this country.
HAYES: You know, Steve Mnuchin is someone who was at Goldman Sachs. You know, he bought a distressed property, IndyMac, renamed it and then foreclosed a lot of people, which, I suppose, is one`s right in the world of American financial capitalism. But what would you like to hear? Would you like to hear him explain himself in those confirmation hearings?
SANDERS: Well, I think there will be some members of the Senate who will demand that he explain himself. You know, Trump talked about, as you`ll remember, Chris, re-establishing Glass-Steagall, holding Wall Street accountable. Well, we are going to demand that this nominee explain to us exactly how he intends to do that. But the hypocrisy of what Trump said during the campaign and the kind of appointments that he`s making now is really quite laughable.
HAYES: I mean, I`ve been talking to people, sources of mine. As you know I`ve reported on finance for a while and I know people on Wall Street. I mean, there`s this kind of people sort of looking around and saying, hey, this is actually looking pretty awesome. Like, we weren`t quite sure, but there`s a sort of mood. I mean, you see it on business networks, you hear it from folks on Wall Street.
SANDERS: Right. But --
HAYES: Like, the good times are here.
SANDERS: They are catching on to what Mitt Romney said a while back in describing Mr. Trump. He said, Donald Trump is a fraud and a phony. And now, I think the folks on Wall Street and in corporate America are, you know, giving a sign of relief because, in fact, it turned out to be true. Forget about everything that he said during the campaign, how he`s going to take on the establishment. He is going to reward his billionaire friends, and the middle class and working class of this country is in for some very, very rough times.
HAYES: So how do you -- here`s my question. When you set it against the backdrop, I mean, of this Carrier sort of victory tour, right, are you confident that you could communicate the reality of what`s actually going to happen if people are getting Medicaid cuts, if Medicare`s being privatized, if corporate tax rate goes down to 15 percent? Can you communicate the reality through the kind of spectacle?
SANDERS: Well, this is why we need to radically reform the Democratic Party because I would say that, yesterday, the Democratic Party would be unable to do that because they`re grassroots approach was negligible. But I think what we have got to do now is create a strong grassroots movement, which is why I`m supporting Keith Ellison to be chair of the Democratic Party, and rally the American people.
The elderly have got to know that, right now, Medicare is in danger, that they want to privatize Medicare, voucherize Medicare. Workers have got to know that, despite all of Trump`s rhetoric about raising the minimum wage or standing up to corporate America in terms of outsourcing, that was just campaign nonsense. He`s not going to do that. So we have got to rally many, many millions of people to tell Mr. Trump that we are going to hold him accountable. He is not going to get away with double-crossing the middle class of this country.
HAYES: All right, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Thanks for your time tonight, appreciate it.
SANDERS: Thank you.
HAYES: Coming up, we`ll talk to a woman who voted for Trump because she thought he would do something about the moneyed interest in Washington. It turns out Trump`s pick for Treasury Secretary ran a bank that foreclosed on her home. So join me next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE MNUCHIN, NOMINEE FOR U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY SECRETARY: What I`ve really been focused on is being a regional banker for the last eight years, and I know what it takes to make sure that we can make loans to small and mid-market companies. And that`s going to be our big focus, making sure we scale bag regulation so that we make sure the banks are lending.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Treasury Secretary nominee Steve Mnuchin has zero public policy experience, but when asked about his credentials this week, he touted his experience running a bank. That bank, IndyMac based in California, according to "Wall Street Journal," was the second largest bank failure of the financial crisis, surpassed only by Washington Mutual.
Now, the bank was renamed One West and Mnuchin and his investors bought it. And he profited while executing nearly 40,000 foreclosures by some estimates. As "Politico" reports, that same year, a Florida resident, Ossie Lofton, who had taken a reverse mortgage, the company foreclosed on the 90-year-old Lofton after a 27-cent payment error.
Now, today, "Associated Press" highlighted the story of Trump voter Teena Colebrook. Mnuchin`s bank, One West, had foreclosed on her Los Angeles- area home, stripping her of the two units she rented as a primary source of income. Mnuchin and his investors eventually sold the bank for $3.4 billion.
Joining me now is Teena Colebrook. Miss Colebrook, can you tell me, when you went through the foreclosure, were you familiar with the bank and who was running the bank?
TEENA COLEBROOK, DONALD TRUMP VOTER: Yes, I was.
HAYES: And did you know who Mnuchin was?
COLEBROOK: Yes, I did.
HAYES: Did you develop a feeling about how you were treated by the bank during that process?
COLEBROOK: Appalling, like all of us were. It was just one flat-out lie after another. We weren`t treated like people. We were just a number to them who they wanted to foreclose on in every which way they could. They just would not work with any of us after false promises, after leading us into foreclosure, saying that we had to be three months behind in our mortgage payment before they would even think of helping us. That`s a lie which most of us found out too late.
HAYES: This is something that happened to thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands, millions of people in which they were told by banks that you had to be late on payments so that you could qualify for a loan modification, and then once you went late on a payment, they then foreclosed on you?
COLEBROOK: They foreclosed on us. They added hundreds of thousands sometimes in fees, illegal fees. They had sloppy accounting. The amount they stated I owed varied in three months, by $130,000 in three months.
HAYES: So let me ask you this, you voted for Donald Trump. Tell me what drew you to him, why you voted for him.
COLEBROOK: Like many of the people I`m in touch with who were foreclosed on by Mnuchin, we voted for Trump because we were fed up, like the most of America, with the politics as it is. We`re fed up with the government and all those elected officials who were elected to serve the people, but they really only are serving themselves. They, you know, vote in special, you know, compensation for themselves, everything. They`re not really working for us. It`s all lip service.
And we believed Trump would be an outsider, for the first time, who would work for the people like his campaign promised. He said he would -- "my only special interest," he`s quoted as saying, "is to you, the American people, not major donors, the Party, or corporations." Now, we want him to prove it. He said he was going to drain the swamp. Now, he`s filling it with alligators like Mnuchin. We want him to prove he will drain the swamp.
HAYES: Having voted for him and having gone through this with Mnuchin`s bank, when you saw the Mnuchin news, what was your reaction?
COLEBROOK: I was sick, disgusted. I talked to a lot of other people. The same way, they just couldn`t believe that he would hire someone who is known as a foreclosure king, who has committed so much forgery, fraud on, you know, the working class people. He`s foreclosed on far more than 40,000 homes. And, you know, he labels us vexatious litigants when really, they are vexatious foreclosers.
He labels us deadbeats. Even the press really has labeled us deadbeats. We`re not. I talked to a vice president of a bank who One West foreclosed on and stole over a million dollars of equity. I`ve talked to doctors, to lawyers, to dentists, all professional people, all got taken in.
COLEBROOK: And if a banker can be foreclosed on by a bank, that`s incredible and disgusting.
HAYES: So let me ask you this, do you feel like you were played? Do you feel like you were hoodwinked?
COLEBROOK: I think, yes, in some instances. I understand that he`s got to, you know, bring in a good team. But this one? There`s plenty of qualified people out there who are not Wall Street insiders, who are not billionaires that were made billionaires off the backs of the working class people. The alternative wasn`t great either, and there`s no way I would have voted the other way for Hillary, but Mr. Trump needs to follow through on his campaign promises and prove to the American people that what he said, he will follow through on. No billionaire insiders and no Goldman Sachs people. This is wrong.
HAYES: All right. Teena --
COLEBROOK: We`re angry, and we`re watching him.
HAYES: Teena Colebrook, I really, really appreciate you taking the time tonight. Thank you very much.
COLEBROOK: Thank you.
HAYES: Coming up, a lone juror says he cannot convict the former police officer facing charges for the shooting death of Walter Scott. The latest on the deadlocked jury, apparently deadlocked jury, after this break.
HAYES: Over a year and a half since Walter Scott was fatally shot in North Charleston, South Carolina by police officer Michael Slater. The jury in Slater`s murder trial is at an impasse. They`ve been deliberating since Wednesday night. Today, the jury foreperson informed the court that a single juror was blocking them from reaching a unanimous decision.
In a note to the court, a lone juror said, quote, I cannot in good conscience consider a guilty verdict. I cannot and will not change my mind.
The case gained nationwide attention thanks to video taken by a bystander. Showing Slater shooting Scott from behind as Scott ran away.
The jury watched the tape during the trial and we`re going to show you the key part for you now. The first time we`ve aired it since it originally went public. Be warned, the video is disturbing.
HAYES: The jury has now asked for more time to deliberate and will reconvene Monday morning at 9:00 a.m.
Not long ago, members of Scott`s family responded to the latest developments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY SCOTT, BROTHER OF WALTER SCOTT: It`s been a long day. It`s been a tough day, but it`s not over. And we do believe within our heart that we will see justice for my brother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I`m joined now by former federal prosecutor Paul Butler. And, Paul, I guess -- let me start with this. I have never heard of a juror writing a letter saying they can`t in good conscience vote for a guilty verdict., which seems very late in the game to make that decision.
PAUL BUTLER, FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, first of all I`ve never heard of a juror, a lone juror communicating with the court, that`s the work of the foreperson of the jury.
So, first, when we think about the evidence in this case, again, we have a video of a man running away from the officer, the officer shoots him in the back, and then says it was self-defense. That`s not plausible, which is why 11 jurors, 10 of whom we need to note are white, one African-American, say there`s no reasonable doubt.
So, again, what should happen? They`re having a conversation. They tell this juror, it`s not about your conscience, it`s about the law. Apply the law.
HAYES: So you think, in the courtroom earlier today, because they all convened. They came back. We`d been getting news alerts saying that they are deadlocked. And the law in South Carolina is that the judge can`t send them back a third time. He can send them back twice. He can`t send them back and take a third time without the foreperson agreeing to it.
And the foreperson did agree, because clearly they think they`re able to convince this person who is communicated that they`re unconvinceable.
BUTLER: Maybe they can.
So, Chris, mad props to these jurors. No lawyer wants to have a jury out on Friday night. Because what they say is, let`s just decide this case. These jurors say, you know what, in our system, 12 people have to agree, we think that that`s still possible. And statistically, it is.
You know, we have this myth about one angry man holding up a jury. That`s very, very rare. Because, again, the jury system is one of the shiny parts of our democracy, so there`s something about these 12 people coming together, it may take a while, but often usually they reach a unanimous verdict.
HAYES: So, that`s interesting here, you say that. I also have to say that folks watching this, and who have been following police and police shootings of civilians, whether armed or unarmed, I mean, there`s a broad spectrum of these cases, some of which, seem really, really. We really don`t know what happened, some of which seemed one could really understand why a police office would be terrified. And then at the furthest end of the spectrum, I`ve got to say, of all the cases. We have video evidence of the officer shooting a man.
And then apparently trying to plant evidence afterwards, what does it say to you that this is not -- that we`re at this point of the possibility of a hung jury?
BUTLER: It says that if prosecutors can`t get a conviction in this case where you have it on tape in the back from 18 feet, no plausible defense, when will an officer ever be brought to justice? This is as close as it gets to a slam dunk as any case against a police officer that I`ve seen.
HAYES: Yeah, Paul Butler. As always, thank for you time. Appreciate it.
BUTLER: Great to be here.
HAYES: Still to come, what happens when the president-elect doesn`t always mean what he says. One Trump surrogate suggesting there is no such thing as facts any more. We`ll talk about that ahead.
But first a super secret surprise visitor at Trump Tower today. We`ll explain in Thing One, Thing Two next.
HAYES: Thing One tonight, an unexpected appearance from New Jersey Governor Chris Christie at Trump Tower today. The press didn`t know he was going to be there until he walked out the elevator with Kellyanne Conway.
Still no word on exactly what he was doing there, considering that ever since he was booted as chair of Donald Trump`s presidential transition team, and it began looking like he would not be in the running for a cabinet post, Christie had embarked on a campaign of sorts to let New Jerseyians know he is absolutely fully committed to them, that they can count on him to serve out the rest of his term.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: I have no reason to believe as we stand here today, that I will do anything other than serve out my full term as governor.
I have said to the president-elect, reminded him that I have 14 months left in my term, and it`s my desire to finish my term.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: In a press conference on Tuesday, Christie further hammered home his decision to focus on his attention of the state where he presides as governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: I want to tell you, I have said and for some reason, people think I`m equivocal about this, and I`m not. I am completing my term. Everybody take a deep breath. I have told you all from the beginning that it was my intention to serve my entire term. I told you that after I got out of the presidential race. That was the job I really wanted after this one, that was not made available to me by the voters of Iowa and New Hampshire. And so I came back to work and I`ve been at work ever since. And I`ll continue to be at work from now until January 18 of 2018.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: But just days after that press conference surprise, New Jersey, it looks like Chris Christie has just found another job he wants, and that`s Thing Two in 60 seconds. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: Earlier this week, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie told his constituents he would be serving on his full term, and since he lost the presidential race and wasn`t chosen as vice president, he`ll be back at work in Jersey until January 2018.
So, can you guess what happened less than 48 hours later? Christie throws his hat in the ring for RNC Chair. That`s what three campaign sources told Politico. One person said the governor had embarked on an aggressive full court press in hopes of getting the chairmanship.
Now, if Christie were to be picked as RNC chair, he could still continue to serve as New Jersey governor. But would it mean -- what would it mean for his day job?
Well, in 2014, the the first full year he served as chair of the Republican governor`s association, he spent over a third of the year out of state, 137 days.
In 2015 as RGA chair and then presidential candidate, Christie spent 190 full days not in New Jersey, 52 percent of the year. And if you count partial days, that jumps to 72 percent of the year outside his own state. And that`s something that is unlikely to change as he`s selected as RNC chair.
You know what, it almost seems like Christie is willing to do anything to avoid his own state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as the issue on climate change, the only thing he was saying is after being asked a few questions about it, look, I`ll have an open mind about it, but he has his default position, which is that most of it is a bunch of bunk, but he`ll have an open mind and listen to people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Incoming White House chief of staff last week clarifying what our next president`s default position is on climate change that most of it is a bunch of bunk.
Trump holds this position in a year that is currently on track to be the hottest in record, the hottest in 136 years of data keeping.
And nowhere is warming faster than the Arctic. It is warming twice as fast as the rest of the planet. This year, the temperatures in the Arctic are off the charts. According to models from the Danish Meteorological Institute, here`s what the average Arctic temperature looked like in 2004 compared to average data.
Now, here`s what that same chart looked like in 2008 see it creeping away from the average. Here`s what it looked like in 2012. And here`s you see it creeping away from the average. Here`s what it looked like in 2012, and here`s what it looks like in 2016. Yes, that. Temperatures appear to be way above the average. Arctic even at one point actually getting warmer instead of colder in October and November. Just two weeks ago, the North Pole was 36 degrees warmer than normal.
It`s so warm that right now the sea ice is at a record low. Here`s the Arctic sea ice extent in the area of ocean with at least 15 percent sea ice from 1979 through 2015. And here`s what the Arctic sea ice looks like this year. Ready for it?
The ice levels are meant to steadily rise as winter arises, But it`s been rising, then stalling, even plateauing through the fall. Much of that sea ice is young ice, thin ice. Older ice, ice that`s existed for four years is on the decline as evidenced by this NASA animation showing sea ice levels over the last 32 years. The difference between 1984 and 2016 is stark.
Images like this, data like this, is how we try to understand what is happening on the planet and what is happening as the climate changes. And yet the same agency that made those images and gathered that data is now reportedly the crosshairs of the president-elect.
Senior Trump campaign adviser telling The Guardian, we see NASA in an exploration role and deep space research Earth-centric science is better placed at other agencies where it is their prime mission.
So, NASA would be limited to exploring other planets rather than providing satellite information and data about what`s happening on the only planet we currently inhabit, a planet that is warmer than it`s been in 136 years of record keeping.
But, really, what does data matter when you think that climate change is, quote, a bunch of bunk.
HAYES: We seem to be entering a new era in American politics with a president-elect who seems willfully unconcerned with the truthfulness of his own statements. For example, claiming last night that people from the Middle East are currently pouring into the U.S. and tweeting recently that millions voted illegally in the presidential election, both of those claims are false, which is to say not factual.
In an interview on NPR on Wednesday one of Trump`s surrogates, Scottie Nell Hughes, laid out the clearest statement of principle I`ve heard to date of the Trumpian worldview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTTIE NELL HUGHEST, TRUMP SURROGATE: One thing that`s been interesting this entire campaign season to watch is that people that say facts are facts, they`re not really facts. Everybody has a way, it`s kind of like looking at ratings, or looking at a glass of half full water, everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth or not true. There`s no such thing, unfortunately, anymore of facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: There`s no such thing, unfortunately anymore, as facts.
We got a different version of that thesis from Corey Lewandowski, Trump`s one-time campaign manager during a forum yesterday at Havard. He insisted the media is at fault for assuming Trump knows what he`s talking about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FRM. TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: You guys took everything Donald Trump said so literally. And the problem with that is the American people didn`t. And they understood it. They understood that sometimes when you have a conversation with people, whether it`s around the dinner table or it`s at the bar or it`s wherever it is, you have to say something and maybe you don`t have all the facts to back that up, but that`s how the American people live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Trump appears to hold a similarly open-ended view of the things he himself says. As he recounted yesterday, it wasn`t until he saw a guy on the news who is taking seriously his pledge to keep Carrier jobs in the U.S., that Trump actually decided he meant it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They had a gentleman, worker, great guy, handsome guy, he was on. And it was like he didn`t even know they were leaving. He said, something to the effect, no, we`re not leaving, because Donald Trump promised us that we`re not leaving.
And I never thought I made that promise.
And I`m saying to myself, man. And then they played my statement. And I said, Carrier will never leave, but that was a euphemism. I was talking about Carrier like all other companies from here on in. Because they made the decision a year and a half ago.
So, now, because of him, whoever that guy was, is he in the room by any chance?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: hat`s my son.
TRUMP: That`s your son, stand up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, Jared Bernstein, former chief economist and economic policy adviser to vice president Joe Biden, and Sabrina Siddiqui, political reporter with The Guardian.
And Jared, let me start with you, because you know today we got a bunch of economic news and...
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIST: Facts.
HAYES: Facts, right.
And I mean, I think there`s -- you know, there was always this sense I think the Obama administration had, which was that reality will out that if the economy performs and people get back to work, if manufacturing jobs increase from where they were at the lowest point as they have in in the state of Indiana, that will ultimately be what controls. It`s not clear they were right about that.
BERNSTEIN: Yes, the unemployment rate hit 4.6 percent. That`s a nine year low. Donald Trump during the campaign said the unemployment rate was 40 percent. So, you know, I got to say, what Corey Lewandowski was just saying actually is worth listening to and parsing a bit. Some of what Donald Trump says when he lies is actually his version of a truth that is, a, incorrect, but b, resonates with people in a way that`s worth appreciating.
So, yes, the unemployment rate is below 5 percent. But actually a lot of people feel like they face a very tough economy, and in fact they do. And where they are, the unemployment rate could easily be twice that. In fact, it is twice that for many minorities.
So, one type of Donald Trump`s lies are actually him sort of communicating a sentiment with people that we would do well to listen to.
But the problem is there`s a set of policy lies, and they are ultimately not going to work for him, I predict. So, when Donald Trump says, I can get rid of the Affordable Care Act and your health care will be better and cheaper, and you`ll have more affordable coverage or we can voucherize Medicaid -- we can voucherize Medicare. We can privatize Medicare, we can turn Medicaid into a block grant and it`s going to be great, it`s going to be much better for you, if that`s the path they go down, those falsehoods will come back and stare them right in the face, because now you`re really hurting a lot of people.
And the media`s going to have to do its job to find those people and put cameras in front of them. But that`s a whole different kind of falsehood in my view.
HAYES: Sabrina, the interesting thing about what Corey Lewandowski said is you get the sense from the Trump folks that, look, he says a lot of stuff, and maybe some of it doesn`t check out with your fact checkers. But he won the election and ergo in some weird way, it`s like might makes right, so like that stuff is true because he won.
SABRINA SIDDIQUI, THE GUARDIAN: Well, look, I think that we are going to need accountability journalism now more than we have before. And the media is going to have to take measures that they perhaps have not taken with previous administrations, because you have to learn some lessons from this past campaign. And I think I`m saying this as a member of the media, it starts with doing some introspection about where we could have done better.
And you have with Donald Trump someone who for the first year of his candidacy, essentially benefited from $2 billion in earned media, his rallies were certainly played unfiltered. You had surrogates who were able to have air time and make absolutely baseless claims. And yes, they were challenged, but the fact that they were without any credentials other than supporting Donald Trump, enabled to present certain arguments before millions of people.
There were people watching at home, thinking, oh that Trump surrogate makes some good points even though these are conspiratorial views.
There may be headlines now that have to be published that just say Donald Trump falsely claims X and then you -- the story very much leads, not just with the fact that he claimed something, but with why it`s wrong.
I think that, you know, we have to be willing to do that, otherwise we`re part of the problem.
HAYES: Yeah, but there was a lot of that in the last few months of the campaign, and it`s hard to see what good it did.
SIDDIQUI: It was a little too little too late, you could argue. I think that, you know, it was kind of baked in that he had built this idea that the media`s not to be trusted. A lot of the people don`t trust the media. Perhaps if there was a little bit more of that accountability drills from the beginning.
I think there was from some factions, but you know, when you`re talking about someone who ran a 17 month campaign, the last few months, you could argue it was too little too late.
BERNSTEIN: It was important to see, the banner headline on The Times that Trump`s accusation about the voter fraud was in the headline portrayed as a lie. And that actually was a pretty important barrier that they crossed there, and I -- we need to see more of that.
HAYES: So, let me ask you this question, Jared on this policy standpoint, right. Because I keep thinking about a world in which, say, millions of people get kicked off the Affordable Care Act. And the question is do they believe that that`s because -- is there a world in which that happens and they still think that`s because Barack Obama screwed them?
BERNSTEIN: Well, not if we do our job.
And I mean, me as a policy analyst, and folks in your seats as well. And - - the likelihood of that being Obama`s problem in my view is very low. The president, like it or not, gets blamed and gets credit for a lot of things. And let me say, once Obama leaves the room, and these guys start voucherizing, privatizing Medicare, block granting Medicaid and get and repealing the ACA, believe me, there`s no way that you`re going to be able to make that -- I mean, they`re going to try to make that Obama`s problem, but I don`t see how they do.
HAYES: Jared Bernstein, Sabrina Siddiqui, thanks for your time. Appreciate it.
BERNSTEIN: Thank you.
HAYES: That is All In for this evening.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END