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All In With Chris Hayes, Transcript 11/4/2016

Guests: Gabe Sherman, Lynn Sweet, Heather McGhee, Fernand Amondi

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: November 4, 2016 Guest: Gabe Sherman, Lynn Sweet, Heather McGhee, Fernand Amondi

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HARDBALL HOST: ALL IN With Chris Hayes starts right now.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If somebody is not voting right now who is watching your program, you are voting for Donald Trump.

HAYES: Four days out, a President Obama exclusive.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Imagine if I, when I had been running, had said one tenth of the things that Donald Trump has said. People would have immediately said that person`s not qualified to be president.

HAYES: Tonight, the president in his own words on the FBI.

OBAMA: Our goal has been and should be that our investigators and our prosecutors, that they`re not used as a weapon.

HAYES: On voter turnout and on the fear of a Trump presidency.

OBAMA: I would feel deeply frustrated not because of anything he said about me but because I would fear for the future of our country.

HAYES: Plus, a stunning admission from Rudy.

RUDY GIULIANI, TRUMP SURROGATE: Did I hear about it? You`re darn right I heard about it.

HAYES: Tonight the question, did people inside the FBI tip off the Trump campaign about the Comey letter weeks in advance?

All that, plus, what we know about where the polls stand right now. And Jay Z and Hillary live in this hour from Ohio. When ALL IN starts right now.

HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. On this final Friday of the campaign, four days to Election Day, the presidential race is nearly as close as it has ever been. Tonight, Hillary Clinton`s campaigning in Cleveland with an assist from Jay Z maybe possibly according to rumors the "Queen B" herself, Beyonce.

That`s Sherrod Brown, Ted Strickland up on stage warming the crowd up, like the standard Jay Z concert. It`s Clinton`s third stop of the day in as many Battleground States. Part of the big push to turn out members of the Obama coalition, especially young people and African-Americans who so far, don`t appear to be turning out at least quite at the 2012 levels according to polls and early voting.

Those two groups in particular have been targeted by republican efforts to restrict or suppress voting egged on by Donald Trump`s unfounded warnings about voter fraud.

And today, elsewhere in Cleveland, a federal judge said he`ll issue a restraining order against both the Trump campaign and longtime Trump ally and associate, Roger Stone, barring them from harassing or intimidating voters at polling places on Tuesday. Trump campaign is appealing the ruling.

That case is one of several filed by democrats this week. Decisions are still pending in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Michigan, Nevada, and Arizona.

Meanwhile, Donald trump and his campaign continue to exploit and distort FBI Director James Comey`s vague disclosure last week of new Clinton- related e-mails with apparent help from people connected to the FBI itself.

Two nights ago on Fox News, host, Bret Baier announced the FBI`s investigation into the Clinton Foundation previously reported to have led nowhere was moving toward a likely indictment. That information, he said, came directly from two sources with intimate knowledge of the bureau`s Clinton-related work. But the next morning, Baier started to walk his story back a bit, and today, he all but retracted it.


BRENT BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: It was a mistake and for that I`m sorry. I should have said they will continue to build their case. Indictment obviously is a very loaded word, John, especially in this atmosphere and no one knows if there would or would not be an indictment no matter how strong investigators feel their evidence is.


HAYES: Even after the initial walk back, Trump continued to cite Baier`s report out on the stump yesterday. My colleague, Brian Williams, asked Trump campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway about it last night.


BRIAN WILLIAMS, MSNBC CHIEF ANCHOR: Will Donald Trump amend his stump speech to walk back the same thing?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, the damage is done to Hillary Clinton. And no matter how it`s being termed, the voters are hearing it for what it is; a culture of corruption.

You have responsible members of congress coming forward and saying based on what they know, and what they see and what they`re experience is, that we could just be living this nightmare from basically the moment she was elected or took office.


HAYES: Alright, just to be clear there. The point was the story was not true. Will your candidate amend that? And the answer was, the damage is done. So who cares what the truth is?

Sure enough, Trump was back on the campaign trail today, going way beyond Baier`s original and now essentially retracted report.


DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As you know, the FBI now has multiple open criminal investigations into Hillary Clinton.

She may now face major problems for perjury. She`ll be under investigation for years. She`ll be with trials.

The FBI agents say their investigation is likely to yield an indictment. Hillary has engaged in a massive criminal enterprise and cover-up. If she were to win, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis.


HAYES: OK. Again, I feel the need just to respond here. So, if it were the case that this was based on anything, it would have to be Baier`s report, which has been since essentially retracted. The perjury charges essentially just invented out of thin air as far as I can tell.

I mean, he is just calling her a criminal based on essentially no evidence at this point.

Now, if all the FBI leaks to the press weren`t bad enough, now it turns out people connected to the bureau may have been leaking directly to the Trump campaign.

Today, top Trump ally, Rudy Giuliani, a former prosecutor with many ties to law enforcement, publicly admitted he had advance knowledge of the FBI director`s announcement last week.


GIULIANI: All I heard were former FBI agents telling me that there`s a revolution going on inside the FBI and it`s now at a boiling point.

I had expected this for the last -- honestly, I`ll tell you the truth, I thought it was going to be about three or four weeks ago.

I did nothing to get it out. I had no role in it. Did I hear about it? You`re darn right, I heard about it, and I can`t even repeat the language that I heard from the former FBI -


HAYES: An interview on "HARDBALL" just moments ago, Giuliani denied having any inside information about the FBI.


GIULIANI: I had no idea that Jim Comey was going to do what he was going to do the day that he did it, nor did I ever think he was going to do it. What I did know about, which is quite true, for about four months, is that the FBI was very, very upset about the way Jim Comey had handled the case. But I heard that from former FBI agents, not from current FBI agents.

MATTHEWS: You have no inside information, as of this moment from the FBI?

GIULIANI: Correct.


HAYES: Two Democratic Congressmen, Elijah Cummings, John Conyers, are now calling on the Justice Department`s Inspector General to investigate alleged FBI leaks to the Trump camp.

Not long ago, President Obama sat down for an interview with my colleague, Reverend Al Sharpton. We will be airing that full interview. Coming up.

The president commented for the first time on what appear to be politically motivated leaks from within or around the FBI.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When you are investigating a case, then, unless you have unearthed something, you need to just do your job. If there are things that you think are worth presenting, then you present them to a prosecutor.

We give enormous power to our law enforcement officials to keep us safe, to do a great job, to protect us, but we also put these norms and rules in place, some of them written, some unwritten, to make sure that any of us are not suddenly affected by innuendo or rumors. And that`s true for an ordinary citizen and it`s true for somebody who`s running for President of the United States.

HAYES: I`m joined now by Matthew Miller, former spokesman for the Justice Department.

Matthew, what do you make of all this?

MATTHEW MILLER, FORMER SPOKESMAN DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE: You know, I think what we have seen, each day, we`ve seen more and more that there`s a real crisis going on inside the FBI.

You have agents that are at war with their supervisors inside the bureau. You have agents that are at war with prosecutors. And you have an FBI director who is unaccountable to the Attorney General but he supposedly reports to.

I think the way the president said it is exactly right. These are rules that exist for every citizen that includes Hillary Clinton. But when you see the FBI director come out, you know, all the way back in July and set the tone at the top that the rules don`t apply to him, it`s not surprising that agents on down the line think that they can leak to the press and it sound like think that they can link -- leak to someone who represents the Trump campaign, Rudy Giuliani.

HAYES: One thing that has caught my eye is the sourcing on all of this, because I want to be clear about it and there`s a point Wayne Barrett made last night.

A lot of this sourcing has been very hazy. People familiar with the investigations, sources close to this, people with knowledge. Now, that`s not necessarily people inside the FBI.

So part of what`s I think really dangerous about this is you got a ton of anonymous sources, extremely loosely identified who might be swirling around a game of telephone from a current agent to a former agent to Rudy Giuliani to someone else, to a reporter. And next thing you know, Hillary`s about to be indicted is coming out of the mouth of the republican nominee and on about 5 million different Facebook share pages.

MILLER: Yes. And that always happens in the reporting about investigations because you have agency of retired agents. You have people that have been interviewed within the course of the investigation.

It is clear, though, that there are agents directly leaking. If you look at some of the stories, particularly "The Wall Street Journal" story that ran over the weekend, they quote law enforcement officials and FBI officials on background.

So it is clear and then what happens is in this, you know, heated political season so close to the election, it takes off and it`s in the mouth of the republican nominee, it`s in the mouth of their surrogates, in the mouth of right-wing media and it`s all over social media as well, which goes back to the point of why law enforcement is not supposed to say things about investigations publicly, privately, in any venue so close to an election. They`re supposed to just be quiet.

HAYES: So, let me - let me ask you this. I saw a few conservatives pointing this out today, saying you liberals, you`re so upset someone is leaking an investigation. Isn`t that what Mark felt, the FBI did during Watergate, and you guys all think Woodward and Bernstein are a hero..

MILLER: Yes. Well, there is a very big difference here. In Watergate, there was evidence of crime. And by the time that - by the time the leaks happened, by the time all the investigations were over, by the time impeachment hearings were over, there was clear evidence of a crime.

Let`s go back and look at what the Hillary Clinton e-mail situation we`re talking about here. It`s already been reviewed by prosecutors and found, you know, there was no evidence of any crime. There`s not going to be anything in these new e-mails that`s going to change that conclusion.

So what we have instead is not leaking -- these aren`t whistleblowers that are leaking. These are people that are leaking to try to influence the outcome of the election. And that`s obviously very different than what happened in Watergate.

HAYES: Alright. Matthew Miller, thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

MILLER: Thank you.

HAYES: Joining me now, Gabe Sherman, National Affairs Editor for New York Magazine and an MSNBC Contributor, and Lynn Sweet Washington Bureau Chief to Chicago Sun Times. And Gabe, let me start with you.

I mean, the walk back, that Bret Baier story, it went from zero to a thousand, then walked back, then basically back down to zero. And it was stunning to watch someone on that network essentially recant a story which is something I`ve never seen them do.

GABE SHERMAN, NEW YORK MAGAZINE NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR: Unprecedented. This whole cycle has been unprecedented.

But, we should point out that from my reporting, inside Fox News, that report created a big problem because Bret is not - he`s an anchor, he`s not a reporter and he`s going on air to bring new information to Fox viewers and there is really a journalistic breakdown here. And, I think there`s a lot more questions to ask about how that report got on the air. And really, there was a whole series of meetings and that led to Bret Baier`s walking it back.

So, I think this really is a big problem for Fox because post-Ailes, the network says listen we`re trying to move away from being Roger Ailes`s personal right wing megaphone, and then you have Bret Baier going on air and giving a discredited report.

HAYES: And I want to be clear here, I don`t want to pile on Bret Baier because people make mistakes in the course of reporting.

Lynn, to me the thing that`s been the most troubling here is less outlets running with it and more what it means about the integrity of the bureau, and this idea that we`re -- keep getting from folks around - particularly, the New York bureau that essentially there`s like a revolt happening with a unit in the bureau that wants to see Hillary Clinton essentially, you know, in an orange jumpsuit a la the people you see at a Trump rally.

LYNN SWEET, CHICAGO SUN TIMES WASHINGTON BUEAU CHIEF: Well, one of the compliments I want to give here is to Chris Matthews, who just a short time ago, actually asked Rudy Giuliani, who people might think, well, he`s connected in New York. FBI circles, so this could be a guy who knows something. That he did - he asked, Chris, Giuliani, the question that reporters should ask at the beginning.

"What do you directly know?" Not what did you hear, what do you think, what do you really know. And he finally said, Giuliani, that he did not have firsthand information about the situation.

And I think that`s the most important thing for our viewers to know right now, that the -- that one of the people who you thought was a source really is not. And that`s instructive, and we know that Donald Trump is immune to fact checking, but perhaps Rudy Giuliani is not. We just saw that happen.

HAYES: Let`s be clear here, too. Surrogates are not sources. OK? And they`re not reporters. So, this idea that new information is being entered into the public record about the most, high-leveled, sensitive, important, and high stakes functions of the Federal Bureau of Investigation is ludicrous to begin with.

SHERMAN: This is so crazy. I mean, just stepping back, there`s an old journalism rule that says very close to an election, if you`re a newsroom, you do not put out an explosive story that could sway the election one way or the other unless there is an extreme public need to know. What Rudy Giuliani did, what Bret Baier did, and what all these leaks about the FBI are doing is polluting the public record without really knowing anything. And that is a disservice to viewers and also a disservice to the democracy.

HAYES: Yes. Have you -- Lynn, you`ve been a political reporter through several cycles. I mean, have you ever seen anything quite like this crazy leaking and sort of rumormongering?

SWEET: Well, on top of every other unprecedented type of thing we`ve seen in this - in this election with Trump, no, and it`s particularly dangerous as journalists and as consumers of news to have this kind of environment. But having said that, the responsibility -- let`s not take it away from Trump either who is repeating, who is making up stuff out of whole cloth.

So people make mistakes along the way in what they`ve reported. And you got to cut people slack for making mistakes, which is different than the decision, if you go on air or you write something this close.

Donald trump was making things up that no one ever said. OK?

HAYES: Right.

SWEET: That`s where i think we have to keep attention on. When you have somebody who can`t -- he`s in a good situation. He has a lot of breaks here with this FBI bombshell.

HAYES: And I - yes -

SWEET: But he is making stuff up that doesn`t exist. He already has a very good issue. He had this handed to him.

And that to me, is what the focus is on. And as much as I think we do need now and after this a good bunch of self-introspection about our own business and how we handled this campaign, Chris.

SHERMAN: No, I agree. The fact that Rudy Giuliani`s given a public platform on Fox News and now he`s gone on other networks to explain his sourcing, really, I mean, news producers and journalists need to say, as you said, surrogates are not sources. They`re going to --

HAYES: Chris Matthews did a great job of pressing on.

SHERMAN: Yes. I mean, Rudy Giuliani will say it if you give him the platform. But there should be a step back saying, we don`t want to do that.

HAYES: Right. Gabe Sherman and Lynn Sweet, thank you both.

SWEET: Thank you.

HAYES: Up next, MSNBC`s exclusive interview with President Barack Obama, his visceral reaction to the idea of having Donald Trump in the White House and how his own legacy is at stake. That starts right after this two- minute break. Stick around.


OBAMA: If you supported me in `08, if you supported me in `12, if you think that I`ve done a good job, if you believe Michelle`s done a good job, everything that we`ve done over the last eight years will be reversed with a Trump presidency.




OBAMA: Those values that we`ve taught our children, that you`re teaching your children, your grandchildren, we can`t have a president who every day seems to violate those basic values.

Suddenly, reality TV has entered into the race for the presidency. It`s not even "Survivor" or "The Bachelorette." I mean, it`s like some "Love and Hip hop" stuff.


HAYES: With the eve of early voting coming to a close in North Carolina, President Obama was in Fayetteville this afternoon and Charlotte this evening, trying to lift the early voter turnout among African-American voters, who one week out, made up a smaller proportion of early voters in North Carolina, compared to the same point in 2012.

Earlier, the president took a moment between those two rallies to sit down with my colleague, Reverend Al Sharpton.


REV AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: There`s been a lot of energy, as you`ve been traveling the last few days.


SHARPTON: You just finished a rally here in Fayetteville. And you said your legacy is on the ballot.

Yet, there are reports that the African-American vote is not exactly where they would want it. How do we translate the energy that you clearly inspire and the message that you have inspired about your legacy into actual votes?

OBAMA: Well, look, the good news is that what we`ve seen over the last several days is in Florida, in North Carolina, in places all across the country, votes generally have been up. You have seen in the African- American community, big surges in early vote, big surges in Latino vote, big surges in youth vote.

And so, if we can just sustain what we`ve done over the last several days, then across the country, votes generally have been up. You have seen in the African-American community, big surges in early vote, big surges in Latino vote, big surges in youth vote.

And so if we can just sustain what we`ve done over the last several days, then I will feel good about the ultimate turnout results. But what is true is that, in part, because I think a lot of people still can`t believe that Donald Trump would be elected president, there may be a complacency setting in.

And, you know, the main thing that I`ve been trying to explain to people is that, if you supported me in `08, if you supported me in `12, if you think that I`ve done a good job, if you believe that Michelle has done a good job, everything that we`ve done over the last eight years will be reversed with a Trump presidency. And everything will be sustained and built on with a Hillary Clinton presidency.

So, this vote is as important as any of those other two votes in being able to maintain a progressive agenda that keeps 20 million people with health insurance and hopefully gets the next 20 million; that make sure that we`re working on issues like criminal justice reform. And somebody who actually wants to see a reinvigorated civil rights office in the Justice Department, that wants to make sure that things like early childhood education get put in place so that our young people can all get the benefits of a great education at the earliest stages all the way through college.

You can`t say you care about those things and then suggest somehow that you`re feeling cynical or you`re not sufficiently inspired. You know, Michelle and I, we talk over the dinner table, we explained to our daughters, you know, not everything`s supposed to be inspiring. Sometimes you just do what you have to do and one of the things you got to do right now is to make sure to vote for Hillary Clinton.

SHARPTON: You`ve actually criticized Trump for having the support of KKK sympathizers. I mean, this is frightening for many people in this country, but I don`t know if it`s as come home to -

OBAMA: Look, I mean -- I`ve been critical, not that somebody decides to support him, but that he doesn`t immediately disown that support and sends signals that he is OK with discrimination against minorities, that he`s okay or sympathetic with respect to discrimination towards Muslims.

These are things that he says on an ongoing basis, comments that would have once been considered completely disqualifying by a democratic or republican candidate. Imagine if I, when I had been running, said one-tenth of the things that Donald Trump has said. People would have immediately said that person is not qualified to be president. If Hillary Clinton right now said just a fraction of the things that Mr. Trump said, people would be outraged and the republicans would say, you can`t have that person serving. And it`s not just with respect to his attitudes towards minorities, it`s his lack of respect for the constitution.

I mean, when you stand on a presidential debate stage, and you say to your political opponent, I`m going to throw you in jail, that`s what happens in banana republics. That`s what happens in a lot of countries around the world that are run by authoritarians. And so i take him at his word when he says that he admires somebody like a Vladimir Putin.

And the fact that you got republicans who in the past have criticized me for even talking to Russians and now feel comfortable with supporting somebody who considers the former head of the KGB as a role model indicates that either they know better and they don`t care or they don`t know better.

SHARPTON: You look at this personally for a minute, because one of the things he said -- he rose to political prominence outside of his business and entertainment with the brother issue. I mean, can you imagine how you would feel standing on the steps of the capitol having to hand over the power and watch him put his hand on that bible and become your successor after saying you weren`t even a U.S. citizen?

OBAMA: You know, the thing is I don`t take any of this personally because he is not somebody who is fit to be president in any circumstances. I would feel deeply frustrated not because of anything he said about me but because I would fear for the future of our country.

And I say that mindful of the fact that there are disagreements between republicans and democrats, but I`ve said this in speeches before.

When I ran against John McCain, I thought he had wrong ideas and I believed I would be a better president. But I didn`t think that if John McCain was president that basic standards of decency, basic constitution norms would be out the window.

When I ran against Mitt Romney, I disagreed with him on his economic policies, but he released his tax returns. I wasn`t worried about what kinds of business interests that he might have.

When he said - when Donald Trump says that he is prepared to be president and he will have his family run his businesses, not a blind trust, when he`s got all kinds of business interests that nobody know knows what`s what and where his money is coming from, and where it might be going.

That is the kind of unprecedented attitude with respect to the highest office in the land that would make me concerned about the country as a whole. And so the good news is that the majority of the American people recognize that he`s not fit to be president.

The challenge that we always have, and you`re very familiar with this, Reverend, is that who votes doesn`t always match up with the attitudes of the majority.


OBAMA: And if we had a system in which consistently the majority of the American people voted not just during presidential years but midterms, congress would look very different and we`d have very different policies.

SHARPTON: There are reports of leaks from FBI about Mrs. Clinton. It seems to be geared toward harming her candidacy. Does it disturb you or even raise an eyebrow that there may be some elements in law enforcement or even the FBI that are purposefully trying to affect this campaign or this election?

OBAMA: Well -- I`ll say what I`ve said before. I`m always very careful about speaking about active cases being handled by the Justice Department or the FBI because I don`t want to appear as if I`m influencing them unduly. The reason for that is that historically both under democratic and republican administrations, our goal has been and should be that our investigators and our prosecutors are independent of politics. That they`re not politicized, that they`re not used as a weapon to advantage either side in partisan arguments. And i want to make sure that we continue with that tradition and with that norm.

I`ve said before and I`ll say again Jim Comey`s a good man and i do not believe that he is in any way trying to influence the election one way or another. I think he`s a serious public servant and wants to do the right thing. I think the overwhelming majority of FBI feel the same way, the overwhelming majority of people in the Justice Department feel the same way.

What I have said is I want all of us to think about maintaining these norms. When you are investigating a case, then, unless you have unearthed something, you need to just do your job. If there are things that you think are worth presenting, then you present them to a prosecutor. The prosecutor then makes a judgment. The prosecutor can make a decision either to file a charge or not to file a charge.

But we give enormous power to our law enforcement officials to keep us safe, to do a great job, to protect us but we also put these norms and rules in place, some of them written, some of them unwritten, to make sure that any of us are not suddenly affected by innuendo or rumors. And that`s true for an ordinary citizen and it`s for somebody who is running for president of the United States.


HAYES: We`ll have much more of that exclusive interview coming up; including an answer about voter suppression you might not have expected. That is just ahead. Don`t go anywhere.


HAYES: African-American voters are at least according to the early voting we have seen not not yet turning out at the levels they did in 2012. So, to help reignite the black vote in swing states like Ohio, Jay-Z, for instance, is holding a get out the vote concert for Hillary Clinton tonight in Cleveland. And we`ve just confirmed Beyonce will also appear as a special guest.

In an exclusive interview with my colleague Al Sharpton today, President Obama spoke directly to voters about what he thinks is at stake.


AL SHARPTON, MSNBC: What do you want as your closing argument to be to voters that are saying they`re suppressing the vote. I don`t know if it matters. What should they know from President Barack Obama?

OBAMA: Here`s what they need to know. I would not have become president unless people turned out to vote. Over these last eight years, we have gone from coming close to a great depression, to unemployment rate that`s 4.9 percent, and created 15 million new jobs. Last year saw the highest jump in incomes that we`ve seen in 30, 40 years saw the biggest drop in poverty that we`ve seen in 30, 40 years. We just saw a jobs report this week that showed that wages are going up at the fastest pace since before we saw the great recession.

We have made so much progress in so many areas. All that is at stake. And I won North Carolina in `08 by two votes per precinct. Two votes per precinct. And so this notion that your vote doesn`t count? The fact of the matter is that you might be one of those two votes that changes the direction of American history.

And in this situation where we have such a stark choice, where we have Hillary Clinton, somebody who is an outstanding public servant, knows her stuff, is as experienced as anybody has ever been for this office, who has served in my administration, I have seen her up close, who has fought the good fight her entire life, who has put forward probably the most progressive platform in history and is committed to making sure that she builds on the progress that we`ve made over these last eight years, and you have another guy who is temperamentally unfit to be commander-in-chief, unqualified, doesn`t know anything or seem to be concerned about learning basic public policy, who has shown himself to be a bully and willing to discriminate against people who are not like him or somehow oppose him, when you have a choice that stark, the idea that you would sit on the sidelines is unacceptable.

So i am asking everybody who is watching this show, if you have not voted, you`ve got to go out there and vote. And particularly young people who may have been inspired by Bernie, but now say well, Hillary is too establishment, somebody who been marching after a police shooting and says, well, all politicians are the same. That`s not true.

The fact of the matter is is that nobody is going to be able from this office, as powerful as it is, to deliver everything to everybody right away. Progress is never made overnight.

Yes, there are going to be times where compromises need to be made. Yes, there`s no candidate out there who is going to be perfect on your issue the way you want it done a 100 percent of the time.

But you have to look at the choice we have right now and it could not be starker. And if somebody is not voting right now who is watching your program, you are voting for Donald Trump. And if that`s the case, then you need to own that you think his ideas and his behavior are OK. I don`t. And if you don`t, then you have to get off your chair and you have got to get out there and vote.

And the notion that some voter suppression is keeping you from voting, as systematic as Republicans have tried to make voting more difficult for minorities, for Democrats, for young people, the truth of the matter is if you actually want to vote, then you can vote. And it will take you 15 minutes in most cases where you`ve got early vote. If there`s no early vote, then, yes, you might have to wait in line for 20 minutes or half an hour to vote.

And the question would be why would you dis-empower yourself? Why would you give them that victory if they`re trying to keep you from voting by not voting?

We dis-empower ourselves all the time. You can`t tell me that all those folks who don`t vote are doing so because somebody has turned them away or somebody has intimidated them. No, it`s because they decided they had something better to do. And my suggestion would be in this election at this moment, there`s nothing better to do than vote. And if you need to know how to vote, just go to It will tell you exactly how to vote, where to vote.

And I am so proud of the work we`ve done, but I`ve said before it`s never the work of just one person or one president or one term. The work we engage in to make this country is an ongoing process and it depends on active citizens getting educated about issues and going out there and participating.

Now is that moment where people have to be heard.

SHARPTON: Thank you, Mr. President.

OBAMA: Appreciate you, sir. Thank you.

SHARPTON: Thank you.


HAYES: All right, joining me now is he Reverend Al Sharpton who just conducted that interview. And, Rev, I`m curious to get your response to that last answer. Because I know that advocates often are worried that talking too much about systematic efforts to limit the franchise, disenfranchise voters, require voter ID, curtail early voting may have the unintended consequence of discouraging people or making them think it`s more difficult than it might actually be and a presidency like that was front of mind to him.

SHARPTON: No, that is why I, Chris, raised the question. Certainly no one has advocated more than I have and others in the civil rights community around these kinds of repressive moves that the president talked about. But he said but at the end of the day, even if you have to go through these things, even if it delays you, you can vote. And come on out and vote. That`s why the Legal Defense Fund and NAACP and National Action Network, all of us are out there.

And you don`t want the unintended consequences while we fight these repressive moves to make people feel that they cannot vote or should not go and vote, because we must pursue it.

It clearly is a lot different than when we had no right at all to vote or when there were much more stark consequences. So, I think what he said was important. And that`s why I wanted to raise it to say yes, and he confirmed there have been some real repressive moves. He`s not denying that. But he`s saying, but you`ve got to go ahead and vote anyhow. And I thought coming from him -- and I will have the entire interview Sunday morning, talk a lot about his race, and his legacy, and other things, coming from him the Sunday before election day was very important.

HAYES: You know, I the moment when you asked him what it would be like on January 20 to pass power to Donald Trump was a pretty interesting one because you can kind of see how horrifying, for lack of a better word, he found that and how hard he found it to think about.

SHARPTON: no. the thought that you are talking about a man who was basically a businessman and entertainer whose political rise was based on him questioning the legitimacy of this president, questioning his birthright with clear racial overtones. To think that President Obama would have to stand on the steps of the capitol and watch this man put his hand on the bible and become his successor, I had to ask him how would that make you feel.

You have to remember every outgoing president stands a few feet away while their successor is sworn in. And to think that this man would be sworn in who rose to political currency questioning the legitimacy of his predecessor. The president said he doesn`t take anything personally, but I wanted to raise the question to him and for viewers to think about that, wait a minute. He`d actually be having to stand there, looking at a man taking his position that he has held for eight years who said he was not even an American.

HAYES: Reverend Al Sharpton, thanks for being here tonight. It`s a really fascinating interview. Reverend Al`s interview with President Obama will run, as he said, in its entirety this Sunday at 8:00 a.m. eastern on Politics Nation right here on MSNBC.

Still to come, four days from the election, we`ll take a look at the latest polling and a key state where candidates are in a very tight race. That`s just ahead.

But first tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two. It`s a good one. It starts right after this break.


HAYES: Thing One tonight. It was New Jersey Governor Chris Christie who cast himself in role of overzealous prosecutor throwing red meat to a very heated crowd where I was observing the Republican National Convention this summer, leading convention goers in a mock trial of Hillary Clinton.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: Since the Justice Department refuses to allow you to render a verdict, I`m going to present the case now on the facts against Hillary Rodham Clinton.

As to Hillary Clinton, the charge of putting herself ahead of America, guilty or not guilty?

CROWD: Guilty!


HAYES: New Jersey today, a federal jury answered that question for two of Christie`s top allies. That`s Thing Two in 60 seconds.


HAYES: Today a verdict was reached in the Bridgegate trial involving two of Chris Christie`s top allies. A federal jury convicted former Christie deputy chief of staff, one of his closest associates Bridget Ann Kelly and former Port Authority director Bill Beroni over a scheme to close access lanes to the George Washington bridge a few years ago. Prosecutors allege it was form of political retribution against the Democratic mayor of Fort Lee, New Jersey who declined to support Christie`s reelection bid for governor.

Kelly and Beroni found guilty on multiple counts of conspiracy and fraud were the only people to be tried over the scandal, but both -- this is important -- the prosecution and the defense argued that Christie himself knew more than he previously admitted to.

Christie has long denied any involvement in the matter, issued this statement earlier, I had no prior knowledge to or during these lane realignments, had no role in authorizing them, no believable evidence was presented to contradict that fact. Anything said to the contrary over the past six weeks in court is simply untrue.

Christie now says he`ll set the record straight in the coming days. In the meantime, he continues to serve as the chairman of Donald Trump`s transition team. And what`s he doing there? Well, he`s the guy charged with hiring people for a potential Trump administration.

Clinton campaign chair John Podesta suggesting Trump should ask Christie to resign. Now comes late word Christie has canceled his Trump campaign events in New Hampshire tomorrow. Perhaps Trump should have stuck with his initial instinct on this one.


TRUMP: Look, here`s the story. The George Washington bridge. He knew about it. They didn`t mention at one of their meetings? I think they have breakfast like every day or every other day. They didn`t say, Chris, tonight we`re closing up the George Washington Bridge because the mayor of a certain area is against you. Oh, okay. They didn`t mention it. Nobody believes that.




CLINTON: I don`t want any of us, not me and not you, to wake up on Wednesday and think if we`d only done a little bit more things would have turned out differently.


HAYES: With just four days until election day and their surrogates campaigning across country, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump each held rallies in three different states today. Clinton stumped in Michigan, Trump in New Hampshire, both candidates making stops in Pennsylvania and Ohio.

There was some good news today for Clinton, the polling group Latino Decisions pointing to a significant upstick in Latino early voting and projecting that between 13.1 to 14.7 million Latinos will vote in this election, up from the 11.2 million who cast ballots from four years ago.

Separate poll today showed Clinton with a huge lead among Hispanic voters in three key states, numbers taht one of our next guest describes as downright terrifying for Republicans.

And as for the national polls enter into this final weekend, they show a tight race, Clinton holding a roughly three point lead over Trump according to FiveThirtyEight.

Polls also finding Clinton maintaining her advantage in most of her so- called firewall states, though there are signs of a tightening race in both Michigan and Pennsylvania.

And then there`s New Hampshire where three new polls show the race effectively tied after all three showed Clinton with a clear lead last month.

If the election day goes down to the wire, all eyes could be on Nevada where polls show the candidates within a single percentage point of each other. And Nevada is 28 percent Hispanic. It has seen the second largest increase in Latino early voting in the country behind Arizona, prompting speculation Clinton may be poised to beat her polls numbers there.

More on that right after this break.


HAYES: Nice work on that audio board there, guys. That`s the person that came after Senator Sherrod Brown. Yeah, yeah, that`s Jay-Z. He`s performing a concert in Cleveland. His wife, I think it`s fair to say, bigger star, Beyonce, will also be appearing soon.

Joining me now, Heather McGhee, president of the public policy organization DEMOS and Democratic pollster and radio talk show host Fernand Amondi.

And Fernand, I want to start with you, because -- all right, here`s what I`m seeing, which I find fascinating. Early voting data from Arizona, Nevada and Florida suggests significantly higher Latino turnout. Polling -- public polling right now has Georgia within a point and Arizona by about three or four points, and yet I know that the Clinton campaign thinks Arizona is closer than Georgia, Georiga is not getable and Arizona is. And all of that makes me think that there is a possibility that all the public polling has been underpredicting Latino turnout in this election.

FERNAND AMONDI, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Well, Chris, I`ll tell you and your listeners a little pollster secret. A lot of times the public polling does not have the ability for financial reasons to poll in Spanish. So oftentimes the margins for this Spanish-language sample are small. And we know in states like Arizona, Florida, even Colorado and certainly Nevada there`s enough of a Spanish language Hispanic voter that`s going to vote, those are overwhelming Democratic Clinton voters. So, it could be that there`s a hidden point or two that`s not captured.

We saw that in 2010 when the Democrats were supposed to lose complete control of the congress yet Hispanic voters kept Harry Reid in office and maintained control of the Senate.

I think you might see that dynamic playing out. And what`s certainly playing out, Chris, in our polling is that Hispanic voters overwhelmingly are backing Hillary Clinton. They could very well be her firewall in this election in those key states.

HAYES: We`re getting this interesting thing, right. We`re four days away. You just saw the president talking there. So this is the big experiment we`re going to get in four days. The Obama coalition, durable or not, right? I mean, that`s really the experiment. And you got the first Democrat to win outright majority of the American populous in back-to-back elections since FDR.

So, what is your sense of what dynamics are going into that coalition?

HEATHER MCGHEE, PRESIDENT, DEMOS: So I think that coalition is here to stay. I think that the issues that unite that coalition, which are really for the most part a working and middle class coalition are actually more widespread than that coalition itself, right?

I know that everybody have been talking about the panic about the turnout in the African-American vote. I happen to know that organizations like Color of Change has been sending 2 million texts and have an amazing program happening right now. I`m not as a lot of people are right now.


HAYES: Can I just -- I just want to say one thing before we leave that, which is that I find it a little -- like the phrasing of like well black turnout is down. Let`s just be clear here, white people in this country are going to elect Donald Trump in four days.

MCGHEE: Thank you.

HAYES: OK. That`s what`s going to happen. So let`s be clear about how this is all going down before anyone who is -- think -- wants to sort of cast aspersions or eyes -- the other thing people should think about -- and this goes to Fernand is that black voter turnout at very high rates controlling for education and income. So, they`re already almost maxed out relative to other populations. Continue. I`m sorry.

MCGHEE: No, I think that was what I was going to say. We need to be looking at what`s going on in white America politically. White Americans have not voted for a Democratic president since Lyndon Johnson. Like, we have to remember that there`s a lot of work to be done here. I mean, this can`t keep being African-Americans and millennials and single women sort of saving the country for progressive future.

That`s actually not what we need right now. We need a lot of work with white Americans who are working class who actually support higher taxes on the wealthy, who support debt-free college and sensible trade policies. That should be the Democratic message and I hope that`s the focus...

HAYES: OK, so here`s the question, Fernand, I remember talking to somebody about voter registration in the south.

And they said, look, you don`t get -- in politics every action has an equal and opposite reaction. You go and register a bunch of black voters in the south and turn them out, you know what is going to happen, a bunch of white voters are going to register and turn out. Because people -- and so the question I have is if we see real competition in Arizona or in Florida, are we going to see that kind of pushback also?

AMONDI: Well, you know, Chris, they call it is the Texas conundrum. One of the feelings is the more you try and do outreach and the more you try to propagate Hispanic candidates and Hispanic voters in Texas, that`s the reaction a lot of people fear will happen with white voters.

However, in other states like Florida it`s becoming so diverse, Chris, and you now see this Obama coalition, as you call it, unlocking what had been a Republican lock on some of these key states. To the other point about white voters, this has a shelf life simply because millennial voters, young voters between the ages of 18 to 34, by 2020 they`re going to be the largest segment of the American electorate. They`re not part of this trend. So I think that will change shortly.

HAYES: We should note white Millennials will almost certainly not vote for Donald Trump, young white people.

The children.

Heather McGhee, Fernand Amondi, thank you both for your time. Appreciate it.

That is All In for this evening.