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All In With Chris Hayes, Transcript 10/10/2016

Guests: Robert Tef Poe, Taurean Russell, Tim Reid, Christina Bellantoni, Tara Dowdell, Sam Sutter, Jigar Shah, Bob Kincaid

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: October 10, 2014 Guest: Robert Tef Poe, Taurean Russell, Tim Reid, Christina Bellantoni, Tara Dowdell, Sam Sutter, Jigar Shah, Bob Kincaid

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC ANCHOR: Lewinsky scandal, "You think about him with the women, Trump told me how about meeting with the women? Can you imagine? So didn't he realize when he finally decided to run that what we're getting into now with his video is going to be part of the bitter end?" Well that's hardball for now and it really is hardball. Thanks for being with us. ALL IN with Chris Hayes starts right now.

HAYES: Tonight on ALL IN.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a done deal. We got a candidate, get behind them.


HAYES: GOP Panic. New polling shows Donald Trump in free fall following the "Access Hollywood Tape."


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If they want to release more tapes, saying inappropriate things, we'll continue to talk about Bill and Hillary Clinton doing inappropriate things.


HAYES: As down ballot Republicans try to stop the bleeding, did Trump do anything last night to help his standing with women?


MIKE PENCE: Donald Trump last night showed that he's a big man.


HAYES: Then, words versus actions.


TRUMP: I have tremendous respect for women.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Have you ever done those things?

TRUMP: And women have respect for me. And I will tell you, no, I have not.

JILL HARTH, FORMER TRUMP BUSINESS ASSOCIATE: He pushed me up against the wall and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress again.


HAYES: Her lawyer joins me tonight. And scoring the debate.


CLINTON: Like I never saw anything like that before.


HAYES: Who demonstrated a command of issues and policy and who did not?


TRUMP: Russia is new in terms of nuclear. We are old, we're tired, we're exhausted in terms of nuclear.


HAYES: And ALL IN starts right now.

Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes. At this moment, both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are holding event, their first after last night's debate.

Now, Donald Trump's job last night was to attempt to wipe away the effects of that shocking video which he brags that he can sexually assault women because he's famous. In the process keep his party from abandoning him and somehow reverse his disastrous slide in the polls. Trump by nearly all accounts failed in that mission. And today we learned that things are even worse for him than they seemed.

A new NBC, Wall Street Journal poll taken this weekend after the Trump tape dropped, but before the debate shows Trump trailing Hillary Clinton by 11 points among likely voters in a four-way race with Trump getting just 35 percent of the vote.

Clinton has nearly doubled her lead over Trump compared to the same poll last month and her lead is even bigger when voters are ask to choose between the two leading candidate with Clinton leading Trump by a whopping 14 points in a two-way race.

This is just one poll and it was taken during a very tumultuous period during the race. But numbers like that if they were even to be sustained a little bit for 10 not just a massive Trump lost but a potential catastrophic disaster for the Republican Party in its efforts to hold the Senate and even maintain the House.

This morning, Mike Pence with all of the sincerity of a (inaudible) counting his party leader of resolute vision tried to cast the debate as some sort of turning point with Trump putting Friday's tape behind him.


PENCE: I mean the last night, my running mate, he showed the American people what's in his heart. He showed humility to the American people and then he fought back and turned the focus to the choice that we face. And I'm proud to stand with Donald Trump.


HAYES: But those who aren't on the ticket or coming to a very different conclusion. After more than 25 prominent Republicans called on Trump to drop out over the weekend and at least 20 more said they weren't voting for trump today.

The most powerful Republican in the country, House Speaker Paul Ryan, says he will not defend Trump or campaign with him going forward and instruct the members to, "Do what's best for you and your districts." Ryan is not, to be clear, rescinding his endorsement.

As Clinton noted today, Ryan is still endorsing Donald Trump while effectively conceding that he's not a person he wants to stand next to and also that Trump cannot win, a stance that satisfies precisely no one.

On a conference call this morning, Ryan faced angry blow back from conservative lawmakers supported of Trump. One member reportedly going so far to suggest Ryan and the GOP leadership were acting cowardly.

Pro-trump protesters today, gathering outside of the RNC to demand the party stand behind Trump, prompting Trump's campaign to fire East Virginia State Chairman, Corey Stewart for organizing that protest.

Trump, himself sending a high inside fast for writing the direction of Ryan's chin tweeting, "Paul Ryan should spend more time on balancing the budget jobs and illegal immigration and not waste his time on fighting Republican nominee.

At last night's debate which was watched by more than 66 million people according to Nielsen. Trump gave his base exactly what they wanted throwing them red meat on issues like Benghazi, dismissing his sexual assault boasts as locker room talk repeatedly interrupting and belittling Hillary Clinton even promising if elected to throw her in jail.

And then today in Pennsylvania, Trump went so far suggest he had somehow turn the story about his mistreatment of women back on Clinton and threaten that he would keep pushing that line.


TRUMP: I was getting beaten up for 72 hours on all the networks for inappropriate words 12 years ago, locker room talk, whatever you want to call it. But I said to myself, "Wait a minute," and I just saw a very inappropriate words. But Bill Clinton sexually assaulted innocent women and Hillary Clinton attacked those women viciously. One of them said more viciously than he attacked them. If they want to release more tapes saying inappropriate things, we'll continue to talk about Bill and Hillary Clinton doing inappropriate things. There are so many of them, folks.


HAYES: We should be very clear that those allegations against the former president are not substantiated and they are denied strongly by the former president. And the allegations about Hillary Clinton's mistreatment are also denied. While this plays great for the sort of people who show up at Trump's rallies, it's not clear, is what wins over undecided voters, particularly women voters who have abandoned Trump and droves.

And all of this leaves Republican politicians with two exceeding unappealing options. Either abandon Trump and face the wrath of the GOP base or stand with him and keep trying to some how defend the indefensible.

Joining me now, MSNBC Political Analyst, Michael Steele, former chair of the RNC.

And Michael there's a new a reporting now about sort of what's going on behind the scenes at the RNC. I should note, former RNC chairman the beginning to take on sort of legendary stature the more this goes on in terms of your resume. What is the state of the Republican Party institutionally at this moment?

MICHAEL STEELE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: It is back up against the wall, it's caught between its base, its nominee and its political leadership on the hill. And that is not a safe place to occupy in because you've got an election in 30 days. You've got a base that is becoming more and more disgruntled, those who are supporting Trump, those who are ticked off at him. You've got leadership on the hill and around the country, governors and members of Congress and state legislators who are backing away. And you have a defiant nominee.

So in answer to your question, it's all upside down crazy right now. And there's not a whole lot the institution can do about it. This is going to play itself out, Chris, in large measure because Donald Trump holds the cards. And as long as he holds the cards that he has and there's no one that could take them away from him, it's going to play itself out the way it is.

HAYES: What do you mean by that holds the cards in terms of he is not dependent upon the Republican Party in any way?

STEELE: That's right.

HAYES: There are no incentives or correctives that's -- for a normal like yourself for instance, a lifelong politician or at least lifelong Republican professional who wants to continue to be in the party, he doesn't care.

STEELE: Right. He doesn't care. And what threat do you holdover his head? You're going to take the nomination away from him? No, you're not, because the rules only allow that to happen if he dies or resigns. Is your running mate, you're going to convince your running mate, his running mate to step down? No. I mean Mike Pence has a political future and he's kind of stuck where he is.

So there's not a whole lot that that the party can do at this point except to cajole, plead and hope that Donald Trump sort of dials down the noise around Hillary Clinton and all of that scandal and focus on the issues that are winnable issues with the American people. See, that's the other side of this coin, Chris that is so frustrating for a lot of folks out there, is that there are legitimate policy issues that you can take to Hillary Clinton and win this election on. But that's not how this is playing itself out right now.

HAYES: But, you know what, the most interesting thing to me about that is that the issues where he seems to have the most resonance are themselves also deeply and subsequently intention with the leadership the party is well. I mean that's part of what allowed in the rise, right.

So the Republican Party has now coming around to see that this sort of border wall, tough on immigration, anti-trade deal package is a powerful message.

STEELE: Right.

HAYES: That was not the Republican Party's message.

STEELE: Right.

HAYES: Nor is aligned with Assad and Iran and Russia on Syria, the Republican Party's message.

STEELE: Right. But that, you know, some -- part of that message that Donald Trump has created has opened up a new space for the Republican Party to have a conversation with a lot of Americans otherwise would have been shut off from, particularly on issues like trade.

HAYES: Yeah.

STEELE: So the problem is adaptability. This party has yet to adapt to this new environment.

HAYES: But he doesn't know what it is.

STEELE: ... in the social economic -- pardon me?

HAYES: It just feels like he doesn't know what it is at this moment.

STEELE: Oh, no. They know what the hell it is. They know what it is. This isn't new. This has been brewing since Reagan left the office. This is nothing new for the party, this trend, these changes socially, economically, politically in areas of foreign affairs. This has all been changing underneath our feet for a long time.

HAYES: Right.

STEELE: We have just not bothered to look down to see exactly what it is and how we step into that space in a new way. That's all.

HAYES: Yeah. This is -- the problem is this isn't the guy doing the stepping right now.

STEELE: Yeah. That's essentially right.

HAYES: All right. Michael Steele, thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

STEELE: All right, buddy.

HAYES: It is no understatement to say that most American women do not think highly of Donald Trump impart because they feel he does not think highly of them.

In a survey of likely voters taken after Trump's comments made public Friday, 53 percent of women say Trump does not respect women at all and another 16 percent say he does not respect them much. That's more that two in three women saying Trump either barely respects them or doesn't respect them at all.

Last night's debate, Trump seems to have an air of menace about him, the entire time looming a tons over Clinton as she spoke, pacing in the background and threatening if elected to put her in her place.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country.

TRUMP: Because you'd be in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Secretary Clinton --


HAYES: Joining me now, Rebecca Traister, writer-at-large at New York Magazine. And I thought of you immediately in that moment because you have this incredible piece from New York RNC on the second night in Cleveland when Chris Christie was prosecuting her …


HAYES: The crowd -- exactly. And you basically said this is -- I feel like I'm watching a witch trial in the crowd chanting lock her up, guilty, guilty. And that moment -- I mean that moment is that taken to the instant degree because you're talking about a person explicitly promising to put his political opponent in jail.

TRAISTER: Right. To direct his, you know, a special prosecutor to put her in jail, should he win which is, you know, not legal. And also, a just -- again, its part of a pattern of criminalizing the person that you want to vilify, dehumanize. His behavior during the debate last night was so scary. I mean it was really -- it was horrible to watch. The experience of watching that event last night, I think was discomforting for a lot of people.

HAYES: Let me put -- OK, let me play devil's advocate for one second. Yeah. He was moving around the stage. It's a debate. They're, you know, going at each other. Like what did you find horrifying at all?

TRAISTER: He was -- the way he was following her around, the way he was pacing his reactions. Think about the tone of voice in the clip you just played. It wasn't, you know, in the previous debate he interrupted her, wrong, wrong, wrong in that kind of honking Donald Trump voice. Last night he was growling. He was very animalistic last night in way -- he was like he pawing the ground, right? He was pacing. He was reckless. He was angry. You could see that hate, you know.

One of the things that was interesting that the line that he used last night, you know, her heart is so full, I can't remember how he said it. She has hate -- a heart full of hate, or whatever. And one of the things that I think Donald Trump's ghost writer has pointed out about him is that practically every single thing he says about another person …

HAYES: Right.

TRAISTER: … is actually a reflection or projection of a quality about himself. And you could feel that hate for her just emanating from him last night. It was a very menacing scene.

HAYES: It also felt like, if you were writing some historical drama about the election of the first to impress. You have this great line, that there was Indiana Jones quality to it, of course its snakes. Of course it's Donald Trump. The man who used to run beauty pageants, who manned -- brags about his manhood on stage on it's, you know, third wife. Of course that's the person Hillary Clinton is going to have to defeat. But then you have the preamble of tonight on top of last night on top of that.

TRAISTER: Right. Well, to have -- first of all the tape in which he's openly sort of lateralizing this way that he's been talking about women through out. We have the pattern of him talking about the men's object, evaluating them aesthetically and sexually talking about, you know, women who breast feed or pee or, you know, or as disgusting. He's -- this pattern …

HAYES: Things for once use.

TRAISTER: Right. Things for his use, for the use of men with power, right? But then we have this very lateralized instance of it in terms of -- I can just kiss them. I can grab them by the genitals. I can assault them, right. And that's the preamble.

And then the additional thing which is that he brings in, in this stunt, this aggressive stunt, women who have accused this candidate's husband of sexual misdeeds or assault in the past and he brings them in and has a press conference. And then brings them in the room and, you know, the dynamics there of taking this person, whatever you think about her, she is in this historic role as the first woman to get this close to the American presidency.

And she's having to wrestle this troll, right? She's through -- she's working through the muck of misogyny. This guy is bringing in women into the room who have made these alligation against her husband.

Now, let me say something. There is a reasonable feminist conversation to be had about Bill Clinton. We've been having it in various ways for many years about Bill Clinton. His sexual power abuses, right?

HAYES: Right.

TRAISTER: Donald Trump doesn't care about that feminist conversation. That is not what Donald Trump was there talking about last night. He wanted to humiliate her in the way.

HAYES: Right.

TRAISTER: He knows how to humiliate women, which is sexually, to shame them, to make them feel bad about themselves sexually, to remind the country that her husband cheated on her, which he views as sort of the worst thing you can say about a woman. And that she didn't hold the sexual attention of her husband. That's what he was doing last night. He wasn't making that feminist argument about Bill Clinton which by the way had nothing to do with whether Hillary Clinton should be president anyway.

HAYES: Yes. And for some and somehow I felt implicated in that. Like at the -- what I think made it so wrenching and everyone across the political spectrum I think across the ideological spectrum. Everyone came out debate like, "ooh." And I think it was because of that for -- of the stunt that preceded it and that first ten minutes. It felt so wrong and that we were part of some shaming ritual, that we were watching it as a viewer, seeing -- we somehow were why this was happening.

TRAISTER: Right. Because it entertains us …

HAYES: Right.

TRAISTER: Because we …

HAYES: Who like, "Oh, snap." Right he -- right.

TRAISTER: This is the end of our fixation on this kind of entertainment, on this guy, how -- we -- or how this guy got to be the nominee for president.

HAYES: Yeah.

TRAISTER: And this is where it ends. And, in fact, the sort of sense that this is again, how this historic candidate had to -- this three debates for president, there's the first woman to ever be in general election presidential debates. And this was one of her three debates and she had to go in there with that man and have him standing over her shoulder, and have the women in the room. And it was so degrading. It was degrading to watch.

HAYES: Right.

TRAISTER: I'm sure it was degrading to participate in.

HAYES: Yeah.

TRAISTER: She -- you could tell she was rattled. I mean, she's obviously her strategy was to stay calm, and speak in a controlled voice, to not push back and all the things here he is saying she has hate in her heart. He's saying she should be jailed. She doesn't really respond to any of it. You could tell she was working very hard to stay under control. It was terrible to watch.

HAYES: Yes, it was, Rebecca Traister, thank you for your time as always. Appreciate it.

Still to come, separating the posture from the politics, Donald Trump may have done better last night than the first debate. But what did he actually say? A closer look at what we heard from the nominee. And Trump defends his comments about women as, "Locker room talk." I'll talk to a lawyer representing a woman who alleges. It's more of than talk just after this few minute break.



COOPER: You described kissing women without consent grabbing their genitals. That is sexual assault. You've bragged that you have sexually assaulted women. Do you understand that?

TRUMP: No, I didn't say at all. I don't think you understood what was said. This was locker room talk. I'm not proud of it. I apologized to my family. I apologized to the American people. Certainly I'm not proud of it, but this is locker room talk.


HAYES: That Donald Trump ostensibly apologized for his obscene and predatory comments captured 2005 Access Hollywood taping. He continued to dismiss in this "Locker room talk," some new version of the classic excuse that boys will be boys.

Last night, Trump tried to distinguish between his own words and the alleged actions by Bill Clinton. But when act that he actually done what he described on that tape. Trump, was notably reluctant to answer.


COOPER: Just for the record, though, are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?

TRUMP: I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women than I do.

COOPER: So for the record you're saying you never did that?

TRMP: I said things, but frankly you hear these things I said. And I was embarrassed by it, but I have tremendous respect to women.

COOPER: Have you ever done those things?

TRUMP: And women have respect for me. And I will tell you, no, I have not.


HAYES: The weekly standard asked Senator Jeff Sessions, the top Trump allied if he would characterize the behavior describing the video as sexual assault if it actually took place to which Sessions replied.

"I don't characterize that as sexual assault. I think that's a stretch. I don't know what he meant. So, if you grab a woman by the genitals, that's not sexual assault?" Follow up question, "I don't know, it's not clear that he -- how that would occur."

Same question to RNC Spokesmen Sean Spicer who responded, "I don't know. I'm not a lawyer." I'm sure you'd have the same response about e-mails. And Trump aide Steven Miller, "It was bawdy locker room talk. Nothing that he said, he has ever done. Period."

Not according to woman named Jill Harth. Who sued Trump for sexual harassment in 1997. Harth, ultimately dropped the suit and made a contract dispute with Trump. With the recent interview with the guardian she described what happened on the 1993 visit to Moraga.


HARTH: It started out as a group tour, but he at a very soon opportunity. He gave me a private tour. And that's when he pulled me aside in the children's room and made another sexually aggressive advance on me where he tried to make his move. He pushed me up against the wall and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress again. And I had to physically say, "What are you doing? Stop it." It was a shocking thing to have him do this.


HAYES: Donald Trump has denied Harth's allegations. I'm joined now by Lisa Bloom, the Attorney representing Jill Harth also a Legal Contributor for the "Today" show.

And Lisa, your response to Trump's response last night, particularly telling at the moderator that he has never done anything like that.

LISA BLOOM, TODAY SHOW LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's honestly really sickening to me as a woman, as Jill Harth's attorney, I have spent hours talking to her about the pain that she says Donald Trump caused her.

And I think what was missing in his very robotic apology that obviously Kellyanne Conway wrote for him, is any sense of the damage that this has caused is like, "Oh, I have to say locker room talk and I have to say I apologize. OK, now, let's move on and talk about ISIS."

And a genuine apology by a person who actually had a conscience would take into account the women he's harmed, women like Jill Harth who has maintained since 1997, when she filed a lawsuit against him, that he groped her, that he sexually assaulted her and it is sexual assault, take it from me, the lawyer, if you grab a woman by her genitals or you grab her breasts. That is very clearly a sexual assault.

HAYES: Yeah. Jeff Sessions was once nominated to be a Federal Judge, actually. He is a lawyer, unlike Sean Spicer. It was striking to me and I looked at Alabama criminal code. It's pretty clearly there. Is that -- is it surprising to you hear someone like a senator who his self a lawyer a possible judge at one point of his career denied that, that's sexual assault?

BLOOM: Well, this is like our politicians saying they can't comment on climate change because they're not scientists. I mean please. We all know that Trump was bragging about sexual assault on that tape. There's just no other way around it. And I'm so glad Anderson Cooper said that right to him in the debate.

And as you point out, it took three times before Trump even denied doing it. You know, you think of somebody really hadn't and done this kind of behavior, the first thing he would say is I absolutely did not. I never did it instead of talking about ISIS.

But, you know, by the way, Jill Harth is not the only one. There are others, Ivana Trump, his first wife claimed that he raped her during the marriage. She later sort of took that back and there was pending a lawsuit by a young woman who claimed that when she was 13 years old, she was raped by Donald Trump.

HAYES: Yeah. We should say though that we instead -- strongly denied by the Trump clan. I want to show you …

BLOOM: And there may be more.

HAYES: That will -- I want to show you this line, too. This is Rudy Giuliani, he's a surrogate. But there's been a little bit of, you know, we take this all very seriously but maybe not that seriously. Here's really Rudy Giuliani in the event today making a kind of joke of locker room talk. Take a listen.


RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Boy, that is as phony as -- I can't say the word because I have to be nice. I might say it back in the locker room.


HAYES: You get the sense from that joke that this is -- they think this is all kind of actually if you give them truth serum. They think this is political correctness run amok.

BLOOM: Right. So one of the things I love is a lot of professional athletes on Twitter saying I've spent a lot of time in locker rooms and actually this is not how we talk. And, you know, there -- this is clearly the talking point for Trump and his surrogates, as its locker room talk.

I'd like to point out, they were not in a locker room. In fact, they were in a workplace, a television set where there was a bunch of people around, they may have all been guys but, you know what, I've represented a lot of men in sexual harassment cases.


BLOOM: And I can tell you a lot of men find this offensive as well. They're talking about a women, the actress when they get out of the bus and she's there getting paid to smile and be nice. She then has to hug Donald Trump after he's just talked about what he likes to do to women, stick his tongue down their throat, you know, grope their genitals. I mean, so she has to be in that position. This is a workplace. It is not a locker room.

HAYES: Yeah, I think that's a very good point. This is a professional workplace and there's, you know, there are lots of laws guiding how one acts in those environments.

BLOOM: Right.

HAYES: Lisa Bloom, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

BLOOM: Thank you.

Still to come, the story behind Donald Trump's campaign bringing three women accusing Bill Clinton of sexual misconduct to the debate hall last night, how that scene unfolded, ahead.



TRUMP: Now the taxes are a very simple thing. As soon as I -- first of all, I pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. Many of her friends took bigger deductions. Warren Buffett took a massive deduction. Soros, who's a friend of hers, took massive deduction. Many of the people that giving her all these money that she can do many more commercials than me, gave her and took massive deductions.


HAYES: Trump last night trying to explain why he won't release his taxes and then went on to admit that he essentially hasn't paid federal income taxes in years. But he was then happy to roll out everybody does it defense named jacking, you just saw Warren Buffett, George Soros. And today, Warren Buffett responded in a statement, here are the highlights.

In 2015, Warren Buffett's adjusted gross income was more than $11 million, his deductions totalled $5 million of which allowable charitable contributions were about 3.5 million. His total charitable contributions during the year were, get this, $2.85 billion, "Of which more than 2.85 billion were not taken as deductions and never will be." Think about that for a moment.

Buffett, gave close to $3 billion in charitable contributions even though he could deduct on a tiny sliver of that because of the appropriate, as Buffett says, legal limits on charitable donations.

Now Buffett's federal income tax of the year was more than $1.845 million. He said, "I have been audited by the IRS multiple times. Currently, I am being audited. I have no problem in releasing my tax information while under audit neither with Mr. Trump, at least he would have no legal problem."

So, Warren Buffett basically saying, I'll show you mine, you show me yours. Taxes were just one area where Trump resorted to his signature circumlocutions demystifying Trump's debate performance, next.



CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight, on "ALL IN," tensions running high in St. Louis as protesters gather from around the country.

Then .


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the man that (INAUDIBLE) is an idiot.

HAYES: A plane passenger jokes about having Ebola. Plus, Republicans have a new campaign strategy. Terrify you.

Then, standing up against climate change. The Massachusetts D.A. who dropped charges against two men who blocked a coal shipment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is one of the gravest crises the planet has ever faced. We took a stand here today.

HAYES: He joins me tonight. And getting pulled from class for a Nobel Prize. Malala becomes the youngest winner of the peace award. "ALL IN in" starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. For a third night in a row, people are expected to be out on the streets in the St. Louis metro area protesting the fatal shooting of a young black man. Earlier today, hundreds marched in Clayton, Missouri, demanding the removal of St. Louis County prosecutor Bob McCulloch, and some demanding the arrest of police officer Darren Wilson following the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. There was a tense standoff last night between police and protesters following the shooting death of 18 yield Vonderrit Myers by a uniformed on- duty St. Louis police officer on Wednesday. Police say Myers had a gun that he fired at the officer after an altercation, a charge his family disputes. And earlier today, his family identified Myers on a store surveillance tape just before his fatal encounter with the officer. They reiterated, they do not believe that he was armed.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can plainly see that he was not armed. His pants was almost hanging off his whole body.

SYREITA MYERS, MOTHER OF VICTIM: The same people who supposed to protect and serve they`re taking our lives with no explanation and then they try to justify and then they put them out there as animals like they were animals and they was these hard core criminals and it hurts so bad because you can say all of these horrible things about my son. But I don`t know anything about the man who took his life.


HAYES: Autopsy results released late last night reveal Myers was shot once in the cheek and six or seven times in the body, not in the back of the head, as some had suggested. That information was released in the midst of last night`s marches, which occurred not in Ferguson, but in the heart of St. Louis. Now - heat up even more in St. Louis as thousands are expected to flood into the area are arriving as I speak for planned actions over the weekend. Earlier yesterday evening, St. Louis P.D. appeared to try to avoid the mistakes of the Ferguson police, staying back even as protests intensified. Protesters blocked several intersections and chanted things like no justice, no peace. And united we stand, united we fall. At one point, a few protesters took an American flag and burned it as cameras rolled.

Around 10:00 p.m., police seemed to shift their tactics. We started to see many of the same trappings of the intense police presence. They were part of the cycle of escalation that led to almost two weeks of unrest in Ferguson over the summer. Police stood in a line with shield, something we saw in Ferguson in August. They were dressed in full SWAT gear attempting to contain the protesters. Protests continued on for several hours into the night with pepper spray being used on several protesters.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going in or not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you in or not?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Press is going to meet you there, Taurean.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to bring this - We are going to bring this

RUSSELL: I need some water. I need that water.

HAYES: The night ended with eight arrests, two police vehicles damaged and one business with broken windows. Today, the family of Michael Brown released a statement urging calm. And, so far, as of now, we have seen calm, peaceful protest tonight. But it is early on a Friday night as thousands of people are headed into the St. Louis Metro area for a series of protest that are being built as some of the largest in recent St. Louis history. Joining me now, is Trymaine Lee. MSNBC reporter, he`s been covering events in Ferguson since Michael Brown`s death. He`s been there old day.

Trymaine, what did you see today?

TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Earlier, through a cold, whipping rain, what started out as a crowd of dozens turned into a crowd of at least 200? They stood outside of the Bust Westfall Justice Center, you know, proclaiming themselves there to ask prosecutor Bob McCulloch or demanding the prosecutor to step down. They marched around the block again, emboldened by some of the events that took place just about a dozen miles from here in St. Louis. The killing of the 18-year old man. And they bold and they are excited pressing through the wind and rain and they`re here to make a statement.

HAYES: You know, we have seen in the last few days because of the shooting of , who, it should be - it should be said according to police, according to what we know so far looks to be under quite different circumstances than the fatal shooting of Mike Brown. Police say there`s a weapon recovered that he fired at the officer. That has not been independently confirmed, as of yet, but I should put that out there. It does seem like the protest is sort of ignited across the region now. I mean, last night, you saw protests that looked like the Ferguson protest in the very heart of St. Louis and neighborhoods in St. Louis that were far removed from the unrest in August.

I think we may have lost sound on Trymaine there. Trymaine, are you still with me on that?

LEE: I`m back, Chris. Certainly, what began as protest here in ground zero in Ferguson clearly spread beyond these borders into St. Louis? And even despite some of the facts that police say they presented, that they found a gun, that there`s a bullet hole in the car in the direction of the officer, people here are still angry and upset that another young, black man has been killed. Again, and part of this speaks to the abyss of distrust between the community and the police. And the anger, especially among the kind of core group of protesters, veterans of the protest here in Ferguson say they`re not going to stop until their voice is heard not just hear, and not just in St. Louis, but across this country. That`s going national now.

HAYES: You were there in August. You and I were both there. We were both covering it. It struck me then how organic the protests were, but often how unorganized, or disorganized they seem. Is there a difference now? Does it seem like the protests are more organized? That there`s sort of leadership, that there is folks who`ve had experience in doing this?

LEE: It`s kind of twofold. In those early days, where things seem so unwieldy, and organic and spontaneous, all across Ferguson here on the West Florissant, (INAUDIBLE), where Michael Brown was killed. I mean and then people started to organize and have specific goals and ideals and demands and even organizing under Hands-Up United, and other organizations to pull off what they are calling, this weekend of resistance. But then, even now, I`m not sure, if it`s as organized as we thought. Expecting thousands. We haven`t seen many people out here yet. There`s talk of splinter groups going over to the (INAUDIBLE) neighborhood to St. Louis while there are events planned here in Ferguson. And even as I spoke, I just got a text message that`s saying, there`s some - another action over at the police department, at the same time it`s supposed to be a candle light vigil here. And it`s still as they can deal with the ideals and as organized, it`s still a little unwieldy because so many people have so many different interests under this kind of umbrella of protests.

HAYES: Trymaine Lee, thank you very much. Joining me now are the co- founders of Hands Up United. Robert Tef Poe and Taurean Russell. They are also both of the Organization for Black Struggle. Taurean, let me start with you that was footage we showed of you being pepper sprayed last night. Can you tell me about the circumstances under which that happened late last night in St. Louis?

TAURIAN RUSSELL: No matter the location, Ferguson or St. Louis, a peaceful protest turns violent and ugly by the arms of the police. We were peacefully protesting, walking down the streets on grand, walking passed arsenal. I believe I was attacked by the police. They walked out, police officers, some people wanted to have a verbal confrontation with them to verbalize, you know, their anger. And after that, the cars were already back there. They formed formations. And then behind us, they came out of cars and they swarmed us. No warning. Pepper sprayed me probably within a yard. They started beating up people and it was strategic to get people off of grand onto arsenal where the buildings and the trees are tall so they can do what they do, which is hurt peaceful protesters.

HAYES: Let me say this, Tef, and I`ll direct this question to you because I was watching the live stream last night and I saw you on it.

For folks that are watching that live stream, who are seeing what`s happening, you know, the protesters are in the police officers` faces, they`re yelling at them sometimes not more than a few inches away. What do you say to people who say you are provoking? You`re going out of your way to try to elicit this response from the police?

TEF POE, CO-FOUNDER, HANDS UP UNITED: Well, 17 shots into an unarmed man was provoking. Leaving Mike Brown in the street for 4 1/2 hours, dead, not allowing his parents to approach his body, forcing his parents to watch their son die was provoking. I think it`s unfair narrative that says, you know, you can come to our communities, that you don`t even live in, shoot us dead and then expect us to Kumbaya our way out of the situation. To expect us to not hurt, to expect us to not express the anger. This problem has been going on since my father was my age, since my mother was my age. It doesn`t look like your father`s civil rights movement because it`s not. We`re fed up. No one has answers. You know, people try to pacify us. The information that they do give us in the mainstream media is information that we already know in the community. We haven`t got answers at all and we`re hurt.

HAYES: Let me ask you about one thing you said in the beginning. You said fired 17 shots in an unarmed man. And I assume that`s talking about Vonderrit Myers who was shot and killed in the Shaw Neighborhood. You know, police say they have recovered a weapon. They say there`s ballistics. There`s shell casings. Do you just - do you think that`s fabricated?

TEF POE: St. Louis P.D. is widely known for a term that we call in my neighborhood, free casing. I`ve been walking down the street one morning, going to work and a cop pulled up on me and said what do you know about this murder? I say nothing. He says, get in the back of this car and tell me about it downtown. This happens all of the time. So I don`t think that it`s an unfair situation for us to be suspicious of the fact that they say he had a gun and his parents didn`t.

HAYES: Taurean, these protests that are planned for the weekend, do you see them taking place throughout, do you think people will be back in St. Louis, in Ferguson, in Clayton, all around the metro area this weekend?

RUSSELL: To speak on what Taurean said, it`s a method to the madness. The organizing - this organization that you see, it`s actually a plan. You can`t come down with 22 or 27 municipalities at the same time, lock people up, hold hostages, pepper spray tear gas people when you`re spread thin. I commend them for coming out last night. Good luck doing it on a weekend in the weekend resistance.

HAYES: Tef Poe, Taurean Russell, thank you very much.

POE: Thank you.

RUSSELL: Thank you.

HAYES: Joining me now, Tim Reid, he`s a correspondent for Reuters. Tim, you wrote a piece about planning that was happening inside officialdom in the St. Louis Metro area in Missouri, for the possibility of larger-scale unrest in the event of a lack of indictment for Darren Wilson. What did you find out through your reporting?

TIM REID, REUTERS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I found out, I mean, obviously, all sides, police enforcement, African American community, and the white community - everyone is very fixated on the grand jury decision which is expected to come out probably around the second week of November. And in the event that Officer Darren Wilson is not indicted by the grand jury, which many expect to be the decision, there is a great deal of concern among law enforcement that this will spark big protests, maybe even bigger than the ones we saw in August in the aftermath of Michael Brown shooting.

So, they are actually meeting two or three times a week, various police forces in the area to draw up contingency plans to prepare for these riots. They also worry that the riots will not just be confined to Ferguson, but to St. Louis. And also - they`re also talking to other police forces in other parts of the country both to get advice on how to deal with mass, civil unrest. But, also, to keep tabs with other police forces on outside groups that might come into the area, to, as the police enforcement people say, possibly, to cause trouble in the event that Officer Wilson is not indicted.

HAYES: You`re saying they are meeting two or three times a week. I mean that`s a fair amount of preparation going into this.

REID: Yeah, I mean I think this shows the level of concern about this eminent grand jury decision. I mean among the African American community, and this is not lost on everyone else, the grand jury that is deciding the Michael Brown shooting and then whether or not to indict Officer Wilson is a 12-member grand jury, nine of those members are white, six are white men, three members of the grand jury, African American and the chief prosecutor in charge of the proceedings, Bob McCulloch, who you mentioned earlier in the report, he comes from a family of policemen, his own father was shot in the line of duty by an African American man. So, there`s a lot of distrust, profound distrust in Ferguson that they will get a fair and impartial decision, although that is something that Bob McCulloch fiercely denies and says that the press says it`s fair.

HAYES: Of course, the question is, whether police learned - what lessons they take away in responding to mass protests, which have been largely peaceful, I mean throughout, if you sort of quantify them, the vast majority of protests and expression, even when they`ve been angry, have been peaceful. What kind of posture they take? Any sense from the reporting what that looks like?

REID: Now, with this - that`s very much a work in progress. And that is, I think, one of the major things that they`re discussing in these meetings is what kind of posture to take. Which police force takes the lead? I mean it was announced last week that the St. Louis County police are now going to take the lead day-to-day from now on. Whether they take the lead after the decision on the indictment is made is still being decided. I mean they`re not ruling out or taking off the table, you know, if things get really bad the use of carriers that we saw in the aftermath of the Michael Brown shooting. They are not taking anything off the table, but they are obviously very concerned, and this is a major part of the debate how to patrol the streets in the case of problems.

HAYES: Tim Reid, of Reuters, thank you very much.

REID: Thank you.

HAYES: After years of fracturing, Republicans have finally been able to come together on one thing - to scare the hell out of the American public. I`ll explain ahead.


HAYES: 25 days before the midterm elections, Republicans have finally settled on a unifying message - be afraid, be very afraid. Up until now, they haven`t really had one main theme to bring it all together. Their 2010 wave was driven by concerns over federal spending and out-of-control deficits. The deficit is now at a record low, and for a while, we thought it would be all about Obamacare. Now, the exchanges have turned out pretty well. Republicans seem to have largely abandoned their calls to repeal the law.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think at this stage, what we should do is a number of bills that would fix flaws in Obamacare. I think we`re passed the point of being able to repeal the bill all together.


HAYES: So, taking their cue from what has been a pretty grim bleak news cycle, the GOP has landed our argument that basically boils down to this. Ebola`s coming, ISIS wants to kill you and it`s all the Democrats fault.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While ISIS terrorists threaten to cross our border and kill Americans, my opponent falsely attacks me to hide her failed record on illegal immigration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a deadly disease and it needs to be taken seriously. This president seems to have trouble taking anything seriously, whether it`s Ebola, whether it`s our border security.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With America`s national security threatened, warnings of Islamic extremists, ISIL plotting imminent attacks, but what does Mark Udall say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark said last week that ISIL does not present an imminent threat to this nation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a world health crisis. It has to be addressed, again. You know, I`m a mom. I`ve got kids. And people are concerned. This is a safety and security issue and the president needs to lead.


HAYES: And because few things scare a candidate more than their opponent successfully scaring the crap out of the electorate, some Democrats appear to be getting it on the act.

In last night, North Carolina Senate debate Republican candidate Thom Tillis accuses opponent, Democrat Kay Hagan of making her constituents less safe.


STATE REP. THOM TILLIS, (R), NORTH CAROLINA: But she decided that a Park Avenue fundraiser was more important than a classified briefing on the threat of ISIS. She`s failing on a comprehensive strategy for ISIS and incidentally, she`s failing on a comprehensive strategy for addressing the Ebola threat. When I saw this threat emerging, I called for a ban. I think it takes courage to say folks, we`ve got to get the situation under control until the CDC can convince us that people are not going to come to this nation and threaten our safety and security.


HAYES: And in echo of our politics after 9/11 when Democrats - away from challenging the GOP national security scare tactics incumbent Senator Kay Hagan fired right back with a similar one of attack.


SEN. KAY HAGAN, (D) NORTH CAROLINA: These people are terrorists. They have killed Americans. Our mission should be to eradicate these terrorists. I`m well informed on these issues, but I think Speaker Tillis has been spineless because he will not say what he would do. He is not saying whether he would arm and train the rebels or whether he would put boots on the ground.


HAGAN: I`m decisive.


HAYES: Joining me now, Christina Bellantoni, editor and chief of "Roll Call.: And Christina, it is - Jerry Peters (ph) had a piece in "The New York Times" basically noting this. But it has gotten dark. The new cycle is dark. It`s basically Ebola and ISIS all the time. The level of sort of fear and threat is high. And you`re seeing now an election that wasn`t really about anything substantively. Now, sort of going to the lowest common darkest denominator.

CHRISTINA BELLANTONI, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF "ROLL CALL": Yes, all those true. There are two really important points to point out. One, all of Congress, Republicans and Democrats punted. And decided not to address the ISIS issue before going on recess to campaign. They left a week earlier than expected, didn`t deal with this. Now, there are some people, both parties that want to see a vote. We`re basically saying we authorizing the president to use military force there. But using in a campaign ads, I mean that`s typical. Everybody has done that since the beginning of campaign ads, right? You`re going to use something to scare people to show up. Now, the other part of this, Ebola, I do - I think we need to turn the lens on ourselves a little bit. They wouldn`t be able to use this to scare people if the media was not trumping up these stories and scaring people.


BELLANTONI: I mean we all play a part in that. And, you know, what a Democrat - I talked to this week said, why don`t we talk about the rising obesity rates, or ways that if we don`t invest in infrastructure, we could have another Minnesota bridge collapse. Like those things are scary, why aren`t we using those tactics? And Democrats just don`t have the same ability to message on it. But, in all, voters want to feel like they`re voting for something. And oftentimes, that ends up being a change message. But, in general, it`s something positive that you`re turning your life around. So, the scaring, it works for some voters on the margins, but it`s not necessarily the most effective tactic.

HAYES: Well, and there`s also been - I mean there`s also been some really reckless scare monitoring here. I mean Wendy Rogers in this Arizona race and Kyrsten Sinema having an ad with James - the opening shot of James - his beheading video in a campaign ad, which I think was widely seen as beyond the tale, tasteless and disgusting. She added polling that add. You`ve had two members of Congress, Duncan Hunter and Trent Franks, both Republicans, claiming, as a matter of fact that ISIS fighters have been either up against the borders or operating (INAUDIBLE) when there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

BELLANTONI: Yeah, that is - it doesn`t - you don`t really - the truth in advertising role is sort of nonsense. We have fact checking organizations that will say, will that ad was baloney. That just gives you fuel to run another ad.

HAYES: Right.

BELLANTONI: And it really goes back and - and both parties do it and both parties trump these things up. One thing - I have seen a little bit of a shift. You are not seeing as many social issues. I mean think about the sort of like, are they corrupting our values scary ads .


BELLANTONI: That you`ve seen in years past? There`s less of that.

HAYES: No, that`s completely gone.

BELLANTONI: Because of what you are seeing with the gay marriage decision.

HAYES: You are not seeing it. It`s amazing.


HAYES: Here, you have all of this actual stuff happening with gay marriage. It`s completely outside of that. Christina Bellantoni, thank you.

BELLANTONI: Thank you. Have a good one.

HAYES: Ahead, what looked like a scene from E.T. come to life on a U.S. Airways flight, plus we`ll wrap up our week of "ALL IN" America coal country." What happens to Appalachia when all the coal`s gone? Stay tuned for that.


HAYES: In Birmingham, England, this morning, there was an unusual announcement during chemistry class at the age best in high school for girls. The teacher came in, pulled one of the students aside to tell her she had won a Nobel Peace Prize. That student, of course, is Malala Yousafzai, the 17-year-old Pakistani girl who just two years ago was recovering from a gunshot wound to the head after the Taliban tried to kill her for doing what earned her the Noble Prize today, tirelessly advocating for girls` right to education.

She shares the prize with Kailash Satyarthi of India whose organization Save the Childhood movement has continuously campaigned for children`s rights and an end to child trafficking. Symbolism of the Pakistani Muslim and an Indian Hindu sharing the prize are not lost to either of them. As Malala recounted a conversation she`d had with the fellow Nobel laureate earlier today.


MALALA YOUSAFZI, WINNER OF NOBEL PEACE PRIZE: We both decided that we will walk together for this call that every child gets quality education and do not (inaudible) these issues. Other than that we also decided that he is from India and I`m from Pakistan, we will try to build strong relationships between India and Pakistan.


HAYES: Since the Taliban`s attack, Malala has become a symbol of bravery and perseverance in the face of terror, violence and oppression promoting non-violent solutions to conflict and crisis.

A year ago in a meeting with the president in the oval office and the first lady, she voiced her opposition to American drone strikes in Pakistan even though they reputedly were targeting the people who try to kill her, saying the attacks were fuelling terrorism.

Today, at a time when America is in a fearful mood, Malala reminds remarkable courage of so many across the globe who must stair down terror right where they live almost every single day. She`s a voice for humanism in inhumane times.


YOUSAFZI: It does not matter what`s the color of your skin, what language do you speak, what religion do you believe in, it is that we should all consider each of them as human beings and we should respect each other and we should all fight for our rights, for the rights of children, for the rights of women and for the rights of every human being.


HAYES: The world knows Malala Yousafzi`s name for good reason. Today is an opportunity to consider just how many more Malalas are out there. How much quiet and bravery there is in this world. Thank you, all of you.


HAYES: Well, we`ve done it, America. Just when you thought air travel couldn`t get more awesome, Ebola flight scares are now a thing. Today in Las Vegas, a Delta flight that originated at JFK in New York was quarantined at the gate at the McCarran International Airport.

This, after a passenger, who according to reports, had recently travelled to Africa, got sick and threw up on the plane. After a brief delay, the Clark County Department of Aviation released this statement.

That reads in part, "It has been determined that the affected passenger does not meet the criteria for Ebola." I understand people taking precautions, but in a country where nearly 2 million people are getting on planes every day, you expect some percentage of them to get sick.

In fact, (inaudible) on flights called airsickness bags or parches bags every seat back pocket for just such an occasion. Today`s false alarm, of course, comes on the heels of what happened yesterday, just an incredible scene in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic.

A U.S. Airways flight from Philadelphia landed in the DR shortly after 1 p.m. local time and that`s when a 54-year-old man reportedly sneezed and said, quote, "I have Ebola. You are all screwed," hilarious.

Now the confusion and rumor about the disease, the plane was held on the tarmac and a flight attendant addressed all 290 passengers on board.


UNIDENTIFIED FLIGHT ATTENDANT: Everybody sit down. You, too. I need your attention. I`ve done this for 36 years. I think the man that has said this is an idiot. And I`ll say that straight up. I want you to keep your wits about you. We have people coming on.

We`ve all been watching the news. So they look like they`re in the little bubble machine. Please, stay out of their way. Let them do their job. This is all new territory for all of us. I`m trying to give you the loop as much as I can.


HAYES: There are more than 8,000 cases of Ebola more than half of them died. Here in the U.S., there`s been a one confirmed case, Thomas Duncan, a Liberian man who died on Wednesday.

Ever since he got on a plane and came to the U.S., there`s been a fear and worry of an outbreak happening here, which may explain why 58 percent of Americans now want a ban on incoming flights from West African countries hardest hit by Ebola.

Even though the CDC and public health officials say that would be a very bad idea. Joining me now is Democratic political strategist and Ebola skeptic, Tara Dowdell.

That video is so great because A, the fact that they`re wearing E.T. suits, my favorite part of it is the fact that the plane isn`t freaking out. You can tell, like, that`s what I love about this.

Sometimes I can`t tell whether the media is creating the sort of fear and, like, people are actually pretty chill or if people are panicking. And I feel like what I get from this video that people are actually pretty chill.

TARA DOWDELL, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL STRATEGIST: People are totally chill. People are taking selfies during that incident.

HAYES: Not with the Ebola suspect.

DOWDELL: Yes, exactly. I think the greatest part of it was the flight attendant. When she said I just want to say I think the guy that said this is an idiot. I think that really set the tone and calmed people double.

But I think this is a really gross over-reaction. Is Ebola a problem in Liberia? Yes. Is Ebola a problem in Sierra Leone, a serious crisis? Yes. Is it a problem in the United States of America? No.

HAYES: No. It just simply isn`t and, yet, we are now in a situation in which, because of the media and because it is a communicable disease, it`s something that they want to contain. You know, we saw it in Las Vegas. Someone throws up on a flight.

Someone says -- I don`t know about an idiot there, somebody acts in a strange manner and makes a joke about Ebola and you`ve got guys in bubble suits on the tarmac. And that`s going to be the way it is.

DOWDELL: Yes, it`s sort of like no one should make a joke about having Ebola. If you don`t want your flight delayed, don`t make a joke about having Ebola. But I do think that this has been hyped so much by the media, by so many people.

We have the enterovirus, for instance, which is actually affecting kids. There are all of these situations of little kids, 600 and such at hospitals, being paralyzed and dying. That is something that we should be concerned about. But this gross over-reaction, I think, and it`s being politicized, too.

HAYES: You told me something that your husband is a doctor. He`s a pulmonologist? He`s going to go to Liberia?

DOWDELL: Yes, he`s going to go to Liberia to help with the situation.

HAYES: That is pretty incredible.


HAYES: So how do you feel about that?

DOWDELL: Well, as I mentioned, as I said, it is a problem. It`s a serious crisis in Liberia so I am obviously concerned. But at the same time, I gave him my blessing because they need people to help. We have great doctors, great hospitals, and great technology in this country.

Unfortunately, part of why so many people are dying in Liberia is there`s not enough beds, not enough resources, not enough trained professionals to service the amount of people back there. So I support it nervously.

HAYES: When is he going? Do you know?

DOWDELL: He is probably going to go early next year because we`re actually going to Ethiopia first to do some humanitarian --

HAYES: And you are undeterred?

DOWDELL: I am undeterred. I will be in Ethiopia in November.

HAYES: This is a keep calm and carry on Tara Dowdell. Thank you very much.

DOWDELL: Thank you.

HAYES: All right. We`ll wrap up our week-long series of original reporting, "ALL IN AMERICA" Coal Country tonight, how a lobster boat called the "Henry David Tea" got involved in the protest over coal use in America and the amazing thing that happened after they do. That`s ahead.


HAYES: Tonight, at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, MSNBC will be broadcasting the ALMA awards, the America Latino Media Arts Awards, which honors outstanding Latino artistic achievements in television, film and music.

And at 11:00 p.m. Eastern, my friend and colleague, Alex Wagner, will be hosting after the ALMAs. She`s going to have great, behind-the-scenes video and special guest including Eva Longoria and MSNBC`s Jose Diaz Vallart. Hope you`ll tune in.


HAYES: All this week, we`ve been chronicaling the uncertain future of coal in America. Coal is the country`s dirtiest fuel and it`s getting hammered not only in the market place, but by a protest movement. It`s trying to shut the industry down, which brings us to this, two guys and a lobster boat.

In May of 2013, climate activist, Ken Ward and Jay O`Hara navigated a 32- foot lobster boat to a harbor near the Braden Point Power Station, NASA facility on the border of Massachusetts and Rhode Island and the largest coal fire power plant in New England.

When they arrived at their destination, Ward and O`Hara dropped anchor and then called the local police.


KEN WARD: Ken Ward, we are anchored off the pier at Riggand Point. I wanted to let you know we`re conducting a nonviolent, peaceful protest against the use of coal. And we`ll be completely cooperative.


HAYES: Ward, O`Hara, and their small lobster boat, the Henry David Tea, were positioned right where a 689-foot freighter needed to dock and unload a 40,000 ton shipment of coal from West Virginia. Over the course of a day, they managed to block that freighter and its shipment before finally quitting the blockade.

The two men were later charged with conspiracy and disturbing the peace among other violations, but that is not where the story ends. Ward and O`Hara were scheduled to face trial last month. They were ready to use something called the necessity defense.

The two had to act because the consequences of climate change are so dire, but they didn`t have to. Bristol County District Attorney Sam Sutter dropped the conspiracy charge and downgraded the other civil charges to civil infractions.

Facing a group of reporters gathered and holding a copy of "Rolling Stone" magazine, turned to an article on climate change written by environmentalist, Bill McKevin, Sutter explained he essentially agreed with Ward and O`Hara.


UNIDENTIIFIED MALE: This is one of the greatest crises the world has ever faced and it keeps getting worse. We took a stand here today and, case-by- case, incident by incident, we will continue to take a stand.


HAYES: Joining me now is Sam Sutter. Mr. Sutter, why did you make this decision? What was your thought process as you went into this?

SAM SUTTER, BRISTOL COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: My thought process was that, first of all, I had a duty to uphold the law and I think I did that. Because they did say they were responsible and they did agree to pay back the town of Somerset for the police overtime costs.

But I also agree with their position on climate change. It is a crisis and so therefore, I felt empowered to make the decision that I did to dismiss one of the charges and reduce the others.

I think what brought on all the intention was the short speech that I gave afterwards and I never thought that a three-to-four minute speech would bring more attention to myself and my office than prosecuting Aaron Hernandez but it has.

HAYES: Was it a moment of evolution for you? This has been an issue that was close to you that you`ve been thinking a lot about or was it something about being confronted with the facts of this case and the facts of this protest that kind of galvanized you or changed your mind and made you think about this in a way that you hadn`t before.

SUTTER: I would say the latter. I would say more that I`ve been reading more and more as the years have gone on. I`m an avid reader of Bill McKivens. I was particularly inspired by a short piece in "Rolling Stone" in June of this year.

He called the march that was coming up then. It took place a few weeks ago, a signal moment in the movement. I think that it was and so that was certainly part of my -- part of my thinking as I came into court that day.

HAYES: You came to that march and my question for you is do you think we are going to see more civil disobedience? Do you see this as a moment when the times demand people to do things that are out of the ordinary to kind of bring the issue to it had in a way it needs to be to confront the challenge?

SUTTER: Well, I`m not encouraging civil disobedience, necessarily, because as I`ve said many times, Chris, I agree with their position, although I disagree with the action that I took. I have to say that because, after all, I am the district attorney.

But I see many promising signs on the horizon. I`ve watched your show avidly this week and the focus that you`ve put on this issue. I think that we have to do not only more. We have to do much more.

HAYES: Sam Sutter, District Attorney, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

SUTTER: Thank you.

HAYES: I`ll be joined by activist, Bob Kinkaid, and clean energy entrepreneur, Jigar Shah, to talk about the future and what`s exciting about it. Stick around.


HAYES: So, for years, defenders of coal have made their argument by posing questions such as do you like having a refrigerator and airconditioner? Do you like having cheap electricity? You, of course being a human being answer yes.

And then the defender of coal says, well, then coal is the only way to go. The only problem is scientist say that in order to present the planet from becoming uninhabitable, we have to keep much of the earth`s fossil fuel reserves in the ground.

Much of the earth`s fossil fuel reserves are about 80 percent. Extracting and burning remaining coal reserves could push us to the point of no return and that of course is where renewable energy comes in.

Joining me now to discuss this future is Bob Kinkaid, who might remember from our series this week, co-founder of the Appalachian Community`s Health Emergency Campaign, and clean energy entrepreneur, Jigar Shah. He started Sunedision, a solar energy company and is author of "Creating Climate Wealth."

OK, let`s start with -- I want to start with the skepticism of people responding to our coal stuff this week, which is you`re a ridiculous hippy liberal.

You don`t understand anything about engineering and base load. You`ve got to burn coal forever. This idea that you could put up your little windmills and your solar. It`s preposterous. What do you say to that?

JIGAR SHAR, FOUNDER, SUNEDISON: We`re deploying $20 billion of the solar this year. So that`s more than all the natural gas that we`re deploying this year, any coal which we`re not deploying this year, any nuclear that we`re deploying this year. So in terms of --

HAYES: We`re deploying more solar this year than natural gas?

SHAH: Absolutely. The profits making for law firms, investment firms, they`re making more money on solar than natural gas, coal or nuclear this year.

HAYES: What about the question of base load, right? This is the big thing. People say coal and nuclear and hydro, also, right? They give you this steady load, whatever time of day. You don`t have to worry about whether it`s windy or sunny.

You can`t leave those behind. Those are always going to have to be the things that power your grid. And the idea that you`re going to go to a full, renewable grid is ridiculous.

SHAH: Well, I think that, first out of all, you have to acknowledge that we already have 450,000 megawatts of natural gas plants operating in the U.S. and which aren`t going to go away in the next year or so.

Second is that we`re actually moving to demand dexterity with supply dexterity. So today, you can actually control your airconditioner with the next thermostat.

Today you can actually change the way people use electricity using big data cheaper than you can turn on a new, natural gas generator.

HAYES: Right, so if you have a sophisticated enough grid and sophisticated enough software, you can actually predict load and demand well enough that you can match supply and demand in a kind of dynamic way, which hasn`t been possible even as recently as 10-15 years ago.

SHAH: At 80 percent less cost than turning on the natural gas generator.

HAYES: Right. So it`s actually cheaper to get really good software than to burn some molecules of carbon.

SHAH: Exactly.

HAYES: Bob, you said this thing that stuck with me about my coal done in Appalachian. I was amazed when we went down to Harlan County. You`re talking obviously you`re from West Virginia. This is in Eastern Kentucky. It`s part of the same region.

I think it`s fair to say. I was amazed that the folks I was talking to down there, almost to a person, said the same thing, and these are people, some of whom are conservative, some of whom hate Barack Obama, some of whom love Barack Obama.

Some of whom thinks climate change is a hoax. Some of whom think it`s a pressing concern, but everyone is like we understand. We see the writing on the wall and, yet, the political system doesn`t yet.

BOB KINCAID, ACTIVIST: How can you not see the writing on the wall, Chris? Because there`s not more coal in the ground being made by little Keebler coal elves, it`s going to go away and we`ve got a hundred years of dealing with the boom and bust cycle.

The people who have dug the coal and died to dig the coal know that better than anybody else. It`s not at all surprising that people would acknowledge reality. I know it seems challenging now. But we know that it`s going away.

And we know it`s going away because we wouldn`t be blowing the tops off of mountains with 5.5 million pounds of high explosives every day in Appalachia if there were six-foot seems of coal underground to be dug there.

The fact of the matter is the jobs are going away and the workers know it because there were thousands upon thousands of underground coal miners once upon time. They are gone now and there`s little more than 4,000 mountain top removal workers in West Virginia.

HAYES: For the entire state -- there`s 4,000 for the entire state?

KINCAID: Yes. And coupled with that, there are 4,000 statistical excess deaths in West Virginia`s mountain top removal counties every year. So we`re talking about an almost one-to-one swap for life for job. And that is not something that a state can tolerate and sustain into the future.

HAYES: And, yet, do you feel like coal`s power has been eaten away? What`s fascinating about me about this moment for coal is it`s facing a tax on two flanks. In the market, it`s really in trouble, right?

SHAH: Coal lost 10 percent of its share price yesterday.

HAYES: Yes, and on Friday, there were three big coal companies that hit historic lows. They`re getting hammered. Their bond ratings are in trouble. Like they are getting hammered in the market, right?

SHAH: We`re hiring 2,000 to 3,000 people a month in the solar industry alone. You count energy efficiency and a lot of the other climate change solutions there is and we`re up to 5,000 people a month. It`s extraordinary how many people we`re on boarding every month.

HAYES: OK, but that`s happening in the market. Plus, you`ve got activists, people like yourselves who are going after coal in sort of activism. But you go watch the Senate debate in West Virginia and they`re just competing on who loves coal the most, same thing down in Kentucky. When does that political power go away?

KINCAID: I think it only goes away when the coal industry itself goes away because our politicians have had the common decency to get bought and stay bought. The only people talking about the realities are third party candidates. And they`re talking about renewable energy and they`re talking about the health crisis in Appalachia and they`re talking about HR 5260 emergency act and mountain top removal.

HAYES: That`s in Congress.

KINCAID: Yes. I have had two ads in the "Charleston Gazette," Chris, calling on the Democratic candidate or the Republican, to not acknowledge that the studies, and there are more than 20 of them, that show that people are being poisoned in mountain top removal communities.

Not to agree with these studies, but to simply to acknowledge that they exists. And neither of these candidates and none of our political leadership --

SHHA: Don`t you think the reason Al Gore lost the presidency in 2000 is because he lost West Virginia, a state that`s reliably Democrat. Every Democrat has been afraid of talking about coal since that election. We need leadership. We need some people like Grimes to realize that actually if she talked about inspiration and hope that we would actually get elected.

HAYES: Here`s the most exciting thing to me about the best case scenario. I try to focus on best case scenario because if you focus on the worst case scenario of climate, you get super depressed.

The best case scenario is that there`s a relationship between the concentration of power and who gets the stuff out of the ground and the concentration of power and politics.

What that looks like is West Virginia and Kentucky and poor states with corrupt politics for a long time. And the future we might be headed towards, which is a more distributed one, might be one that is also more small D democratic when a small group of people don`t control all of the power.

KINCAID: I think that`s absolutely true, but it`s also a matter of the politicians having to learn and the political consultancy class, Chris. There`s polling data out there for both Republican and Democratic pollsters in the last few years that show upwards not just the morality, but 60 percent of people hate mountain top removal.

HAYES: Bob Kincaid and Jigar Shah, Gentlemen, thank you both. All right, to wrap up this week, my family is here visiting the studio tonight. Every time my daughter comes, she asks to see a video of a different animal on TV.

Last time, it was elephants. So we showed two baby elephants in a wading pool. Tonight`s request is gorillas. Here`s some gorillas eating birthday cake at the Cincinnati Zoo to celebrate the birthday of Gladys, the baby western gorilla who turned 1 in January.

That is ALL IN for this evening. The "RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts now with Steve Kornacki filling in for Rachel. Good evening, Steve.