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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 9/2/2016

Guests: : Joe Watkins, Deborah Williams, Trymaine Lee, Jacob Monty, Maria Teresa Kumar, Gabe Sherman, David Fahrenthold

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: September 2, 2016 Guest: Joe Watkins, Deborah Williams, Trymaine Lee, Jacob Monty, Maria Teresa Kumar, Gabe Sherman, David Fahrenthold

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTIERREZ: If you don`t do something about it, you`re going to have taco trucks at every corner.

(END VIDEO CLIP) REID (voice-over): The reaction to those comments by the founder of Latinos for Trump, how his view --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTIERREZ: Ask Hispanics. We`re taking over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID (voice-over): -- speaks to Trump`s cultural fear mongering.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not everyone who seeks to join our country will be able to successfully assimilate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID (voice-over): Then, the latest outreach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We`ve met with numerous African-American folks from the area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID (voice-over): I`ll speak with someone who was in that meeting, as controversy swirls around Trump`s Detroit trip tomorrow. Plus, evidence of pay for play by a presidential candidate. We`ll tell you why he was just fine. And Gabe Sherman on his new reporting on Roger Ailes and involvement with the Trump campaign when ALL IN starts now.

REID: Good evening from New York. I`m Joy Reid, in for Chris Hayes. Donald Trump has spent his week engaged in what might be the strangest, most fly by the seat of the pants attempt we`ve seen in modern times to reach out to two groups with which he is historically unpopular: Latinos and African-Americans. First, Trump flew to Mexico City for a meeting with Mexican president Enrique Pe¤a Nieto where he claimed the subject of who would pay for this mythical border wall, the major platform of his campaign, just never came up. Only to be almost immediately contradicted. Pe¤a Nieto said he told Trump during their meeting that Mexico would not be paying. Then in a speech in Arizona that night, an entirely different Trump emerged. The candidate abandoned the placating pro-Mexico jobs for the hemisphere -- not just America`s -- tone that he`d adopted just hours earlier and alienated several of his major Latino surrogates in the process. And then last night on this show, Marco Gutierrez, founder of the group Latinos for Trump said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTIERREZ: My culture is a very dominant culture, and it`s imposing and it`s causing problems. If you don`t do something about it, you`re going to have tacos trucks at every corner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: That spawned a viral hash tag and about a million jokes, including this tweet from the Clinton campaign. Much more on that in a bit. But first to Philadelphia where Trump this afternoon held a roundtable with about a dozen African-American community leaders at a catering hall in North Philly. While just outside the event, protestors lambasted the GOP presidential candidate as racist. After the roundtable, Trump said that he would bring jobs to the area, improve schools, and quote, get rid of the crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We`ve met with numerous African-American folks from the area and are having a tremendously hard time. And we will make things so good. We`re going to make things so good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Trump`s trip to Philadelphia comes just ahead of his planned visit to a black church in Detroit tomorrow where Trump is scheduled to sit with Bishop Wayne T. Jackson for an interview to air a week later on Jackson`s Christian cable TV channel, The Impact Network. Though, interview might not exactly be the right word. Yesterday The New York Times reported on a leaked eight-paged draft script for the interview, which showed the twelve questions Jackson intended to ask as well as verbatim responses Trump was advised to give. Such as, quote, I have a strong faith enriched by an ever wonderful God. The Times also reported that the Trump Campaign would have approval over the final cut of the interview before it airs and that Trump would not speak to the congregation. Well, that was the story as of late last night, and then it changed. A Trump aide told Times reporter Yamiche Alcindor that the campaign won`t edit the interview after all and that in fact Trump will speak before the members of the church. Well, today Bishop Jackson insisted the interview wouldn`t be entirely scripted, and he contradicted the Trump campaign`s claim that the candidate would address the congregation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAYNE T. JACKSON, BISHOP, THE IMPACT NETWORK: I have questions that they don`t know about, no one know about. I changed some after that came out. Now, I want to make something very clear. It was no coercing with the Trump campaign and myself to try to get him an upper hand on these questions. If he greets the congregation, as we do with all politicians or all visitors, if he wants to say, hey, I`m Donald Trump, I`m glad to be here. And it`s not going to be an interview or speech to the congregation because if that was something that anybody got, they didn`t give me the news. So I don`t know where that`s coming from.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Jackson was even more emphatic in an interview today with Yamiche Alcindor who tweeted, quote, just spoke with Bishop Jackson and he insists that Trump, despite campaign statements, will not be speaking to the congregation tomorrow. The campaign, however, insisted to NBC news late today that Trump definitely will be speaking. So we aren`t entirely sure what`s going to happen tomorrow, and neither, it appears, is the Trump campaign. Here`s one thing we do know: Donald Trump is in what you might call a deep hole with black voters. His favorable rating among African- Americans in one new poll is zero, with a whopping 97 percent say they have an unfavorable view of him. And another poll finds Trump in fourth place nationally among African-Americans with just 2 percent support. Less than both Gary Johnson and Jill Stein. And joining me now is Reverend Joe Watkins of the Price Evangelical Church in Philadelphia. He`s a Republican political strategist and former aide to President George H.W. Bush, and community activist and minister Deborah Williams, a GOP congressional candidate in Pennsylvania who was one of the people who met with Trump today. Thank you both for being here. And I want to start with you, Ms. Williams. You were in that meeting today. Tell us what happened. What did you hear from Donald Trump?

DEBORAH WILLIAMS, REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Good evening, Joy. I was very impressed. I wasn`t sure of what to expect when I went to the meeting. But Mr. Trump was prepared. He knew the statistics, he understood what was going on in the community. He did ask us questions to find out how we were feeling, what our temperature was in the communities. He even asked if we feel safe in our communities. And he talked about his plan for the communities. I was very impressed.

REID: And have you been surprised, made unhappy by, the fact that he, you know, has done this now meeting with about a dozen of you. We understand it was about 12 to 14 people, but that he hasn`t had that same kind of a conversation with African-Americans more generally? Like, for instance, speaking at a larger venue.

WILLIAMS: No, I wasn`t upset. I`d asked several times if he would come to Philadelphia. I wrote a piece called Black Lives Matter Absolutely. And though I don`t agree with -- some of the things I saw outside of the venue today were very disheartening. It would put you to tears. But that isn`t, I don`t think, symbolic of the entire movement. And he was concerned about how people feel right now. Because, you know, there`s been something brewing for years in the black community because no one in any party has seriously addressed the issues that we need to address in order to advance as a nation.

REID: And very quickly before I go to Reverend Watkins, were you a Trump supporter before this meeting started? Ms. Williams?

WILLIAMS: Oh, I`m sorry. I said you were going to --

REID: No, no. Before I go to Reverend Watkins, were you already a Trump supporter before this meeting?

WILLIAMS: Pretty much, yes.

REID: OK.

WILLIAMS: But I`m absolutely --

REID: OK. So Reverend Watkins, you know, Deborah is obviously supporting Donald Trump so she was happy with the meeting. You, as somebody who pastors a church in Philadelphia, who is, you know, well-known on the national stage in terms of being an African-American Republican, are you happy with the form of outreach that you`ve seen from Donald Trump?

JOE WATKINS, CHRIST EVANGELICAL LUTHERAN CHURCH, MINISTER: No, no, no, not at all. I think it`s not serious. I mean, if you want to court any kind of constituency, there`s a way to do it. One, is with respect. Two, it`s to reach out to the leadership of that constituency. That is in our case, the NAACP, the National Urban League with Mark Morial, the National Association of Black Journalists. There are a plethora of African-American organizations that have real constituencies where he could reach out and talk, begin a dialogue. And then if you`re serious about it, then you spend money. You hire staff people at high levels and you have them on the ground in all the key battleground states because you need to also have a message that appeals to African-American voters. And then you can`t talk to African-American voters the way we`ve been talked to by him on TV, which is to say we`re all poor, we all live in neighborhoods where we`re afraid we`re going to get shot. You know, we don`t have any other choices, we might as well give him a shot. I don`t want to be courted that way. I don`t know anybody African-American that wants to be courted that way. I`m insulted by that. And to come at me that way and to come at people who look like me and who are my race that way is insulting to me.

REID: Yes.

WATKINS: So have a real dialogue. I mean, if you go to Milwaukee, talk to leading African-Americans and large constituencies about how you stop black people getting shot by police officers. I mean, that`s a real issue that - - just this year -- that`s one of the ways to show that you`re serious. And then spend money. Buy advertising in black newspapers and black radio stations and black TV stations. And then spend time with the African- American community really analyzing the problems and talking to the whole community. Because we`re a very diverse community, like every other community in the country.

REID: Sure. Yes.

WATKINS: So that`s what I would suggest to Donald Trump if he`s serious. I don`t think he`s serious.

REID: Yes. And, you know, obviously Pennsylvania`s a hugely important state in November. You pastor a church, you are a Republican, you are African-American. Has there been any outreach to you from the Trump campaign, for instance, for him to come and speak at your church?

WATKINS: No, no, there hasn`t been. And to my knowledge, I don`t know that there are any boots on the ground, so to speak. I mean, if you`re serious about winning a campaign, especially in a key battleground state like Pennsylvania, you`ve got to have an office and people and staff members and folks who are making phone calls and who are reaching out to folks and saying here`s what the message is, here`s what we`re trying to accomplish, here`s why we`d like you to join us. I haven`t seen any of that. Now maybe I`m alone in that regard.

REID: Mm-hmm.

WATKINS: But I haven`t seen any of that, certainly on Pennsylvania --

REID: Yes.

WATKINS: -- and not in a lot of other states as well.

REID: Very quickly, Deborah, what do you make of that? I mean, do you think that the Trump campaign has done any real outreach in the community beyond telling black people, I guess, how bad off our communities are?

WILLIAMS: Yes, there has been outreach. And I`m sorry that Reverend Watkins doesn`t know about the outreach. I will talk to someone about that. Renee Amoore, our deputy chair, is doing outreach. Ryan Sanders --

REID: Well, we don`t --

WILLIAMS: Some of the people who were at the meeting today are instrumental --

WATKINS: They don`t work for Donald Trump.

WILLIAMS: -- in the outreach and --

WATKINS: Those are people that work for the state committee.

WILLIAMS: Excuse me.

WATKINS: They work for the State Republican Party. They don`t work for Donald Trump.

WILLIAMS: I didn`t talk at all when you were talking. I didn`t say anything at all.

REID: Well, one thing I will say is that naming people that -- the audience that`s listening to this is not going to know any of those people, just to be frank. So, I mean, the reality is Donald Trump could have spoken to names that African-Americans do know, like the NAACP, like the Urban League. As we leave this segment --

WILLIAMS: I agree.

REID: -- today, do you think he should have done that? You agree?

WILLIAMS: I agree that he should speak with all of the groups.

REID: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I do.

REID: Sure. OK, well, on that point of agreement, I really appreciate you being here. Thank you so much Reverend Joe Watkins and Deborah Williams. Thanks to you both. All right. Thank you.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

REID: And joining me now is MSNBC national reporter Trymaine Lee. All right, Trymaine, you are in Detroit where tomorrow`s outreach effort -- what`s being billed as an outreach effort -- is going to take place. Do you know at this point, at 8:12 pm Eastern Time whether Donald Trump is or is not going to speak at that church in Detroit?

TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC ANCHOR: At this point, it`s so unclear. As you mentioned earlier, Yamiche had done some really great reporting around this getting the legal documents, getting the back and forth, which really is kind of the theatrics that at least here on the ground are adding to the skepticism that so many people have about Donald Trump`s outreach efforts. You know, I`ve been talking to people for the last few days who say, you know, Donald Trump can go city to city in front of thousands of white people and talk about black unemployment and black violence and how the youth are unemployed. Basically to them translating that your communities are no good and you`re no good. Yet when it comes to speaking to black folks in a black city -- Detroit perhaps the blackest of America`s cities - - that he can`t, you know, pull together to really engage with black people. So to your point, there seems to be so much in the air, yet it seems par for the course in terms of how Donald Trump has engaged with black people. I spent some time in a little coffee shop called The Motor City Cafe. And you walk in and you go in the back and there`s beautiful murals. A husband and wife purchased blocks and blocks of abandoned and vacant homes, you know, gutted them and allowed it to be an art space. And so I`m sitting back there with a bunch of young people who are voters. And they said, you know, Donald Trump doesn`t see this vibrance. He doesn`t see that our families, sometimes they are struggling, but in so many ways we are thriving. I wanted to play this one clip from my interview. Let`s take a listen right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he`s trying to play on our insecurities and that`s my problem. You`re basically telling us we`re hopeless without you, but we`ve been hearing that. We`ve always been hearing that we need some white savior to come save us when we`re capable of doing that ourselves. Why can`t you acknowledge that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: That`s when you hear Donald Trump`s rhetoric that I`ll make it so good, you won`t believe it, I`ll make your head spin, your communities will be safe, everyone will be employed. But when you come to the ground and speak to young people in particular who are at once idealistic, but they see exactly what`s going on. There`s so much hope. But yet when they hear Donald Trump talk about how great he`s going to make the communities and how he`s going to address their needs, they haven`t heard how. And like that Ralph Ellison quote in Invisible Man, "I`m invisible because they refuse to see me." So many of these people in this community feel that Donald Trump so far at least has refused to see them beyond, you know, pathologies and social ills.

REID: Yes. Well, we will definitely be watching tomorrow. I think one of the key sort of optical questions is whether or not there are protests, how big those are, whether or not Donald Trump goes in that front door. We haven`t seen him actually traverse through a black community. We haven`t actually seen what that looks like. So that will be very interesting and we will talk to you about that very soon. Trymaine Lee, thank you very much for your time. Really appreciate it.

LEE: Thank you.

REID: All right. And still to come, bombshell reporting on ousted FOX News chairman Roger Ailes, and alleged recordings with his meetings with a former FOX host. Gabe Sherman joins me to talk about the revelations in his latest piece and about he knows about how much Roger Ailes is advising Donald Trump. But first, that moment from last night that we must talk about. We`ll discuss right after this two-minute break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTIERREZ: My culture is a very dominant culture, and it`s imposing and it`s causing problems. If you don`t do something about it, you`re going to have taco trucks at every corner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: Every now and then, cable news delivers a truly jaw-dropping moment, and that`s exactly what happened on this show last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTIERREZ: We need to understand that this is a different time and we`re having problems here.

REID: What problems?

GUTIERREZ: We need to reform --

REID: What problems are you talking about?

GUTIERREZ: My culture is a very dominant culture. And it`s imposing and it`s causing problems. If you don`t do something about it, you`re going to have taco trucks at every corner. And you --

REID: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I`m sorry. Hold on a second. I have to let Adriano in here.

ESPAILLAT: I don`t know what --

REID: I don`t even know what that means and I`m almost afraid to ask.

ESPAILLAT: I`m offended.

GUTIERREZ: I`ll tell you what --

ESPAILLAT: Our culture says --

GUTIERREZ: -- that means. The Spanish never conquered Mexico. We are a culture that -- we have a lot of good things --

REID: Are you --

GUTIERREZ: -- that we bring to the United States, but we also have problems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: So that was the founder of Latinos for Trump, Marco Gutierrez. And the reactions to that comment were swift and wide. It was the number one trending topic on Twitter for hours with many commenters agreeing with Hillary Clinton`s press secretary who wrote that their team is fired up for taco trucks on every corner. Washington Post even looked into the economic implications of a taco truck at every single intersection in America and discovered that if you assume that three people work at each truck, that`s 9.6 million new jobs created. Now on it`s face, the threat of a taco truck on every corner sounds rather benign, and also delicious. But there is something quite serious about what Gutierrez said, a kind of racial fear mongering that warned that the American way of life is being threatened by Mexican culture and that fear of others, other races, religions, and cultures is something Donald Trump has been stirring up throughout his campaign. But perhaps what makes Gutierrez`s comment so astonishing --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This is a country where we speak English, not Spanish. Look, there`s something going on -- the Muslims -- and there`s something going on, OK. We have Hillary wants to bring people in. As to whether they assimilate or not, you make the decision. But assimilation has not been exactly a positive factor. We also have to be honest about the fact that not everyone who seeks to join our country will be able to successfully assimilate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: But perhaps what makes Gutierrez`s comment so astonishing is that by hand wringing about Mexican culture, he`s disparaging his own culture. And it turns out, last night wasn`t the first time he`s expressed that ironic and self-loathing statement. Here`s what Gutierrez sounded like before he came on the show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTIERREZ: This is what I think about Hispanics, because I am one. Our culture is a very dominant culture. If you guys -- us Americans -- don`t do something about this -- ask Hispanics. We`re taking over. I have six kids, guys. Let`s be honest. Let`s be frank here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Joining me now is Jacob Monty, a Houston immigration lawyer who just resigned from Trump`s Hispanic Advisory Council, and Maria Teresa Kumar who is president and CEO of the media group Voto Latino and an MSNBC contributor. Thank you both for being here. And Maria Teresa, I have to come to you first. When you hear -- you know, when we first heard the comments, I think everybody was sort of shocked when he sort of said the taco truck comment and people sort of made fun of it. But then we went back and heard this 16-minute rant that he gave -- and we just played a little clip of it -- before he even came on the air, in which he talked about himself having six kids and essentially disparaging Mexicans as poised to take over the country by having lots of children if they are not stopped. When you hear something like that, what do you make of that coming from somebody who is himself Mexican-American?

MARIA TERESA KUMAR, VOTO LATINO, CEO: I`ve always said that when people say that there`s going to be 10 to 12 percent of Latinos that are going to vote for Trump, I always talk basically he -- Gutierrez is the embodiment of that. There`s always those contrarians. Not much that you can do about it. What`s frightening, though, is that he`s feeding directly into Donald Trump`s talking points of what -- basically his whole thing of make America great again. And I don`t believe that the fact that you have more Latinos and you have more Asians and diversity that that`s what`s making America bad. If anything, that`s what enhances us. That is actually our DNA. That is who we are as a country and he is the antithesis of that. What I was concerned with, though, as well, is the fact that he just didn`t seem to know his history. The fact that he said that the Spaniards never conquered Latin America. I think you need to have a conversation with a lot of Latin Americans because that is not the case.

REID: Yes.

KUMAR: So he was not only incredibly confusing, but I am constantly trying to make a point that the idea that we have immigration here in this country is something that is positive that it actually brings to light opportunity for this country, increasingly in a globalized world. He did it so simply when he said the worst-case scenario is that there`s going to be a taco truck on every corner.

REID: Yes. I mean, he might want to look up the meaning of the term Hispanic.

KUMAR: Right?

REID: Because that implies that Spain had something to do with what`s going on in that --

KUMAR: Just a little.

REID: -- part of the world. So, Mr. Monty, you know, you were, up until a very short time ago, on Donald Trump`s advisory committee. You have been very forthright in saying that when you met with him it was in good faith hoping that he would, you know, moderate his position on immigration. When you hear somebody who is a member of the Latino community joining Donald Trump in disparaging people of Mexican descent, are you concerned that that actually feeds a part of the Republican base that is quite happy with Donald Trump re-hardening on things like immigration?

MONTY: Look, I don`t know Marco. I don`t want to know him. I mean, but I`m not going to -- is this a joke? I mean, I`m here to talk about immigration. I assumed it was a joke. But, I mean, I don`t know if that was serious, is he affiliated with the campaign? To me, it`s not anything funny to laugh at. You know, we have a serious problem in America. I thought Donald Trump was going to tackle this problem. I am very disappointed and saddened that, you know, it was all a sham and there is no immigration plan.

REID: Well, what is this --

MONTY: So I hear you --

REID: Mm-hmm.

MONTY: -- and I know it`s popular on social media, but I don`t think it`s funny. I mean, it`s a sad day in America. We don`t have an immigration plan by our major candidate and, you know, it`s not funny to me. I think if that was a joke, I`m not laughing. Before the presentation, before the speech, Donald Trump said that he was going to have fun in Phoenix. I mean, I didn`t hear anything funny at that speech in Phoenix. And I`m --

KUMAR: I don`t think anybody`s laughing at the speech in Phoenix, Jacob. If anything, listening to that as an American was incredibly chilling. The words that he was using was incredibly chilling. The fact that he was basically going to racial profile and create another class of Americans was incredibly chilling. What was funny was the fact that this person that says he`s Latinos for Trump was not only self-loathing, but that he was trying to say that his worst-case scenario was the idea of having a taco truck. it`s a recognition that even the folks that are supposed to be backing Donald Trump don`t even have a real understanding or a grounding in policy. And that`s nobody`s fault except the Trump campaign identifying him as a surrogate.

REID: Well, let me ask you this question, Mr. Monty. Because you have research on the table. A public relation research institute did an extensive survey in which they really profiled who the Trump voter is. And part of what they found in what they call this nostalgia voter trend is a real sense of being bothered. Sixty-four percent of Trump`s supporters at that time says they were bothered by immigrants who speak little or no English. They expressed an antipathy to the idea that you could have a dual language citizen of the United States. So at the root of at least some of Trump support is a sense of xenophobia, and it`s a sense that people like you, people like Maria Teresa are the problem and that you need less immigrants who look like you or like me in this country. You signed onto this campaign at a time when, at least to your words, you thought Donald Trump would change his mind about that. But aren`t you concerned that he`s attracting people who think like that?

MONTY: Look, I signed on with the campaign. There were a lot of other recognized leaders that signed on. We don`t have faith in Hillary Clinton. We saw him as a way to get immigration reformed and improve the lot of Hispanics, and I don`t apologize for that. I don`t apologize for sitting down with him and thinking that he could deliver on immigration reform because immigration reform has to come from Congress. I don`t know who this guys is. He wasn`t in the meeting. I don`t know -- I didn`t know about him until I saw him --

REID: Yes.

MONTY: -- last night.

REID: Yes.

MONTY: And I honestly thought it was a joke. And if the campaign actually empowered him to talk for them, that`s sad and we should be outraged --

REID: Right.

MONTY: -- by it. I haven`t seen anything as to if he`s a surrogate, but it`s --

REID: We should point out that he is not an official surrogate or part of the campaign. He actually created Latinos for Trump himself, so he is a self-selected supporter of Donald Trump. So yes, I think that`s a very important point. We should make sure we make that. Jacob Monty and Maria Teresa Kumar, thank you both for joining us. Appreciate it.

MONTY: Thank you.

KUMAR: Thank you, Joy.

REID: And still to come, Donald Trump`s latest line of attack against Hillary Clinton that it seems that he himself is guilty of. That story ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUMP: It`s hard to tell where the Clinton Foundation ends and where the State Department begins. Access and favors were sold for cash. It`s called pay for play.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Over the last several weeks, the Trump campaign has repeatedly portrayed the Clinton Foundation as a pay for play front, alleging that the Clintons solicited donations for their charitable organizations and in return granted government access and favors, even though there`s no actual proof that any official favors, regulations, government contracts, international deals, that anything, in fact, was traded for donations or pledges to the Clinton`s global charity. Nevertheless, the attack is a big hit for Trump and his surrogates out on the campaign trail. Despite the fact that Trump himself gave money to the Foundation and has acknowledged that he, before he ran for president, often donated money expecting something in return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Our system is broken. I gave to many people. Before this, before two months ago, I was a businessman. I give to everybody. When they call, I give. And you know what, when I need something from them, two years later, three years later, I call them, they are there for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Well, we may have found a real-life example of pay for play in Trump world, and the details of that are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL: I have devoted my life as a prosecutor to public safety, to keeping our communities safe, our families safe, our kids safe. And when it comes to law and order, I think you all know by now, nobody`s going to bully me. I don`t mess around, and neither does Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: One of Donald Trump`s biggest high profile supporters is Florida attorney general Pam Bondi.

Back in March, ahead of the Florida primary, Bondi endorsed Trump over Florida Senator Marco Rubio, noting to the crowd that she and Trump had, quote, "been friends for many years."

She`s been out on the campaign trail with him. Her name was floated as a possible Trump runningmate. She was one of a few elected officials to give a primetime speech at this summer`s Republican National Convention.

So needless to say, more than a few eyebrows were raised when it was reported in June that Bondi personally solicited a political contribution from Donald Trump around the same time her office deliberated joining an investigation of alleged fraud of Trump University and its affiliates.

The Donald J. Trump Foundation, a registered non-profit, ended up giving $25,000 to Bondi`s political committee while Bondi was pursuing a re- election bid in 2013.

Soon after, Bondi announced she would not pursue the case against Trump University.

And the plot thickens. Now The Washington Post is reporting that Donald Trump paid the IRS $2,500 penalty this year, after it was revealed that Trump`s charitable foundation had violated tax laws by giving a political contribution to a campaign group connected to Florida`s attorney general.

And joining me now is the reporter behind that story, David Fahrenthold of The Washington Post.

All right, David, so walk us through this. Donald Trump winds up -- or his foundation winds up giving this donation to Pam Bondi`s political action committee. Can you sort that out for us?

DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, WASHINGTON POST: It`s very confusing. So, as you said, Pam Bondi solicits a donation from Donald Trump when she`s considering whether or not to investigate Trump University. Trump pays that donation, $25,000 out of the Donald J. Trump Foundation, which is an odd entity. It`s a charity. It`s very small. It contains almost no money from Donald J. Trump himself. People you might think that does, but it doesn`t. Trump pays that money out of the foundation, which it`s not allowed to do. Foundations can`t make political gifts. And then when he reports that year`s activity to the IRS, he actually leaves off the prohibited donation and instead sends the IRS a listing of a false, non-existent donation to a group with a similar sounding name, which has the effect of covering up the illegal donation.

REID: So, essentially there`s this Kansas charity that has a name similar to the Donald J. Trump Foundation. They say that is who gave the money to Pam Bondi?

FAHRENTHOLD: Yes.

So, Pam Bondi`s group is called And Justice for All, the political group. They get the money. When Trump`s accountants send that year`s tax filings to the IRS, instead of listing that donation, which the IRS would have noted was not allowed, they sent -- they told them they had given $25,000 to a group in Kansas called Justice for All, almost the same name. That group got no money from Trump.

But the IRS was none the wiser and as a result, the illegal contribution didn`t show up on the IRS`s radar until this year.

REID: And you know, there are so many strange things that are strange about it, but one of them is if somebody calls and asks Donald Trump -- you know, we just quoted him saying he`s a very rich man. He loves to tell people how rich he is. If somebody is asking him for a campaign contribution, Donald Trump himself could simply write them a check if he wanted to donate to them.

Does it strike you as -- what does it tell you that he would then have a foundation, which isn`t even allowed to do it, write the check instead of him himself?

FAHRENTHOLD: Well, there`s something really interesting here. I have been spending this year trying to find evidence that Donald Trump gives money out of his own pocket to charities, which he says he does. And this whole episode tells you something interesting about the way Trump`s organization runs.

Now what they -- how they explain this is, this order to write a check to And Justice for All, comes down to Trumpo`s accounts payable clerks. And they pay all the checks for Trump personally, Trump`s foundation, Trump`s business, it all comes out of the same office. And their instruction is to look in a book -- and they have a book that contains the name of every charity in the United States, look in that book and see if the payee of this check if they`re about to write, if that name is in the book of charities. And if it is, it has to come out of the Trump Foundation.

And so what they`re saying is that this clerk looks in this book, sees another group, a group in Utah that has the same name as the group in Florida, this political group, they assume it`s a charity, then by rule, they send out a check from the Donald Trump Foundation.

So Trump had set up a system where charity donations can only be paid out of the Trump Foundation, and that`s why this first mistake leads them to send a foundation check to a political group.

REID: And the other thing you had been doing, you tweeted out that you took a picture, right, of any suggestions -- essentially trying to find out if Donald Trump has ever actually given to any of the groups that he says he`s given money to, that includes the Police Athletic League of New York City and $5,000 that claims that he gave them.

Have you been able to find out, after calling 313 charities, whether Donald Trump has ever given his money away when he says he does?

FAHRENTHOLD: Well, I`ve looked back to 2008, which is the last time -- Trump has this foundation, the Donald J. Trump Foundation, he last gave it his own money in 2008. In the eight years since then, I found exactly one donation out of Trump`s own pocket. Now he says he gives millions out of his own pocket all the time. I can only find evidence in that search, which has now covered 313 charities, I can find evidence of one gift, that was in 2009, and it was for less than $10,000.

In that span, that`s the only one I can find coming out of Trump`s own pocket.

REID; yeah. And I love that you actually tweeted the list so people can see you crossing off -- nope, didn`t give -- nope didn`t, nope didn`t.

Very interesting. Great reporting. David Fahrenthold, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

And still ahead, my interview with New York Magazine`s Gabe Sherman about his explosive new article on the demise of Fox news chairman Roger Ailes, or the media demise. But first tonight`s Thing One and Thing Two on that tweet that sparked an international dispute after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So just ask yourself, do you really think Donald Trump has the temperament to be commander-in- chief? A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Thing One tonight, Donald Trump`s disposition has been a cause for concern throughout the election. But even Clinton`s remarks were surely meant to be a rhetorical flourish, right?

Well, as it turns out, Donald Trump was literally baited into an international food fight by a tweet. And as a result he changed part of the most anticipated speech of his candidacy. What that was is Thing Two in just 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: So how was the Republican nominee literally baited by a tweet? It started when Donald Trump traveled to Mexico City on Wednesday to meet with President Enrique Pena Nieto. They held a relatively uneventful joint appearance afterwards until Trump was asked if payment for his border wall had come up in conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We didn`t discuss that. We didn`t discuss -- who pays for the wall, we didn`t discuss.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: It seemed like a bizarre turn for the candidate who has made Mexico paying for a wall into a rallying cry. But then we found out that the wall payment did come up when Pena Nieto himself tweeted out, "at the beginning of the conversation with Donald Trump, I made it clear that Mexico will not pay are for the wall."

Later that same day, Donald Trump took to the stage to deliver his big immigration speech, and this time, he made a point of demanding payment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We will build a great wall along the southern border and Mexico will pay for the wall, 100 percent. They don`t know it yet, but they`re going to pay for the wall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: So where did Donald Trump find his gumption to shove the cost of the wall back in Mexico`s face?

The Wall Street Journal had the answer today in an article titled, "Donald Trump revised immigration speech after Mexican leader`s tweet."

According to the article Trump was already, quote, peeved that Pena Nieto even brought up the cost of the wall in the meeting. It was apparently meant to be off the table, and then tweeting about it made things worse.

So, as the Wall Street Journal reports, even though Trump`s widely anticipated immigration speech that night originally omitted the usual line that Mexico would have to pay. After seeing the tweet, he hurriedly inserted a new sentence in his immigration speech that the wall would be paid for by Mexico. Adding, they don`t know it yet, but they`re going to pay for the wall.

The candidate saying, and I quote, I had no choice.

Thus proving Hillary Clinton right, Donald Trump can be baited with a tweet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: The much anticipated first presidential debate is now just 24 days away. Slated for September 26th at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York. And the non-partisan Commission on Presidential Debates today announced that our very own Lester Holt, anchor of NBC Nightly News, will moderate it. Congratulations, Lester.

CNN`s Anderson Cooper and ABC`s Martha Raddatz will moderate the second presidential debate. And Fox News Sunday Anchor Chris Wallace will moderate the third and final presidential debate. CBS news Elaine Quijano will moderate the vice presidential debate.

Now it`s probably safe to say that no modern presidential debate has garnered such anticipation than the Clinton/Trump face-off. And any moderator will have their work cut out for them since trump has proven to be so, well, unconventional.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And honestly, Megyn, if you don`t like it, I`m sorry. I`ve been very nice to you, although I could probably maybe not be based on the way you have treated me.

Everybody said it was going to be three hours, three and a half, including them, and in about two minutes, I renegotiated it down to two hours so we can get the hell out of here.

Two days ago, he said he would take his pants off and moon everybody and that`s fine. Nobody reports that. He gets up and says that, and then he tells me, oh, my language was a little bit rough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: The Clinton campaign today released a statement which reads in part, "Hillary Clinton is looking forward to participating in the debates as she believes they are an important proving ground for anyone seeking to be commander-in-chief, especially given that Fox has been selected to moderate a debate for the first time ever. It`s time for Donald Trump to end his debate shenanigans and formally agree to debate."

There`s been no formal response to the debate line-up from the Trump campaign. When we come back, the latest bombshell on the man who is reportedly helping Donald Trump in his debate prep, former Fox News chief Roger Ailes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: With the first presidential debate approaching, there are more reports about how the candidates are preparing. The Washington Post recently reported that while Hillary Clinton is methodically preparing, Donald Trump is taking a different approach. He summons his informal band of counselors, including former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, talk show host -- talk radio host Laura Ingraham, and ousted Fox News Channel chairman Roger Ailes to his New Jersey golf course for Sunday chats.

That follows a New York Times report that Ailes was advising Trump, which the Trump campaign denied. Though Trump himself told The Times, I`ll speak with Roger, but this is not a formal thing. I don`t have a debate coach. I`ve never had a debate coach.

We reached out to Roger Ailes through his lawyer for a comment about these reports, but have yet to receive a reply.

Ailes stepped down as Fox News CEO following a lawsuit filed by former Fox News anchor Gretchen Carlson, which alleged sexual harassment by Ailes and after Fox News asked a New York law firm to conduct an independent investigation.

Additional female employees of Fox News allege sexual harassment by Ailes during that investigation, according to the New York Times magazine`s Gabriel Sherman who will join us in a moment.

Ailes has, through legal counsel, denied all allegations of sexual harassment, but now Sherman has taken a close look into what led to the Carlson lawsuit. Carlson settled on a simple strategy. Beginning in 2014, according to a person familiar with the lawsuit, Carlson brought her iPhone to meetings in Ailes office and secretly recorded him saying the kinds of things he`d been saying to her all along.

And joining me now is, Gabe Sherman, national affairs editor for New York Magazine, where his new piece is the cover story.

So, Gabe, on these recordings, which is the big bombshell, and it really deeply reported in a really lengthy piece, have you heard these recordings?

GABE SHERMAN, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: No, I have not. But they were used in the negotiations Gretchen Carlson scheduled to settle with the parent company of Fox news for what is said to be an eight-figure sum. So, clearly these audio recordings and the transcripts from these tapes were very damaging to Roger Ailes, that they were going to pay.

REID: And do you believe they were played for Roger Ailes and/or his attorneys?

SHERMAN: I`m not sure if they were played or he was shown the transcripts, but I understand they were pivotal in these negotiations.

REID: One of the other things that sort of comes through in your story is the sense that Rupert Murdoch`s sons seem to have had it in for Roger Ailes and saw this as an opportunity to lever him out.

What was the source of enmity between the Murdoch kids and -- well, they`re not kids -- but the Murdoch sons...

SHERMAN: Adult children. So, this has been a long-running feud. You know, Roger Ailes is a very polarizing executive. And as Rupert Murdoch was elevating his sons, especially his son Lochlan into being the heir apparant, this was in about the mid-2000s, Roger Ailes forced him out of the company. He maneuvered with other executives to marginalize him.

So, the Murdoch children really saw Ailes as undermining them and not respecting their rights to, you know, move into leadership positions at the company.

REID: And one of the other things that seems to have come through is according to Fox sources, Murdoch blamed Roger Ailes for laying the groundwork for Trump`s candidacy. And then in the days after Gretchen Carlson filed her lawsuit, Trump advised Roger Ailes on navigating the crisis, even recommending a lawyer to him.

SHERMAN: Yeah, this is remarkable. You know, fastward back to last summer -- rewind back to last summer, you know, Murdoch was tweeting negative things about Trump. Really they were not on board. And Fox had given Trump the platform to launch his candidacy. Roger Ailes gave him a weekly call-in segment on the morning show Fox and Friends where he could talk to 2 million loyal Republican voters every week.

So Murdoch really said, you know, Fox News had gone too far and he called Ailes at home, as I report in the piece, and said when this debate happens in Cleveland last summer I want our moderators. I want you to really put an end to this.

REID: And why do you suppose that is? Because obviously Roger Ailes, one of the other things that you point out in the piece is that one of the gifts that Roger Ailes gave to Murdoch was to extend his political influence from places like Australia and Europe to the United States.

So why the sort of enmity toward Trump?

SHERMAN: Well, really what I show in this piece is that Roger Ailes became in a certain way more powerful than Rupert Murdoch. At one point in the 2000s, Murdoch stopped being able to control Roger Ailes. And Roger Ailes used Fox to become really the right-wing megaphone that it is.

You know, when Murdoch started Fox, it was supposed to be conservative and populist, but not this paranoid conservative network that Ailes turned it into.

And so Murdoch by that point was not on the same page with Ailes, but he couldn`t tell him not to do it, because Fox News generated a $1 billion of profit. It was too successful. So Murdoch could not reign him in.

REID: And one of the things that you`ve been sort of hearing in the zeitgeist out there is that it could that Roger Ailes is teaming up with Donald Trump to sort of form a rival conservative network.

You seem to indicate here that the agreement that he signed in his separation agreement would make that difficult?

SHERMAN: Yes, that will be difficult.

The lawyers were very insistent that he has a non-compete clause in his contract. Now, he could always try to violate that and then they could sue him to stop doing it.

But it would be very difficult for him to jump into running Trump TV if that`s what ended up happening.

REID: Well, let`s get back to the core allegation here. How many women are we talking about are alleging that Roger Ailes harassed them sexually over the course of what seems like many years?

SHERMAN: Yeah, so I`ve interviewed 18 women who allege harassment over a 30-40 time period. But 25 women that I understand came forward to the law firm hired by the Murdochs to investigate Roger Ailes.

So, I`ve interviewed 18. And we know at least 25 have come forward to the law firm, which suggest that there are many more out there.

So these are really shocking allegations.

REID: And Gretchen Carlson getting around these sort of -- not being able to sue Fox News by suing him personally.

SHERMAN: Fascinating legal strategy. They really sprung this trap for Ailes by suing him personally, taking him by surprise and driving a wedge between him and the company.

REID: And do you know whether a Roger Ailes is in fact advising Donald Trump on the debates?

SHERMAN: Yes, I do know that from Trump`s sources that he`s in talks with him. I confirmed the New York Times report that he was in Bedminister, New Jersey, at the golf club. So, yes, these are accurate reports.

REID: And do what about on things like his immigration policy, that speech, do you see the fingerprints of Roger Ailes?

SHERMAN: Yes, I`ve heard from Trump sources that Ailes has been pushing Trump to modulate, to try to repackage himself. Ailes is a master packager. So, he`s trying to take Trump`s right-wing immigration position and try to re-spin it for a moderate audience.

REID: But, but we do also remember the Willy Horton sort of era and that kind of vibe was in that speech.

SHERMAN: Exactly. Yeah.

REID: Absolutely. Well, Gabe Sherman, thank you very much. Great reporting. Really appreciate it.

All right, well that is All In for this evening.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END